The “President to doom gun control” Sunday open thread.


President Obama’s going to be starting a push for “gun control” next month, sayeth insiders – which is a statement that would worry me more if the President hasn’t been a bit of a jinx at using the bully pulpit up to this point.  I’m trying – and failing – to come up with something where his “assistance” has been a net positive: all of the Democrats’ dubious legislative successes have been on the Congressional level thus far, and when it comes to skill at advocacy Obama, well… is awful. One wonders what the man hopes to accomplish.

And no, I don’t know what the heck “gun control” has to do with the economy, either.

We haven’t had one in a while, so… open thread.

Moe Lane (crosspost)


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This is complicated for some!

altexas Sunday, January 30th at 5:03PM EDT (link)

We already have ‘gun control.’ Some on the left may need many days and some lawyers to explain it so for them, don’t, “read the bill.”

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

I am good with that.

 

I Wouldn't Be Surprised...

snowsoul Sunday, January 30th at 5:07PM EDT (link)

If some people pushing for this are invested in the gun industry. The same way Obama lines the pockets of unions through bailouts, George Soros through backing loans to petrobrazil, or whatever it’s called, that’s drilling off of Brazil’s coast, there’s probably some democrats who know this’ll boost their returns and this is just a favor Obama is giving to them.

 

I heard this news last week

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:10PM EDT (link)

and bought Ruger and Smith and Wesson stock. It is just like buying oil during the turmoil in Egypt. It is unfortunate one has to try to protect money based on negatives, but all this administration serves up is negatives.

My expectation is another short run of gun buying out of Obama fear. Too bad there is no pure play stock I know for ammunition. ATK makes lots of civilian ammunition but that is just a portion of their business. I also expect and DEMAND no Clinton Gun Ban Part Deux ever reaches the floor of the House.

disclaimer# I could easily be wrong about these stocks, Ruger is the better run company btw. This is just a trade and it could go wrong, just like my oil bets. I am not offering any stock advice here and I could be out of these stocks at any time.

Molon Labe!

SWHC

Duke Sunday, January 30th at 8:56PM EDT (link)

Looks like Smith took a dump just before 2008. I wonder if that’s when the cops all started going to Glocks.

Considering some of S&W’s “police use only” type of gun control attitudes in the past, I really can’t feel too sorry for their decline while Ruger has been making some pretty good financial moves, like buying back about $10 million of their outstanding shares.

It’s not about a purge. It’s about an insurrection.

Smith is just poorly run

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 9:12PM EDT (link)

They still corner the J frame revolver market and they are selling a ton of M&P’s to police agencies. It is quite possible they are charging less than Glock to get the business, but the gun is a success.

You are right about Smith backstabbing Americans going along with Clinton on “smart guns” trigger locks, etc. But the company has changed hands now and is putting out some good stuff. They don’t mark their standard AR15s LE only like Colt does. Having said the above, I repeat the company has poor management that has disappointed Wall Street many times.

Ruger is really going gangbusters, yet the stock is not cheap. In fact Ruger used to be kind of gun controlly under the founder Bill Ruger. They mainly sold revolvers and did not make pocket guns or AR’s. That has all changed and they are making inroads in all the gun sectors. And the management is simply better and running a business.

Molon Labe!

Smart Guns

edintexas Monday, January 31st at 8:37AM EDT (link)

IIRC, it was Colt which was hyping the idea of “smart guns”. They had some VP “show” a prototype on some TV program. Of course all he could do was show a pistol and talk about how it “would” work, once the problem of reliability and recoil survival of the mechanism was worked out.

From 1964 to 1987 several different conglomerates (IIRC Bangor Punta was one) owned the company. In 1987 it was bought by a British firm (Tompkins), which is the management which signed the deal with Clinton. In 2001 Tomkins took the loss, in large part caused by the boycott of gunowners over the deal with the Clinton Administration, and sold to the Safe-T-Hammer (SP?) corp. The new management dumped the agreement and S&W sales have at least somewhat revived under the new management.

 
 
 
 

We will see if smart democrats run for the hills

PrecinctPatriot (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:12PM EDT (link)

The last time they pushed a gun control package through didn’t turn out so well in 1994. http://www.clintongunban.com/welcome.aspx

“The American people eventually learned the truth, and it was not surprising then that pro-ban votes cost—by Bill Clinton’s count—at least 20 Democrats their seats in the next election. Nor was is surprising that less than two years after its passage, the House of Representatives voted 239 to 173 to repeal the Clinton gun ban.”

Who is John Galt?

http://thefloridaprecinctproject.wordpress.com/

 

How many facts do you have to give a liberal before they will adimit that they are wrong.

earlgrey (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:14PM EDT (link)

Thanks to contributers at Red State for helping me in my education. As it is an ongoing thing. I haven’t converted anyone yet, hence the question, but at least I know what I am talking about (sometimes).

Happy Sunday.

You can go to infinity and beyond

Lammo (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:11AM EDT (link)

with indisputable facts but it still won’t work. “Guns are evil” is the only position their ideology will allow. The only way they get it is to cease to be liberal.

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)

 
 

The President isn't going to do anything about gun control other than flapping his TelePrompTer and signing something......

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:17PM EDT (link)

……something that would be completely unconstitutional at minimum and a solid incitement to ‘it’ if the left gets their way.

It’ll be Sunstein doing all the legwork. Cass The Nudger Sunstein and his merry band of Totalitarian Czars.

They already tried it through The EPA with lead, but The EPA – their own leftist people – said they don’t have the authority to do it.

They may try to do it the same way it’s being done in Switzerland. Yes, Switzerland is in the process of disarming it’s citizens. There’s way too many links to list, but you can start with one from 2007.

Then consider the following: The Swiss Parliament and ministerial cabinet highly recommend Swiss citizens rejection of proposed measures to disarm the public AND military personnel at home.

The public vote on February 13th is to officially revise Swiss regulations concerning firearms.

The basic changes would be:
1) Cancel the existing basic right of citizens to own firearms.
2) Weapons of all military personnel will be kept in arsenals, and no longer stored at individual homes.
3) Remove all surplus arms from circulation.
4) A central registry to facilitate and control forced retrieval of all arms held by civilians.

There’s much more I can add about our own nation, but I’ll stop now, because I really don’t wish to become ‘edgy’ today.

I keep saying this and eventually, somebody with actual pull in our nation will have an enlightening moment…… Want to stop at least half the insanity going on in our nation literally overnight ?

The Office Of Information And Regulatory Affairs needs to be defunded and disbanded – and the people involved, including every single one of The Czars and their entire staffs – must be prohibited from ever serving in any governmental capacity in perpetuity – locally to nationally.

Does this include Rahmbo?

ohiohistorian (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 6:20PM EDT (link)

Does your suggestion include Rahmbo? What justification can you provide in a free society to prevent people from serving in a government capacity. They have not been tried by the courts yet.

I believe that these all are dangerous people, and should possibly be put in jail. But, if I look at Democrats such as Alcee Hastings, who was impeached as a judge, and now is in Congress, I don’t think you have a chance to get any traction.

““Liberals tend to put the onus of your success on society and conservatives on you and your family.”

Dennis Prager

Yes, it would include Rahmbo, and Hastings, and Pelosi, and

davesinsanantonio (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 5:32AM EDT (link)

all the others who would do this country harm.

But, we don’t do it by government decree, we do it by voter education.

 
 
 

How This Help Him?

mousestalker (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:29PM EDT (link)

Admittedly the netroots will be in favor, but the center won’t. Gun owners span the range from center to right with some left outliers. The main thing is that gun owners tend to be very sensitive about gun rights.

The Dems did well in 2008 because they carefully avoided the entire issue. They took a beating in 2010, but there is some reason on their part to think they won’t do as badly the next go ’round.

Pushing a gun control bill of any sort will motivate voters who likely wouldn’t vote otherwise to head for the polls.

Not to mention, with Republican control of the House and lots of Democrat senators up for re-election, the likelihood of anything passing approaches nil. So why put forth the effort?

Actually, why hasn’t the Obama administration pulled a Clinton and focused exclusively on the economy? Are they that incapable of doing a 180?

Shhhhhhhh

bannedtroll Sunday, January 30th at 10:18PM EDT (link)

This is probably one of the dumbest things he can do politically, so let’s hope he follows through. My only fear is that he proposes something so small and modest that he gets some R-cover, inoculating himself from campaign attacks, checks the bipartisan check box and makes his base happy. Still, it’s hard for me to imagine anything getting through the House, and at a time where he’s hemorrhaging Independent voters, there’s no way this can help him.

I’m a banned Democrat who came here to promote the idea that Republicans are racists for disliking Barack Obama.

 
 

gunshow shows guns

edwyrd (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 5:40PM EDT (link)

went to a gun show saturday. guns everywhere!
i asked the lady collecting the $7 admission charge, “ain’t you worried about getting robbed?” she looked around at the thousands of guns, the tons (literally) of ammo, and responded, “are you nuts?!”

gun control is a losers bet!!!

“but men are different, they propound mathmatical theorms in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, discuss the last new poem while advancing to the walls of quebec and comb their hair at thermopylae. it is our nature!
—C.S Lewis, weight of glory

 

Control

Spikehb Sunday, January 30th at 5:44PM EDT (link)

Obama and other leftists are just keeping with “never let a crisis go to waste”. This will put the “yellow stains” in agreement with the idealists and those who want to control the masses. Guns, internet & speech are all under attack.

This time because Gifford is a congress-critter, we will have elitist Republicans like Peter King, who is more than happy to “protect his hide” by controlling your rights, to deal with. With his type and the expected “more equal pigs” like congressman James Clyburn, we might have a serious fight on our hands. These people are not shy about admitting they are better that the rest of us.

 

If GOD has a sense of humor

rick554 Sunday, January 30th at 5:54PM EDT (link)

My lefty UPS guy will deliver my next shipment of ammo the day AFTER the ONE announces this “Initiative” lol

Rick554

 

So, "focused like a laser"

bushhog Sunday, January 30th at 6:04PM EDT (link)

refers to laser sights, not the support of an economy that will create jobs! The next two years will seem like eternity!

 

I hope #bh0 pushes for "gun contro" really HARD

TXCHLInstructor Sunday, January 30th at 6:04PM EDT (link)

The best ever months I had in my concealed handgun license classes where November through January after the empty suit got elected. If this rumor is for real, I need to get some extra classes scheduled ASAP.

Fortunately for this country, #bh0 is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.


Does the 2nd Amendment actually mean what it says, or should we just scrap the whole document? (www.chl-tx.com)

 

Whatever he says, or 'they' say...

bobmontgomery (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 6:06PM EDT (link)

…it doesn’t matter what ‘we’ say about’ them’. They are going to do what they are going to do We’ve got to start saying nasty things about Republicans who would deign to entertain any of this garbage, like Representative Peter King, Republican-NY. We’ve got to start saying things like “So, Representative King, you think the citizens of this country ought to be disarmed anytime you come within five city blocks of them? Who do you think you are, Representative King?”
A good example of the opening lines of a speech announcing a candidacy for President of the United States would be “American citizens will NOT be disarmed, and they will NOT be silenced.”
.

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

whew, finally a private sector jobs program from Obama...for

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 9:47PM EDT (link)

trigger lock manufacturers

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

GC, I think you are a happy warrior :-) nt.

bobmontgomery (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 11:01PM EDT (link)

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

thx bob', that makes my day - now back to CNN to

Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 11:16PM EDT (link)

ruin my night!

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson

 
 
 
 

I quit saying things would not happen in my lifetime

PowerToThePeople (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 6:16PM EDT (link)

the moment Obama passed the HC crap. No matter what he intends as far as his gun control push, we need to make sure we are ready to fight for our lives should he move to make gun control his final battle flag. If he feels he is on his way out, he very well may try to push some serious unconstitutional junk just to leave a very progressive legacy.

Going to go out tomorrow and buy the Ruger P90 matching .45′s I have had my eye on just in celebration of my own gun control initiative.

i've been looking at a glock 19

edwyrd (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 6:46PM EDT (link)

but i cant hit s–t with a glock. any suggestions? i mean besides get glasses.

“but men are different, they propound mathmatical theorms in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, discuss the last new poem while advancing to the walls of quebec and comb their hair at thermopylae. it is our nature!
—C.S Lewis, weight of glory

Get a 3.5 lb trigger module installed in your 19, or...

luciusacius (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 7:37PM EDT (link)

better yet get a 1911, Springfield, Kimber Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Para-Ordinance, etc., they come in all kinds of flavors and have a wonderful trigger. Maybe just some range time reqularly would do it.

Lucius Accius
“oderint dum metuant”

Lucius Has The Best Answer

edintexas Monday, January 31st at 9:18AM EDT (link)

The best answer is usually the simplest, and Lucius pointed it out. Regular range time will do the most good. At least as long as there have been no “bad habits” developed. Find an instructor for a couple of sessions. Or ask one of the competition shooters at your club or range to watch you shoot and make suggestions. The lighter trigger is very popular, and not terribly expensive either.

Years ago the standard for changing your draw of, or shooting, a handgun was 1500 repetitions to develop “muscle memory”. I wouldn’t think that has changed much (if at all). We learn to shoot well the same way the violinist gets to Carnegie Hall. Because you will be shooting a lot to get that practice, you don’t need to buy the most expensive ammunition. At handgun ranges, and I’m guessing you do not expect tuned competition pistol single hole accuracy, relatively inexpensive ammunition is generally more than accurate enough for practice. Start with 3 and 7 yard distances to build confidence and get your groups tight there, then move out to 15 and 25.

If you can’t find anyone to help you, there are plenty of resources available on the web. Here’s a link to a “target” which will help diagnose potential problems (assuming there is a pattern to shot fall): http://www.hsoi.com/resources/correction_chart.gif

 
 

I like the glocks

PowerToThePeople (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:04PM EDT (link)

as they have an aesthetic appeal and some common sense qualities, but I also have issue with accuracy with the gun due to the way it is designed.

The Rugar P90 is considered one of the most accurate for the money and its slimmer design makes it much easier to grip and fire. But one of the best .45s I own that is so sweet to shoot is the Sig. Tends to cost a little more but well worth it.

That info is for if you are planning on buying one. If you plan on buying one, just make sure you hold it, feels the weight as all guns have a different weight, feel the grip and make sure it fits well as that is very important, and then make sure you get premium ammo as the cheap stuff is not made to be super accurate and does not have the power the good stuff has.

If you already own a glock and just want to help your accuracy out, getting a lighter trigger pull will help but it also means you need to adjust the way you handle your gun since it takes less pressure to cause it to fire. But more than anything I would suggest you have a kit installed on your glock that contains a laser. It will cost you a few bucks but your accuracy will increase tenfold once you get the hang of it all. Most of the glock 45s have a kit that can be installed, just check for cost.

If your issue with accuracy comes from the weight or the kick, I would suggest you step back to a 40 cal. You will not lose that much stopping power but you will get an advantage when it comes to weight and kick. If a person does not go down with a 40, most likely they were not going down with a 45 either. I own a few 40s and enjoy them just as much.

But I still stand behind the 45 Ruger P90. My wife’s first gun was a compact 9. She like it until the day she went with me to a range where we fired a friends .Ruger P90. Since that day she has carried one and like it tremendously. Now I want one and plan on getting one in the morning. Find someone who has one or a shooting range that loans guns. Try one out and you will be sold on its accuracy and it feel just as I am.

great advice

edwyrd (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:39PM EDT (link)

additionally, those jihadis they keep catching at the mexican boarder. i would respectfully request they release them in south carolina, preferably at my front door.

“but men are different, they propound mathmatical theorms in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, discuss the last new poem while advancing to the walls of quebec and comb their hair at thermopylae. it is our nature!
—C.S Lewis, weight of glory

 

two quibbles Power to the people

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:57PM EDT (link)

Glocks have aesthetic appeal? Really? Well I guess that makes the world go ’round :) Give me a Browning Hi Power for looks.

Ok the real quibble. He said he shoots a G19, so the .40 would be a step up in power, and not the call if recoil is the issue. Of course unless he has Arthritis, up there in years, or is just a new shooter, the G19 should not be a recoil problem for most adults.

Molon Labe!

I am not familiar with the G19

PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:04AM EDT (link)

and I assumed since I had referenced a 45, he was referring to the same cal.

But you know what they say about assumptions………

no big deal power

Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:16AM EDT (link)

you were trying to help the guy and you gave some good advice.

Molon Labe!

 
 
 
 

smith and Wesson M&P

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:51PM EDT (link)

with an Apex trigger job is a good choice.

BTW, if you are serious, explain more clearly what the problem is. Is the problem really your eyes? If so, you can get Big Dot sights. Is it trigger pull? The funky Glock grip angle? Not enough practice? recoil?

Molon Labe!

the problem

edwyrd (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 9:37PM EDT (link)

shooting at bottles from aprox 50 to 75 feet is a lesson in futility. usually i’m a pretty good shot. had no problem with the 1911.

also there was a shootout not long ago not far from my house. the cops, all with glocks shot 45 times and hit the v.o.p, cop killing, illegal immigrant, a total of twice, albiet fatally.

also i am left handed and hold the gun as such.

“but men are different, they propound mathmatical theorms in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, discuss the last new poem while advancing to the walls of quebec and comb their hair at thermopylae. it is our nature!
—C.S Lewis, weight of glory

ok, that clarifies things

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 9:57PM EDT (link)

shooting outside at bottles at 75 feet is not easy for anyone, you would probably be ok in a defensive encounter because they happen at more like 10 feet. As for the Cops, statistics show they completely miss the bad guy 4 out of every five shots. This fact always makes me laugh when people on gun boards worry so much about bullet overpenetration. Heck, most rounds miss anyway!

btw, here is an interesting link I just found about gun fight statistics. http://www.virginiacops.org/articles/shooting/Combat.htm

and finally, I would stick with old slab sides, it is the 100th anniversary of the old war horse.

I am not endorsing the point shooting method the officer mentions, I am a “focus on the front site” guy, both methods have their pros and cons depending on the situation.

Molon Labe!

LEOs and Firearms

edintexas Monday, January 31st at 9:34AM EDT (link)

The sad truth is many Law Enforcement Officers shoot less frequently than the average firearms fan. Things have been improving some over the years, not too many years ago the standard for qualification was once per year. I believe many departments have gone to at least 2x per year. Better yet is the Federal standard of quarterly qualification. But still, this is often the only shooting the LEO does. He’s usually not a “gun nut” (meant in the good sense of a firearms aficionado), particularly in the larger cities.

Add the stress on to the lack of constant shooting and you have misses. And, under the stress, the instruction he/she had about counting rounds goes out the window. Many will simply fire as long as the threat is present and they still have rounds in the magazine (i.e. they will fire the entire magazine without realizing it). This leads to these huge numbers of shots fired so frequently cited in “shootouts”. We fight as we train, but only so long as we continue to have sufficient training time. And it is hard to “find” sufficient firearms training time when there are so many demands on an LEO’s time.

agreed ed inTexas

Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, February 1st at 8:48PM EDT (link)

I have met LEO’s that NEVER fire except when they must qualify. I also read from an authoritative source that a large percentage of LEO’s do not even carry when off duty. Some are actually hoplophobes, To me that is misconduct.

OTOH, I know many LEO’s who are gun guys. They love shooting, training, collecting, BS’ing, etc. Those are the guys I want to have my back if needed.

One thing you said I have to at least question or ask for clarification. You said: “Many will simply fire as long as the threat is present and they still have rounds in the magazine (i.e. they will fire the entire magazine without realizing it)

Now I know in highly specialized training like IDPA stuff, you are supposed to reload before you empty the mag so that you will always be ready for a new threat. Having said that, I think there have been more cases of police trying ingrained “double taps” and stopping while the threat is still present. A proven axiom is that you should fire until the threat is gone. As you are well aware, there is no such thing as “shooting to kill”, nor are there “warning shots” or “shooting to wound”. You shoot to stop the threat to your life or the lives of others, and you don’t stop the fight until the fight is over.

Molon Labe!

 
 
 

try a nice Ruger Blackhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel

Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 10:01PM EDT (link)

You will knock those bottles down :)

Molon Labe!

cool sight

edwyrd (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 10:29PM EDT (link)

chilling facts about shootouts

“but men are different, they propound mathmatical theorms in beleaguered cities, conduct metaphysical arguments in condemned cells, make jokes on scaffolds, discuss the last new poem while advancing to the walls of quebec and comb their hair at thermopylae. it is our nature!
—C.S Lewis, weight of glory

 
 
 
 
 
 

He doesn't need Congress ...

pastisprolog Sunday, January 30th at 6:17PM EDT (link)

… and he doesn’t need us. Using Executive Orders, he’s already banned reimportation of our own surplus M1 Garands from Korea and banned imports of semi-automatic AK’s from China. (Is there anything else?) When Congress doesn’t do his bidding on this, he’ll ExO whatever gun restrictions he wants.

It won't help him

Scope (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 6:41PM EDT (link)

For the last 2 years at least, gun sales, and ammunition sales have exploded. As my husband said today, he will never have the ability to ban Americans to have, buy and own guns, and ammunition. Heck, we can’t keep guns out of the hands of the most egregious among us. You might need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy one, but, I can see the barter system becoming vibrant if he tries to become an outlaw president. I bet the barter system is already alive and well in the US.

Probably true, but ...

pastisprolog Sunday, January 30th at 7:11PM EDT (link)

… most Americans try really hard to be law-abiding, especially gun owners. By definition, legal gun ownership is, well, legal. Do you think that the FBI or ATF would not sting illegal “barter” gun transactions and then make huge political hay with it? They would throw the book at whoever got caught up in this.

It would take years to get this through the courts. In New Orleans, the authorities still haven’t returned most confiscated firearms or paid compensation for the ones they lost or ruined.

And, in the meantime, people who are caught owning newly banned rifles and hi-cap magazines in places with state or local registries (like NY, CA and MA) will find themselves in violation of federal felony statutes if they don’t surrender their property. In the other places, gun stores will be forced to turn over their sales records or face arrest and closure.

The point of all this is, of course, to turn law-abiding gun owners into felons who, then, legally can’t own guns any more.

Clever, nasty, and time-tested in dictatorships around the world for a hundred years.

Huh?

Scope (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:25PM EDT (link)

If a gun is traded by the barter system the FBI and any other government agency doesn’t have clue about the trade. Duh! It would take years to get what through the court system? those that bartered guns for whatever? Are you delusional? It’s laughable that you think that turning over gun sale records from gun stores will give the government any control over who owns guns. Many have bought guns from private sales, including, me buying a gun from my buddy type of sales. If it comes to it, I promise, no one will be worried about felons owning guns.

Well, it has happened already.

pastisprolog Sunday, January 30th at 10:17PM EDT (link)

The courts would be involved trying to get an Executive Order imposing gun and accessory bans overturned. After Hurricane Katrina, the city of New Orleans illegally confiscated every legally owned firearm it could find. It did it using house-to-house searches. They arrested anyone who didn’t submit to the searches. It took years to get the courts to rule the action illegal and order the return of the confiscated guns. The city still hasn’t complied or paid damages for lost or ruined guns.

Many government agencies are already stinging firearms retailers with bogus straw purchases and then taking action to close them down.

The real “Crocodile Dundee” died in a shoot-out with Australian authorities when he refused to surrender his rifles after they were banned. I know this didn’t happen in America, but the Australian model is a favorite of gun-banners throughout the world.

Other than criminals, very few residents of NYC own firearms, especially handguns. It started with a registry and ended with a total ban backed up by significant penalties for violating the bans. It took a generation or two, but most NYC’ers decided it wasn’t worth the risk to keep their guns illegally, and as their original owners passed away, the guns were surrendered or sold away.

Backed up by an Executive Order banning the possession or transfer of specified firearms or accessories, authorities would certainly conduct stings to trap formerly legal gun owners trying to barter now illegal firearms.

With the TSA’s snitching program already causing problems, it would surely be expanded to include reporting known gun owners. I don’t know about everyone, but even though I live in area surrounded by dozens of thousands of acres of hunting land, and within 30 minutes of five gun clubs, only one of my neighbors is in favor of private gun ownership and the rest would rat me out in a heart-beat if they thought I kept an illegal gun. (We are trying to move, but no one is buying anything here.)

Once an ExO bans the possession of certain firearms and accessories and makes keeping them a felony, being convicted of keeping or bartering one of the banned items would make the former law-abiding American a felon.

With the FCC deciding to ignore a federal court decision denying it authority to regulate the Internet, it went ahead and did it anyway. Would ATF do otherwise if an ExO authorized it to track down and confiscate specified firearms and accessories?

One more thing. If all this hadn’t already happended elsewhere (U.K., Soviet Union, Germany, France, Viet Nam, China, South Africa, Japan, actually, almost everywhere), and if some of this hadn’t already happended in certain places in America already, it is still uncalled for to ask if I’m delusional. Insults aren’t arguments. But the truth is, certain juristictions in America have already been stripped of legally owned firearms, their owners forced to choose between retaiining possession of now illegal guns, with all the risk to livelihood and property that entails, or getting rid of the guns. Even if the original owners were willing to take the risk, their heirs usually aren’t.

I don’t live where I need a state permit to keep a gun and where there is no state registry of firearms. But I live next to states where residents have to purchase a seperate permit for each new gun and get permits renewed to keep them, one permit for each gun. If one of those states banned certain handguns, shotguns and rifles, and hi-cap magazines, each and everyone of them werre registered, it would be very simple to confiscate the guns or arrest the owners for failure to surrender. It has already happended in CA, NYC, MA. Did they get them all? No, but over time most of the guns were finally surrendered or sent out of state.

So, it is hardly delusional to point out that those absolutely opposed to private ownership of firearms in America would try to use the same means used everywhere else in the world to disarm civilians. Americans remain unique in the world in being able to legally own firearms that they can keep at home and often carry for self-defense.

If an ExO changed all that, how long would it take to get the Supreme Court to overturn it, and what would happen in the meanwhile?

 
 
 
 
 

Gun control is simply

rickbull Sunday, January 30th at 7:22PM EDT (link)

the ability to hit what one has his/her sites on.

That is the only “gun control” that I will ever recognize.

WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).

 

This is one thing that won't happen.

froster (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 8:19PM EDT (link)

The Democratic Caucus in the House is probably very pro-gun control (now that the Blue Dogs are gone)

But…
Jeff Bingaman, Mark Begich, Max Baucus, Joe Tester, Mark Udall, Michael Bennet, Tom Udall, Kent Conrad, Tim Johnson, Ben Nelson, Joe Manchin, Bob Casey, Kay Hagan, Mary Landrieu, Mark Pryor, Claire McCaskill, Jim Webb and Mark Warner have all voted “pro gun-rights” in the last few years.

That leaves the gun control caucus with 35 votes. And 35 short. Simply put, not going to happen.

Republican from California.

 

Gun design makes you shoot bad?

Kudzu (Diary) Sunday, January 30th at 10:57PM EDT (link)

Really? Ummm sure… if you say so Elmer.

Unless you’re shooting matches you really should not worry too much about how many rounds you can put inside a quarter. Worry about hitting the black on a target and keeping the groupings withing a 5″ diameter.

My own aresenal:
SIG Sauer P228 9mm
Springfield XD subcompact .40 (actually for sale)
Daniel Defense M4 5.56mm
Mossberg 500 w/ pistol grip 12ga.
Browning Auto-5 (Lite) 12 ga

My carbon footprint makes environazis squeemish.

It always did take two of you to take down one of me. – Jo Bob Priddy, North Dallas Forty.

Now on at http://kudzu630.wordpress.com/

Do you really need an answer to this

PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:10AM EDT (link)

since you state you have guns?

Not sure who you are talking to or calling Elmer, but gun design and quality can and does make a difference. Any person who has had guns more than a day knows that. High Point is a prime example of poor design and quality and in turn, piss poor firing and accuracy.

But anywho, I never bought those cheap guns, but I have owned guns where the grip was too big or too small and it made holding it properly tough and shooting accurately even tougher.

I don't know to whom he was speaking to either Power

Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:20AM EDT (link)

threading is so helpful, or at least use a screen name that exists. The only thing I can think of is the famous gun guy/writer Elmer Keith. Like this guy was comparing whomever he was speaking to as a wanna be Elmer Keith. Just a guess, only thing that comes to mind.

Molon Labe!

My first thought was...

chbroussard (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 1:46PM EDT (link)

he was talking about Elmer Fudd and shooting pesky wabbits.

maybe he was sniffing

Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 5:45PM EDT (link)

Elmer’s glue? :)

Molon Labe!

Yep, that's another very real possibility! nt

chbroussard (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 6:06PM EDT (link)
 
 
 
 
 

They have their reasons

keven (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 12:13AM EDT (link)

Why are the Democrats going to push for gun control now? Three reasons…..

1-They need some red meat for their base. Since there won’t be any elections for nearly 2 years, its a fairly good time to do it. Many will forget after a year and a half. Obama has done some moderate things lately. I believe he plans on being conservative on the education issue aswell. He needs to appease his base with something. They know it will go no where, but thats OK too. Its all about the message anyway for when the time is ripe. More on the message point in reason two.

2-The leader of the opposition like it or not is Sarah Palin. And Palin is percieved as Annie Oakley. They wish to continue the message theme of Republicans as uncivil, extreme, and dangerous. This kinda fits the Dems and medias message. Those gun toting Tea Partiers won’t even cut back on magazine sizes. DANGEROUS EXTREMISTS the Dems and media will say.

3-For the last two years, the Dems and media have been setting the stage for a “see, we told you the Tea Party is violent” message. Remember Nancy Pelosi crying? I can give 20 examples of the Dems and media setting the stage. They waited patiently as violent act after violent act after violent act was perpetrated by Liberals-Socialists-Bush haters–Obama voters-Athiests-Communists-etc. Then they thought they had their moment in Arizona and jumped the gun so to speak.

Clearly they haven’t given up this strategy knowing that eventually someone who is conservative will do something crazy. Its only a matter of time, 42% of the country is conservative. So they will continue to push the meme and wait. And if by October 2012 conservatives have kept their cool, I wouldn’t put it past the Dems to attack themselves and try and set up the Tea Party.

So they will need to continue the narrative and continue the issue of guns in the debate for when the time is right. Just imagine if Loughner wasn’t a crazy left wing anarchist, but somebody who was a Tea Partier or a conservative. The Dems very well might be able to take advantage of that crisis and start taking some guns. And the establishment Republicans will probably fold like a tent in that environment.

Lets just say the Dems clearly have a reason. Understanding their strategy is step one in stopping it.

 

unintended consequences

steve010 (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 6:35AM EDT (link)

NYC has always had some of the most restrictive handgun laws in the country. Basically, NYC you can’t have a handgun even in your home and even if you never take it outside. In the mid-1970′s, the laws were even more restrictive than they are now.

In the movie, Taxi Driver, 1976, Travis Bickle, a fictional Jared Loughner clone, buys 4 handguns from Alex, the traveling salesman. He buys a .44 Magnum longbarrel, a .38 snubnose, a .25 automatic, and a Walther PPK, all for less than 1K dollars. He was planning the assassination of a politician.

I think gun control activists miss the reality that if a person is willing to break a law like 1st degree murder, why would they care about breaking a gun control restriction law? The only people who are concerned about breaking the gun control law are the people who wouldn’t use the handgun for a criminal purpose. Makes for great political rhetoric though.

 

Constitutional Law Degree Requires Actually Reading It, Doesn't It?

clefi Monday, January 31st at 6:51AM EDT (link)

Quote:
We’ve repeatedly warned readers not to believe Barack Obama when he claims to support our Second Amendment rights. We have told you the truth–that Barack Obama is the most anti-gun presidential candidate in American history! Hands down. No question. Barack Obama opposes the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding, freedom-loving, American firearm owners.

We’ve given the facts, and provided the documentation. But if you know someone who’s still not convinced, you’ll want to share with them a recent, open letter to our nation’s gun owners, hunters, and sportsmen, written by Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA) Executive Director Richard Pearson. Pearson’s credentials include deep involvement in the firearm rights movement for more than 40 years. He’s been the chief lobbyist for the ISRA for the past 15 years. And, most importantly, because of his personal experience, he knows Barack Obama’s true stance on the Second Amendment.
In his letter, Mr. Pearson says, “I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama’s attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.”
Mr. Pearson goes on to describe just some of Obama’s anti-gun voting record, saying, “While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns.” Obama also voted FOUR TIMES against legislation that would protect a homeowner who use a firearm in defense of home and family!

To see Obama’s whole record for yourself, please visit www.GunBanObama.com.

 

Constitutional Law Degree Requires Actually Reading It, Doesn't It?

clefi Monday, January 31st at 6:51AM EDT (link)

Quote:
We’ve repeatedly warned readers not to believe Barack Obama when he claims to support our Second Amendment rights. We have told you the truth–that Barack Obama is the most anti-gun presidential candidate in American history! Hands down. No question. Barack Obama opposes the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding, freedom-loving, American firearm owners.

We’ve given the facts, and provided the documentation. But if you know someone who’s still not convinced, you’ll want to share with them a recent, open letter to our nation’s gun owners, hunters, and sportsmen, written by Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA) Executive Director Richard Pearson. Pearson’s credentials include deep involvement in the firearm rights movement for more than 40 years. He’s been the chief lobbyist for the ISRA for the past 15 years. And, most importantly, because of his personal experience, he knows Barack Obama’s true stance on the Second Amendment.
In his letter, Mr. Pearson says, “I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama’s attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.”
Mr. Pearson goes on to describe just some of Obama’s anti-gun voting record, saying, “While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns.” Obama also voted FOUR TIMES against legislation that would protect a homeowner who use a firearm in defense of home and family!

To see Obama’s whole record for yourself, please visit www.GunBanObama.com.

He's the most anti-Constitution President ever. nt

Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 11:42AM EDT (link)

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)

 
 

Meanwhile one of the best new shows on Discovery

kyle8 (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 7:09AM EDT (link)

Is a show about guys who create a bunch of custom guns.

Gun control is a dead letter except in liberal enclaves, this is idiotic even for this administration.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

The scary thing about this is it might be Obama's

ihateliberals Monday, January 31st at 8:27AM EDT (link)

first successful lobby for something. Don’t forget that clinton is advocating we be bound by the UN wanting to take away gun rights for all countries. This is in direct opposition to our Constitution but that doesmt seem to both her at all.

right now in Egypt the people are trying to change the country and the fact they have no guns, the government controls the internet and cell phones there isn’t much they can do about it. These are some of the basic rights that Obama and crew are trying to take away from us. If the FCC allows them to control the phone system and they are also able to turn the internet on and off at will the people will be paralyzed to do anything especially if our rights to weapons are also taken away. we had better get this regime our of office as fast as possible. It may already be too late.

 

I

gunslingr45 Monday, January 31st at 8:43AM EDT (link)

SWEAR I went out before I heard about this and purchased the wife a 40 cal tarsus for Valentines Day. Guns and Roses is not just a band!

A rifle behind every blade of grass.
Isoroku Yamamoto?

One of the first gifts from my husband when we were dating was...

Melody Warbington (rwm52) (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 11:44AM EDT (link)

a .38 special. A couple of years ago, he gave me a street sweeper for Christmas. He sure knows the way to my heart.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh (he that is called Christ): when he is come, he will declare unto us all things. (John 4:25)

 
 

Tell me about John Huntsman - running for pres per politico. nt

carolina Monday, January 31st at 10:03AM EDT (link)

Tell me about John Huntsman - running for pres per politico. nt

carolina Monday, January 31st at 10:03AM EDT (link)

I got one thing to say:

pay3ought Monday, January 31st at 10:16AM EDT (link)

????? ????

that was supposed to say

pay3ought Monday, January 31st at 10:18AM EDT (link)

Mol?n labe!

 
 

Armed Americans Threaten Statism

jdelaney3 Monday, January 31st at 10:45AM EDT (link)

Try though I might, it is still impossible for me to believe that Obama and his radical leftist minions are not about disarming Americans, thus emasculating the 2nd Amendment. For them, and in so many ways, the Constitution is but a pesky inconvenience, something to be circumvented when doing so advances their statist goals. Their dual goal remains that of shutting down a free exchange of ideas while disarming Americans. The ultimate remedy for tyranny.

jim delaney

 

Still At It ...

bay0wulf Monday, January 31st at 1:30PM EDT (link)

I’ve said repeatedly that what I believe what we are seeing happening is obscuration and obfustication. Like a magician doing tricks, he pulls our attention to something else, somewhere else.

Obama & Co. keep dozens of items coming at us knowing that some are going to get blocked completely, some are going to get blocked partially and some are going to get through. Then there are the things that you’d think we blocked but are really just waiting for us to look in another direction so it can start moving forward again.

Think for a minute just how many things have been thrown at us. How many have failed. How many seem to have just faded out. Was the Illegal Immigrant question resolved? Or just put on a back burner? How about Cap & Trade? Actually the list is almost endless.

Smoke & Mirrors, Distraction & Confusion.

I believe this is the Agenda for advancing “The Agenda”

 

NYC Mayor Bloomberg Launches Undercover Gun Sting......... In Arizona.

Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, January 31st at 7:05PM EDT (link)

Yeah, I know.

I know.

Don’t yell.

Watch the video yourself.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says undercover New York investigators illegally purchased semi-automatic pistols in Arizona, not long after the mass shooting in Tucson. He says it exposes a “dangerous gap” in federal gun laws.

STOP SHOUTING !…… I’ve already got a headache from all the Moose Limb nonsense.

Anyway, if you didn’t see ‘em, here’s a few of the comments at the link:

Arrest the criminal New Yorkers committing the gun crimes in Arizona and the boss that ordered the criminal activity.

Why is broke NY spending extra taxpayer money in AZ? Pick up the phone and call the FBI.

The Arizona Army and Air National Guard needs to defend its sovereignty and attack NYC right away.

Jan Brewer should send some guys to NYC to investigate the snow removal practices of the sanitation dept.