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Little did we know how well Herman Cain was doing last week

Romney Perry Cain

Before the cold that really took me down since Friday (to explain my silence since), we checked in on the pre-debate polling for Herman Cain’s first debate as a major contender.

It turns out that Cain’s momentum had taken him even further ahead of the Tuesday debate, though post-debate polling suggests he took at hit in the national audience.

I’m far enough behind that I have four national polls to catch up on. First we’ll check on the three that were in the field before the debate. In no particular order we have Ipsos for Reuters polled 410 Republican adults, mobile and landlines, MoE 4.8. Next is Hart/McInturuff for NBC News and the Wall Street Journal polled 336 GOP Primary voters, mobile and landline, MoE 5.35. Last is Public Policy Polling’s survey of 484 “usual Republican primary voters,” automated. MoE 4.5.

The results vary, despite all three being out in the field for virtually the same period, and all ending the day before the debate. Ipsos, taking its first poll in 4 months, has the same leader: Mitt Romney. He’s up at 21, but with Herman Cain close behind at 19, Ron Paul third at 12, Rick Perry way down near irrelevance at 9, and the rest below him and Other. That’s a close race at the top, 58/42 in favor of Romney. Cain’s lead over Perry is 85/15, not really in doubt.

NBC is better for Cain and for Perry. Cain leads at 27 to Romney’s 23 and Perry’s 16. That’s a 64/46 edge for Cain, and a 74/26 lead for Romney per my math. By itself the poll suggests a clear 1, 2, 3 order in the race, clearly different from the Ipsos poll, though.

PPP has yet another result. Cain also leads, but all the way up at 30, to Romney’s 22, Newt Gingrich‘s 15, and Perry’s 14. I show that being an 81/19 edge for Cain over Romney, not really in doubt at all.

So if I do some crude math to average the three polls, and to be fair I should double-weight the registered voter polls over the poll of adults, Herman Cain actually went into the race as a decently solid frontrunner, with a 66% chance of being ahead of Mitt Romney. Rick Perry’s results have turned quite volatile, with some results sticking him with the pack, and others keeping him alive in the top tier.

So that’s where we were before the debate. Now we turn to the first post-debate poll. Rasmussen Reports polled 1,000 likely GOP primary voters, landlines plus an online panel with partisan and census postweighting. Romney ties it back up in this poll, matching Cain at 29. Gingrich again shows in third at 10, Perry at 9, and nobody else shows above Other.

So one can at least conclude that Herman Cain was not harmed overly by his first debate in the national spotlight. He went in better liked than the others: NBC had him +46 thanks to 23% not knowing who he is and only 6 having a negative opinion. Contrast with Romney’s +35, Perry’s +20 (remember when he had the favorability leads?), and Gingrich’s +26. PPP had Cain at +51 to Romney’s +24, Perry’s +4 (no typo), and Gingrich’s +27.

Perry’s favorables have crashed back to Earth. When (not if) Cain’s follow, where will the race end up? That, the math won’t tell me.

Crossposted from Unlikely Voter

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COMMENTS

  • cajungirl2012

    I swear someone is running a poll every hour. I ignore them now. Makes my head spin.

    That said, Cain under a microscope has been revealing. Not good.

  • damianvincent

    No way no how I’m supporting a guy who’ now admitted he’ll be raising taxes on us, or some flip flopping liberal.

  • redmymind

    I’m not a “tax person,” but it would definetly not be cool for me to pay an extra 9% in sales tax on top of what we have to dish out here on the Left Coast!

  • explodinghead

    I am sorry to repost this comment in a new diary, but it probably belongs better here, as this diary was just posted a few minutes ago.
    If we are high on Cain then we need to know about his views on the second amendment.
    I listened to the Mark Davis (radio) show this morning. He played a clip of Cain in May of this year on Wolf Blitzers show, where Cain when asked about the second amendment said that the second amendment was a states issue. Cain initally said that he was supportive of the second amendment, but when asked further if states could make their own rules on gun control, he said it was a states right issue.?
    Cain needs to stop with the states rights on gun control. The right to bear arms is enumerated clearly in the Constitution. It is not like gay marriage or abortion, which are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution and therefore are left to the states to decide. If Cain stated his position correctly, that would mean if a state wanted to, they could entirely limit the possession of arms. If he did not mean this, he really needs to clarify this statement NOW not later

  • macbookben

    …under a microscope has got some “s’plainin’”to do. The real test is how far away you have to be from a candidate to keep from smelling the stink. And you know, everybody’s does.

  • rightwingmom52
  • eabjr

    Herman under the microscope is seen to be more an more of a real person who has worked his way up and played by the rules…

    and there would not be an “extra 9%”…you are already paying extra taxes now…BUT all hidden taxes you already pay would be no more and replaced w/ a 9% sales tax….they are replaced with a lower, visible. and one time flat rate so you gain…

  • explodinghead

    As I told her I have crazy work hours and so am not able to come to RS and see if these questions have been previously addressed. So, when it came up this am on the radio, it concerned me. I am very glad she was able to gve me some evidence to clear this up. The second amendment is a huge deal for me, so it’s nice when someone here can help me out. Thanks RWmom52!

  • APA Guy

    I could get on board very easily.

    The problem is, his proposals are easily twisted by this government if the wrong driver climbs into the big chair…and he nearly lost me forever with that “empowerment” through the government BS.

    Cain has a good central message (tax reform..who doesn’t want it but the loony left?). He needs only sharpen his policy and stop getting pulled into the wasteland of economic “equality” and he will be a far better candidate.

  • explodinghead

    Your indian name should be “she who types like the wind”. Sorry, I am waaaaay slower with the typing and the posting, sorry!

  • adamd

    I like Cain, but I am voting for Perry. Cain has a few things working against him: 1) money, he has very little to compete right now 2) the third 9 in his plan will not go over well once it is properly explained to voters and 3) next debate he will take ever more heat than before.

    Polls right now matter little, at this point in 2004 Howard Dean was leading and in 2008 Giuliani was leading. Did anyone really expect either Dean or Giuliani to be the nominee? I do not think so.

    Much like Kerry won the Iowa Democratic caucus in 2004. I think Perry will win the Iowa Republican caucus in 2012. Nobody really wants Romney and voters will have to choose between Gingrich (reminds me of Gehphardt),, Cain (reminds me of Clark), Bachmann (this year’s Dean) or Perry who had the money, has the record and is a proven winner. Apologies for comparing the Republican candidates to the Democrats, however there are parallels to the two races.

    The Republicans can agree on three things 1) this is an election we should win 2) we do not want Romney and 3) we need to pick a candidate who can win and has a proven record. All of those favor Perry.

  • rightwingmom52

    .
    .
    .

  • izoneguy

    999 is being torn to shreds.
    He did get a few high profile endorsements on the plan,
    but who has endorsed Herman Cain?

    Gov. Rick Perry has released a jobs plan and it is a very good one

  • Jim Tomasik

    I don’t think anyone heard it.

  • macbookben

    I think Gov. Perry is probably the GOP’s best, most articulate advocate for the 2nd amendment in the field (and Ron Paul). This area is not Cain’s forte. But I don’t think either candidate will do anything in a Republican administration to further dismantle individual ownership of firearms, an implicit goal of the current administration. Now maybe Perry would say something about rededicating these rights to every citizen, but Cain’s big pitch is on jobs, the economy, and taxes. And that is what is resonating most forcefully with voters right now.

  • NeoKong

    He has sucked all the oxygen out of the room.
    Perry and Romney were on the side of a milk carton last week.
    People were all talking to and about Herman Cain.

    I think he had a good week.

  • explodinghead

    With many of the primaries being moved up it will hurt the remaining viable Conservatives in the race.Aat this point I’m thinking Cain & Perry. With the GOP threatening to take away 50% of the delegates of states that move their primary up it seems to really help Romney and hurt the rest. At this time it is not clear how many delegates will be taken away by the GOP. With the fluidity of the primary dates is it possible to figure out a cut-off date or set of primary results, that will enable those of us who are with one of the top two Conservative candidates, to realize our guy cannot win and vote accordingly for the other candidate?
    I have tried to look at this, but I am not analysis guy and right now there are too many variables for me.In 2008 it became obvious that Texans votes in the primary would not matter, Mc Cain had the nomination, but if there are enough early indicators we could at least send support (financial or otherwise) to the Conservative. Any thoughts?

  • LibertarianHawk

    He doesn’t have much money or organization. And while I’d *love* to believe that a candidate can perform well without much in the way of those two resources, I’ll believe it when I see it.

    It would be like running a marathon without any liquids to rehydrate your body.

    Can Perry recover from his wobbly start? Maybe. But he’ll have to. I can speak for myself: I kicked those tires and didn’t care much for how they felt.

    My dominant thought/feeling right now about the Republican race is just disappointment that better candidates didn’t throw their hats in the ring. I really liked Daniels, myself. But there are some others out there that I think would be welcomed additions to this field.

  • nepanyrush

    Shows Cain ahead of Obama, 43% to 41%.

    Cain is likeable and people are beginning to realize that he is accompllished. I would take his 9 – 9 – 9, since I don’t mind paying a consumption tax as long as it does not include necessities such as food. Quite frankly, I am tired of so many people not paying any federal taxes and thus just being the recipient of redistribution — thus they just want to keep raising taxes on the working class to move money to them. Let them be economically invested in this country. Then they will also want to have a leaner government that doesn’t raise their taxes.

    What the polls show, in my view:

    (1) The more that people know about Cain, the more they like him.
    (2) The more that people know about Perry, the less they view him favorable. (Add me to that. I have become completedly disillusioned with Perry. I see no way he will not be completely demolished in a debate with Obama.)
    (3). Romney stays the same from poll to poll. He doesn’t excite any passion, but everyone realizes that he is very smart and has a good reputation in terms of the economy. He is probably most people’s second choice.
    (4). Debates seem to matter, as Gingrich continues to go up in the polls as he does very well in the debates.

  • gnorc

    shouldn’t pay more in taxes? (Negative Taxation = getting more money from the tax code than they pay in)

    Here is a bit of simple Math. First, the assumptions: Someone only pays Federal Income and FICA taxes (the addition of other taxes makes the Math more complicated but also reduces the tax burden under 9-9-9) and that person spends 100% of their after-tax income on taxable consumption.

    100% income – 9% Tax = 91%
    91% take home pay – 9% sales tax = 82.81% or 17.19% tax burden
    17.19% tax burden under 9-9-9 – 6.2% SSI tax – 1.45% Medicare tax = 9.54%

    So, at the worst 9-9-9 can be, you have to pay less than 9.54% in Federal Income Tax now to pay more direct taxes under 9-9-9. However, you WILL pay less hidden taxes (taxes businesses pay that are simply added into the price of goods and services), 9% hidden tax, rather than a ~22% hidden tax.

  • earlgrey

    people claim Obama is, he is still doing pretty well in these polling matchups?

  • explodinghead

    I agree with you on the empowerment zones.
    I have heard the lefties crucifying him all weekend on taxing the poor on their food, and their clothing. I believe that it is fair to tax everyone, and don’t have a problem with the bottom 47% paying their fair share. (I love that part).
    However, when push comes to shove the 47% will vote against Cain because of this tax. Also, enough seniors might get freaked out by this wtihout having studied the 9-9-9 plan in depth and also vote against him.
    9-9-9 is a very bold plan, but there are too many ways for the Left to use this as a tool to get Obama re-elected in the general.
    Cain needs a back-up plan, and I don’t think he can have a fallback position on this. It is his signature plan.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It won’t hurt at all in the way you think, because early primaries are prohibited from being winner take all.

  • adamd

    I like Daniels too – but I was worried that he was a bit “Pawlenty”-ish and would have a tough time catching fire.

    One thing I like about Perry, when the ad wars begin he would destroy Obama. Texas created jobs, America lost jobs; Texas saw their debt rating improve a notch, under Obama for the first time ever America is not rated AAA; Obama is attempting to socialize our healthcare system, Perry enacted real tort reform in Texas to help doctors.

    Bottom line – I will be supporting whoever the Republican nominee is – I just hope it is Perry.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    ..

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It’s waaay too soon to learn much from them.

  • APA Guy

    Sheesh…55% of the American public favors a flat tax according to a recent Ras poll. Why are the candidates so afraid to get on board with it?

    It’s fair…would generate consistent, non business-threatening revenue…and the wealthy would STILL pay more (dollars) than the low and middle income classes. You could set your watch by it…which businesses will love and consumers will appreciate come tax time.

    Adding a new tax? No thank you. I’ll reform the current tax code before I give congress a new toy to play with.

  • red_oakster

    Conservatives can stop Romney if they play it well. If Romney loses in Iowa, loses or wins unimpressively in New Hampshire, and loses in South and Carolina and Florida, the “inevitable” candidate will be finished.

    That doesn’t mean that Cain will win. Rather, it will become clear that no candidate is going to win a majority of the delegates during the primary season. That will send the decision to the GOP convention, the first time since 1968 (ironic given George Romney’s flameout that year). Because a large proportion of those delegates will be movement conservatives, we’ll have a chance to nominate a strong candidate.

    But the first step is defeating Romney enough times that the party establishment is forced to abandon him.

  • jimmyg

    I think this works to Romney’s advantage, and Perry’s disadvantage. I cannot remember the last time I heard a positive Perry story. He gives a policy speech about energy, jobs and the economy, and it is basically ignored. Likely it was three days too late, and did not contain anything that the other candidates either have said, or would agree with.

    Romney, at this time, is content to sit back, let Cain have the limelight, and show up at debates and look and sound presidential.

  • adamd

    Obama is polling low to mid 40% tops. Remember Obama has his base secured, the black vote is still going to support him over 90%. While Bush was polling in the 30% range, a lot of the weakness came from Conservatives who did not like him, but would have voted for him regardless. The fact that Obama is only getting low to mid 40% versus relatively unknown Republican candidates is good news for the Republicans. Once the Republican candidate is chosen the base will solidify. Usually the undecided break towards the challenger, especially when the economy is bad.

    Remember, even Reagan was trailing Carter nearly 2 to 1 at one point.

  • red_oakster

    Conservatives could stop Romney by defeating him in early contests. If that happens, it’s at least a possibility that no one will assemble a majority of delegates during the convention.

  • red_oakster

    nt

  • gator_hoo

    Because what we really need is government subsidizing bad local and state government

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Perry’s favs have fallen back to Earth.

    So will Cain’s.

  • explodinghead

    1. What percentage of people who vote in the general election will have seen the GOP primary debates?
    2. The MSM is going to slam the 9% sales tax on the poor over and over and over.
    3. The 47% don’t want to pay ANY tax, they will vote against Cain.
    4. Perry sucked in the 3 debates so far, but his energy plan gives JOBS.
    5. Romney will be slammed as a WALL ST guy, why do you think Obama is supporting the OWS crowd.
    6. Romneycare will negate Obamacare, off-setting penalties. we cannot attack Obama on healthcare.
    7. Perry has not been seen by the non-Republican base, he can improve his debate performance. He has the jobs record to run on.
    8. Cain has been slammed on his lack of foreign policy knowledge by the MSM already.
    9. Who does Obama want to run against? Romney.
    10. Who does the republican establishment want us to run? Romney.

    If Cain is our nominee I will definitely vote for him, but I think Perry could be a stronger general election candidate based on his jobs record, his energy plan, which creates jobs and the ability to improve in the debates over the next few months. The worst is already out there on Perry, the attack on Cain has just begun.

    The prize should be winning the White House, Senate and House by putting up the most electable candidate in the general election. Before the Romney fans scream, yeah, Romney, I have already listed just 2 of the reasons that the White House wants to run against Romney.
    There are a lot of people who hate Wall St without thinking who it is that has caused their current financial problems. We cannot expect to overcome the propaganda spit out by the left over the next 12 months regarding theevil men on Wall St.
    Romney is Bain Capital (Wall St), fair or unfair it is an albatross around his neck.
    Debates aren’t everything, there is time before the general to get the Conservative message honed. I like Perrys energy plan and am looking forward to the rolling out of the next parts of his economic plan. I think JOBS could be a winning issue in the general, remember Clinton and “it’s the economy stupid”, we should use “jobs,jobs,jobs” as our focal point.
    Whoever our nominee is, it needs to be all about jobs, that is what will get Joe-Schmoe to vote GOP.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    The Ras poll (and the CNN poll I’m posting on ASAP at UV and in RedHot) are post-debate.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    These won’t decide the general but they’re very important to the primary.

  • garythompson

    I’ve looked at the Math here and here. The only drawback I see is the unfair burden on the lower income range when figuring their effective tax rate. I think adjustments need to be made there but the rest seems like a great idea – It’s revenue neutral even with a static analysis, would go further to balance budget once the economic benefits kick in and moves us to a fairer form of taxation (consumption vs. income). Of course beudget cutting would still need to be done but that is true no matter what tax policy you endorse.

    Raise your hand if you are in favor of growing the IRS. Raise your hand if you are in favor of shrinking the IRS. I choose the latter.

  • acat

    First, 1/3 of the country are left-leaning partisans, 1/3 are right-leaning, so ..for a POTUS to go below 33% indicates the base has fallen out.

    Second, the media skews the polls Dem wherever possible, so that 33% above is about 20% for GOPers (i.e. Bush) and about 46% for Dems (i.e. Obama) …

    And my take-away from this is that Obama’s base are very weak.

    I’m sure Neil will be by to correct my math (and perhaps call me a libertine) shortly.

    Mew

  • paulnashtn

    Actually, IF your working, dropping your payroll taxes to a flat 9% MORE that covers the 9% that you would pay on purchased items.
    The only problem that have is how easy will it be to make it 12-12-12 or15-15-15

  • explodinghead

    My point is that Perry’s debate peformance could improve by the general, as some have stated that because Perry couldn’t beat Obama in the debate in the general, they wouldn’t consider voting for him in the primary.

  • explodinghead

    nt

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    A prediction made by the same people that said Cain would never be more than a fringe candidate. Given how that prediction worked out, why should we put any faith in this one?

    This article is all great news for Cain, until the last line. A last line obviously tagged on in a desperate attempt to undo all the good news for Cain that went before it.

    Right now Cain is kicking everyone else’s rear ends, and he’s doing it in a way that throws conventional wisdom out the window.

    Given that none of the conventional wisdom about Herman Cain so far has been correct, I can’t see how the conventional wisdon that Herman Cain will fade should be given any more creedence than wishful thinking.

    Think of what the conventional political wisdom was in the fall of 2008. Would anyone have predicted the political events that transpired between then and today? Onlyif they wanted to get laughed out of town. Yet, those events did happen.

    Something different is going on this election; Herman Cain is right in the middle of it; and it has nothing to do with conventional wisdom.

  • Aaron Gardner

    *sigh*

  • pdawk

    Check out the latest state polls by Insider Advantage. Perry is at 6% in Iowa, 2% in New Hampshire, 12% in South Carolina, and 3% in Florida. Perry’s narrative has already been set, and there isn’t a whole lot he can do to fix it.

    I am not sure whether Cain has staying power, but Perry is now seen as almost un-electable due to his debate performances and it is showing up in the polling.

  • Jim Tomasik

    I’ll let you have that but that was not my point.

    Look around this morning. Drudge, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC…. not a peep about his jobs/energy plan.

    But Cain, on the other hand, is everywhere. Even when the news covers Perry they spend plenty of time talking about Cain.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m giving Cain the same treatment I gave Perry. When he rose, I was all over his favorables, watching for when they broke.

    You Candi-bots crack me up. You’re like the comic relief between the adults in the conversation.

  • explodinghead

    That may well be true, pdhawk, but for now I think Conservatives need to have a first choice, as second choice and an open mind, in case 1 or 2 end up not being viable.

  • gracie

    I get it that there are hidden taxes. But who says the dollar amount charged on goods will be lowered: that companies will not just increase their profits instead of passing on the savings to consumers?

    Competition? Still, I would hate to create another revenue stream, another tax on consumers with all of these nebulous hopes that we will be paying less and that it will balance out with the new tax!

  • APA Guy

    I’m not sure you draw others to your viewpoint by pointing out that Herman Cain can defy the odds because Obama was able to pull the wool over a gullible public’s eyes.

    Sometimes concentional wisdom is followed for a reason. For instance, the money issue. Obama will raise HUGE amounts of money. That, combined with the advantage of the presidency will make him difficult to beat (regardless of whether his JAR is in the 30s or 40s) unless the candidate running against him can bring equal dollars to the party. Rick Perry has that ability, Cain not so much.

    I understand your enthusiasm…unconventional candidates are always appealing…especially when they have messages that resonate (tax reform). However, keep in mind all the messaging in the world means SQUAT if no one hears it. We have to consider the overall big picture here…and the reality is, we need the best conservative WHO CAN GET ELECTED. Just not sure that is Herman Cain based on what I have seen thus far.

  • explodinghead

    If Michelle Bachmann, and Santorum drop out would their supporters go to Newt? Romney? Cain? Perry? Would it be signifcant?
    I tend to think they might go to Cain, but again if Cain gets thumped on 9-9-9 they may go to Gingrich or maybe a small number to Perry. Would it be enough to move Gingrich into the top tier?
    he seems to be creeping up.

    Are there any Bachmann or Santorum supporters out there that don’t think they are running or for VP or a cabinet spot?

  • Finrod

    Cain has already raised as much money so far in October than he did throughout the entire 3rd quarter. I’m hearing that he’s pulling in $100K/day currently. He’s not going to beat Romney in fundraising but if he can keep these kinds of numbers up, he’ll have enough to mostly negate Romney’s advantage, since it’s not just having money, it’s what you do with it.

    As far as debate performances go, that’s why we have debates. Debating sure hasn’t been Perry’s friend so far.

  • Finrod

    .

  • Change Jar Conservative

    I always like to figure the interval on the polls (add / subtract MOE from number).

    Most of the time, you can find a narrow range for each candidate.

    Cain doesn’t work out. His three intervals are:

    14.2 to 23.8
    21.65 to 32.35
    25.5 to 34.5

    And afterwards:

    27.4 to 30.6

    The last two pre-debate polls would give a nice 25.5 to 32.35 range, but that is outside of the range of the first one. My unscientific guess would be that one of the polls was taken earlier or later as far as general Cain press coverage.

  • nick2253

    Obviously, you might not see it right away, but competition will eventually even the market.

    Look at the FAA tax fiasco earlier this year. Some airlines chose to pass those savings on to the consumer. Others decided to raise fares and capture that additional revenue. In time, those airlines that decided to raise fares would likely lose business to those that didn’t. In the short run, there wasn’t really that much competition difference, because people often buy flights based on Frequent Flyer programs. But if one airline, long-term, had less value because they raised fares, then you’d see people leaving that airline and eventually forcing it to kowtow to the market.

    For 999, the short-term will mean higher prices. And there’s really not much around that. And the same thing would happen for any tax change. We could cut the corporate tax rate to zero, and you wouldn’t see prices move much in the short term. But over the long term, the market always balances supply and demand.

  • gekster

    The polls in Nov. 2007

    Clinton 32%
    Giuliani 22%
    Obama 19%
    Edwards 13%
    McCain 11%
    Thompson 9%
    Romney 7%

    from:
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/102634/Clinton-Eclipses-Giuliani-National-Election-Indicators.aspx

    At this point in time, anything can happen.

  • clintonformccain

    Actually, IF your working, dropping your payroll taxes to a flat 9% MORE that covers the 9% that you would pay on purchased items.

    Except that employers would no be paying the 9% “corporate tax” on all wages and benefits. They pay 9% on your wages, then you turn around and pay 9% on your wages. That’s an 18% flat rate personal income tax.

  • politicalgal1

    There is a lot to like about Herman Cain. He has a wonderful life story and is a dynamic, motivational speaker. Yes, he sure can dish out the red meat to hungry conservatives. However, now the rubber meets the road, and those conservatives are going to want more than the red meat–they are going to want the entire meal, including dessert.

    One of Cain’s weaknesses is his thinking he can make inflammatory comments and then shrug them off as “It was a joke”. Another weakness is his rushing to judgment on opinions before getting all the facts (too numerous to mention here).

    He uses the loaf of bread analogy (straight from the Fair Tax book) in showing how prices will decrease under 9-9-9. He couldn’t be more wrong! The 9% income tax on labor appears at all levels of the supply chain and will be embedded. A 9% tax is a higher tax than the 7.65% which employers now pay in payroll tax.

    Excise taxes remain in place. Therefore, senior citizens living on fixed incomes will be paying 9% in addition to the 18.4 cents per gallon federal gas taxes, and a new 9% tax on food, clothing, and services. Why is no one talking about the increase to the cost of health care that will result from 9-9-9? Health care services will be taxed, insurance policies purchased on auto, life, health, etc., will be taxed. Herman’s 9-9-9 will not withstand scrutiny.

    I love Herman. I think he and Sarah would make a wonderful team, touring the country and promoting freedom, liberty, and America’s exceptionalism.

  • clintonformccain

    a) Cain says he’s never heard of “neo-con” foreign policy philosophy

    b) Cain says that he will balance the federal budget in his first year.

    ———–

    Both show a decided lack of credibility/gravitas.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    Cain 47%
    Romney 21%
    Perry 7%
    Bachmann 1%

    This after a withering week of critisicm of Cain and his 999 plan by the media. Yep, it seems like the more the spotlight is focused on Cain, the more he fades. /sacasm

    I still stand by my previous point. Something different is going on this election cycle. Cain has proposed a radical idea, the kind that in past elections would have guranteed defeat. Yet the more people talk about it, the more voters he seems to pick up.

    Talk conventional wisdom all you want, this cycle has thrown it out the window.

  • waxmanlaw

    If you look at the current calendar, assuming that Nevada and NH work out their differences, the only thing that has happened is that February has moved into January. That leaves some insignificant caucuses in February and the Michigan/Arizona primaries at the end of the month.

    The Perry implosion caused the month switch because without a big time candidate Romney could sweep IA, NH, NV, FL, and run well in SC. So the whole month of February the GOP DC establishment could run the contest is over meme and foreclose on the race before the big southern super Tuesday on March 6th and 13th. They didn’t count on the grassroots not buying the Romney they were selling and fueled the Cain boom. It would be jaw dropping if the Caim boomlet faded and the grassroots switched back to Perry.

    BTW: SC is exempt from the winner take all rule. FL is not, however FL still has in place winner take all by CD and winner take all statewide for the bonus/at-large delegates.

  • renl57

    Bill Gates is worth thousands of times more than me. But he doesn’t eat thousands of times more food than I do.

    Cain realizes this, and he has now told the media that he will modify the 9-9-9 plan to exempt the first X dollars of purchases of necessities like food from the sales tax. IOW, that will make the sales tax less regressive–and far less regressive than the sales taxes in many states.

  • renl57

    An energy plan is not an economic plan by itself.

    And what Perry proposed wasn’t different from the energy section of Romney’s economic plan. (I mean seriously, except for Huntsman, which other Republican candidates are against more American oil and American coal? It’s not like Perry is the only Republican candidate who came up with that.)

    But unlike Perry’s plan, energy is just one section of Romney’s plan; there’s a lot more to it.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    “You Candi-bots crack me up.”

    Candi-bots? The common term is Cainiac or Cainbot. If you’re trying to make a play on the word candy, wouldn’t Caindy-bot make more sense.

    Sorry, just not getting how you arrive at Candi-bot.

  • renl57

    We can argue about how important the GOP debates are.

    But there’s no argument about how important the debate with Obama will be. (Historians consider the 1960 and 1980 Presidential debates particularly crucial.)

    Our candidate must be able to at least hold his own against Obama in a one-on-one debate.

  • gekster

    The polls in Nov. 2007

    Clinton 32%
    Giuliani 22%
    Obama 19%
    Edwards 13%
    McCain 11%
    Thompson 9%
    Romney 7%

    from:
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/102634/Clinton-Eclipses-Giuliani-National-Election-Indicators.aspx

    At this point in time, anything can happen.

  • renl57

    There’s no mystery here.

    We don’t vote for a plan.
    We vote for a President.

    Cain connects with an audience the way no other Republican candidate this year has been able to.

    With Cain, you get a real feeling that he’s speaking from his heart. With Romney, you get a real feeling that he’s speaking from his iPad.

  • acat
  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    Really bad abbreviation. Too obscure. Not obvious enough. But who knows, maybe it will catch on with time.

  • red_oakster

    The establishment assumed moving the key races forward would allow Romney to wrap everything up early and Romney still may pull it off. But the successive boomlets for Perry and now Cain raise a different possibility: that Romney will do poorly in the early contests. By the end of January, Romney will look like a loser-the Ed Muskie of 2012. I can see Romney losing Iowa, winning weakly in New Hampshire and then flaming out in both South Carolina and Florida.

    At that stage, establishment types will have to choose between continued support for a badly weakened Romney and looking for an alternative. That wouldn’t be a bad scenario for conservatives, since a brokered convention also would be a place where a draft of Ryan, Rubio, Jindal, etc. could happen.

    Romney’s effort to game the system ironically may have the unintended effect of turning his tricky machinations to rig the calendar into a self-ambush.

  • politicalgal1

    Cain’s 9-9-9 is not a solution. However, if one will take the blinders off and look at the energy and jobs plan rolled out last week by Perry, that is a solution. Energy is not just about fuel for the car and creating energy. Too many manufacturing plants have closed or gone overseas because of the cost of petroleum based ingredients. Very strategic that Perry rolled out his plan near a closed petrochemical plant in Pittsburgh.

    Actually, Perry’s plan was a solution to: become energy independent, create jobs, EPA regulatory reform, neuter Interior’s stranglehold, and deficit reduction (more taxpayers = more revenue).

    Anxiously awaiting the rollout of his Tax Reform policies as well as his entitlement reform policies. Not concerned that since he entered the race so late he is not rushing something out like 9-9-9.

  • gracie

    but my point is there is too much risk that companies will pocket the profits or that it will take years to even out. Or that the federal tax component will be raised.

    Another thing: If our candidate was for getting rid of ethanol subsidies I do think the price of corn products would come down somewhat. But…I do not think the size of cereal boxes would go back up nor the size of torillia chips. They will think the public has forgotten they used to be so large. Ca-ching!

    As we know,, seniors will not experience payroll deductions but will lose mortgage deduction. There will be a ton of Seniors with baby boomers like myself retiring.

    While I love the idea of controlling my tax with my own choice, love the idea of the 47% paying their fair share, I could never vote for someone who would add a tax without abolishing the income tax. Take away 999, Cain is just a nice guy who doesn’t know very much about foreign policy.
    Re: clintonformccain…he’s never heard of neo-cons? Yikes!

  • politicalgal1

    That’s the problem. As more and more people realize the services that will be taxed, they will really revolt against this. The problem with this plan is that you keep adding exemptions for additional items, and then you are back to a lousy tax plan again.

  • APA Guy

    That 9% national sales tax wouldn’t stay 9% for more than a few years and you know it. It would also become more progressive as time proceeds and Dems find their way back into congress down the road. By the time that happens, it would be somewhere in the 18-20% neighborhood…mark my words.

    New taxes are not the answer. Flat tax is the best, most viable solution…and it enjoys majority public support according to a recent Rasmussen poll.

  • politicalgal1

    Granted, Perry hasn’t won any emmy’s for his on-stage debate performances. However, who is really watching the debates except us political junkies and the political pundits? I am looking for substance, and Newt is the strongest there.

    Have you ever attended a Perry town hall? My Lord, how he can connect with a crowd.

    I suspect Perry’s ground game is being underestimated also.

  • redmymind

    I get suspicious when there’s mention of “hidden” taxes. What are they, precisely? Plus, there are just too many unqualified assumptions up in the air to make the 9-9-9 plan sound even halfway plausible. It’s sort of like the miles per gallon estimate touted on the factory window sticker of a new car. It assumes ideal road conditions and the driver driving at a constant 55 mph. Like, that’s really going to happen!

    I confess that taxes are not my strong area, but just good ole common sense puts me off things that need a lot of explanations. It’s like meat that needs to be heavily seasoned to get rid of its gamey taste, or a book that needs a commentary or a secondary source longer than the book itself to make it “make sense.” Call me whatever you want, folks, but I just don’t enter into deals I don’t understand. At this point in time, 9-9-9 just doesn’t sound as simple as 1-2-3, and that was the whole point of the catchy 9-9-9 terminology, wasn’t it?

  • fightnright

    I agree with Neil and others that Obama’s numbers are not indicative of his secure position considering an incumbent with a significant immovable base (one not likely to flip for any reason, even economic conditions).

    What concerns me most while following the matchups is the effectiveness of the Dems’ messaging, bolstered by their media support machine. Their narrative, of obstructionist Republicans blocking jobs bills, declining to ‘support’ the working and middle class; ( such as teacher and other union/government jobs), of trying to lower benefits on longstanding programs for current seniors (implied by the AARP), the continual bleat about Republicans being ‘for’ millionaires and billionaires and refusing to consider raising their taxes plays well to an undereducated electorate with no formal understanding of economics, or how jobs and wealth are created.

    The OWS message that the downturn is being caused by corporate greed instead of Obama’s policies is another Big Lie that is working toward the Dems’ benefit in current polling. Finally, the concept of the government being a ‘magic cupboard’ that somehow creates, owns, and distributes money is being promoted by OWS, too – the line from celebs visiting the rallies was that the “treasury was being raided” and stolen by Wall Street pirates.

    "I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress or two years and just tell them we won’t hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover," she said. "I really hope that someone can agree with me on that. … You want people who don’t worry about the next election." Beverly Perdue, NC Governor

    If you don’t believe that Democrats will do what they say, then don’t
    vote. But be warned: your 2016 vote may come too late. Vote Republican
    in 2012!

  • acat

    Palinista, Paulistine, (Paultard), Fred!head, Huckabot, Rombot, Cainiac, etc. etc.

    There’s also the obvious “Candi/Candy” riff. “Sweet on {candidate}? You might be a Candi-Bot”.

    Mew

  • uncmike

    It seems that many view the on-going competition among Republican candidates for the right to face Obama in November 2012–which happens to be some 13 months away–as a “race,” with either Romney or Cain as the likely winner. In fact, the overall process to choose the Republican nominee is not a race at all, it is a triathlon, and there are other events still to play out.

    Thus far, the candidates have competed in the first event–debates (as they are generously called by those who stage them)–with the winners determined by sundry polls of, not “likely voters,” but “registered voters.” Because there is little evidence on which to base the likely number of actual voters who will show up on election day, voter intensity, turnout models in terms of percentages of D-R-I, etc., predictions predicated on these polls have a large degree of uncertainty in terms of telling us who the actual winner will be. Put another way, the usual plus/minus margins associated with these polls mean nothing in the longer term. In any case, this event is still on-going, but others events are also getting underway.

    The second event in the primary triathlon consists of grass-roots politicking–an old fashioned celebration that features BBQ, friend chicken, baby-kissing, and the like. This is what is known in the trade as retail politics. Such events give candidates the opportunity to meet potential voters one-on-one and increase their likability quotients in the process. The size and frequency of these gatherings are important factors in terms of their overall payoff. The larger the crowds and the more often these events are held, the greater the candidate’s opportunity for positive exposure. This is where the candidate makes use of his stump speech, sounding the themes he wants to deliver to the crowd in measured sound bites that can be picked up, remembered, and repeated to others. Staging these events around the country, especially in early key states, takes serious planning, organization, and money–hey, even chicken is not cheap these days. Consequently, this event favors candidates with these resources. They are often undervalued in the overall election process by a media hungry for things like debate “gaffes” or poll results which they can quickly turn into their next newspaper byline, or a narrative for their next guest appearance on Morning Joe, or Meet the Press.

    The third event in the triathlon takes place largely after the actual nomination process gets underway in the first state. This is what you might call direct exposure and support of the candidate via TV and radio commercials, newspaper and other forms of print advertising and, importantly, by the utilization of phone banks, on-the-ground volunteers who can knock on doors and help get out the vote, and by other electronic means such as the web, Facebook, Tweets, and so on. After the election events in the first couple of small states–Iowa and New Hampshire–the pace accelerates as the candidates move on to larger, more diverse, and harder to cover states. As with the second event, this leg of the triathlon favors those with resources such as money and organization (both campaign and grass-roots). You can’t use up all your gunpowder in the first volley.

    This last event also prominently features a ramping up of “attack adds” where the goal is to define opponents, raising their negatives, and casting doubt on their announced plans, economic or otherwise. To be effective in the large, delegate-rich states, this means candidates will need significant financial resources for mass buys of paid media exposure.

    For these and other reasons, those who believe that 13 months out the race for the Republican nomination is nearly over are not credible. Take Romney, who seems to be the current leader in these polls of registered voters. He has largely prevailed in the first event because of his name exposure, looks (yes, women like him), smooth ability to deflect questions during events, and the fact that he has the Republican establishment with him.

    Cain has done well also in his first event–against all odds some would argue. He’s fresh in the sense Biden thought Obama was fresh and clean. But, as his poll numbers rise, so too will the level of scrutiny accorded him. His 9-9-9 plan has attracted attention, both positive and negative. Expect the negative attention to grow as he is perceived by the Republican establishment as a threat to Romeny. Just today, NRO ran an editorial on its website called “Bold, Brash, and Wrong,” in which the editors pronounce Cain’s 9-9-9 plan as “unworth of support.” They continued by noting that, while Cain’s plan is a bold vision for tax reform, its merits “don’t go far beyond its superficial simplicity.” They also argue that it will hurt a lot of people, especiallly retirees and those at lower income levels–thisT is a theme I’m sure the Obama people will exploit heavily should Cain become the nominee. Finally, the NRO editors conclude that “Cain?s flawed effort is all the more problematic, given further revelations this weekend that he understands very little about foreign policy.” Expect these attacks to increase in the day ahead as attention moves from Perry to Cain.

    Romney too has his problems since he is the favorite of those not part of the Anybody-But-Romney (ABR) crowd. More simply, his support among registered voters (not likely Republican voters) seems stalled at about 25%. What will happen to Romney’s support when the polls begin to focus on likely Republican voters, and what will be their intensiy in the general election should Romney be the nominee? What will happen when his remaining opponents take to the air waves to define him, explain his role in Obamacare, his flip-flopping on abortion, and on and on?

    In sum, it ain’t over til it’s over. And it ain’t over by a damn site yet.

  • uncmike

    I should have closed with “it ain’t over by a damn sight yet.”

  • onemovoter

    Pointing out a doable plan as compared to a plan that would take along time to get through a friendly congress.

    I remember a poll of business owners by a group that represents them, in what their problems currently are as to business environment. The first on the list is too little demand for their products, ect which we all know happens during a down turn. That polled at about 33%.

    Tied at second were taxes or threat of tax increases, and over regulation at about 20% each.

    Perry’s energy plan is two fold. It will open the flood gates to energy production which has a lot of pent up demand world wide, not just here in the US. It’s no mystery that energy production has led North Dakota to a 3.5% unemployment rate.

    With both higher energy production which would lead to lower energy prices, which then trickles down to lower costs for other goods such as food, and more employment of well paid jobs of a million or more, you basically kill two birds with one stone. Having more people employed and lower costs will provide the “stimulus” needed to rev up the economy. I think more than the 1.2 million jobs will result, as support services as well as entertainment/food tend to follow these jobs.

    The other end of Perry’s plan is regulation reform and repeal which is something the President has control over. Reagan made it a priority to not only stop regulation proliferation, but to actually roll back much of it. Perry seems to be taking that banner up again.

    I will say that I still like Cain’s tax plan to simplify the tax code, however I’d rather go full on to the Fair Tax in conjunction with a BBA. That way we’d have only 1 simple tax that is visible every day. The Balanced Budget Amendment would have to be written so as to make sure that any future congress couldn’t turn it into a “VAT” rather than a retail sales tax as it’s proposed.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

  • Scope

    None of them. I am assuming that the pollsters are doing random polling, and that is a kind observation. You cannot have so many pollsters, and it seems this year pollsters are coming out of the woodwork, that all have such wide fluctuations in their numbers. Is there an effort to dilute the numbers so widely, with so many polls, in order to split the conservative votes, in order to insure the consensus candidate becomes the inevitable candidate? I don’t think I am alone with questioning the poll results with many polls including 342 voters out of a country that exceeds 300 million.

    I go back to the pollster, hired by Tom Perriello back in 2010. That poll had Perriello winning by a wide margin against any Republican he would face. He lost in a landslide, despite the poll that had him winning in a landslide.

    This year, polls have become a joke. Any candidate can hire any firm to poll to get the results they want.

  • txpat

    Bernie Goldberg said on O’Reilly tonight that if the purist candidate gets the Republican nomination then we will get 4 more years of BO.
    Only Mitty can save us.
    Please excuse me I think I am going to be sick now.
    We need to pool together to get the best conservative elected.
    Santorum and Bachmann folks need to give up the ghost and support most viable conservative.

  • Scope

    Anyone now appearing on Fox is required to support Romney, or they will be unemployed. That’s a fact. Not any network can have every host and every guest supporting the same candidate without many more than a few raised eyebrows. There is no possible way that everyone walks in the same steps about anything. Ailes has demanded that his network be all Romney, all day.

  • circlegranch

    A good friend that once stood shoulder to shoulder with me decrying big government, federal intrusion, failed policies, etc., at tea parties is now gleeful about supporting Mitt. When asked which policy position he espouses that won her over, she can’t say. She says 1/3 of voters are moderates and we have to cater to them or lose. I reminded her that McCain catered to that group too and look where that got us. The drumbeat is growing…ONLY Romney can beat Obama. Cain is a faux candidat.e He’s in Romney’s camp and his job is to keep going till Perry is done and gone: for good. Raking in that $17 mil will drag this out longer than Mitt had hoped; keep Herman on the case until further notice.

    Fox never mentions Perry’s name anymore and apparently an equal war chest to Romney is not substantial news. It’s hard to believe that a mere 2 years ago, the tea party rallied the country to return to Constitutional adherence, fiscal responsibility and reclaimng our values and putting moderate Republicans on notice that their jobs were in jeopardy. Their voices certainly appear to be silent now. If we’re to believe O’Reilly, both grassroots conservatives and Evangelicals are all flocking to the GOP’s version of The Chosen One; the one that is the least conservative in the entire field. Everybody keeps saying this election is going to be about jobs yet the one guy in this race–on both sides of the aisle– that actually has proven success in jobs during this recession is being completely ignored. The fix is clearly in. It certainly seems alot of hard work and effort by alot of folks is being discounted and kicked to the curb, right along with the grassroots candidate that if given a fair examination, would line up the closest with the tea party movement AND have the money and organization to go the distance.

  • txpat

    Is this a gut feeling or a fact?
    My gut tells me they are backing Romney, Cain is still getting a little love too.
    I figure they will start tearing Cain down gradually and hope all conservatives will jump on the Romney train.
    I’m not a Cain supporter, but I am tired of Fox news trying to dictate how we all will vote.
    All I hope for is conservatives will vote for the best conservative that is running.
    We need to look at experience, over all record, do they have the money, and the ground game in each of the states for grass root support.

  • txpat

    Why are the Tea Party silent about trying to force us to accept a Rino as our guy?
    Where is the fight?
    Is the Tea Party playing dead?
    Don’t let the media talking points pick our candidate and give us another polyester politician that they think is the answer.
    Rino’s are not the answer to fix this country.

  • Jim Tomasik

    We help when asked.

    http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-cain-bartlett,0,6371777.story

  • westcoastpatriette

    We don’t need a lot of fluff and fanfare. We are quietly working to overthrow the Marxists and socialists that have infiltrated every corner of our government–local, state, and federal–and we won’t stop until we’re done.

  • circlegranch

    It seems like yesterday–2010–when we supported and elected a boatload of staunch conservative grassroots candidates.

  • redmymind

    You got that sense too? . . . That’s why I call’em “Fox Noise.” They’re definitely look’in out for Romney and Cain. If they have something on Governor Perry, it’s usually something negative or questionable, at best. It’s not so much that Fox Noise cares for Cain and Romney as individuals. I think they’re in the tank for the GOP establishment. If the establishment banks on Perry, they’ll go with Perry again. I’ve lost respect for Fox Noise . . . CONSIDERABLE respect. At least with the lib media, you know where they stand and the usual static you expect from them. Just my $0..20, I guess.

  • Jim Tomasik

    And last year “we” elected a bunch of Republicans and a few of them were conservative.

  • westcoastpatriette

    and just what the heck do you think they’re not doing? What the heck are you doing? You sound hysterical as if that is really gonna help.

  • redmymind

    Now that’s squaring a circle!

  • txpat

    This whole thing just makes me want to scream.
    All I hear is Romney, Romney, Romney.
    It is so aggravating that the media push for Obamalite.
    My concern is sheep, yes we have sheep in our party to.
    They have not been paying attention that closely they are good little sheep and watch Fox news and get the Romney is the only hope to beat BO.
    Those sheep that are out there need a wake up call.
    Fox was the one outlet to get fair news coverage, but no longer.
    Where will we go to get fair news coverage?

  • Jim Tomasik

    I’d be glad to set Romney up with a campaign stop just to watch no one from my group show up.

    It would be worth filming.

  • txpat

    Sorry meant the sheep. I figure the sheep watch Tv and just pick up the sound bites.
    The folks on RedState are more active and get info from several sources.

  • redmymind

    but those trying to help out Governor Multiple Choice. I happen to have a LOT of respect for the Tea Party. A case of friendly fire???

  • Jim Tomasik

    We be cool.

    Actually Tea Party Express had Romney speak at one of their events up North.

  • redmymind

    it’s just a matter of time and patience. Our guy will win! In the meantime, get yourself a noise-cancellation machine so you don’t keep hearing about Romney! Hee, hee, hee! . . . Keep the faith!

  • rightwingmom52

    is going to be on Thursday, October 28.

    The Rainy Day Patriots who “Party Like It’s 1773″ are working with Herman Cain to organize a meet and greet before he heads over to the local GOP to qualify for the ballot.

    The details are here.

  • Xasteius

    Rasmussen Reports is generally the best poll, but the only poll that matters is the one at the ballot box.

  • txpat

    Yes that will work, and to stop watching Fox.

  • davesinsanantonio

    disadvantage against Perry who will have a much better jobs record than Obummer. Also, tort reform vs. Obummer being in the lap of trial lawyers, Sending the Texas Rangers to the border vs. suing Arizona on border security. Etc. Etc.

  • BA Cyclone

    “risk that companies will pocket the profits”

    Ahem, just whose profits are they to begin with?

    “If our candidate was for getting rid of ethanol subsidies I do think the price of corn products would come down somewhat.”

    Herman Cain’s plan would theoretically end all subsidies, although this depends heavily on Congress passing such a bill. The problem is that the price of corn isn’t driven by “ethanol subsidies” in any noticeable way. Some corn goes to ethanol, but the subsidies for such only go to blenders. Ending the subsidy won’t really have any effect on ethanol production — to be frank in 2012 it is a useless subsidy and I doubt it has any market force within it — it is a pure giveaway to blenders. Ending it will have near zero effect on corn prices.

    Cain’s plan isn’t perfect, but he is also the only candidate who actually has a plan to blow up the existing tax code. No other candidate has enough stones to talk more than platitudes at that level, and I support Cain for that reason.

    I think it is frankly foolhardly to be against Cain because you judge his plan versus some mythical plan that everyone could support. Flat tax: great but Forbes tried and failed. FairTax: Cain was already there and everyone said “we’ll never repeal the 16th amendment”. So he’s responded with a plan that seeks a middle ground to still move the bar towards a better tax structure, with the immediate huge benefit of shredding the existing 70,000+ page version.

    I like that. We can refine the plan over time, but the first step is to have a plan that allows us to torpedo the leviathan that exists. Only Cain is offering one.

  • BA Cyclone

    Today’s payroll tax is already 15.3% in normal circumstances. Add that to any reasonable NET personal federal income tax, and the Cain side of 18% will be less.

    “Some people will pay more” but only those people who are today living at the expense of other taxpayers — or in other words, taxtakers.

    Sorry, I guess I’m stating the same thing a different way.

  • clefi

    … leaving for another state with lower taxation, and all the loyal did the same, how long can a Communist run state survive on only the Useful Idiot Takers?

    Not too long at all.

  • bryankdonnelly

    Mitt Romney is NOT a conservative, barely a real Republican. Newt put it succinctly recently; he is the Nelson Rockefeller of today. I?m old enough to have worked in the Barry Goldwater campaign back in 1964. That year we lost, but we finally made the GOP the conservative party and planted the seeds for Ronald Reagan in 1980. At the same time we hoped we?d crushed forever the northeastern liberal ?Republican? establishment personified by New York governor Nelson Rockefeller. But the hydra headed monster is back.

    It is Mitt Romney, the ?last hope? of the inside the beltway GOP ?leadership? establishment! Another northeastern former governor (People?s Republic of Taxachussetts,) he is exactly what the Tea Party conservatives have been fighting against. The base of today?s GOP is the SOUTH, MIDWEST, AND WEST, and the Tea Party is the core of conservative activists who decide who our nominee will be. We DO NOT want Romney!

    Why? First look at his record. He?s been on both sides of almost every major issue but seems to have his natural philosophical ?home? with the center-left. His vile ?Obamneycare? socialized medicine program in Massachusetts is the most telling example. It IS the basis for Obamacare! The same individuals who advised HIM on HIS socialist program also helped the Democrat-socialists craft Obamacare (see link below.) THAT alone disqualifies him for the GOP nomination. Yes I KNOW states have the right to do what they want. But we don?t want a governor who did such a thing to his own state as our nominee!

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/11/white-house-met-with-three-romney-advisors-to-draft-obamacare/

    As if THAT weren?t enough we also now learn that he bought in to Al Gore?s absurd anti-industry, anti-life man caused ?global warming? nonsense; still refuses to denounce it. Not surprising since HIS ?environmental? advisor was John Holdren, environmental extremist and now ?science? adviser to the Obamanistas. See link below.

    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=588168&p=1

    But even politically, Romney is the WRONG choice. The Tea Party movement sprang up spontaneously in 2009 in response to Obamacare being shoved down our throats. It is the REAL VOICE of American conservatives and can provide, as it did in 2010, the activists and ?boots on the ground? to achieve an overwhelming GOP victory in 2012. How on EARTH can Romney campaign against socialist Obama on THIS issue? He can?t. Moreover, millions of our traditionalist-religious conservative brethren could, as with loser McCain in 2008, sit out the election or at very least be most unenthusiastic.

    We CAN stop the Romney locomotive here in Florida! We need to unite behind ONE genuine conservative candidate in our January 31st primary. For all his slick performance and huge money reserves, Romney can be beaten here and in South Carolina. Time to unite behind ONE genuine conservative leader who not only can beat Romney, but defeat Obama and bring in CONSERVATIVE Republican congress. That man is Herman Cain.

  • wbf

    I came across this article today. I really don’t remember how.
    http://thenewamerican.com/opinion/jack-kerwick/9307-the-tea-party-movement-republicans-and-ron-paul

    I am not a Ron Paul supporter but everyone is entitled their opinion.
    It is worth reading.

  • bryankdonnelly

    Cain?s ?999? plan will actually CUT consumer costs substantially. Businesses don?t PAY taxes, they only COLLECT ?em. You?ll be BETTER OFF at the grocery store with Cain?s plan.

    Don’t forget that we NOW levy a corporate income tax that varies from 15% as far up as 35%, mostly on the higher side. And the Obamanistas and Democrat-socialists in congress are continually pushing to raise it higher. Then don?t forget the employer ?contribution? to the utterly unsustainable Social Security system. Business currently get stuck with all these expenses. And I call them ?expenses? as opposed to taxes because BUSINESSES DON?T PAY TAXES CONSUMERS DO.

    Taxes to companies are merely another cost of doing business, an EXPENSE item. Think they ?eat? ?em? No way. These levies are passed DIRECTLY on to every consumer via higher prices! Every loaf of bread, jug of milk, or any other consumer product (including high ticket items like homes and cars) costs approximately 25% MORE at the store due to business taxes. It?s one of the reasons slimy politicians of BOTH parties just LOVE business levies; they?re INVISIBLE to voters. Better yet the politicians can then turn around and blame ?those greedy corporations? for higher prices. Unfortunately too many of our economically illiterate populace buy their phony populist propaganda. Take a look at the fools now ?occupying? Wall Street.

    You will be MUCH BETTER OFF paying a 9% sales tax because the PRICES of EVERYTHING will be as much as 30% LOWER. Meanwhile, businesses, relieved of onerous and uncertain tax expenses, will immediately invest in productive activity, hire new workers, create new products-services, and KNOW exactly WHAT their tax burden will be so they can PLAN.

    Think those ?greedy? businesses will just keep their prices high? Impossible, competition will never allow that to happen. Moreover, every businessman-woman knows that high volume at a lower price is more profitable than the reverse. There will be a fervid competition among businesses to LOWER PRICES the fastest.

    Moreover 13 TRILLION of US firm?s overseas un-repatriated profits (kept overseas because stupidly is only one of two nations taxing foreign earnings) will start surging back into the US economy along with many more trillions of foreign money escaping THEIR countries? onerous taxes. Want a ?jobs plan?? Herman HAS IT!

  • hidlins

    Yes I’d pay less in Federal tax, BUT, the state taxes would still “live-on”. I pay 5% to Maryland AND 2.5% to Cecil County on top of the state tax. I also pay a 6% State Sales Tax. 9-9-9 would cause me monitary harm, Big Time!

    No one is talking about their state taxes.

    I really like Herman but, his National Sales Tax really scares me. For that reason alone, I’ll not support him. And Perry is in Favor of ‘in-state tuition for illegals’…when I heard that I fainted! I really thought he was the one I could get behind.

    Bachman doesn’t have it…she doesn’t always answer the questions. She just talks about whatever SHE wants to talk about at the moment. Santorum gets enraged easily, that’s not a good quality for a President. Although, He IS a conservative. Ron Paul is out in left field.

    So far the only one left for me is Newt. Yes he is arrogant and has had many problems over the years, but, he speaks ‘to the point’ without all the verbal diarrhea in between. He needs to be either IN or Within the Whitehouse in 2012.

    Just my two cents folks!

  • Jim Tomasik

    I’d move asap to a more tax friendly state.

  • bgintn

    Find a local TEA Party,
    Work within it to fix State Taxes, as well as Local Taxes.

  • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

    but some use mathematical and scientific methods to attempt to quantify boolean logic from human response… and some do with with an incredible amount of accuracy more than others…

    And by “others” I of course agree with you Zogby may as well be a headcount of pre-determined likely responses.

    On another note… and I hope not to threadjack…

    But I am really digging the new (Diary) link, as well as the color coded “You’re talking to a Mod/FrontPager” designation…

    Thanks for making the UI experience so great!

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It was suggested a while back that people could stand to have warning about who can ban people, and while the feature was delayed by the upgrade to WordPress 3, it’s finally done.

    And when I say scientific polling, I’m just using the common shorthand for polling based on statistical principles of random sampling. Should really be called mathematical polling.

    Zogby interactive polls use online panels, not random samples of the electorate.

  • kauaicat

    on your wages. Wages are part of operating costs, and would be deducted from corporate income under Cain’s plan.