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Fox: A new look at Herman Cain

By: Neil Stevens (Diary)  |  September 28th, 2011 at 08:30 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Romney Perry Cain

Today’s been the single biggest polling day in my estimation since the 2010 elections. Three major releases all containing interesting data. The third and most surprising of those comes from Fox News, which shows Herman Cain not just in third place, but taking a top-tier position usually held in recent weeks by Michele Bachmann or Ron Paul.

Facts: 364 Republican primary voters, phone survey with landline and mobile handling included. MoE 5.

As I said, Herman Cain has arrived. Mitt Romney gained one point from last month to lead at 23, Rick Perry notably lost 10 points to land at 19, and Herman Cain gained 11 to finish at 17. Newt Gingrich jumped up 8 points to round out the double figures candidates at 11.

What do these three big movers have in common? Rick Perry is beginning to get a reputation for poor debating, while Cain and Gingrich are getting comments that they debate well. Much as Tim Pawlenty crashed after he disappointed in a debate, giving away his support to Michele Bachmann who was ready, now it appears that Herman Cain appears viable to Perry supporters whose eyes are straying.

I want to start seeing favorability and unfavorability ratings for Romney, Perry, and Cain, stat. Cain, as Perry before him, will get heightened scrutiny now. Will he hold up, is the key question right now.

Crossposted from Unlikely Voter

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  • wonkish1

    He’ll be the next one to bow out.

    My guess is immediately after the CNN debate because there is 0 to expect that he should stick around holding out hope that he will do well with CNBC moderating.

  • wonkish1

    Because she isn’t completely knocked out of Iowa yet, she has money, and because she’s too stubborn.

  • wonkish1

    Assuming we are looking at reasonably close 3 way tie on the 11th, a climate of primary voters angry at the bickering the last time around, and hopefully some good economic questions coming out of Bloomberg that debate could be a very interesting one.

    Instead of an attack fest we might actually see a debate on the 11th that features candidates talking about what they have to offer instead of what somebody else doesn’t have to offer.

  • onemovoter

    He was being interviewed by Blitzer when he was asked if Perry ended up being the nominee, would he support him, and Cain responded that he couldn’t because of several positions that Perry has that Cain can’t support.

    Allahpundit has the details and the clip:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/28/cain-i-couldnt-support-perry-if-hes-the-nominee/

    /sigh why oh why?

  • williamjameson

    George Washington who had no political experience under King Georges empire except for soliciting gov on 2 occasions for 8 months. He’s got a lot of hurdles to overcome but he’s one a few true conservatives in the race. Ehh, their all conservatives just not what some are looking for but was any gop candidate the perfect one? Nope. I don’t see Cain surviving but he’s earned the right to be nominated Veep. If not, a run for the US Senate to unseat Senator Saxby Chambliss

    Gingrich was impressive, set aside his baggage as Speaker and a few poorly worded comments and he’s more favorable than Romney. People said he’d grow in the polls but can he win over voter appeal. He’s a survivor worth watching, you’d think the others would try to learn from Gingrich and demonstrate more knowledge and less BS.

    Santorum was uptight, its like he inherited all of Romney’s stiffness and Santorum seemed angry during several debates. his jabs at Perry didn’t really matter in the long run as he’s offered very little on jobs, the economy, debt and how he’ll fix entitlement problems. Too much focus on social issues. No offense but social conservatives should to pay more attention to the real problems mentioned above than the social ones that will take care of themselves.

    Santorum would make a good Veep or offer him Janet Napolitanos job at HMS.

  • explodinghead

    I listened to the interview with Blitzer. Cain prefers Romney to Perry and couldn’t get behind Perry if he is the nominee? Well, guess what, I’m done with Cain. He was second on my list to Perry, but Cain also supported Romney in 2008 and said he would choose Romney for VP at the last debate. I had a feeling that he was a populist who wants to be President more than he wants to get a Conservative elected. He obviously never listened to Ronald Reagan on supporting other conservatives. I’m done with him.

  • salvatore

    I predict Herman Cain will win the nomination and he will be our next President.
    He has the solutions, he has the story of the American dream, and he has the ability to communicate pride and hope for America(kinda like a good cheerleader). Thank you Mr. Cain. In you I can see a greater America, a stronger America, and an America that resumes it’s destiny to hold out opportunity for all, and to be that place on a hill where everyone in the world wants to be.
    We will return to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as envisioned by those great men and women of our founding. God Bless America.

  • Scope

    if it is someone he doesn’t agree with. That’s not foot in mouth disease, that trecherous to the Republican party. Thanks for the vetting that will continue. His comments about being able to win many black votes is also more than disturbing. Under the microscope, Cain is not much different than the rest.

  • maddog

    I don’t want Rick Santorum at Dept of HHS. I don’t want anybody at HHS. Close it along with Depts of Energy, Education, HUD, Labor, and Commerce. Consolidate some core duties and close the rest.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    (REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS ONLY) 10. I?m going to read a list of the announced candidates for the 2012 Republican nomination. Please tell me which one you would like to see as the Republican presidential nominee. (RANDOMIZE LIST)

    So the trend that I’m seeing in this ongoing poll…

    Romney dropped from 26% to 22% and gained 1% back… significant events being, pre-Perry anouncement, post-Perry announcement, and Perry not debating well…

    Perry came in at 29 and slides to 19 as you point out… but both Cain and Gingrich have moved up from their Pre-Perry announcement numbers, and Bachmann, Santorum, and the rest… have all decreased… with a insignificant exception with Huntsman…

    By golly, if you’re looking at this from a Primary standpoint… and you’re going to make the “electability” argument… The momentum is in Cain and Gingrich’s favor to topple Romney… and either one of them could do it with continued strong debate performances… unfortunately for Perry… these lame pony shows called Debates apparently matter.

  • izoneguy

    Cain says he would not support Perry as GOP nominee

    I guess Herman Cain just blew his chance at being VP or part of the
    Perry administration. Now Perry can go after Cain with both barrels.
    Cain does not understand what the DREAM Act is or how it works.
    He seems to have trouble understanding something if it is not
    black and white.

  • claydog83

    Does anyone, even in this hungry field of 2012, think that this man could be an effective and stand up president?

    This talk coupled with Christie fever is sad

    Coming from a Texas resident I can gladly back Perry

    You must consider the demographics/democrats in Texas politics to truly understand some of the policies… Two words

    Austin/Mexico

  • Scope

    saying he would not support Perry if he was the eventual nominee. It’s out there everywhere, and so very many are PO’d about that comment. We shall see how long Cain lasts. By next week he will be lower than Bachmann. No Republican says they will not support the nominee who ever they are. No one.

  • wonkish1

    Yeah right! Clearly not the smartest thing to say, but he most definitely isn’t dropping below Bachmann nor going to be THAT much impacted by that statement.

  • Scope

    Cain’s comments on the fence and border issues fit right in with his lack of knowledge of “right of return” or that he would not appoint any Muslim to his administration. There are not many even squishy Republicans that would say they would not support the nominee if it was Perry. Out there in the blogsphere so many are asking if he would then support Obama. Cain made a serious cardinal mistake, worse than any other he has ever made. Oh the R’s are PO’d and then some. This is the best conservative in the field?

  • aesthete

    is Cain’s preference for empowering states to enforce federal immigration law. States enforcing federal law is currently a stopgap measure, not the ideal: the states don’t have the level of coordination or centralization to make border security work. IMO, there is little that comes under the purview of the federal government: border security is part of that “little”. The states shouldn’t be doing a job for which they are ill-suited, if there is another way.

  • Scope

    You are an idgiot if you think this will not harm Cain very seriously. Have you looked around the web to see the immediate reaction? It has been immediate and deadly. Who the hel1 says they won’t support the niminee who ever it is. Please with your superior attitude and knowledge about everything politics. Watch how wrong you are.

  • aesthete

    Dunno about you, but most conservatives I know aren’t particularly wed to the party, and probably won’t think too much of the statement unless Perry was their second choice.

  • izoneguy

    Hispanics will soon be the majority. You can moan and cry all you want about “illegal” immigration. The democrats fully support amnesty and want illegals to keep flooding into America.

    It is a delicate dance the Republicans must tread. If you take a hardline stance
    such as Santorium you are shutting down a huge voting block. If you pander to much to the Hispanics you will lose the right.

    Of course if the federal government would have been doing it’s job
    then illegal immigration might not be the crisis it is today.

    Texas is losing the border battle, 18,000 drug cartel members are in Texas
    and plan to take over the border, county by county.

    Perry says that Texas is spending hundreds of millions to fight this problem.
    If children of illegals did not qualify for in-state tuition then probably maybe
    50% of them would not attend college?? The children of illegals have a higher bar to pass to get in-state tuition then anyone else who would move to Texas
    to qualify. In-state tuition for children of illegals does not take away chances
    of kids that are already in Texas. On this issue – Cain is flat wrong.

    Herman Cain looks at the world as black or white, left or right. Someone that is that rigid could never serve as President.

  • Xasteius

    Secretary of Treasury, just because of his personal integrity and the fact he knows how to run a business.

  • rightwingmom52

    I assume you’re talking about the Wolf Blitzer interview, and if so, you’re leaving out the “Today” part of Cain’s comment. He certainly didn’t say anything about if Perry is the eventual nominee. Do you really think he’ll take his ball and go home if Perry gets the nod? There’s just no indication of that in anything he’s said, including what he said today.

  • freentn

    are gone the better. The are nothing more than distractions.

  • wonkish1

    Bachmann is at 3% dropping below that is saying a lot.

    I didn’t say that this wouldn’t hurt him, as of right now it isn’t as public of a mistake as if he had made it in the debates.

    We’ll see how it plays out, but as of right now I chalk it up to a very bad gaffe not the absolute implosion some are actually suggesting.

    But I definitely don’t think that Cain will be at less than 3% even 2 weeks from now.

    And what is with this “superior attitude and knowledge about everything politics” stuff?

  • californiagold

    The poll released on Monday, (which included samples after the Thursday debate) shows Perry with the lead, and Cain with only 7%. Furthermore, in the state polls, the PPP poll done after the debate shows Cain at 7% in Florida.

    The point is, let’s see if there is a trend over a course of weeks that shows Cain to be improving before making any assumptions.

    Based on all the polling, and not just the FOX poll, Romney and Perry continue to be the front runners. Both have the organization, and both have the money.

  • freentn

    Colin Powell. Next thing you know he will be supporting BO or Hillary.

  • californiagold

    So far Cain has had an easy ride because few took his candidacy seriously. Now he will get the same media attention that all the other first tier candidates have received. Soon he will have to once again explain why he supported TARP at a time when the Tea Party movement was in direct opposition.

  • californiagold

    So the next time the banks make bad business decisions, will they ask President Cain for more TARP money ?

  • Doc Holliday

    about the law that says they MUST accept any applicant who was in the top ten percent of his graduating class? This is affirmative action, it let’s people in who would not normally qualify and keeps people out who would otherwise qualify. http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/obamas_wants_engineering_students_and_diversity.html

    Right now, the top universities in Texas are forced by law to give “ten percent rule” kids over 75 percent of incoming freshman slots, and give them scholarships. So why do illegals have a “higher bar” to pass?

    UT is trying to limit the ten percent rule, even going so far as to say it actually hurts their vital “diversity” goals. But really they are worried that their school will lose its academic reputation.

    http://www.chron.com/business/article/Top-10-rule-limits-UT-Austin-says-school-1791006.php

    BTW, I am sick of people here saying this guy is unqualified to be president, and that guy is unqualified. Compared to Obama, they are all qualified. We better start focusing on Obama, because no one else will do it.

  • florida772

    is only supporting conservatives in the race and the true conservative is Mitt Romney

  • californiagold

    I don’t care what Cain’s excuses were for initially supporting TARP, but the fact is, he supported TARP. And that type of big government thinking isn’t something that a true limited government Tea party conservative would support.

  • californiagold

    Obviously, Mitt Romney is not, nor ever was, a conservative.

  • freentn

    Republican nominee is going to cost him and open him up for a grilling.

  • rightwingmom52

    Granted, I don’t know that many legal immigrants, but 100% of the ones I know, who are voters, are hard line on the rule of law. They are not going to vote for a candidate they perceive is soft on immigration in any way. Where do you figure them into the mix? Notice I said “perceive.” I’m not implying nor do I believe that Perry is soft on immigration even though I’m bothered by the in-state tuition issue.

  • Common_Cents

    Up til now he really hasn’t been scrutinized. I’m sure he’ll do fine but there are a few issues that will come up.

  • freentn

    will come back to haunt Cain.

  • Common_Cents

    Someone email it to Cain, stat! ;)

  • craigbardo

    Offering in state college tuition to illegal adults, not children is subsidizing with tax payer dollars a program that benefits non-citizens. That’s hardly a conservative position and then to suggest that because we disagree that we are heartless? That’s weak as water!

    Now to Cain. I have a couple of issues with him. He needs to explain why he supported TARP. Second, though it’s not quite sitting on the couch with Pelosi, when he played “the game” he said that he would choose Romney as VP? Really? None of them are perfect although I like Santorum’s performances of late and I’m a Palin supporter (though she stepped in it last night calling Cain Herb and the flavor of the week).

    My guess is Perry is going to have to sort some things out quickly, there is no love for a McCain redux in Romney and Cain is underestimating how folks feel about bailouts, including Wall Street. Palin has been hit with every conceivable blow but has no organization and the calendar is moving up.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Santorum shake things up, especially if Palin doesn’t get in. If she doesn’t Cain or Santorum may maneuver like McCain did right to the nomination. I wouldn’t be unhappy with either result.

  • freentn

    can hide their financial records from the public just as he advocated that the Federal Reserve should not be audited.

  • freentn

    !

  • freentn

    for that. Cain comment was tantamount to saying he would prefer BO or Hillary to Perry. That is an outrageous thing for a Republican Candidate to say.

  • rightwingmom52

    While I prefer that he didn’t support it first time around, all the candidates have baggage.

    here

  • gekster

    The law was passed in 1997.

    excerpt from first article:
    “The original premise of the “top percent rule” was straightforward: Graduating seniors in the top 10 percent of their high school classes were granted automatic admission to the state school of their choice”.

    And the base of the article is more about Obamas preference of afirmative action.

    The second article is about scaling back the law.
    Niether is about instate tuition.

    The law from:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_House_Bill_588

    excerpt:
    The law guarantees Texas students who graduated in the top ten percent of their high school class automatic admission to all state-funded universities. The bill was created as a means to avoid the stipulations from the Hopwood v. Texas case banning the use of affirmative action.

    (note this part)
    The law only guarantees admission into university. Students must still find the means to pay, and may not achieve their desired choice of major. (Another existing law, which preceded 588, provides a full tuition scholarship for the class valedictorian of a Texas high school for their freshman year at a state public school.)

    They still have to pay thier own way, except for the first year of a validictorian.
    The only benefit I see is that they don’t have to take the entrance exam.

  • freentn

    National Polls and Real Clear Politics Average of those polls still show Perry leading by 4.4%.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

  • freentn

    off. One good debate and he could bounce back.

  • Doc Holliday

    it is a different law than the in state tuition for illegals, but it is law based on Texas affirmative action goals. I find it odd that the Texas government feels a need to tell colleges who they can and can not accept as students. Whatever happened to grades, SAT’s, and merit?

    Republicans complain rightly when stupid legislators screw with our financial markets and business. So why is ok when they screw with education? Why would they make these laws if merit was working out? UT is a left wing institution, unlike Texas A&M. Yet there are many articles about UT fighting against affirmative action policies that hurt the schools reputation.

    The diarist claimed that the in state tuition law does not force anyone out, but when combined with other affirmative action laws, it does. In fact, universities are feeling the pinch because in state tuition is so low. Colleges are actively recruiting out of state students in order to get some money in the system. The Texas law makes it near impossible to get a lot of high paying out of state students.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30870925/ns/business-us_business/t/fewer-out-of-state-college-students/

    and this

    http://www.businessweek.com/business-schools/the-outofstate-solution-to-college-budgets-09072011.html

    if none of this is adding up, then I guess we just don’t agree about the problem.

  • gekster

    The law you site is an end aroud AA.
    It was passed before Perry was govenor, under Bush.

    I was thinking that some how you were linking it to the law passed under Perry.
    Maybe I read your post wrong.

  • GregInFla

    Would you, honestly now, not politically speaking, support that guy? (I am a Perry supporter as well as a Cain donor.) Cain says what he truly feels while on the campaign trail, and that just might get him in trouble with some folks. Now, it matters what is meant by “support”. Donating a million dollars or simply voting for him?

  • freentn

    We don’t need another Colin Powell in the Republican Party.

  • freentn

    is a conservative doesn’t know the meaning of the term.

  • freentn

    supporting Tarp. Cain is not a true conservative. He is obviously just another colin powell.

  • freentn

    remember. I don’t trust cain after that statement.

  • qsclues

    I very much doubt that he meant he would support Obama over Perry. What I suspect he meant is that he would not go on the campaign trail with Perry or want to be his VP. If so, I can understand that.

  • conservativemusician

    This was a pretty serious gaffe in saying he would not support Perry. My dog would be a better president than Obama. Good grief. What disloyalty and serious lack of judgement for such an accomplished person as he is with a great personal story.

    This guy needs to get some perspective and fast. Any of the GOP candidates running now would be head and shoulders better as president than Obama. It shows a great amount of immaturity that Cain can’t put aside his personal differences and support Perry if he turns out to be our nominee, Surely there are some issues that Perry would disagree with him on, but I don’t think this would stop Perry or any of the other candidates from supporting Cain if the shoe was on the other foot.

    What’s worse about his criticisms of Perry is that he along with probably all of the current candidates would have made the same decision Perry did on the in-state tuition thing if they were faced wtih the same circumstances (which by the way has also been supported by “golden boy” Marco Rubio in FL who is now on everyone’s short list for VP).

    Not sure if Cain can recover from this mistake because again it shows great disloyalty to the party as well as very poor judgement. He is out on a limb by himself on this one…a very thin limb. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him walk this back very soon just like Perry had to walk back his “you don’t have a heart…” comment today. Lots of Cain squirming ahead, I predict.

  • ribeye

    I hope Cain does catch on, you’d be amazed how many people that don’t really follow politics are receptive to his message. I hate that his business experience can be dismissed as a “pizza man”, it’s a shame the industry he was in was not one that has more prestige. He is clearly a very intelligent business man that also happens to be an electrifying public speaker.

  • SoFiMil

    Here’s a possible scenario: There’s 100 USPER teenagers at a high school (and 0 illegals. Say kid A is #11 out of 100 his junior year, and chances are slim he’ll crack the top 10%. His senior year, however, 20 illegal teenagers from pick your county/hemisphere/continent enroll as seniors at his high school. All are poorly educated and barely literate in their native language, and no nada (sic) English. These 20 kids treat others well, but fail all their classes (but at least they showed up everyday and did their best, and wanted to learn). They wind out the bottom 20 – being #s 100 though 120. Top 10% of 120 makes 12 the magic number — which means USPER kid A is in, at #11.

  • lineholder

    You’ve been doing absolutely everything you could think of try to discredit Cain in specific since you came on the scene here at RS last week, even to the point of disbursing conspiracy theories. (And becoming a major source of irritation to many of us who have been here for a while in the process).

    Why should anyone consider your opinion as valid after the way you’ve acted?

  • freentn

    like Cain who supported Tarp and wants to keep Federal Reserve financial records secret to be the US Treasury Secretary?

  • gekster

    It’s hard to take him seriously after his prior behaviour.
    Also note,
    after bring called on his misinformation, he started a butt-kissing tour.

  • lineholder

    I do work with quite a few legal immigrants. They’ve chosen to become Americans and are working hard to build a new life here. Their response to those who act in a way that encourages illegal immigrants to come here is illegally is very negative.

    I can’t say that they perceive Perry in this manner. It’s possible that they could. If I get a chance, I’ll ask around.

  • lineholder

    Strange, but it almost seems like more than one person under a single moniker. Split-personality. Relatively objective during the day. And shall we say something other than objective at night (LOL!!)

  • center77

    and one thing I?ve not heard one person say is, that Chris Cristy and Rubio both have the same views on immigration as Rick Perry. Fix is selling people garbage because they want Romney. Perry has made the Bush people mad, Fox has admitted to building him up to crush him. Rubio wanted the same law Texas has in Florida. If we let the establishment chose our candidate, then we made a mistake. Perry is the only one who has stood up and protected his positions. That means more to me than anything. He is a strong man to take what he has a stood tall. You guys already know what the Texas law really has in it, Ive read that. Romney is so not worthy of president. His flip flopps are major, and they are so John Kerry. Rove beat Kerry because of that issue. Romney killed jobs at Bain Capital (Obama will kill him on that) Romney has a Mormon problem (I do not care, but everyone at my church does, a lot) and Fox will not admit this. They keep shoving him down our throats. We cannot let this happen. Romney will never get my vote, because principle does matter to me, even if it does not to Romney. I know I posted this on another post, but I did not want to write it again. Cain, he scares me because we just do not know what is in his past that will creep up. Plus, his no Muslim in his administration is very troubling to me.

  • trickamsterdam

    “Santorum would make a good Veep or offer him Janet Napolitanos job at HMS.” – WilliamJameson

    There’s no reason to think he can deliver PA, and his name is quite literally a national joke.

    He’s also prone to saying controversial/ridiculous things like like the comparison of gay marriage and inter-species marriage.

    He might make an interesting AG (he’d annoy liberals and I’ve read he’s a hard worker). Maybe he could even call in enough favors in the Senate from his old friends to break the probable Democratic hold or filibuster.

    As far as Cain, it’s so disappointing that he’s stumbled so quickly (i.e. the fact that he wouldn’t support Perry).

    It’s been pretty clear to me from the second Perry debate that Romney is going to be the eventual nominee, but I had hopes that Cain could keep the dream alive a little longer…

  • trickamsterdam

    votes are a problem. I would agree that if he’s the nominee he should aggressively go after them.

    It’s reasonable for him to assume that he could bring a conservative message in a more credible way than a white conservative, in the same way Perry probably seems more credible to some Southerners, than Romney, due to his speech and manner.

    Agree that refusing to support Perry in the general is not acceptable, although if he walks the cat back quickly, he may be OK.

    Still, I think it’s becoming increasingly obvious that Romney is probably going to be the eventual nominee anyway, so maybe none of this matters very much…

  • Doc Holliday

    The government should not mess with the free market. Every time they do this, they screw up the natural laws of supply and demand. A bunch of local politicians have no right to be screwing with young people’s futures.

  • Finrod

    Adding the context changes entirely what Cain was saying. Too many on this thread are taking it out of context.

  • bloggb

    Santorum standing there with his teeth hanging out in that open grimace look, every time a question is fielded to him, and you almost expect him to whine when he starts coining his answer. (That part about him is a fail – But I do like the guy though, he’s pretty smart, he just carries himself the wrong way in these debates imo).

    Bachmann on the other hand… oh where oh where to start? Every sentence you know begins with ‘I’ when she opens her mouth. I mean, dang… it could get better maybe? Dunno… she’s trying her heart out but her message just isn’t sticking, and it’s becoming laborious to listen to her ‘I’ rants, with her tone of voice.

    Almost like I’m so tired of hearing Palin rant on Fox about nothing at all consequential to the US and the world, and the election in general. Well actually, Santorum and Bachmann rate higher, but I guess I’m just getting tired of them, as I’m been tired of Palin, saying nothing – about anything. (At least Paul-bots have a message to carry!).

    Perry’s massive screw-up in the last debate just killed me. I loved the guy, his message, his personna, everything… until the mis-cued, upchucked, and failed in his attack on Mitt. What a mess he created with the republican electorate.

    On one hand I can agree, we don’t need a debater in chief. But I think we need somebody that can at least defend himself, his policies and governance, without trying to make a hail mary pass that was likely to fail on national television. All he had to do was stand there, look like a president, be respectful, and then just defend himself. Then SHUT-UP.

    OMG… after the first ‘uhhh… you were for…’ repeat, all he had to do was just PULL OUT for God’s sake! :)

    Whatever, I’m really happy that Herman Cain is finally getting the national recognition he deserves. I’ll never forget his senate campaign in 2004.. wow what a common sense message he had on TV! He was like a Ross Perot (revolutionary) kinda guy, get under the hood and apply some common sense and fix what’s wrong, only that Herman is a real conservative, and he’s competing on the correct ticket.

    Now, what so few people think… can you imagine what Herman Cain would do to Barack Obama in a televised debate?

    What if…he were tapped for VP…. Can you imagine the floor mop he could make of Joe Biden in a debate?

    I’m sure… that the incumbents would be very afraid of this contender in their marketplace, if he were #1 or #2.

    Go Herman!

  • bloggb

    after reading the responses below, I really should be posting on the dailykos/huffpo instead.

    Tell me all you republican purists… who is your perfect candidate on the stage, in the race today, since all you R/S big gun posters here seem to want to sink Cain’s butt in the middle of the Atlantic?

    Who is the RIGHT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE for PRESIDENT?

    No campaign rhetoric needed… just WHO?

  • bloggb

    Everybody mis-cues and has skeletons…
    Who are you voting for.

  • bloggb

    n/t

  • bloggb

    Why turn this into a pile on Herman Cain thread?

  • bloggb

    and you think Herman Cain is another Colin Powell -

    Who’s your candidate then?

    Anything positive around this place for a candidate that can win against zero?

  • ribeye

    Before everyone demands his head, let’s get a clarification first.

    The clip I saw indicated to me that when Cain said “right now, today, I can’t support Perry as the nominee” was just a segway into why he (Cain) was a better pick for Republicans regarding border security. The question wasn’t “If you lose and Perry was the eventual GOP nominee against Obama, could you endorse Perry?”

    If Cain actually did mean he wouldn’t endorse the eventual GOP nominee, then he absolutely should be raked across the coals. My guess is his campaign will clarify this in short order.

  • minister_of_war

    Colin Powell IS NOT another Colin Powell in the Republican Party. Or is that just a comment that you make because of the color of someone’s skin?

  • bloggb

    And if Cain were the Republican nominee… I guess you would probably not go to the polls to vote for him?

  • bloggb

    Thank you.

  • gekster

    Who do you favor.

  • bloggb

    Someone new to R/S that is not afraid to dish out new opinions.

    I’m not concerned about Cain’s skeletons, nor his muslim position. I think he’s probably the cleanest candidate out there.

    Your positions re Perry mimick mine.. but get to know this place, these people eat their own real fast, and they don’t even burp afterwards.

    You will be hung at sundown for maintaining such a position for any candidate here, and as far as I know, the second coming of Christ (or a new Ronald Reagan) is not going to happen in 2012 – which is what I fear that everybody is waiting to vote for, and finally stop all the in-fighting. It’s not gonna happen. Take a deeper look around this place – I cannot see a win for the republican party anywhere.

    Thanks for your honest opinion.
    It was refreshing.

  • bloggb

    But I’ve been screwed by his debate performance.
    Full disclosure: I’m in ATL, a WSB radio hound, and know Herman… so I’m here defending/promoting him based on his recent upsurge.

    I’d like to defend Rick Perry too, but I’m scrambling to find a way to do it. I swear, this guy was on oxycontin in the last debate.

    Huntsman – Ambassador to China – again.

    Bachmann – chairwoman of something where she doesn’t have to talk to much…. Ambassador to hmmm, somewhere they don’t throw stones. (I’m ticked at this woman).

    Newt – VP or Sec of State or Defense.

    Cain – VP or head of neutering the EPA… perhaps FCC chairman.

    Santorum – Dunno what to do with this guy, he’s got a great mind, and knows what’s going on. But he would be beneficial in a (fill in name of winner here) campaign. Perhaps a possible VP.

    Ron Paul – Federal Reserve, Treasury Sec, on a fluke, head of the CIA.

    Palin – Ambassador to Russia,.

    I’m sick of this infighting, where everybody just hates candidate x and will not vote for y or whatever… this is exactly what got us O!

    NO THANKS to Rush or Hannity!

  • rightwingmom52

    I just don’t understand the need to take Cain’s statement out of context, Folks are certainly free to see different interpretations, but let’s at least look at the statement in its entirety without dropping words that make a difference.

  • davesinsanantonio

    of his actions and policies has not acted conservatively. So, how you can say he is a true conservative puzzles me.

  • SoFiMil

    Thanks for getting me re-focused on the issue at hand (10% rule).

  • SoFiMil

    Especially after being re-enlightened by your comment down thread. You MUST in all-caps says it all. Putting affirmative action quotas aside, and also putting aside whether the 10% rule/law has alterior motives, the colleges (in Texas) did not want to do this.

  • SoFiMil

    .

  • SoFiMil

    Change the y to i and add es.

  • jlsankot

    “blacks”? (Sarc)

  • davesinsanantonio

    someone is sure to hand him a saw!

    That, of course, is true of every candidate. In fact, there are and will be lots of saws handed around. Some candidates will even go out of their way to pick a few stray ones off the ground.

    The real question is how hard they will land and how much they hurt themselves when they do.

    Politics can be entertaining. Too bad that the pratfalls can hurt the country as well.

  • Common_Cents

    how can people read so much into statements like that and be so rigid is beyond me. He prob didn’t pick Perry at the time in order not to give Perry a boost.

    why would anyone pick anyone else that was beating them in the polls?

  • freentn

    is around the 22% that he got in 2008. He has had it easy so far but as soon as the others turn on him and more people are reminded of romneyCare he will sink back down in the quagmire of low 20′s as he always has.

    A flawed LIBERAL Flip-Flopper Dishonest campaigner who gets 22% of the vote and only wins 11 States, none in the South does NOT win the nomination and that is a historical FACT. Look it up:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008

    PS: A colin powell like fool (i.e, cain) who picks a LOSER like romney for his VP choice and makes the blasphemous statement that he will not support a Conservative Republican nominee for President (i,e. Gov Perry) does NOT win either.

  • paco12348

    I agree with Cain. We have an immigration system and need to be using it. Perry was great until he said Americans were heartless and all the apologies in the world will not change what he said.
    One must wonder how tainted Perry is in his view of illegals? He SAID he supported AZ’s Law. I wasn’t aware of that. I did. I sent money for the lawsuit. I never heard one word from Perry and wondered why.
    We won’t find a perfect candidate but in my view, the illegal immigration, the rule of law that no longer exists and Obamacare are the very ones we must find a warrior to tackle. No mealy mouth, bleeding heart but a slam dunk warrior.

  • freentn

    in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event that cain wins the nomination, I will hold my nose tightly and vote for him unlike the colin powell-like TRAITOR cain who will not support the MOST QUALIFIED CONSERVATIVE in the field Gov Perry. No cain like powell will support BO. We Conservatives are fortunate that cain is even more FOOLISH than colin powell and he BETRAYED the Republican Party by stabbing another Veteran and True Republican like McCain in the back before he (i.e. Rick Perry) wins the nomination. Now that cain has shown his true colors and his allegiance to BO, we True Conservatives can quickly write him off the Republican Slate FOREVER and throw him in the political dust bin with his fellow TRAITOR colin powell.

    I prefer not to think about what I will have to do in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event that romney miraculously breaks through his 22% ceiling. It is early and I do NOT want to PUKE before breakfast!

  • freentn

    who like colin powell is a TRAITOR to the Republican Party and to the United States of America!

  • renl57

    In 2008, I saw plenty of GOP base folks who said they would not support McCain if he were the nominee.

    Just this past week, right here on RedState I saw folks who said they would not support Romney if he were the nominee.

    Were they “traitors” too?

    No, because it wasn’t personal animus. It’s just their way of saying that certain candidates’ policies are totally unacceptable.

    Cain didn’t say “I hate Perry personally and I can’t support him.” He specifically called out Perry’s *immigration policy* as unacceptable, the implication being that if Perry changed his mind, Cain would change his mind about him.

    And guess what: Perry’s immigration position isn’t selling well with lots of other Republicans.

    Cain just used his new-found popularity to light a fire under Perry to get him to change his position. Good. That’s what Perry needs to do. I’ll bet that Perry is being told that privately by a lot of other Republicans: Shape up or else you’re history.

  • freentn

    but if any other reasonably conservative candidate wins the nomination I will work my butt off for the ticket as I did for McCain/Palin in 2008.

  • freentn

    the Republican Nominee then he supports BO.

  • renl57

    …won Reagan the presidency.

    Remember? “Are you better off now than 4 years ago”, etc.

    In the October 2012 debate between Obama and the GOP candidate, the GOP candidate has to hold his own at the very least against Obama’s attacks. He can’t appear to shrink and sputter as Perry did in the last debate, or else Obama could win re-election.

    Even better if the GOP candidate can hit Obama with a rhetorical salvo like Reagan did to Carter.

    So far, I haven’t seen Perry do that.

  • freentn

    before he exposed himself as the second coming of colin powell.

  • gunslingr45

    but are you calling Cain a traitor?
    if so why? I share your distain for Powell but what has that to do with Cain?

  • Jim Tomasik

    You said a couple days ago that you would not support Cain because of his comment during the “game show” which showed you as being every bit as stupid as the way you are acting now.

  • gunslingr45

    I had not see the “Blitzer” thing yet.

  • freentn

    colin powell is a much more accomplished and successful man than cain. I once admired him greatly and thought that he might be a great Republican President some day.

    It still saddens me to know that colin powell is just another racist.

    It is much easier for me to dismiss cain who is just a 3rd rate radio jockey who once ran a 3rd rate chain of pizza parlors. It does not sadden me a bit to see cain thrown into the political dust bin where he belongs along with the once great leader colin powell.

  • gunslingr45

    NF

  • gunslingr45

    really? He is no Powell.

  • papabear

    I did not hear his comment that way.

    The explanation after the statement talked about differentiation with other Republicans. The way I think he meant it was:

    If I have to drop out of the process, I will support anyone but Perry to be the nominee.

    He didn’t say that he would refuse support of Perry if he were up against Obama.

    Be careful – I think Hotair is selectively framing this passage.

  • Aaron Gardner

    And those who didn’t he called “purists”, “economic illiterates”. You can agree with him or disagree with him, I suppose, but you can’t act like he never said it and didn’t support TARP.

    See here.

  • Scope

    They are almost identical to Perry’s. 1. Secure the border. 2. Enforce the laws on the books. 3. Use the existing laws for the pathway to citizenship. He also said in a speech that the states should be involved in the problem. Perry has said that the state of Texas handled the Dream Act as a states issue.

    So if Perry’s position isn’t selling well with the people, how will Cain do with selling the same positions? Will he flip flop now?

    Part of the beauty of Perry is that he sticks by his principles, and says it like it is. What is Cain doing?

  • carolina

    Jay Leno made a joke about Perry…… and the audience was silent. A couple started to give a polite laugh, but quickly shut up when everyone else was silent. I think Perry has support from the ‘masses’ who don’t follow the detail political news like us junkies.
    The audience loved all the jokes about all the other political figures.
    It was a striking moment, which i noted because I still prefer Perry myself

  • Scope

    He said that he didn’t think it was necessary because they probably wouldn’t find anything anyway.

  • richp89

    work your butt off (Support) the nominee if they were not resonably conservative? Maybe that is what Herman Cain meant. Is it possible he meant he would not go out of his way to stump for Perry because of his immigration views? Is it possible that he would still give him his vote? Is it possible that like someone else said above that perhaps Herman Cain is just trying to influence Perry to rethink his views or his message on what he thinks about the border.

    All of these candidates have issues. If we burn up candidates for the one or two things that we do not believe fits into our definition of conservative and they eventually get the nomination then they start out in the General battered. It is good that these things are focused on and brought to light but we do not need to be treating them like they are worst than the Libs. Just curious as someone esle asked, why choose Powell as a yardstick for Cain? Why not Crist?

  • freentn

    on the head of a pin.

    Perry can not veto a law that was passed 11 years ago by an Overwhelming Majority of the Texas Legislature. cain knows that and he is trying to stab Perry iand the Republican in the back just as colin powell stabbed John McCain and the American People in the back when he endorsed BO.

  • porkandcheese

    This is why I was initially open to Huntsman, but he screwed up his rollout after touting his tech savvy, competence and organization. Then he could have stuck to policy and just plodded away making his case, but went shooting off his mouth like the rest of the ankle-biters instead. Now that they’ve started going after Perry and doing Romney’s dirty work for him, I like Huntsman better. At least he called them all a bunch of cranks, and they are.

    Cain and Gingrich did not impress me in the earlier debates with their talk of loyalty oaths for gays and Muslims. Santorum neglecting to thank the gay soldier for his service says something about his character. I find him an awful spokesperson for social issues, which should not be the emphasis of the 2012 election, because he is so unlikable. Not to mention he supported Specter over Toomey before getting trounced in the PA Senate race himself.

    Why is Santorum even running? Gingrich has not redeemed himself IMO, though conservatives like him at the debates. But I have a longer memory, perhaps, and suspect his dirty laundry would be aired if he gained traction. Cain mystifies me. As a private citizen, he has been admirably involved. But as a presidential candidate, he falls way short the prerequisite experience.

    Then Cain saying he cannot support Perry as the nominee is strike three for Cain. Flubbing the Palestinian right of return question was worse than Perry struggling to list Romney’s career of flip flopping after the clown car pile on at the last debate. With the Arab Spring and the recent attack on Israel at the UN, though I’m sure Cain supports Israel, the president must be up to speed on foreign policy. There is too much going on in the world right now, not to mention our own national security interests. Second, was the 999 plan, which is simply new taxes with a populist spin. Third, this demagoguery about the Texas Dream Act of 2001, while he supports Romneycare. Don’t tell me his supporting Romney as long as he foreswears federal mandates is different from supporting Romneycare. They are inseparable.

    It is really telling how all these so-called conservatives abandon any pretense of principle when naked ambition is running amok. Bachmann on Gardasil — she received contributions from a Merck competitor and accused Perry of taking bribes to jeopardize the health of pre-pubescent girls. Meanwhile in Minnesota, they vaccinate 12-month olds against Hep-B and have for years. Now Cain. Santorum argued against his own 2006 Border Security First Act at the last debate, accusing Perry of being soft on immigration, because he opposes a physically implausible fence along the southern border.

    Now I want Giuliani to get in just to talk less about social issues and more about national security; we don’t really have a hawk in this field. Also, as Rudy demonstrated in 2008, he is not afraid to attack Romney. The field has contributed to the prevailing wisdom that Obamacare is no longer an issue, because Romney gets a pass on his MA record.

  • freentn

    I am sorry I missed that. IMHO Perry is becoming the “Rocky” of the Republican Field only difference is that Perry has a gang of 4 midgets beating up on him along with the LSM and the rinos.

    We Americans love an underdog who fights the good fight and proves that good guys can win even against a gang of bad guys and bad gals.

    Americans love a hero.

  • porkandcheese

    I would not support Romney as the nominee, and I would vote for Obama. In my heart of hearts, I think Romney and Obama hold identical positions, but Obama has at least been honest and owned up to his positions. Romneycare and Obamacare are the same. Romney supported gay marriage in MA paving the way for a nationwide movement. Romney opposes Second Amendment rights. He supported abortion as late as 2005, and his healthcare law makes it available for a $50 co-pay. He is as bad on economic issues, as well.

    Perry has done a great job running Texas for over a decade, and people have been moving there in droves to take advantage of its business-friendly climate. It is also a border state with a large Hispanic population that voted 38% for Perry in his last election. We all recognize that Republicans need Hipanic support to win, especially in NM, FL and NV. It will take more than just putting Rubio, Sandoval or Martinez on the ticket. Incidentally, Rubio and Perry have identical positions on immigration. You must be careful not to alienate Hispanic voters with the kind of talk we’ve heard from Romney, who will say anything then deny it later, and Cain. In fact, Cain’s promise to get a third of the black vote and anti-Hispanic talk seems like a gambit to nudge Rubio further down on the VP list, and I don’t like candidates playing politics during an election. This is what Reagan meant by the 11th commandment. Romney and his minions are threatening to destroy the Reagan coalition.

  • porkandcheese

    I look forward to seeing how he fares under the scrutiny Perry has received.

  • porkandcheese

    +5

  • freentn

    have a weak stomach should watch it by the toilet.

    cain is not merely a TRAITOR, he is a SLIMY TRAITOR!

    Furthermore, he sounds like BO when BO is doing his ghetto-talk speech.

    cain says that 50% of Blacks will vote for him against BO. Is caindelusional, smoking crack or something? or is he just trying to con Conservatives?

    Is there anyone here, even the cainBots, who believe that 50% of the Blacks will vote for cain?

  • porkandcheese

    He got in trouble for that and apologized. Not supporting the nominee is political not emotional, and there is no excuse for Cain’s comment. I don’t even care what excuse he comes up with, and you can guarantee he will when his polling drops. This is his third strike IMO.

  • freentn

    I hate to think what I would do in the UNLIKELY event that romney breaks through his historical ceiling of 22% and gets the nomination. All I know at this point is I would NEVER vote for BO or any other democRat!

  • richp89

    susceptible to self fulfilling prophesies. Statements like “It?s been pretty clear to me from the second Perry debate that Romney is going to be the eventual nominee, but I had hopes that Cain could keep the dream alive a little longer?” are prime examples. If we were the coach for some team that is losing against a superior team how do you pump them up? Do you say well I know the other team is going to win so give it a try, or do you say you guys can do this? You can beat these guys. You just have to have heart and determination.

    When people hear stuff as mentioned above or that Obama winning re-election is a foregone conclusion then some/many people may say to themselves “what’s the point? I might as well just vote for Romney because he is going to win.” We have to pick the right person for the right reasons. If that person is a little on the fringe or he/she has never been a Governer or Senator or whatever else pre-ordains someone to be President then we need to get out in the social media and the forums and pump up the masses and make them believe it can happen. We can get the right person in office no matter the odds. I think the reasons stated above is the reasons we have been getting RINOs in the past. I think this was the thinking when Reagan ran. They were saying he is too far to the right. Things were bad enough then that people knew they had to get the right person in. Look at Christine O’donnell. They said she could not win the General. It was self fulfilling I believe because as soon as she won the nomination Karl Rove trashed the heck out of her and likely turned a lot of votes away from her that she likely would have otherwise received. We have to be the cheerleaders for the right person and stay behid them to the whitehouse.

  • lineholder

    On that point, I think both he and Perry are guilty of the same thing…giving certain people the benefit of the doubt too early without finding out the details first. Cain on TARP. Perry when he wrote support to Hilary for her healthcare plan.

    “The devil is in the details” as the saying goes. It is problematic. I’m not about to try to justify it. Even though Cain may be my first choice, I’m actually harder on him because of it than I am on other candidates.

    The comment that I made was actually directed more at the validity of repetitive comments that freentn has been making after spouting such ridiculous rhetoric over the weekend. That’s all. Out of character for me, perhaps, Aaron, but it’s gone beyond any scope of patience I’ve got.

  • porkandcheese

    Grow thicker skin. I know I’m not a racist, and I know I have a heart. Perry’s comment didn’t offend me.

  • porkandcheese

    I think the Republican party has great chances in 2012, but they must vote their conscience, not sacrifice principle for power.

  • porkandcheese

    Texas Governor Rick Perry On Arizona Immigration Lawsuit
    July 17, 2010

    The Gov Monitor

    Governor Rick Perry issued the following statement regarding Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott?s amicus brief in the U.S. v. State of Arizona case:

    “All Americans should support today?s actions by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott and other state attorneys general in their efforts to uphold the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and the right of states to provide for the public safety and security of their citizens.

    The federal government has failed to secure our borders as drug activity and murder rates soar in many border communities.

    States are left with no choice.

    Until the federal government secures the border, I expect more states to legislate in an effort to protect their citizens.

    Regardless of anyone?s feelings on the Arizona law, we must protect the 10th Amendment and right of states to legislate public safety to keep families and communities secure.

    I join Texas Attorney General Abbott in opposing the Obama Administration?s effort to undermine the right of states to protect their citizens and govern themselves.”

  • freentn

    others like Rudy and Huntsman but most importantly I disagree. ObamneyCare is a HUGE issue and is tied closely to the Economy Issue which is the NUMBER ONE issue and that is why I still think that Perry will win the nomination because he is head and shoulders above everyone else in the race on the Economy Issue and he is not the Father of ObamneyCare which is the issue that will romney even further below his 22% historic ceiling ultimately.

  • kmpesq

    Cain said what he said about Perry because Perry stated, in the debate, that anyone who is opposed to the Texas Dream Act was “heartless.” Seems to me that if somebody called me heartless for opposing backdoor amnesty, I’d have a hard time supporting that person too.

    I understand that Perry apologized for the comment and that’s good. I want to make it clear that I like Perry, I like Cain, I like Romney. I like all of our candidates a hell of a lot better than Zero. But perhaps Cain was just insulted by Perry’s comment, had not heard the apology, and based what he said off of that. I think we owe it to Cain to, perhaps, hear him out on this issue as I’m sure it will come up again.

    That said, if Perry is the nominee and Cain does not support him, then yes he is a traitor. But to call him Colin Powell now, at this stage, is premature and stupid

  • tyman

    Is a lot different than just calling someone heartless. Romney has been not only misrepresenting, but lying about what Perry said.

    Offering an in state tuition rate is hardly backdoor amnesty…it’s trying to make someone who is a victim of their parents’ choices become a productive member of society, instead of a drain. Texas does NOT want more illegals, they are a drain on the state!

    Texas can’t offer amnesty, and they certainly can’t send the illegals back. What are they to do?

    I think Perry was clearly frustrated at being the punching bag, and he said the wrong thing (how many of us haven’t done this?).

    Cain saying that Perry is soft on amnesty just isn’t good enough. Herb, how about specifics? I wonder if Cain has asked Gov. Perry just what he would do. As Herb said on his radio show, “You just might learn something”.

  • Scope

    Perry prefaced his comment with the fact that the children were brought to the state by their parents, and they are there through no fault of their own. He said that if you fault the children, you have no heart. Wrong wording yes, and he has apologized for that. The statement has been blown out of proportion, and has been repeated by Romney and others as him having said that if you don’t support illegal immigration, you have no heart. That is factually incorrect, but picked up by so many and repeated as Romney told it. There are still many that say they don’t care if he apologized for calling some heartless, but they were mostly anti-Perry people to begin with.

    Cain saying he wouldn’t support Perry because of his immigration position is ludicrous as he supports an almost identical plan as Perry’s. Cain lowed himself to pile on Perry, and not even with a valid or factually correct reason. That I hold against Cain to the point that I wish I had not sent him money.

    I wonder if anyone has corrected him yet that gun control is not a states issue.

  • freentn

    loose and as cain might say, “dat cannon’s ’bout to backfire!”

  • Scope

    Perry prefaced his whole argument on the fact that the children were not at fault for their parents bringing them into the state. That is very different than what Romney said about the statement the next day after the debate. He said that people who are against illegal immigration aren’t heartless, they have a heart and a brain. Romney’s misinterpretation of the Perry comment is what has been published everywhere. Cain was standing on the same stage and heard exactly what Perry said, but decided to go along with Romney’s miswords about the issue.

    I really believe that Cain probably knows in his heart that it will still be a long hard slog to get to the top and win the nom. So he is playing it safe and staying with Romney so he could be appointed by Romney if he wins the nom. Cain has probably already written Perry off. I wonder where Cain will be if Perry manages to regain the frontrunner spot, and wins the nom. He’s probably already destroyed any chance in a possible Perry admin. Who needs wishy washy cutthroats in your admin.

  • freentn

    and disrespectful and I do NOT appreciate being compared to a TRAITOR like cain.

    Your Alinsky attack will NOT work on me. I said what I meant and meant what I said.

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    Had you forgotten that one of the oldest liberal distinctives is the devaluation of language?

  • kmpesq

    Then it’s ok for Perry to misspeak, but not Cain?

    Again, I like all of our candidates. I would support Perry, Romney, Cain, Bachmann, Santorum, Gingrich, Christie, Palin or almost any republican over Zero, because I believe that he has been that terrible.

    But, in this primary, I think its important to be fair and honest. All of the candidates have problems. All of the candidates have misspoken. All of the candidates deserve to have the opportunity to walk their statements back.

    As an aside, I see no practical difference from saying someone has no heart and calling them heartless. They both imply that the target is cruel and uncaring. No one was saying that they couldn’t go to the colleges. What people who oppose the TX dream act were objecting to was the idea that TX was giving illegals in-state tuition when they were not citizens of the State of Texas or the United States of America.

    Of course, as a human being, I feel for those kids, as any decent person is. But, we’re either a nation of laws or we’re not. Ignoring laws we don’t like is the stock and trade of the modern democrat party. Conservatives/Republicans should be better than that.

  • lineholder

    I’m just going to try to be honest about this. If you go back and review freentn’s comments, the primary content of 95%+ has been focused on one of two things…discrediting Romney and discrediting Cain. Given that this person is relatively new to the site, as in coming in right around the time of the FL debates, the moderators may be willing to grant him/her some leeway. For my own part, I see too much of the potential for an external influence that is merely spreading divisive propaganda to take this poster’s comments in good faith.

  • freentn

    No way you can spin cain out of the mess he laid in the Republican backyard.

    In no uncertain terms he said he would not could not does not support Rick Perry. There was nothing unequivocal about it.

    cain did say that he would support romney if romney just LIES to Republicans and Flip-Flops on ObamneyCare.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6g5OxJuM-M

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    is that the part you hate? or is it the part where you stay home and hope nobody notices?

    Conservative in the Primary, Republican in the General.

  • kmpesq

    The last paragraph should start “Of course, as a human being, I feel for those kids, as any decent person SHOULD.” I apologize for the typographical error.

  • Aaron Gardner

    I am just providing facts.

  • notpropagandized

    does not have the burden of states immigration record where legislature calls the shots, not the governor.

  • lineholder

    What Cain said was 30%, not 50%. It is rather high, but there are commentators at other sites who have said that 25% is a realistic figure. They see 30% as being high. I think it depends on how things go. The black community is questioning a lot of things right now, and it just depends on how this situation unfolds.

    But you might want to watch it with the “ghetto-speech” comments because it smacks of racial bias.

  • freentn

    spin cain out of the messes that he keeps laying. As soon as they start attempting to clean up one mess cain lays another one.

    Can’t wait to see how he puts his soiled foot back in his odious mouth today.

  • lineholder

    You responded to a comment that I made based on assumptions. I’m just clarifying why I made those comments. End of story.

  • acat

    Go. Write in Mickey Mouse or Donald Trump for POTUS, then vote GOP for the down-ticket races.

    Mew

  • porkandcheese

    People claimed it was more important to send a message and nominate the witch than support the only Republican who had consistently won elections for years. I disagreed, but now I’m seeing their point. There are politicians in both parties who are interested only in maintaining their seat at the table of power. These are the establishment players pushing Romney. He would be the final nail in the GOP coffin just like he was in MA where he ended an uninterrupted 16-year run of Republican governors and paved the way for Deval Patrick, the beta model for Obama’s national election. Everything about Obama, Romney has done first. He is a Judas goat, and he will lead conservatives to their slaughter.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    that “Lame Pony Show” that I was mentioning is the trotting out of “what I said was” “what my record shows” “what their record shows” “what they’ve said”… There is no debate on the platform or proposed plans, th

    I only WISH that Reagan WAS running this time around…

    Are you really debating the merits of the “debate” format that the media networks have created for the purpose of arguing soundbites, and pitting our candidates against each other?

    Or are you just “ANTI-PERRY”?

    Let’s give Perry some time to course correct… and prep… the last 3 debates were right on top of each other, and all the other candidates have put a lot of miles and stump speeches under them… Perry still has to run a state… I’m quite sure he is busy…

    I think he will course correct by the next debate. If not, he goes Bachmann… The process will continue, all the way to convention if necessary.

  • dajeeps

    What many learned in 2008 is what a candidate says on the campaign trail matters. Cain’s 9-9-9 plan adds a new tax and prioritizes funding the big government mess over cleaning it up. If we only get one thing we want from the next congress and the next president, is it really just a new tax to fund the big government mess?

    That’s not what I want, certainly. As things stand now, I’m going with Gingrich who takes the cake in workable plans and commonsense solutions to the big government mess.

  • notpropagandized

    Cain answered that he could not support Perry as the nominee right now which was not responsive to Blitzer’s question and certainly has no bearing on supporting Perry if he actually won the nomination. That support would most definitely be forthcoming from Cain to Perry. But Cain does not support Perry now because Cain supports Cain now.

    Apart from that, Cain and Perry are BOTH emphatically in favor of absolute security on the border. I support both candidates w/preference for HermanCain because he can communicate. Perry would be a great president. He’s a heck of a lot better communicator on his feet than our current Teleprompter in Chief.

  • porkandcheese

    He is beating Cain in polls, too, but Cain said he would choose him as his VP.

  • porkandcheese

    The Texas Dream Act of 2001 is nothing remotely like front or back door amnesty. It says Texas residents who are demonstrably pursuing citizenship and have been accepted to college can get the same in-state tuition rate as their fellow classmates. They are residents like anyone else who pays property and sales taxes in Texas. All state schools give favorable tuition rates to residents.

  • acat

    Note to freentn – words have meanings. Traitor is a serious charge, it has a legal definition that I don’t think Cain meets. Your reaction appears over the top and one starts to wonder what your agenda is.

    Mew

  • freentn

    that he would not, could not, will not support Rick Perry if he is the Republican nominee.

    And cain clearly said that he would support romney if romney simply LIES to Republicans again and Flip-Flops on ObamneyCare.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6g5OxJuM-M

    I urge Conservatives to watch the cain/Blitzer clip and make up their own minds. My mind is made up. cain is off my list for consideration as President in the Republican Primary. No amount of spin or persuasion will change that.

    I hasten to add that in the unlikely event cain is the nominee, I will not be a TRAITOR like cain is to Conservatives and I will hold my nose very tightly and vote for him.

  • porkandcheese

    If we’re going to bicker about the border fence, there’s no better guy than Rudy. He has a private security firm that I suspect is the real reason he runs for office. It keeps his speaking fees high and gives him credibility on national issues. 911 and his America’s Mayor TM paved the way for him in this regard. As a former Attorney General, he would be great in debates. But he’s tougher than Christie Creme, who should finish his first term in NJ.

  • streiff

    The bill passed in TX had nothing to do with immigration or amnesty. It said if you went to high school in TX for three years and graduated and were admitted to a public college/university in TX you qualified for in-state tuition.

    There is much to not like about it but mischaracterizing it as “backdoor amnesty” borders on dishonest.

  • freentn

    from cain’s Traitorous statement on CNN Wolf Blitzer’s show but just watch the video Conservative and make up your own minds:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6g5OxJuM-M

  • richp89

    I did not compare you to Cain. I compared your response to Cain’s response. Same context. Open your eyes. It was merely another way to suggest to you that maybe Cain’s response is being taken out of context. That maybe he meant it differently. He said today he could not support him. Quit making it out like he switched sides. What are you going to do if Cain wins the nomination? Vote for Obama? Not vote (a vote for Obama)? I guess at that point you will be just as bad as you suggest Cain is. Grow some thicker skin. You are offended when there is no reason to be offended.

    Also look at your hypocrisy. You blast me for comparing you to a conservative principled person and then you turn around and suggest that I am like the Libs using Alinsky tactics. How pathetic.

    Your outburst here coupled with your repeated comparisons of Cain to Powell over many other traitorous people you could have used in the Republican party or even the Democrat party for that matter since you would be comparing a so called traitor to another traitor, is under suspicion in my humble opinion.

  • uselogic

    One wonders. Especially considering freetn is a veteran of 2 days with a profuse amount of posting. Hmmm?

  • lineholder

    My general impression is that if the type of rhetoric that’s been used had been aimed at Perry, the poster would have been called on it already. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but it does seem to present a double standard.

    Well, I’m off to work, and I’ve got reports to work on rather heavily for the next few days. Wish everyone well on this one.

  • tyman

    Romney, I don’t think, will be the nominee. I think folks are more aware of him now, and seeing what happened to John “My friends” McCain, no one wants a moderate.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Herb the one that said a Mormon couldn’t win in the south? What powerful force has caused him to change his mind?

    I think Herman is trying to have it both ways. Then again, birds of a feather flock together, and Herman is sounding like a flip-flopper. I wonder who does that?

  • annplato

    Please tell me WHAT was traitorous in Herman Cain’s answers?

  • streiff

    let’s drop it, okay?

  • morstar150

    Where in this interview do you get the impression that Herman Cain has made “Traitorous” statements. I have just watched the video that you cite and I though he was great. The only thing I found objectionable was the Media’s (in this case Wolf Blitzer’s) attempt to get Republican candidates to answer the “gottcha” question. I have long given up on the that the media will actually ask an honest question, like Why is our economy so bad and why is it not getting any better? Instead, Republicans are made to answer stupid questions about issues that matter only to leftists, like will you reinstate don’t ask don’t tell? or will you be submissive to your husband as president? or will you let immaginary person die because he doesn’t have health insurance?

    The whole premise of this questioning is false and based on issues that are not that important. Our country is on an economic slide into oblivion and we need to answer why a gay soldier must hide his face in a youtube video? Get real! and freentn you need to get real too. If you have fault with a candidate let us know why but be legit. You quite frankly didn’t make a case.

  • annplato

    that our next president will reverse the DADT, which was the most common sense approach to the issue of “gays in the military”.

    The last bastion of social morality was the US military. Obama HAD to destroy that too. I don?t think it is too late to have it reversed!

    I am sick and tired of the in-your-face, vulgar and obscene of the activist gay agenda! WE MUST put a stop to it, before we become the 21st Century Sodom and Gomorrah!

  • porkandcheese

    He really stepped in it, and this was after he defended Romney on healthcare.

  • acat

    are a bit fewer in number on Red State than Perry supporters. (perhaps related to Perry’s campaign launch at Red State Gathering, perhaps not)

    That freentn has an agenda is clear. That freentn has an anti-Cain agenda is clear. That freentn occaisonally lapses into hyperbole with a racist undertone – ghetto-speak – is also clear.

    Really wish ZootSuit were around, this is right in his wheelhouse.

    Mew

  • GregInFla

    regarding immigration. Find one statement from Rubio in favor of a federal DREAM act. In fact, find one from Perry. We’ll be waiting. Both gentlemen favor enforcement of current immigration laws.

  • runner12

    the bill. I know that I did, both the original and the amended version. It is not that hard to find and both are short and easy to read.

    I don’t agree with Perry’s decision on this, but it is not the bogeyman some people are making it out to be. Misinformation creates exaggeration and hysteria and this case is no exception.

    I would also encourage people to look at it from the state of Texas’ point of view. You may still disagree with it, as I do, but at least you will have gained some understanding of where they are coming from.

  • freentn

    about Rudy. Another advantage to Rudy in the race is that it would take votes away from romney. Re: Huntsman though a moderate, he is much much better than romney and I would like to see him catch on and take more votes away from romney.

  • freentn

    vote for romney in the primary. I will vote for anybody but romney in the primary. In the unlikely event that romney is the nominee, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

    The rinos need to understand that the distaste for romney is very real and it will be a disaster for the Republican Party if romney is the nominee.

  • freentn

    ticket in 2012. But I am not going to commit to voting for romney because I doubt that he will be the nominee. In the unlikely event that romney is the nominee, I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

    The rino Establishment needs to understand that the distaste for romney is very real and it will be a disaster for the Party if romney is the nominee.

  • freentn

    “

  • freentn

    he said that he would not support the best conservative in the field and that he endorsed romney. Using the race card is not going to win Cain any favor. Playing the race card is something that democrats do not Republicans.

  • freentn

    paul and now cain piling on Gov Perry. I expect behavior in violation of President Reagan’s 11th Commandment from romney. He always runs dirty campaigns and he is after all a liberal, but I did not expect it from santorum, bachmann and Cain.

  • freentn

    ..

  • freentn

    …

  • freentn

    quote in the the 1980 Nashua Debate when the rino moderators threatened to cut his mic off, “I am paying for this microphone!”

    Btw, the candidates had chairs in that debate.

    That is the kind of fire that I would like to see from Gov Perry.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO2_49TycdE

  • freentn

    “I don?t believe he can win for the following reasons. One, he ran before. He has an ankle bracelet on called ?RomneyCare.? Secondly, I know the South and you have to win the South. Mitt Romney didn?t win the South when he ran; John McCain won the South, Mike Huckabee won the South. And I think that the reason that he will have a difficult time winning the South is because when he ran the first time he did not do a good job of communicating his religion.

    Unfortunately, it doesn?t bother me. But I do know that it?s an issue with a lot of the Southerners. You don?t win South Carolina and Florida and Georgia, you can?t win the nomination. And then you can?t win the presidency.”

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/herman-cain-mitt-romney-wont-win-because-he-doesnt-do-a-good-job-of-communicating-his-religion/

  • wrenhal

    Are these two just the same person agreeing with himself for appearances??

  • acat

    I will encourage you, though, to spend some time – maybe in the dead of night, when nobody can year you – practicing what you would say to friends and acquaintances who, as you did above, threaten to not vote at all if Romney is on the ticket.

    As Moe is fond of saying, Elections. Have. Consequences.

    If one of the consequences of Mitt winning the primary is Conservatism loses the House, the Senate, or any statehouses, it’s on those who said “No way” to Mitt.

    Mew

  • acat

    Cain pushed Perry further to the right. Cain, intentionally or not, helped get Perry unstuck.

    As for the “race card”, I don’t see it. Did Cain make some claim of privilege? Did Cain claim whitey’s keepin’ him down? Did Cain call anyone a bigot? From where I sit, it looks to me like you’re hearing dog whistles that aren’t there, freentn.

    I know I phrase things differently, more casually, more inside jokes when I’m hangin’ with friends from the old neighborhood than the jargon-rich dialect I use to run a meeting about on a technical issue. So what?

    Many speakers – including Hillary and Bubba Clinton and W Bush – change their speaking cadences for different audiences. It’s not “playin’ the race card”, it’s making the audience more comfortable, speaking in a lingo they’re more used to hearing.

    Mew

  • rightwingmom52

    And I can’t count the number of times I’ve turned up the southern accent to charm my opponent in a negotiation or when I needed a favor. Doesn’t always work, but it has more often than not.

    I don’t speak cat, but I bet sometimes you purr and other times you hiss, depending on what the situation calls for. LOL.

  • acat

    Not so much? Eh. Had to give it a try.

    Mew

  • freentn

    Ticket but I am praying that romney is NOT at the top of the Ticket because I honestly don’t know what I will do.

    Another thing that we must consider is that it will be a Herculean task for even a Republican President with a Republican Congress to fix the problems that we face as a Nation. I have NO confidence in romney’s ability to get the job done.

  • lineholder

    Wanted to respond to this. I did get to ask a few questions today and what you mentioned above is correct. Actually, what one of them said was, “Three hundred million people in this country; 50 million of them Hispanic/Hispanic descent; 12 million of those illegal; so that 4% of population gets favored? Where we come from, they would be shot!”

  • rightwingmom52

    That gives a little more perspective, doesn’t it?

  • lineholder

    you do realize that he didn’t mean it literally, right? LOL. That thought occurred to me after I posted.

    It was an interesting conversation. The person who was most knowledgeable about the subject mentioned a group of Hispanics for legal immigration called “You Don’t Speak For Me” that was pretty active until about 2008. Apparently, some our legal Latino citizens are thinking about trying to another group of the same sort together again.

    I’ll send more info later, okay?

  • rightwingmom52

    when you’re talking about shooting and Mexico these days…well???

    Definitely interested in hearing more.

  • bloggb

    And it exactly why we now have Obama/BIden, instead of McCain/Pailin.

    WIth power comes responsibility. The repubikans voted their conscience in 2008 – ie they didn’t vote.

    So they now reap what they have sown – everything is now in the sewer in this country, thanks to them for pissing off all over the smell test and abstaining.

    Yeah – I speak for myself, definitely not for you. My business and economic profile is in the toilet exactly because of people like you.

    Good luck. I know you won’t be at the polls voting R on the presidential ticket because whatever candidate we end up with doesn’t meet your perfect candidate profile.

    Perhaps you should run for president instead.

    Perry 2012.

    .

  • gekster

    You are the one full of bs.
    If we voted for what we believe instead of who can win, we wouldn’t be in this mess we are now in.
    You are saying to hell with principle, vote for who “I” think can win.
    How far has that got you.

  • JSobieski

    will take the R’s in a lot of different directions.

    For example, do you know that the vast majority of people under the age of 30 support same sex marriage? At some point, the Republican position on that issue will hurt us.

    What if demographically arguments based on class warfare become extremely popular?

    Just saying that the “reality” argument can lead to all sorts of different outcomes.

  • freentn

    .

  • defenseconservative

    I may vote for Romney if he’s the GOP nominee (although I will not vote him in the primaries), but I will absolutely not vote for Perry for any office. If Perry is the nominee, I will vote for a third party candidate. Better a Congressionally-shackled Obama than a RINO who will discredit the GOP forever.

    My beef with Cain is on a different issue.

    Herman Cain no longer supports the FairTax. Why? I don’t know. I guess some Establishment Republicans have visited him and have used some scare tactic on him. Maybe they’ve threatened to have the GOP’s whale donors withhold donations to Cain unless he would back off the FairTax. Maybe they’ve used some other scare tactic on him. Whichever, it’s clear that they’ve managed to scare Cain so badly that he has dumped the FairTax.

    If Cain had steel for a spine, instead of a limp noodle, he would’ve continued to support the FairTax. But he no longer does. He now promotes the 9-9-9 plan (i.e. double taxation) as his solution, not the FairTax.

    His supporters claim that for him the 9-9-9 plan is only a “transitional step”. Kaminsky seems to have bought this lie, for whatever reason. But Cain means it as a FINAL step, not a transitional step. He no longer mentions the FairTax in any debates or interviews. He mentioned it twice during the first debate, but since the second debate, he has NEVER even ALLUDED to the FairTax during any debate or interview, while explaining his 9-9-9 plan in detail many times. During the last debate, Herman Cain never even ALLUDED to the FairTax and continued to promote his 9-9-9 plan, while Gary Johnson mentioned it twice and defended it as fair.

    His supporters claim that he doesn’t have enough time during debates to even mention the FairTax.

    But that’s garbage. If Ron Paul can badmouth America’s foreign policy and its honorable military in every answer he gives, regardless of what question is he answering, then surely Cain can find at least 2 seconds during each debate to utter the phrase “Fair Tax”.

    Like I said, Herman Cain no longer supports the FairTax.

  • rulken

    Cain has shown nothing but common sense! All his answers have been down to earth, and make sense to most working people. So I ask the same question as “annplato”, what was traitorous about his statement?

  • rulken

    You hit the nail right on the head! Now just take it one step further, Cain – Gingrich for a ticket, think of what they could do in a debate!!
    OMG ! I wouldn’t miss it for all the tea in China!

  • rulken

    I don’t know what your talking about. Cain hasn’t flipped on anything yet! Cain specifically stated that Perry put illegals ahead of legal citizens for college funds. What part of that didn’t you understand?
    Cain said he would secure the border. Perry didn’t stand with Arizona against King Obama.

  • rulken

    Freentn; you haven’t posted anything factual yet. Do you just think you can come here and shoot your pea brain opinion off?
    What your saying about Cain is just lies, and twisted half truths.
    If you like perry so much just vote for him. Stop with the stupid remarks, we are educated, and informed citizens here.

  • rulken

    I guess one thing is for sure, we are getting to know that “freentn” , is a true hypocrite, if nothing else.

  • Finrod

    Since I believe that Cain used the very important qualifier ‘Right now’ in what he said. Plus you’re throwing around the word ‘traitor’ without any real knowledge of what it means.

    IMHO your comments add NEGATIVE value to this site, and if there was a way I could read RedState and have it automatically hide all your comments, I would do so.

  • rulken

    Oh, some body picking on your socialist Perry for president???
    Get a grip, and start “acting” a little intelligent will you?

  • acat

    tinkering, as all statists do, with the “big machine”. Trying to make it more efficient. Not realizing he should be trading it in for something much smaller.

    Romney would likley end up as the Gerald Ford .. honest, hardworking guy but not interested in really rocking the boat .. of the era. I’d like to think that we’ve had our Gerald Ford in George W. Bush*, and we can move straight from Obama to “our” Reagan .. but I’m not sure there is one in the race.

    Mew

    * Bush is arguably better than Ford in several critical ways – he appointed actual conservatives to the Supremes… but neither one was Reagan.

  • freentn

    I agree we need someone like President Reagan.

    The only one that I see with that potential is Gov Perry.

  • porkandcheese

    NT

  • freentn

    I am! a Tofu & Bean sprouts person

  • lineholder

    Sort of like frick and frack, cheech and chong…you get the idea, right?

  • rightwingmom52

    …

  • lineholder

    !

  • avagreen

    entered the race. I think they would make a good combo.
    Regarding Perry’s “upchuck”……even here it’s been posted about his back surgery he had in July and was the reason he was so late in entering the race. He wore a back brace until a few weeks prior to the first debate.
    Anyone looking at his face could see that he was in pain. The faltering began at the last part of each debate after standing for an hour, which pain I’ve been told is excruciating. Give the guy some credit. The MSM certainly isn’t noising this about. At least his supporters need to.
    Look at his face in the photo at at the top of this blog. That is a man trying to hold it together because he is hurting like hell.
    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/09/perry-to-critics-country-doesnt-need-smoothest-debater/

  • porkandcheese

    Freentn is comment-stalking me, and the rest of you can mind your business instead of promoting conspiracies.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    Nt

  • lineholder

    It’s nothing directed at you personally, okay?

  • luvnthebigsites

    .

  • dudette

    at State Dept—he is good on foreign policy altho i wouldnt mind him head of Education unless they get rid of that dept. I know wishful thinking..

  • trickamsterdam

    “a Colin Powell like fool” is because they’re both black. Seriously. There’s nothing even remotely close, otherwise.

    Cain has said he will support the R nominee, whoever he or she is, but even if he didn’t, it would be closer to the conservatives who said they wouldn’t support John McCain…than to Colin Powell, a liberal Republican who may have voted for Obama for racial reasons, but probably was glad to for POLITICAL reasons, also, like multiple others (e.g. Lincoln Chafee).

    PS: No, Cain probably won’t win, but Romney almost certainly will. But between the two, Cain and Perry, surely Cain will, before the other (Perry). Sorry (no I’m actually not).

  • trickamsterdam

    Cain, he’s already proving me wrong. Also, Newt is kinda out there…maybe people will say “why not?”

    But you’re right. I’m not so sure it’s us, so much, as the News People. Why isn’t Cain qualified if Obama was if you compare their records?

  • williamjameson

    be a bad Veep. All candidates say ridiculous things, it happen from over exposure, stress and lack of sleep. As for reasons most voters look for fiscal, economic, foreign policy and other reasons.

    An AG? That’s a lot of power for someone who made a bad remark or two about gays.

  • williamjameson

    aka OWS so its no surprise the bozo’s have double standards when it comes to experience. But these tools also thought John Edwards would have been a charismatic leader.Edwards late wife vetted Johnny to the world after the cheating scandal. The media never second guessed their piss poor vetting skills.