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FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

Administration on wrong side of CNN freedom of conscience poll.

And BOOM goes the Dynamite.

Here is something that needs to be pointed out (as Hot Air did): this poll on the public reaction to the Obama’s administration’s attack on freedom of conscience is skewed toward the liberal position in at least two ways.  First, it polls adults, which traditionally skews things a couple points towards the Democrats; second, it took place after the administration/mainstream media blitz touting Obama’s compromise.  And said poll still shows a majority of respondents opposed to the Obama administration requiring religious organizations from funding procedures that violate those organizations’ religious beliefs.  50/44 opposed/for, and anybody out there willing to take a bet on those numbers changing in the administration’s favor when it comes to likely voters? Or even registered ones?  Actually, we already know; Rasmussen polled likely voters, and came up with 50/39 opposed/for.  Pew polled adults, but also polled Catholics (48/44 and 55/39 for exempting religious organizations, respectively).

CNN is left scratching its metaphorical head at its own results, given that the poll results also show extremely broad support (81/17 for/against) for birth control among Americans, including American Catholics (77/22).  Speaking as somebody who himself in opposition to the Church on this, let me explain the divergence between the two questions: yes, I and many other American Roman Catholics are functional if not formal heretics of the Church* over contraception.  We are, in fact, engaged in a long-term and probably ultimately unresolvable conflict over the doctrine involved.

BUT WE DID NOT ASK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT’S ‘HELP’ IN THIS.  This is between us, and Holy Mother Church.  Barack Obama can stay out of it.  He will not, because the man is incapable of [not] incompetently trying to meddle in any issue of American life that offends his rather provincial and insular urban liberal academic worldview; or, as one of my colleagues has privately noted, the current administration is likely being deliberately obtuse on this point. Fortunately, as this poll suggests, Obama’s refusal to allow for freedom of conscience may be causing the chickens to, as they say, come home to roost…

Moe Lane (crosspost)

PS: Another colleague had privately noted that various and sundry Leftists are upset with this poll because it doesn’t go out of its way to frame the question in a fashion that is most suitable for the long-term goals of various and sundry Leftists.  If this complaint reminds you of one that was desperately used to try to drum up support for Obamacare, that’s because it is fairly close.  Note that it didn’t work that time, either.

*Yes, we are bad and obstinate Roman Catholics.  So noted.  Move on.

COMMENTS

  • heimdall

    There is no reason for government to be telling any person or group, religious or not, what they should and should not insure or have on their insurance. It is best left to the market, where it should be in the first place.

  • Thomas Crown

    That long-term and unresolvable conflict in the doctrine was settled nineteen hundred years ago.

    I know, total weight off your chest, right? :)

  • earlgrey

    weakening of the MSM in controlling the message? It has been a long week and I am looking for a silver lining.

    BTW, I read that according to the CDC 99% of women that might want or use contraceptives has access to these services. It is probably easier to get than food.

  • Viet71

    I thought contraception was a settled matter. Legally it seemed to be, as the years unfolded after Griswold v. Connecticut (1965). Always knew about the conflicted behavior of many American Catholics.

    Obama has managed to take a non-issue and raise it zombie-like into the American spotlight. How fitting in this season of zombie flicks.

  • stlgop

    With more and more people getting their information from the internet and I see no reason why it will not continue to get weaker.

  • bornagainrealist

    Didn’t the Teri Shivo debacle teach any of you anything? This election will be determined by independents. If you think denying BC coverage to large groups of women will win you votes, you need to start cutting your pills in half. Wake up and look at the election with rational eyes.

  • Rudy

    But where would we send Obama? Maybe to Greece? LOL

  • DerKrieger

    …a rock all week? Sleeping off a bender? On vacation in the Outback? Or are you just stupid?

    No one is seeking to deny anyone anything.

    Please familiarize yourself with the real issue and the conservative position on said issue before spouting off and putting your ignorance on display for all to read.

  • star90

    I don’t think personal attacks are your friend here.

  • Thomas Crown

    This is Anchorman with a vengeance. I’d stay clear were I you.

  • Thomas Crown

    Your inability to spell Terri Schiavo, your recitation of Known Facts™ and your inability to politely figure out how to interact with your chosen forum would have been extras.

    Maybe try to think rationally before posting next time? Just a suggestion.

  • deanfromohio

    “the man is incapable of incompetently trying to meddle in any issue of American life that offends his rather provincial and insular urban liberal academic worldview…”

    Rather, he is propelled by his own wickedness and empowered by the instructions and influence of demons.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    As a liberty-loving Catholic …
    who “supports” birth control in the sense of supporting that it remains totally legal and available, AND
    totally supports the position of the Catholic Church in maintaining their freedom of conscience and knowing the right *not* to pay for something you object to is as important a liberty interest as being able to pay for something you do want …

    I am totally and thoroughly AGHAST that the media can’t believe that people like us might exist, supporting freedom of choice and opposing the Obama administration’s complete and utter overreach on liberty grounds which destroys freedom of choice.

    It’s truly Orwellian for the Obama administration to claim that forcing institutions, insurance companies and individuals to buy things we dont want is ‘freedom of choice’.

    We need to unit to fight Obama’s assault on our freedom of choice and the centerpiece of their assualt on our freedom of choice is Obamacare.

  • Kyle-MI

    And I am not talking about insurance businesses. I mean the whole third party paying system that has developed over the years. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be buying health insurance (or a health program) through their place of employment.

    If people really wanted the freedom to choose what they want covered or not, they should be pushing for both the government and their employers to get their hands off their health care.

  • acat

    Unfortunately, Medicare is government …. but corporate needs to get out.

    One of the pawful of things McCain got right.

    Mew

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    Do you support or oppose healthcare mandates?

    If the issue was healthcare mandates for cancer treatment, would you come on here and chastise opponents of forcing mandates by saying … “I thought cancer was a settled matter” or other such non sequitors in support of freedom-destroying mandates?

    Are you going to oppose healthcare mandates as a general principles but suddenly support impositions because it gets the goat of the Catholic Church (by forcing them to violate their conscience)?

    This is not a question of whether you support or oppose contraception. This is a question of whether you support religious liberty and individual choice.

    I am shocked that there are folks willing to show their basic ignorance of that distinction on Redstate. If you want to fall for (or repeat) Obama’s phony politics of distraction, do it elsewhere.

    “This constitutional trifecta ? the state invading the autonomy of religious institutions, private companies and the individual citizen ? should not surprise. It is what happens when the state takes over one-sixth of the economy.” – Charles Krauthammer

  • hotflash50

    This issue is not going away. 100% of U.S. bishops are now united in fighting this. The Church will never compromise on it’s doctrine. Obama will cave, he has no choice. Probably closer to the election so liberal Catholics will jump back on board.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    If you had done so and looked at the poll results themselves would have shown that independents are 44/47 against restrictions on liberty of conscience, too. Seriously, that was a rookie mistake. Not as much a rookie mistake as not doing basic oppo research before you started babbling about Terri Schiavo to the site’s social moderate site moderator. Guess we all looked alike to you, huh?

    Shoo.

  • star90

    As a newcomer directed to this site by listening to a very intelligent Mr. Erickson, I am met with a scare and someone returning an “in the old days”? I took the warning below where you post, “be respectful….”as a rule enforced by this site. Thank you for your welcome. If I am out of line, I would hope that a founding moderator will let me know. As far as I’m concerned, this matter is closed.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    it was still the right thing to do. And you are right to put this guy in his place.

    As I get older I am starting to really see that standing on convictions, even if you are occasionally wrong is better than being washed away with the flotsam and jetsam of politics.

  • sulmak

    if they want insurance that covers birth control they can choose it and pay for it.

  • heimdall

  • greeneyeshade

    “If you think denying BC coverage to large groups of women will win you votes, you need to start cutting your pills in half. Wake up and look at the election with rational eyes.”

    Forget for a minute, that nobody is denying anybody anything. (I resent that type of rhetorical sleight-of-hand as its generally a product of the left’s misrepresentation foundry)

    The purpose of insurance is to cover “insurable events”, which, are losses that have the characteristics (among other things) of being significant in amount, infrequent in occurrence and outside the control of the insured.

    When you cover birth control, you are simply engaging in “trading dollars”, playing upon a well known tendency of people to misuse of insurance where people seek coverage for routine, insignificant items under their control.

    The result is incurring excessive deadweight administrative expenses, which are significantly indifferent to the size of claim. One of the big gripes Obama claimed to be getting rid, was such expenses-and that means, money will be spent to allow a certain lifestyle, rather than on such things as cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, etc,

    This is nothing more than a way for Obama to get money to his friends in Planned Parenthood and make them independent of the legislative appropriations that don’t seem as guaranteed as they once were, both because of the removal of the over-sized gavel from Nasty Pelosi and impending fiscal doom. They used to give contraceptives away free, now they’ll be getting reimbursed from the federal government.

    By the way, it was “SCHIAVO”.

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    Thomas Crown is perfectly correct, and in fact trying to keep you from starting out on the wrong foot. Since you’re determined to ignore him, let me be explicit: you don’t get to moderate the site. People like me get to moderate the site, and we do not want your input. And that ‘your’ is specific, not general; if we ever need your help (again, specifically) we’ll let you know.

    The only acceptable response to this is “Yes, Moe.” As in, those two words and a N/T in the body of the comment. Problems with this or any part of site moderation policy may be directed to the Directors via the Contact link below.

  • greeneyeshade

    Obama will cave, he has no choice. Probably closer to the election so liberal Catholics will jump back on board.

    No he won’t. This is his doctrine.

    Everything he’s done on this has TWO intended effects. The first is to provide a steady revenue stream for unplanned no-parenthood and the second is to drive religion (ALL RELIGION) from the public square. He’s trying to get religious organizations that won’t subordinate their doctrines to the state, to withdraw from the “corporeal works of mercy”, in the same way Massachusetts drove the Church out of the adoption business.

    He’s simply identifying a target, attempting to freeze it, isolate it…

    He’s a bitter misanthrope.

  • wantthegopback

    Standing on conviction rather than doing what is political expedient is how you build a brand, and the opposite is how you destroy one.

  • Adjoran

    or even a “religious institutions” one as the Bishops have.

    What about the business owner who is morally opposed? Even if he is a pro-life atheist?

    The 1st Amendment doesn’t protect the churches’ and religious organizations’ rights, it protects us all. The rule doesn’t need to be amended to include exemptions for religious groups, it needs to be killed, period.

    Here’s hoping Mr. Justice Kennedy hasn’t forgotten the insult at the SOTU.

  • renl57

    Obama can’t cave, because he needs to raise that billion dollars to get himself re-elected.

    Much of that money comes from wealthy Hollywood liberals who have done more than anyone else to popularize a secular, anti-religious, pro-promiscuity culture in America. And they want “reproductive health” established as a government entitlement.

    Other money comes from EMILY’s List and other feminist groups. And they want “reproductive health” established as a government entitlement too.

  • renl57

    ….the Supreme Court long ago established that business owners have to comply with laws they find morally objectionable.

    That started when white business owners got slammed by the courts for refusing to treat black customers equally with white customers.

  • ragstoriches

    remains logically similar to the “but rape! and incest!” cry from those who seek to keep abortion legal, despite the statistically insignificant incidence of these events resulting in pregnancy- but what about women who are prescribed birth-control as a means to address some legitimate medical concern?

    There are numerous medical reasons why a woman might be prescribed birth control, generally any condition which responds positively to the manipulation of female hormones (I won’t bore you by getting into them.

    Suffice to say this is a legitimate argument that needs to be addressed before it, like rape and incest, become the hue and cry of the left. I believe most insurance policies cover any prescription that can be shown to be “medically necessary”, in which such prescriptions would fall, they may simply require a bit more documentation to prove necessity.

    Having chosen not to follow that path, however, I cannot speak even anecdotally to whether or not insurers would indeed cover BC if deemed medically necessary by a physician. I am not a fan of “risk of stroke” or several other side-effects associated with most medical birth control methods.

  • ragstoriches

    “He?s trying to get religious organizations that won?t subordinate their doctrines to the state, to withdraw from the ?corporeal works of mercy?, in the same way Massachusetts drove the Church out of the adoption business. ”

    And in doing so he’s finally shown his hand, one hopes, and exposed himself as the secular statist he truly is.

    He either accidentally or purposefully put his toe across a “line in the sand” that I don’t think the MSM recognized for what it was.

    How this plays out depends largely on whether the conservative message with respect to the breach of rights and overreach can reach the public.

  • The_Gadfly

    knows exactly what he did. It’s just that they are walking lock-step with him so they’re doing their best to cover for him.

  • The_Gadfly

    to get back on the constitutional path.

  • Viet71

    Thought I was pretty clear that IMO Obama was an idiot. He’s worse, in fact.

  • Viet71

    The issue here isn’t contraception. No zombies.

    It’s mandates. Plain and simple…except how does Obama get to order health insurance companies to provide BC pills? Has he not heard of or read the Fifth Amendment.

  • renny

    part of the mandate by Sebelius and conveniently ignores the abortificients and sterilization aspects, because they are not so easily massaged into “well, everyone is doing it” contraception theme.

    And also the MSM has left the conscientious objector (the real issue) question on the cutting room floor even though it regularly trumpets “freedom of expression” for the OWS mob.

  • http://alpipkin.com/blog/ Alpip

    Why do we continue to sit back and allow the opposition to frame the argument? They do so because they can’t logically defend their position, as I wrote recently on my blog.

  • stumpy

    it is medically necessary or not. If it is against a groups beliefs, they should never be required by the government to provide it. If you don’t want their job or insurance, you are free to find another one.

    One point I’ve heard little mention of is the cost. Many types of generic BC are available for $40/Mon or less. As greeneyeshade states above, it makes no sense to cover monthly low cost medications anyway. The cost is just not prohibitive for these items. Who wants them and cannot get them? I’ve to see one person. Simple math will tell you a child is more expensive than BC, if you try to use the financial argument.

    Another point is that we need to focus on the abortion drugs, not BC. That is a smaller volume, but would have broader support and be less suseptible to manipulation from the left. The real point is government intrusion, but abortion makes a better, quicker arguement. I’m not suggesting abandoning the principle for the actual pills, merely focus on the more unpopular components.

  • ladydoc

  • ladydoc

    Yes, the concept of 3rd party payers, be they employers or government entities like with Medicare, is something the general public has long been conditioned to expect that it rarely even occurs to anybody to question it. Kind of like nobody questions that water is wet. Just the briefest consideration leads any remotely logical person to conclude, “pretty darned odd when you think about it, actually”.

    I understand that the whole thing started among private companies as a means of enticing people to come work for a particularly labor-needy company that wanted to expand but was limited due to wage and price controls in effect at the time so this was the novel and alluring perk they offered….and over time, health insurance coverage became a practically obligatory offering for most companies for employees much above minimum wage. All, to the point that many patients I’ve seen hate their jobs but feel indentured to them because of the health care benefits and
    fears about pre-existing condition exclusions if they had to switch insurers with a new employer. The lack of portability with health insurance – which typically occurs with employer-based health insurance – is obviously unhelpful and frustrating to say nothing of the fact that patients’ previous doctor/s may not be covered or covered as well in the new employer’s plan and so the patient is having to switch doctors…as might be the case with his or her entire family. This can increase costs as well as sometimes more visits are recommended by the new doc or the patient due to their lack of familiarity with perhaps the patient’s Condition X…. Money – added to employees’ paychecks to be used as each individual employee sees fit to maintain his or her or family’s health would be the way to go….akin to how employers give us money to use to buy food!

    “Socializing” the healthcare of every man, woman and child is the exact opposite of the way to go. To say nothing of how unamerican (ie anti-individual) that would be, nor how poorly it would work despite utopian notions to the contrary, obviously no trampling of anyone’s religious liberty rights (eg as relates to abortion, abortion-inducing drugs which per manufacturers can include morning-after plan b and week-after ella plus potentially routine hormonal contraceptive drugs*, surgical sterilization, etc) would then occur. Of course the Obama administration delights in trampling on religious liberty rights and fostering a pro-abortion agenda whenever possible…so that would only make collectivized medicine all the more of a goal.

    *Note that many drug manufacturers will claim that their products “don’t end a pregnancy” – BUT they are commonly using the bogus re-defined “pregnancy” definition that claims “pregnancy” doesn’t begin until AFTER the offspring implants in the uterine wall…5-7 days AFTER the 23 chromosomes from the man paired with the 23 chromosomes from the woman yielded the unique new 46 chromosome human being. So, if you recognize that life begins once you have the unique 46-chromosome human being – and not when said human being is 5-7 days old – you might be very disturbed and anguished to discover the loophole in claims that morning-after, week-after or even routine oral “contraceptives” sometimes act in ways that cause the loss of your offspring before he or she has implanted in the uterus. Wish I was making this up:(. Most doctors aren’t even aware so read up and then inform them so patients will have true informed consent, at the very least.

  • ladydoc

    in 4th line from bottom, insert between the words “contraceptives” and “sometimes” the following:
    /”the patch”/ “the shot” ‘don’t end a pregnancy’. Unfortunately these appear to

  • ladydoc

    See my post above which reflects one reason why at least pro-lifers are increasingly reconsidering whether to use or prescribe or pay for it. (Pointing this out doesn’t mean I think that contraception itself should be a focus of presidential candidates, including the one trying to get re-elected. Which reminds me – where in the constitution does it suggest that the alleged “Leader of the Free World” has any obligation or authority in ensuring free “birth control” for all!? It’s absurd!)

    The Jan 20th Obama-Sebelius HHS edict was an exercise in raw [and usurped] executive power, to borrow and modify a phrase – that from one of the 2 dissenters in the Roe vs Wade abortion legalization decision.

    Roe vs Wade borrowed, in its flawed legal reasoning from the Griswold decision you mentioned and without Griswold, we wouldn’t have had Roe. My hunch is they’re trying to piggyback some abortion “right” (free abortions in “health care insurance” for everybody +/- something else) onto the current attempt to mandate free “birth control” for everyone.

  • ladydoc

    It’s all part of the con job of the Obama edict apologists- try to make thinking people assume they must have missed something because the way they understand things doesn’t make sense. Ah, no…”denying” ‘birth control’ coverage and not forcing it aren’t anywhere near the same thing – and Obama Edict apologists know that perfectly well. Typical of their tactics, try to confuse the public into assuming they must have misunderstood, gotten it wrong. Nope, you got it right the first time, Everyman.

  • ladydoc

    Nt

  • ladydoc

    “feminist”. They are not feminist – they are abortionist, as in meant to promote abortion. Eg “Abortionist groups like Emily’s List…”

    Language is very important in framing the way folks perceive an issue, group, or question so it’s good to think about.

  • ladydoc

    Obama’s endgame is to drive the Catholic Church out of healthcare (1/6 of the healthcare market if not higher; much higher in some regions), out of social services (eg Catholic Community Services, Catholic Charities) including adoption services, out of education – and then TAKEOVER (at fire sale prices to boot, unless utterly overt totalitarianism is in place by then, obviating the need). Then it’s abortions including the late term ones in every (including formerly Catholic) hospital and gyn office, assisted suicide and euthanasia for every expensive or disabled or “too old” or difficult patient, unconstrained by the clout and organizing ability of the bishops and other prominent Catholics. And it’s expanded in vitro fertilization leading to more widespread adoptions by same-sex pairs of “2 fathers” or “2 mothers” – because men and women are interchangeable after all, and 1 mother=1 father. It appears that the Catholic bishops have woken up as to at least part of this; if they stay awake and make up for decades of distraction, they may be able to turn around this impending disaster of totalitarianism and the even more imminent end of religious liberty in America that is necessary to facilitate the destruction of broader liberty in America.

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