Fox News has the basic story, which goes as follows: an agent of the BATFE was ordered to go and buy six Draco semi-automatic pistols from gun shops. Those guns were then resold to “known illegal buyers:” i.e., people known to resell guns illegally. So far, this is not actually bad, because this would be how standard sting operations go… except that they didn’t arrest the buyers immediately. Which makes… sense, right, because Dracos are legal-to-own guns in the USA; so the BATFE would just have to keep a constant watch on the guns to make sure that they didn’t miss it when the bad guys tried to smuggle the guns out of the country – no, wait, it’s reported that ATF group supervisor David Voth ordered that there be no 24 hour surveillance. Well. Good thing that Agent John Dodson ignored that order and did a personal stakeout of the bad guys for six days, huh? Because he was there when they moved out with the guns! He was able to call in a request for an interdiction team!
…Which was refused.
This would be the point where I show you what a Draco semi-automatic pistol looks like.
If you’re saying to yourself right now, Gee, Moe, that looks a lot like the Romanian PM md. 90 carbine – i.e., their version of the AK-47 – with the folding stock removed in order to be legal for the US gun market – well, if you did then you probably didn’t need to look up the precise details on Wikipedia like I did. But, honestly, you probably saw the picture and said “AK-47 without a stock” (which is pretty much the right answer anyway); and you probably even know how difficult it is to make one of these things fully automatic again. Or to put a stock back on it. Or do any number of modifications that are, in point of fact, illegal under American (and presumably Mexican) law. WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE LAWS REGULATING THE SALE OF FIREARMS. Laws that were apparently being broken by the very federal agencies that we were counting on to enforce them.
And if this story is true, they were personally being broken.
Moe Lane (crosspost)
PS: We really need a special prosecutor for this mess at this point.
[UPDATE: Via Hot Air comes a copy of the letter in question. And as Sipsey Street Irregulars notes, if this letter is genuine then we can stop pretending that Fast & Furious was a botched sting operation. The government wasn't even trying to make it a sting operation, frankly.]
Moe Lane
Dan Spencer
Dan McLaughlin
Jeff Emanuel
So if Fast & Furious wasn't a sting, what *was* it?
acat (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 6:19PM EDT (link)What other possible reasons could there be to commit an act of war – arming rebel groups in other countries is an act of war – against our neighbor and ally Mexico?
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
Gun Control
wennejunk (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 6:50PM EDT (link)Pure and Simple. *Identify* a problem, *Show* the problem is because of our loose gun laws. Use problem to force changes in gun laws to combat evil gun sellers and evil gun owners.
Become a hero to the suddenly safer public.
They need better script writers for their fantasies, apparently.
There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, ‘Thy will be done.’ -C. S. Lewis
I think Fast & Furious
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 1:07AM EDT (link)I think Fast & Furious was originally an idea to show the “problem” in the 4th Amendment. But once it got rolling the feds used it as a way to run guns to the bad guys in Mexico to forment terror. The whole idea being to de-stablize the Mexican Govt. and create waves of panic among the Mexican people to force them north into America. Obama has no intention of controlling the border, they are inciting violence to move as many people north as possible. They want to overwhelm the border states and make the Republican governors look bad.
If this is not terrorism inflicted against a population then I don’t know what is.
Enough with the cover-up and lies – this needs to be priority number one.
American sovereignty is at steak.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Problem with the 4th Amendment?
potkas7 Tuesday, September 27th at 6:32AM EDT (link)What problem with the 4th Amendment? The 4th covers searches, seizures, warrants and probable cause. I don’t quite understand how “Fast & Furious” provides any meaningful test of those provisions.
Dooh, I meant the 2nd Amendment
izoneguy (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 9:31AM EDT (link)Dooh, I meant the 2nd Amendment
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
I Don't Know About the Last Bit
edintexas Tuesday, September 27th at 12:29PM EDT (link)The part about becoming a hero would be becoming a hero to the Progressives, not the general public. But I think that you are correct about the effort being about “proving” the need for more gun control laws.
We do know that the Administration was putting out the garbage “statistic” of 90% of all guns involved in cartel violence in Mexico came from the US long before any ATF “whistleblowers” came forward, or any gun store owners complained publicly about “the government” telling them to sell guns to people who could not pass the instant check.
In the past, BATF (reorganized into BATFE – both generally called ATF) was known to engage in less than legal activities in order to increase their power and budget through “PR” activities (think the Branch Davidian Search Warrant fiasco). Some ATF Special Agents were known to engage in entrapment as a means of boosting the overall prosecution statistics.
It is highly improbable that hard evidence (i.e. other than testimony) will come to light which implicates either Holder or Dear Leader. Even more so given the Administration stonewalling investigation. Though I do wonder where the media is on the cover-up. You know, the same media which worked 125% to get Richard M. Nixon out of office for spying on the Democrat Party. Oh, wait – it wasn’t the break it, it was the cover-up according to this same media.
Stop and Think:
funwithknives Tuesday, September 27th at 1:07PM EDT (link)White House Approval was REQUIRED to start Gun Shops reporting to ATF, from the 4 border states, for multiple Semi-Auto sales in a 48-hour time frame.This new *Requirement* is a violation of current Federal gun laws (It’s a Federal Registry, and banned in Federal Codes)
But yet we are to somehow consider credible, the claim that Barry nor Eric knew Zilch about F&F/Gunrunner? Our current administration so obviously believes we are BOOBs,it is the only transparent thing in Gov’t, that Barry & Co. seems capable of.
“LIE TO ME, Barry…Lie to me….!”
F&F was always about trumping up the anti-gun
Tbone (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 6:37PM EDT (link)issues so that Obama could issue an Executive Order.
Holder and Obama should be indicted. The fact that they won’t speaks volumes as to what is wrong with this Country.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
If any hard evidence can be found. . .
msctex (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:09PM EDT (link). . .that this was actually all done in an attempt to subvert the Constitution, those in charge need to be prosecuted to the ends of the Earth.
With Issa calling for a special prosecutor
easyb (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:35PM EDT (link)This could get really interesting….
Indeed. If this is the latest Moe knows, what's the latest Issa knows?
acat (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:38PM EDT (link)Or, shorter, why would Issa call for a special prosecutor if this *doesn’t* go all the way to the oval office?
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
Exactly what I was thinking
easyb (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:43PM EDT (link)nt
Actually higher than that Cat
Scope (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 8:35PM EDT (link)It goes directly to the Obama and Rice support of the UN agenda to get rid of all guns by all citizens everywhere. Obama loves him some UN agendas as I really believe he thinks his next position will be heading the UN. Hopefully the next president will kick the UN out of the US.
I do not accept that the U.N. is higher than the POTUS, Scope.
acat (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 8:47PM EDT (link)I think the U.N. would be a lot more productive if located in, say, El Centro, Dominican Republic or Belle Anse, Haiti. Better climate, easy air travel from D.C., New York, and Miami, and both sides of Hispanola could use the economic help.
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
I'm thinking Mogadishu . . .
rickbull Monday, September 26th at 10:14PM EDT (link)That way the Asian and African delegations wouldn’t have to travel so far. Would also give us a bit more incentive to nuke the damned thing.
WE ARE THE 53% (who actually pay taxes).
But wasn't that the purpose of Somuchmanure?
Scope (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 10:32PM EDT (link)and Kagan on the SC? Those international feminazis?
somuchmanure, that is a good one :) -nt
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 10:38PM EDT (link).
Molon Labe!
Can't come up with a good name for Kagan though
Scope (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 10:44PM EDT (link)I’m sure someone will or has.
Hulkagan?
noodle Monday, September 26th at 11:35PM EDT (link)n/t
HAHAHA, Scope! "Somuchmanure" takes the blue ribbon! nt
pttx333 (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 7:58AM EDT (link)…
Issa should give Holder 30 days to appoint an Independent Counsel
Tbone (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:46PM EDT (link)and if he fails to do so, introduce a Bill in Congress.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Does the special prosecutor law give Holder a time limit?
acat (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:49PM EDT (link)The War Powers Act, for instance, has it’s time limits well defined. Did the drafters of the special prosecutor law really leave this off?
If not, then Issa just has to follow the law to the letter and make sure to dot his lowercase j’s and – this is key – keep releasing data like this so the media can’t walk away from it.
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
It actually is setforth in a DoJ Regulation
Tbone (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 10:48AM EDT (link)after the Law expired.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
How "independent" would an Independent Counsel really be?
heartlander (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 9:23AM EDT (link)I wouldn’t trust anyone appointed by Eric Holder. That just sounds to me like a foolproof way of making sure that justice does not get done.
“The still, small voice of God in every human soul is the greatest ally of the pro-life cause, and why it will ultimately prevail.”
–Donald R. McClarey
Hilary Clinton is at the root of F&F but the question is
ihateliberals Tuesday, September 27th at 7:52AM EDT (link)wil she be protected and will Holder take the fall for her. Ever since Clinton went to the UN and agreed to their push to end hand guns in the world she has been doing whatever she could to bring this to fruition. This most likely goes all the way to the top but I’ll bet we never know for sure just like we will never know for sure who killed Kennedy (Lyndon Johnson).
hmm haven't heard much about Hillary connection
Common_Cents (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 9:20AM EDT (link)is this Chicago thug politics at work? Throwing a potential primary threat under the Obama bus? Keeping your friends close…..
“Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured…. but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen.” -Ben Stein
“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”[especially in DC] – Friedrich Nietzsche
Where Did You Get That
edintexas Tuesday, September 27th at 10:30AM EDT (link)“Ever since Clinton went to the UN and agreed to their push to end hand guns in the world…”.
Where did you get the idea that the UN push for international gun control was all about ending private handgun ownership? The antis aren’t thinking like pikers here, they want complete licensing of all non-government gun owners and tracking of all privately owned firearms – ALL.
And they want to eliminate semi-automatic firearms (pistols, rifles and shotguns), so they will need licensing of owners and registration of firearms to make sure they get most of them.
Nope, this is not about handguns, it is about all guns. Some guns prohibited will just be a “good start” (as they always say about every liberty removing anti-gun law).
maybe they just got bored waiting on the criminals
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 7:48PM EDT (link)why not speed things up a bit, you know, to get the ball rolling?
That is pretty much happened with Randy Weaver right? They got a friend of his to badger him into cutting a shotgun barrel 1/4 inch shorter than the magic number allowed by law. Innocent people died over that one too.
Molon Labe!
A key piece of information is missing, Moe.
Steve Maley (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 8:09PM EDT (link)Did we get a decent price for the guns?
The blogger formerly known as ‘Vladimir’.
Late to the party
davod Monday, September 26th at 8:58PM EDT (link)There are at least 200 Mexican and at least three US lawmens deaths linked to guns provided via Fast and Furious.
DAVOD
Definition of Terrorism under U.S. Law.
davod Monday, September 26th at 9:01PM EDT (link)United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)
(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;
(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and
(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—
(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—
(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or
(ii) as a transit point; and
(B) the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—
(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;
(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or
(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title.
DAVOD
*if* impeachment visits the O's first term...
anotherindyfilmguy (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 10:25PM EDT (link)can they tie in Biden for a twofer?
Razz Etc!
“Best Poker book written ever!!!” – Author’s unbiased opinion…
LOL nt
westcoastpatriette (Diary) Monday, September 26th at 10:29PM EDT (link).
Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise His name in the dance: let them sing praises unto Him with the timbrel and harp. Psalm 149:1-3
If these homegrown state sponsors
blooch Monday, September 26th at 10:37PM EDT (link)of terrorism get their own deck of cards, there’s one of your Jokers. Napolitano can wear the other set of liliripes.
“Lieutenant Dike wasn’t a bad leader because he made bad decisions. He was a bad leader because he made no decisions.”
The problem is that the Obama Administration is probably already planning to pull a Gerald Ford...
minister_of_war Tuesday, September 27th at 3:16AM EDT (link)When this situation gets so out-of-hand for Obama & Co. that impeachmen for this criminal enterprise & its botched cover-up is certain & serious felony legal prosecution is imminent, Obama has probably already received guarantees from the new President Joe Biden that upon their resignations, Biden will fully pardon Obama, Holder, Napolitano & a few other close associates for their involvement in this criminal scheme. And of course, they will throw a few lower level government employees who were just following orders under the bus at the same time.
Obama just has to make a choice: does he resign before the election to ensure a pardon or does he gamble & hope that upon losing re-election that Republicans controlling all branches of federal government power, just ignore the illegal actions of the previous administration.
No indication of intent from the letter
dajeeps (Diary) Tuesday, September 27th at 2:02AM EDT (link)I don’t see anything there that says what the guns would be used for one way or another. It’s not quite the smoking gun I thought it would be before I clicked on the link.
Was that Agent Dodson’s testimony that there were no 24-hr stakeouts and that arrest of these guys with the guns was refused? There’s no source for that.
While I rather enjoy these lefties getting the shaft, and the Obama admin. with egg on its face, it would be nice to have the facts come out so we can look at them and see what really happened without having it clouded with conjecture. After all, these bad guys actually used these weapons, and there are grieving families as a result.
In that respect, I don’t believe it really matters why the bad guys got away with the goods. They did and innocent people got killed. The question is – where does the buck stop? Are we going to settle for the administration handing over the pawns? No, I don’t think we should. It doesn’t matter whether Holder had anything to do with it, it’s within his purview and he is ultimately responsible. He needs to go.
…”I would quarrel with both parties and with every individual of each, before I would subjugate my understanding, or prostitute my tongue or pen to either.”
–John Adams
One good turn deserves another
johnt Tuesday, September 27th at 9:13AM EDT (link)It might be nice to have friends across the border, armed & decidely non-pacific, come 2012. Folks who though not nice believe in repayng favors, and who could match up with ,ah, politically active and energetic counterparts in this country. Solely to protect Democracy you understand,yes, to save progressivism as it were.
A lttle muscle never hurt. Did Trunka or Hoffa say that ?
“a man’s admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him”. Tocqueville
One Flaw with That Scenario
edintexas Tuesday, September 27th at 11:22AM EDT (link)The flaw is that it will only work in Blue states with stringent gun control (or a low level of gun ownership without the restrictions of places like Chicago, NJ and NYC). Because those states will vote the “right way” anyway, it would sort of be a waste of effort.
I don’t see people in Red states like TX, ID, GA, etc. cowering in fear of this sort of threat. Some will do nothing in fear of harm, some will call 911 and wait for the response (basically sit on the fence). But many will pick up their own firearms and respond while waiting for the 911 call to work out.
There was more than just the one Gun running project
mutantone Tuesday, September 27th at 7:30PM EDT (link)Why are we not hearing anything about the second project that allowed twice as many weapons to disappear to gangs inside the USA?
PROSECUTION ??????
barrowmrb Thursday, September 29th at 7:04AM EDT (link)A BORDER PATROLMAN IS MURDERED. CITIZENS ARE MURDERED. MEXICAN CITIZENS ARE MURDERED.
WILL THERE BE ANY PROSECUTIONS???????
OF COURSE NOT. ALL THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS IN THE WORLD WILL NOT STOP THE OBAMA WHITE HOUSE FROM DOING WHAT THEY WANT.
AND IF,,,IF A NEW REPUBLICAN GETS IN,,THEN NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. NO INVESTIGATION, NO JAIL, NO INFORMATION,,
NO PROSECUTION.
JUST THE SAME OLD WASHINGTON D.C.LIES.