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CPAC: Reagan, Gingrich, and Paul

By: Neil Stevens (Diary)  |  February 11th, 2011 at 05:00 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Every decade of conservatives has its hero. In fact, I think Ronald Reagan became the hero of the conservatives who came up in the 1970s and 1980s. He won the Cold War, he cut and then simplified taxes, he fought the unions, and he was an outspoken champion of the pro-life cause. He energized a movement, a party, and a country. It’s why many of us flew in for CPAC to an airport named for him.

In the 1990s, for those of us who were too young to appreciate President Reagan, we had Speaker Gingrich. “Newt is the man!” is what one CPAC blogger said to me, when I admitted I still enjoyed seeing him here as much as I did. I am a fan, not just an activist, when it comes to Gingrich. He broke a 40 year old hold the Democrats had on the House, he introduced Americans to the 10th amendment, he smashed up the old, destructive welfare system, and he cut spending to the point that the national debt went down.

Looking around at CPAC now though, seeing the students here and watching the excitement, it’s clear to me that the youth coming up today have their own hero, and his name is Ron Paul.

I know: Ron Paul has no chance of becoming President. I already know every criticism there is of the man. But much as with Reagan and Gingrich, I think the youth in their idealism are oblivious to the criticisms and the political issues involved, and are in love with the idea of Ron Paul.

To the young people wearing Campaign for Liberty stickers, Ron Paul isn’t the porker who hasn’t accomplished anything in his long DC career but to spin conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve. He is the idea of small government, respect for the Constitution, and a stable economy. It doesn’t matter that his monetary ideas would be a disaster for every American with a mortgage – not just all Americans who got in over their heads, but all Americans with debt – because that doesn’t matter yet to college kids. The details don’t matter; it’s the spirit that counts.

If that sounds silly, remember that the previous heroes also had their faults. Ronald Reagan put Justices O’Connor and Kennedy on the court, raised taxes on many families when he passed the tax simplification, and created our current illegal immigration crisis by signing an amnesty coupled with impractical employment restrictions.

Newt Gingrich? He didn’t last as Speaker nearly as long as he could have, he lost the media war of the government shutdown, he allowed himself to get bogged down in ethics controversies (just like Sarah Palin!), and in the end he left a House GOP that was all too comfortable with letting spending go back up.

We all know this, but in the end we weigh the ideas these men represented and fought for, against the nitpicking failures, and we celebrate the ideas in the end. Reagan is remembered as a hero, Gingrich as a winner, and yes, many of the young people of today have a crush on the ideas Ron Paul represents, regardless of what the practical reality looks like.

I’m not sure what this means for the party in the next 20 years, but I think we’ll have to find a way to make peace. I’m not calling for a truce, but we’ll have to deal with it.

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  • http://www.coloradans4palin.com bjwilson83

    You guys must be really desperate to defeat Palin (as evidenced by your unfunny snark – are you really promoting the “ethically challenged Palin” canard?) Palin embodies everything that the youth love about Paul, but she has the details down too. I don’t know what your deal with Palin is, but surely if you can support Paul you can support her.

  • paultimmerar

    I’m 26, live in Arkansas. Have a ton of young conservatives i’ve met and talked to all over this state. We all think Ron Paul is a wingnut and two screws loss of a “three legged stool”. So the young people you see at CPAC who love Ron Paul. Are the same ones who watch Zeitgeist, Alex Jones, 9/11 Conspiracy movies. They are also two screws short. SO…how many of them just didn’t have anything to do, messaged each other on facebook or drove miles just told chant “Ron Paul”. But really, if you talk to them they have no substance, either in life, or what they know about the world. Trust me, go start a “normal” discussion with them….then come tell me what you think.

  • rdelbov

    is not a conservative or a republican. Other then that he is just fine.

    I don’t see any evidence that young people, other then those bused in, are for Ron Paul.

  • paultimmerar

    These are kids who don’t have a truelly patriotic bone in their body. They don’t know, have, or grew up in a military family or lifestyle. They barely know why anyone would volunteer for the military. They have no clue why my Dad is retired Air Force and veteran of Desert Storm, or why my brother joined the Air Force two years ago. These kids may be conservatives in most lights…but they are lonely and find the only thing in “true” common with each toher is they have a “fear” of going to war. They have a “fear” of actually having to serve in the military. They “fear” being forced to go to war. They have no idea of voluntering to be in the armed forces, and why people do it. Its like a “Breakfast Club” to them, to be anti-war it gives thema common bond, like libs have “anti war clubs”, “tree hugging clubs”, “koch protest clubs” and so on…its their only common thread that they can discuss in depth blah blah

  • paultimmerar

    Can we have a few people at CPAC standing behind them witha video camera asking them questions in depth about a few issues…and also…put some astro-turf on a broom stick and go stand in the middle of them. And video tape the reaction.

  • jiminga

    that makes everybody else look sane. He cannot beat Obama as he is as far right as Obama is far left. And Newt’s definitely not a hero…he left behind a string of sordid affairs and a Democrat controlled congress, all the while blowing his own horn (which he is still doing).

    Reagan? He’s the real hero, having defeated the USSR and fostering the greatest economic expansion of the 20th century.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    is CPAC attendance?

  • Bill S

    He said NOTHING about Palin. Do not bring it up again on this thread. If you want to talk about Sarah Palin, do it in another diary.

  • acat
  • Scope

    I’ve seen posted here at Redstate evah, especially by a moderator. Have we really gone from banning “Paulbots” outright to now embracing them? Has he changed his policies, positions, or anything else that has caused this turn around? Or is this another Melissa Clouthier group hug kinda thing? Just askin’.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • givemeliberty

    As a young conservative I can see some of the constitutional issues that Mr. Paul raises have their merits. However, anyone who implies that we are some how the cause of the 9/11will never have my support.

  • acat

    Or even in the primary.

    CPAC is, in a way, about who’s willing to spend money. Some similiarity to the superbowl – the ones with the commercials are the ones who can afford it…

    Watch for Luap Nor to also win the CPAC straw poll … just as he did last time, and with about as much impact. He can buy it, so he does.

    To anyone who understands this, it means nothing. The harder part is making sure enough voters in the primary and the general get this wisdom, eh? (especially if he also buys a good enough showing in Iowa…)

    Mew

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m at CPAC and I report what I see. It’s called k
    Objective journalism

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    Superior firepower is a favorite of mine.

  • runner12

    I am young, but wise enough to see the foolishness of some of Rep. Paul’s beliefs.

  • EagleWatcher

    John Hinderarker over at Powerline talked about Ron and said he was a “very bad man.”

    Paul produced a news letter viciously attack MLK. He viciously attack gays. He was the only one to vote against condemning Julian Assange.

  • mikeevergreen

    Young people like Ron Paul because he’s anti-establishment. He’s a rebel. He says things that other people will not say because it would ruin their political careers. Ron Paul doesn’t care and that’s why many young people like him.

  • mikeevergreen

    You don’t have to volunteer for the military to be patriotic.

  • hiimallen

    “They ?fear? being forced to go to war.”

    The George Bush you forgot
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J790V1QV84E

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    He is the guy who makes your parents frown. Like when I went through my heavy metal phase.

  • http://www.spartanburgteaparty.org karenmartin

    … before I’d make a comparison to Reagan. When viewed with mature and discerning eyes, it’s impossible to understand, yet it exists.

  • Scope

    that other people will not say, for good reason. Every time he opens his mouth, it is only to exchange feet. You are also correct that he is a rebel, fortunately he is a rebel with in search of a bad cause. You youngins’s haven’t the foggiest idea of how life and government really works. You just know that Paul will insure all the weed you want. He has sold all you young people a bag of goods, and, you all follow him, like the pied piper, in case he might drop a bud or two along the way.

  • mikeevergreen

    I think there are some who haven’t grown out of their heavy metal phase or their Ron Paul phase.

    People here may not like this, but Ron Paul says things that sound intuitively true.

  • sailingaway

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41

    In the interests of full disclosure, he was included in a more recent poll right after the Arizona shootings were painted as tea party driven, and was lower. He was still 2 points closer to Obama than Sarah Palin (and to her supporters, I’m not suggesting she’s all bad, I’m just addressing this point). He was one point further from Obama than Gingrich.

    It isn’t the general election where his issues are, it is in the primaries. A lot of the people who left the GOP and are now independent support him. Unless they reregister and vote for him in the party, that doesn’t help. I do realize that. But he isn’t anyone’s crazy uncle. His supporters just have more difficulty mobilizing in a party primary.

    PPP was trying to push him to run independent all spring and summer, reporting his strength with independents. It wasn’t until his son won the Senate seat that they decided they might be playing with fire. However, Ron won’t run independent, just as he didn’t last time. Is it too much just to show the same respect you show other candidates you don’t agree with?

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    and probably a counter productive argument. You will just remind this guy that Ron makes the old folks frown, that increases his cool factor.

    But if the only controversial cause espoused by RP was decriminalization of Marijuana, then he would be mainstream.

  • mikeevergreen

    People have a need to admire people who are alive today.

  • streiff

    they’re p***ies

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It was only when I was at CPAC that I realized how overrun the th ing is with students.

    That’s why Paul wins the straw polls. I’d love to see the straw poll results released with and without students.

  • congressworksforus

    The same can be said about the youth of the left-wing movement.

    In fact, they’re worse. At least the Paul supporters have some semblance of intelligence. The leftists can’t even string two sentences together, unless they’re talking about legalizing pot or repealing DADT.

    However… unlike the leaders of the left-wing movement, we crap all over the Paul supporters, instead of using them to reach our end goals.

    Say one thing for the left-wing leadership — they know how to corral the troops a heck of a lot better than we do. Maybe we should get off our high horses for a change and learn a valuable lesson instead of laughing *publicly* at those we privately ridicule.

    Even if they do deserve the scorn we give them.

  • http://www.spartanburgteaparty.org karenmartin

    I did not make a comparison of Paul to Che (can hear the screaming now)

  • IJB

    (And I’m saying that as someone who’s not a veteran.)

  • jcrestonm

    I concur, we should not completely exclude the Libertarian leaning conservatives from any discussion or CPAC. We tend to agree with them on many things. I just wish we could get them to be more respectful at events like CPAC.

    I haven’t heard of Rush telling Water E. Williams to not guest host his program after he endorsed Ron Paul in 2008. (Although I haven’t heard him host recently…I think Mark Steyn has become the most popular guest host)

  • IJB

    …But the claims you’ve made put you so far out on the branch, that I’m pretty it’s already broken. It’s absurd to claim that Newt “left behind a Democrat controlled Congress”. Please try to color in between the lines next time.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • IJB
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Even Che wouldn’t have referred to the massacres in South Vietnam after the Communists invaded with such neutral terms as “cleaning up,” as Ron Paul did in the 2008 debates.

  • hiimallen

    I’m saying “The draft is bad”
    Especially when it comes to worthless, no-win military adventurism that kills innocent people.

  • http://www.thejoyofreason.com Greg Garrison

    …because that would be a laughable non sequitur if we had an all-volunteer army.

  • haumea

    Let me explain why.

    He actually has some semblance of a grand strategy (see “To Save America”) to defeat what he calls the “secular-socialist” left. Everyone else is simply mouthing the expected anti-big gov’t rhetoric.

    If we do not get a president with the same breadth of vision, we are truly and well-screwed as far out as the eye can see.

    In absence of candidates to offer something comparable, I would support a Newt candidacy. Yes, they will try to destroy him with personal attacks, but he is a big boy and can defend himself.

  • hiimallen

    We do….
    Lets keep it that way, thank you.

  • haumea

    …has a very dark soul. He is a very bad man indeed.

  • Tbone

    Same youth mindset.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Others respect those who do.

    Still others yell “Show us the shekels” at Vice President Cheney.

    We know which group you fall in.

    This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I said I’m not calling for a truce. You can’t have a truce with this stuff.

  • Jack_Savage

    I am really beginning to like this guy…

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/02/11/donald-trump-at-cpac-ron-paul-cannot-get-elected

  • Bill S

    I was still working…

  • streiff

    anyone who is afraid of the draft should start taking their meds regularly and the fear will go away. Along with the voices.

    if you’re going to keep spouting this RonPaul bull you not going to be here very long.

  • streiff

    you’re gone

  • Bill S

    He probably should have gone after his first RS comment.

  • williamjameson

    did was mention Palin’s Ethics Complaints as governor and many of the above went off the deep end because they failed to grasp the context of the statement.

  • williamjameson

    Trump will have to work hard to convince me otherwise. The man is more interested in running his reality show up thru May and then decide in June……….talk about commitment issues. If a dopey reality show takes precendent over the country then the number 2 slot is all Trump deserves.

    The tough talk from Trump is admirable but would he follow through and would China respond it kind. I doubt both. In fact, we’ll end up in a trade war and see Chinese dumping our debt on the open market to drive down the dollar. Fyi, we borrow from OPEC countries too so till we drive down the deficit we’re dependent on the chicoms and the arabs.

    No doubt Trump will walk those statements back if he gains ground if he runs. Can a blow hard debate FP and make friends with NATO countries after Obama nixed them? Trump has many more negatives not too mention skeletons in his closet. And lets not forget the failed Casino biz and Trump abandoning his company during his second marriage.

    Trump is better suited with Veep tasks rather than running the government. He’ll never take the number 2 job so we’ll see how he progresses coming into June.

  • Scope

    From what I understand, CPAC is crawling with Paulies. That would be the Paulies that came on their own, plus the Paulies that the Paulie leaders gave free tickets to. I just don’t see the connection between the Paulie youth overtaking the conservative movement, simply because they are louder, are more rude, and try to shout out those that haven’t gotten behind the pied piper of the current political movement, Ron Paul. I would call him their God, but I respect the meaning of the real GOD. Actually GOD gets in their way.

  • Scope

    It is a good night knowing that this windbag will never attain a higher position than he has, and, his windbaggery has put him on every level beyond anything even remotely resembling mainstream. Can you come up with any other argument for Ron Paul other than his support for weed, and releasing druggies from prison? You brought up the drug thing. There are a wealth of other issues to knock him for.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    it is understandable that the young seek out a person that simplifies issues and seems a purist. And overall it does at least gets the young involved with conservatives and Republicans.

  • http://parsoned.blogspot.com parsoned

    Why do you say Paul’s monetary policy would be a disaster for anyone with a mortgage?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • JadedByPolitics

    they reminded me of the moonies in the seventies….there is NO THERE, THERE behind their eyes.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    In my opinion Trump has too many negatives to be a serious candidate. Right now no one has attacked him, but in a primary and a general election he will take a beating. Bankruptcy, marriage problems, etc. He is also a showboat so his mouth and desire to grab the press will work against him. At best, the man would be a nightmare to try and manage or to keep on message.

    Now, with that being said, 2012 may be a unique year.

  • bobmontgomery

    ….and I really wonder about that. Are they really Paul supporters or are they trolls? Or just New Age PC and ‘all that’? Is it characteristic of Paul supporters to jeer American patriots?
    This whole CPAC thing , with the Prouders and the MuBroHoods and the anti-patriot carrying on is leaving a foul taste. I hope the RedState attendees come away with an appreciation that there is a lot more to be done in this country than just winning elections and governing. The culture and the infrastructure are pretty much ingrained and entrenched.

  • http://minorcan-maven.blogspot.com/ minorcanmaven

    What was THAT about, I couldn’t get a handle on what element of the crowd did that, but I didn’t appreciate it. All in all, I have been disappointed in the overall effect of CPAC this year…don’t understand what’s going on with that. Time for a new PAC?

  • Bill S

    shows that his comments rapidly degenerate into a 200-comment thread about Palin. While Palin’s name was mentioned in the post, there was pretty much zero relevance to her. We are going to be paying closer attention to threadjacking, as it has become a pretty big problem. Diarists write on a particular subject, not so someone can take it over for their pet issue.

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    From what I gather the Paul supporters staged a walkout of his introducion of Rumsfeld. Some even yelled insults like draft dodger and war criminal. Drudge had a link earlier.

  • bobmontgomery
  • Finrod

    In fact, they should have been shown to the door, pushed out it if necessary, then had the door locked behind them.

  • Bill S
  • rightwingmom52

    Ron Paul has at least kept my not yet fully matured 20 year old son from going totally liberal. To my dismay, he is more apathetic than anything, but he does identify himself as a libertarian and Ron Paul fan which I find easier to stomach than if he called himself a liberal like many of his college friends.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    at ANY Republican function.

  • acat

    http://sweasel.com/wp-content/themes/weasel/graphics/zombiereagan.php

    I’d vote for the Zombie Reagan / Sarah Palin ticket.

    Mew

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    of a birther, truther, enabler of Nazi sympathizers.

    Ron Paul should have been tossed from the Republican House Caucus. The very idea that this idiot is allowed to put an “R” behind his name is a shame on our party.

  • acat

    He can’t, with his “messy personal life”, make the sale to the SoCons without something to offer that none of the other candidates have… which he ain’t got.

    Romney out-establishments Newt. So does Barbour. Daniels runs close to Newt in terms of insider status. None of them are doing well with the Tea Partiers, so why would Newt?

    Sorry. Newt was Clinton’s opponent, he’s not the future.

    Mew

  • http://minorcan-maven.blogspot.com/ minorcanmaven
  • http://minorcan-maven.blogspot.com/ minorcanmaven
  • Marcus_Traianus

    So, I will take this back if the article is a not-so-well-disguised flush out the trolls diversion. But;

    - Newt is a has-been living off history. His moment in the Sun is done. Move on. Write another book or something.

    - Ron Paul? He just shows what an abject failure the Republican party has been with its outreach to younger voters. The man is Jim Jones, reading quotes from the Constitution, distorting them and then presenting his view as some type of Dostoevsky existentialism. And the clowns cheers while drinking the kool-aid? It simply aptly shows the joke CPAC has become. It’s like a freak show of te strange and unusual. Yes, I know- the big hold your breath moment is when Romney, Paul or some other perennial loser wins the straw poll.

    Maybe they can have an “after-party” with Ron speaking on the Federal Reserve, GOProud on DOMA and the Muslim Brotherhood on women’s rights.

    Big tent my Aunt Sally. It’s like a lean-to where they invite every warm body passing by in for warmth.

  • aesthete

    to RONPAUL fans.

  • rightwingmom52

    with Ron Paul, not the 3 beliefs you mention. Since he chooses to distance himself from politics, he is woefully ignorant of real data. But he starting to listen when I talk politics, and at least we have common ground on the smaller government issue which he perceives as a libertarian cause. I can’t think of anything I have in common with the views of his liberal friends.

  • rightwingmom52

    with Ron Paul, not the 3 beliefs you mention. Since he chooses to distance himself from politics, he is woefully ignorant of real data. But he starting to listen when I talk issues, and at least we have common ground on the smaller government issue which he perceives as a libertarian cause. I can’t think of anything I have in common with the views of his liberal friends.

  • rightwingmom52
  • aesthete

    There are plenty of good philosophical reasons to be anti-war, and some very moral ones, as well — many of the religious groups who’s adherents emigrated to America, such as the Quakers, were devoutly and resolutely opposed to war from a “” standpoint. When it comes down to it, I don’t agree with the anti-war folks: I’ve never been anti-war as far as I can remember, I grew up as a military family, and I even did a very brief stint in the USAF (rather liked it, too).

    That said, anyone who hasn’t at some point seriously considered their arguments and the necessity of war really has no business sending anyone to war or talking about the subject as one with wisdom. There are plenty of college kids who are cowards, sure, but not all of them are, and it is not unpatriotic to question the necessity or validity of violence as a way to resolve conflict: it would, after all, be silly to characterize Gandhi as anti-India due to his extreme pacifism.

    It makes more sense to say that the views of most college kids on the subject aren’t fully developed, than to imply that, to a person, they “don?t have a truelly [sic] patriotic bone in their body”. Today’s weak pacifists might well surprise you by becoming tomorrow’s wizened conservatives with a good grasp on the proper use of military force, strengthened in their convictions as a result of having given thought to the issue when they were young. There is merit in pointing out the flaws of pacifism on the part of the nation-state; there is not merit to tarring all pacifists as unpatriotic.

    /threadjack

  • aesthete

    Good riddance. What does this have to do with RONPAUL or pacifism, again?

  • roguebeaver

    But also a poignant reminder of the perils of the difference between admiration/respect/like of a politician and orgasmic cultishness displayed by Paultards, some Palin supporters and some O-bots. Reagan was Reagan, Gingrich should run if for no other reason than to prevent us from falling asleep during the debates. To paraphrase Healey, seeing Romney/Pawlenty/Barbour “attacking” each other is like being savaged by a dead shee, and the more voices the better. However he’s well past his best-before date and better at continuing to be a leading intellectual and policy voice in the party, plus churning out awesome ACW counterfactuals.

    I don’t see the problem with this year’s conference, Paulites were a minority. Abandoning CPAC just because of them is silly and counterproductive IMO.

  • the_invisible_hand

    While his 2008 campaign did not show much in the way of electoral success, but I think he won the message war.

    Really, his only competition for passion among supporters is Palin.

    I know it isn’t popular to say it here, but Ron Paul’s 2008 campaign was the frontrunner to the Tea Party and on economic issues (and some foreign policy ones) he is speaking for young people.

    You don’t have to like it. You don’t have to like Paul. But they are a part of the party and we will not be successful without them in a national campaign.

  • aesthete

    where he painted the post-Vietnam War SE Asia as having moved rapidly towards democracy and liberalism, while skipping right over the Killing Fields, the Boat People, Communist dictatorship in Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos, and massive instability and insecurity in SE Asia. We held on to Thailand and the other non-communist governments afterwards by the skin of our teeth, and with lots of funding for military and economic growth (something like 75% of the cost for new factories in S Korea was fronted by the US during the Cold War). Ron Paul is a dangerous fool, and his elision of the horrors that SE Asia had to go through to get to the point where it was moderately free (it’s still one of the most unfree regions of the world), is but one example of Ron Paul’s profoundly troubled worldview.

  • aesthete

    if that: he’s run a half dozen of his father’s companies into the ground, has an irrational protectionist bent, and has said or done nothing that would indicate that he is either prepared for the office of the Presidency, or particularly conservative (recall that his choice for 2008 was Hillary Clinton).

  • powertothepeople

    at all, ever, never. And if you think Ron Paul, regardless of some poll, would pull anywhere near 40% in any election, I have some lakefront property in the Mohave I want to sell you cheap.

    Since we have no clue as to what the questions were on the poll, it is a worthless piece of paper.They could have simply asked if your choice was RP or Obama, who would you chose. And if that was the case, most would answer the same way even had the question been would you chose a dried dog turd or Obama in the next election. But then again, that would be the same as the first question.

    If you can not tell, we have no respect for Ron Paul or his moronic sheep. Continue posting pro Ron Paul nonsense and the wolves will come out in mass numbers against you. Just a friendly piece of advice.

  • powertothepeople

    sometimes trash has a useful purpose. I turn a lot of trash into great mulch………..

  • powertothepeople

    the party would just crumble and die without the moronic sheep of Ron Pauls flock.

    Get real….

    By the way, Ron Paul is as much the front runner, creator, leader, or mentor of the Tea Party as I am king of the USA.

  • aesthete

    And now we’ve come full circle…

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m just saying they each have emotional followings that forget the bad and focus on ideas.

  • unapologetic_american

    It’s an insult to metal. I’m still a fan of metal (especially 90′s grunge) and a diehard conservative to boot. I wish further effort was placed into discrediting the stereotype that all conservatives listen to country/western music.

    p.s.- This is my first post on redstate. Please be easy on me! lol

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    …t hen the Libertarian Party wouldn’t have the singular dishonor o fhaving run the most candidates in a single House election without ever electing a single member.

    You guys are an epic failure.

  • aesthete

    Just about the only things I won’t listen to are country/western and reggae.

  • nilram

    Can we repeal the 26th amendment now?

  • http://www.coloradans4palin.com bjwilson83

    Other may lack the courage to do it, but I will defend Palin when she is unfairly attacked.

  • http://www.coloradans4palin.com bjwilson83

    it’s been interesting to watch the online poll battles between Palin and Paul (though somehow you guys missed the spectator poll). The fox news final poll tomorrow is going to be fun. Especially since you can vote over and over again – meaning that the winner will be the side that gets people to click the most! :P

  • http://www.coloradans4palin.com bjwilson83

    Apparently wordpress doesn’t have a stick out the tongue face? :P

  • audax
  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    if the drug thing were the only position that was not orthodox conservative then he would not be such a bad candidate. Although you take a hard line drug war stance, there are many, and an increasing number, of conservatives who are less than enchanted with continuing this failed policy.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    you are pathetic. You are obsessed with her, and like all obsessed people you are boring.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    by wars fought when your nation is not directly threatened. There are many who would support a war against a nation that attacked us, or even attacked a close ally, but they are less than enchanted with “pre-emptive” wars and police actions. And also suspicious of attempts at nation building.

    For myself, I supported almost everything we did during the cold war, only to discover later that (1) at no time was the Soviet Union ever as strong as we had estimated, and (2) many of the despots we supported only earned us hatred in the rest of the world.

    And now I feel even less of a need to go mucking around in the internal affairs of other nations. After we finally remove ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan we ought to think long and hard before we get involved anywhere else.

  • zizzer

    Just sayin’.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I love reggae, and blues. But I could never listen to the hair music I grew up with, My old dad told me it was garbage, and he was right!

  • zizzer

    If RP got his way with monetary policy, there would be immediate effects and they would not be pretty. However, the flawed policies that lead up to it are to blame, not him correcting them. The longer we delay the inevitable by meddling around in the free market with central planning, the worse the downfall is going to be.

  • zizzer

    …are much more knowledgeable about current events than the College Republican variety who vote based on party affiliation only. Young lefties are even more familiar with what’s going on than young Republicans… they just misinterpret the current events more.

  • Christine (Trelaina)

    “You don?t have to like it. You don?t have to like Paul. But they are a part of the party…”

    Yeah, so are the entrenched elitist RINOs that the “Ron Paul inspired” (yeah, right) Tea Party is trying to push out.

    If we just HAVE to listen to the RONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL crazys and support their views in our party, do we also have to listen to the RINOs and let them stay in charge? Because that’s what THEY want.

    We have to have a party we can stand behind. I don’t stand anywhere near Ron Paul OR the manic wing of his followers.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    When I was in college, (granted it was a long time ago) It was the left who were completely ignorant. They had an opinion on everything, an opinion supplied with their talking points, but the actual time they spend thinking and learning in depth about any issue was minimal.

    We few conservatives had read many books, pro and con about every issue we cared about, and those that we knew little about we were honest enough not to have an opinion.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    They can click, but they can’t pull.

  • streiff

    and either you know it or you should know it. That crap is based on the number of donors who wrote that as their occupation, not the number who gave.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    “Career-limiting move”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It’s obvious the typical Ronulan doesn’t know anything about paying a mortgage bill every month, when you talk about your central planning of the dollar and government price-fixing of commodities.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You call them ignorant because they reject your conspiracy theories.

  • jimmyneutron

    fiscal, social, etc. I don’t like Newt mainly because of his willingness to see Gov’t as the solution to so many problems. He strikes me as an insider these days and a professional politician. I was very unhappy with his stand on global warming and how he reacted to NY23 – looked like he had his finger up to see which way the wind was blowing. I won’t even talk of his divorce as that is not my concern and I havent paid any attention. However, if he or any other candidate commits adultery then they are off the table completely for me.
    I am not a fan of Romney for similar reasons – he should have politically ‘died’ opposing any gov’t run health care rather than signing one into law and then defending it as something smart. Seems like another person who thinks gov’t is the answer if it is just run by smarter people. (Why doesn’t that argument ever die??????)
    No sure about Daniels.
    As for Ron Paul – I honestly haven’t followed him all that closely. I never like it when ann idea or person is reduced to a single word or idea and then belittled – that always strikes me as disengenuous. (Paulbots, birthers, Palinistas etc). I suspect that liberals are behind such things to discredit any idea they don’t like – I know that is too simple, but I don’t want to take the time to fully explore that now. Anyway, I dont agree with him on foreign policy and I am not knowledgable enough on economics to know if his ideas on the fed are true or false, but where he is saying that we need to seriously cut federal spending (to the point of reducing ‘non discretionary’ spennding and abolishing entire agencies, I am in complete agreement.
    Mitch Daniels – I will withhold judgement until I hear more about and from him.
    I am not holding my breath waiting for Ronald Reagan to appear, but I will know when someone is cut from the same cloth because their words, works and life will point in the same direction and come from the same tree of ideas.

  • jaydickb

    Gingrich has lots of baggage, but he would decimate Obama in a debate. He is much smarter and much much more knowledgeable. He has a proclivity toward gaffs, but he might be able to correct this.

    As a president, I’m afraid he would tend to be a statist, much like G.W. Bush. He also tends too much toward extreme environmentalism.. He is on the global warming alarmist and ethanol bandwagon big time. Pity; it would be quite entertaining to see him debate Obama. We must remember that entertainment is not the most important aspect of the 2012 election.

  • belcatar

    Neil’s post talks about the idea of Ron Paul, which in its pure form is the ideal conservatives are striving for. (limited government, individual liberty, etc.) So I’m wondering if its possible that Ron Paul could actually be a positive force by bringing in young, passionate people who could then be educated and improved by sensible leaders.

    How many of those Ron Paul chanting kids would be at home playing Halo Reach and eating Cheetos if CPAC was headlined by Mitt Romney and Susan Collins? (Just an example.)

    Seems like simply dismissing Ron Paul’s supporters without at least attempting to tap in to their energy might be wasting a good resource.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    to pure ones.

  • the_invisible_hand

    You make a post observing Paul’s hold on young people and you aren’t a Paulite. I concur and you call me a failure and Paulite?

    How does that make sense?

  • jerry39

    But Paul’s anti war stance is not what attracts most of them. they may buy into it, but its not the lead in. I think Moe hit that on the head.I

  • dajeeps

    The only one close to my ideal candidate was Pence. The rest of them have more baggage than solutions, or more ambition than honor, all of which will have an impact on their effectiveness.

    Ronald Reagan gave people something to count on. He wasn’t perfect, but he was determined and delivered what we wanted – opportunity to pursue happiness and make our own destiny. And he had the kind of temperment and personality to get it done. I see this in no one in the potential lineup so far. There is likely no such hero this time, but a compromise candidate that may or may not succeed; it’s all a gamble no matter which one ends up on top.

  • bk

    It’s a lot easier to work with young adults who want the government out of everything period than it is the ones who want the government out of the defense business but controlling every aspect of our lives.

  • bk

    If they want us never to go to war, shouldn’t they think draft-dodging was a good thing?

    This is the problem with the Ronulans – they are incredibly obnoxious and believe whatever they think at any given moment is The Only Truth.

  • bk
  • zizzer

    I would think that when you receive more money from donors who claim to be retired military than any other candidate, you were about to raise more money from retired military that any other candidate.

    Are you just saying, “That stat is bs because Ron Paul fans must have lied”?

    You don’t have to be anti-military to want us to spend perhaps only twice as much as anybody else in the world on defense or to not want us to occupy 135 other countries.

  • zizzer

    Sorry about that.

  • zizzer

    So how can you claim I don’t know anything about paying one?

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
  • grandma

    We need a larger room in order to defeat the left. The left learned this years ago.

  • grandma

    Correct. I’m a Hoosier Tea Partier and agree.

  • grandma

    If you want a “pure theology” republican party,

  • grandma

    what was supposed to be one sentence.

  • grandma

    been infiltrated with boors and dolts? Just like any other movement?

  • grandma

    - along with Semper Paratus.

  • Scope

    hasn’t been infiltrated with boors and dolts, it is the boors and dolts that started it, beginning with the biggest boor and dolt of all Ron Paul.

  • acat

    (and I have to tell ya, it’s a little weird to type that…) (grin)

    Congratulations on your next Governor, by the way. Pence should do very well for Indiana.

    As to the statist-republicans, big-government-republicans, I’m happy to help you toss ‘em! If we end up wtih a little breakage, maybe it’ll help teach the rest to keep their mouths shut.

    Mew

  • grandma

    I know a lot of senior tea partyiers who held their noses while voting for McCain but would have preferred Paul.

    The thought that all his supporters are just snot nosed druggie kids is totally foolish.

    Not recognizing Paul people in the GOP is dangerous and antagonistic.

  • acat

    Can you think of another department where “You’re fired” needs to be said more?

    Mew

  • streiff

    you’re ignoring that virtually all military members who make donations do so using their spouse’s name so they aren’t identified. Same with civil service.

    If you want to extol Ron Paul’s cribbed, distorted and perverse views on defense policy and the lack of manliness on the part of his followers go to another blog. I’m not going to have it here.

  • grandma

    He has stimulated them in a positive manner.

  • streiff

    any other questions?

  • streiff

    that doesn’t mean we should either court them or take them seriously. Ron Paul uses the GOP as a flag of convenience. His supporters are chumps.

  • powertothepeople

    what other 133 countries do we occupy. To occupy a country is to be in charge of said country through military force. Last time I checked, we have bases in many countries but only occupy two and even claiming we occupy two is a technicality.

    And quite frankly, we all want military waste cut, But if it takes 100 times the money other countries spend to keep our military the strongest in the world and on the cutting edge of technology, we should spend it. Waste is one thing, judging our spending on other countries and how much they spend is moronic.

  • aesthete

    but potential needs to be harnessed and to some degree directional to be useful.

  • grandma

    doesn’t do the “Gary thing” for Joe Donnelly. My guess is Donnelly will run against Pence.

    I wish those three cities would secede from Indiana and be annexed to the contender for Detroit West (Chicago).

    Also, I’d love to halt the influx of Illinois people into Indiana. The libs are messing with the reddness of our state.

  • aesthete

    are “occupied” by embassies or very small airstrips/naval bases (neither being an occupation, and both being legitimate functions of a world-class military). There’s plenty of sprawl in the Army that we could probably do without, and some redundant bases that just won’t go away quickly enough, but by and large, “military waste” is concentrated in the US of A, not other countries. Mission creep for the Armed Forces over the last 20 years has been problematic, but the 135 countries factoid is deceptive.

  • Jack_Savage

    And I heard a couple of boos at the beginning, then quite a few very loud cheers. I think Ron Paul has worn out his welcome, as have his supporters.

  • aesthete

    Though I do think that sometimes, support of a dictator is necessary, as it was during the Cold War. I also believe that sometimes, a dictator can be the best of a set of bad options (Chile, many of “our” dictators in the Far East, S Korea, Peru, and Turkey etc are good examples). If it comes right down to it, I would rather prop up a dictator with the CIA or engage in punitive expedition (bombing runs, SF stuff) than occupy a country long-term. We really should never, *never* interlope in the domestic affairs of other countries if they are not a significant threat to our national interests: our interventions in the Balkans and Africa are complete and total wastes of time, lives, and taxpayer dollars.

    The genius of Reagan was not that he was a warmonger; if anything, he was much less given to war as a conflict resolver than past Presidents, and avoided several of the boondoggles that both conservatives and liberals wanted him to engage in (there was a brief push to defend Afghanistan using our troops, for instance). Given the intelligence we had, I think that our vigorous efforts in the Cold War were justified (even if there was some unfortunate fallout).

  • Jack_Savage

    I could go beat my head against the brick front wall of my house every day for a year, do it enthusiastically and energetically, and accomplish nothing.

  • zizzer

    And I don’t take it as an insult.

  • zizzer

    There are many professional economists who agree with him on his views of the Federal Reserve.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    And, based on your limited commentary, on matters of economics and I’m pretty sure on matters of foreign policy, you’re an ignorant fool. Goes along with being a Ronulan.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    doesn’t make sound policy.

  • rbdwiggins

    </snark off…

    Mitt Romney is second with 23%.

    The balance of the field:

    Gary Johnson 6%
    Chris Christie 6%
    Newt Gingrich 5%
    Tim Pawlenty 4%
    Michele Bachmann 4%
    Mitch Daniels 4%
    Sarah Palin 3%
    Herman Cain 2%
    Mike Huckabee 2%
    Rick Santorum 2%
    John Thune 2%
    Jon Huntsman 1%
    Haley Barbour 1%

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Because I (and Bill) said so.

    This is not up for debate here.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Wow. You agree with Paul that the Fed bankrolled Oswald, Watergate, and Saddam Hussein?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
  • rbdwiggins
  • GregInFla

    If they held the straw poll AFTER Allen West’s speech, I don’t think that Romney would have been number 2.

  • rbdwiggins

    Although Allen West’s speech was spot-on, Romney’s base is committed, and his percentage of the vote hasn’t really changed much from past performance.

  • kingsley

    You’re right about his campaign basically kicking off the Tea Party thing. I remember the Paul supporters holding tea party types of rallies during that campaign. I remember later hearing about more “tea party” stuff and I thought it was about Paul. Turned out the Republicans had basically just co-opted some of the message.

  • kingsley

    Back during the 2008 campaign I came around here and saw that everyone was bashing Paul and Paul supporters, and I tried to explain to you that he was representing a part of the Republican party that was going to slip away if you guys kept up your dismissive tactics. Specifically, the fiscally conservative, socially liberal segment of the party that has no other options in the party.

    What a lot of young people feel about the Republican party is that it’s full of liars. People who say they want to reduce government spending and then do the opposite once elected. Also, if you’re an anti-war Republican, who else could you possibly turn to?

    You are right that people are drawn to his ideals as opposed to the man himself. He’s obviously not electable. But his stated ideals of being against war, reducing military spending through non-interventionist policy, ending the wasteful and pointless war on drugs, etc. are only coming from him. If you’re a conservative who thinks we’re wasting money in an untenable situation, who else could you vote for?

    I was hoping that when the Republicans co-opted the “tea party” movement that it would retain more of those values. Instead, they just merged it with the same stuff from before.

    At any rate, I am glad to see you’re finally coming around. Back then, I said that the Republicans were absolutely assured to lose in 2008, and I was proven right. The party did so much to alienate those who would vote for them that there was no other conceivable outcome. Now you seem to be realizing that the party has to be an alliance of individuals who agree on many things but not necessarily everything at once.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Did you rea to the end?

  • Bill S

    You misread Neil. Check the freakin’ tags, for pete’s sake.

    RONPAULRONPAULRONPAUL!!!!11!11!1

  • acat
  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
  • zizzer

    For as much as I’ve seen about how rude you guys say Ron Paul fans are (I agree some are), most RedStaters here seem much more disrespectful.

  • acat

    I’m sorry they’re headed your way, but I’m happy that they’re gone!

    Mew

  • zizzer

    I was just pointing out that it’s not like he’s some oddball throwing out an obscure conspiracy theory all alone. Many economists agree with his position, including Peter Schiff, who accurately predicted the recession after the housing bubble while your beloved Reagonomist Art Laffer laughed at him and claimed our economy was the best it has ever been: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

  • kingsley

    Even acknowledging that you “have to make peace” is a step in the right direction.

  • grandma

    You have it much worse. I sure hope you don’t have to decide between Rahm and the other clowns this month.

  • leonidus2010

    Dear paultimmerar:

    First I wan to extend my gratitude and respect to you family members who served in our military (as well as all other veterans).

    There seems to be a misconception (mainly from some neocons that they are the only Americans who are patriotic the irony is that many of these have have chosen NOT to serve in our military and some were even drafter dodgers!)

    Let’s seperate the MEN form the BOYS…

    These are some of the honorable patriotic Republic leaders past and present that served in our military…

    Ron Paul served in the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Air National Guard from 1962 to 1968.

    Ronald Reagan served in the U.S. Army and U.S. Army Air Force 1937?1945

    George H. W. Bush (41) served in the U.St. Navy 1942 to 1945

    John McCain served in the U.S. Navy 1958 to 1981

    Colin Powell United States Army served in the U.S. Army 1958 to 1993

    Donald Rumsfield U.S. Navy 1954 to 1975

    Mitch McConnell enlisted in the U.S. Army Reserves in 1967

    John Boehner served in the U.S. Navy in 1968 (only 8 weeks but HONORABLE discharge so I feel he deserves credit for enlisting during the war and not skirting his patriotic duties like some of the guys below)

    George W Bush (43) served in the Texas Air National Guard and the
    Alabama Air National Guard from 1968-1974 during the Vietnam War
    I give him half credit on this one this it comes off to me as joining the guard to avoid the draft but thats my opinion however not as bad as the guys below simply hiding out at college when their country needed them etc then questioning others patriotism (even that of people who actually served honorably) 40 years later?

    Here are the “leaders” who chose NOT to serve in the military AT ALL (many during drafts or times of war) maybe THEIR patriorism should be the one questioned?

    Dick Cheney – NO MILITARY SERVICE. When Cheney became eligible for the draft, during the Vietnam War, he applied for and received five draft deferments (wow something Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney have in common draft dodging)?!?!?!?! Maybe he is a conscientious objector?

    Newt Gingrich – NO MILITARY SERVICE during vietnam was went to college to avoid the draft

    Rudy Giuliani – NO MILITARY SERVICE during Vietnam he was going to college to avoid the draft and working on the Robert Kennedy campaigns for the DNC and voted for McGovern in 1972 in OPPOSITION to the Vietnam War? Now this is a REAL conservative!

    Mitt Romney – NO MILITARY SERVICE went went to college then went France to avoid the war

    Donald Trump – NO MILITARY SERVICE we was in college and then doing real estate deals during the draft? Need some explanation or clarification on this one.

    Rush Limbaugh no military service on record even though he was 18-22 during the draft. Unless he can show me proof of HONORABLE military service during this period I will be counting him as one of the draft dodgers

    Which brings me to anoher poin why only half of our Secretaries of Defense in that last 50 years have ANY ACTUAL military service at all? Don’t you think that should be a pre-requisite for work experience in that position?
    I could not believe it when I researched it that this many President (Replublicans as well as Dems have Secretaries of Defense in charge of the Joint chiefs of Staff that are beaurocrats with no actual military service)

    William Cohen Scty of Defense 1997-2001 no military service

    William James Perry Scty of Defense 1994-1997 no military service

    Dick Cheney Scty of Defense 1989-1993 no military service

    Harold Brown Scty of Defense 1977-1981 no military service

    James R. Schlesinger Scty of Defense 1973 – 1975 o military service

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    I’d say that’s an excellent adjective to use for fools that are willing to listen to anything a truther, birther, skin-head enabler who thinks the Fed bankrolled 911 has to say.

    I suppose I could respect you less, I just can’t imagine how. RonPaul fans are right down there with the Planned Parenthood counselors.

  • acat

    If we coud prosecute voter fraud effectively statewide, I think we’d turn the whole thing a good couple shades redder….

    (Brady was ahead with half of Crook County reporting .. and the rest of Crook County didn’t report until after all the downstate counties came in… says to me the crooks were counting up how many votes they needed to print…)

    Mew

  • leonidus2010

    Dear paultimmerar:

    First I wan to extend my gratitude and respect to you family members who served in our military (as well as all other veterans).

    There seems to be a misconception (mainly from some neocons that they are the only Americans who are patriotic the irony is that many of these have have chosen NOT to serve in our military and some were even drafter dodgers!)

    Let?s seperate the MEN form the BOYS?

    These are some of the honorable patriotic Republic leaders past and present that served in our military?

    Ron Paul served in the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Air National Guard from 1962 to 1968.

    Ronald Reagan served in the U.S. Army and U.S. Army Air Force 1937?1945

    George H. W. Bush (41) served in the U.St. Navy 1942 to 1945

    John McCain served in the U.S. Navy 1958 to 1981

    Colin Powell United States Army served in the U.S. Army 1958 to 1993

    Donald Rumsfield U.S. Navy 1954 to 1975

    Mitch McConnell enlisted in the U.S. Army Reserves in 1967

    John Boehner served in the U.S. Navy in 1968 (only 8 weeks but HONORABLE discharge so I feel he deserves credit for enlisting during the war and not skirting his patriotic duties like some of the guys below)

    George W Bush (43) served in the Texas Air National Guard and the
    Alabama Air National Guard from 1968-1974 during the Vietnam War
    I give him half credit on this one this it comes off to me as joining the guard to avoid the draft but thats my opinion however not as bad as the guys below simply hiding out at college when their country needed them etc then questioning others patriotism (even that of people who actually served honorably) 40 years later?

    Here are the ?leaders? who chose NOT to serve in the military AT ALL (many during drafts or times of war) maybe THEIR patriorism should be the one questioned?

    Dick Cheney – NO MILITARY SERVICE. When Cheney became eligible for the draft, during the Vietnam War, he applied for and received five draft deferments (wow something Bill Clinton and Dick Cheney have in common draft dodging)?!?!?!?! Maybe he is a conscientious objector?

    Newt Gingrich – NO MILITARY SERVICE during vietnam was went to college to avoid the draft

    Rudy Giuliani – NO MILITARY SERVICE during Vietnam he was going to college to avoid the draft and working on the Robert Kennedy campaigns for the DNC and voted for McGovern in 1972 in OPPOSITION to the Vietnam War? Now this is a REAL conservative!

    Mitt Romney – NO MILITARY SERVICE went went to college then went France to avoid the war

    Donald Trump – NO MILITARY SERVICE we was in college and then doing real estate deals during the draft? Need some explanation or clarification on this one.

    Rush Limbaugh no military service on record even though he was 18-22 during the draft. Unless he can show me proof of HONORABLE military service during this period I will be counting him as one of the draft dodgers

    Which brings me to anoher poin why only half of our Secretaries of Defense in that last 50 years have ANY ACTUAL military service at all? Don?t you think that should be a pre-requisite for work experience in that position?
    I could not believe it when I researched it that this many President (Replublicans as well as Dems have Secretaries of Defense in charge of the Joint chiefs of Staff that are beaurocrats with no actual military service)

    William Cohen Scty of Defense 1997-2001 no military service

    William James Perry Scty of Defense 1994-1997 no military service

    Dick Cheney Scty of Defense 1989-1993 no military service

    Harold Brown Scty of Defense 1977-1981 no military service

    James R. Schlesinger Scty of Defense 1973 – 1975 o military service

  • lineholder

    Pachebel’s Canon in D is probably one of my all-time favorites, but I like the Doobies, Marshall Tucker, Eagles, Lynyrd Skynyrd (oldies I know but I like them all the same) and I really enjoy the old R&B/Blues.

    Can’t stand reggae or hip-hop

    Like you said, Eclectic

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Ron Paul is a fruitbat. No amount of military service could possibly offset that. I would easily take any of those listed with no service over Paul for any job but scat collector for the circus, the only job Paul may actually be qualified for.

  • leonidus2010

    If wars are worth fighting than it is EVERY able-bodied American’s duty to pull their weight (outside of short conflicts) any long term conflicts (Afghanistan or Iraq) using substantial troop capacity should include some kind of draft requirment even if limited to (like by age 18-20 or by other factors) It is not fair to our “volunteer” servicepeople and their familes to make them ALONE bear the brunt of a war(s) (with 4th and 5th deployments etc and stop loss) we all claim to support for are not willing to put our money where our mouth is by requiring enlistment including congressionpeople and other governement officials children.

    In warfare the most committed wins and by failing to provide our military with enough troops we are cutting them short undermining their ability to do what they need to do to win. I think it’s time alot of the draft-dodging “cheerleaders” (not warriors) like Giuliani and Cheney look in the mirror and put up or shut up. Obviously these remarks are not intedent for those who have served already or or are serving now.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    That doesn’t make him – or them – any less the fruitbat.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Christians can witness to the Lost that come for the music and singles, rather than having to seek them out on the streets! Neil has probably converted several Libertarians to our side.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • lineholder
  • Doc Holliday

    if you ask me what kinds of music I like, I say “both kinds, country AND Western”. Although country post 1990 is crap, just remixed pop.

  • powertothepeople

    whether or not they have served and the time they have served, would you please state your service record so we can know how to judge you.

    I will start, 21.5 years as a CO with the Marine Corp including multiple tours in Vietnam. Going on your own post, am I to look down on you and your republican value?

    I have no clue as to your service record, but I find it so funny so many want to try to use that trump card and yet they themselves have never worn the uniform, only did a 4 year tour, never saw action, or skipped real service by joining a part time unit.

  • minister_of_war

    I have very little use for Ron Paul & what I see are his completely backward views on foreign policy & especially his seemingly anti-semitic ideology.

    But, with that said, sometimes certain moderators on here seem to have almost no tolerance for opposing views on here. If all that we do on here is nod in agreement with each other all of the time, what would be the point of that?

    I see nothing that hiimallen said in his comments that would be grounds for him being banned. It reminds me once again of what Erick was saying in this post back on January 6th of this year:

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/06/dear-redstate-community/

    In fact, wasn’t it much more inappropriate when streiff said: “they?re p***ies” in his: ” so what you’re saying is” post on Friday, February 11th at 6:49PM EST

  • Doc Holliday

    don’t make a bunch of claims, even misspelling your service branch and then insult others who were not CO’s (commanding officer?) for 21.5 years, btw, never heard of that one. This Paul guy is a flake, don’t fall for his bait, this is what the left does. they hate conservatives whether they served or not, but they look for any way to attack, if someone did not serve, they attack them for that. If someone did serve, they find a way to diminish it. If the service was above and beyond, they attack them on other things.

    Don’t play this guys game. One thing I have learned on the net over the years, is never give your service record to enemies, they will find ways to trash you, put you on the defensive, and draw you into more. there is nothing wrong with being proud of your service, but don’t use it to attack others and never explain it to a political opponent, stick to the issues.

    this is just my advice, but it is advice from someone who has experienced this problem. that is why I don’t talk about my service in the military or in politics. Your friends won’t think more of you and your enemies will just use it against you. Here only ideas matter.

  • grandma

    did similar in 2008. It took forever to get their official count.

  • minister_of_war

    There’s no reason to call zizzer an “ignorant fool” as you did here. You seem to bully people on RedState quite often. I thought of you specifically when Erick wrote his post on Jan 6 that I mentioned above. Here’s the link again if you lost it.

    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/06/dear-redstate-community/

    We want to grow the conservative movement, not insult people just because they disagree with us.

  • zizzer

    The Austrians were right on the money in their predictions of the recession when many supply-siders like Laffer had no idea it was coming.

  • minister_of_war

    …or long time readers & posters on RedState have zero tolerance for opposing views (even when the views aren’t even opposing in the first place).

    Most people would see your comment & try to read it to find some insight or value in it. These people would only see you as not joining them in absolute & unabated bashing of Ron Paul & his oft-times crazy supporters. To them, it doesn’t matter what you support as long as you support the candidates that they support and oppose the candidates that they oppose. No thinking is apparently allowed.

  • minister_of_war
  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    We DO have zero tolerance for fruitbats who support conspiracy theories on the fed, birthers, truthers and enablers of skin-heads – and that would be Ron Paul.

    There is no value or insight in anything to do with Ron Paul short of his resignation.

  • powertothepeople

    the guy who thinks it is his place to dictate the behavior of others or the protector of all the “poor” Ronbots?

    Worry about what you post and spend less time acting like the daddy of the site. Sounds like a good idea doesn’t it………..

    He could say much worse about the sheep of Ron Paul and it would still be a lot nicer than they deserve.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    are ignorant fools, generally incapable of rational thought.

    Ron Paul is no conservative, he uses the Republican Party as nothing more than a flag of convenience. We’ve been through this argument before and in the last primary season it resulted in automatic banning of these nutballs. I suspect it won’t be long before that wisdom is reinstated given the comments here.

  • powertothepeople

    or something has changed in the last few years that I am unaware of, but since when was the Marine Corp spelled any other way than Marine Corp?

    And you have never heard of CO’s in the Marines? Really?

  • minister_of_war

    I don’t like Ron Paul. And I loved how Giuliani destroyed him & his positions while debating during the last campaign.

    That’s the point. We can attack the positions without name calling & attacking the person. We should be more mature than that. List the problems with Ron Paul’s positions; name specific examples of Paul’s nutty supporters acting inappropriately; do not imitate them.

    You are right though, this thread almost has turned into something that needs parental supervision.

  • Newton E. Mchuckney

    you should take your own advice

  • powertothepeople

    I could care less if he served or anyone else has served. Not everyone is called to serve. It may be a good thing for more to serve, but that is another discussion all together. My only point was he wants to jump on the “bad Cheney” bandwagon because he did not serve and went to college just to “skip the draft” yet he has not offered any info as to whether or not he has served and can stand on the judgment pulpit.

  • Newton E. Mchuckney

    get it right

  • minister_of_war

    … when it comes to nutty conspiracy theories.

    I loved during the ’08 presidential election cycle when a got a whole group of Paulistas going about the conspiracy theory of the Skulls & Bones Society running the government & how crazy it was that Bush 41 & Bush 43 were both members & how even the Democrat candidate, John Kerry was part of the secret society, so the society had made for sure that it would control the highest office in the land. They were freaked out.

    Then I dropped the bomb on them & said: “so, who are the Skull & Bones candidate this election cycle?” It was utter silence & I had masterfully destroyed one of their dumb conspiracy theories.

    My point is that we can beat those with whom we disagree with logic. We don’t need to have personal attacks. Your attacking zizzer above with name calling is counter productive.

  • Doc Holliday

    I have never heard of a CO for 21 years. Officers usually go from platoon leader, to CO’s, to battalion staff Majors etc. I am not questioning your service, I was a bit offended by your belittling reservists/Guardsmen and people that served only a hitch or two.

    My main point was to ignore this guys tactic, I have seen this too many times on the web. People will ask you all these personal history questions, and then use them to tear you down, it is sick and sad. that is why I don’t tell people crap anymore lol.

    thank you for your service, let’s leave it at that. And I do mean it.

  • minister_of_war
  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    name calling.

    It’s a statement of fact. An ignorant fool is an ignorant fool. You can dress him up and put lipstick on him, but it doesn’t change the basic fact that a Ron Paul supporter is an ignorant fool.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    And if we paid him based on the number of agencies that had zero personnel after the first year, I suspect we’d see a mass exodus from government service.

  • gekster

    poy kettle thing?

  • zizzer

    What makes you say we deserve to be insulted? Do you say that simply because you view us as ignorant on issues or is it something more?

    It doesn’t really bother me that you guys disagree with me. It just bothers me that this site portrays us as mindless bots who don’t think for ourselves. It’s not like Dr. Paul promises us things with money the government doesn’t have like most other politicians. His platform isn’t readily appealing. I thought of him as kooky and was very suspicious of him before I looked into his writings. Why would people support him if they didn’t know much about him?

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908
  • gekster

    dang fat fingers

  • minister_of_war

    … unless you’re also saying that you have spoken to the perfect cross-section of College Republicans.

    I was active in the College Republicans for a very long time. I took the 10 years to graduate Van Wilder plan. And while I was active in the club, holding many elected positions within the club, I met some very intelligent & hardworking conservatives who had very deep grasps on my varying issues.

    You will find all sorts of “skulls full of mush” as Rush Limbaugh calls it on college campuses. But the College Republicans was one group trying to combat outright ignorance & stupidity propagated by many of the liberals who taught at & ran the university.

  • minister_of_war

    … that Mike Huckabee only ends up getting 2% of the vote. If only that were true in real life.

  • zizzer

    Hopefully people like that aren’t the main reasons for disregarding him :)

  • minister_of_war

    I think that we need an immediate deduction in pay of $10,000/year for any federal government employee making over $100,000/year. People shouldn’t be going into government jobs if their intent is to get paid well.

    I wonder how much money this would save. We could cut payrolls all over the federal government. People would have to tighten their belts, but we’re in a deep recession right now, so that’s part of the deal.

  • minister_of_war

    … They need $10,000/year pay cuts too. … At least $10,000 a year.

  • minister_of_war

    Was Jesus a draft dodger?

    I don’t know if there was a draft going on at that time or what particular wars the Roman Empire was involved in, but Jesus did say: “Turn the other cheek.”

    Your post is insulting.

    I too will thank Ron Paul for his service to our country in the Armed Forces, but you cannot call all of those other people draft dodgers without being in their shoes.

    And btw, leonidus2010, when did you volunteer for your last deployment?

  • minister_of_war

    … various crazed conspiracy theories. “The war in Iraq was all about profiteering.” “Going into Iraq is just another example of the Zionists control over American foreign policy.” “We were responsible for 9/11 or at least knew ahead of time that it was going to happen, etc., etc.”

    After seeing how incapible our government is of doing things right, I think that most conspiracy theories involving giant government plots are pretty much debunked.

    Just think about it. If our government was as powerful as the conspiracy theorists wanted us to believe, do you think that Fidel Castro would still be alive. …. oh wait, some conspiracy theorists even believe that he really is dead, secretly of course, in order to support the military industrial complex or some other whacked out concept.

  • zizzer

    and he said they were preposterous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v60TWZNVgtk). There are always some weirdos following every candidate.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I want peace on our terms.

  • housingfear

    I am a 32 year old conservative who believes in the constitution. I am a married pro-life Christian. Everything about my political beliefs is pure constitutional conservative, not wacky libertarian…and yet I love Ron Paul. The guy really is my hero.

    Its hard for me to read this site because I see the unfair treatment that Ron Paul gets here.

    It seems like most of the people on here believe that Paul blaimes Americans for the 9/11 attacks. I guess if you honestly believe that Ron Paul said this I could understand why you would dislike the guy.

    The reality is that he simply said our foreign policy of meddling in other countries affairs creates such anger and backlash in the Arab world that it motivates them to attack us. The CIA admits this is true and even has a term for it called “Blowback”. It makes perfect sense to me and does not seem unpatriotic at all to think the Arab world resent us for our foreign policy.

    Why do we love Ron Paul?
    Why do we get tears in our eyes when we watch him speak?
    Why do we watch the youtube videos of him and dream of having him as president?

    #1) Look at his voting record, he votes the constitution every time.

    #2) The guy is honest, and he has integrity. He speaks the truth to power and does not care what anyone thinks.

    (This is a guy who was the only member of congress who voted NO on giving Mother Theresa a gold medal because he felt it was a waste of taxpayer money. Yet offered to contribute his own money to honor her instead.

    #3) He is not a hypocrite. You can’t say the country is going bankrupt while also proclaiming that military spending is off limits. He calls out the Republicans on their own obligations to cut spending.

    #4) If you are educated on economics…(Austrian school). You simply love this guy. He gets it. Critics like to say Ron Paul wants to return to the Gold Standard as a way to make him sound crazy. While I am sure he would love it, he is a realist and simply believes the dollar has to be tied to something physical so the fed can’t just keep printing and inflating. We are headed for a dollar crisis that will make 2008 look like a day in Disney, and Ron Paul gets it, and is trying to stop it.

    Keep trying to portray us as unpatriotic weed smoking teenagers, or crazy libertarians who believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories…but you are only doing yourself a disservice.

    We are mainly educated patriots who are strict fiscal conservatives. We believe in a strong military defense but not an interventionalist military empire. We love the constitution, and love the fact that he is Pro-Life and Pro-Liberty. The guy is a hero, and you can ban me from this site but think about what I say and remember that Conservatives in their 20′s and 30′s have had enough of the bankrupting Neo-Con Republican policys. Its time for a change and Ron Paul embodies everything that we want.

    And to those of you who like to preface every article by making the claim ?He can?t win?

    Remember they told us that Rand Paul could not win the KY senate nomination either, but the grass roots made it happen. Do not discount the political climate we are living in right now. Ron Paul is ripe to win over the majority of the Tea Party support and then its Romney vs Paul for all the apples.

  • JadedByPolitics

    America and this so called interference you seem to think “creates” jihad against us….these Islamic caliphate crazed idiots have been fighting US since the beginning of our founding, but don’t let anything like the FACTS get in the way of yours and RonPauls way of tearing down this most beautiful of Countries, this most FREE of Countries to make a point.

    They Hate Us Because We Are Free

    “In Jefferson?s papers, the reason the Barbary Powers were attacking American ships was explained:

    The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the laws of their Prophet [Mohammed] ? that it was written in their Koran that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners; that is was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners; and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.

    These are words we have heard before. These are things that modern day Islamic extremists have said is their justification for waging war against the United States. It is an incredibly frustrating situation to be found in and, more importantly, it is a dangerous one. When a society feels that dying in battle means paradise, what?s to stop war?”

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    #1) Ron Paul votes the Constitution while slipping pork through the back door to his buddies. As a Christian, I have a real problem with people that are duplicitous. He constantly complains about pork, yet he’s one of the biggest pig farmers in Congress.

    #2) See #1. Honesty is not one of his virtues.

    #3) See #1. He knows hypocrisy well.

    #4) He’s completely unrealistic about his economic ideas. He’s never shown a plan to get from where we are to where he wants to be. He’s never, in all his years in the House, successfully passed a single piece of legislation.

    We need doers, not talkers. We need people with integrity, not hypocrites.

    As for his followers, too many of them think they want to convince people they’re right is to just keep screaming louder and louder. It’s really hard to find a Ron Paul supporter that is willing to have an actual conversation, rather than the typical one only interested in giving us a lecture.

    Lastly, the Tea Party isn’t as big as a lot of people would like to believe. Instead, there are people everywhere that have had enough of what’s coming out of Washington, and have taken time out of their regular lives to have a little tea party.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I blame the lack of coffee. Should’ve been…

    “As for his followers, too many of them think the way to convince people they’re right is just to scream louder and louder.”

  • rbdwiggins

    that Ron Paul can win.

    He will never be President of the United States…

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney leads the pack with the support of 24% of Likely Republican Primary Voters. Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, the party?s nominee for vice president in 2008, runs second with 19%, closely followed by Mike Huckabee with 17%…

    (Snip…)

    Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich comes in fourth with 11% support. Tim Pawlenty, who recently stepped down as governor of Minnesota, earns six percent (6%) of the primary vote, followed by Texas Congressman Ron Paul at four percent (4%) and Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels with three percent (3%). Six percent (6%) like some other candidate, and 10% are undecided given this list.

    Absolutely, no chance…

  • housingfear

    Night Twister, Lets atleast be honest here.

    Ron Paul would fight a losing battle trying to vote against spending bills. They would ignore him.

    So he would load the spending bills with earmarks for his own district…AND VOTE AGAINST IT!

    He never actually voted for those bills, so he is not a hypocrite at all.

    His view was that if the congress was going to be irresponsible and spend against his wishes that atleast his district would get some of their tax money back…But he would still vote against the bill anyway on principle.

    The Republican party lost me somewhere between 2002-2004. From that point on I began calling myself a Conservative instead of identifying with the Republican party. I could not bring myself to vote for George Bush in 2004 due to the Iraq war, and in 2008 I voted for Baldwin of the constitutional party because McCain was too liberal for me.

    I wrote a blog on the housing market and when McCain adopted Hillary Clintons plan to deal with housing by rewarding the stupid, irresponsible underwater house flippers with a bailout by paying the difference on their mortgage he made Obama seem like the conservative in the race.

    The plan McCain had was if someone sold their house for 20,000 dollars less then what they owed on the mortage the government would come to the rescue and pay the $20,000 for them.

    These people put 0% down so they had all the insentive to walk away and let the government pay 20K. No skin of their nose.

    On the other hand the responsible people who bought a house they could afford and put 20% down would be at a break even point in this scenario. If they sold their home they would have lost their whole 20K down payment. No Bailout for them.

    McCain wanted to reward the irresponsible and thus indirectly punish the responsible people.

    Plus the guy originally supported Amnest for Illegals. lol

    These are the kind of candidates the republican party has been giving us and you wonder why the tea party formed.

    I am too conservative to vote for Romney
    I am too conservative to vote for McCain.

    It takes someone like Ron Paul to even make me passionate about politics because I really feel like he is the only true conservative in the race.

    Not trying to lecture or be rude in your home. Just trying to explain to you how the main stream republican party has lost voters like me, and why I would rather waste a vote on libertarian or constitutional conservative candidate then to sell myself out and vote for the lesser of two evils.

    I will never do that again.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    You explained why we couldn’t care less about Ron Paul supporters way better than I ever could.

  • JadedByPolitics

    …

  • acat

    10% cut from anyone making more than $60k.

    Works out the same at $100,000 level, but is $25,000 at $250,000 level.

    Still say Congress should get special treatment – tie their pay rate to a military grade, maybe Army Captains. They want to give themselves a raise, the whole armed services get one.

    Mew

  • Tbone

    of the attendees are not conservatives, they are fools.

  • Scope
  • acat

    “Forest?”

    “Well, what else do you call a bunch of plants that are dumb as a post?”

    Mew

  • Wayne

    In my self imposed education of American History I was riveted with Jefferson’s dealings of the barbary pirates and the intrigue of Tripoli, the pirate king Youssef and the Navy’s use of Marine Corps. Being a former Marine myself, it’s history I should have known back then. I think Aron Burr was in there somewhere too…I’ve read so much that I get some events mixed with others….

    Make no mistake, Ron Paul’s assertions regarding our International Policies are correct. They however, have nothing to do with why Islam hates the west. Islam has and will be at war with the west until the end of time for the specific reasons that Jade has so accurately articulated above. Islam sees the world as split in two. The world of Islam and the world of war. Very black and white with no room for grey.

    My two cents..

  • rbdwiggins

    That more or less describes Ron Paul, but your comment serves as prima fascia evidence that many of his supporters are clearly, and beyond a shadow of doubt, delusional…

    And, I second NightTwister: “…better than I ever could.”

  • Scope

    is doing as well as you would like to think.

    http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/02/cpac-libertarian-youth-group-expels-ron-paul-for-being-delusional-fringe/#more-46504

    Saying that you get tears in your eyes when Ron Paul speaks is about equal to Chrissie Matthews getting leg tingles when his messiah speaks.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Voodoo Child (Slight Return)

  • sharonmcp

    putting that leftist windbag, Rosie O’Donnell, in her place.

    As far as being President, he wouldn’t get my vote in the primary.

  • Newton E. Mchuckney

    spot on

  • aesthete

    Now there’s a musical “style” you will never catch me listening to of my own volition!

  • Tbone

    Paul attracts the same odd mentality that was attracted to Ross Perot. Romney attracts voters who thought McCain was a conservative.

  • izoneguy

    The YAF / Ron Paul Smackdown

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=41748

  • GOPer

    I have to say, this is a well-reasoned post. Good job.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    And it’s also a personal best in comment count :)

  • powertothepeople

    Celebrating my 45th this week, was the 14th, on the coast.

    Sorry for the misspelling, that is one reason I try not to post late at night or after a hard day. Without getting into too much, the disease I have robs me more later in the day and makes it very tough to convey proper thought. I tend to have issues with certain things and certain words more than anything else. I know the words and how to use them, just does not come out right. I mess up on such words as you to your, your to you’re, etc. Can now add more to that list.

    But back to the subject.

    Usually, when someone says CO in the phrase I was a CO for…….it refers to commissioned officer not commanding officer. Had I been making that claim my chain of words would have been something along the line of I was the…….

    And not trashing on any service record long or short, active or reserve, simply was responding to the above posters knocking of past leaders due to their lack of service, short service, or reserve service. If it came across wrong, my apologies.

    Again, thanks for the correction and I expect there will be more in the future. My mind is not what it was 40 years ago and with the disease I deal with, it is less than what others my age have. And as the day progresses, it only gets worse so plan on correcting me many times in the future. But try to not act like speciallist, arrogant with no reason to be so. One should learn to spell themselves prior to reminding another about lesser mistakes especially when the person constantly messes up while trying to be haughty. I make no excuses for my issues, if I do not want to be corrected or look like the fool, I should follow one doctors advice and move myself to a home where “more” care can be given for my condition especially after it gets worse. For now, I will simply continue being the thorn here and take my knocks as they come.

  • speciallist

    shoot me an email.. special(at)pacbell.net

  • powertothepeople

    anniversary. Slightly older than 45, but not telling by how much. I am not decrepit yet, but heading that way.