Herman Cain ’12 Iowa caucuses: Obama, 2008? Or Dean, 2004?

JSobieski

I know that Romney’s Iowa machine was formidable in 2008, but I don’t know much about Huckabee’s.

In the age of the Internet and social media, I am thinking that ground game is not as important as it once was. Time will tell.

citizenkh

Thus far it has seemed to depend strictly on rookies and volunteers from tea party groups. While I don’t know about Iowa, those who depended on their tea party draw in Louisiana, failed miserably last weekend, and particularly the Fair Taxers.

Not a single one made a runoff.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

…can’t give you a ride to the precinct station.

Seriously, this is the big blinking light for campaigns this year: you need a transportation infrastructure and a physical presence for GOTV. Especially in a caucus situation like Iowa’s.

JSobieski

Finding the location of tea party protests required folks to be connected with each other, and that seemed to work just fine.

I say these things not in an adversarial tone, and I fully acknowledge that in every election there are people who say this year is different, etc. Some times they are right, but most of the time they are wrong.

I think the tea party showed that our voters don’t need the kind of hand holding that the D voters need. I don’t doubt that it helps, but if a person is interested in caucsing for hours on a cold winter day I am skeptical that they needmuch assistance getting there.

Put another way, did Huckabee have much in terms of an organization?

paulplantowin

maybe his vans can give Herman’s people a ride. Just kidding. Sort of.

josephine

These pundits or bloggers or whatever they are called are formidable, that I know.
However, they are forgetting or discounting one thing.
Herman Cain is the soul of America. The people recognize this with just one glance. We are no longer ill informed. We lost our innocence with the election and rule of O’Bama. We are ready to elect Mr. Cain.
If he does not win the nomination, we will be ready to vote out O’Bama regardless of who is nominated. We mean business.

The political circle is failing in manipulating our thoughts. Hard as they may try.

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

.

tngal

His momentum has carried him to another galaxy. And he’s been doing it via your number example Moe. Just a “taking this country back -rah rah!” As his money came in he brought in more “seasoned” veterans and advisores.

There’s two monts to go. And more volunteers will jump in to help in Iowa. Cold Warrior told them to get involved. So their involved. I also suspect as more money flows in he’ll spend it where he needs to keep Iowa in play. Its all about the cash. Its possible one or two candidates may drop before this caucus. Where are their people going to go?

I know it seems disorganized. While the campaign should resemble “Remember The Titans”, at times it comes off like “Down Periscope” . But hey, they are underdog stories and so is he.
The more the media said “but he’ll never win”, they more people are going to prove the media wrong. If nothing else, just for spite.

Scope

campaigns arranging to give people rides to the caucuses is going to be a determining factor in who wins in Iowa. I am not familiar with Huckabees campaign strength in Iowa in 08, but I remember Huckabee had a hard time with fundraising. I would find it hard to believe that he had the funding to insure his supporters got to the caucuses. Rather, Huckabee had two things going for him with the Iowa voters. He fully supported Ethanol subsidies, and he was seen as the premier Evangelical, having been a Baptist minister.

I’ve often wondered with the Iowa conservatives what was of prime importance to them. Was it their religious faith first, or was it the jobs and government subsidies to/for the state for Ethanol production. With Huckabee, they had the best of both worlds.

This year is very different than the election in 08, just four years ago. The Tea Parties didn’t exist in the 08 election season. There were not so many calling for cutting spending, and balancing the budget in 08. That all started with the onslaught of out of control spending by the Obama admin. This year there was actually a move in Washington to cut the Ethanol subsidies. The Senate voted overwhelmingly to pass thst immediate cut to the ethanol industry, but didn’t make it through the House, I understand not because of the ethanol subsidy cut, but for some other procedural reason, or something. The Iowa Tea Parties have come out in favor of cutting ethanol subsidies.

The Iowa Reneawable Fuels Assoc. President, Walt Wendland, in fact has acknowledged that the subsidies are surely on the chopping block by the Republicans/conservatives, but wants the subsidies phased out rather than just cut. He has come out strongly against any GOP candidate that is calling for immediate cuts. I have to wonder if Pawlenty backed out of the race shortly after the Ames Straw Poll, where he didn’t fare very well. He came out strongly against Ethanol subsidies, despite the fact that he spent much time and money in the state leading up to the straw poll, and we considered a very strong evangelical.

To date, Romney was all in for ethanol subsidies, and stated such. Yet if you read the Geo. Will article, he goes into all of Romney’s various statements on ethanol subsidies, and you are left not knowing just where he stands. Romney is not a strong evangelical by most accounts. Gingrich is fully in favor of ethanol subsidies, and has stated as much.

Then you go to Bachmann who is surely a strong evangelical, but has had Tricky Ethanol Politics, where she has voted for and against ethanol and/or farm bills that included the mandates.

Santorum I believe is for phasing the ethanol subsidies out.

I’m not clear on Herman Cain’s position on ethanol subsidies. Back in June, in an interview with Mark Levin, Levin asked him if he favored ethanol subsidies. Cain replied- “I do not. I think we need to phase ethanol out. At the same time, find additional distribution for the corn product that we are burning to try to create fuel.” I have no idea what that means.

In an interview with John Stossel, he said that he was disappointed in Cain’s responses to the ethanol subsidies. Stossel asked Cain if he favored cutting ethanol subsidies, his response was- “Once you help the farmers get their products to market all over the world they won’t need subsidies and the free market principles will perform much better because then we should allow ethanol, methanol and all sources to compete in the marketplace.” It appears from Cain’s statements, that he is in favor of some type of government program, to help the ethanol farmers, until they don’t need subsidies any longer. ??? What government program is Cain in favor of to help the farmers, rather than allowing, as Stossel pointed out, the free market to control the fate of ethanol. They should sink or swim on their own.

Of course the Iowa Renewable Fuels Assoc. president is on the war path against Rick Perry, even though he is also a very strong evangelical. Perry, with his Energy Plan, stops subsidies to all energy producers, from the alternative producers to the fossile fuel producers.

In 08, Iowa voted for Obama. In 04, Iowa voted for W (who was a strong ethanol advocate), in 2000 Iowa voted for Gore. Iowa has not been Republican friendly, over the last few elections anyway. Will they stay with Obama who would fight to continue the taxpayer handouts, or will they recognize that the conservatives are poised to get our country back on it’s fiscal track? That’s the big question.

I really don’t think Cain has the funding or organization in Iowa, nor has he spent the time there meeting people and shaking their hands. At this late date, with something like 40 some days until the caucus, it would be difficult for him to get the organization that both Romney and Perry have already set up in the state. Both Romney and Perry have the funding to pick up the caucus goers in lomozines if they wanted to, including a full dinner menu ahead of the ride.

I don’t think giving someone a ride to the caucus will sway anyone’s vote one way or the other. If they want to have their voices heard, they can get their horse and sleighs ready to take them to the hundreds of different caucus locations.

onemovoter

But not that many people in the polls didn’t think Cain as the “soul of America” when he was polling at 5% for the longest time.

The group of conservatives that currently are paying attention have been jumping from candidate to candidate. The key is who a large group of the GOP conservative will settle down to right before the primaries start.

That is what I think Moe Lane is saying in this article. It boils down to who is organized and is able to get more votes.

Scope

the fact that there are articles out there talking about the Iowans being a little skittish about Cain because of his confusing abortion statements.

gator_hoo

Herman “Soul of America” Cain:

> Endorses wealth redistribution through “opportunity zones”

> Wants to implement a National Sales Tax AND a National VAT tax

> Has, after two weeks on the topic, had to for the fifth time “clarify” his abortion position and now is in favor of exemptions for life of the mother and rape and incest

> Supported TARP

> Has said that he wouldn’t fully oppose Obama if Perry is the nominee

> Speaks glowingly only of Mitt Romney, who 75% of the Republican Party rejects

> Has political instincts that tell him it is okay to negotiate with terrorists

> Has no record on which to rely on key issues

> Has so little interest in foreign policy that he says “I may not know who the president of Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan is.”

> Knows so little about the sitiuation in Israel that he was unfamiliar with the “right of return.”

> Has taken two different positions on the protection of marriage in the past two weeks (currently supports a federal amendment, but if abortion is any clue, this isn’t his final position on the issue)

Scope

I had never looked into Cain’s position on ethanol until it has come out that Perry is being villified in Iowa because of his non-support for ethanol subsidies. See my comment above about Cain’s position. He has made it clear that he wants the government to help the ethanol farmers, until we can phase out ethanol subsidies, but just what government help he wants the government involved in is very unclear. He says he is against ethanol subsidies, but then goes into some kind of confusing talk about the ethanol farmers stll getting some kind of government help. Is he pandering to the Iowa voters? It seems that way.

jackdaniels11

I worked on Bush’s Nevada GOTV operation in 2004. I was struck by how pointless it is to offer rides to people who have either already voted or who were able and willing to drive themselves. Maybe the Democrats need people to drive them to the precinct station but Republicans seem to get insulted by the suggestion that they need to be driven to the polls.

bzip

Could some explain to me why we should vote/support Cain? Could someone explain to me what makes Cain so much better than anyone else running for that matter?
Could someone please explain to me why we should accept someone without a record or experience in governing over someone with 10 years of experience and a strong record of being conservative?
I keep hoping to get answr to these questions but haven’t been able to.

Lets not forget Cain doesn’t seem to understand the 2nd amendment (gun control) where he seems to think it’s a states right issue:

http://youtu.be/Wmhu1QkRbqY

jackdaniels11

Just kidding. Sort of.

jackdaniels11

He had an army of homeschooling families and the evangelical right to GOTV in Iowa. Huck had very little money to spend. So the volunteer help was crucial. Without that help, Romney would have won in Iowa and we would probably have a different president today and the recession would be over.

But crying over spilled milk never solved anything. So, to answer your question, Huck’s ground game in 2008 was to use volunteer evangelicals to GOTV. Huck won in almost every county in Iowa in 2008.

bzip

I haven’t been able to truly figure out what Cain stands for on many issues. but I do know he doesn’t support auditing the fed:

Fed Audit Problem caught lying:
?Herman Cain, former Chairman and Member of the Board of Directors for the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, flippantly denies the need to Audit the Federal Reserve?
In His Own Words:

http://youtu.be/uiAkeFJXwUk

http://www.rightreality.wordpress.com andysmith

but it’s way too soon to predict either a victory or defeat. The time between now and when primaries/caucuses start can be a political eternity. I don’t discount the possibility of something happening that can put Cain back in single digits, as politics can be a pretty fluid game. See Rick Perry’s rise and fall from frontrunner status as an example.
Even though there’s a possibility that any candidate can be on top of the world one day then flat on their face the next day, whatever Cain has been doing is working, and I think it’s because everyday voters are tired of conventional politics. Wheter or not it will continue to work is one thing, but it’s hard to argue that Cain hasn’t been effective. If he’s able to poll well in the early primary states with this supposed lack of organization and money, I think it says something about his message he’s getting out with, and that maybe he’s not as inept at this campaigning thing as everyone thinks.
I think this is what’s frustrating to the other campaigns and supporters. The professionals like Perry, Romney, Bachmann, and Santorum should be walking all over this guy.
I’m fully prepared to vote for the GOP nominee if it’s Cain or Romney, or even Big Bird, but Cain has been the most effective candidate so far.

http://www.rightreality.wordpress.com andysmith

about:
Romney and Perry being career flip floppers, Romney’s faith, Perry’s debate performances, Gingrich’s marriage issues and cozying up with individual mandates and Nancy Pelosi on couches, Bachmann not being able to stay on track and answer questions, Santorum being irrelevant, and Ron Paul being Ron Paul.

bs61

Of the IA caucus!

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

It has 21 precincts. Who are their Cain people? Assuming that we see 1,800 or so people participating in the January caucus – reasonable; we managed 1,670 in 2008 – that’s about 86 people per precinct. Judging from the general record, 35% should be sufficient to get a win. That’s a target number of 30 per precinct. Who in Cain’s Jasper County organization is on target to get this? Who is not?

No, of course you don’t have the full answer, and you shouldn’t: most of that is proprietary. If I asked Perry and/or Romney’s people how far along they were, the best I could hope for [would be] a friendly like-we’re-going-to-tell-you-Moe chuckle and a sudden offering of access in order to change the subject*. But I know that somebody in either candidate’s Iowa organization is making those calculations; my question is, is someone in Cain’s?

If there is, great for Cain. If there isn’t, well, note the title.

Moe Lane

*Hmm.

http://www.FranBaker.com frankieb

I’m sorry, but I just can’t get all that excited about Cain. For all the reasons stated above. And for the fact that he speaks before he thinks, not once or twice, but continually. Anyway, I haven’t decided who to support but it won’t be Cain … unless he’s the nominee. Then it’s simply ABO for me.

btpull

So far Cain, Romney, and Gingrich are the only ones that have shown they are capable of going toe-to-toe with Obama.

For a former CEO and business leader such as Cain putting together an effective organization should not be an issue. Cain’s weakness is that he has to spends too much time clarifying his positions and explaining his answers. It seem it takes him three sentences to answer a question with the second and third sentence clarifying the first sentence.

Gingrich is full of big ideas and interesting positions, but has questionable leadership and organizational skills. Romney is really the only candidate that brings the full package to table – good debater, organized national campaign, and has both private and public executive leadership experience.

Romney has questionable conservative credentials, but conservative idealism is not going to win the election. As the Clinton campaign stated 20 years ago “It is the economy stupid”.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

…are very rough approximations based on a bunch of loose assumptions. The general question (“Who is taking those numbers seriously?”) is the important one.

bs61

You just choose to ignore his military service, his IT experience and his bad tasting God Fathers experience. George Washington had zero political experience and I am really tired of the elite in this country thinking that you must have political experience or be a Harvard Grad to run the country!

I’ll vote for whoever Karl Rove and Ann Coulter and Chris Christie oppose!

bzip

You mean the Cain Gaffe Machine, the Cain Gaffer that would be eaten alive by Obama and the dem liberal machine. No thanks.

You mean Cain the inexperienced guy who is going to raise taxes on the poor an everyone else, the Gaffer that is going to let the GITMO detainees go, you mean the Cain gaffer that is pro-choice or is that pro-life….seems like Cain is the least likely to be able to go against Obama.

retire05

according to Fox (who seems to be favorable toward Cain) Cain only had six campaign workers between Iowa and New Hampshire just last week. You can’t build a campaign team with six personnel.

In 2008, Romney had a lot of ground troops in Iowa, poured millions into the state, but did not have a physical presence there. Huckabee, on the other hand, had little money, fewer ground troops but he hit Iowa like it was Normandy Beach.

There are over 90 counties in Iowa, each one with a GOP county chapter chairman. And while the chairs are not allowed by GOP rules to endorse a candidate, the chair can give the candidate the names of the precinct chair who can be recruited for a particular candidate. It is up to the candidate to recruit those precinct chairs and to get those who will caucus for them. That is not easy to do when the candidate is ignoring the state, as Cain is, by travelling though the South.

Iowans want to meet the candidate personally. Rick Santorum knows this, and has basically moved to Iowa. He stated on Fox that after meeting with a group from a certain precinct last week, he signed on 150 people to caucus for him. That kind of retail politicing can, and has, paid off. It paid off for Huckabee who came from behind to defeat the favorite in 2008, who was Mitt Romney.

Cain also doesn’t have the funds to wage an all out blitz on Iowa. It is reported that he has collected slightly over $5 million, but he his blowing through that money as fast as he collects it. It was reported that he had slighly over $1 million remaining. That is not going to buy a lot of ads to reach those he hasn’t personally lobbied. Romney is loaded with money, although he also seems to be spending it quite rapidly, whereas Perry is being quite frugal with his funds, spending them on direct advertising that will reach the greatest number of Iowans. This is not unusal for Perry, as he has historically not spend a lot of money on yard signs, bumper sticker, etc, where the results warrant the cost, and waited until right before the elections to bombard the air waves with advertising.

Giving a ride to the caucus is a Democrat tradition that started in the South in black districts. It was because many of those people had no personal transportation and needed a ride. Republicans may provide rides, as Bachmann did for the Ames straw poll, hiring buses, but as a generality, Republicans find their own way.

Having less than 70 days to build a ground team, I am not sure Cain can do it. He may be convincing, he’s not a miracle worker.

bs61

about the Evangelical Iowans!

bs61

Too funny and me too.

I’m a Cain supporter too, I just love how he shakes up the establishment media and exposes them for the liberals that they are… I think that all of the analysts who say this is how the primary works are not with the current times, the internet and sites like these give us the real information. Not Fox, Not Rove, Not Krauthammer!

retire05

Cain worked for the military. Do not confuse that with wearing the uniform of the nation. It is not one and the same.

And you are wrong about Washington. I suggest you read the Indispensible Man, George Washinton. One of the hardest things with being the commander of the troops was having to deal with the politicians, and individual states, that were supposed to be funding the war. That required political finesse, something that Washington was in possession of. Washington was also the chair for the Constitutional Congress in Philadelphia.

Washington was a political leader, both during the Revolutionary War and afterward, before there was a Constitution.

lineholder

a degree of “noncompliance” to conventional wisdom within the realm of politics as to what does or does not define the success of a candidate seems to be a sore spot for a lot of political pundits at the moment.

It is serving him well for the time being to choose his own path to victory, Moe. Actually, in this kind of political environment, it could serve some of the other candidates well to exhibit a bit of being unconventional or nontraditional as well, i.e. “I may be a politician, but I’m not just another status quo politician”.

bs61

Regardless of who you support, Obama off prompter is a gaffe a minute! But the GOP, like McCain, won’t have the guts to put out a commercial on that!

windwaker24

George Washington served in the Virginia House of Burgesses for 16 years before the Revolutionary War.

Scope

There are some direct quotes in this article concerning Cain’s strategy in Iowa. Cain’s Iowa Chair. Steve Grubbs, said “The mechanics of this campaign are phones, social networking, mail and email– but that doesn’t get someone out of their home on a 0 degree Iowa night.” Grubbs also said “The advantage for Cain is he is so passionate and he is even more unorthodox than Obama was in 2008.”

That article was just printed a day ago, and it would seem that Cain’s Iowa Chair. is depending on the passions Cain ignites in the voters to get them out to vote for him in the cauci. I’m not quite sure how “passions” equal a GOTV effort. In other words, Cain is depending on social networking.

Even though a new Iowa poll came out today showing Cain at the top with Romney coming in second, and Bachmann coming in fourth, I can’t write off the fact that those three (Paul is in 3rd and has his very own special unique set of supporters) all either outright support ethanol subsidies, or in Cain’s case, he still wants to do some kind of government program to help the farmers before banning any ethanol subsidies outright. As I wondered below, what is the priority in Iowa, religious strength, or keeping the ethanol jobs and government money coming into Iowa. I will definitely go with the ethanol subsidies. In that case, I agree Iowa has the most perfect, and ultimate scam going, it prioritizes Ethanol, despite conservative opposition that is growing.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

I’m a patient man. Don’t see what it proves to argue about it now. many candidates had great organizations and came in 4th or worse in Iowa. Time will tell what strategy works this time.

Scope

Being a Perry supporter, I have acknowledged many times that Perry is not perfect. It is important to me as a voter that someone have a record of electability, conservative governance, and a grasp on how politics works between the two warring parties. I think Cain has some very appealing qualities, but lacks the main ingredient I require in supporting someone, a record in governing. With Cain I have to rely on his words and promises, some of which I am not even clear about. The WH is not the venue for training wheels. We already see that with Obama.

btpull

According to published IRS data the average effective tax rate combining the Federal income and payroll taxes (which would be eliminated under the Cain plan) is roughly 20%. Under the Cain plan your effective Federal tax rate will be between 9% and 18% depending on your savings and consumption habits as well how much of your income goes to non-taxable items such as a mortgage payment.

The beauty of the Cain plain is that you keep 91% of your next raise, promotion, bonus, etc. after Federal taxes. Currently, these items are taxed at your highest marginal tax rate so 1/3 to 1/2 of that raise or bonuses goes to the Federal Government. The Cain plan will truly let people save and build wealth over time.

gator_hoo

Ok, so you don’t need political or military experience to run the country.

What qualifies someone to be the President of the United States? Even assuming a business background is enough, is it enough that Cain ran a regional, second-tier pizza chain?

tngal

or at least how I think he would. And I’m paraphrasing..

No I don’t know who the precinct commander of Jasp-jas jas jas jas per per county is . But I’ll know before i go there.:)

( Ok that’s just wrong, and on my own candidate too. I should be ashamed)

He’s working on the infrastructure. Yes he might be a tad thin on staff, but he’s building. Or as he likes to say, I’m employing.

Moe, I don’t know what it is about him, but I sense that America ( at least common sense America) was so deperate to have someone voice their frustrations and angst and he tapped into it.

Someone stole our happy. And we’ve come to get it back.

If that means inviting some unknown person I don’t even know who could be a mass murderer into my car to get them to a polling house well so be it.

gator_hoo

You do understand that the corporate tax includes payroll, right? The payroll tax isn’t eliminated, just renamed.

izoneguy

The Ethanol program works to a degree because they actually produce a liquid in the end that you can pour in a gas tank and it works (to a degree).
Let’s forget it props up farmers to the point where they become dependent
to the federal government like the welfare mother with 8 kids,
Let’s forget it destroys valuable crop land with over fertilization.
Let’s forget that it raises the prices of products that use corn as a base.
And let’s forget that it actually uses more fuel than the fuel it produces.
Otherwise Ethanol subsides are no different than loans to Solyndra.

Fiscal sobriety
A bipartisan vote to end ethanol subsidies is a small but heartening sign

Defenders say the credit and tariff reduce American dependence on imported fossil fuels and reduce carbon dioxide emissions. But it is an inefficient way to do both. Because ethanol produces less energy than petrol and requires the burning of fossil fuels in its production, and because ethanol would still be used without a credit, the taxpayer pays about $1.78 to reduce petrol consumption by one gallon via corn-based ethanol. Taking everything into account, ethanol releases almost as much carbon dioxide as petrol does. As Michael Greenstone, the director of the Hamilton Project, a liberal research group, puts it, ?Ethanol is largely farm support policy, not environmental policy.?
It survives thanks to the political clout of corn-growing Iowa, which is both a swing state and the first to select delegates during the presidential primary season, and to Republican reluctance to do anything that looks like raising taxes.

But Iowa has seen its clout diminish as some Republican presidential contenders have chosen to avoid the state. In any case, with corn prices near records and a federal mandate that requires refiners to blend a growing amount of biofuels with petrol, neither farmers nor the ethanol industry will suffer much.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

I was a little startled to hear that he was hired a week ago, and that Grubb’s first job is to find 1,500 precinct captains.

Folks, if any of you happen to be a Cain supporter who lives in Iowa, let me assure you: the Cain people want to talk to you RIGHT NOW. And you want to talk to them RIGHT NOW, too.

Scope

that Cain is so passionate, and so likable, and so anti-politician, that that alone will put him in the WH. Whatever happened to all those stories we read coming out of Iowa that the voters want to meet and shake hands with every candidate? Cain has spent very little time there, and with the release that he will be slowing down on the campaign trail, when will he spend much, if any time there. Not only does Cain not have much of an organization in Iowa, he hasn’t spent much money there. We’ve also read that the Iowa GOP, who I’m sure has much sway there, depends on the monies that the candidates bring to the state. The Ames straw poll brings them alot of money. Each time a candidate visits, the local businesses are helped. I’m not sure that mail, email, phone calls and social networking will override the fact that the Iowa GOP isn’t financially benefiting in any way.

From what I’ve read, the Iowa Tea Parties are not in favor of ethanol subsidies, and are clearly on the bandwagon of cutting spending and government in Washington. How does Cain’s message that he wants to phase out the subsidies, but still have some kind of government program to help the ethanol farmers go over with those Tea Party people? I don’t know.

gator_hoo

Is that nobody can seem to answer why Cain should be president except for, “I hate Romney” or “I can’t believe how bad Perry has debated.”

I have pointed to a number of positions which Cain has taken which make him at best a moderate, and I still people seem to “just know” he’s the most conservative candidate out there, and that running (ok, Cain supporters) rescuing, a second-tier regional pizza chain is good enough experience when it comes to running the largest economy and military in the history of the world.

windwaker24

I made $33,000 last year. I used Cain’s calculator and he raises my taxes from $3,000 to $5,500. And that’s just an estimate. I have a long commute each day, 56 miles one way. His sales tax will kill me.

Scope

discussion, I’m not so sure that the Iowa Caucus is going to have as great an impact in the 12 election. I guess it is still to be seen, but just a day ago the RNC Chair. Preibus said that the early states, all moving their cauci and primaries up, and including Fla. will most definitely be penalized by losing half their delegates. Someone else suggested that they would keep their delegates, but each one will only get half a vote. If that is in fact the case, Iowa, NH, and SC will not go so far in wrapping up the race, even before super Tues. this cycle. How much did Huckabees win in 08 do for him? Not much. McCain got NH and SC, but it took Fla. to crown him the nominee. It isn’t going to happen that way this year. What say you?

acat

As I recall, once Obama clinched it, all was forgiven.

My conclusion is that Preibus’ statement will only matter if nobody clinches before the convention, otherwise it becomes a “no blood, no foul” situation.

Mew

acat

I have trouble seeing that as a problem.

Mew

Scope

the people who have no clear understanding as to how their taxes work now, as opposed to how their taxes would work under his plan, to push him over the top. Since 999 was released, there have been many many studies, articles by economists, and conservative organizations released showing how the 999 plan would raise people’s taxes in ways they have not even thought about. It is very clear that two of Cain’s nines are a new tax stream for the government. Likability is an emotion, and Cain has captured the emotional factor with many. So much so that he can now propose anything, and like the Ron Paul supporters that take his word as gospel, the Cain people will remain with him. It is almost impossible for him to make any mistakes at this point.

Mike

I don’t have hard data to back this, but I’m pretty sure homeschooling families tend to have larger families. Which means large vehicles. And since you’re not hauling the KIDS to the caucuses, you might as well bring your neighbor, but only if he’s gonna vote like you want him to vote.

Plus, Ed Rollins has made a career off of winning the Iowa caucuses. He’s the first guy you talk to, if you don’t know how to win there. So Huck had that going for him.

I’m just relaying what I saw when I was there in 08. For Romney Boy, that was a gut-punch.

Scope

motivational speaker. That qualifies for him as president. Why not, the same happened with Obama. I thought the Democrats were lacking in critical thinking and intelligence. It seems to be a catchy phenomenon that crosses both parties.

tngal

Cain supporters are pull themselves up by the bootstraps kinda people. We won’t ask someone for a ride… we’ll leave the house two days early to walk to the polls, up hill, in the snow. then we’ll walk back home. Again uphill. All while carrying homemade baked goods to offer to our neighbors.

btpull

The combined payroll tax is roughly 15% split between the employee and employer. From an employee prescriptive the payroll tax is eliminated.

bzip

Well, I personally do see it as a problem but okay for the sake of argument lets say it isn’t.

Let’s couple Cain’s 999 plan with the new national sales tax that morphs into a VAT with tax increases, Then couple it to Cain’s support of TARP, lets couple it to the empowerment zones Cain wants to add into the tax code and what does that all add up to:
Big Gov’t.

When you add all these things up and sum them together it equals big government and it equals a person who wants more federal gov’t involved in our lives. That is the last thing I want in any candidate.

What you have to look at is the overall and bigger picture coming from Cain and that is far from a small, fiscally sound gov’t stand point. Mix into play the inexperience and lack of any governing experience and you have the making of a total disaster, a big spending liberal or at the very least somebody you have no idea whgat they will do.

gator_hoo

I don’t have much of a problem with the position not to audit the Fed.

I have a big problem with him saying at the last debate that he never said that the Fed shouldn’t be audited, when clearly he did.

btpull

Your payroll taxes should be approximately $2,300 so based on your numbers you are paying a nominal amount of $700 in Federal Income tax.

This highlights the biggest problem with the current system: someone who makes twice or three times what you make is not paying twice or three time the amount in Federal Incomes taxes, but is paying10 to 20 or more times that amount.

bzip

I forgot to mention that problem with Cain – the fact that Cain lied about this whole issue in the last debate is also troubling.

Good call gator

acat

Marvin Harrison trying to catch a pass from Peyton Manning!

If you think auditing the Federal Reserve is a good idea, then – without referencing Ron Paul – explain why you think Cain’s wrong.

Going off on a rant about how big government is the problem when the issue is the position on the auditing of the federal reserve is dodging the question.

Mew

renl57

I’m not supporting Cain,
but I can see why many folks would like him.

It’s the same reason they liked Ross Perot in the 1990s: Someone who seems to understand the intricacies of doing business in America and who can use that talent to restore the private sector to prosperity.

The problem is, there are no magic answers. Neither Perot nor Cain could come up with some magic fix that neither Clinton nor Bush nor Perry nor Romney nor Obama could come up with.

If there was some brilliant, amazing, mind-boggling solution that would fix America, we would have heard about it by now from the thousands of economists, political scientists, sociologists, pundits, columnists, bloggers and politicians.

If it’s out there, Google hasn’t found it.

acat

If Cain’s “position has evolved”, that’s fine, but .. the internet is forever, people. Ya change your mind, ya gotta ‘splain.

Mew

baracksolyndraobama

THE most consequential item happening now is the attempted smear of Sen Rubio. The top ?news? story on my Sprint smartphone newspage Sun morning was a Rubio smear posted there from CNN.com.

He poses a unique threat to The One?s reelection, so Obama?s Propaganda Dept (MSM) is trying to take him out. We, as well as Rubio, must strike back.

Erick, for instance, could challenge his CNN colleague to a segment debate over her claim that all descendents of immigrants have exact, precise dates seared in their infallible memories.

The rest of us on the right should defend him for the same reason the MSM is attacking him: he is a genuine existential threat to Obama and his cause.

Rubio needs to go further on offense as well. In light of these attacks, he could take on a visible role in the Fast and Furious investigation/blowback against the administration. The death-of-Hispanics aspect has gone almost unmentioned, and Sen Rubio is the perfect candidate to give voice to the dead and their survivors.

Our, and Rubio’s, respose to this will determine our future in much more profound ways than did the lynching of Gov Palin. We cannot let the Left get away with it again.

retire05

it will hurt anyone who takes those primaries. Those states will lose voting power at the national convention level. Even with the Super Tuesday delegate count, it could wind up being a very interesting primary season. It has the possibility of winding up in a brokered convention.

I don’t remember, and perhaps you do, but didn’t Florida lose half its delegates in ’08 for moving its primary date up?

There is a strong undercurrent movement to stop this game playing by states that think they have the right to go first. It basically chooses a candidate befoe the rest of the nation has had a chance to voice their choice. Texas will not have its primary until the first week in March, two months after a relatively small state (Iowa) has put its mark on the election.

windwaker24

It’s all so disappointing. I was trying not to say it, but this is starting to feel like “Hope and Change: Republican Edition”. I’m an Independent and I never thought in a million years Republicans would flock to rhetoric and promises. Especially after what we’ve been through with Obama and the GOP’s response to him. Now it just seems they were just all talk, and really didn’t care about Obama’s inexperience. It was all just partisan rhetoric.

As of this moment, Perry is the only guy I have in this race. Two weeks ago I could have settled for Newt if Perry dropped out, but I was talking with a co-worker who actually had dealings with him, and Newt has still not changed his ways and all of the crap he has done and is still doing will come out if he’s is the nominee.

This is my first primary that I’ve ever been involved in. I caught the tail end of the 2008 primary when there was only Huckabee, McCain, and Romney on the R side and Hilary and Obama on the other. Has it always been this hectic?

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/R-Del.phtml?sort=t

Not sure of the accuracy. Looks like Florida did lose half.

acat

I know the electoral college isn’t a direct map to the GOP delegates, but it’s close enough that we can use the DIY Electoral College tool over at Unlikely Voter to see what effect cutting Florida in half has.

And again, my guess is all will be forgiven (with a stern warning to not do it again..) if someone clinches the nom prior to the convention.

Mew

bzip

“It?s all so disappointing. I was trying not to say it, but this is starting to feel like ?Hope and Change: Republican Edition?.”

I can only agree with your feelings.

I still have gotten any answers to:
Why should I (or any conservative) vote for Cain instead of Perry?
Why should I discount Perry’s consistent 10 year record of conservative governing an go with Cain?
How can I be so sure of Cain with no record to base how he will govern?
Can anyone explain with substance why Cain is the man for the job?

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

I don’t ever get into the details. By the time it’s our turn to caucus (Colorado), the deal is already done. Romney has CO in the bag in any case.

windwaker24

WHAT? I don’t even know how to answer that! The Feds took $3,000 from me but I didn’t pay them. Is my 1040 lying to me?

http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

no..next

Scope

According to this article Fla. was allowed their delegates, but they only got half a vote each. Preibus was really thrown into a tailspin with all the shenanigans happening with Fla. moving their date to Jan. 31 this year. He said that he recognizes that the early states moved their dates up because of the move by Fla., but that they will still be punished.

As retire said below, the early states have always wanted to be the kingmakers of our candidate. Times have changed from the 08 season, for one we got rid of Steele which was a good thing. I don’t know how firm Preibus will be, but Steele was a wimp (who currently supports the OWS crowd, and said that Romney will be the nominee in 12). Preibus said that it really isn’t up to him with the penalties, it is in the RNC rules, and he will abide by the rules. Still, no move by the RNC to move forward on a more fair and balanced way of giving all the states voters a say in the choice. As retire said, Texas is in March, and VA is late also. We don’t get any choice, but have to choose those that have been elevated by the first few states. It sucks.

I really hope that Preibus doesn’t falter, and does go through with penalizing the early states with delegate votes. Maybe this will in fact be the way to give other states a voice in the ultimate candidate. Maybe Fla. figured that there was more than one way to skin a cat, no pun intended acat. Ha. I guess if the RNC refuses to make any changes, and wants to keep giving Iowa and NH the financial benefits of always and forever being first, their voices will not have as much weight.

Scope

Couldn’t agree more.

Scope

exactly what happened with the Dems. in 08. I remember that the Fla. delegate count remained an open question until the convention, I think. Didn’t Clinton have to release her delegates at the Convention, in order for Obama to clinch the nom? Somehow I remember her in her $5,000 pumpkin pantsuit making her speech that she would release those delegates. Wasn’t there talk that she huddled with Obama before that, and it was speculated that she would get some big favor for doing that? I guess she picked the Sec. of State for her prize. Hey, it gets her away from the BillyBob thingy.

acat

the scourge of the open primary is a better one than primary dates!

Mew

btpull

The Cain plan replaces both the payroll and income taxes. So you have to include both in your comparison of the 999 Plan and the current system.

For example, a single person making $33,000 who files a 1040-EZ return would pay $3,133 in Federal Income taxes. Plus an additional $2,525 in payroll taxes for a combine total between the two taxes of $5,658.

Based on your early comments a single person making $33K would be slight better off under the 999 plan. However, next year when they get their 3% raise their taxes increase by

btpull

The Cain plan replaces both the payroll and income taxes. So you have to include both in your comparison of the 999 Plan and the current system.

For example, a single person making $33,000 who files a 1040-EZ return would pay $3,133 in Federal Income taxes. Plus an additional $2,525 in payroll taxes for a combine total bite of $5,658.

Based on your early comments a single person making $33K would be slight better off under the 999 plan. However, next year when they get their 3% raise their taxes increase by $217 under the current system and only $89 under the Cain plan, which is the beauty of the Cain plan – that next earned dollar is only subject to a 9% tax.

acat

Illinois is usually not an early-primary State, although they moved way up in 2010 to ensure Alexi Gianoulias, a banker with mob ties, got on the ballot as the Dem Senate candidate .. and to force the GOP to nominate Mark Kirk, who they thought would lose, by shortening the lead time for anyone to challenge Kirk.

It .. didn’t work out the way they’d planned, and so far I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Sen. Kirk.

Mew

acat

Which is my point.

And I’d further guess that Hillary thought SecState would be a better post to build her foreign policy cred while not getting tarred with too much of Obama’s disaster. (anyone who thinks Bubba Clinton didn’t forsee Obama’s Icarus performance is dreaming… Clinton knows better than most what motivated Conservatism can do …)

Mew

Scope

I am still not so sure that she won’t allow herself to be talked into primarying Obama. It may not be by her doing, but, with all the polling going on with her beating out Obama, and all of the GOP candidates, someone is doing the research to see how she would fare in 12. Georgie S would run back to supporting her in a heartbeat, rather than give up the election to the GOP. He’s come to far, and is far too old to wait out his dreams any longer.

acat

quietly – very quietly – taking place among the Dems.

There’s more Dems in the Senate who are up in 2012 than GOPers, and they’d really rather keep the GOP (and more importantly, the Tea Partiers) from increasing their influence in that august body.

The problem is, if the Dems don’t run Obama, they likely lose a big percentage of the Black Bloc, but if they do run him, they lose a big percentage of the middle-class …

The nice part, for us, is that we get to watch. I’ve got popcorn.

Mew

http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

Further thread jacking may result in account termination.

Scope

the black vote, I’m sure Hillary will have the “first black president” along with her on the campaign trail. I’m also not so sure that there are enough black voters to give the O the win. According to the 2010 census, the Hispanics have now moved into the largest minority block. I’ve read the hispanics are leaving the O in droves, so they say. That is exactly why I keep saying that it is dumb for any of the GOP candidates to use harsh and destructive rhetoric when referring to that segment of the population. Unfortunately most, including some of the candidates, always scream about the illegal hispanics, forgetting that there are many many other races here illegally. Someone just posted recently that there is a sizable population of illegal asians as well. What a terrific opportunity for the GOP to gain many of those voters, but many of the legal hispanics won’t tolerate any GOP talk about those that look like them being disparaged and denigrated.

paulplantowin

On the other hand – these details are depressing. I’m in Illinois and seem to have been rendered semi-irellevant by Republican party presidential primary rules.
The whole Iowa thing almost sounds like a big scam.
Our poor country! No wonder I hate most professional politicians!!!
For better or worse – Cain is riding this resentment toward the power brokers in the Party, IMO.
Anyway – thanks for the free education – I had no idea things were this complex.

avagreen

on another forum.

Scope

is one big scam. I really don’t know why the Iowa GOP has been so powerful in the nomination process, for as many years as one could remember. With a varied schedule, different states would get the money advantage that Iowa gets every single 4 years. The RNC just refuses to push for any changes. I really don’t know why. Times are very different than allowing a state to dictate because of ethanol or religious reasons.

Scope

has actually been much better than Scott Brown.

paulplantowin

It’s called the Constitution – this gives strictly enumerated powers to the Feds.
I’m not being a smart aleck here – I assume you meant no ‘plan’ by Cain or any others will ‘fix’ us.
I like Cain’s willingness to represent a conservative Black perspective to American minorities that are such block Dem voters.
I believe the BigGov social programs have enslaved far too many far too long.
Cain’s 999 will get many more taxpayers into the game, and maybe they’ll cool off on having the Gov spend so much if it’s THEIR money instead of someone else’s.
Cain has brought a small awakening already to expose Obama’s plan to distribute wealth by taking from the rich to buy foodstamps and section 8 housing.
Cain is advocating working to make your own destiny, stop the victim game.
He may not make it to the White House, but he is showing a clear difference in the Nanny Victim State and self reliance and hard work.
Dis him all you want – but he is a positive influence, and Obama is pure destruction.
Thx

gekster

A Republican that would vote most of the time with the Republicans,
over a Democrat who would never vote with the Republicans.
We got what we wanted, and we also took a lifelong Dem seat away from Teddy.
People seam to forget that part.
I’m just informing Scope.

explodinghead

The Cain supporters are now part of a cult of personality. They have accepted him on an emotional level and there is no point trying to show them where he is not Conservative (ethanol subsidies, empowerment zones) or where he has contradicted his own stated beliefs (he says he mis-spoke) or his lack of experience in governing and foreign policy.
The fact that he has no ground game in Iowa doesn’t matter. Cainiacs have been snookered by the Barnum and Bailey of our times. Cain is “the greatest show on earth” he has entered their hearts. Their emotion makes them believe he will learn on the job and that his economic plans will actually create jobs in less than 4 years, and that having absolutely no idea on foreign policy is not a scarey thing, it is a beautiful, innocent thing. ” He is not a politician they say”, but he is the ultimate politician, staying away from appearances in case he makes any new gaffes, changing his beliefs depending who interviews him, pandering to Iowans on ethanol subsidies, pandering in Detroit changing 9-9-9 to 9-0-9, and on goes the show.
Cainiacs will get out and vote and he will win Iowa and maybe even the nomination, but I think the MSM will eat him alive and Obama will be laughing all the way to the White House.

tankertodd

If Herman Cain’s strategy is to hope people vote for him, then he probably shouldn’t be president anyway. The reason why people like me make him our top choice is that the Business world runs on results, not hope. I “hope” he isn’t counting on “Hope.” Hope is the stuff of Democrats and you see how that’s turned out.

I want Cain to *know* he will win because he has a plan that starts with the winning vote tally and then can explain where each vote will come from and how it will get there. Not because he needs it but because that’s the kind of quality we need in government: ability to execute, mind the details, and drive the key metrics.

Scope

Try talking someone who has fallen madly in love, at first sight, that they kinda maybe should find something out about that person, before they agree to rush to the altar. Problem with that is, the rest of us will all have to experience the pains of that divorce, just as the Obamabots have.

bzip

Let talks about your points:
1)Constitution – it seems Cain doesn’t know the Constitution that well and feels the 2nd amendment is more a state?s issue.
http://youtu.be/Wmhu1QkRbqY

2) “BigGov social programs have enslaved far too many far too long” is that why Cain is using the “empowerment zones” (another word for affirmative action) into his 999 plan?
Herman Cain favors Federal Government intervention in the work place on the behalf of blacks and minorities.
Does that all sound like BigGov’t and more social programs?

3)Cain’s 999 plan simply put increases taxes (a big NO I thought with the conservative base) in starts a new national sales tax, VAT
Again the signs of big gov’t coming from Cains main platform.

For a guy who has never held elected office, has no governing experience could someone please explain to me why I should vote for Cain over someone that has 10 years of consistent conservative governing experience like Rick Perry?

Could someone explain to me why I should (and all voters) stick their necks out for a guy klike Cain? Why we should possible endanger our country electing a guy that has no experience, no record to look back and see how he would govern?

The only thing we have is Cain’s words and right now Cain’s words are sounding too good.

Cain was or is pro-life
Cain was for an electric fence or not
Cain is for exchanging GITMO prisoners or not
Cain is not for auditing the fed or not
Cain and racial baiting
Cain fellow blacks are brainwashed

Are we supposed to elect Cain based on his words? If so that aren’t adding up too well.

Are we supposed to elect Cain because he was a good CEO?
If so there is at least some question as to whether he was a good CEO to begin with?

If words, inspiring speeches are the only thing we can go by to elect Cain I wonder what has become of the conservative base.

Please help me to understand. I surely have ask enough Without any substance I can’t honestly say Cain nomination = Obama’s 2nd term

bzip

I keep saying its Obama 2008 all over again but with a “R” instead.

I keep asking:
For a guy who has never held elected office, has no governing experience could someone please explain to me why I should vote for Cain over someone that has 10 years of consistent conservative governing experience like Rick Perry?

Could someone explain to me why I should (and all voters) stick their necks out for a guy like Cain?

Why we should possible endanger our country electing a guy that has no experience, no record to look back and see how he would govern?

I am not getting answers and surely no substance either.

If words matter and they are the only way to judge Cain since he has no record I truly wonder how am I suppose to judge Cain based on what I have heard so far.

paulplantowin

I can see problems with Cain in several areas and am not prepared to defend any candidate. Others try and seems to talk past one another.

But – I still like the contrast between Cain’s LIFE and Obama’a LIFE.
Cain is enabling many Black conservatives to be encouraged to speak out against the Dem dominance with Blacks, and the horrible destruction to Black communities by Liberal leaders like Sharpton etc.

i didn’t mean to imply a full endorsement of everything Cain stands for, but I DO like some stuff about him.
Overall – he is a far more positive force than Obama
A full constitutional conservative? Not so much.

Scope

to the Brown race, was in fact aware that he wouldn’t be any conservative by any means. However, I will not believe that the majority that supported his election ever guessed just how far to the left he would vote. If I am not mistaken, Brown voted against the Republicans on most of the major issues. He voted for Banking Reform, and he voted for the D DADT bill. Can you cite for me where he voted on any major issue with the Republicans? I’m not saying he didn’t, but I am not thinking of any major R positions that he stuck with. BTW, I never went along with the philosophy that if someone voted with the Republicans, even a few times, it’s better than any D that would never vote with us. Aren’t we trying so hard to get rid of those that do not “hold the line” as EE so often asks for?

gekster

from Project Vote Smart:
http://votesmart.org/index.htm

Scott Browns’ voting record:
http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=18919

Take a look, you decide.

windwaker24

last year’s tax return. My weekly contribution to FICA is $33. My current effective tax rate is 9% on my income. So the only thing I will be getting is an extra $33 per paycheck (even that is a big maybe since I currently have 4 pre-tax items which Cain’s plan hasn’t addressed or I haven’t seen it), which the sales tax will quickly eat up.

traversecityconservative

I’m sure Cain has some kind of productive ground game for the caucus but it’s not needed. What he has is a grassroots movement. Who are the most motivated voters? Tea partiers. Which candidate has the highest intensity rating? Herman. And where are the Paul, Bachmann, Perry and Santorum votes going to go to when those candidates drop out of the voting? To Herman or Newt. The only person Herman can possibly lose to in Iowa is Newt. I really doubt there will be many of those four groups I mentioned above going into the Romney camp no matter how much B.S. their supporters spew in the precincts.

circlegranch

if we as a nation didn’t learn in ’08 that smooth talk is not enough to run the free world, then when will we get it? Herman Cain needs to get in line and learn from the bottom up, not from the top down. This is no time to gamble the future of our country, which is jeopardy as it is, by electing somebody that has no subtance to do this job. THIS job. The presidency of the United States. If Donald Trump’s business expertise wasn’t enough for our party, then how does Cain end up at the top of the heap?

If you look at polling coming out of Iowa this weekend, none of it adds up or makes sense. Supposedly, Cain and Romney are basically tied for first yet read any article in any paper in any state and all we hear is how Romney is not liked. Cain has no ground game in Iowa and he put out that creepy smoking ad (his smile at the end looks more like somebody’s weird uncle a family keeps in the attic than a man that will be in charge of the United States of America, be the Commander in Chief of the world’s finest military and the man that will go toe to toe with foreign leaders, friend and foe alike.)

So explain how it is that one guy with basically no campaign organization and another guy that nobody can stand are leading the pack?

Then comes the straw poll which Paul wins. There is no rhyme or reason (especially reason) to anything coming out from these polls. Granted, they’re slanted. For example, CNN/Time polling data this week was comprised of more Democrats than Republicans. That’s always a useful poll for a GOP primary. 300-400 people that are hand-picked in the first place, that happen to answer the phone during dinner; results are tallied, the media picks it up and all of sudden we have front runners and 2nd tier candidates. Wouldn’t it be great if we did away with polls all together? Take the debate process too and trash the whole mess.

Like bzip, where’s our answers and straight talk as to why we should all line up behind a political novice? I don’t care what 300 people that subscribe to the Des Moines Register think. I can think for myself and I don’t decide based on media hype or polling data. I look at record, performance, results. That’s why its an easy choice for me to support Rick Perry. This is a no–brainer, folks.

tricianc

Mr. Cain was never in the military. And if IT experience is enough, I’ll be the next President.

Then Mr. Cain is going to get his Foreign Policy and National Security creds by giving a Foreign Policy speech written by someone else. How easy is that? Wow, then even I can be President. I’ve went to college, owned a business, turned a company around, managed franchises, sat on corporation boards. Now, all I have to do is get John Bolton to write me a foreign policy speech and I’m a shoe-in.

Giving answers/policy views unchallenged on the stump or in an interview is easy. Easier still is a speech. Exactly what Obama did. What’s true is what you say when challenged and Cain failed miserably on both fiscal and social issues (especilally flip flops on abortion. Thurs. he said he’d learned more about abortion and is pro-life with exceptions, however in an interview today on CBS he said he was no exceptions. Which is it? He’s pro-choice and just doesn’t want people to know it. Those Iowa conservatives would make him pay)

Does he really think we’re that stupid with all the gaffes he’s made on it so far? Not only has he stated he has no knowledge, he’s gone ahead and answered the questions anyway giving the complete opposite of the position.

If you’ll vote for whoever Karl Rove, Coulter and Chris Chrisie opposes, that’s not Cain. They want him in the race to split the conservative vote for a Romney win and then for Cain’s supporters to switch over to Romney. The Karl Rove/Bush/Cheney/Coulter/GOP Elite target is Rick Perry. He fought them hard in Texas against Kay Bailey Hutchinson and beat them. They disdain him.

intensity

…I just checke out the Walace/Perry interview on Fox.

Perry did a decent job supporting his jobs and tax plan.

What was most interesting to me was when Wallace told Perry he’s at 7% now compared to Romney and Cain, who are about at 24%.
Perry very confidently told Wallace that he looked forward to being at the finish line of the primaries and debating Obama next year.

I personally don’t thnk polls matter at this or any other point.
But Perry’s fortitude of knowing he will prevail, given his perfect elcection record of 10-0, makes me really think he knows something that everyone else does not.

Very interesting….

Scope

Now, for someone who can imbed videos here, is there some reason why you don’t post linkable articles? Not being a nitpicker, but, I usually don’t go out and type in addresses to link to a particular site. Any reason you don’t post readily linkable links? Not picking on you at all, but I haven’t done the video thingy because with dial up, I can’t watch videos anyway. I do like clicking on a link to a site from the post. It encourages more to just click and go, kinda like wash and wear.

avagreen

Read that somewhere…….not sure where.

http://2008electionpolls.blogspot.com/2007/08/2008-presidential-election-2008.html

jackdaniels11

Rollins plays rough. But he has standards unlike some other operatives. Bachmann had Rollins until she started speaking “off the cuff”. That’s the fastest way to lose Rollins as your campaign manager. That, and lying to him. He can’t deal with either one.

gekster

I tried a few times, and couldn’t get it to work.
I’m just as happy with washing over, copy and paste.
And I didn’t look at the voting record, just provided it to you.

And you don’t have to type the link in.
Put you mouse pointer before or after what you want, right click and hold,
move the mouse pointer over what you want to copy allst the while holing the
right clicker, and it highlights, or turns blue.
When you have what you want highlighted, release,move the pointer over it,
left click, (or as I like to say, menue click), and select copy.
In the address bar, clear it out, menue click, and hit paste.
I don’t know if you know that already, but what the hay.

jackdaniels11

I found out while GOTV’ing for Bush in 2004 that Republicans don’t need or want a ride to the polls. They don’t want your opinion. They make their minds up for themselves.

Which is good. If Cain can tap into the base, he will be a formidable opponent for Romney. Especially if he can get Perry to drop out early. Something tells me that both Perry and Cain will stay in the race until at least Super Tuesday. Which can only help Romney.

jackdaniels11

already.

We need America’s brain to get in there and stop us from following Iceland and Greece into bankruptcy court. Imagine what kind of interest China and other investors will want on its loans to us after we default on a few payments.

intensity

…conservatives, who are usually the intelligent, hard-working, dedicated american citizens,

have no reason to support someone as inexperienced as Cain to take on Obama or contest the White House.

Perry ’2012

Scope

Grubbs job of finding 1,500 precinct captains, in less than 40 something days, with other campaigns already having big time ground games, is going to be very very hard. From what I read in my linked article, Grubbs thinks that phones, mail, email, and social networking is going to get the job done, I have a bridge in AZ to sell him, or anyone who thinks that it can be done. Cain obviously thought that his grassroots supporters would get him to the top was a little naive in my opinion. Then again, who knows, maybe they will hand him Iowa. I still have questions about those grassroots supporters that will give him the nom. The Iowa GOP must have much sway, and they haven’t had their palms greased by Cain. Isn’t that a requirement in Iowa, sick as it may be? Don’t forget the hand shaking with the voters either.

intensity

…a person who will do on the job training in the WH>>>>>>>vote Cain

…a liberal in republican diguise(aka RINO)>>>>>>>>>>>>>vote Romney

…a true conservative with conservative principles and modus op>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>VOTE PERRY!!!!!!!!!!!

westcoastpatriette

to cut and paste an address instead of having to type it.

My son told me that RS’s system is very difficult to use to embed web addresses. He is a computer engineer so he knows what he is talking about.

gekster

I’ll learn to post a link, but it is not high on my list right now.
Maybe late at night I’ll practice on an open thread, but I’m afraid I’ll auto load something like happened inadvertently yeasterday.
Well, somday.

septembergurl

on the front porches of America. Namely, Herb the subject of sexual harassment claims from his time as head of restaurant lobby. High-tech lynching or something to it?

Here’s an idea, how about going with a candidate about whom there has never been a breath of scandal, one wife, seven children. Conservative Governor of a conservative state, wide foreign policy and trade experience.

Jon Huntsman. Yes I know Erick has told you to hate him and you obey. Might want to rethink that.

politicalgal1

in Iowa are anti ethanol–drives up the cost of their feed. Don’t know how many of them there are and if they outnumber the corn growers and Ethanol voters. I have family in Iowa. Many of them do not put ethanol in their cars–lower gas mileage.

baracksolyndraobama

Meanwhile, this site has been dedicated today to the Pizza Man’s strategy in Iowa and inside baseball from a pissy Chris Wallace about not being granted an interview. Weak.

Herman Cain may win Iowa, but he will flounder more quickly afterward than Huckabee in ’08. Also, Mitt Romney will eventually do an interview with Mike Wallace’s boy.

Ban me if you must. In the end, though, I took the time to shed a little more light on the most consequential event going on right now. So, frankly, I don’t care.

Meanwhile, Obama’s Leftist Lynchmob cometh. Daily, without fail, and dedicated beyond belief to the bloodsport that they practice.

bzip

My guess is – There will be a lot more coming if Cain is actually vetted properly.

gekster

It is not the subject matter that is the problem,, it is in an article with no relation to your subject matter.
Comments such as yours belong in an”open thread”.
The Morning Briefing is an open thread, and comments such as your two threadjacking would belong there.
Also, now and then an article will openly state, open thread.
This is just a suggestion, do what you want.

( I hope I am not typing to a ghost at this time).

citizenkh

We had several grassroots candidates here in Louisiana for last weekend’s election. They did not do so well. In fact, none made the runoff, especially those with tons of tea partiers as campaigners.

It does take MUCH MORE than tea party to win elections.

bonnman

If they are wavering on a simple yes or no question then my guess is there’s something to it. True or not it will be a test of Cain’s campaign on if they can handle this or not. Obama certainly isnt going to play nice.

sunshinek67

Politico bomb tonite. Wonder if there is anything to this~

izoneguy

Two women accused Cain of inappropriate behavior

During Herman Cain?s tenure as the head of the National Restaurant Association in the 1990s, at least two female employees complained to colleagues and senior association officials about inappropriate behavior by Cain, ultimately leaving their jobs at the trade group, multiple sources confirm to POLITICO.
The women complained of sexually suggestive behavior by Cain that made them angry and uncomfortable, the sources said, and they signed agreements with the restaurant group that gave them financial payouts to leave the association. The agreements also included language that bars the women from talking about their departures.

Xasteius

Media hypocrisy: Obama killed thousands with F & F and Politico focuses on some supposed wild oats.

citizenkh

A few things which are not said about ethanol which I list here as follows:

1. Ethanol plants are only in states where there is a state subsidy of at least 20 cents per gallon.

2. Virtually all ethanol plants, regardless name on the sign, are majority owned by local farmer co-ops, which is the only way to get subsidies in states which provide them.

3. Iowa’s subsidy is 30 cents per gallon.

4. Ethanol is mandate by the EPA as a oxygenator in gasoline by the EPA in most urban/metropolitan areas of the country due ozone levels.

5. If the Feds cut out subsidies it will not harm the ethanol industry, until the EPA stops mandating its use.

citizenkh

until Hailey Barbour vetoed funding of the ethanol subsidy which passed the year before he was elected.

izoneguy

Cain denies report of sexual harassment

Cain spokesman J.D. Gordon said the political press was “dredging up thinly sourced allegations” from Cain’s tenure leading the trade group in the 1990s. Gordon said the report includes “unsubstantiated personal attacks” and said the press is “casting aspersions on his character and spreading rumors that never stood up to the facts.”
Asked if Cain’s campaign was denying the report, Gordon said, “Yes.”

Scope

or that WaPo. The leftist media is going to go after anyone they think can harm Obama’s chance at re-election,, Cain now being at the head in polls, has to have expected these kinds of hit pieces.

What I will say is that Cain should have realized the same kind of hit pieces against Perry when he was in the top, and should never ever particapted in his hit statements on Perry for the rock story. Hit pieces are not right, but every candidate has a responsibility to not participate in them, or further them. Maybe Cain may now have seen the error of his ways against Perry with false charges, all but accusing Perry as being a racist. Isn’t the saying something like what goes around, comes around?

izoneguy

Rick should answer – “Will Bless his heart, I would rather focus on the real issues facing America”

seth90212

is whatever the accuser says it is. That means if you look at her she could interpret that as sexual harassment. If you ignore her completely, she could interpret that as sexual harassment. If you touch her on the shoulder she could accuse you of sexual harassment.

An idea of sexual harassment is entire subjective. I’m not making this up. Call any HR department and they’ll tell you the same thing.

What the whole Anita Hill thing did is it trivialized sexual harassment and gave way to much power to accusers. Most men in office environments are walking on egg shells because of it. Even bosses are afraid of their female employees since an accusation can ruin careers.

retire05

has real legs, it is going to be pretty hard for Cain to overcome. And it bothers me that Cain was flippant with the reporter, asking the reporter if they had ever been accused of sexual harrassment, If the story has no legs, and is just some hit piece Politico created out of fairy wings, Cain should have denied the story.

And yes, Cain shot his mouth off about the “rock” but as I have said before, Cain lied about what he said about Perry when he was interviewed on the Michael Berry Show in Houston on Oct. 25th. When Cain was asked if he spoke too soon on Perry and the rock, Cain said he didn’t recall saying anything about Perry and IRAQ. When Berry corrected Cain said he really didn’t say that Perry was insensitive, but that the word was insensitive. But that is not what Cain said, and I have Cain’s exact words written down because, frankly, for Cain to do that hacked me off. I thought then, Mr. Cain, something is going to come back to bite you before this is all over.

izoneguy

So it will be on this week…..

My advice to the Perry Campaign is to ignore this story….

carolina

will be a “feeding frenzy” if the allegations are true.
Based on the above posts, I don’t think it will be that simple.

onemovoter

Ann Coulter is completely ticked off and rightly so explaining that this is a leftist hit piece. Williams is saying it’s a conservative group that is doing this story, even though Politico is the one putting this story out.

Most likely this will go 2 ways. Either Cain won’t be able to explain it away easily and it hits him hard, or Cain says completely not true and conservatives get even more pissed and bump him up in the polls even more.

lineholder

At this point, the information has come from what could be considered as a questionable source. If there is evidence found to substantiate it, I have no doubt, and I mean none, that it will be a front-page story on RS as quickly as that evidence can be found, along with many other Conservative websites.

But for now, it probably is wiser to wait and see if more detailed information can be found.

onemovoter

I just remembered that they had an interview with Anita Hill about a month ago on CSPAN. Should have seen this coming with that airing.

Bringing up sexual harassment then and then doing it now is typical of liberals. Just wish they cared enough when there was actual proof with Clinton.

Scope

Perry will ignore this story. He will allow Cain to explain it all away all by himself, as Perry sells his jobs and energy plans. Perry is focused and on message.

izoneguy

So I guess it will be up to the reporters to “find the truth”…..
If these women exist then you know they are under
tremendous pressure – remember “WeinerGate”?

Weiner came out and denied until the proof and the real
women came out?

In the Cain Case they said the women took a pay-off
and agreed not to talk. Do they take a chance to cash in
and worry about getting sued later???

Only Herman knows the truth.

http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

[This is, after all, a Cain thread.]

onemovoter

JD Gordon won’t categorically deny the charge. Just saying it’s typical charge put out.

littlehouse18

All the article could say was that these women were “offended.” Now we all know that absolutely anything could offend liberals. Reading above about Anita Hill being trotted out recently leaves no doubt in my mind that this is an orchestrated hatchet job on Mr. Cain.

Xasteius

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/cain-responds-sex-harassment-allegation

Sounds like the campaign believes its a liberal hit job.

onemovoter

that handled this case instead of Cain. Cain might not have known about it until they came to him letting know about it.

This is so aggravating.

onemovoter

I completely missed something or maybe not dunno. I’m usually clueless though with Scope and izoneguy keeping me sane.

retire05

claiming the story is false? As far as I know, he has not personally responded to the claim except to ask a reporter if the reporter had ever been accused if sexual harrassment. That is not an answer, it is a dodge.

Here’s the problem with the whole story; if it is false, it will just fade away and it benefits Cain and makes Politico look really, really bad. If it is true, and the women come out and provide the facts (like being paid off to just go away and keep their mouths shut) those women yes, have violated a silence agreement. But what the heck do you think will happen? Do you think the National Restaurant Assoc. is going to sue those women and keep this on the front pages for the next 12 months. Hell, no.

Just a hunch, but knowing Politico’s political leanings (left) I don’t think they would risk doing a story knowing it could backfire and benefit Herman Cain with sympathy votes.

aesthete

was with his favorite chairman, Alan Greenspan. Greenspan had a lot to do with the inflationary policies which caused the housing bubble (among other things), and bucked the policy of simply maintaining constant, minor inflation. That is somewhat problematic for me.

onemovoter

One person was actually able to insult Politico with the following tweet.

It’s sad for @politico when National Enquirer maintains higher levels of journalistic integrity.

rsmcain: I’m waiting for the Will Folks expose’: ‘I Was Rick Perry’s Rentboy’

cayankee:Over on Intrade, Herman Cain contract plunging, down 41%

lineholder

posting comments to that article believe it was a hit job as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was. In a political context, people may not see Cain as being any sort of a threat, but in a societal context, he is very quickly becoming a threat to the Dems and black liberals.

Still, if there is absolutely truth to this story at all, I’d rather know it now.

acat

Explain why it’s a good idea.

Mew

defendtherepublic

a closed primary for every state. (Or semi-closed to include the all-mighty ‘independents’). I wouldn’t mind seeing the first-state block rotated every 4 years. Could you imagine Maryland, Oregon, Minnesota, and Wisconsin to start the primary season!

westcoastpatriette

and people started talking about the Cain drama on it so he was confronting them to stop threadjacking. He thought he was on that diary when he gave another warning here. Less confused? Hope so.

onemovoter

I’ll put it as it should be.

The Fed is constantly audited every single year.

The problem is that the main fed is not handing over those audits to congress when asked for them.

Cain was right initially, saying that they are audited already, so no need to do it again, and that it wasn’t the President that had oversight powers, but the congress.

Ron Paul should have been pushing to have the audit info turned over to congress ever since he’s been bringing the issue up. However he just talks about it leaving the issue there so he has something to “fight for”.

How do I know all this? My sister is an auditor by trade and knows how things are done at the KC fed. I talked to her about his issue and said Ron Paul is full of it, and should just get congress to pull the audit info once and for all, they have the power.

onemovoter

Still though thanks for the follow up.

defendtherepublic

Idealism doesn’t win anyone but the idealists–maybe. But, if the candidate is going to campaign against Obama as a conservative, will he say I’m a this-conservative or that-conservative (fiscal, social, compassionate, green, Reagan….)? If they claim it, does their past prove it? Whoever the nominee is, if they campaign as a conservative, their actions and policies will define the conservative movement to many who do not participate in it. Romney enacted the health care individual mandate; Perry has the heart for tuition, Gingrich has a green conservatism; Cain has a pre-fair tax sales tax; Paul has…well, Paul; and the rest have more to prove so far as the polls go. They will all have an organization as the nominee, but will they have the passion too?

Note: when you hypenate the conservative, you dilute all authenticty to the entire principles of conservatism. What is it that you’re trying to add that isn’t already in the conservative principles? And by doing so, what are you subtracting from it?

acat

Ron Paul has used this as a nice, safe hill to keep go charging up for years – ever wonder why he was unable to build a coalition to charge it with him? Because he doesn’t need one. Just needs that hill.

Mew

rightwingmom52

Since you already know how to cut and paste (I think), here’s a shortcut. If you replace the word INSERT below with your link, it should create a hyper link. In other words, put here after your link with no spaces. You can replace the word “here” with whatever word you want.

here

So if I post a link to The Sophist’s diary Sophist

before I posted, it would have looked like this

Sophist

only without the spaces before and after the actual link.

Make sense?

rightwingmom52

Apparently, the spaces before and after the link don’t matter, so my whole post is busted and the HTML code part didn’t show up.

Let me try again.

Put this code only without the parentheses

(here)

after your link. As noted before you can change the word here to whatever you want. If this doesn’t work right, I give up.

gekster

I had the same problem trying to show the video embed code.

lineholder

If I could, I wouldn’t be posting IP addresses, LOL.

gekster

post the first half of the code,
and then post the second half as a reply to,
with an explanation on how to combine them.
With the assumption that the link will go inbetween,
and just where would I put the word “link”

Kenny Martsolf

To insert a link, use this formula:

[a href="full url of page"] words you want highlighted[/a]

You need to replace the brackets with the greater than and less than signs that face in the same direction as the brackets. Between the quotation marks, you put the full URL including the http://.

gekster

this is a test.
just a link to RS

RedState

Kenny Martsolf

nt

gekster

Thanks Kenny.

kid with new toy time.

and a happy dance.

lineholder

Thanks, Kenny and gekster.

gekster

you got it started.
5 smiles for you.

potato

The Paul votes are going to go to…Paul. Expect him to be written in. Frankly, over half of the Paul people are tired of holding their noses for candidates they don’t like, and are voting Paul (or not showing up, which will cascade into the Congressional races) regardless of if he gets the nomination or not.

If the rest of the party chooses to join, they have a good chance at beating Obama. If the rest of the party chooses to nominate someone else, they’re looking at quite the uphill battle when they’re not going to get about 6-7% of their voter base (including independants) just by nominating someone else. That won’t matter in most states, but in the swing states, it’ll hurt quite a bit.

Let’s face it. Obama is going to get reelected. The main voterbase won’t hold their nose for Paul, and Paul’s people won’t hold their nose for someone else. Cain has an edge in that he can pull a percentage of the black vote away from Obama, but he won’t pull as many independants as Paul, so it’s a wash anyway. Plus, I think his “blacks have been brainwashed” comments won’t go over too well when they’re aired in an attack add in a general election.

libdestroyer

Perhaps Rick “skip all debates” Perry would do better.
Get real.

libdestroyer

Everyone here gets that you don’t like Herman Cain.
I’m sure if you were just a little honest with yourself you would see plenty of flaws with Rick Perry.

but it really doesn’t matter does it bzip? Cain is a frontrunner and Perry is not.

Seriously you aren’t changing anyone’s mind on this blog. Hell 98% of people on this site are Perry people.

RS

FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

Herman Cain ’12 Iowa caucuses: Obama, 2008? Or Dean, 2004?

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