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Perry had better get Fed Up, fast. This is Herman Cain time.

By: Neil Stevens (Diary)  |  October 27th, 2011 at 07:00 AM  | 

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Perry Fed Up

Rick Perry had better get fed up fast with his polling situation. As I warned on Tuesday, he’s teetering at the brink of irrelevance.

This is Herman Cain’s moment. The new Fox News poll only confirms the CBS poll.

The facts: 328 GOP primary voters, by Anderson Robbins/Shaw & Company, polled with mobile and landline handling. MoE 5.5.

These results are largely similar to the CBS results we saw. Perry ends up in fourth place, not fifth, but only by a hair. It’s nearly a coinflip whether he’s above or below the Pauldoza line. He’s got to turn this around or he just won’t be worth talking about anymore. And the key was in precisely what I said all along it would be in: When he led, his favorability ratings were sky high. Now Fox has him at -21. Yes, minus 21. Compare with Mitt Romney’s +4 and Herman Cain‘s +4. Note that these ratings may sound low, but it’s because they’re among all Registered Voters, not just the likely Republican primary voters.

Among those Republicans, Cain leads. He’s at 24 to Romney’s 20, and Perry’s 10. Perry breaks his string of single digit showings, but by the slimmest of margins.

Herman Cain’s moment is continuing. If he can keep his favorability ratings up, then I expect him to do well in the weeks ahead. In fact, if Romney has another showing like the last debate, with Cain keeping from stumbling, then Cain just might become a clear, sole frontrunner.

Crossposted from Unlikely Voter

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  • circlegranch

    When their programming day starts with ‘Friends’ till the end of the day w/ Greta, its All Cain, All the Time at Fox. If Perry’s name is mentioned, somehow Cain’s name is part of the discussion and in a way to upstage Perry. Last night I’m told Cain was on Hannity (Hannity said on his radio show last week–”I’ve known him for years. I LOVE the guy!”) and Sean asked Herman why he’s doing so well in the polls. He gave a round about answer that was a typical canned response: “I connect well with voters and they like my message”,–nothing profound. Then Hannity asked if he was surprised he was attacked at the last debate about 999. Cain went on and on about how they hadn’t taken time to read his plan and how ‘even Perry called it a VAT tax’, so they are adept at inserting a negative on Perry all the while pumping Cain up. The fact is, almost all the candidates took a swing at 999 at that debate, but only one person was singled out and of course, the tone was, Perry was wrong to do so.

    Hannity took shots at Perry yesterday with sidekick Dick Morris on the radio. Rush gave a big nod to Cain yesterday for the smoking ad. These guys have huge sway and influence on Fox viewers.

    This morning, Gretchen Carlson scolded Perry for considering skippinng some debates, all the while mentioning how much that would help Romney and Gingrich.

    There’s a a clear disdain for Perry at Fox especially amongst all their top hosts. It’s across the board and filters down to some of lower profile like Bill Hemmer. They have a real axe to grind with him and none of them will come out say what their problem is. It used to be that Fair and Balanced meant, “we report, you decide” but now, its “we report what we want you to hear so you’ll decide the way we want you to” which now provides no differential from other networks.

    The point I’ve been trying to make here at RS for days is that Fox is leading the charge against Perry and they have enormous power to drive opinion. The tea party, grass roots and conservative movements all get their news from Fox primarly. If all those audiences hear is a constant anti-Perry drumbeat their listeners eventually are going to assume there’s something wrong with him as a candidate. For all the negativity against Perry, Cain gets just as much attention but of a positive note.

    The Fox poll is not a suprise at all. It’s the desired result they have been working very hard to achieve.

    How Perry can push back against the network that attracts the majority of conservative voters, with a clear programming mandate to report negatively on him, is a rough road. God bless, Gov. Perry.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Is CBS also pro-Cain?

  • tngal

    Wednesday/ Terry Jones entered. Technically. that should be Reverend Terry Jones. The Florida pastor who burns quorans. I guess he felt the time was right for a run.

    Just when we thought the race was getting dull.

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/26/quran-burning-pastor-ready-to-set-presidential-field-ablaze/

    While Cain announced his foreign policy team yesterday, I don’t think we need to guess how Jones would handle foreign diplomatic relations.

  • jtlfromfredmd

    fast? He’s much more visible now. He’s got boots on the ground in Primary states. He does well with interviews. His economic plan has received some good reviews. What else can the guy do? And, an unfavorability rating of
    -21?? What’s that all about?

  • libdestroyer

    1. If Fox news is pimping anyone it’s Romney.
    2. Hannity has a right to question Perry’s policies just as everyone else has ripped Cain’s
    3. Rush ALSO gave a glowing review of Perry’s new tax plan. He liked the political incorrectness of Cain’s ad. So what?

    Please stop whining. There’s no crying in conservatism!

  • libdestroyer

    that’s 21 is probably RedState Perry supporters ;)

  • libdestroyer

    just kidding Perry people. :D

  • rkcurtin

    I hope these four realize they’re not going anywhere in the polls and have slim to no chance in the near primaries of a strong showing.

    We need to get them out of the debates as they are only distractions and vet the remaining candidates who are doing much better so we can get to know them better.

    I get the sad impression we will be stuck with someone who will get the nomination with only a solid 25% ‘base’ while the rest split the remainder. Then the nominee’s ‘warts’ will then be revealed over-and-over again in the press giving Obama a good shot at being re-elected.

  • libdestroyer

    If by December the polling looks bad/impossible for your candidate, will you consider voting for the top anti-Romney candidate?

    I can tell you as an obvious Cain supporter that I would vote Perry or Bachman in a heartbeat over Mitt if they were front-runners.

    Just putting it out there

  • bzip

    I think you are missing the general point. Can the media drive the conversation? I think so and I would assume others would agree. I don’t think its to um-realistic to think Fox has driven the conversation as they see fit. Consider Fox is view by most conservatives it makes sense they masses will go where the media drives them.

    This whole thing got started with the Florida straw poll. I don’t care what anyone says, Cain who that straw poll in a protest vote against Perry and Romney. From that point on Fox started driving the conversation and others media spots have followed.

  • kestrel

    which is where they’re going.

  • bzip

    I agree but it won’t happen till their money runs out. If Johnson, Santorum, Huntsman, and Bachmann dropped out you could actually have a meaningful debate with substance. I have to agree with Perry’s camp in some ways, these debates are worthless with these many people in the contest. You can’t get any substance out of the debates with only a minute for each person.

  • radicalrighty

    .

  • red_oakster

    They all get to stay in through at least Iowa and probably New Hampshire. Of all of these folks, Santorum appears to be the one who could pull a surprise in Iowa. But these “distractions” are part of the democratic process. That they are a big nuisance for someone like Perry is no one’s fault except Perry and his miserable debating performances.

  • Death_of_the_Donkey

    With Perry contemplating removing himself from future debates, can he even regain relevance. AS bad as his debate performances have been, his only shot at getting back into the race is going to be through great debate performances.

    A second question, is will Cain have any shot in the general with his 9-9-9 plan already out there (he won’t be able to walk that back in a general). For as much as I do not like the Perry tax plan (because it is going to create obscene deficits), at least it doesn’t raise anyone’s taxes.

  • bzip

    I will vote Perry but I can also tell you – I will make a vote against Cain if I have to. In other words, I am anybody but Cain/Romney.

    They way I see it the only true proven tested conservative in the race if Perry with Newt as a backup. Romeny is a know liberal, Cain is a unknown, never held office appears to be a liberal based on supporting TARP, not wanting to audit the fed, now wants a new national sales tax and in addition seems to agree with Romney on everything. Cains without experience is asking for a second term of Obama. Cain is closely link to a Romeny from what I can tell.

  • gator_hoo

    I think two things explain this. It’s not Cain, but Romney the media loves.

    1) The democrats and establishment GOP see Perry as the biggest threat to Mitt. This is one reason they were quick to boost Cain, who I think most of the media figured doesn’t have the experience, money, or organization to beat Romney. Whether in doing so, they made Cain the nominee is still up in the air, because I don’t think they quite realize how distrusted Romney is among the base.

    2) I think a number of conservative commentators who would have generally been pro-Perry and helped him with the base at large were still hoping that Sarah Palin would run when Perry entered the race, and unfortunately, coming out as strong as he did, they felt obliged to attack him in order to create an opening for Sarah. When Sarah still didn’t run (though I doubt she ever seriously entertained the idea) Perry became “that moron who kept Palin out of the race.”

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • red_oakster

    Reading the discussions here, it’s not at all clear to me how many folks believe that beating Romney is the first step when the conservatives are fragmented. And beating Romney in the early states requires coalescing around one candidate each time.

    Iowa and caucus are the most conducive to that sort of bandwagon effect and we’ll have to see if it happens.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m not VAT stupid.

  • tngal

    I got no problem switching…if, I see a serious implosion of my candidate. But I’m not seeing it. And I won’t start it by jumping ship. I am a little confused how there appears a resignation of – well, my candidate is not doing well so I guess I’m stuck with Romney. There is, and always has been, more than just two in the race.

    I mean if Romney was your second choice and your candidate wasn’t gaining traction, then yeah go with Romney. Go with Ron Paul if he was your second. Go with Newt. He’s getting a little bump in some places. But if you didn’t like Romney, Paul or Newt before, there is another candidate in the top tier.

  • JSobieski

    When everyone was bitching about FNC’s news coverage of the Thompson campaign.

    If in this era of infinite media options, a candidate with the exposure of a Governor Perry can’t get things going, the campaign has nobody to blame but itself.

    I support Perry, but acknowledge that his campaign seems determined to pick the precisely wrong fights. Perry has been overly focused on Romney, and Romney is neither is enemy (Obama is that) or his primary rival (Cain is that).

    Being President means making good tactical decisions. I hope these policy proposals by Perry can right the ship—and fast.

  • Carol Tarasewicz

    It does seem like all they do on Fox is talk about Cain. I think it’s from Rove, Morris, etc driving them against Perry. We know Rove hates Perry, I get emails from Morris, according to him only 9-9-9 and Cain will save our country.
    It appears tha Morris is working for Cain but he does not say it.

  • bzip

    I think Perry is just getting started myself. The TV ads are just now starting, Perry is warming yup to interview now (Fox Sunday interview this weekend). Perry just released his cut, balance, growth plan.

    In one of those polls that just came out I was reading somewhere that 80% of the voters still haven’t decided.

    Don’t you think its a little early to be calling a Romney/Cain race?

    I agree, Perry needs to get his rear in gear but as long as the masses seem bent on voting for a empty suit with out a record and are only concerned about how inspiring there candidate is and overlook all the flaws – there isn’t any hope.

  • tngal

    Not following the logic. Please show me the trail. Where’s the evidence?

  • pdawk

    I am not saying he isn’t a super nice guy and obviously you have to have some brains to become governor of Texas. Having said that, in interviews, debates, and even some stump speeches he comes across as somewhat of a hick and bully.

    The reason I think Cain and Romney are winning right now is that people want someone who has served and succeeded in the private sector. They want to put the presidency in the hands of someone they believe is competent in not only government but also business. Perry has been caricatured, and I am not sure there is anything he can do to fix his image.

  • pdawk

    Have you read the front page since the RedState gathering? Your comment is on the brink of being absurd.

  • spinoneone

    should begin with each candidate giving a five minute, uninterrupted, talk on his/her political and economic policies. At least one minute on foreign affairs and economics. The other three on anything the candidate wishes. Then let the debate go for about one hour. Then, folks, no more eating our own children. We get behind the best of the lot and go whole hog against the 0.

  • bzip

    Yep, we agree on that one :-) No VAT, please

  • pdawk

    is the tax plan. I actually think his economic and tax advisers did a great job putting that together.

    Reality is that Perry is in single digits in most polls and essentially tied with Ron Paul. He has a lot of work to do to become relevant again.

  • rkcurtin

    I don’t think a fellow who couldn’t get re-elected in is own state is going to do well in Iowa.

    I’m certain Santorum is personally a good man. I agree with him on most issues that are important to me (Pro-Life, strong national defense).

    But, his ‘angry’ persona in the debates has not gotten him anywhere, and won’t in Iowa, either.

    In these difficult times, we need a positive person to LEAD. I think Cain is doing well because he is an upbeat personality and smiles a lot. It’s a likeability poll so far.

    What a contrast of Cain’s smile to Obama’s dour personality.

    Santorum hasn’t come off of as a positive ‘we can do it’ leader.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    nt.

  • bzip

    I agree with you on this. I think the media, the establishment wants Romney and are using Cain to bring down Perry (the biggest threat to Romney).

    Once Perry can no longer win, they then bring Cain down and there you go – Romney is the man.

  • red_oakster

    If Perry’s going to get a second look, it will be in Iowa. Bachmann’s implosion leaves things fluid and there are at least 40 days or so for Perry to try and persuade those social conservatives that he’s their guy. It’s a tall order, but not impossible given Perry’s resources. If Perry did manage to win Iowa or even finish a strong second, it seems he’s back in the game for South Carolina, Florida, and Nevada.

    Incidentally, I’ve thought for awhile that Romney could lose four of the five early states without anyone else locking it up. If Romney collapses, a brokered convention is only slightly less probable than Cain or Perry winning.

  • circlegranch

    You call it ‘whining’; I call it intellectual curiosity as to why there is an obvious agenda against a candidate that has a record head and shoulders better than the others in the top tier. No one else has the proven ability to create jobs and balance a budget during the current climate. No one else can say they’ve presided over their state being the #1 exporter of all 50 states for the last 9 years. Cain hasn’t worked in business for 15 years and his campaign mgr is a remake of the Marlboro Man so that makes him more qualified? I’ll whine till this is over then, because nobody has a credible reason to explain this disparity. Maybe its the Texas drawl?

    Why when Rick Perry makes a statement that grabs headlines does Fox hammer him on it, day after day, and when Romney makes the blunder in OH by failing to support Gov Kasich,its downplayed? Fox didn’t even cover that story. Romney’s quick back pedal made the news at other sources yesterday, so all is well again and he is beating everybody in the first 4 primary states. Those two events back to back are curious. Cain blows it over and over on major issues and Fox provides cover.

    After having watched Fox for years and having lined the pockets of many of their hosts and contributors by buying a bunch of books, attending tickets speeches and events, this entire dynamic is very concerning to me. What has happened to Fair and Balanced?

    I agree with Rush that Romney is the hand-picked choice of the MSM but he has a big problem. He doesn’t atttract the tea party voter. The only way to get Romney the nomination is to convince the 70% that haven’t come to his camp yet to do so. He can’t do it on his own; he needs someone to gather them up and then deliver them to him and Cain has that nod. Why Cain and not Perry is the question. I maintain that if Perry got all the good press and love fest sessions from Fox hosts and radio personalities that Cain has gotten, there is a fear he could beat out Romney. It’s Romney’s turn and he has the full backing of the Establishment Republicans. For whatever reason, Fox is on board, too.

    Frank Luntz did a focus study of Perry’s new jobs ad that is running in Iowa. It got very high marks from both conservatives and independents–upwards of 70% approval. In contrast, he also showed results of Cain’s smoking ad and its a bomb in both camps–it never cracked 30% approval rating. Call me a whiner, but I’m curious to see if Fox gets Perry or a Perry staffer on today to talk about this remarkable ad and why it resonates so well already in Iowa. Host after host has fawned over the Cain smoking ad even with it being poorly received. Will positive feedback from voters be covered and touted?

  • bzip

    I think you are way off on this one. RS is more anti-Romney then pro.

  • radicalrighty

    If that is true, and it probably is, basically the future of our country is in the hands of a state with 6 electoral votes?

    Absurd.

  • red_oakster

    I don’t think he can get past New Hampshire for all the reasons you mentioned, plus anemic fundraising.

  • rkcurtin

    Yes, Amen!

  • jaykali

    Cain doesn’t have the political machine to win, Perry doesn’t know how to run a national campaign, Romney is prob not an authentic conservative….oh my what to do.

  • Doc Holliday

    until either Cain or Perry drops out? You can’t believe you are convincing anyone, so I hope this is cathartic to you in some way. But can you give me a heads up on when this will end. And just so you don’t think I am picking on you, I ask this to about 20 of your compatriots. I am not talking Perry bots, I am talking all bots.

    There was a time when people here really debated issues. Sure posters often went off half cocked, but at least they knew the rules. If you don’t offer something of substance, if you don’t support your arguments with facts, you will never be considered a serious RS’er.

    a free piece of advice bzip, some who like you know, are doing it only because you bet on the same horse. When things get back to normal after the primaries, don’t bet on their support, this is 6 years here talking.

  • cajungirl2012

    I worked in polling for yrs. It takes a while to put representative samples together-these polls taken every other day are meaningless. 328 people. Really? Plus if you analyze the surveys, they ask questions differently.

    These polls are taken and pushed out for media consumption. Don’t put a lot of weight into them.

  • craigbardo

    Moreover, do you understand how the current tax code adds tax to your purchases?

    Characterizing Cain’s sales tax as a VAT is either willfully ignorant or malicious.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    I worked on enough campaigns to watch them die right after Iowa.

    When you are out of cash, you are done.

    Bachmann ONLY has Iowa.

    Santorum really never even had Iowa, but thinks he does.

  • rkcurtin

    My prediction is Santorum will finish no better than 5th place in Iowa.

    We shall see!

  • politicalgal1

    If you look at the Fox poll, they polled 904 REGISTERED voters, and only 327 were Republicans. Why not poll Likely voters?

    For all the harping Sean Hannity did about the media not vetting Obama during the last campaign, they are just as guilty this campaign cycle.

    They need to hire Brent Bozell from Media Research to do an analysis of their reporting – positive vs negative comments regarding all of the candidates.

    It is a sad day when you can get more fair and balanced coverage of the candidates from CNN than you can Fox News.

  • bzip

    Getting back to the question of what Perry can do:

    Perry needs a lot of air time, lots of interviews. I think he is doing this now (Perry will spend the hour on Fox Sunday).

    Perry needs positive ads (I think he has started this in Iowa)

    Perry needs a vision with good policies. Well, Perry just released his Tax plan (with entitlement reform) Perry lays a wonderful vision out with his plan coupled to his energy plan.

    Perry either needs to expose or have Cain exposed for the empty suit Cain is (in other words people need to be woken up about Cain and taken out of their trance).

    I think Perry needs the media (Fox) to get off their agenda of propping up Romney and using Cain to ensure their Romney win.

    Perry needs to do better in debating.

    Those are the things I see that perry has to do or have done. It appears Perry is working on much this. I also think it is way too early with way too many people undecided.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Perry needs to get up with Ads in the key states and needs to be hitting the different states on a regular basis.

  • gawken

    ..and that’s not likely to change for a while. This race is still wide open, and Perry has big $$$, and in politics, $$$$ is crucial.

    I like Cain..veiw him faborable, but am still not totally sold. As I suspect are a lot who say they support him. I think his support if “soft”..not sure to what extent. He’s a great human being, personable, great values, wonderful personal story, so for many it’s easier to say you “support him” rather than “I’m still undecided.” You may not be ready to write the guy a check, but you can give him a boost this way.

    They’re giving him a chance to convince them..heck, they desperately want to believe that he’s the real deal..

  • unclefred

    The last Fox interview that I saw of Rove was quite negative toward Cain. Rove is pure establishment Republican, you can rely on him to smack any anit-Romeny who he views as viable.

    To the extent that Fox talks about Cain, that may well be because, like it or not, his lead in the polls makes him newsworthy. As I have commented here before, Cain’s story is very compelling, he is likable, and eloquent without a teleprompter.

  • bzip

    Kind of funny, I didn’t think I would ever find myself watching CNN but must admit lately I am finding them far more balanced then Fox.

    Polls aren’t very good as far as I am concerned, it is too early. Heck the TV ad wars haven’t even set it yet.

  • Doc Holliday

    The one deep South candidate must take on all and repel them.

    This should be his theme song. Replace “Virgil” with “Herman”

  • davidpw

    Circlegranch I agree with everything you said. It seems the media is choosing our candidates again and conservatives are letting them. Fox News and Hannity are anti-Perry.

  • politicalgal1

    January 3 – 7 pm – possible snow and ice – and COLD

    It will be interesting to see what the turnout will be. Only the most loyal die hards may be the ones showing up at the thousands of individual precinct caucus sites.

    Based on Newt’s increased presence there in town halls and book signings, I predict he will be the surprise in Iowa.

  • izoneguy

    As Cain Promotes His Management Skills, Ex-Aides Tell of Campaign in Chaos

    If Herman Cain feels his management skills are up to any challenge, some of his former staff members think he should have started with the disorder in his own campaign.

    Mr. Cain has hardly shown up in New Hampshire and Iowa, they said, spending the bulk of his time on a book tour through the South. He occasionally mishandled potential big donors or ignored real voters. His campaign churned through the small staff; last week, his campaign announced the appointment of the veteran campaigner Steve Grubbs, his third Iowa leader in four months.

    Even bumper stickers have been hard to come by.

    And then there was that e-mail to the staff about traveling in a car with Mr. Cain: ?Do not speak to him unless you are spoken to,? the memo said.

    ?I found it odd,? said a former staff member who liked to prep Mr. Cain for appearances while driving. The aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, quit not long afterward, citing the e-mail as one of the deciding factors.

    Mr. Cain?s campaign has generated much promise since it began over the summer. A former business executive rises improbably from anonymity to the top of the polls, using the strength of his speechmaking, folksy charm and catchy policy plans.

    But Mr. Cain?s campaign may have undermined itself with questionable decisions and a series of missteps, which have led to the impression that the candidate lacks focus and preparation.

    Mr. Cain has made several contradictory, and sometimes befuddling, remarks on abortion and foreign policy, which have forced him to spend days clarifying and defending himself.

    But interviews with Mr. Cain?s former staff members, volunteers and supporters give a glimpse of a candidate who appeared to show ambivalence toward basic campaign management, which led to problems in hiring, scheduling, fund-raising and messaging.

    Together, these problems are at odds with a central theme of his candidacy. Because Mr. Cain does not have a legislative or political track record, his campaign rests heavily on the contention that he would bring proven, executive-level expertise from the business world to the White House.

  • unclefred

    The pundits have portrayed this as a two man race since shortly after Perry announced. From casual inspection, I’d bet that there are many more who are still talking about Perry as the other guy than Cain.

    Narratives have a way of writing and then fulfilling themselves. Perry’s problem is that despite the pundits’ attempts to say with the line that only Perry or Roamney can win the nomination, both the Cain surge and the Gingrich comeback narratives are gaining steam.

  • craigbardo

    He is the sitting Governor of Texas. He came into the race with much fanfare. Folks like me who are nearly as opposed to a liberal Romney as I am Obama were looking for a governor as a repudiation to Obama’s obvious lack of executive experience. Perry had great YouTubes and delivered terrific speeches. I was hoping Palin would jump in because her message is the message that will win this thing – Crony capitalism – and she had the track record in her own state, including beating down the establishment in her own party. So, when she decided not to run, the field was cleared for Perry. I was ready to support Perry because I thought he represented the best anti-Romney conservative hope in the race. I love Santorum but he’s angry. I love Bachmann but she got caught up in HPV and got stuck. I love Cain but he had no political experience, so I was excited about Perry.

    What did Perry do with all that advantage? He showed up at a gun fight, not with a knife but with a cap gun, a water pistol and a rubber knife. He knew his mandate on Gardisil was going to be called into question but he was completely unprepared. He had to know the tuition for illegal adults was going to be an issue – his answer to those like me – I have no heart? At the debates, he may as well have been Bush 41 looking at his watch, he looked completely unengaged and almost asleep, not once, not twice, not three times in front of national audiences. He fought comparisons to Bush 43 and I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but he came with the compassionate conservative mess and then used the language of the enemy to describe Romney calling him a “fat cat.” What?

    Perry still has money, staff on the ground and he’s brought in some expertise to help him but he has no one to blame but himself, not Fox News, not the liberal media. He ran an ad, a good ad except it comes on the heels of his debate performances where his entire answer to our economic woes is oil! He’s not running for the governor of Texas! Yes, we need to drill, yes, we need to end the moratoria erected by Obama, yes on all of the above energy but that’s not going to address competitiveness, capital formation, over-regulation etc., required to get the non-energy economy moving.

    I’d like to see him get it together but he’s almost run out of time. He needs to step up his game yesterday.

  • Doc Holliday

    hack?

  • craigbardo

    Has him leading in the polls!

  • davidpw

    I feel the same way. From what I’m hearing many others are beginning to feel the same way. Others are sick of the media shoving Cain down our throats.

    Cain lost me when he said he wouldn?t be Perry’s V.P. but would for Romney and the others. Showed me exactly who he was then. I feel Romney and Cain have been trying to take Perry out since he got in. Cain is always praising Romney but attacking Perry. Very strange.

  • izoneguy

    I am just passing on info “Doc”

  • unclefred

    Perry is his own problem. This was his to win and he, either through ignorance of national priorities or arrogance, squandered his presumptive status as the only viable conservative alternative to Romney. That -21 negative means that a lot of primary voters do not like what they have learned about Perry. He has to turn that around.

    Cain may be many things, lacking in political experience, answering questions that would be better redirected, making statements that are open to misinterpretation, but he is anything but an empty suit. “Waking people up about Cain” may prove counter productive since as people wake up about him more tend to support than move away from him. As I said Perry needs to forget about Cain and clean his own skirts with voters.

  • SoFiMil

    .

  • davidpw

    Perry has only been in this race for 9 weeks. Romney has been running for over five years. Cain ran for Pres. in 2000 and then for Senate, but lost. Cain has been preparing to run for Pres. for many years. Perry only jumped in to help save our country from Obama. He was not planning on running. He is releasing his plans now and starting ads. When more voters hear his solutions instead of media bias he will start rising in the polls again.

    I heard that Perry is getting hundreds of new volunteers every time they get the message out of how well Texas is doing compared to the rest of the country.

  • Doc Holliday

    no one really thinks they are going to bash someone so many times others will start agreeing do they? I know you are serious Izone and far be it from me to tell you what to do here. I just miss the times when we debated the issues and the prerequisite was to come with supporting evidence.

    How long can this site go one with “Cain sux”, “Romney sux”, and “Perry sux”? I have avoided posting most days and it is because the titles and posts pretty much all say what I wrote in the first sentence to this paragraph. Some here post 20+ times a day, all saying XYZ can’t win because of ABC. I say ZZZ.

  • tngal

    that the only reason he came out with the plan was to get all eyes back on him. Cain had changed the entire dialogue its all anybody was talking about and Perry better do something fast to get buzz back in his corner.

    Where as Perry had a lot of buzz when he came in, all of the sudden some upstart never heard of guy starts changing the talking points and thrusts economics in the picture. Now that wasn’t the plan.

    How dare he! The nerve.

    Mr. Romneys plan was somewhat laborious so never really got a lot of traction.

    Even though there was a lot negatives placed on Mr. Cain’s 999 he got a lot of lookers.

    So the only way Mr. Perry can focus the attention back on himself is to suddenly announce at a debate he’s coming out with his own plan.

    Ok. fair enough, but if he was sooo concerned about economics why didn’t he lead the discussion when he first came out. its like he’s playing catch up.

    Then Cain says something about an electric fence. ( the electric part is the joke. I believe he’s serious about the fence) He got put through the wringer and explained his humor.

    next thing you know Perry had trump moment, and the he’s using the joke line. Again, its catch up.

    Cain has already been there, done that and got the shirt.

    (I believe Cain’s was a joke because he has demonstrated a sense of humor repeatedly with his ads. it fits his personality)

  • manvan

    …when his poll numbers were down in the 5% range. Combine that with the intensity level of support that he has always enjoyed. From there he was catapulted to the top tier where he could no longer be ignored by the media. Face it, Cain is a likeable man with an attention grabbing style and message. Cry conspiracy all you want and deny your candidates weaknesses…you will lose.

  • pdawk

    Though I think Cain has a long term viability problem because he hasn’t raised the type of money you expect from a front runner. He has a real Mike Huckabee appeal to him but on the economics rather than social side of the fence.

  • circlegranch

    then when either of them (clearly, it’ll be Romney) gets the nomination, then Obama will hang this whole OWS thing around his neck. Here’s Romney meeting today with business lobbyists for a fundraiser and the reports of him tearing down a multi-million dollar mansion in La Jolla in order to build a bigger mansion because the existing one isn’t big enough to comfortably accomodate his family. His Bain Capital exploits will come to the forefront and so, my fellow grassroots conservatives, I caution you about falling for the private sector line as being the best choice. It may well be the best thing in our minds as far as experience, but if its used against us and we lose to Obama simply because our candidate has a long history of big business affiliation, we didn’t accomplish much. We might lose our nation over it. (Sorry, I’m whining again.)

    Why not choose instead someone with political experience AND knowledge and experience in the private sector? Dealing with oil and gas companies and negotiating with other big business and Fortune 500 companies in enticing them to Texas should add up to some type of private sector business knowlege. Experience as a small business, grain farmer counts too.

  • izoneguy

    I am passing along information.
    I am for Perry, I don’t hide that fact.
    I added no commentary and personally
    I like Cain, I just don’t think he should
    be the President that replaces Obama, at this time.

  • Carol Tarasewicz

    It was three or four weeks ago, I was home early on a Thursday and I got three calls. One was a poll on Obama, the Rs in congress, the dems in congress, etc. When I was done they said it was PPP poll. Second and third calls were from same Atlanta phone number and only asked if I thought Cain was capable to be POTUS, the only other candidate they asked about was Perry. I think it had to be a Cain supporter because they only asked about Cain & Perry.

  • bzip

    Doc you are forgetting something. I already know I won’t change anyone’s mind that is a regularly poster here. What you forget are all the thousands of people who read this site (some daily and some off and on) who never post here aren’t seen and aren’t known (lurkers).

    If I can only open the minds up to a few of these people a day who come here and read and are never seen, I am happy and I am accomplishing something,

  • izoneguy

    Where is she now?

    The Florida Straw Poll gave Cain a boost, no doubt.
    Let’s see how it translates into real voters, voting for him.

  • Doc Holliday

    they should be convincing their friends and neighbors. What Perry needs is votes, he needs to do a heck of a lot better in the polls or his campaign will break up, the money will move to a perceived winner. Trolling for a vote or two on Red State is not time well spent, we are jaded here and know when we are being played.

    That is honest advice. If you really want Perry to be our nominee that badly, hit the big x at the top of your window and then start talking to those who are not as political as we are.

  • circlegranch

    but we’re about to witness it, aren’t we?

    As they say, follow the money in politics. That is apparent today as several top notch folks from our hallowed halls of Congress gather to raise money for Romney and give him a push further to the finish line.

    Romney’s PAC donated maximum amounts to several Congressional members up for re-election in ’10. No other candidate in the race did so. Romney sowed the seeds of automatically winning the nomination in Congress by buying support. What Congressman in his/her right mind would not support the Heir Apparent to the White House, especially after that same guy helped line your re-election coffers? The fix is in, my friends.

  • bzip

    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/look-ahead

  • Doc Holliday

    I have not been posting, but I have been reading. Just to let you and all know. Mainly I have not been posting because of what I have been reading.

  • Doc Holliday

    I do forget the thousands who are not regs at times.

  • circlegranch

    and while he claims to be Mr. Outsider and just a regular fella, he’s found his way into slick, insider politics really fast. He’s in ‘cahoots’ with Romney or I’ll eat my new laptop.

  • circlegranch

    Luntz did a focus group on Perry’s jobs ad running in IA and it got an easy 70% approval rating amongst both conservatives and the coveted independents. (Conversely, Cain’s smoking ad in IA bombed. It barely broke 30% approval among both con’s and indy’s.)

  • gator_hoo

    “A lot of voters do not like what they have heard about Perry”

    I think that after watching the first few debates where the candidates were kinda getting their roots and not attacking each other, Perry was genuinely surprised to find the long knives waiting for him at the debates. I think it also hurt that he is basically the only candidate that has a job right now (except Bachmann, who if I remember correctly didn’t show up for any votes in August) and the wildfires caused him to be less prepared than he should have been.

    However, I have seen more distortions carried about Perry’s record on Gardisil and In-state tuition than any other thing. Gardisil never went into effect and had an optout which only required a signature. Most people don’t understand either of those points. I remember my mom was worried about all those people forced to get Gardisil until I told her that nobody got it under Perry’s plan, and she wondered why the news was reporting it that way.

    Romney is openly lying about instate tuition – I think you would have to go to UT, the most expensive state school, for 10 years for the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition to be $100k. But the way it has been reported, people think that illegal aliens are getting full scholarships to state schools. People are also claiming Perry is for amnesty, when he has been vocal against it and Romney has supported it. And Gardisil never went into effect, and it had as easy an opt out as is possible.

    I agree that he probably would have nipped these concerns in the bud if he had addressed them properly at first. However, each campaign has its missteps, and Perry has seemed to pay the most for his.

    Romney still has not had to fully answer for Romneycare, and Perry is the only one attacking him on that front.

    Each of Cain’s missteps is explained away as “he’s new at this” and “he’s too honest” except that he’s too honest doesn’t explain how he constantly makes statements about what he believes that contradict other statements about what he believes. And also, “new to this” doesn’t work once you are the president, or even the nominee. I am very concerned that Cain, if he gets the nomination, may prove to be a Christine O’Donnell, and would hamper conservatives in politics more than Romney. Also, I have asked a number of people what about Cain’s positions makes them believe he would govern as a conservative, and nobody is able to answer that question in a way that squares either with 1) what Cain said or 2) distorting conservative positions.

  • uncmike

    My evidence is purely anecdotal, but I do know several folks (including my mother and brother) who get 100% of their information from Fox, and they all really talk up Cain using the standard points we hear about his business experience, being an outsider, etc. Like it or not, many if not most conservatives rely on Fox for most of their information as the “anti-MSM” news source, and place far too much weight on what they hear from pundits there. Beltway types like Rove, Krauthammer, Perino, Morris et al., get a lot of face time on Fox, especially in prime time, and I think they’re all backers of establishment Republican types like Romney. Not sure why they are so enamoured of Cain other than the fact that he is a likeable television presence and doubtless helps with their TV audience. I don’t think Fox as an entity has it in for Perry, I think it’s just the way their programming is constituted and the personalities they happen to feature which are mostly establishment figures. I am a Perry back, based on his track record in Texas. He has his warts, but when I look around at the other candidates, I see only Romney with the resources, organization, etc. to see the campaign through to the end. I just don’t see how Cain will sustain a national campaign after the first couple of states–maybe he will. If he’s in it all the way, and Perry drops out, I’d sure back Cain over Romney.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    He’s the one who coined that VAT stupid line arguing against a national sales tax.

    Quoth Herman Cain at RedState:

    “The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.”

  • rkcurtin

    No one else has the traction to pull the hill, I’m afraid.

    Romney, McCain, Lindsey Graham, I can just see them all getting together and yucking it up.

    The vision makes me sick…..

  • bs61

    I stopped watching Fox when all of the reports were anti-Cain, saying there is no way he can win the primary. Tea Partiers are not idiots, we realize an elite, know-it-all media when we see it!

  • cajungirl2012

    He may be smart, but all I see is someone acting like a clown, and it’s really getting old.

  • paulplantowin

    “Perry is his own problem.” Same for Santorum.
    Conservative credentials combined with personality deficit disorder (Santorum’s morality rants mostly make me cringe)
    or just a pure inability to speak in clear coherent sentences (Perry)
    are not winning support.
    People here, more sophisticated than me, look for explanations in Fox conspiracies, etc.
    To me it is fairly simple – People like Herman more than Perry.
    Newt has an amazing grasp of so many issues only his baggage holds him down.
    Just sayin’

  • gator_hoo

    That the Romney camp pulled a Ron Paul for Cain at the Florida straw poll. Admittedly, only rumors, but it makes sense.

  • tngal

    n/t

  • bzip

    To me it is fairly simple ? People like Herman more than Perry.

    Again I get started with this. Cain is a loveable likeable guy do we elect presidents because we like them or they have the most experience?

    I don’t get it. I keep asking for people to offer what Cain’s substance is?

  • circlegranch

    because the new national guys have only been on board less than a week. The one new aide was instrumental in getting Rick Scott elected in FL, soundly defeating the marvelously elite Republican, Charlie Crist. (Yes, the same guy that threw everybody under the bus in ’08 and handed us McCain, and in doing so, handed America the worst nightmare we could have ever imagined.)

    The very positive response to Perry’s jobs ad in Iowa is a good foundation to play some catch up ball. Even if he finishes #2 or #3 in Iowa that’s strong compared to the free fall he’s been in. I think the next 100 days are going to reveal a very different picture in terms of where Rick Perry stands.

    For those of you that are tired of the exchange amongst Perry supporters, have you considered simply skipping comments with his name listed?

  • Finrod

    .

  • uncmike

    I agree that only in the GOP (the “stupid party”) can we end up with a candidate for President backed only by 25% of the base. I happened to check National Review Online a bit earlier this morning and they have a poll (non-scientific, of course, but arent’t they all). It asks whether Romney is inevitable. Even over at NRO, which is clearly in the bag for Romney, of those who replied (some 4,575 so far) only 24% say he is inevitable, while 76% say he’s not. This seems exactly in line with actual polling where Mitt seems able to garner only about 25% support, and that from registered Republicans, not likely primary voters. If Romney does get in because the base splits its votes among Cain, Perry, Gingrich, Santorum, Bachmann, Paul, etc., will the Republicans be fired up enough in the general election to put Mitt in the White House. Will the base be fired up enough to take the Senate back or to hold gains in the House. Maybe, or maybe not. I don’t think establishment Republicans care whether they take the White House or Senate–they seem comfortable letting Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi make their decisions for them.

  • Return to Revolution

    If nothing else Cain makes this a very interesting primary. While he polls well, his fundraising is still way behind, while Perry is the complete opposite; polling toward irrelevancy but has lots of $. As of a week ago, even Ron Paul is raising more than Cain. Not trying dismiss Cain, just wondering how and if this will factor in when it comes time to actually vote.

  • bzip

    To me Cain has to answer for a lot of things:
    Cain and Gun Control
    Cain was for an electric fence or not
    Cain is for exchanging GITMO prisoners or not
    Cain is not for auditing the fed or not
    Cain and racial baiting
    Cain fellow blacks are brainwashed

    Gun Control 2nd amendment and Cain:
    Won?t answer the question:
    http://youtu.be/VWA8lV7yDX0

    Answers the question at the end with control going to states:

    http://youtu.be/Wmhu1QkRbqY

    TARP Problem:
    ?He backed the Wall Street bailout, or according to Cain, the ?recovery plan,? as he called it on his radio show. Cain wrote that nationalizing banks ?is not a bad thing.?

    Fed Audit Problem caught lying:
    ?Herman Cain, former Chairman and Member of the Board of Directors for the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City, flippantly denies the need to Audit the Federal Reserve?
    In His Own Words:
    http://youtu.be/uiAkeFJXwUk

    http://nationaljournal.com/magazine/from-pizza-to-k-street-to-president–19990306

    Was Cain a good CEO?
    http://stevedeace.com/news/iowa-politics/hermans-head/

  • circlegranch

    I also challenge Perry supporters (‘bots, ‘ites, whatever you prefer to be called) to make every Friday a “Five Dollar Friday for Freedom”. Donate $5 every Friday to the Perry campaign. If 100 people do it, that’s one TV ad in a small market in Iowa and a couple radio ads.

    Taking back America, 5 bucks at a time. Who’s with me?

  • macbookben

    …and sounds like GWB, too. And he’s from Texas. I can see the MSM media making hay out of this if Perry gets the nomination. Liberal media logic as opiate for the masses would go like this: Obama inherited Bush’s mess (so it is mostly his and the Republicans’ fault). Bush was a cowboy Republican, so is Perry. Ergo, if you elect Perry you might as well be voting for GWB. While I believe well-constituted, clear thinking individuals, such as those you would find here at RS, can smell this BS a mile away, voters who have avoided politics in favor of other distractions may succumb to the propaganda. Obama will have a thousand million dollars in the upcoming campaign to get the independents and mods (“squishies”) to see Perry in that sort of light. So yeah, Perry needs to use that brilliant staff of his to make him attractive, because anything less will obscure his solid conservative credentials and vision. Right now, Perry is pretty safe in the southern states. But he has an image problem that he’ll have to polish between now and the primary if he is to capture the nomination.

  • bs61

    Santorum starte off on a high not speaking about the greatness of America, now he just has angry eye brows!

  • JSobieski

    is a VAT. There is nothing “ignorant” about that.

  • Bill S

    when every week someone accuses the site of being in bed with a different candidate.

  • evilleramsfan

    n/t

  • davidpw

    I heard Romney’s people were telling his supporters to vote for Cain. A reporter even made that comment. A lot of things we don’t know about that goes on behind closed doors.

  • JSobieski

    http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/279761/herman-cains-9-9-9-plan-has-vat-plus-sales-tax-josh-barro

  • texas214

    So far he has attacked Romney, Cain and the others without giving a reason for him to be president. Yes he has grown the Texas economy, but until he can plainly explain why (think of Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader) and what his plan is and how the sucess in Texas will relate to the rest of the country, he will not move in the polls

  • paulplantowin

    Your efforts are working for me – backwards. Your posts make it harder for me to respect Perry.
    Calling Cain an ‘empty suit’ is not helping ‘open minds’ IMO.
    I began reading this site (RS) about a year ago. I started posting occaisionally a few months back.
    I read almost every comment – and learn a lot usually.
    If you are really seeking to sell Perry to the ‘lurkers’ I think you might want to reconsider your tone. A little too strident and desparate sounding IMO
    I mean no offense – just being honest.

  • JSobieski

    9% Business Flat Tax
    ?Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
    ?Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone

    http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

    It is ignorant to simply deny that the 9% business flat tax is a VAT.

    What are the differences between the 9% business flat tax and a VAT?

  • pmb88

    Cain has many great qualities, but the only reason he is up in the polls imho is his 999 plan. Its bold, fresh, and simplistic. Also it was one of the plans that put a serious discussion on reform.

    Now this week Perry’s economic plan was introduced. His plan deals with taxes, spending, and regulations.

    Correct me if I am wrong but Cains plan only deals with taxes and not spending which is a part of the problem,

    Once the voters start examining the details of Perry’s plan, it may shift the polls more in to Perry’s favor.

  • izoneguy

    I am hitting up everyone I know and then some.
    Let’s just say that I have talked with some
    business owners whose influence goes beyond
    Texas and they are backing Perry.
    Many of their business’s are on the line
    and they need strong growth in the coming years
    or it is all over.

  • pdawk

    Reading Perry comments all the way down, I thought that the title said “Why doesn’t RedState just come out and endorse Perry”.

    Obviously RedState front pagers are not very fond of Romney and have gone out of their way to be Perry cheerleaders.

  • izoneguy

    Would you rather have Perry on your side as President
    or back as the governor of Texas taking more
    business & jobs from your state. Just think about it.

  • lineholder

    And no, I’m not attacking Perry, so please don’t even go there. Something has presented an obstacle in Perry’s way. What is it? This is where there should be some problem-solving going on. Is it an issue problem? Is it a public perception problem? Identify what the biggest obstacle is and address it. Don’t blame in on anyone else. Blame doesn’t get it resolved. Resolve it. Face it. Address it. Deal with it. Get it out of the way and gone.

    This element of problem-solving is something that seems to be lacking. It is possible that the new people Perry has brought on board can identify the root cause of whatever obstacles he’s facing and address it. The sooner that happens, the better.

  • Doc Holliday

    I am still yet to pick a candidate. If I had to make the choice for the party at this moment, my choices would be Gingrich>Cain>Perry.

  • lineholder

    and get it done. Don’t waste time hand-wringing. It isn’t going to get any better if he wins the nomination and has the entire leftist media against him. Challenge what’s been presented. Prove them wrong.

  • tommyfrisco

    Perry’s campaign has been a huge disappiontment so far and he has only himself to blame. He was totally unprepared for a national campaign and has made numerous and serious mistakes…the kind of mistakes that a novice like Herman Cain might make, but not the kind a career politician should be making. I am shocked to the point of being stunned at what I’ve seen so far. Hearing that he might stop attending the debates is just about the final straw.

    Perry must stop focusing on the other candidates and start focusing on the one person we want him to beat…Obama! We don’t care who’s mowing Romney’s lawn. We need to hear how he can win the general election. We don’t need details. Obama won by repeating the Hope and Change mantra.

    BTW, I am (still) a Perry supporter. I grew up near Paint Creek and I’ve voted for him in every race he’s been in, but he must do better asap or I’m switching over to Gingrich.

  • nativetexan41

    I have noticed that all of the shows do all they can to put Perry down. Murdock,Roger Ailes are for Romney. I have never seen Fox do this before,I will not watch them so much anymore. They need to change the motto to” Fair and Unbalanced”. Sean , Doocy, Greta are among the worse.
    I am voting for Perry, and pray for God to Bless him.

  • Spartan4Life

    Look, if he can’t win in Iowa, he probably can’t win. He has more money and more organization than Cain and Bachmann is fading. He should go into Iowa and attack Romney as too liberal on social issues. It will play well there.

    Remember, caucus is a whole different deal. Whoever gets their people to the caucus wins. Remember Obama’s path to nomination? Until he won Iowa, Hillary was inevitable. Cain hasn’t made much effort in Iowa. Perry still has the time, money, and retail skills. If he pulls what would now be seen as an upset it will give him great momentum in SC and Fla.

  • Vaughn Harold

    Some just don’t want to acknowledge it, and it doesn’t seem Perry has a solution since he’s considering not participating in some of the upcoming debates.

  • lineholder

    problem-solving doesn’t limit itself to only one problem. If there is more than one problem that exists, prioritize them. Which problem seems to be having the greatest impact? Why is this particular problem having the most significant impact? How can it be resolved? What’s the best way to go about it? What options exist to address it?

    And then look at the second most significant and so forth And if it’s possible to do a two-fer and resolve two problems at one time, so much the better.

    But blame and hand-wringing don’t get it done. Time is a factor for Perry now. So if he wants to win this, he should be trying to utilize every means he can find to overcome the obstacles that stand in his way.

    Actions speak louder than words, and actions can play a part in public perception as much as anything else can.

  • rightwingmom52

    One reason Cain is doing so well is that his supporters are on the ground working. We’re involved in the process.

  • kestrel

    But from the “horserace” mentality, aptly characterized by Aaron Gardner as “point guard political hoop dreams” to the lack of interest in Perry’s economic plan (Erick has yet to address it, and he placed a Perry “birtherism” piece next to the only serious analysis of it — Horozitz’s piece; then EE began yet his next piece with another reference to birtherism: “Hey Rick Perry, if you weren?t trying to have fun with birtherism…” ), to strange headlines like “The Perry Campaign Shakes Up” (implies a problem; compare to WaPo’s headline: “Rick Perry beefs up national campaign staff, readies ads for Iowa TV”) (compare it also to EE’s “Americans For Cain Fires Up in Iowa” — a positive plug for a “flavor of the month” candidate who has no serious chance of winning the nomination) — there are lots of things here, including using photos of Perry that make his skin look green. (Make hay with that last one, conspiracy theorists. I put it in just for you!)

    If you ask me, RS is playing into the liberal hope (of a splintered conservative vote giving us Romney) to such an extent that it is becoming difficult to believe it’s not intentional.

    I don’t know when is the best time for candidates with no serious chance of winning to drop out of the race, but it will stick in my craw in the worst way if they stay in too long. Michigan ended up with a RINO governor who won the primary with 37% of the vote, and I have trouble not holding against even good people the fact that they stayed in the race with no chance of winning. Thinking about it makes a person choke when we are now daily having to fight, truly fight, the big-government statist Republicans and their multibillion dollar cronyist schemes, day after never-ending day.

    I’m not as regular a reader as some here, but in looking for evidence for you, I found Aaron’s piece “Time for the Conservative Movement to Wake Up” and I completely agree with it.

    Anyone who thinks Perry won’t mop the floor with Obama in a debate — Obama!, who can’t even sound American without a teleprompter! — is crazy.

    Aaron is 100% correct. I will try to read the comments there.
    http://www.redstate.com/aarongardner/2011/10/26/time-for-the-conservative-movement-to-wake-up/

  • manvan

    …the second part of my post:

    “Combine that with the intensity level of support that he has always enjoyed. From there he was catapulted to the top tier where he could no longer be ignored by the media. Face it, Cain is a likeable man with an attention grabbing style and message. Cry conspiracy all you want and deny your candidates weaknesses?you will lose.”

    Cling to the conspiracies at your own demise. The Cain train chugs on ahead!

  • rkcurtin

    Manufacturing is big in Iowa. Hogs and Corn are not all Iowa is about.

    How about Rick Perry talking about helping this sector of the US economy (enough about how great Texas is, we’re tired of it)?

    I’m amazed how many candidates don’t even know their own Country.

    I’m a social conservative, but my family needs Jobs to support their churches and charities, too.

  • thisisme7

    1. Fox news is touting Cain because they know good and well Cain is in it for Romney, which is why they kiss butt to both.
    2. Hannity is pro-establishment in this race. No question, and he cannot, nor can anyone else deny it.
    3. Rush gave glowing reviews to Perry’s new tax plan because it a good plan. Period. Btw, Rush was pressing Perry to get in the race in the first place, so endorsement or not, he is a Perry fan.
    As far as the Cain ad, even Romney shill Hannity said the ad was terrible. So, that is bad when the ticket he is shilling for gets criticism from him.

  • nativetexan41

    Good for you going to Iowa to help Perry, I wish I could do that too, I can contribute. Everybody can give five dollars. Let’s win Iowa , then on to the other states.
    We need Perry’s energy and tax plan. Perry 2012!!

  • clintonformccain

    were both taken before Perry’s rollout of his flat tax proposal on Tuesday. Let’s see what things look like in another week or two.

    ————

    This stuff is not rocket science. The populist tea party wing of the Republican party has been flaling around from candidate to candidate looking for an alternative to Mitt Romney. They aren’t very discriminating as long as they get red meat: Christine O’Donnell, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain — all empty vessels to dump tea party aspirations into. That’s what happened with Perry’s ridiculous rise in the polls. People were jumping on his bandwagon without knowing the first thing about him. And then he offered the heresy of not wanting to electrocute illegal allien children.

    One of two things is going to happen. The nominating process will get serious as the voters start to actually focus, or the Republicans will nominate a Sharon Angle or Christine O’Donnell on pure emotion and Barack Obama will win re-election.

    ———–

    BTW, I don’t think FOX NEWS has been particularly unfair to Rick Perry. I think Perry got the full pinata treatment as the price of entering the race as the front-runner. He did a poor job of anticipating the obvious attacks. For example, he should have known that in-state tuition would be a hot-button issue to the rabid base and been prepared with a better dodge (see Mitt Romney). Perry was hurt by entering the race as the front-runner because he didn’t have the luxury of a month or two to find his sea-legs. We’ll see how things unfold as he gets a second look. I’m having a hard time visualizing the nomination actually going to Herman Cain or Newt Gingrich.

  • retire05

    The problem comes from his sticking his foot in his mouth, on a number of issues, and then brushing the gaffe off as a “joke” and telling voters America needs to get a sense of humor.

    Now, perhaps Cain finds humor in the current state of our union, but you can bet the millions of unemployed do not. They are looking for a leader, not a comedian that will keep them rolling in the aisles.

    You say that Cain was some upstart that dethroned Perry. I would suggest to you that Cain had better name recognition going into the race than Perry did. Cain had a nationally syndicated radio show, had made many, many tv appearences, (he was especially liked at Fox). But voters in New Jersey don’t spend much time learning who the governor of Texas, or Montana, is. Mostly, politics are local.

    You asked why Perry didn’t lead with ecomonics right out of the gate. Why didn’t Romney, or Newt, or Santorum or even Cain? It is because it takes time to formulate your economic policies, and although Romney has been basically running for POTUS since Jan. 2007, he just recently came out with his 59 point plan. What was his delay all about?

    Oh, yes, Cain came out with his 9-9-9 plan pretty quick. But when asked to explain it, his repsonse was to go to his website. That is not an explaination of the 9-9-9 plan, it is a request for website hits. If a candidate cannot explain his own plan with a voter having to read it, it’s too complicated. Now, here we are, months later, hearing about 9-0-9 and “empowerment zones” which is, once again, a system of picking losers and winners. The winners being those blue cities that have destroyed their economies and their job base. Steven Moore of the WSJ, who helped design the 9-9-9, recently said that Cain needed to lose the middle 9% because no one wants to pay an additional 9% sales tax. But if Cain does that, his whole plan fails.

    As to Cain’s “fence” JOKE. It was crass and stupid. And he knew it. The worst part is he talked about it to the Tennessee Tea Party. This gave fuel to the left wing media that is carrying Obama’s water by claiming the Tea Party is nothing more than a racist organization. Cain singled out one group of illegals, Hispanics, by saying he would put the sign “This will kill you” on the fence in English and SPANISH. So he brushed it off as a “joke”. The backlash has not been small. Hispanic Republicans in Arizona are demanding Cain resign the race. If Cain takes the nomination, I promise you, the only 999 will be the number of Hispanic Republican votes he takes.

    So while you defend Cain’s jokes, you rail on Perry who was basically making fun of the Parade interviewer for asking a stupid question and not wanting to let it go. Now, perhaps you have been privy to Obama’s birth certificate to be able to authenticate it, but no one else has, and yes, it is a moot point which Perry readily pointed out.

    You point to Cain’s personality. Fine, Vote for him. And you will be no different than the millions who voted for Obama based on nothing but what they perceived his personality to be. But don’t ask me to follow you.

  • thisisme7

    That certainly was a deal breaker for me, I will never support Cain at this point. Two can play at that game Mr. Cain, you wanna tell someone you would not support them 100% when they are on your side? Right back at ya!

  • retire05

    That’s the rumors in Austin. And elsewhere in the state by people who are finely tuned to Texas politics.

    No, Rove cannot be a paid advisor to Romney, and still keep his Fox gig. But he can, quietly and behind the scenes, advise Romney. QUID PRO QUO. Remember, Rove and Jeb Bush were behind the push to get Paul Ryan in the game. When Ryan declined, they switched teams and went to Team Romney. Why is Jeb Bush, close to Rove, sending emails to Jennifer Rubin of the WaPo making a big deal out of Perry’s “birthisms” when Bush knows, or should know, that Perry was really poking fun of the interviewer and even Trump?

  • Scope

    that has been going through my mind in recent days. It has not been that long ago that we read that Ailes was moving Fox father left, or to the center at best. I believe that in meetings with Ailes, and the Fox hosts, he told them to go easier on Obama. There have been even more leftist guests and regulars on Fox than I have ever seen before. The 6 PM panel has changed, and Williams and Liason are no longer the regular democrats on that segment.

    Wasn’t it shortly after Murdock’s problems started surfacing that Ailes started making the major changes? It would appear that Murdock is too busy now with his own legal problems, and has given Ailes all the say now. Perhaps the left has finally been successful with their attacks on Fox, and has gotten to Murdock, hence the going easier on Obama bit.

    There is no question in my mind that the left desperately wants Romney to be the nominee. On some of the major issues, Romney has no argument against Obama. How can he fight against Obamacare with Romneycare being the blueprint for Obamacare. Romney’s advisers met with those crafting Obamacare. Romney has come out this year and said that Global Warming is real, and is manmade. How can he fight Obama on Cap and Trade and green energy when he imposed the highest restrictions as Gov. on greenhouse gasses. His one time environmental adviser is now Obama’s climate cazr, John Holdren. How can he fight Obama on the Wall St. bailouts, and corporate cronyism when he himself was Mr. Wall St. with Bain capitol. Didn’t he take bailout monies or government monies for Bain in some way? He refused to stand with Kasich on his fight against the unions the other day. How will he fight against the budget busting state employee unions that the Republican Governors are trying to reform? I can’t come up with any major issue that Obama can’t slam him with. His tax plan was considered very weak, and really accomplished little to nothing to reform the tax policy, but rather just barely touched on the fringes.

    There is also no question in my mind that Fox is using Cain in order to take out Perry, starting with Wallace bringing up the rock story, and getting Cain to imply in that interview that Perry was a racist. I thought it was a leftist tactic to shout racist even when racism doesn’t exist.

    Brit Hume is so anti-Perry his skin pores exude Perry hate. Lately Hume has been making some unflattering comments about Cain, because Cain has now overtaken Romney in some polls. As someone else had said below, Fox may have crowned a king, but not the one they wanted crowned.

    I promise, in the not to distant future, Cain will make another gaffe of some sort, and Fox will turn on him so fast his head will spin. Cain is already crying about Rove and his whiteboard on Fox one morning, saying that Rove is trying to damage his campaign. As I said, Hume is already taking shots at Cain. Krauthammer has never been on the Cain train, but remained neutral to quiet on Cain for the most part.

    I’m not surprised at all with the Fox poll results. They have elevated him to the level of a king, and they have convinced a very wide audience that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Soon enough that table is going to turn.

  • bzip

    I personally have never denied that Perry has his own set of problems and have outlined in the below message link what I think Perry needs to do and I think he is now doing it:

    http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2011/10/27/perry-had-better-get-fed-up-fast-this-is-herman-cain-time/#comment-16380

    Yes, Perry has problem and he needs to address them.

    Funny we all seem to agree Perry has a problem with debates. Some say he needs to go after Obama, some say he has to go after Romney and others say he has to go after Cain. Well, who is right and surely if he takes one of these routes someone isn’t going to be happy with his debate.

    My opinion is: I don’t see why Perry needs to go after Obama this early. There is plenty of time for that and it will get into full gear as the season goes on. Lets face it Perry is taking to us conservatives does he have to sell us that Obama is bad (I sure hope not, that is nwhy I think attacking Obama this soon isn’t needed).

    Perry needs to be more positive in his debates, outline his vision with his policies that he has released. He needs to contrast his vision, the difference between him and Romney as well as Cain.

    If that means he goes negative to show the differences in Cain’s 999 plan or Romney and his flip-flopping I think that is good BUT Perry does need to be more positive and present his own vision (he has a great one and a great record to show he can do it).

    I still say though with 8 people on a stage it is very hard to get some of this out there and have good substance and for that reason I can agree with Perry about being selective in what debates he attends.

    Just my opinion.

  • paladin1

    coming around to a sharp recognition of how to run a national compaign. His surface negatives among thosse who are actually listening at this point in time are being fueled by the winds of the media, including Fox. I believe his new focus on positive ads, well-received plans (Limbaugh seemed ecstatic over it and his support, which I hope will be forthcoming, will be invaluable), and staff additions/changes will result in moving him into positive ground soon. With the caucuses and primaries looming, I think his campaign’s tempo will soar now; earlier would have been better but there is still time to get it right. Go Gov.!

  • Doc Holliday

    Cain’s add got 100 times the views, I bet someone liked it. Iowa Repubs are nutty anyway, they want to nominate Christ.

    I liked the smoking part, shows some men are still men.

    ***disclaimer – no i am not going to say people should not smoke, it is not my business. yet i am not saying smoking makes you a man, I am saying a man who smokes is not afraid to show that in an ad.

  • rightwingmom52

    which I asked you about yesterday here?

    DRUCKER: Well, I think we have begun this week to see the cracks in Herman Cain.

    First of all, he?s getting the attention you get as a top-tier candidate. You saw he changed up his 9-9-9. All of a sudden, I guess it?s not as simple as he said it was. And it is very easy, Chris, to attack this in a 30-second television ad.

    All you have to say is, your taxes are going up. And he can argue all that he wants about, you didn?t do the math right, and check with my team and not your team, and that policy analysis group isn?t really independent, but people, they just don?t have time for all of this.

    The second thing you?ve seen is what happens when you have an undisciplined candidate. And I?d love to disagree with Brit just to make it fun, but the truth of the matter is, when you have limited campaign experience, and you?re under the white-hot spotlight of running for president, this is what can happen.

    And I think the reason that Romney hasn?t attacked Cain is he hasn?t had to. People like us have been looking at his plan and writing all sorts of things, and it?s taking care of the problem. If there?s any threat he has, it?s Perry and the $15 million, and a very friendly persona if you get him away from the debates, and that?s ultimately his competition.

    WALLACE: You know, let?s tell a dirty little secret, which is that we, because we don?t want this to be Obama-Romney for the next year, want to see a Republican primary race.

    And I get the sense, Kim, that you are suggesting that there?s going to be an effort, whether on his part or on our part, to kind of resuscitate Rick Perry.

    STRASSEL: Well, yes. We?re not the only ones that don?t want an Obama-Romney. I mean, the White House is out there, and they are going to try to undermine Romney as much as they can, make this go on as long as it can, and have the other Republicans in the field damage him as much as they can.

    Wallace video is here and transcript is here.

    Fox is giving Perry a full hour interview on Sunday.

  • clintonformccain

    Everything else is just window dressing. The anger at illegal immigrants is palpable in the conservative Republican base. Heresy on that issue is worse than saying you favor tax increases or support Planned Parenthod — an automatic disqualification.

    Perry’s fall wasn’t from a bad debate. It was from a bad debate on this issue.

  • kestrel

    and refused to back away from it, long before Cain ever thought of saying anything risky or specific. Also, Perry’s economic/tax plan is far more serious and comprehensive than 999.

    Perry’s done the actual work of governing, created a positive business climate that has businesses flocking to Texas and creating millions of jobs, and he has reformed tort law to the point that physicians are also flocking to practice in Texas.

    If anyone needs to “catch up”, it’s Cain, who could not even get elected to a statewide office.

  • carolynr

    The Energy Plan is the JOBS Plan that will help us right away and fill the hiatus until the MEGA bucks come in to pay down the debt. We will be paying less for everything and providing jobs. For the Greenies…Natural Gas is fantastic…clean and cheap and our commercial vehicles currently run on it. Go Perry.

  • bzip

    In fact I watch that very segment of Fox, I hear that and it only reaffirmed to me that the media drives the conversation and they have their own agenda.

    Yes, sure I was happy to hear they now want to bring Perry back alive. That was last Sunday, it hasn’t been long and I am waiting to see how they change their agenda (if they do).

    My jaw drop when I heard Chris state that it was so openly admitted and yet it so easily reaffirms what many have stated the media has there agenda, they drive it and set the rules of it.

  • paladin1

    I am sending a regular monthly contribution to him. I’m with you!

  • paladin1

    I am sending a regular monthly contribution to him. I’m with you!

  • rightwingmom52

    those rumors or what you “heard” because that’s all they are. This discussion came up back when Cain won the straw poll in FL –

    here

    and

    here

    and

    here.

  • carolynr

    To my knowledge there aren’t any perfect people, just people that think they are, i.e., Romney and Obama…and they are of like minds.
    Perry, IMO, is the only one that has the guts to tell it to Obama in a debate. I don’t need fancy adjectives…in fact, most of America doesn’t want to hear it. I want statements of fact and Obama loses on all counts. I could write a book on what Obama has done. What I am looking at is the personality. The only other person that could do this is Newt but in the back of my mind, with Newt…I still worry about the GOP cronyism.

    The plan is out, he needs to know it inside and out. Romney’s plan is a short version of Obamacare…nobody can understand the thing. It is like looking at a programmer’s formula. I am wondering when the America public is going to wake up to the fact that Herman is a nice guy…but not presidential material nor is his plan any good. It would actually reduce GDP…because we couldn’t afford to buy anything. 17% on a pair of shoes…nope…I’ll wait. Besides, the Congress would never pass it.

    Perry does need to draw a line in the sand about his tax plan…5 years to choose it, then people can see how good it will work…even for the poor and middle class.

  • citizenkh

    A friend who attended the GOP Women’s Straw Poll turned against Cain after seeing all the bought votes in Kansas City. Ron Paul tactics.

    I’m seeing the news about how Cain “packed the house” in Corpus Christi last night. The fact is that the regular patrons of Nueces County Republican Women’s annual fundraiser were not going to attend due Herman Cain was the speaker (I saw a good chunk of email correspondence forwarded to me with full threads). Cain was selected because no other presidential candidate was available.

    It was NOT viewed as a campaign rally for Cain by locals.

  • clintonformccain

    This is all still at the stage where the voters have just sat down at the table are are reading the discriptions on the menu:

    “Ooooh. Prmie Rib, that’s sounds good…”

    “Hmmm Shrrmp Scampi. I love Shrimp Scampi”

    For the most part, notody is actually focused on a real decision at this point. We are still at the stage where a Howard Dean or a Mike Huckabee can be leading in the polls.

  • redmymind

    Just see how the pieces about Perry are worded. They are geared to incite doubt and place Perry’s initiatives in the most negative light. FYI, I’ve stopped listening to Sean Hannity who seems to drool all over Romney and Cain at every chance he gets . . . maybe even getting that “tingling feeling up his legs” as did Chris Mattews over BHO.

  • Scope

    From an article I read a few weeks ago, Romney hired Blunt as his Senate campaign person, in order to convince the R senators to support/endorse him. So far, Romney has only 3 senators supporting him, while Perry has one. In the House, Romney has 11 supporters (mostly older incumbents) while Perry has 8. Perry has 3 Governors supporting him, Romney has one.

    Also it was pointed out in the article that the newbie R’s in the house are not backing Romney. Anyone who has remained more true to conservatism is not backing Romney. Many are just sitting back right now, and are staying mum on presidential choices. Even some of those that Romney tried to buy support from, with donating to their campaigns are not jumping on his bandwagon. There is still hope.

  • rightwingmom52

    that what Wallace said doesn’t seem consistent with the anti-Perry message that’s been making the rounds here.

  • rightwingmom52

    Better stated … “with the Fox is anti-Perry message that’s been making the rounds here.”

  • carolynr

    I agree…but how are you going to explain something in a minute and one half? He did a pretty good job on O’Reilly. I think that people have to understand what the heck is going on. For instance, bet a lot of you did not know that FL is being sued for in-state tuition. Why, they feel entitled that because of paying taxes into the state while in pre-college schools, which the FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES, they have rights. Besides that, Perry said on O’Reilly that the Legislature overwhelmingly passed the law..NOT PERRY…in fact, if he vetoed it…there would still be in-state tuition. However, his words were “We’d rather have payers than takers”.

    Compare that with Michigan who has Muslim immigrants, some of them with 4 wives, the claim one as spouse and the other as dependents for WELFARE. Why haven’t we jumped through the roof on that deal. They are takers.

  • bzip

    I would agree but that just surfaced last weekend and I haven’t seen anything to show that Fox is now trying to bring Perry alive.

    If anything it shows they have a agenda and reaffirms what has been said here :-) .

  • retire05

    The recent CBS polls were for NH, Iowa, SC and Florida. So I went back and looked at the same CBS polls in October 2007 (South Carolina wasn’t done until Dec. 2007 by CBS)

    Florida results: (2007)

    Guiliani 38%
    Romney 17%
    McCain 11%
    Thompson 11%
    Huckabee 9%

    Iowa results (2007)

    Romney 29%
    Thompson 18%
    Huckabee 12%
    Guiliani 11%
    McCain 7%

    South Carolina (Dec. 2007)

    Huckabee 24%
    Thompson 17%
    Guiliani 16%
    Romney 16%
    McCain 13%

    I didn’t bother with NH because Romney lead there in 2007 and leads there now. Romney will take NH, but so what? NH will vote blue in the general election.

    In 2008, Huckabee took Iowa on Jan. 3rd and McCain took Florida after that. Almost all the polls in October, 2007 had Guiliani, Thompson and Romney leading. By Feb. 7, 2008, all three had dropped out of the race. Thompson was skyrocking against the “Nation’s mayor” in October, 2007 as Cain is now, but just as fast as that rocket went up, it came down. In all four 2007 polls, McCain was bottom tier. Yet, the rest is history.

  • Vaughn Harold

    if Perry is just some sort of marionette who runs into problems when asked questions that aren’t part of his programming.

  • retire05

    then it should be a problem for Huntsman as well since Utah gives in-state tuition to children of illegals. But it doesn’t seem to be. Now, you can brush that off as Huntsman not being important, but it is hypocritical to blame Perry for what 12 other states have done.

    It is also not a problem for those of us who live in states that have a strong Hispanic population. We have, fortunately, learned the difference between productive Hispanic citizens and illegals. We don’t equate them. It is a lesson the rest of the nation needs to learn, quick, as the Hispanic population is the fastest growing segment of our nation now just as the Irish and Italians were in the late 19th and early 20th century.

    The Democrats convinced the Irish and Italians that the Republican party was against them and created huge voting blocs in major cities for Democrats that still stand today. By attacking illegals, synonymous with Hispanic in most people’s mind, Republicans risk repeating the lesson we should have learned from the Irish and the Italians.

  • gator_hoo

    One link (which is posted twice) says that a protest vote wouldn’t have been solidly for Cain, to that I say “Exactly.”

    The other link says that one of the delegate liked Cain. I don’t dispute that, but it doesn’t address the issue of whether Romney “pauled” the straw poll.

    All I can go by is reports which suggested that he was planning to do that before the straw poll and the straw poll results. That along with the fact that it was completely representative of any polling at the time. Furthermore, at the same time, Mitt openly backed Cain.

    So there is more than rumor. Call it circumstantial evidence if you will, but you can win a case with circumstantial evidence.

  • watchandlearn0

    Unless we want Romney, Cain is our best choice.

    We need to put differences aside and coalesce around an intelligent businessman with amazing likeable appeal like Herman Cain. It’s the only way we’ll beat Romney and it’s the only way we’ll beat Obama.

  • Vaughn Harold

    Sure hope your wrong.

  • Scope

    the interview Rove did on Fox, I believe, long ago when he was asked about the bad blood between the Bushies and Rove? Rove whined that he and W went to bat for Perry to help him get elected as the Texas Agriculture Commissioner, and that if it wasn’t for them he would have lost that election? Rove went on and on about how much he and W did for Perry, and then he had the nerve to not lick their boots clean every time they got dirty. Perry came out a while ago and said that W was never a fiscal conservative when he was TX Gov. Perry has been against some of W’s policies while in the WH, mainly his reach across the aisle policies where he worked with Ted Kennedy with no child left behind etc. Bad boy Perry. They pushed KBH to beat Perry in the last Gov. race. They were not successful. Now they will not rest until they see Perry destroyed. As Perry said in one of the debates- Rove has been over the top for a long time, and that he is no longer in charge of Rove. The Bushies and Rove are very very vindictive, and they don’t care if they give the WH back to Obama, as long as Perry never gets the keys. Unfortunately, being a former president, you have a wide net to help you with your agenda, and can hide behind the fingers of destruction.

  • bzip

    Have you gone nuts? Some of us are very strong in a: anybody but Cain or Romney. You clearly haven’t been reading too well lately :-) .

  • gator_hoo

    But having worked in fundraising, I can tell you that one gift of $25 would be much more appreciated than 5 or probably even 6 gifts of $5, because each of those $5 gifts is going to cost money to process, whereas the $25 gift is only processed once.

    That said, please give when and how you feel like it, I only say this to let ou know how your money can be most effectively used.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Here, manvan, you forget how the Huckster’s support for McCain [and v.v.] in W. Va. killed-off the Mittster in ’08.

  • retire05

    I also remember Rove claiming credit for Perry becoming a Republican in 1989. But nothing is farther from the truth. Even before 1989, Perry, along with a number of young Texas House representitives, were considered what we now call “blue dogs.” They were fiscally, and socially conservative, but had (D)s behind their names since they came from Democrat districts.

    If anyone had an influence on Perry switching parties, it was Phil Graham, not Karl Rove. The jumping parties movement had been started in 1973 by John Connelly. Phil Graham jumped parties, and took a number of Democrats with him.

    What people looking at today’s political environment don’t understand is that in the ’80′s and ’90′s, Texas Dems were more conservative than today’s northeastern Republicans. It has just been the last 15-20 years that Texas Dems have moved hard left. They also don’t realize that in 1988, Al Gore was considered the most “conservative” of all the Dem candidates, and conservative Texas Dems could not support Dukakis who was taking the party even father left.

  • watchandlearn0

    I don’t know why you’re “Anybody but Cain”, but Perry doesn’t do well attacking Romney and Romney’s attacks hurt Perry.

    Perry doesn’t connect well. Cain does and Romney can’t attack Cain without coming off looking like a bad guy.

    Cain has a better chance to beat Romney.

  • Doc Holliday

    you are attributing to us things that are simply not true.

    If I have any criticism of Hispanic immigrants it is that they should know just because they come from a foreign country, doesn’t mean they are capable of opening a Hispanic restaurant lol. I mean seriously, Hispanic restaurants, Honduran, El Salvador, and faux Mexican all over the place and they all suck! There ought to be a law. If I only was back in Lone Star. uh, err, well I digress

    you are wrong when you say Republicans have something against Hispanic immigrants. That is really a terrible thing to say about your so called political allies. Many of us do believe in immigration policies that benefit THIS country and policies that are fair to ALL who want to become Americans, whether they be Mexican or Malaysian.

  • gekster

    What is it about him you like.

  • runner12

    that would come at him via Bachman, Santorum, et al. He assumed, as I did, that since the anti-Romney candidates shared more in common idealogically with him than Romney that they would all unite to take Romney out. Given the current state of this country under Obama and the need for a strong conservative in the WH, this was a logical assumption.

    Unfortunately, his fellow conservatives brought out the long knives and fast. He is a poor debator, but the massive attacks on him by the other candidates was unlike anything I have ever seen among people who share so many common beliefs. It was frankly disapointing and disheartening.

    If we end up with Romney as the nominee, it will be because the conservative candidates ate their own. When will we learn that this is not a winning strategy?

  • beach91

    Couldn’t have said it any better!

  • retire05

    involved with Perry. Rove was running the campaign of Tom Phillips, a Republican, for a seat on the Texas Supreme Court. It was after that race, which Phillips won, Rove went to work for G.W. Bush to try to convince him to run for governor. Bush declined to run in 1990. By then, Perry had switched parties.

    Rove likes to claim credit for things he has not done. He may be liked by the Fox News bunch, but he is not well liked in Texas. Conservatives here blame him for Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” spending habits,. Rove was also behind Bush’s push, as governor, for wind power farms in West Texas. LCRA built just one such farm, but it was so expensive to maintain that LCRA sold it to Florida Power and Light, as Florida needed a wind energy production source, thanks to Charlie Christ.

    Perry was solicitated to run for Ag Commissioner because he was young, fiesty and came from a solid farming background. But contrary to Rove’s claims, it wasn’t Rove doing the solicitating. It was other Republicans (especially House members) who knew that Perry could relate to farmers and their problems.

    Rove, who I have absolutely no use for, has two loyalties; the Bush’s and his own wallet. And I still think that he is in some way involved in the Romney campaign. If you noticed, Rove has attacked both Perry, and Cain, but never Romney. Last night on Fox, he was putting great emphasis on the current polls. But if anyone knows that these polls, so far out, are really moot, it is Rove. He was trying to make it sound like Romney is heading into the winner’s circle. He failed.

  • bzip

    I too agree to a point. I think the attacks by the anti-Romeny crowd were way over the line on Perry and I think it really threw him off.

    Bachmann completely lost with her attacks. It wasn’t becoming at all.

    That is not to say that I do think he has some own up to correct these faults of his. I just think some of these candidates have gone way over the line.

  • avagreen

    BTW, I’ve 55555 and some polish name (kalawoski or something like that) used at times.

    Seems to be at times of enthusiastic agreement……what does it mean?

  • avagreen

    between “crappy” and “more crappy”, and we should just put a pin on our collective noses and vote for the “less crappy” because that’s what’s going to win over the “more crappy”?

    Frankly, I’m not sure, but I think the level of “crappiness” would be the same on either choice.

    BTW, I don’t think for a minute that FOX is wanting Cain to be the winner. I think they are using him to split the vote so Romney can win. ;)

    But…….nice try.

  • bzip

    I keep asking a similar question.

    What substance does Cain have that we should vote for him?

    What substance does Cain that we should just accept him without any prior elected office experience? What record does Cain have that we can look back at and see what he would do and how he would govern?

    I think these are fair questions and ones that should be ask by everyone and certainly in the general election will be ask.

  • retire05

    because you do not seem to understand simple dynamics.

    Ask anyone to describe an illegal and see what you get. You will be told they are “Mexicans.” Yes, Hispanic and illegal are snyonymous in most people’s minds. No one says “Well, a lot of them are Chinese.”

    That is what these debates have told the Hispanics in this country; the Republicans hate illegals, want to electricute them on fences and therefore hate Hispanics.

    Just how do you think the Democrats are going to spin this next year?

  • gekster

    If you like or agree with a comment, you give it a rate of 5.

    kowalski is a reply to yourself.
    If you have an afterthought to one of your own comments, and would like to add to it, you give it a kowalski.

    It is named after a RS poster who would and still does reply to himself over and over again.
    I think I counted ten times, but I don’t know thw actual record of replying to himself is.

  • Scope

    by Romney now in order to help him to the WH. Rove will benefit handsomely from a president Romney. Romney will owe him big time. As EE posted here, way back when Perry was just getting in the race, the lobbyists and the inside the beltway R elites would all be out of jobs with a President Perry. With their actions throughout this campaign, that is doubly so.

  • watchandlearn0

    1. He meets my conservative litmus test

    2. I love that he represents the conservative American dream. He was extremely poor, endured racism in the South, worked hard, became successful and he has no chip on his shoulder. If he gets elected as President of the United States, he will have fully fulfilled the conservative vision of working hard, not having to be an elite and a citizen can become a president without first being integrated into the Washington system. Him becoming President validates all of our views and DESTROYS the liberal POV that poor people NEED help, that there is NO SUCH THING as “rugged individualism” or “pulling yourself up by your bootsraps” and prove to liberals that man can truly become anything he wants if he has the will power to do so.

    3. I love his business background. He had to make payroll. He got his hands dirty and raised businesses from the ground up. He understands the value of the private sector.

    4. He’s BRILLIANT. He has a math degree, a masters and worked as a LITERAL rocket scientist for the Navy. All we’ve ever had for President was lame lawyers, people in the public sector all their lives, liberal arts degrees and business degrees.

    5. He’s Reaganesque. He can make America feel good about itself again. He has that teflon ability where gaffes don’t stick to him and he laughs off personal attacks. He doesn’t resent people and he has a “sunny” personality which is necessary. I want to vote for someone I finally genuinely like who IS conservative.

    6. He has bold ideas. I love 9-9-9. It throws out the status quo tax code. Regardless if it’s “perfect” or not, it’ll be adjusted once he’s in office. He understands that bold, conservative, small government ideas are necessary in these hard times.

    I know, I’m gushing, but I love the man. I REALLY want him to win with all my heart because it validates everything conservatism (and my belief system) stands for.

  • bzip

    I’ll be honest – I would rather have Romney than a Cain and that is really bad.

    What has Cain done to attack and dismantle Romney? Perry took Romney to the woodshed, he showed the American people that Romney is a lying corrupt politician (oh I know you thought it was petty but what has Cain done except give inspiring speeches.

    Cain would be eaten alive in the general election, no elected experience no record, his 999 will tax 85% of the people…Cain gives us a 2nd term of Obama.

    Perry has the experience, the record to back up what he says and has a proven consistent track record of conservative polices and experience behind him.

    Perry has the plans need tio get the country back on its feet, a flat tax plan, entitlement reform, energy reform, grown, balance budgets, jobs and jobs .

    Oh, did I mention I was a Perry supporter :-) .

  • watchandlearn0

    Can someone point to me when he worked in the private sector?

  • Scope

    before Perry got in, where you would have sworn that each of the candidates would work hard to help the others win? It was like they were trying to all run as the nicest guys/gal you ever saw. It was so boring, I really did fall asleep before it was over.

    They all knew that Perry was getting in the race before he announced. Before he announced, he was going up in the polls, and threatening all of them. From the first debate he participated in, it was attack Perry. It was mainly Bachmann at first, with her Gardasil charges. Then Santorum joined in with the illegal immigration issue. Do you remember when he shouted over Perry, and wouldn’t even let him answer the question. The moderator didn’t stop Santorum for a good while.

    I think it was the second debate he was in where the moderator asked him about being attacked by the others, and he said he felt like the pinata. It has only gotten worse since then. Bachmann seems to have learned her lesson, but I doubt Santorum ever will. Santorum has no, zip, nada, chance at winning the nomination, but continues to make an arse out of himself in the debates. Unfortunately they don’t have to pay to participate in the debates, or the losers would already be gone.

  • concap

    If Romney gets the GOP nod, he will immediately reconvert to a moderate,
    or worse a dem lite and beat Obama. Leaving us with Obama lite.

  • gekster

    Instead of just repeating that cain is great.
    Why don’t you put that same passion into a diary,
    and tell us how you really feel. ;)

  • Common_Cents

    All these excuses for Perry are getting ridiculous.

    If he can’t battle this in the primary what do you think would happen in the general? He’ll get 10,000x the attacks daily by the vicious left wing media. I agree there is some media bias against him but he got more than his fair share of face time in debates to deliver a message.

    I like Perry and think he’d be a great President, but he’s gotta step up and play the game to get nominated and elected. Making excuses is not good, especially because the other candidates are bound by the same crappy debates.

    News that he may skip some debates is not good and will call for more piling on.

    He forgot to underpromise, and overdeliver. He came in to the race with way too much hype and that hurt. Perry needs to step up his game now.

  • avagreen

    I saw it once when someone replied to one of my posts (or so I thought) with a 555555 and a kowlaski, and I’ve seen that before when I thought I saw someone agreeing with someone else’s comment.

    Saw one time when a poster said to another poster (more or less) that it wasn’t time for a kowlaski “yet’. **confusing**

  • tjms

    will not ever rally around Mr. Cain. Would not do it for any candidate that came out and said they would support any of the other candidates but not Gov. Perry or would be open to being vice to anybody but Gov. Perry.

  • rightwingmom52

    First you say it’s admittedly rumors. Now it’s more than rumor and circumstantial evidence.

    The link I missed which is the most important one – from an actual delegate – is here.

    I’ll save you a little time and post the exchange:

    Scope: What gives me more confidence in this poll – at least for one states voters, is that I heard that no candidate was allowed to bus in supporters, and that no one was allowed to buy tickets for their supporters. I don?t know how they did that, but it seems to have worked. Although I know Perry gave a speech there this morning, I also noticed that Paul, Romney and Bachmann either hightailed it out of there quickly, and some decided to not really engage, and put much effort into the poll.

    Robert A. Hahn: They’re elected – ?The way they did that? is that all the voting delegates were elected officials. In Florida, even precinct committeemen (the shoeleather that walks the precinct) are elected to four-year terms. You can?t just walk in and become a voting delegate. To stuff the ballot box at the straw poll would take years of careful planning, of moving your people into open committeemen slots as they become available, and even then in the larger counties your guys might not be picked as delegates.

  • avagreen

    :) ;)

  • Doc Holliday

    I swore I would stop pointing out trolls, and I have not done so for over a year, but look at these people?

    You claim the Republican debates have told Hispanics we hate them? NO, I think you are really just nuts. I was going to say a lefty, but nuts is more applicable.

    Guess what, we can like Hispanics AND still have laws in this nation. You probably think I hate Hispanics too because I think immigration should be fair and open to everyone from every nation. I don’t think Mexico should dominate legal immigration as it has, it is not fair. In fact, the Mexican government aids illegals in their plans to break U.S. law, of course only the downtrodden, criminals, and those that are willing to pay.

    I want fair immigration that is based on helping this country, if you don’t like it, tough. And don’t tell me to stay out of my home state, thank your very much. And as we say in South Texas, Bonsoir.

  • streiff

    As the Texas legislature only meets in odd numbered years and members are only paid a per diem when it is in session, Perry had to have some source of income between his USAF RFRAD in 1977 until he was elected Ag Commissioner in 1990. Fortunately, there are plenty of resources out there to answer that question.

    As a warning, I am opposed to mopery and douchebaggery as a general rule. Your comment offends me because it is a seething, effervescing puddle of douchebaggery. Don’t let this happen again.

  • avagreen

    “A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial assumption such as a presumption of guilt.[1]

    Such questions are used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to be those that serve the questioner’s agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question “Have you stopped beating your wife?” Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife, and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[2] The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious.[2] Hence the same question may be loaded in one context, but not in the other. For example the previous question would not be loaded if it was asked during a trial in which the defendant has already admitted to beating his wife.[2]

    his fallacy can be confused with begging the question,[3] which offers a premise no more plausible than, and often just a restatement of, the conclusion.[4]

    The term “loaded question” is sometimes used to refer to loaded language that is phrased as a question. This type of question does not necessarily contain a fallacious presupposition, but rather this usage refers to the question having an unspoken and often emotive implication. For example, “Are you a murderer?” would be such a loaded question, as “murder” has a very negative connotation. Such a question may be asked merely to harass or upset the respondent with no intention of listening to their reply, or asked with the full expectation that the respondent will predictably deny it.”

  • gekster

    They go for the one that will be the weakest Gop candidate against the Dem.
    Remember how they fawned all over McCain,
    that was until he got the nomination.
    Then they went after him like a gaggle of cats on a carp.
    They will do the same thing again.
    Nothing changes.

  • bzip

    Lets run down your reasons, shall we:

    1. He meets my conservative litmus test:

    Maybe your litmus test but considering Cain seems to be for big gov’t I don’t think he passes the litmus test for me: Supported TARP, Doesn’t want a Fed Audit, his 999 plan throws in a new national sales tax that morphs into a VAT, it also raises taxes, he either doesn’t understand the constitution or is not well versed in it in regards to gun control, his pro-life-pro-choice is confusing to say the least, this list is ever growing

    2. I love that he represents the conservative American dream. He was extremely poor,…

    I didn’t think that was a requirement but okay a good story but I think Perry and growing up as a poor farmer could match that.

    4. He?s BRILLIANT.

    Again, this is subjective.

    5. He?s Reaganesque.

    Now that is plain silly. You do realize Reagan was a governor prior to running for President.

    6. He has bold ideas..

    As does Perry, who else talk about Flat Tax in their book (FedUp) long before Cain came in the race. Who has called and lad out entitlement reform, tax reform, energy reform. I think Perry wins hands down and even has a record of getting things done like this in Texas.

  • carolynr

    I was listening to Pat Cadell (or Caudell) and he said the Democrats were the party of corruption and the Republicans the Party of Stupid.
    I won’t address the former…the latter I will.

    Look at the chess game that Obama is playing and these idiots…and the people that vote in the straw polls forget facts and go for the wrapping on the present…not the present.

    Romney – look at how well Obama has positioned himself against him. Romneycare – he’ll say your staff advised me. Fat Cats – playing to the OWS crowd and some of the TPM will see that Romney with his mega wealth cannot identify with the average person. Cap and Trade, they both agree. Supreme Court Justices – well Romney will punt…but we will get the likes of Kennedy…the justice that will decide the fate of Obamacare if Romney is elected. Romney’s record on taxes is horrible…look up the big dig. Romney flipped on Kasich concerning the union vote…so we know where he will line up there. Besides…MA is not a right to work state. So, Obama defense – he’s a fat cat. With all the class warfare out there and inflation going up…Obama wins. Both of them share this also…they are both egomaniacs. Both of them lie. Both of them say whatever they need to say to get a vote…not principled. So…a vote for Romney is no different than a vote for Obama. Will Romney do anything about Illegals…Nope. In fact, he threw out the red herring about e-verify in the debates and that only checks employable people AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN HIRED. It DOES NOT GIVE STATUS OF CITIZENSHIP,. The other brilliant idea…and this was to get money from Trump…put a tariff on China. What is the result…Mitty…they put one on us. How much more money will we have to print to overcome the tarrif they put on us????

    Cain – 1st off, Romney will pick either Cain or Bachmann, probably Cain as VP. Hey..he can’t gaffe any worse than Biden. Why…because of the TPM and he is Black. I wonder when Blacks are going to run on their own instead of being “used” over and over again. Cain’s economic plan cannot be explained, was not explained, brings down GDP, constricts spending and is a disaster. Regular people…think of the third 9%…add it to your existing sales tax and DO THE MATH. Then there are the gaffes. Obama will eat him up. Cain won’t know what hit him. I like Herman…but not the material for prez. People see Herman as they do themselves…they know what is wrong with this country…but folks…with humility…how many people can hold down the job of President. He lacks experience. Can you hear it now..”.now Herman what can you add to the G20 conversation, seeing how you were flipping burgers”. Do you get it TPM? You can like the guy…but he can’t do the job.

    That leaves two people…Newt…and I am wary of his GOP ties and Perry…who embodies everything I believe in AND HE HAS A RECORD. I thought this was about JOBS. Nope…not the Party of Stupid…they would rather run the wrapping than the present inside.

  • gekster

    that had just showed up.
    It was still being debated just what that poster was at the time.
    Turns out it was not a troll, just someone with a grade school eucation.

  • Scope

    You and I have talked about this issue before. Yes, according to the last census, the hispanic population has more than doubled since 1990. They are the largest minority group in the country. It’s funny how so many republicans believe in the “big tent” strategy, and they know that the R must win over a large portion of independents. Yet when it comes to hispanics, the rhetoric is disgraceful. Many many legal hispanics want the border secure just as everyone else, but drop the electrified fence comments, joke or not. Everyone knows that there are more than just hispanics coming across the borders, but it was pointed that the signs would be in english and spanish only.

    If you look at some recent polling, I believe it was Gallup that asked the question- Would you support legislation where the children of illegal immigrants can be put on a path to citizenship if they join the military, or go to college. Something like 54% said they would support that legislation. When questioned about deporting the 12 million illegals in the country, it is pretty evenly split. Most know that it would be impossible to deport 12 million illegals. How many people do you think would favor taking a 15-18 year old, that has been in this country since very young children, and putting them on a bus or a plane, and plopping them off in Mexico? I hope not many.

  • libdestroyer

    Excellent points made!

  • libdestroyer

    1. your opinion
    2. your opinion
    3. yes the plan is good. (so you agree with me on this point)

    Please come at me with something substantive. This whole “so-and-so- is a shill for _____” is lame and yes, it’s WHINING.

    Perry isn’t doing well in the polls but it’s not because of the media and it’s not because of Cain. It’s because PERRY can’t debate well.

    I’m able to admit my candidate’s faults. You should try it.

  • joayn

    is right in many ways. However, I think the Cain/Fox relationship has been cultavated over a long period of time, well before the 2010 elections.

    I remember first being introduced to Cain on Neil Cavuto’s show to discuss the various Obama/Democrat congress’ economic shenanigans. And he was certainly qualified to do so. His story and background were impressive and it also helped that he was a black conservative criticizing a black president. I think people watching, were attracted to the whole package of Herman Cain. He was likeable, funny, smart, black, and highly critical of Obama. And he was right-on in explaining exactly why Obama/Democrat’s policies were job killers and bad for the country, plus he expressed complete support for the Tea Party movement. If I recall correctly, his appearances on Hannity and Greta increased, as well as his recognition factor to Fox’s audience.

    To keep it short here, I think he’s just developed great relationships with a lot of people and has built a solid conservative reputation at Fox. Now I don’t know exactly how it works to be a guest on their shows, but I would imagine that he was readily available back then (and now) to be on any Fox show that asked him. What host wouldn’t like that? And I really think that his being black was an important factor in all this (we’re not racist!).

    So I think the people at Fox have developed a natural affection and respect for him that has affected their objectivity in regards to Perry. Why only Perry? Because he’s Cain’s only solid competition.

    Now this get’s us to where I agree with you 100% When any discussion of Perry’s statements or policies are addressed, almost the entire conversation somehow gets turned into a Cain commercial, especially on Hannity. I would appreciate and expect a little more discussion on the topic at hand than just an knee-jerk comparison to Cain’s position. Overall, I’ve found that there’s a kind of subtle contempt and indifference directed towards anything Perry.

    When Perry’s economic plan was released, Eric Bolling’s show was the only Fox show that seriously discussed the plan in detail, had econ folks on his show to discuss the pros and cons (in other words, not Dick Morris or Karl Rove) of the plan, etc. Eric did a great job for anyone interested in the specifics of the plan. He actually said at the beginning of the show that he is a Perry supporter, as a disclaimer, and I appreciated that. No B.S.

    The problem with many at Fox seems to be that they don’t keep their personal feelings in check, and this is what I fault them for. Feelings are easily manipulated to report the news in a biased manner, as we all know. And I think Perry just didn’t “court” them and I think on some level, they resent it.

  • libdestroyer

    the media wasn’t ignoring Cain. They were attacking the hell out of 9-9-9 and pointing out his gaffes.

    You Perry people need to stop complaining about media treatment. It’s never going to change. What CAN change is Perry. He can go make good use of his multi-millions and get a debate coach, launch radio and tv ads etc…

    9-9-9 is the number 1 reason why Cain is where he is today.

  • libdestroyer

    that’s the right attitude. time to stop complaining.

  • rightwingmom52

    from gekster to a Perry supporter when a Cain supporter suggested the Perry supporter write a diary here

    You do what ever you want.
    You are not beholden to anyone on thiis site, just the posting rules.
    They are under the comment box.
    You can exercise free will, within said rules.
    The only thing I would have to say to you is to give backup and proof to any claims that you might make.
    And I give you a hardy welcome.
    (as for me, many ask who I support, and I won?t say, just because I don?t want to)

    Apparently the rules are different for Perry supporters and Cain supporters. (I’m a Cain first, Perry second, Newt third supporter, but that could still change.)

  • libdestroyer

    I guess we’ll just have to wait and see eh?

  • runner12

    While I expect the hyperbolic attacks by the Left-wing media, I do not expect it from candidates whose platforms closely resemble Perry’s. Sorry, but my benchmark for Conservative behavior is higher than that of the disingenuous and often deceptive media.

    As for media attacks, I expect them and I have not whined once about the coverage or lack of coverage for Perry. The media is the media and will always have their own agenda.

    Perry does need to step it up, there is no question. But any candidate (including Cain) would be in the same place he is in right now given the vicious attacks thrown at him by fellow conservative candidates. The question that remains for Perry is can he bounce back and regain traction. We will see in the next few weeks.

  • libdestroyer

    I disagree. I think the debates, while shallow on substance, demonstrate a candidate’s personality, confidence and clarity regarding policy.

  • avagreen

    I’ve been an avid politicker for years now and watched FOX daily hour-after-hour and noticed (as I’ve stated before) a definite shift in the way they covered news……..beginning about the time that Murdoch got into hot trouble. I think Ailes took over the reigns then.

    There has been a definite dumbing down of the news since then, and the anti-Obama comments are waaaaayyy down, with some of them even offering excuses for him.

    I thought I was imagining it **rubbing eyes with fists*** until I read the piece about Ailes and his “moderate” stance, hoping to replace MSNBC as it had gone so far left.

    I don’t watch FOX anymore, except for Cavuto (and even he’s tainted to a point) and the business network.

    Like some else said, I’m watching all the alphabet news to get a more fair picture of Perry. And, I’ve written FOX to say that much. Many of their mailboxes won’t accept mail any more. Hannity is completely unavailable , which causes me to lose much, much respect for him. Other mailboxes listed on their site are also unavailable. All you have to do is write an email to all of them and see which ones are returned.

    Pitiful. I expect fly-by-the-night phonies to operate this way in business and such, but now FOX has joined them.

    Bah! They were a great news outlet at one time. RIP.

  • txpat

    We can’t talk about Mr. Cain’s cancer that is in remission, but it is something that should be considered. He had stage 4 cancer found in 2006. it also had been in the liver as well as the colon. I was reading up on this last night. Others considering Cain should look at the chance for cancer returning. What I was reading that sometimes it is within 5 years.
    When we are all thinking about Mr. Cain and the kind of President he will be, we need to find out who would be on his list for Vice-President.
    He likes Romney and thinks highly of him, would he pick Romney as his VP?
    It is something to think about.
    I know that I will be jump on about this, but I think it is something no one is talking about.

  • libdestroyer

    Herman Cain is a conservative. I know there are things you Perry supporters don’t like. But to compare him to Romney is a huge stretch.

    If you end up with Romney and his policies then you have only yourselves to blame. Enjoy the Romney term.

  • txpat

    for anyone who thinks I am just being mean.
    Both of my parents died from Cancer. I have walked the walk with it in my family, and that is why I even bring it up.

  • Doc Holliday

    Are RS’ers supposed to say Republicans hate Hispanics? Is that just a new form of conservative? Leon Wolf = social conservatie, Doc Holliday = libertarian conservative, and I guess Retire05=Republicanshatemexicans-conservative.

    no worries Retire, I only point out what I see and read. I don’t get fired up like I used to, mainly I don’t care like I used to. Sure I care about defeating Obama, but it is hard to truly get angry or excited about the same ol’ “Romney sux”, “Perry sux”, “Cain sux” posts all day and night. Heck, I have caught up on my reading :)

    anyway, don’t be to offended or worried that I called you out. maybe three of my last twenty posts have had responses at all, I think you will be safe. BTW, I could offer some proof about liking Mexicans (as they are called in Texas, not Hispanics), it would be pretty convincing, it has to do with the boudoir (another Spanish term)

  • libdestroyer

    Forbes, when discussing Perry’s plan stated “it’s a response to Cain’s 9-9-9 plan”

    That is very telling. You know what that says?
    It says that CAIN FRAMED THE DEBATE. He showed leadership with a bold idea when Perry was saying “uh I’ll get you something soon…” Bad timing was Perry’s downfall.

    And those Cain ads went VIRAL. I’d say that’s hardly a bad thing.
    Ronald Reagan was considered a joker too. He was not to be taken seriously.

    And lastly, Obama is not a failure because of his inexperience.
    He’s a failure because of his CORE BELIEFS.

    Just vote Cain ok? Jeeze.

  • avagreen

    ………..and supported him wildly, with his picture and Lt. Col. West’s picture on my signature line on another forum.

    It wasn’t kewl to be supporting then, and I pushed like the devil to get him as a nominee.
    And, then I started doing research just to counteract the things I was hearing about him. That WAS an education, believe me. You can’t argue with facts in his own words and actions.

    Then, I began to notice the frivolous way (that rhyming speech that I hear often with blacks that makes good word rhythm but leaves one wondering what in the heck someone has just said) he had of speaking when confronted. I heard the same manner of speaking when listening to or attending black churches.

    It’s a cultural thing and nothing wrong with it, but not a good way to explain policies.

    All in all, I’ve lost respect for Cain and his ever changing policies. (Regarding my push for Lt. Col West, he has said he doesn’t think he has the experience to run right now.
    And, he’s had some unkind things to say about Cain’s policies, as well.)

    FOX definitely pushed and is pushing Cain.
    Lost respect for the majority of them, too.

  • libdestroyer

    waaaaaaah waaaaaaah!

  • retire05

    and Cain is Thompson. The dark horse in all these early results was McCain, who went on to win the nomination.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    “999″ quickly morphed into “909″ after even the most transient critiques.

  • libdestroyer

    exactly my sentiments. Time to stop making excuses and crying about media treatment.

    It is what it is and that’s all it is!

  • libdestroyer

    being part of the 6% of the country that supports Perry?

  • avagreen

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html#polls

  • libdestroyer

    that can be made in Cain’s defense:

    Perry is shrinking despite his great funding & organization
    Cain is surging despite is LACK of funding & organization

    Which of the two seems more “experienced” in politics?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    “Perry needs to be more positive in his debates, outline his vision with his policies that he has released. He needs to contrast his vision, the difference between him and Romney as well as Cain. If that means he goes negative to show the differences in Cain?s 999 plan or Romney and his flip-flopping I think that is good. BUT Perry does need to be more positive and present his own vision (he has a great one and a great record to show he can do it).”

    CORRECT!

    He must also be poised to knock-down The Newt from his loft.
    ____

    “I can agree with Perry about being selective in what debates he attends.”

    INCORRECT!

    He must attend them all, but remember how to apply what he said last week: “You get to ask the questions and I get to answer the questions I want to answer.”

  • paladin1

    what Perry supporters are doing. I contribute regularly to the campaign and “work” Governor Perry in person every chance I get. We also like to peruse Red State for info and to take the occasional “Texas potshot” at the opposition to keep them from getting too uppity! :)

  • Vaughn Harold

    nt

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …but is worth repeating, Cain rejecting Perry over the pseudo-rock issue was a disqualifier [for multiple reasons].

  • barry915barry

    to read through all of the hundreds of posted comments in a given day. Some of us simply occasionally post. However, if we find a particular poster whose general preferences or comments we do not care for, we simply do not read them going forward.

    If retire05 really is a troll, or unreasonably characterizing Republicans and/or conservatives as a whole in an inaccurate manner, he/she will eventually feel the wrath of the entire RedState community. Or, more so, that of the moderators. Barry.

  • Doc Holliday

    I don’t even care anymore. If I come here and read something I think warrants a response, I will respond the only way I know how, with the truth and my views on the issue. I found what the poster said to be worse than offensive, I found it to be wrong. I have no desire for anyone to be banned, and I certainly can not facilitate it. However, I am surprised others let these comments go, but freak out if a ROMBOT is criticizing a PERRYBOT etc.

  • rightwingmom52

    You’ve summed up my thoughts exactly.

  • joayn

    paticipating in the debates. I’ve been thinking out the strategy behind this and I find it a very interesting scenerio. If Perry removed himself from a debate, what do you think would happen?

    Put the critcism of him not particpating aside and think about what would happen at the actual debate. With Perry not there, how would the other candidates and the host of the debate handle his absence? I certainly think they wouldn’t be spending their entire time talking about Perry. The host or moderator would have to focus on the candidates on the stage and not too much about the absence of Perry.

    Without Perry, would it be boring? Would everyone be forced to beat up on someone else? Would Mitt be forced to go after Cain? It’s an interesting idea. What do you think?

  • lucasblack

    In some ways, Perry and Thompson are very similar. They both came in as the ‘Great Right Hope’ and shot to the top of the polls as people projected all of their wishes on them. Thompson collapsed because he was lazy and it showed. Perry’s collapse I think is actually worse because he should have been a stronger candidate. Clearly, he’s not lazy, but I think in his case it was a sense of arrogance and entitlement. And his team does not seem to know how to campaign at a national level. I don’t see Perry coming back, but he might be able to damage Romney a great deal and possibly causing someone else to get the nomination. Perry’s negatives within the GOP are now so high, I just don’t know how he turns that around.

  • lucasblack

    Actually, I am more impressed with Gary Johnson’s record than Perry’s and that poor guy got no airtime at all!

  • Common_Cents

    If Perry skips debates that others attend it will be non-stop slams against him as weak. The media are already salivating at the notion as many are reporting on it today. It’ll be akin to the nonstop “bush is dumb” attacks. Will be very tough to overcome.

    Where was Perry(or any other candidate) to back up Gingrich when Gingrich called out the mods/media in a couple debates?

    He just does not have enough clout to combat going solo this at this time. I think at least the top 4 candidates must be in lock step on boycotting any dumb lame stream media gotcha debate.

    Does anyone know who from the GOP sets these up and decides? They should be fired.

    I get it that people from TX know Perry. The rest of the nation doesn’t. His polling has sunk because he didn’t live up to the hype in the debates. The rest of the country must be sold by Perry, not by TX supporters telling everyone they are dumb not to support Perry. That is a big turn off.

    All the talk about Perry playing rope a dope, then we get word he might skip debates? I’m waiting for him to deliver and start punching back w/ solid campaigning.

    Dismissing the importance of debates(whether the format sucks or not) is to be in denial.

  • lucasblack

    I don’t know why they don’t just officially change the name of the site to RoemerState and be done with it.

  • barry915barry

    That is why you called out retire05. Other RedStaters (especially regulars) will recognize when someone such as yourself brings this type of thing to our attention. Perhaps “05″ is simply having a bad hair day and will respond accordingly. If not, there is no need for the rest of us to pile on. He will have already shown his true colors and will be regarded and treated accordingly the next time he posts in a similar manner. Barry.

  • avagreen

    This is an obvious issue and one that the adoring MSM is not mentioning.

    Of course, the reason is obvious. Can’t have a hammer to use against the anvil if the hammer is defective.

  • nepanyrush

    Perry has gotten a lot of media exposure since the moment he threw his hat in the ring, and even before. In the debates, he has been placed at the center with Romney, not on the fringes. If people have gone from giving Perry high approval ratings to negative approval ratings, it is not that some networks are promoting rival candidates, but a problem with the Perry campaign itself. I myself was one of those caught up in the Perry momentum when he announced, only to find that he fell dismally short of expectations when I watched the debates.

    It is time for the Perry camp to stop whinning, like when Perry did when he said he has ony been at this for 8 weeks and Romney for 6 years, or like Perry’s wife did when she gave the impression that it was because they were so Christian. (Tell that last one to Romeny) If Perry is going to turn this around, he is going to have to better as a candidate and better in the debates — which were his downfall.

  • Doc Holliday

    .

  • joayn

    agree that this whole shebang is his to lose. Of course, there are plenty of folks that are eager to help him along in that respect, but he does have to deal with it and figure out a way to turn his negatives around.

  • txpat

    Can bring this up without being seen as evil.
    Best they can do is get some reporter to write about it without the candidate being part of it.
    Hopefully it will bring attention to it bring out in the open to get some feed back from Mr. Cain.

  • txpat

    Romney poll numbers dropped some as did Perry.
    Them beating each other only hurt each other.
    I think Perry will need to be positive next debate, don’t step off in the mud, and like EE he needs to talk more about America and less about Texas.
    Even though I enjoyed watching Mitty bloody.

  • gekster

    The context of that is I was under the impresion of at the time of the posting was someone was almost demanding that the person write a diary to prove in a way thier conservative bona fidis.
    It was in that context that I said that she could do what she wanted, and owed no one an explanation for anything about themselves.
    I had no idea at that time just who that person was supporting.

    This person listed an almost diary lenght response,
    (I have seen far shorter diaries) and the suggestion was to put thier words of support in a diary, as opposed to just repeated postings of ‘Cain is great”.

    Give me a hint, where was I saying different rules for different candidates.
    If I did that, please show me and I will correct myself, as in me.
    I also know I do have to be clearer sometimes to avoid misunderstandings
    and confusion with my posts, but sometimes it just isn’t in me.

  • lineholder

    .

  • jonerik

    So what’s the deal with so many of the leading Conservative voices who support Romney? Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, looks like Hannity and others? And Fox, by and large, does seem to have it in for Perry for whatever reason.

  • jonerik

    Perry could have weathered his debate performances and the occasional verbal gaffe. But, he said that business about not having a heart, and that seemed aimed directly at Conservatives. His candidacy has gone downhill ever since. I don’t know how he recovers from that.

    I’m going to stick with him though because he has demonstrated by character and deed that he can get the job done that needs getting done in Washington. And, he’s really the only one of the Candidates that has demonstrated this.

  • cbartlett

    nt

  • lineholder

    error in judgment on that one. They attempted to quantify this race as being ONLY “Mitt versus anti-Mitt” without taking into consideration that this is a very anti-government, anti-politician, anti-status quo environment that exists amongst the general public.

  • cbartlett

    The Perry Energy Plan has the ability to develop jobs and spur the economy immediately. All of the economic plans will take time (some more than others) to implement and will require working with Congress. Right now, Congress still has a lot of Dems and RINOs that will make that path difficult. Perry has experience working with a large legislature in Texas. I am very concerned that Cain has no such experience and will have a large learning curve to make getting over that hump take even longer. Yes – Perry has been disappointing in the debates so far with so many candidates on the stage. BUT there are a lot of us who know him who believe he would be able to destroy Obama in a one-on-one. True conservatism will win any battle over the disgusting way the Obama administration has treated this country.

  • cbartlett

    Unbelievable as it sounds, we actually have a few people here in Texas and we have yet to make a REAL decision in a primary. We HAD to hold our noses and vote for McCain because he was the only one left by the time our primary came around. I don’t understand this “primary date setting” stuff. Did our founding fathers set this staggered system up from the beginning to favor a handful of states? If they did, they had no idea how technology was going to affect all of this. In my lifetime, I don’t think there has been a Presidential election yet that California voters didn’t know who had been declared the winner before they even closed their polls. (except maybe one that got hung up with Florida’s shenanigans) I wish people like Pat Buchanan would just keep their mouth shut. There are so many uneducated, uninformed people out there that believe absolutely everything they hear like that and remember – they can all vote!

  • cbartlett

    7. Perry has actual experience working with a legislature. I can see Cain getting absolutely lost in the Washington DC realm – he has zero experience in the legislative process. And all of his proposals so far require legislative committment to make them work.

    Just saying….

  • gator_hoo

    I don’t have any solid points to combat you facts, so I will just claim that you are whining.

    Nice try, tho.

  • cbartlett

    His health was the first thing my mother (in her 70′s) brought up in a discussion of candidates several weeks ago. She was worried about him getting sick enough during a 4-year term to require treatments that could seriously sideline him. Wonder if there are more older people that are sensitive to this issue that are just not saying anything because it’s not PC?

  • timkellogg

    that he wants serious reform and is willing to negotiate with others who also want serious reform to get the best possible solution.

  • Michael Dugas

    are eligible to pay in state tuition rates is stupid. It’s not like Texas tax payers are paying the tuition. If that’s what you believe then you are wrong. Also that legislation had major support from both party’s in Texas. He dealt with a touchy situation in an appropriate manor with out nailing tax payers for the bill. Also they potential students had to meet a whole list of criteria before even being able to pay the in state rate.
    Compare the handling of that issue with Mittens handling of healthcare in Michigan. It’s bad enough his plan and advisers were used by Obama to create the monstrosity that is Obama Care but look what Romney Care did to the cost of health care in that state.
    So would you rather have a problem solver with a track record of dealing with issues like education, tort reform and job creation that reflects a much more acceptable conservative approach ala Perry? Or would you rather have a candidate who uses big government solutions with the cost laid on the back of the tax payers.

  • Carol Tarasewicz

    I cannot agree with you more carolynr! 5555!
    I see Romney/Cain doing same thing that McCain & Huck did to Romney in 2007-2008.

    I like Perry’s energy and flat tax plan. Mark Levin also liked his tax plan. The radio show hosts do not want to endorse anyone.
    I despise Romney for having Career Politican website, he’s made a career of running for office but won only one time. I expected better from him not a website to attack Perry.

  • gator_hoo

    Although I would say that a candidate who has the influence to get Florida to move it’s primary up, as Romney did, could still have the influence to pull it off.

  • gator_hoo

    I have asked this questio a number of times here, and I have never gotten an answer.

    Being against making a government issue of abortion (which is his latest of many positions on the subject) is not conservative.

    Being for subsidizing bad local government policies, as Cain does with empowerment zones, is not conservative.

    Being against incorporation of the Second Amendment to the states, is not conservative.

    Having an instinct which tells you it is okay to negotiate with terrorists is not conservative.

    Having so little interest in Israel that you do not know what the right of return means is not conservative.

    Lying about your past statements regarding whether the fed should be audited is not conservative.

    Adding a national VAT tax AND a national sales tax is not conservative.

    Being for TARP is not conservative.

    So, yes, Cain must be the true conservative in the race, all positions to the contrary aside.

  • gator_hoo

    So, if Romney is the nominee you either get Obama, or Obama lite. How does that contrast with what the media would want?

  • gator_hoo

    So did “Friday.”. Guess that means Rebecca Black should get my vote for President.

  • bzip

    Don’t feel bad. I haven’t been able to get any answers to my questions regarding the substance behind Cain.

  • Scope

    Cain said in an interview that he was concentrating on trying to pronounce Natanyahu’s name properly. He said he was currently reading a book on Israel.

    It is a fact that Cain’s early faux paus have now been erased from any current comments on Cain. It’s almost as though he never said what he said, according to the media, especially Fox.

  • Scope

    but by most accounts, it wasn’t in a good way. It was much more in a mocking way. In fact. his ad rates among the 10 most stupid ads in political history.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    –no.text–

  • Scope

    Didn’t Romney send out some kind of info. to the Fla. residents saying that Perry wanted to take away their SS? Wasn’t Romney derided for playing the leftist game of fear mongering?

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    his prospects by putting a ceiling on his possible vote. There a major reason that I only still barely lean to Cain. I hope he ups his game, but I also want Perry to find the formula (which I think would be to go positive on what he wants to do and contrast that with RomneyCare!) to be in the finals. He has a great record and his economic plan is superb. He is basically a near perfect conservative on the issues and that matters most.

  • Scope

    are you being sarcastic? There are no perfect conservatives and you dang well know it.

  • gekster

  • gator_hoo

    You know I respect you, but you are gonna have to do better than that.

    “He has a great record.” So, no record is a great record?

    “He is a perfect conservative on the issues that matter most.” I gave you a host of examples of Cain taking positions that most conservatives would not consider conservative, and on some key issues. You’re gonna have to do better than make a summary statement.

  • lineholder

    I think he was talking about Perry when he said “he has a great record” and “he is a perfect conservative on the issues that matter most”

    The reference to personage changed when he started talking about Perry finding his “formula”.

  • politicalgal1

    because this week I got 3 emails from Herman (one from Dick Morris) asking for contributions. As I am listening to my favorite el-Rushbo program this week, I have to listen to a pizza-like commercial from Cain asking me for $9.99 or $999. Then tonight, I get a robo call from Herman asking for money. The only reason I answered the toll-free call is that I thought I might actually be receiving a call from a pollster and that I might be one of the lucky 350 persons being used in the national polls.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    urbation. They have missed all my positive comments in previous columns that also included a major criticism of Perry. Its black or white to them., no pun intended.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    And it is justified. He has been a reliable conservative for over 11 years and has done a great job in Texas.

  • gator_hoo

    I thought that you were going to address my post as to why Cain is a conservative, but rather you made a different point.

    As to hand jockeying, I am going to concede your expertise.

  • lineholder

    Cain has held his own in fundraising department to the tune of $1million per week.

  • onemovoter

    Question was: Do you think Herman Cain will win the GOP nomination?

    It had gone around a lot because there were a total of over 20k who answered.

    The results: about 33% said yes, and 67% said no. So even though there is excitement and good polling of Herman Cain, the expectation of him winning isn’t, which isn’t a good sign. That tends to show a shallow level of support.

  • lineholder

    Back during the campaign of 2008, he gave many speeches with no teleprompter and received an extremely positive response to them.

    There’s are solid reasons for the comparisons between Saruman (in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings) and Obama. Don’t underestimate that potential.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    nt

  • rightwingmom52

    I understand you were just being a “good neighbor” and giving advice both here and during the other exchange. You got caught up in the middle of the other exchange, and I misread your intent. Please accept my sincerest apologies for reading snark in your comment when none was there.

  • gekster

    I know how it can be when there are so manu comments and so little time.
    I had a feeling that it was just misread,
    but I do have a habit of not being clear sometimes.

    And you’re a Mom, you don’t ever need to apologize to me,

  • izoneguy
  • izoneguy

    as they run for President.

  • thisisme7

    and apply it to yourself. Done.