It’s funny: by the standards of a lot of people in the GOP I’m pretty firmly in the ‘pro-amnesty squish’ wing. [INSERT INTEMPERATE RESPONSE TO INSULTING AND PROVOCATIVE STATEMENT THAT WILL NOT FOSTER PARTY UNITY, BUT WILL MAKE THE RESPONDER PERSONALLY FEEL BETTER ABOUT BEING CALLED A RUDE NAME HERE] So it’s always a little interesting to talk about the immigration debate in the primaries. Particularly since the two people that I’ll be talking about – Rick Perry and Mitt Romney – are both considered to be pro-amnesty squishes themselves by some.
First off, we have what is an entertainingly unhinged response by Team Romney over something written about Rick Perry in passing by MSNBC:
Asked about a testy exchange with Mitt Romney on the issue of illegal immigration during last week’s debate, Perry repeated his assertion that Romney was a part of the nation’s illegal immigration problem when undocumented individuals worked on his property.
“Mitt stands back and makes statements about criticizing Texas for how they’ve had to deal with an issue,” he said, “[when] the federal government and people like himself are the problem.”
Perry is referring to this story from the 2008 election cycle:
For those without video, it discusses how then-Governor Romney had used a company that hired illegals to do landscaping on his mansion – and continued to use it for a year after it was brought to his attention the first time (and, yes, during that time the company continued to hire illegals). All perfectly accurate – and it led to Mitt Romney uttering the immortal words “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake: I can’t have illegals.” All in all, it appears that Team Romney was and is very unhappy to discover that this issue wasn’t actually dealt with already*, so they took the time to make sure that MSNBC knew that they were still reacting, ah, rather heatedly on the topic:
“Rick Perry is a desperate candidate resorting to negative personal attacks because his campaign is collapsing. [snip of various poorly-sourced allegations and whines] While Rick Perry thinks a border fence is ‘idiocy’ and that people that don’t support in-state tuition for illegal immigrants ‘don’t have a heart,’ Mitt Romney supports a border fence and vetoed an in-state tuition bill as governor.”
Two things on that: one, that doesn’t sound like a particularly confident campaign, does it? I mean, isn’t Herman Cain currently the major contender, and everything? Why such venom towards Team Perry? Second, and more importantly: so if not allowing in-state tuition for illegal immigrant children is such a horrible thing… where does free medical care for illegals fit in on that spectrum?
The Massachusetts healthcare law that then-Gov. Mitt Romney signed in 2006 includes a program known as the Health Safety Net, which allows undocumented immigrants to get needed medical care along with others who lack insurance.
Uninsured, poor immigrants can walk into a health clinic or hospital in the state and get publicly subsidized care at virtually no cost to them, regardless of their immigration status.
That article – cruelly, in my opinion – takes the time to pretty much call a lie Team Romney’s counterclaim that the governor didn’t know that the program was going to support illegals, and that the ‘outrageous’ parts of it were put into place after Romney declined to seek re-election; the language in the bill that Romney signed shows that legal status was explicitly considered in some parts, and thus explicitly not considered in others – including, in point of fact, the Health Safety Net. For that matter, the paper is implying (hard to tell, given the relative lack of attributed quotes) that the consensus at the time among those involved in Romneycare was that illegals would be covered. And, lastly – and with malice aforethought – the LA Times included this quote from Romney: “We have to turn off the magnet of extraordinary government benefits.”
Ouch.
The funny part about all of this? I’m a pro-amnesty squish: I am not particularly upset at either Texas or Massachusetts coming up with a program that perhaps gently deals with a particular aspect of the situation on the state level – and both programs were apparently well received**. And I honestly don’t expect that either position would particularly hurt either candidate in the general election. But if Team Romney wants to play the hardcore immigration demagogue game, then they should kindly explain why it’s somehow worse to have for Texas to have an immigrant policy that results in the reduction of revenue (no state income tax in Texas, remember?) than it is for Massachusetts to have an immigrant policy that results in an added charge to the taxpayer. Which, of course, inevitably means even higher taxes in the latter state.
Mandates tend to do that.
(MSNBC/LA Times links via The Transom.)
Moe Lane (crosspost)
*”We’ve already addressed this” is a term of art beloved by the professional politician class; it’s used to suggest that a potentially-damaging revelation can only be used once before it loses all of its power in future election cycles. What they don’t mention is that this is only true when the person that it’s targeting wins anyway. Did Romney’s illegal problem sink him in 2008? Maybe, maybe not. But he did lose the nomination.
**I am as doubtful as the author of this article implicitly is that the perennial effort to repeal the TX law is going to go anywhere.
Moe Lane
Dan Spencer
Dan McLaughlin
Jeff Emanuel
Romney Derangement Syndrome
domingos Monday, October 24th at 12:09PM EDT (link)Anyone who didnt trust the the LA Times, could have taken 15 minutes to find out that Deval Patrick implemented eligibility requirements for the program.
Hi! I’m a moby called fredericbastiat!
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/10/ken-buck-wins/#comment-78465
ER Act of 1996 requires care regardless of coverage
Jeff Emanuel (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:14PM EDT (link)The question here is not one of care (or access to care), but of coverage. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the difference between the two before you look utterly foolish in public again.
JE
You Are Wrong
domingos Monday, October 24th at 12:27PM EDT (link)The health safety net is NOT part of Mass Health. That program is about care, not coverage. You obviously put to much trust in a liberal rag. You wouldn’t think conservatives would trust the L.A Times with so much certitude.
Hi! I’m a moby called fredericbastiat!
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/10/ken-buck-wins/#comment-78465
I'll trust my research and publishing on RomneyCare...
Jeff Emanuel (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:28PM EDT (link)…more than your confused ramblings, thanks.
JE
Maybe it's time to look at Federal Laws that are burdens to the states?
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:03PM EDT (link)Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act was passed in 1986
A recent patient survey indicated that 70% of the women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Where is this Parkland story referenced?
rickperryreport Monday, October 24th at 10:24PM EDT (link)I have seen this in an email, but I could never source it. When I was a cub reporter on the Texas-Mexico border, I asked a hospital administrator to provide me with records of how many illegals give birth to anchor babies. He said it was not policy or required to record the nationality of each visitor to the ER or maternity ward. He may even said that law prevents him. So I am suspect of the source for the Parkland (Dallas) numbers.
Joe Hyde
http://rickperryreport.com/
Here are some more sources about Parkland
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 10:45PM EDT (link)Across Texas, 60,000 babies of noncitizens get U.S. birthright
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
And all ER visits are for emergency care?
politicalgal1 Monday, October 24th at 1:48PM EDT (link)I can speak from experience in my state that the majority of emergency room visits by non-English speaking residents is not for emergency care. Very few of the ER visits are for life-threatening emergency medical care.
Hi, domingos/fredericbastiat!
Moe Lane (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:36PM EDT (link)Good-bye, domingos / fredericbastiat!
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/10/ken-buck-wins/#comment-78465
God, I love retreads. Particularly ones that I’ve banned before. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.
Moe Lane
The Kim Kardashian of blogging.
Check out my blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://moelane.com/filthy-lucre-filthy-lucre/
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (combined) wish list.
What state has a law turns away illegal immigrants that need emergency care from hospitals?
ribeye Monday, October 24th at 12:14PM EDT (link)It’s a ridiculous comparison for Perry to make to say that paying college tuition at a $100,000 per illegal alien is somehow equivalent to a state budgeting to pay hospitals for emergency room care when an illegal alien outside the system goes into a hospital in Massachusetts.
College tuition is a luxury, emergency medical care is not, and the Perry campaign is clearly flailing (Now in 6th place in Iowa and 5th place in Nevada) by getting the most open borders Governor in the country to pretend like he’s tough on illegal immigration.
Read again.
Jeff Emanuel (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:16PM EDT (link)That’s not ER care, which is required – and funded – at the federal level. There’s a difference, whether you care to see it (or are capable of seeing it) or not.
Additionally, on the tuition, huh?
JE
Where does it say Texas pays the tuition?
Tbone (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:34PM EDT (link)Where? You don’t even know what you are talking about.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
Texas doesn't pay the tuition, the students do
WILLisms (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:41PM EDT (link)The fiscal note on the Texas bill was ZERO dollars. As in, it doesn’t cost taxpayers anything. Indeed, if it were repealed, it would cost Texas colleges (mostly far-flung community colleges) tens of millions of dollars in lost tuition. We’re talking about a law that has been on the books for ten years and was passed nearly unanimously in the Texas legislature here.
www.WILLisms.com
Romney loves throwing out that $100,000 number
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:47PM EDT (link)Texas does not pay $100,000 to an illegal to go to college.
Romney is assuming that Texas can increase it’s college enrollment
by 16,000 students per year who would pay the full boat.
Not every student is enrolled at UT paying $48,000 or even
$24,000 per year. The majority of the students are enrolled at a Jr. college
or trade school so the $100,000 figure that Romney throws around is bogus.
The children of illegals have to follow even more stringent
requirements than other in-state eligible students.
They have to have good grades, graduate from a Texas High School (which the federal govt. mandates to the tune of $4.3 billion cost to Texas taxpayers, every year) and the ability to pay the in-state tuition to get in the college.
If you want to talk about magnets – chew on this for awhile:
The Burden of Plyler v. Doe
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
People can't seem to get it out of their head that Texas DOES NOT pay the tuition for Illegal Aliens T Bone
Michael Dugas (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 4:21PM EDT (link)The children of Illegals have to meet a whole list of requirements first in order to be eligible to PAY the in state tuition costs themselves. Everyone seems to have it burned into their noggins that Texas is footing the bill and they are not.
The student has to be registered on the path of citizenship, have graduated from a Texas High School, lived in Texas 3+ yrs etc etc etc and then they can pay the in state tuition costs. Though I believe they are not eligible for federal student aid there are in state scholarships available from some collages and churches if they meet the grade and other requirements.
Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
paragraph 4.
“…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”
Remember: A Citizen on the dole is a Liberal Vote at the Polls.
END ENTITLEMENTS!
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum !
Thank you M. Dugas
Scope (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 4:51PM EDT (link)Just the way ribeye compares the Mass. state costs for healthcare for the illegals, ribeye clearly is trying to say that the state of Texas is paying the college tuition for the illegals. When streiff asked for proof, it is clear that ribeye cannot provide it, as the state of Texas does not pay that tuition, the student does. His argument is either uninformed, or deceitful, or both.
Oh my. $100,000? Really?
rickperryreport Monday, October 24th at 10:12PM EDT (link)I’m an Aggie, legal, non-alien. And even if MY kids had to pay $100,000 extra to get a degree at Texas A&M I’d tell them no way. It ain’t worth it. It doesn’t cost an extra $100,000 for anyone, either.
Mitt Romney leveled a ridiculous charge. My Aggie brother Rick Perry didn’t do himself any favors in responding. He should have just said, it’s not a subsidy. Period. That’s it. Not heartless, not this. Not that
There is a 2007 legislative study that says that if the law was repealed, Texas state universities and junior/community colleges will lose $3 million per year in revenue. In subsequent interviews Perry has stated the loss today is in the 10s of millions. That’s because even illegals know it’s not worth it if you’re paying out-of-state rates. Hell, it’s barely worth it with in-state tuition.
I grew tired of defending this via typing. I can’t type worth a crap. So all the facts, downloads, links to the sources are here, if you ever need to argue with fools* about Texas in-state tuition. Click here: http://rickperryreport.com/faq/rick-perry-illegal-immigration/rick-perrys-dream-act
Gig ‘em Rick Perry 2012!
Joe Hyde
Rick Perry Report
http://rickperryreport.com/
*Mitt Romney fans
Ribeye, where are you getting your figures?
politicalgal1 Monday, October 24th at 1:38PM EDT (link)Sounds like your $100,000 per illegal is coming from the Romney camp of propaganda. The majority of the 1% of illegal children taking advantage of paying their own tuition since the inception of the 10-year old legislation are enrolled in community college and technical schools. Even OUT-OF-STATE tuition for many of these community colleges is less than $3,000 per year.
For your enlightenment:
http://collegestats.org/colleges/texas/lowest-outofstate-cost
Convoluted reasoning
retire05 Monday, October 24th at 1:47PM EDT (link)How many in-state students pay $25K/yr for tuition? Most kids do not attend the Texas premier universities, University of Texas and Texas A & M. They attend community colleges due to the extremely reduced cost.
And even if a kid, whose parents are illegals, manages to graduate from a Texas high school, that is no guarantee they will gain entrance into any state university, without having been in the top 10% of their graduating class.
I am more bothered by the fact that UT gives racial preferences, which would bump out a white kid with high grades in preference to a black kid with lower grades.
You also seem to think that medical care is a right. It is not. It is a service that you use our monetary system to purchase from those qualified to give that service. It is no different than you buying a tooth brush.
retire05
ribeye
streiff (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:44PM EDT (link)we all pimp candidates. It is what we are about. What has me concerned is your reckless disregard for the truth.
It is now 2:30pm Eastern. You have until 6pm Eastern to provide proof of the state of Texas providing tuition for illegal aliens to the tune of $100K per year or your privilege of post here is revoked.
To be clear, your word isn’t enough. I want budgetary data.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
Thanks streiff. The 6pm time frame gives us
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 3:32PM EDT (link)enough time to plan a going away party.
Aren't you being a *bit* hardnosed?
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 3:35PM EDT (link)The $100K figure is just repeating what Romney said in the debates. In the spirit of being helpful: To meet the above posted proof, all he need is two examples to meet the burden of “Texas providing tuition for illegal aliens to the tune of $100K per year”. Perhaps he should have said *potentially $100K per student*.
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
UT Austin Tuition Tables
spinoneone Monday, October 24th at 4:07PM EDT (link)are here. They vary by college/department/degree. Fees for professional/graduate/law degrees are higher, both in and out of state.
http://www.utexas.edu/business/accounting/pubs/tf_undergrad_fall11.pdf
you think that's an excuse
streiff (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 4:23PM EDT (link)actually what he needs is what I require of him: budget data showing this expense. As no one in spends $100K/year on a Texas public university I’m pretty confident that no proof is forthcoming.
A degree of honesty is the price of doing business here. Parroting bizarre and stupid statements uttered by a politician in rut is not a defense. Unless you want the same deal as ribeye, I’d recommend you move along.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
I think Romney gets Harvard and other ivy league college tuition expense
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 4:38PM EDT (link)confused with what Texas students pay.
No need to worry. If Obama is re-elected or Romney is elected -
Taxes will go up to the point where almost any college education
will become unaffordable and the unemployment rate will skyrocket,
so having a college diploma and $7 will buy you a latte at Starbucks.
Maybe it’s time to start a lawn service staffed by MBA’s from Harvard?
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Turned my back on the South
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 6:32PM EDT (link)Streiff, maybe my neighbors in Cambridge are right about mean spirited conservatives! I am here to gauge if conservatism is really something I want to stick with. If you want to drive people off, be my guest. I know the South isn’t a big tent, maybe conservatives aren’t either. I guess you want to chase off someone that leans towards Perry because he can get the Latino vote without giving illegals a path to citizenship, but considers Romney a close second. No one running is perfect. Venom doesn’t advance the movement. You obvious like power over people with your ultimatums. The Democrats are looking better all the time!
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
I am here to carry on a lonely
streiff (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 6:42PM EDT (link)one-man fight for truth and against douchebaggery of all political stripes. It’s up to you to decide which side you are on.
“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”
And Cambridge is representative of a "big tent"?
retire05 Monday, October 24th at 6:51PM EDT (link)Please, spare me the spin. The South at least has blue dogs, hard core liberals, libertarians and conservative Republicans. The South is not one big, monolithic voting bloc.
What the South does suffer from is northern elistism that judges anyone with a Southern accent to be no smarter than the tree swingers.
retire05
tailfins- Do you want some cheese and crackers with that whine
Scope (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 6:59PM EDT (link)I am sick of people threatening to vote Democrat if their guy doesn’t get the nomination. It has nothing to do with streiff, RedState, or the members as to what you will ultimately do with your vote. Threatening to vote Democrat isn’t the way to win friends or support from those that don’t live in the enemy camp.
I don't have a "guy"
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 7:49PM EDT (link)I voted for Reagan, campaigned for Buchanan, and was a card carrying member of the Moral Majority. I have lived in or near the South most of my life. This recession has revealed what people are really made of. All I know is that my recession ended in Massachusetts this year. If you are willing to not judge people for being gay, there are some darn nice and helpful people associated with Harvard University. All I ask is you not to belittle people. If I do decide to drive up to NH and campaign for Perry, who wants to be around cranky people? What an election saving the country boils down to this: Has our society become so uncivil and dishonest that it doesn’t matter who wins? The temptation is to focus on Information Technology and lose interest in elections.
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
Since the Democrats are looking better to you,
gekster (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 7:59PM EDT (link)do us a favor and go ahead and jump.
To even toy with the idea shows there is not much
conservatism in you to begin with.
You won’t be missed.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
tailfins- I have no idea what you said
Scope (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 8:35PM EDT (link)I wasn’t aware that there was a group that gave out cards for members of the “Moral Majority”? Who is that?
You say that your recession ended in Mass. this year. How? What changed in Mass. that ended your recession?
You say that I have judged people for being gay, and somehow bring Harvard into the discussion? Where and how do you go from point A to point Z? I could care less about Havud, and I have never ever connected gays to Havud. Are you?
With respect to your comment, where and how have I belittled people?
You are giving off some real hints, but, you have posted nothing more than riddles that maybe you, or your like minded might understand, but I have no clue as to what you are saying.
Are you saying that you are gay, you work at Harvud, and that I have been unfair to you?
Experience contradicting ideology
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 9:08PM EDT (link)I’m not gay, but I do work for Harvard. I owe my livelihood to an IT team with a heavy representation of gays. It was Streiff that I thought was belittling people. However, it is a request not to beat people over the head for their opinion. It’s funny how Limbaugh and Hannity make sense. However approaching fundamentalist churches and being looked down their nose when you’re down on your luck and getting just the opposite from the folks at Harvard makes me think.
And yes, Falwell did send out membership cards to dues paying members of the Moral Majority. I also think that government spending hurts our nation’s quality of life. However, lying about cutting spending is worse than telling the truth about increasing spending. An honest society thrives on conservatism. A corrupt society needs strict control and is incapable of functioning under freedom. I just don’t know which the US is at this point. I think God called Jerry Falwell home to spare him the pain of watching our society decline into one not deserving freedom.
The people I work with know I’m a Republican and don’t hassle me about it. They have absolutely earned my respect. If people who eat lunch under a Che Guevara portrait can respect a Republican, certainly people here can respect those who support another candidate in GOP primary.
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
If the Democrats look good to you, goodbye.
Tbone (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 7:17PM EDT (link)If you you want to run with bums, scums, perverts, Marxists, America haters, economic illiterates, union thugs, welfare queens and dead people, vote Democrat.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
wow, just wow,
kyle8 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 7:39PM EDT (link)An insult at conservatives, redstate, and southerners all at the same time!
Yah you probably do need to vote Democrat, then you can fit in with the high society of Cambridge, Wouldn’t want to be associated with mouth-breathers, hicks, and people who don’t have a (gasp) open mind!
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Romney is stronger than Perry on illegal immagration
goat Monday, October 24th at 12:16PM EDT (link)Any person, illegal or not, can walk into any public hospital in ANY state and get care.
So how does that make Romney stronger on immigration than Perry.
gekster (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:23PM EDT (link)How does what you posted show that.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Five Points
domingos Monday, October 24th at 12:32PM EDT (link)2) Pioneered a program with ICE to let state cops enforce immigration laws.
3) Advocated and implemented English immersion in schools.
4) Rejected attempts to grant driving privileges to illegals.
5) Supports a strong border, including fences.
Perry supporters can go down this road, but they will lose. The immigration issue hurts Perry. Just like the Las Vegas debate, this will backfire.
Hi! I’m a moby called fredericbastiat!
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/08/10/ken-buck-wins/#comment-78465
domingos.. a Perry comparison to your Romney
onemovoter (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:27PM EDT (link)1) Funding for Tx colleges are different than Mass. Also if there was a large illegal problem in Mass, there would have been a swell of support for it and Romney would have signed off on it.
2) Signed this EO in the last months of this term in office and knew it wasn’t going to be implemented. This was known as a political stunt to say he did so.
3)This law passed in 2002, a year BEFORE Romney was elected.
4) Perry actually signed a law this last legislative year that banned illegals from getting any drivers licenses. It is still possible to do so in Mass.
5) Perry supports both strategic and troops on the border. Perry actually knows what it will take to secure the border through Federal action. Perry knows that fencing will have to go through taking of private land from ranchers. Lawsuits will ensue. Fencing will block ranchers from water sources. Fencing will also put parts of cities and towns on the wrong side of the border as has already happened.
Perry is actually in a better position with experience to deal with immigration than Romney is.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.”- Benjamin Franklin
“I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”- Will Rogers
Medical help for illegal immigrants could haunt Mitt Romney
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:29PM EDT (link)Medical help for illegal immigrants could haunt Mitt Romney
Hmmmmmm, maybe Mitt does understand illegal immigrants???
After all, his own father was born in Mexico, maybe Mitt does have a heart?
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Goat,
retire05 Monday, October 24th at 1:49PM EDT (link)we are not talking about emergency care. Romneycare provides medical insurance for illegals, to be used at doctor’s offices and clinic.
Learn the difference.
retire05
Romney spins like a top
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:18PM EDT (link)Romney blames successor for illegal immigrant health care
Too bad it was Romney who pushed for Romneycare to make it easier for liberal Gov. Deval Patrick to make getting access to additional healthcare in Massachusetts for illegal immigrants easier. I guess that is why Obama’s
aunt and uncle live in Massachusetts.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
In Texas and every other state,
texas214 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:17PM EDT (link)Each state is required to offer services to those in need. Additionally the hypocratic oath requires doctors to never turn down patients (legal or illeagal) in need of emergency treatment.
You are conflating care with cost.
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:44PM EDT (link)Yes, any ER is required to treat you and if you have insurance that is how it will be payed for.
What the MA law implies is that illegal immigrants will be treated for FREE or at a reduced cost. Who is covering the cost of that care? Someone certainly is, and it appears that is the government.
The question is not whether or not they should be treated, that is settled law. The question surrounds the payer source, which in this case appears to be the government. That is the problem.
Big difference here.
WILLisms (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:48PM EDT (link)The Romneycare provision offers special benefits to illegals that citizens do not get. The Texas tuition law is just a way to treat all people equal under the law. Texas resident high school grads who have lived in the state for 3 or more years get resident tuition like anyone else.
www.WILLisms.com
I must be missing some huge, then.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:50PM EDT (link)Since American citizens and LPRs outside of Texas have to pay higher tuition than in-state illegals, I do see that as discriminatory. They very well may exist, but what special benefits would an illegal in Massachusetts get that a citizen or LPR of the state not get?
Where are all the people that are clamoring to pay to go to Texas colleges?
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:12PM EDT (link)Because they don’t exist.
By your logic then I should be able
to send my son’s to Yale and pay in-state tuition
even if we have never been to New Haven, Connecticut?
You will have to bring up your concerns
with the Supreme Court.
In-state tuition for illegal immigrants survives, Supreme Court declines case
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
I was not speaking about the TX in-state tuition
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:03PM EDT (link)rate, but rather pointing out the false assumption thst the issue is about whether or not to provide care in the ER to illegals.
The poster above seemed to think that all MA law was doing was following current federal law. This is incorrect, because in addition to providing treatment, they are also somehow subsidzing the cost as well.
The issue is the payer source in MA for the healthcare, not the providing of care.
Gotcha, thanks.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:09PM EDT (link)nt
How come this never comes up at the debates?
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:18PM EDT (link)This bill will help protect the American people. This bill will make our borders more secure. It is an important step toward immigration reform.”
- President George W. Bush, 10/26/06
The Secure Fence Act of 2006
Maybe this is why Rick Perry defeated Kay Bailey Hutchison?
Kay Bailey Hutchison, Dems scale back border fence
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Non-Emergency Treatment--No Three Year Waiting Period
quill67 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:22PM EDT (link)So it sounds like in Mass. Illegal immigrants can get non-emergence care. At least in Texas to get reduced tuition, an immigrant had to prove they lived there for 3 years.
Come To Mass. and get not only emergency care but free medical at any hospital. Of course, Mass. has not been adding many jobs so I’m sure the budget impact and ‘magnet effect’ is very small.
I've pointed out before Moe thai I don't view you as a squish...just misguided on the immigrant issue heh
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:42PM EDT (link)As for this article…devastating to the chief hypocrite currently running for the Republican Nomination.
This needs to be addressed as item number one for any and all nominee’s trying to derail the “Romney is the inevitable Republican Nominee” train.
Bravo!!!!!!
Encore!!!!
Amen!
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:46PM EDT (link)I will take a program that provides in-state tuition rates over a government subsidized health-care program for illegals any day of the week.
The former is a hand-up, the latter is a handout.
While both Romney and Perry have miserable records on this issue,
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:46PM EDT (link)in-state tuition for illegal aliens strikes me as the more offensive because it discriminates against United States citizens and lawful permanent residents who have to pay higher attention whereas someone in the country illegally does not. The Massachusetts health care pertains only to citizens and illegals within the state. If there is some way it discriminates against citizens and lawful permanent residents it isn’t discernible.
Now, from a strict hypocrisy standpoint, there is no doubt this dings Romney. From a straight public policy perspective, though, I find the tuition issue more repulsive than the health care one…unless I am mistaken,as I wrote above, and the availabilty of Mass Care to illegals somehow discriminates against citizens and LPR’s.
Back up and look at the comment I posted
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:50PM EDT (link)Romney loves throwing out that $100,000 number
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
You make a good point, although I still find
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:54PM EDT (link)the discriminatory aspect of charging higher tuition to out-of-state citizens and LPRs more troublesome.
This isn’t some defense of Romeny, either, because when it comes to rank hypocrisy he wins hands down. I just don’t see the equivalence on the aspect that bothers me.
You should inform yourself before posting.
gekster (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:58PM EDT (link)Instate tuition is granted to any US citizen who has lived in Texas for one year, whereas Illigals have to have lived in Texas for three years, must have graduated from a Texas high school, must pass the entrance exam, and MUST pay thier own way.
They also have to apply for US citizenship.
Are you going to fault the kids because thier parents dragged them acros the border.
What of the kids who have been in Texas from the ages of 10 on down,
and know no other place as home.
And it is a stated fact that only 1% of collage students are illegals.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
I guess I have no heart.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:01PM EDT (link)This doesn’t even address the issue I raised. The bottom line is this law discriminates against U.S. citizens and LPR’s from other states in favor of people in the country illegally even with these guidelines. There is no way around it.
spanishirish
retire05 Monday, October 24th at 1:07PM EDT (link)you are actually WRONG. Since the requirements for the children of illegals (may I remind you that 77% of those children are born here?) is stricter than those kids who are from other states. Three years in a Texas highschool where they graduated, in leiu of 12 contigious months with no Texas high school graduation requirement.
And why are you not screaming about the 12 other states that give in-state tuition to the kids of illegals, many with less restrictions that Texas places?
retire05
I wouldn't say that of you.
gekster (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:13PM EDT (link)Like I said, just misinformed.
And it does not discriminate.
If you are from Texas, and go to collage in another state, you have to pay more.
How many say that if you live for one year in the state, you qualify for instate tuition.
and how many of those kids stood at the border and said to thier prents,
“I won’t go with you Dad, you will be breaking American laws”.
So I will ask of you, just what do you do with them, some who have lived in Texas
the majority of thier lives and know no other home, through no fault of thier own.
What do you do.
And one more thing, the Feds won’t let you deport them, and you are required by Federal law to educate them, k-12, and give them wellfare and medical.
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Obviously the federal law is paramount.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:26PM EDT (link)This goes beyond it.
I actually understand the Texas statute and the rationale behind it. My problem with it is that it represents a preferential treatment over someone in the country illegally over someone here legally from outside of the state.
spainishirish, try to answer this question if you can...
onemovoter (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:35PM EDT (link)Do you have to be a US citizen to go to any US College?
Do the states themselves have domicile standards that require US citizenship when applied to tuition rates?
I challenge anyone here at RS to answer either yes or no to these questions and then try to fit it in their beliefs of what immigration policy should be.
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain, and most fools do.”- Benjamin Franklin
“I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”- Will Rogers
Discriminates how so?
texastherepublic Monday, October 24th at 1:46PM EDT (link)Most of these students are born in Texas where US Law gives them
a birth certificate with United States written all over it. Until the government
decides to follow the 14th amendment the way it was written these are citizens
of the state of texas. Therefore your whole argument is awash in fantasy as I know of no state in the union who will give in-state tuition to a student who is not citizen of standing of that state.
Discriminates how so?
texastherepublic Monday, October 24th at 1:46PM EDT (link)Most of these students are born in Texas where US Law gives them
a birth certificate with United States written all over it. Until the government
decides to follow the 14th amendment the way it was written these are citizens
of the state of texas. Therefore your whole argument is awash in fantasy as I know of no state in the union who will give in-state tuition to a student who is not citizen of standing of that state.
I'll put my h8trd for illegals up against anybody's.
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 3:38PM EDT (link)I’m in the make it a felony and a $20,000 fine to hire one or provide housing for one.
That said, I’ll take the Texas solution in a heartbeat over what anybody else is doing. I wish we had a law like that here in Arizona.
Geeze, spanishirish
retire05 Monday, October 24th at 1:09PM EDT (link)The Texas law “pertains only to citizens and illegals within the state.”
Nice try. No cigar.
retire05
One question, do you think that ObamaCare
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:10PM EDT (link)should have included free or reduced healthcare for illegals? This was a hotly debated topic and one that even Obama shyed away from.
If your answer is no way, which I assume it is, then you should take great offense to that provision being in RomneyCare.
The difference is that in TX the taxpayers are NOT funding the education of these students to attend. They are simply being offered in-state tuition rates. In MA, the taxpayers are subsidizing health care for illegal immigrants. Once again, the issue is the payer source. All the MA law does, as in ObamaCare, is place more people on the government dole.
Kowalski
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:11PM EDT (link)That would be on “the government rolls.”
You are right, of course.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:19PM EDT (link)The difference is this Massachusetts insanity also is available to citizens of that state, so there is no disparate treatment between citizens and those here illegally. No doubt it is wrong.
Again, as I wrote above, when it comes to rank hypocrisy on this issue as well as most everything else, Romney is without equal. This narrow issue just ticks me off because it gives a preference to someone in the country illegally.
Discriminates?
poorredman Monday, October 24th at 1:11PM EDT (link)How is a 3 year resident requirement for a non-citizen living in Texas more favorable than the 1 year requirement for non-Texan citizens?
Because you think growing up in Oklahoma or anywhere else in the nation gives you a phantom “right” to paying the same as someone that grows up in Texas?
But, as a good Texan, I’ll try to make you feel better. Like alot of people, you want in-state tuition now as an outsider. So how about we give you an option: 1) wait until 1yr has passed of living in our great state or 2)show the state receipts of spending $40,560 in our state and we’ll grant you the in-state rate.
Avg Home Price in TX: $169,000
Max education component of property tax: 1.5%
Annual contribution to TX education: $2535 (if you owned property)
State sales tax: 6.25%
Equivalent annual spending to match property owner: $40,560
No, I simply find the discrimination offensive.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:15PM EDT (link)Because when out-of-state citizens pay higher tuition than people in the country illegally, it is a problem. That’s not to say higher tuition should not be paid by both non-citizens and non-Texas residents.
Apples and oranges.
Except the illegal in TX pays taxes that the legal out of state resident doesn't.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:23PM EDT (link)Why should illegals be subsidizing tuition for an non Texas resident?
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Because "illegal".
Loren Heal (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:28PM EDT (link).
–
Join the Concord Project, and follow @lheal, if you dare.
Because "Federal" not "State". Try again.
acat (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:30PM EDT (link)…
——
Caveat Suffragator
Weak.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:35PM EDT (link)You are usually much more insightful and intelligent than this Loren. Disappointing.
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
I assume Texas colleges and univeristies accept federal money.
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:31PM EDT (link)Which raises the question of why should non-Texas citizens pay taxes to fund institutions that give tuition breaks to people in the country illegally.
This isn’t a hill I’m prepared to die on. I’ll take this up after the primary in a more bot-free atmosphere.
Yes, clearly that green color in my name makes me a bot.
Aaron Gardner (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 1:33PM EDT (link)nt
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
“We’d be much better off if We The People had desired small government enough to keep it.” acat
Follow @Aaron_RS
Because "Court system".
acat (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:00PM EDT (link)Hint. Why are all 50 states required to give a K-12 education to illegals?
Mew
——
Caveat Suffragator
spainishirish, You assume wrong
politicalgal1 Monday, October 24th at 2:26PM EDT (link)Texas universities financed by state sales tax revenues.
Please enlighten us about "federal money" that goes
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 3:43PM EDT (link)to “tuition breaks” for illegals.
And I’ll save you the trouble on student loans, you’ve gotta have a social security number to get one. And, if you’re classified as a “dependent” by the DoE – under 24, unmarried, no kids – your parents need a SSN as well.
Do the SSN's have to be valid
bk (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 5:02PM EDT (link)and actually assigned to the person? That seems pretty unfair.
Yep. And they actually check 'em.
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 7:00PM EDT (link)nt…
A circumstance CAUSED by Federal gov't
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 1:24PM EDT (link)Doesn’t this in-state tuition only for those who have APPLIED for citizenship? If the application process concluded quickly, the Texas law allowing in-state tuition would be moot.
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
No, you fail to grasp why there is an in-state rate
poorredman Monday, October 24th at 1:28PM EDT (link)Also, you should try looking into protected classes… residency is not one of them.
Spainishirish, you are paying for Massachusetts
politicalgal1 Monday, October 24th at 2:22PM EDT (link)through your federal taxes being used for Medicaid. RomneyCare depends heavily on federal medicaid dollars. Texas has no income taxes. The universities and community colleges are funded with sales taxes which legals and illegals pay.
If someone who lives in another state wants in-state tuition from Texas, have them move and live there for 3 years. They will most likely be able to get a job and save enough money to pay for their in-state tuition while waiting out the 3-year wait period.
politicalgal1, it's only 1 year for US citizens. nt
gekster (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:35PM EDT (link)nt
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
Well, you do not live in Texas, so your opinion
sunshinek67 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 9:02PM EDT (link)is null and void. This legislation passed overwhelmingly in favor, veto proof. Texans did not ask spainishirish what they though about it 11 years ago when it became law. If you have a problem with illegals crossing our border, petition the Federal Government to do more.
I would suspect that your mindless drool was submitted to redstate thousands of miles away from this border furthering your lack of credibility on the issue~
To kowlaski:
spainishirish (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 12:47PM EDT (link)Citizens and LPRs outside of Texas, that is.
Just as a not-so-minor clarification
clintonformccain Monday, October 24th at 12:52PM EDT (link)In-state tuition is not a “discount”. In-state tuition is the standard tuition charged at public universities in the United States. Out-of-state is a surcharge paid by a miniscule percentage of attendees.
Even at the flagship national university, the University of Texas Austin, only 4.6% of students are from out of state accoring to the most recent Fall 2010 Common Data Set filing (page 14 of the PDF). Looking at the university as a whole, the percentage of out-of-state would be even lower. Essentially, we are talking about a non-issue from a bugetary standpoint.
It makes for a good “red-meat” soundbyte talking point, but it really is insignificant.
Also being overlooked
bk (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 5:00PM EDT (link)If you’re not in the top 10% of your high school graduating class, your chances of getting into UT are very slim (not counting athletes of course). It’s pretty close to the same at Texas A&M, and several other large state schools are not that far behind.
Smaller state schools are obviously easier to get into, but it’s not like there are a thousand illegal immigrants who just “decide” to attend UT or A&M and get whisked right in.
Less than 1000 of 16000 illegals at A&M or UT
rickperryreport Monday, October 24th at 10:14PM EDT (link)for 2011. Source Dallasnews.com via http://rickperryreport.com/faq/rick-perry-illegal-immigration/rick-perrys-dream-act
The rest are at Houston Community College or Southwest Texas State Junior College or .. you get the picture.
Illegal oriented clinic
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 1:20PM EDT (link)There is a clinic:
Framingham Community Health Center
19 Concord Street
Framingham, MA
Walk by there. It’s a place where illegals commonly go to for ROUTINE healthcare. There’s nothing emergency about it. Does this type of clinic exist in other states? Which law relates to its operation? Inquiring minds want to know.
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
Romney was for RomneyCare before being against RomneyCare
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:43PM EDT (link)Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
What is the problem here?
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 2:46PM EDT (link)Healthcare is provided to illegal aliens in Massachusetts in ERs (as in every other state) regardless.
Sigh.
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 2:57PM EDT (link)The question is NOT whether or not to treat illegal immigrants. By law, everyone who comes to an ER is treated, regardless of their citizenship status.
The issue is the payer source. For example, in my state if an illegal immigrant goes to the ER he/she is treated and he/she is billed for the cost of treatment. The government does not pay for his/her medical care.
Not so in MA, thanks to RomneyCare. Illegal immigrants’ health care costs are being subsidized by the government, and subsequently the tax payer.
This is the issue.
Billed for the cost of treatment?
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 3:31PM EDT (link)So what? It’s still essentially free. Do you think that bill is ever paid?
Write-off
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 3:39PM EDT (link)Might I add that these bills that aren’t paid are eventually filed as tax write-offs by the hospital. So the Federal government for all intents and purposes picks up the tab.
Most immigrant patients have a better record of paying their bills than low-income Americans do
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 4:43PM EDT (link)Most immigrant patients have jobs and pay taxes, through paycheck deductions or property taxes included in their rent, administrators at the Dallas and Fort Worth hospitals said. At both institutions, they have a better record of paying their bills than low-income Americans do, the administrators said.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Immigrant patients
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 4:58PM EDT (link)The article states that most “immigrant” patients have a job, pay their taxes, and pay their medical bills better than “non-immigrantss”.
Now with respect to “illegal” immigrants, I didn’t really see much specific.
Aside from that
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 5:06PM EDT (link)Aside from that, the point stands that if illegal aliens want free healthcare in Massachusetts, they can get it with or without Romneycare.
“Gov. Romney OKd healthcare for illegal immigrants”
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 5:13PM EDT (link)“Gov. Romney OKd healthcare for illegal immigrants”
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Did you read and comprehend the whole article?
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 5:07PM EDT (link)While Texas border hospitals often get “anchor babies” children of Mexican women who dart across the border to give birth to an American citizen most illegal immigrantswho go to major hospitals in Texas can show that they have been living here for years, said Ernie Schmid, policy director at the Texas Hospital Association. Many immigrant families have mixed status; often a patient with no documents has a spouse or children who are legal.
Most immigrant patients have jobs and pay taxes, through paycheck deductions or property taxes included in their rent, administrators at the Dallas and Fort Worth hospitals said. At both institutions, they have a better record of paying their bills than low-income Americans do, the administrators said.
The largest group of illegal immigrant patients is pregnant women, hospital figures show. Contrary to popular belief here, their care is not paid for through local taxes. Under a 2002 amendment to federal regulations, the births are covered by federal taxes through Medicaid because their children automatically become American citizens.
These cases are not affected by new regulations that went into effect on July 1 2006 requiring Medicaid patients to provide proof of citizenship, Texas health officials said. They said they believed that only small numbers of illegal immigrants had received other Medicaid benefits.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
You are missing the point.
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 5:22PM EDT (link)Is it true or false that an illegal alien can get free healthcare in Massachusetts in lieu of Romneycare?
The answer is: TRUE
Please correct me if I am wrong, but before Romneycare, an illegal alien could go to an ER and receive treatment. Then they could be billed for. Then if that bill was not paid, the hospital could claim this as a tax write-off.
If I am wrong in what I said above, by all means let me know.
So you think it is better for taxpayers to
runner12 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 11:47PM EDT (link)directly subsidize healthcare for illegal immigrants? A la RomneyCare/ObamaCare? As to the hospitals, most of them are willing to work with patients on a payment system. I can guarantee you they want the money over the tax write-offs.
Not generally
tailfins1959 Monday, October 24th at 3:23PM EDT (link)If you see my earlier post, Mass. has clinics oriented towards illegal aliens that have sliding scale fees. Would you care to guess how much annual income they declare when being evaluated for which fee schedule gets used?
You have the right to quit Toxic People. (They’re contagious.) ~Dr. SunWolf
Details
WILLisms (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 3:41PM EDT (link)1. Federal law under EMTALA only requires hospitals to pay for emergency care. It doesn’t require community health clinics to offer routine care. Romney’s Free Care pays for that rountine care.
2. The State of TX doesn’t have a similar program. We reimburse hospitals for care provided under EMTALA. That is all.
3. TX medicaid doesn’t apply to illegal immigrants. MA Medicaid has several program that illegal immigrants qualify for, though those were done before Romney.
Again, Romney’s Free Care pays for more than emergency room care. It pays for routine care which is not required by Federal law.
The argument that diverting illegals to clinics this has saved money for MA is also wrong. Any savings realized by the changes in Romneycare are due to legal residents being mandated to pay for insurance. Also the cost to the state for Free Care is up beyond 400 million dollars. Texas’ tuition system doesn’t cost state taxpayers anything.
www.WILLisms.com
Poor people go to the ER for...
reggie182 Monday, October 24th at 5:35PM EDT (link)non-ermergencies.
Bills for those services if unpaid become federal tax write-offs filed by the hospitals.
Of course they do because Federal Law states
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 6:05PM EDT (link)That they must treat EVERYONE.
Romney THOUGHT he was getting to the heart of the problem.
Big Government Solutions WILL ALWAYS COST MORE.
How about we work on getting rid of Federal Laws that mandate
what health providers, state educators & employers do?
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Kowalski - on ER's
izoneguy (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 6:11PM EDT (link)In 2002 I was working in my attic.
I had a problem with one eye that was giving me blurry vision.
I reached for a beam to come down the ladder and missed and
fell sideways on the concrete floor. I was in a lot of pain
and my wife rushed me to the ER. I waited in a room for
almost 3 hours before a doctor even looked in the room….
After another hour I was so pissed I got up and walked out.
I figured if I had not passed out by then I was probably
going to live. My wife was objecting so I said she could
stay and call me when the doctor showed up.
I do not have any lasting effects from that fall except
an aversion to the ER.
Those who had once simpered: “I don’t want to destroy the rich, I only want to seize a little of their surplus to help the poor, just a little, they’ll never miss it!” – then, later, had snapped: “The tycoons can stand being squeezed; they’ve amassed enough to last them for three generations” – then, later, had yelled: “Why should the people suffer while businessmen have reserves to last a year?” – now were screaming: “Why should we starve while some people have reserves to last a week?” – Atlas Shrugged
Purpose Is Key
sethellis Monday, October 24th at 8:49PM EDT (link)Something that bothers me about this line of attack is the complete lack of details. None of the commentatory I’ve seen even in the comments fully explains the law or it’s intent. I think the intent here is everything.
Romnneycare’s main intent was to give everyone the opportunity to obtain a private insurance plan. However, this doesn’t help the poor that can’t afford to buy their own insurance.
These patients have no choice but to visit the ER for their care, even if they could be treated for less cost at a clinic.. This creates an intense burden on emergency rooms.
Massachusetts realized that it was cheaper to simply pay for subsidized insurance. That way these patients can be treated at regular clinics. Emergency rooms can then be used for their intended purpose – emergencies.
There was not intention to appease or attract illegal immigrants. In order to relieve the burden the plan had to be available to all.
sethellis, the point is that Romney is a hypocrite who supported free healthcare for illegal alliens while using immigration as a wedge issue to attack his opponents...
californiagold Monday, October 24th at 11:53PM EDT (link)To make a long story short, Romney has no credibility on the issue of immigration.
Why is this a surprise that there would be some sort of controversy about Romneycare and illegals in the same equation?
sunshinek67 (Diary) Monday, October 24th at 10:37PM EDT (link)Romney had to do SOMETHING to take care of all those undocumented workers at the Sanctuary Mansion!
From the The Lowell Sun December 2006:
“WASHINGTON — Gov. Mitt Romney expressed support yesterday for an immigration program that places large numbers of illegal residents on the path toward citizenship, but criticized any form of “amnesty.”
Speaking to reporters after a speech on education reform, Romney also invited outgoing White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, a Holbrook native, to challenge Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., in midterm elections this fall.
Romney’s comments came as the Senate began heated debate on immigration reform. On Monday, the Judiciary Committee approved a controversial bill sponsored by Kennedy and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., that would make 11 million illegal immigrants eligible for citizenship.
“I don’t believe in amnesty,” Romney said, using a word voiced by Republicans to describe widespread forgiveness of illegal residency in the United States.
But at the same time, Romney said illegal immigrants should have a chance to obtain citizenship.
“I don’t believe in rounding up 11 million people and forcing them at gunpoint from our country,” Romney said. “With these 11 million people, let’s have them registered, know who they are. Those who’ve been arrested or convicted of crimes shouldn’t be here; those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship, as they would from their home country.” ”
So his arguments against Perry’s instate tuition, just like spainishirish, is null and void when you reconcile the Texas law with Romney’s own position prior to the 2008 campaign. Of course when he realized he had to court the conservative vote a little harder for this upcoming election, his rhetoric is acidic now against any form of amnesty. Conservatives do not trust this guy, never have and never will.
I don't see how any self respecting conservative could ever vote for Romney after this......
californiagold Monday, October 24th at 11:47PM EDT (link)In addition to Romney’s numerous flip flops on big issues, his support for mandated healthcare, his opposition to Reagan, and now this illegal alien situation, I don’t see how any self respecting conservative could ever vote for Mitt Romney.
The future of the country relies on the wisdom of republican primary voters and the choices they make in the coming three or four months. Hopefully a consensus candidate will emerge during that time who can defeat Romney and then Obama.
But I do...
brucetahoe Tuesday, October 25th at 12:38AM EDT (link)I really DO hate pro-amnesty squishes.
New Age Commandment
drfredc Tuesday, October 25th at 1:34AM EDT (link)Come folks, don’t lose sight of the forest for the trees. Yes, there are plenty of good hardworking folks who are in the US without proper working papers. And who’s mostly fueling that? Answer (after digging thru several layers of BS that includes misguided attitudes across the political spectrum) — This lack of a decent work visa system is largely the creation of Democrat Union types who don’t like the competition. To protect themselves, they stir all sorts of fires up to obsfuscate their position…
A lot of this immigration problem may become a lot clearer if one looks at it like having highways that can operate safely at 65 MPH, but the speed limit is 20 MPH. Who of a right mind wouldn’t end up breaking the speed limit laws? Not just on rare occasion, but CONSTANTLY. In current traffic citation circles, most of us if properly tracked, would have enough significant speed limit violation to put us in jail…
Well, this is what is happening to many good immigrant working folks. They come here to work, because there are so many good work opportunities in the US. And most of them most are decent hard working folks and families… Their ‘crime’ is basically wanting to go 65 when the immigration/working visa speed limit is 25 — or much less…
Oh yeah, they don’t pay taxes on income under the table… But who’s fault is that? They do pay sales taxes, lots of sales taxes… and that pays for this and that social marketplace benefit which they should be denied from — because they uh, what? They didn’t work hard and pay into these social marketplaces? Get real… Many of them paid a lot more taxes from their hard work earnings into these welfare programs than many citizen couch potato welfare queens and kings who do little more than vote for handout after handout.
I’m increasing sickened by those who aren’t willing to forgive their trespassers, just as I’m sickened by those who covet another’s wealth… Just how is all of this immigrant unforgiveness and coveting Class Warfare working out for everyone? IMHO, if you choose to follow the devil, don’t be surprised if you end up living in hell…
But I gather that the New Age Testament has a New Age Commandment that allows folks to pick and choose which of the original commandments they can choose to live by. So it’s OK to covet and not be forgiving… Just as long as you’re against abortion, all is good… How nice….
Always, Fred C