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Republican Chaos

By: Neil Stevens (Diary)  |  November 14th, 2011 at 02:00 PM  | 

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Chaos

Chaos: Mathematically, we see it when small changes to the inputs of a function produce large, wild changes to the outputs. I believe we’re seeing that now in the GOP primary race, as a weakened Herman Cain and a strengthened Newt Gingrich, combined with a steady Mitt Romney and a resilient Rick Perry, turn it into a four cornered brawl.

Two new polls from late last week: First, ORC International for CNN polled 480 Republicans and Independent leaning Republican RVs, mobile and landlines, MoE 4.5. Ending the same day was The Tarrance Group and Lake Research Partners for Politico/George Washington polled 1,036 likely voters for an MoE of 3.1. Both polls hit mobiles and landlines.

A third poll has come out that ended over the weekend, later than those two in fact. PPP polled 576 primary voters, MoE 4.1. The poll was automated, which I believe means legally mobiles were excluded.

As a friend put it to me as he reacted to these results, it’s three polls and three leaders. That’s chaos. Polls are supposed to confirm each other, not completely contradict each other and pick different winners. But that’s what they’re doing. CNN gives Mitt Romney the lead at 24 to Newt Gingrich’s 22, Herman Cain’s 14, and Rick Perry’s 12. Cain leads the Politico poll at 27, to Romney’s 25, with Gingrich and Perry tied for third at 14. PPP gives Gingrich his first lead at 28 to Cain’s 25, Romney’s 18, and Perry’s 6 (six).

That’s just nuts. You can’t have three polls having three leaders. If we do an Olympic-style Medal count (three points for gold, two for silver, one for bronze) Gingrich tallies 6 points, Romney 6, Cain 6, and Perry 1. That’s a three way tie, and more than anything else, that tie is probably keeping Perry in the hunt.

So it may be bad news for Perry of all people that Gingrich’s numbers look unsustainable. CNN has him at +40 net favorability, and PPP has him at +45. The vetting will happen, the opposition will act, and that number will not last. As with Cain and Perry before him, Gingrich will take a beating.

If Cain gets back what Gingrich loses, I think Perry may be gone for good. If Perry gets some of it… watch out.

Crossposted from Unlikely Voter

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COMMENTS

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  • acat

    This isn’t “chaos”, it just looks a heck of a lot like chaos. It’s a feature.

    Mew

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It’ll work like designed when by February things are clarified. :)

  • earlgrey

    nt.

  • Tbone

    “”Cain is struggling with the charges of sexual harassment, and while most Republicans tend to dismiss those charges, roughly four in 10 Republicans think this is a serious matter and tend to believe the women who made those charges,” CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said.

    The survey indicates that only a bare majority of Republicans tend to believe Cain, and more than a third say he should end his presidential campaign. Among the general public, Cain has a bigger credibility problem – 50% of all Americans say they tend to believe the women and only a third say they believe Cain.”

    If you have a third of Republicans saying he should get out and 50% of Americans think he is a liar, you can stick a fork in him.

    Perry will recover from his flub. Cain will not recover from his lying.

  • acat

    After that, it’ll run on rails.

    Mew

    (note – no, cat is not on the Cain Train)

  • paladin1

    Mr. Stevens. I think this supports the common view so far that the polls are unreliable at this stage and that the primary situation is very fluid. Until votes are cast and candidates drop out, fade, or rise, it is very unstable. I am not too concerned about support moving back to Cain from Gingrich however. I think the attacks on him will continue as Gloria Alred stated very coyly in a recent televised interview with Geraldo on Fox News, that there was more to come on the Cain story. I think that his current troubles plus his feeble foreign policy debate will be more than enough to push many red meat conservatives from the Cain camp over to the Perry camp. There is still a current of distrust regarding the Speaker’s past and his “off the reservation” big government ideas of the past (and which still seem to crop up occasionally) to suit many conservatives. We also have to see if the Speaker can hold on to his current support in the face of the attacks. His political savvy and excellent extemporaneous speaking ability will help in this area, but I think his loss of support,if any, will also move to Perry as long as he continues to perform well.

    I believe that your last line, ” If Perry gets some of it? watch out.” will ultimately be correct.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m sick of using the same headshots, and this post title lent itself to something different. Glad it’s noticed. :)

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    The polling is unreliable IF the primary situation is very fluid.

    It’s just not been this fluid. :)

  • izoneguy
  • paladin1

    Change is noted and agreed to.

  • acat

    This cat would bet Cain’s support will dry up following a day of sitting down for a mostly amicable meal and polite discussion.

    Even if politics and religion are off limits, it’s hard to ignore that 50% of the family (statistical average) is female and could have been victimized by a skeevy pervy at the office.

    The burden of proof in a court of law may work to exonerate Cain, but the court of public opinion works differently. It’s sad that Cain is not who he said he was, but it is better that we know this Thanksgiving rather than next….

    Mew

  • Common_Cents

    Not good for Cain.

  • pttx333

    c

  • Change Jar Conservative

    Given split primary totals under the new rules, we could go to the convention without a nominee.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • acat

    Wikipedia says it’s in Florida starting Aug. 27th…

    On the upside, the inevitable protestors won’t freeze to death, although they may develop heatstroke.

    On the downside, they’ll smell worse than usual.

    Mew

  • changeforrickperry

    Two foreign policy debates in a row is enough to make you feel sorry for Cain.
    ______________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • Ausonius

    By February, if this inability of Romney to go beyond one-fourth of primary voters, coupled with continued skepticism of Perry, Cain, and Gingrich, remains the same, then the chaos must lead to someone – possibly unexpected – suddenly appearing in the national consciouslness and making people, think: (S)He is the one we want!”

    Who could it be ? Who knows? I have mentioned assorted names earlier, in other topics (McCotter, DeMint,)

    But perhaps someone dynamic outside of politics will appear favorable: Steve Wynn, David Koch, John Mackey, (ex-politician) J.C. Watts, Amilya Anonetti, etc.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Another name could enter and do well.. if that name could credibly build organization rapidly.

    That’s a very tall order.

  • federalfarmer1

    And his moderate republican enemies who thought Newts conservatism and big ideas were risking republican control.

    I think his image only improves as people take a close look and see the oft referenced baggage isn’t that heavy.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    What I mean (and we’ve talked about this before) is that if we take the MOE and try to create overlapping ranges then these three polls don’t fit together.

    Romney and Gingrich have a fit, but Cain and Perry don’t.

    Romney should be:
    19.5 to 24.5 based on the first poll, # +/- MOE
    21.9 to 28.1 based on the second poll
    13.9 to 22.1 based on the third poll
    So we can say that Romney is in the 21.9 to 22.1 range and it fits all three polls.

    Newt fits all three with a 23.9 to 25.1 range

    You can’t construct a range for Cain / Perry that fits both of them.

    So Perry and Cain are perhaps in flux?

    Still just fun and games as the keys right now are money, endorsements, and what Iowans think.

    ==============
    If we simply took the median number between the three polls (not saying it’s scientific) then we’d get:

    Cain 25
    Romney 24
    Newt 22
    Perry 12

    That seems like a likely snapshot as of this past weekend.

  • paladin1

    just announced Allred’s next line of attack on Cain by introducing her ex and quoting him regarding Bialek’s reactions. I see very little improvement for Cain with continuing developments such as this. I believe Perry will get some benefit from Cain’s continued loss of support.

  • tnguy

    … that people would go back to Gingrich. He had his time in power and totally botched it, IMO.

    If I did vote for him in the general, I’d have to hold my nose – tightly – to do so. I’ve not yet reconciled in my mind that I can actually do that.

  • easyb

    This is what he signed up for. If he can’t handle two foreign policy debates in a row, then he’s not ready.

  • easyb

    Don’t we have our candidates, legally speaking? In other words, aren’t the deadlines past for new candidates to file in each of the states?

  • Scope

    to me that much of Cain’s former support is now going to Gringrich. If those leaving Cain is because of the sexual harassment allegations, why are they migrating to Newt with his marriage history of infidelity with the former two wives, and after they both got sick.

    I agree Neil that when Newt gets vetted by the national media, he will be Newtered but good, and will drop back down again. He also doesn’t have the money, or organization to carry him very far.

    The former Cain, now Newt supporters will not drift back to Cain, who continues to screw up the harassment damage control with now, 2 weeks later, bring in his wife to stand by her man, and reminding everyone of the issue once again. Loretta Lynn has been singing it today with Gloria now sitting on the same page as Hillary & Love Potion No.9′s wife. Not good, and it isn’t going to stop.

  • conservativeparrothead

    That Newt became somewhat of a caricature figure. Also, being Speaker of the House is not an easy task, means that you are overseeing a large majority, often times the “swing” districts that put you in that majority are not always aligned politically with your base, so its a tough balancing act.

    I think when you look back at the record however, I doubt anyone could argue it was maybe the best our government has run:

    Unemployment in the 4% range, balanced budget with surplus and a major entitlement reform in welfare.

    So what are most conservatives and for that matter Independents worried about these days:
    1. Jobs 2. Spending 3. Entitlement future and reform

    Did it get any better than his time as speaker?

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …although my conclusion is ultimately comparable.

    1. How do we know matters will have been “clarified” by February? Presumably, by then, the bit-players will have exhausted their resources [$ and operational], yielding Mitt, Rick and The Newt. [Without sounding gratuitous, it's been "silly-season" polling that has launched/propelled Cain, amplified by the polite MSM/LSM/ELM that perceives his presence as a troll-force that serves to subvert serious-Republicans from congealing.] But could one still envision a brokered-convention?

    2. Let’s apply this lengthy definition of the term “chaos”:

    “Chaos theory is a field of study in mathematics, with applications in several disciplines including physics, economics, biology, and philosophy. Chaos theory studies the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions, an effect which is popularly referred to as the butterfly effect. Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for chaotic systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general.[1] This happens even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behavior is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved.[2] In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable.[3][4] This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

    What you have is a “deterministic” universe that remains in-flux, demonstrating the tendency to amplify minor news-of-the-day tidbits. Once it is recognized that this dynamic yields minimal predictability, you have the formula being employed by those in the media who continue to attract the eyeballs of the public.

    [to be continued]

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    But yes… it’s chaotic right now.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    At least it is in my mind.

    I’m not in favor of divorce, but it’s not a criminal act.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    although time is increasingly tight

  • Scope

    It’s the fact that he cheated on both first wives before leaving them to marry the next one. A big part of the story that will also come out is that Newt was bashing and trashing Clinton for the Lewinski scandal, all while cheating on wife number two in the same time period.

  • juumanistra

    But the filing deadlines have passed for New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Florida, I believe.

    As Neil said, it’s possible someone could throw their hat in. But they’d need truly astonishing levels of name recognition and organization to conduct an insurgent write-in campaign on the scale being talked about. I’m not sure any of the also-rans who might reconsider have sufficient quantities of both to make it worth their while to run.

    If things remain fluid up into the Iowa caucuses, I suspect the real winner ends up being John Huntsman. Because the caucuses are what they are, is it really so unfathomable that Iowans might choose the affable guy with an impressive resume who’ll, more likely than not, have avoided the savage vetting afforded to all of the other Anti-Romney centerpieces? Given how this primary’s gone, it’s certainly not the least implausible thing that could happen.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    So that’s an obstacle. Not an insurmountable one, but in theory it might be doable if a candidate is very strong.

    I don’t know if it’s doable in practice, though.

  • Scope

    has a money problem, and a staffing problem the last I heard. He said that he has been getting more donations since his debate performances, and his rising in the polls. I would think that it is a little late to raise the funds that will be necessary to go very far. I don’t see him winning Iowa, although he does support ethanol subsidies, but his social problems will keep him from gaining the important block of Iowa evangelicals. He won’t win NH. I concede NH to Mittens. The first chance he would have is SC, and by then it is already to late.

  • easyb

    High chance of failure. Anyone with a big name is a “brand.” Coming in this late, with long odds, seems like a risk of tarnishing their brand. Doubt anyone will do it.

  • redmymind

    I’m a recovering philosophy major who thought he was done with pondering the finer points of free will, determinism, chaos, and the like! Glad to see there are folks here who have the actual smarts and brain-power to take a stab at making sense of it all in the context of this election. More power to you! Hee, hee, hee!!!

  • http://wadingacross.wordpress.com logus

    around New Year, getting ready to go into Iowa, a comparison of the polls as they stand for the candidates in 2012 with polls for candidates going into the primaries in 08, 00, 96 and 92.

    You might already be planning such a thing.

    I would be interested to see if the polls going into Iowa now and in years past offer any sound predictions as to the eventual nominee.

    If I remember an article I read recently, evidently the front runner going into Iowa doesn’t always win either Iowa or New Hampshire, much more the nomination. Rather, a “dark horse” or someone polling a bit further back in the pack is able to surprisingly place in Iowa and New Hampshire (within the top two or three of both IA and NH) and that the one who places such in both will most probably be the nominee.

    If Romney manages to stay in first or second, according to the above line of thought, he’ll not win. If he sinks back farther, he may wind up being a “counter” dark-horse!

    I cannot recall the exact article. I’m no doubt somewhat incorrect in my recollection. However, such an analysis of polling data compared to several prior primary seasons would be interesting I think in the enjoyable game of prognosticating the primaries.

    Thanks

  • Whacker77

    I’m glad to see most are now finally realizing what some of us feared months ago. Because our “A Team” of candidates chose not to run, we were left with the “D Team” and I don’t feel I’m exaggerating. Now, we find ourselves in the awful position of trying to excuse Cain’s total lack of foreign policy knowledge or Newt’s awful past as a person and as a GOP leader.

    I think the primary is in terrible shape. Despite not knowing foreign policy and having little more to say than 999, Cain could well win Iowa and then spring to a victory in South Carolina. I know he has his supporters, but the man’s never held any elective office and it is showing. His advisors go on TV and make baseless claims and Cain has repeatedly changed his story on the harrassment claims.

    I’m not even going to discuss Newt. The idea some might want him as a nominee is just out of this world. Still, The fact Newt is rising shows how desperate the situation is. People are desperately looking for the anti-Mitt, but there isn’t a credible one. Nominating Newt, Cain, or Bachmann is tantamount to pouring gasoline on ourselves and lighting a match.

    Reluctantly, I’ve decided to support Romney because he’s the only one who can win a national election against Obama. The others simply can’t. Still, what happens if we go Christine O’Donnell and Mitt gets knocked out early? Would the Party and voters really be comfortable with Cain or Newt as a nominee? I could actually see a Mitt flameout producing a white knight who uses Florida as a springboard.

  • http://wadingacross.wordpress.com logus

    only I can’t recall the exact source link and I’m probably a bit wrong in my recollection.

    Anyhow, even if Newt cannot win Iowa or New Hampshire, if he were to come in second or third in both states, I think he would stay in the race, certainly until Florida.

    The eventual nominee doesn’t have to win both Iowa or New Hampshire, but they do need to place in the top three of both states. That makes sense of course.

    Did anyone going into Iowa think that John McCain was going to get the nomination? If I remember correctly, most people thought it would be Huckabee or Romney, and of course the three battled it out for much of the primaries.

    We could see such a similar show next year, with Romney dancing with one or two partners all the way to May. The question then is, who’ll survive the first round (Iowa and New Hampshire) and who’ll survive the second round (South Caroline and Florida)?

    As an aside, I suspect we’ll see a repeat of 08 with Paul standing on the side thinking that just because he’s at the dance, he’s in it, not willing to bow out until May when it was obvious in January.

    All that said, if Ron Paul does well thru January, Hell must be freezing over!

  • texabama

    I totally agree with you. Not to mention (and this is petty of me) I don’t know if I can stand having a President who reminds me of a gerbil.

  • red_oakster

    this is a field where Romney appears to have a ceiling and where neither Cain nor Perry need withdraw early given their flush war chests. Now that the Newtster is increasing his support, the chances for an inconclusive race through Nevada have gone up considerably.

    I can live with a convention full of conservative delegates hashing this out in August (although Florida is August suggests a political hurricaine rather than chaos).

  • clintonformccain

    The state of the Republican nominating process is a real mess and one that reflects poorly on the party.

  • juumanistra

    O’Donnell’s problem was that she had no redeeming qualities as a candidate. Zero. None. Nil. Nada. Her only qualifications for being the Republican standard-bearer were that she wasn’t Mike Castle and she was willing to run against him. Regardless of what you think about Herman Cain, he’s got long stints in corporate America and a tax overhaul plan he’s willing to sell. Newt’s a walking policy encyclopedia and former Speaker of the House. John Huntsman’s a two-term former governor of a medium-sized state and former ambassador to an important power. Ron Paul’s an eleven-term Congressman; Michele Bachmann’s only got three terms in the U.S. House, but also logged a not-insignificant amount of time in the Minnesota state house. Gary Johnson was a two-term governor of a medium-sized state. Even Buddy Roemer is a former governor and Congressman.

    While I appreciate the hyperbole, I feel obliged to come out swining against misuses of Christine O’Donnell’s candidacy. If Mitt does flameout, it’ll be to someone with at least some credible experience in life or government. Which is to say, a whole heck of a lot more than Christine O’Donnell ever possessed.

  • izoneguy

    Won’t survive a humid summer day

  • lucasblack

    Cain’s support is going to Gingrich, not Perry. With the polls that show a second choice, far more of his supporters prefer Newt or even Romney to Perry. Until Perry brings down his sky-high negatives, he won’t get significant new support.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …because at least one candidate isn’t a member of any “D” listing!

  • reggie182

    Balanced budgets, welfare reform, and a 4% unemployment rate during his tenure is a “botched” job?

    He’s brilliant, articulate, and has been a vociferous advocate for conservatism for many years. He takes on the media like no other candidate. I’m glad he is the one with the momentum right now.

  • Ausonius

    I have not read anything about this, but if things are still like in the good ol’ days, deadlocked conventions could do whatever necessary to arrive at a nominee.

    In the Catholic Church, this is how we ended up with a Polish pope! :)

  • lucasblack

    I hate balanced budgets and reforming major entitlement programs. I could never support someone who did that.

  • acat

    As I said somewhere else around here, I expect Cain’s support to evaporate over Thanksgiving. The question then becomes whether he can take out Perry on his way down. (I doubt it …)

    Mew

  • texasroots

    Saw the live press conference at 2 pm today on CNN live event with Allred and ex-boyfriend of Sharon Bialek.

  • heraklios

    That leaves a center-right Gingrich versus a center-left Romney. If conservatives are smart, they will rally around one man this time instead of splitting up the conservative vote to give Romney an opening.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    ..

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is that clarity can emerge from chaos, once determinism predominates [or congeals in any less "directionless" fashion].

    When the flavor-of-the-month is digested, some don’t regurgitate. Mixed-metaphor aside, one could imagine that Herman would not return to this status, leaving Mitt, Rick and The Newt.

    Although I am not wont, these days, to quote Dick Morris, it may be recalled that he has promoted [as have others] the need first to determine the anti-Mitt, even as his glass-ceiling remains stuck below 30% in most polls.

    In a head-to-head, Newt’s flip-flops would be predominant problems, particularly noting that the SCOTUS is assessing ObamaCare…and that The Newt still hasn’t discounted support for the Individual Mandate [as documented recently in his tome, "Winning the Future"].

    one-on-one, Rick can prevail!

  • kaheo

    it’s still not as bad as being accused of sexual harassment. And I know, I know, Cain is innocent until proven guilty. Most voters would’ve dismissed it if it was just 1 woman accusing him. Newt can be forgiven as he hasn’t denied that what he did was wrong and has apologized for it. Cain claims he’s never done anything wrong and that all the 4 women lied. That’s a much tougher sell than Newt’s problem.

  • easyb

    You just reminded me, all my life my dad would say, “Is the pope Polish?”

    I don’t think we’d get to the convention without a nominee, but it sure would make for great television and blogging! Talk about chaos…

  • Whacker77

    With respect, I feel the example of O’Donnell fits. In that case, voters chose her simply because she claimed to be a conservative and wasn’t Castle. Isn’t that why many are supporting people other than Mitt? For months, we’ve been looking for the anybody but Mitt candidate, right?

    You listed well the positives of the candidates, but none of them have demonstrated the ability to gain widespread support or raise money. Without that, they’re bit players and nominating them simply because they seem more conservative than Romney is just as bad as voting for O’Donnell.

    I also feel “D Team” is apt for this group.

    Newt is a train wreck who was fired by his staff. His candidacy would be a disaster for the entire party. I’m still not sold this isn’t just a ploy to sell more books.

    Cain is a fine fellow, but we know almost nothing about him. His views change daily and he knows not a lick about foreign policy. Experience in government does matter and a president should have some.

    As for the rest of them, of course they have reasonable backgrounds. If they didn’t, we would even be talking about them. But we’re only talking about them because they’re all we’ve got. If Jeb, Huck, Thune, Barbour, and Daniels had run, the previously named candidates wouldn’t even be an afterthought.

    I think it is terrible the 2012 faces of the Republican party are Bachmann, Paul, Santorum, and the other bit players who are being treated as something more than they really are. I’m worried Mitt will be tainted by the craziness we’ve seen at the debates.

  • Whacker77

    Respectfully, I disagree with you. I have no problem with people not wanting to choose Romney. I am basically in agreement with the flaws he has, but, at some point, reality must take hold. There is no credible, real alternative to Romney. At least not one who can win nationally.

    In any other presidential cycle, Cain, Newt, and the others would be side shows. They would bring their issues to the debate, they would be heard, and the top tier candidates would ignore them. Think Alan Keyes or Steve Forbes.

    It would be one thing if Cain and Newt were each receiving 5% of the vote, but they’re moving towards the top. I don’t think it’s rational to take a chance on someone who has no elective experience when we consider the shape of the country. I also don’t think it’s rational to support Newt after the way he conducted himself as Speaker.

    I want to beat Obama, but I’m not interested in losing for the sake of purity a la O’Donnell or Angle. No one, sadly other than Mitt, has shown the ability to build an organization that could compete with and beat Obama.

  • Whacker77

    Around whom should we rally to stop Romney? Newt? Honestly, would you be comfortable with him as the nominee given all of the past problems he’s had just as a human being? If so, that’s fine. I understand wanting to find that one person we can all support, but he isn’t out there.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    In May of 2010 he was being sued for divorce.

    After the trial, but before the judgement, he sold his business for $330,000.

    He went to a casino and lost all of it–every last cent–before the judgement was handed down.

    He filed chapter 11 in Sept. of 2011. He still owes his ex-wife $89,000 from the divorce (money he “lost” gambling) as well as the IRS $50,000 and a medical center $675,000.

    Obviously, this doesn’t prove he’s lying, although it makes a good case that he’s dishonest. Honest people don’t sell their biggest asset and then gamble all the money away.

  • center77

    By Cain told her boyfriend of matter And now he is speaking about it. This is just another kink in the long wheel of Cain getting hit with sexual aligations. The man seems pretty credible. Why would so many people be willing to get attacked the likes of Hannity if they did not feel it was important for the public to know about Cain. I just don’t know for sure but I will say this. If a Democrats was in Cains shoes us conservatives would have already convicted him. So I think that’s why its sad that many had decided to cover for him rather than allow the facts to be presented and the public make an informed choice.

  • Ausonius

    Boring Republicans!

    That would really throw the Dems off balance: they desperately want boring predictable Romney as the nominee for obvious reasons, and they are the same reasons that they wanted McCain to be the nominee!

    Misprint in my original post above: CEO Amilya Antonetti is the person I referred to as an outside-the-box candidate. I am not even sure she is a Republican, but she has sounded like one, whenever she has severely criticized MAObama. She has a pro-environment company, so she cannot be accused of ruining the planet, has a family (teenagers to toddlers), etc.

    She wears too much jewelry and make-up, but that could change! :)

    See: http://www.amilya.com/about-amilya/

  • westcoastpatriette

    and his pattern of committing adultery during his first two marriages is that it demonstrates his inability to be faithful and/or keep his vows.

    Marriage is the most sacred relationship human beings enter into in terms of promising devotion until “death do us part.” If Newt has broken these sacred promises not once but twice before moving on to his third victim (idiot), what makes you think he would be loyal and keep his promises to his constituents once in office?

    This is the correlation that I see when considering the trustworthiness of Newt Gingrich. If he is not willing to be faithful to his wives, what makes you think he would be faithful to us?

    That is the cold, harsh reality and a perfect paradigm for correlating past conduct with quality of character once in office.

  • JSobieski

    Nobody is charged with a crime by a prosecutor. Rather, it is a source of civil liability, such as divorce or breach of contract.

  • exitsfunnel

    I keep trying to understand how in a year with such a disastrous incumbent Democratic president, this is the choice we have but it just seems impossible. And yet here we are about to nominate the odious Mitt Romney because as awful as he is, he is the only credible option.

    I keep thinking about Tim Pawlenty who in addition to being a smart, successful, competent Governor in a diverse, bluish state was also that rare Evangelical politician who doesn’t turn off secular voters. How did he get knocked out but Michelle Bachmann is still on the stage at these debates? Just very frustrating that we are where we are.

    (And don’t’ even get my started on the fact that Mitch Daniels didn’t run. There was no one on that stage Saturday night who is even in the same league as Mitch Daniels. In fact, they’re not even in the league directly below him. Someone should have kidnapped his family and made the condition of their release that he run for president)

    -exits

  • bzip

    From a common sense approach I believe CNN?s poll:
    If you believe the Politico or PPP poll then you would have to assume that the sexual harassment allegations against Cain have had basically little to no affect. I don?t buy that.

    There are a number of polls aside from these three polls that confirm Cain is losing the women?s vote and that a significant (somewhere between 31% to 65%) amount of people believes the allegations are true.

    So in other words CNN?s poll confirms what most would expect and what other polls suggest on the effect of these allegations. Also, the allegations don?t sound like they are going away anytime soon – now that the boyfriend of the accuser has spoken out today.

    I find the CNN poll interesting not only because it shows Cain going down as you would expect BUT it was taken November 11 Friday the day ?after the intense damage control? by Perry. The poll ended Saturday November 13 right before the Saturday debate, in which Perry did very well and Cain didn?t do too well. So I would expect Cain?s numbers to continue to go down and Perry?s to go up. Interesting that for the most part in the CNN poll Cain is basically tied with Perry in 3rd.

    There is no question and I don?t think anyone doubts that Newt is going up and taking much of Cain?s support (I think Perry is getting a little of that too). In general all three polls confirm that Newt is going up.

    The bottom line to me is what we should have expected after Cain?s troubles: Newt goes up, Cain goes down. Perry?s damage control appears to be keeping him alive and within the top 4. The race is basically a 4 person race: Romney, Newt, Cain and Perry.

    My prediction is Cain will continue to go down (even more so as the allegations continue). Newt will be tops but if the vetting of Newt is highly negative then I really believe Perry comes back as the anti-Romney candidate.

    Another reason for flaky polls: there have been a number of polls that suggest 7 in 10 republicans haven?t completely decided ? it is an open race.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

  • http://nerds4cain.com Brookhaven

    Newsweek (then a major news magazine) ran a cover with the line “How the Gingrich Stole Christmas”.

    That’s just a hint of how hard the mainstream press went after him.

  • reggie182

    but simply because someone has had affairs in the past does not mean they will be unfaithful as a public servant.

    Newt publicily apologized for his personal transgressions and I think it’s something we should move past. His mistakes are miniscule compared to Bill Clinton’s, who the majority of voters decided was fit for office despite his behavior.

  • kaheo

    She doesn’t have as much experience as Newt, but we can bet all our money that she’s as conservative as they get and doesn’t have any personal/marriage issues that we know of yet! I think she’s done really well in the debates and her best performance was this last debate even though she wasn’t given a fair shot as the other men. She does throw out a lot of talking points, but that’s the best one can do when debate moderators discriminate against her.

    She’s had some gaffes such as the “HPV vaccine could cause mental retardation” but other than that I can’t recall her making any other major blunder comparable to those that Newt/Cain/Perry periodically make!

    She does have 1 major problem: Not a whole lot of money. That could change if Cain/Newt/Perry implode completely in December. Cain will for sure, shortly followed by Newt. Perry will hang on I suspect as he has tons of cash. He’s however been given too many chances and I don’t think he’ll be able to cross 10% in most polls.

  • Scope

    when those Thanksgiving family dinners take place, the you know what will be hitting the fan on the Gingrich negatives. He will be a topic of discussions also. CNN has already been talking about his $300,000 payment from Fannie and Freddy. It has started.

    Isn’t Thanksgiving the most traveled holiday of the year?

  • center77

    The thing is its not just a couple of anonymous people its real faces and names. Its settled harrassment charges. Its a radio. Show host in Iowa. Its a conservative at a tea party rally. Its a former employees say he saw it all. Its four women. I don’t think many Cain supporters would except a video with proof. Cain acted guilty when he continued to lie and blame others
    The last I heard he is now saying his team knew this was coming because they did opposition research on himself. I’ve come to realize Cain is somewhat of a hubris type of Guy.He knew his support was gonna drop. He helped Newt by blaming Perry. I’ve lost all respect of Cain after this. I don’t know if he did it. But I can say its not illogical at all to think he did.

  • kaheo

    I think you’d have to show a case and point for Newt showing that his behavior in private life has been observed in policy that he pushed for. I don’t think there’s any evidence to support that and therefore we should judge him based on his record primarily.

  • bzip

    To try and back up some of what I wrote as far as cain is concern and the fluid nature or the race:

    51% Now Say Allegations Against Cain Likely to Be Serious and True (Wednesday, November 09, 2011)
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/51_now_say_allegations_against_cain_likely_to_be_serious_and_true

    ?Most voters now say that the sexual harassment allegations made against Herman Cain may be both serious and true. At the same time, two-thirds believe Cain?s ethics are at least as good as most politicians. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 51% of voters nationwide say it is at least somewhat likely the allegations against Cain are both serious and true.?

    [At this rate Cain will not be able to win the general election without the women?s vote (not only conservative but independent women voters. In addition, with the Cain continued lousy jokes, Princess Nancy and Anti Hill jokes you can bet he will have 0 women supporting him]

    Obama 48%, Cain 37% (Wednesday, November 09, 2011)
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/archive/election_2012_archive/november_2011/obama_48_cain_37

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57322894-503544/poll-cain-tops-3-way-race-with-romney-gingrich/

    ?In a new CBS News Poll, 61 percent of Republican primary voters say the sexual harassment accusations against Cain won’t make any difference in their vote, but 30 percent say the charges make them less likely to back him, and that rises to 38 percent among women. Cain has lost support among women since last month – from 28 percent in October to 15 percent now. He has lost ground with conservatives and Tea Party supporters as well.?

    ?But the race could still change; seven in 10 Republican primary voters say it is still too early to say for sure which candidate they will support.?

  • westcoastpatriette

    It matters not that he has apologized. What matters is he has shown a pattern of rationalizing betrayal. How many politicians treat voters the same way–promise one thing while running and completely betray the promises after elected.

    You would have to be blind to ignore the red flags that Newt cannot be trusted to keep his word.

  • bzip

    Perry is far from being done. You better have some hard data to back that claim up

  • center77

    To ever be found guilty of an ethic violation is not heavy then I don’t know what is. Plus he is about as Washington insider as one can get. He had the whole Greedy Mac thing. The whole calling conservative who don’t agree with him hateful and cannibals. And that is the very tip of the ice Berg and does not even touch his personal life.

  • ceili_dancer

    I’ve heard stories of people goning into the house with a chainsaw and splitting everything in half. Emotions can sometimes override proper decision making centers.

  • Scope

    going to Newt. I doubt it stays there for very long when they both are portrayed as having some real women problems, both involving infidelity, and that will be the least of Newt’s problems over the next week or two.

  • bzip

    Perry of course. rally behind Perry. He is the only true, consistent conservative with the record to back it up. Perry has over 10 years of governing experience and has the qualities to lead this country. In addition he can go against Obama as good or better than any other candidate.

    If you have doubts, then you better do your research including watching Perry’s interviews and debate forums such as the Iowa debate forum.

  • paladin1

    Gingricdh but some will not, as I noted, above. There is a faction of conservatives and the religious right, particularly those old enough to remember Gingrich’s demise as speaker and his personal issues, who will not go for him unless/until he is the last man standing against Romney. They will go to Perry.

  • reggie182

    The very point of his apology was to acknowledge that what he did was unjustified. He’s a human being who had human failures.

    Remember a lady named Kay Summersby? It’s very likely that Dwight D. Eisenhower had an affair with her while Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces.

    Did that lead to him being derelict in his duty as President, or untrustworthy?

  • pttx333

    with your updates. I salute you! Thanks!

  • Scope

    the ex-boyfriend attesting to the fact that Bialek told him about Cain’s sexual harassment against her, shortly after it happened? Absolutely nothing.

  • center77

    When it was Reagan’s policy that led to the boom. Lets remember this country has not elected a congressman for president. I think we need a governor with out a character problem.

  • bzip

    I think there is a percent of people that: a) are not familiar with Newt’s background and b) those who have kind of forgotten about his background since it hasn’t been talk about much.

    My prediction is if Newt is really faced with the media doing a serious vetting job – his support may drop off and then go to Perry.

    Even if Newt pass the vetting I don’t think he can hang on and go the distance. If that is the case, then Perry jumps in and takes over (hopefully not too late that Perry still could win). Nothing like playing cat and mouse.

    I honestly think it has come down to a 4 person race: Romney, Newt, Perry and Cain and Cain will slowly bow out of visibility.

  • Tbone

    Nice looking though. I have come to the conclusion that she is as dumb as Palin was accused of being.

  • Scope

    under the penalty of perjury attesting to his truthfulness concerning the issue. It’s a heck of a lot more than Cain saying that he would take a lie detector test, “if there was a reason for it.” Apparently a collapsing campaign isn’t reason enough.

  • reggie182

    was elected. Credit that to the Contract with America and Newt Gingrich.

  • morstar150

    I still say that we have great candidates. Cain, Romney, Newt, Bachman, even Huntsman and half of Ron Paul’s brain. I don’t know why Santorum is still in it, or why Republicans think that just because Rick Perry can spend a ton of money that he will make a good president. Most of our candidates have great ideas. They have all been leaders. They are pro-American, pro-business, and interested in all of American not just green contributors or Wall Street CEO’s taking too big to fail bailouts.

    On the other side we have Barack Obama who some may consider a nice guy but one who has never held a position in business, looks out for the union bosses over the people, believes in massive govenment, redistribution and punishing those who are sucessful, all while apologizing for how evil we are as a nation.

    Unfortunately, it seems like Newt and Cain are the only ones who will challenge the left wing press to speak the truth about this president. Let’s just get on with the voting, let the press sling mud at Newt and in the end we will have the best candidate NO MATTER WHO WE CHOOSE!

  • renl57

    In the old days, parties often went into the convention without a clear front runner, and then had all kinds of lobbying and side deals to get the delegates to pick a nominee.

    But once they started televising all that insider stuff, it so turned off the voters that both parties resolved not to hang their dirty laundry out in public at conventions anymore.

    And so we haven’t had a brokered convention since 1968.

  • bzip

    I was going to say some think kike that.

    Look, Bachmann had her chance and she showed us she isn’t ready to lead the country. A complete disaster.

    All the bottom feeders are done: Bachmann, Johnson, Huntsman, Santurium (he would be eve better than Bachmann)

  • westcoastpatriette

    proof that they have changed. With Newt, it’s the pattern that is alarming. And you don’t have to agree with me–that’s your prerogative.

    Personally, I would not befriend a habitual adulterer nor would I vote for one.

  • paladin1

    on Perry affected his standings, the constant hammering on Cain is going to be his death knell. It will be slow and painful but it will be final. It is not something like the debating/speaking issues with Governor Perry that can be repaired; this is character and true or not, he cannot withstand it.

  • Scope

    for the early states through Fla. I would think it near to impossible for anyone to gain the nomination without even participating in the early states. I don’t know if anyone is strong enough to win those states as a write in, if that is even allowed.

  • bzip

    Cain has a Libya Moment – Just breaking from CNN it appears Cain mess up something pretty bad concerning a Libya question (they will have video in minutes). Not too surprising, Cain is a complete disaster with foreign policy, most people know that.

  • drothgery

    You mostly had to survive re-election in 2006 or 2008 to be in good position to run now (it’s no surprised that there are few current office holders running — which is part of why the field is uninspiring), which mostly left people in safe GOP seats or ‘dull but competent’ types (like Daniels).

  • pttx333

    “It is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.” Meaning that he just plow on through with whatever he wants to do, then thinks that an “I’m sorry” will cut the mustard. Not so much …

  • bzip

    Oh Boy,, Cain had a Opps moment for sure with Libya.

    Just how well or what does Cain do for damage control.

    Video is clear Cain royally messed up big time.

  • renl57

    The Dem victories in those two years decimated the GOP bench.

    Senator Allen, whom everybody expected would become a Presidential candidate eventually, was destroyed by “macaca.”

    Jim Talent lost. Conrad Burns lost. Norm Coleman lost. John Sununu lost.

  • Scope

    He sat sat for an interview with the editorial board of the Milwaukee Sentinel. He was asked if he agreed with how Obama handled the situation in Libya. Good Lord, this beats Perry’s opps by a long shot.

    As someone on CNN said, he has glorified ignorance.

  • bzip

    Look, if you consider Cain a good candidate then it is clear you DO NOT know what you are talking about in regards to ‘good”.

    Come back when you have a better definition of good candidates.

    Cain a womanizer, sexual harassment allegations, will lose the women’s vote (he is unelectable) a lose cannon yelling at reporters:

    Herman Cain When Asked About Anita Hill: “Is she Going to Endorse Me”
    http://youtu.be/XqaGa1HkMd8

    Herman Cain Screams at Reporter at Right Online
    http://youtu.be/bFa6bz9jpEo

  • bzip

    Cain is toast, he was already toast and he is now over and done with.

    Cain a very serious Opps. He will laugh it off, say he didn’t understand the question

  • constitutional

    The budget was not balanced. It was a fake balance–check the facts.

  • renl57

    He’s nowhere near as conservative as Perry or Bachmann.

    The base would have to swallow pretty hard over things that Huntsman has said–just as they have to swallow hard over things Romney has said.

    But unlike Romney, Huntsman is consistent in his pronouncements.

    And I have to say that Huntsman would be real hard for Obama to attack–except on the fundamental issue of conservatism vs. liberalism. And that Huntsman should be able to handle.

    Sorry, folks, I do NOT believe that Cain’s supporters and Gingrich’s supporters will just drift back to Perry. You only get one chance to make a first impression. Perry already made his impression–and it wasn’t positive.

    If you don’t believe that, try asking some Cain supporters and Gingrich supporters if they would switch to Perry if their own candidate faltered. I’ll bet they’ll say no.

  • Scope

    below. This video is going to go viral very quickly. I saw it played on CNN, and the lip licking was in overtime. It almost appeared at first that he didn’t even know anything about Libya at all. Wasn’t Gadaffi just killed a matter of days ago? Wouldn’t the Libya situation be in the forefront of anyone’s mind, since it is such a recent story?

  • wacowboy

    nt

  • acat

    I can see how you get to that conclusion.

    Fortunately, many of us are able to look at candidates’ records, not just how well they can sound bite.

    Mew

  • earlgrey

    then, it is game over.

    I have been staying out of the debate. I really dig perry and it seems when I get invested in something it blows up on me, so I have been avoiding these discussions. I like to read what others say, but for once I am trying to stay out of it.

    In this case, though, it sounds just awful. He is both lacking in facts and conservative message.

  • Scope

    that he didn’t understand the question. He sat there and asked the question again, as though he forgot what it was, and said he wanted to make sure that he understood the question before answering. He can’t exactly say it was a misunderstanding because he clarified the question before falling all over his lips with his tongue.

    Remember when Beck showed videos of Anita Dunn licking her lips that was sickening.

  • 1bunny

    for clarification so he could answer the question properly. Wanted to make sure they were talking about the same thing before he said yes. I am watching CNN right now and he was terrible. CNN labels it ‘Cain gets stumped on Libya’. It was baaad… so bad. He looked lost when asked the question.

  • Scope

    it is that bad. When he was asked if he agreed with Obama’s handling of the Libyan situation, he literally sat there for the longest time, as though he was trying to remember where or what the Libyan situation was. It got worse from there.

  • windwaker24

    That will need clarification:

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/11/14/cain_supports_collective_bargaining_for_public_unions

  • acat

    I predict the history of Newt Gingrich is going to be the subject of several around-the-turkey conversations, followed by some car ride follow-up chatter.

    I’m not sure if Thanksgiving is the most traveled holiday, but its’ travel schedule is quite compressed so it sure seems that way. Busiest day for airlines, anyway. (lots of travel over Christmas as well, but the departures and returns tend to be more spread out)

    I’ll stand on my previous prediction, that between Thanksgiving and Christmas, Perry will end up looking the best of the not-Romneys.

    It’s a bit early but since you brought it up, a happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

    Mew

  • Scope

    Huntsman? You mean the guy that can’t get above 2-3% in polling?

  • bzip

    Yep, I saw the same thing. It was bad, it look bad it was pathetic. CNN is going to have an update from Team Cain

  • wacowboy

    Perry is the one, for all the reasons he said.

  • wacowboy

    to be clear, thanks to bzip :)

  • izoneguy

    But the MSM/FOX tug of war between wanting Romney & Cain as the nominee will fail.

    Most of the voters know Romney is A RINO. I guess RINO’s and the uninformed will go for Romney because the MSM claims Romney could beat Obama. FOX is in the tank for Cain, as are Rush & Levin. Rush, Hannity & Levin rail against the MSM about them choosing the nominee….yet they want us to choose Cain….

    Cain or Romney would be a horrible choice. Let’s make all their heads explode
    and nominate Perry – the most experienced conservative in the race.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I can never understand splitting hairs trying to pretend who you are in your personal life is unrelated to who you are and how you will perform in public office.

    You are who you are wherever you go. In office or out of office. Seems so plain to me but then some people don’t like facing the truth about the need for character in every aspect of life.

    I have payed dear prices for mistakes I have made in my life and, hopefully, became a better person as a result. But, some people never learn or change and they pay a dear price for that, too.

    In some ways, Newt shows his continuing recklessness by expecting us to overlook his transgressions and entrust him to run a powerful branch of the federal government. That in itself reflects more arrogance on his part. Just sayin’.

  • bzip

    I don’t even understand why we are talking Huntsman on a conservative site and for a guy that can’t even poll about 2%.

    Look folks: Huntsman, Bachmann< Santurium and Johnson are done for and almost Cain.

    I am also sick of hearing the cry baby response of "our supporters aren't moving over to candidate X" – you know how childish that sounds, how plain stupid and irresponsible that sounds.

  • Scope

    If any of those Thanksgiving dinners with the family members are like the discussions about the candidates around here, I would suspect many early departure requests. LOL

    A very happy Thanksgiving to you and yours also Cat. Are you cooking? What is your menu because I’m sure you are the designated cookster.

  • septembergurl

    Foreign policy *genius* Herb Cain explicates his Libya policy to the Ed Board of the milwaukee J-S:

    Herb:
    “Libya. President Obama supported the uprising, correct? President Obama called for the removal of Qadhafi.

    Just want to make sure we?re talking about the same thing before I say, yes I agree, I know I didn?t agree.

    I do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason ? no, that?s a different one.

    I gotta go back to ? Got all this stuff twirling around in my head.

    Specifically, what are you asking me, did I agree or not disagree with on what? ?

    Here?s what I would have ? I would have done a better job of determining who the opposition is and I?m sure that our intelligence people have some of that information. Based upon who made up that opposition ? based upon who made up that opposition, might have caused me to make some different decisions about how we participated.

    Secondly, no, I did not agree with Qadhafi killing his citizens. Absolutely not. So something would have had to be ? I would have supported many of the things they did in order to help stop that.

    It?s not a simple yes-no, because there are different pieces and I would have gone about assessing the situation differently, which might have caused us to end up in the same place. But where I think more could have been done was, what?s the nature of the opposition”

    Mmmkay. In the same session Herb supported public employee collective bargaining rights. In Wisconsin!

    All in all a typical day on the trail for Herb. Retractions, Corrections, denials, etc to come.

    Got all this stuff twirling around in my head — Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters?

  • wacowboy

    is that Perry should be taken seriously because he has what none of the other candidates have — an extensive conservative record and values. 10 years as governor

    You can see all the questions and answers about him — copy and paste this in your address bar
    http://www.redstate.com/izoneguy/2011/08/14/seventeen-17-things-that-critics-are-saying-about-rick-perry/

  • bzip

    I don’t believe this – Could someone please explain to me what Planet Cain came off of?

    Cain Supports Collective Bargaining for Public Unions?
    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/11/14/cain_supports_collective_bargaining_for_public_unions

    In an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Herman Cain said he supports the “right” for public employees to bargain collectively. In other words, he is in favor of unions on the taxpayer dime. Cain also said federal workers have unions, meaning the right to collectively bargain, but they do not.

  • Common_Cents

    But not sure how much coverage it would get. I believe it’s at a church in IA, on family, values etc…

  • paladin1

    What a disaster, and not just a brain freeze-it is a total lack of grasp of the Libya issue. He is going to fade faster than I initially expected at this rate. The stress is taking its toll on him because he has no political experience and is totaslly unequipped to handle this pressure.

  • Scope

    They said that the video “was taken out of context.” They said he had been answering questions with the editorial staff for about 45 minutes, and that when they switched to the question about Libya, it took Cain a little while to gather his thoughts on Libya.

    If I had the funny faces, I would insert the googly eyes right here.

    Again, as someone on CNN said, Cain has glorified ignorance when it comes to foreign policy.

  • bzip

    Herman Cain has a ‘Rick Perry moment’ on Libya policy

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-cain-interview-20111114,0,5884565.story

  • bzip

    Cain Supports Collective Bargaining for Public Unions?

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/11/14/cain_supports_collective_bargaining_for_public_unions

    “In an interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Herman Cain said he supports the ?right? for public employees to bargain collectively. In other words, he is in favor of unions on the taxpayer dime. Cain also said federal workers have unions, meaning the right to collectively bargain, but they do not.”

  • pttx333

    we are who we are – now repeat that 10 times daily. ;-) Along those lines, if I had been a streetwalker at night, then went to my day job at a very dignified place, how on earth could some of the nighttime behaviors not shown through at some point during the day. It has to do with character and values. If you can’t be true to promises and really don’t see a big problem with it, that is a big character flaw in my books.

    Hon, we have all made stupid, stupid mistakes and chosen totally wrong paths, but that is how we learn. There is no sin in failing, the sin comes in when you learn nothing from falling flat on your fanny. It is the way we grow and strive to do better, and we usually succeed. But there are some who never grow up and never will. They are the pathetic ones.

  • Scope

    I think it was Blitzer that said that at least Perry knew he wanted to get rid of three departments, but just couldn’t remember one of them. Cain was a total blank on the entire question.

    I promise this is even worse than the “right of return” flub.

  • izoneguy

    Link if the embed does not work

    Herman Cain on Libya

  • tyman

    Rush had a lady call up that was so excited about Cain, just reiterating the same lines that we all hear, and how he was truly the anti-Obama and that Cain is really who they don’t want to face.

    Then Rush asked if she saw the debate Saturday night. No, she forgot to watch it. Rush told her it was just as well. I think she asked if it was that bad for Cain, and he said yeah.

    I just can’t understand why the way Cain’s wife has voted isn’t a red flag to people. All we have to go on is that Cain says he’s a conservative, and that he will appoint conservative judges. That was one of the big questions I had after the excitement of his entering the race wore off. He has no record! And on top of that, his wife continues to vote Democrat (I wonder if she voted for Obama or Hillary in the ’08 primary).

    I know the race issue has gotten a lot of coverage, but I just don’t believe that the African-American community is going to all of a sudden vote for Cain as a Republican. Another thing is that regardless of polling, there are a lot of white people who will NOT vote for a person of color (and not just in the south). Just as Herman said that Romney could NOT get the nomination because of his religion, particularly in the south. I came to this realization after Herman was soundly beaten by Johnny Isakson in the Senate primary in Georgia (and I gladly voted for Herman). I’m just being honest!

    That’s one of the things that’s made me very suspect about the polls in South Carolina, that showed Romney and Cain with such a big lead.

  • izoneguy

    Link if embed does not work

    Herman Cain on Collective Bargaining

  • izoneguy

    N/T

  • Scope

    a few days ago said that Perry cannot withstand the media scrutiny he was getting, because the media was ridiculing him, and no candidate can ever survive ridicule.

    The media has been trying to redicule Perry since day one. He was dumb, he was just another creepy Texan, hes lying about his economic record in Texas and on and on. They may have been able to attack his record, but no one has ever been able to attack Perry’s character and/or integrity, or as Herm would say in-teg-ri-ty.

  • Tbone

    The turkey may have a ways to go but Cain’s done.

  • bzip

    I am not surprised by Cain’s response. You can already tell their damage control is going to be very poor.

  • bzip

    CNN:
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/cain-stumbles-over-libya/

    ABC:
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/herman-cains-oops-moment-on-libya-got-all-this-stuff-twirling-around-in-my-head/

    LA Times:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-cain-interview-20111114,0,5884565.story

    Fox:
    Missing story at this time

  • pttx333

    a thing as vaudeville in NYC or somewhere? If so, I know exactly what Cain’s next job will be. Since I’ve not seen or heard such tap dancing anywhere like is on his huge, humongous GAFFE with the Libya question, he would be the star of the entire theater! Good grief! For anyone to even refer to this with Perry’s itty bitty nothing in the same sentence is a travesty of major proportions. This is deadly what Cain has just pulled – he did answer a single question – he was kickboxing and tap dancing at the same time – wobbling, dodging, dancing around – he is DONE!

  • pttx333

    n

  • bzip

    Cain says he isn’t a politician but he sure is tap dancing around like the “worst” politicians I have ever heard.

    Look folks, Cain is a politician just a very bad one. Perhaos he could try out for tap dancing :-) .

  • Tbone

    “”Nope, that’s a different one,” he says, apparently having reached for the wrong set of talking points. Shifting uncomfortably in his chair, he confesses: “Got all this stuff twirling around in my head.”‘

    This putz needs to get out of the race NOW!

    Come on you Cainiacs, defend this fool.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Obama *won* his one Senate run.

  • Scope

    they can to annoint the not Romney candidate that never ever had a chance of winning the nomination. I have said before that Cain would never have gotten in the polls where he has if Fox didn’t so heavily promote him, and gain him much name recognition. Cain is imploding before their eyes. No matter how much Hannity or Rush or Levin try to push him now, they only make themselves look like total fools. I suspect that the conversation will rapidly change with the talk radio heads post haste. They cannot afford to stay with a candidate that is destroying himself, much more than anyone could try to destroy him. I wonder who will be the next Fox, Rush, Hannity, Levin flavor of the week will be. I would be shocked if they now jump over to supporting Gingrich.

  • Scope

    that’s pretty darn harsh for sure. I’m sure the Email Bag will be full shortly because you are so terribly unfair. After all, he never was a politician, why should he know any of this stuff. LOL

  • avagreen

    LB, Mommabird, Cinammon, Captain Blu, Beeker, General, or Kbitch (named aptly if you know alpha female budgies).

    LB or General would get my first vote.

  • 1bunny

    the Island of Misfit Toys. LOL This is a quote from John King on CNN.

  • Tbone

    Can any of you view these two videos and make any case that this guy is qualified to be anything other than the Bulls**t Artist he obviously is?

  • bzip

    Yep and in fact you are being to kind. At least Obama knew his agenda – I don’t think Cain knows his agenda.

  • 1bunny

    should have read “The Island of Misfit Toys is where they belong”

  • Tbone

    Watching Obama and Cain in a debate would be like walking behind a chicken manure spreader.

    Somebody embed this;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAHywW1ciVI

  • bzip

    Yep, I gave up on Fox. I have been watching CNN it has become too clear Fox has a agenda and they clearly are biased. There are too many very clear specific case that I have watch – I can no longer trun my back to it.

    Hannity already looks stupid and comes off very clear in his bias. I just have lost so much respect for some of the big name conservatives.

  • cheetah2

    and not support anyone but rather give fair and balanced reporting on all the candidates. Not holding my breath.

  • pttx333

    s

  • easyb

    I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, along with all the others. I actually think that the harassment claims are a hatchet job and that he could have fought through it.

    This, to me, is it. The debate proved him to be very thin on foreign policy, and it was backed up by today’s gaffe.

    I can no longer in good faith keep Cain on my list as a possibility.

    So my list has been whittled down to Perry and Gingrich. I would not at all be opposed to that being the ticket, actually.

  • 1bunny

    I gave up on Fox too. I switched to CNN a week or two ago and I haven’t watched them since 2001. What a strange world we are in now. If someone had told me that Fox would act this way I would not have believed it or that I would be watching CNN – forget about it I would have called them big fat liars. Sigh… what a sad day when Fox outs itself as RINO loving.

  • texasroots

    yuh havtuh unduhstand (lick lips, lick lips)…ha! ha!

  • bzip

    It would be nice but I am not counting on it. I am going to see how long it takes for Fox to put a front page story up concerning Cain’s Libya problem. It may never happen or it may happen when they can no longer hide it.

  • pttx333

    a

  • jimmyg

    snip
    Is your opinion of Herman Cain favorable, unfavorable or haven’t you heard enough about him?

    33% Favorable
    31% Unfavorable

    Is your opinion of Rick Perry favorable, unfavorable or haven’t you heard enough about him?

    18% Favorable
    45% Unfavorable

    Is your opinion of Mitt Romney favorable, unfavorable or haven’t you heard enough about him?

    35% Favorable
    35% Unfavorable

    Is your opinion of Newt Gingrich favorable, unfavorable or haven’t you heard enough about him?

    26% Favorable
    47% Unfavorable

    snip
    From October 25 – 31, Quinnipiac University survey

    You guys apprerently think that if Cain’s support goes down, that support will go to Perry, not necessarily so. I would defer to Neal, but Perry’s Favorables, Unfaovorables are so .underwater, that Perry’s his own worst enemy. One debate is not going to appreciably change the immediate outlook. Perry’s Intrade numbers are at the same point they were after last Wednesday’s debate where he lost half his Intrade support. He is currently remains at 3.5%
    and everyone is selling, not buying shares in Perry.

  • pttx333

  • circlegranch

    talk about brain freeze! Whoa! I would imagine that he’s a little distracted since the one woman’s boyfriend did a presser today.

    Now, will O’Reilly and/or Hannity show the same video as their lead story? They sure have had fun with Perry’s problematic debate performance last Wed, right?

    Fair and Balanced…….my old foot!

    Not over!

    Rick Perry for President 2012 AND 2016!

  • usedtobelib

    He just finished saying how sick he is of the media covering for Obama for his stupid comments while they pile on Herman Cain for his “needing time….to think about Libya.”

    I think we all agree about the Obama/ media love affair, and it’s totally irrelevant for Levin to use their love affair with any concern the rest of us have about one of our own.

    Mark and Rush and Hannity and Laura have been embarrassing me with their covering for what they call “Tea Party” candidates (ie Perry, Cain) when these candidates stumble, and today’s Cain “brain freeze” over Libya is just another case of it.

    You know, I have no problem with Gov. Perry going blank for a short time during a debate on the NAME of the department he was struggling to remember, but his inability to recall one of his primary (if not THE primary) reason for wanting to be President (re-developing our own energy sources and reducing our reliance on other nation’s supplies) left me aghast.

    Today, Herman Cain not seeming to know even the most basic things about the Obama-Clinton strategy in Libya (gee, ya think he at least could have recalled what “former terrorist” and on-the-run former head of that country had just been killed or is that asking too much for a Presidential candidate, esp. one who has been polling pretty well among the base?) was mind-blowing.

    It’s bad enough for candidates to have such “lapses” (scare quotes indicating my belief they are not at all mere lapses), but it now sickens me that right-of -center and powerful commentators are making themselves look no different, no better than the lap-dog hacks and commentators of the Left.

    I don’t want Mark and Rush et. al to be like Matthews and Maddow and Olberman, but…..it’s happening.

  • Scope

    I hope you can learn to live beyond that.

  • Scope

    Do they have to have Italian citizenship?

  • usedtobelib

    “and it?s totally irrelevant for Levin to use their love affair with any concern the rest of us have about one of our own.”

    Should read, “but it’s totally irrelevant for Levin to use their love affair in any discussion of how we view our own candidates.”

  • usedtobelib

    LOL.

  • bzip

    Yep, that is what is happening right in front of us. It comes down to principles and standing beside them whether it is a good or bad issue. I can’t take the double standards, if it is bad for the left then it is bad for the right. You can’t play favoritism and that is what Hannity, Rush, et al are doing.

  • Scope

    somewhere, I know that isn’t a credible statement, but, that Gloria voted for Hillary in 08.

  • jimmyg

    nt

  • tyman

    This should be something people need to look into.

    I’ll say it again, but I’ve heard people say that a President is NEVER more conservative than his wife. I think that was part of W’s problem.

  • txpat

    As much as I agree Cain is not ready for President for many reasons I don’t think it is right to dog the man on his brain freeze moment.
    I didn’t like it when everyone piled on Perry, and I don’t Think we should get giddy about it happening to Cain.
    The question will be how Cain deals with it, but it not the same exposure that Perry got on the debate stage.
    Cain will hope that it isn’t brought up on Fox.

  • superpatriot

    Bachman will not be the GOP nominee.

  • pttx333

    that he has not only hurt the conservative or Republican brand, but has set back any good conservative potential candidate from running for a very long time – just has b.o. I have a black friend who told me that she and her daughter (a medical doctor) had a terrible row when b.o. was running and is still continuing as time has gone by. Her daughter referred to voting for b.o. as an “experiment” to see how a black man would do in office. Well, the lab has exploded. This has set back for years that a perfectly good candidate might step forward … and Cain has cemented my opinion. Sad.

  • pttx333

    Perry was onstage with an extremely limited amount of time in which to respond and forgot a department he was revamp. Cain had all the time in the world to respond today about a HUGE issue, with no pressure or timeline, and about an issue that anyone on RS could have answered fairly quickly after a short time to reflect – most, though, could have responded immediately. Cain sat there, and it was so plain to see that he was truly clueless. He never did answer the question, even after a lifeline or two, he just kept tap dancing. It was awful.

  • gracie

    they cut it off so you could not see it’s duration.

    And I have to disagree with usedtobelib below. Rush, Sean ad Levin have covered up for Cain but not Perry. Today Rush made fun of Perry’s zero based foreign aide plan stating that he did not answer his question two times. Then he bascially accused Perry for stealing the idea from him from several years ago! Dang it’s always about Rush.

    He gave Perry not one whit of credit for his debate performance in general or for starting an important discussion re: the aide. WHAT is going on here? Hannity is controlled by Fox but not Levin and Rush! Or Ingraham.

    They think Cain would honestly make a better Prez than Perry??

  • gracie

    but when I write Hannity I get the mail sent back to me stating address unknown!! How can this happen on a major network’s website??

    Yes we should all write but what does it take to get to the management…the guys ABOVE the show emai? That is who we need to get to to tell them we are no longer watching Faux News. I am down to Bret Baier only, for the panel.

  • txpat

    Needs the Cain train to not fall off the rails yet.
    It’s to early you see, and that could hurt Romney.
    All the conservatives start getting behind one candidate Romney will be toast.

  • Scope

    You are posting info from late Oct. Much has happened since then with many of the candidate. Look at the most recent favorables/unfavorables from the recent CBS poll. Cain’s favorability has drooped significantly. I mean he is in the negative now with those ratings. I will grant you that Perry’s favoribility hasn’t been great, but either is Cain’s, and his numbers are dropping below the gutter. The Gingrich fav/unfav has changed dramatically since the numbers you have posted.

    If you want to have credibility with your posts, you will have to get up to snuff on your numbers posted, as the numbers have been changing weekly if not daily. Are you posting old info to back up your case against Perry?

  • txpat

    But media will link it to Perry’s moment again.
    Nothing like killing two birds with one stone.
    Fox want mention it, because they need Cain still on the chain for Romney.

  • avagreen

    not all these addresses are working addresses, including fsn and Hannity and a few others.

    Write the others.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77538,00.html

  • Scope

    with Chris Wallace in the pre-debate meeting planning on how they were going to try to bring Perry down. Go back out and read the Kurtz article where he relates the meeting where Wallace and Baier were planning the attack. Baier is protecting his Fox paycheck, he is not being fair and balanced.

  • superpatriot

    How many of you dudes and dudettes out there think Cain will be campaigning after 12-31-2011??

    I’d say 3/10 yes and 7/10 no.

  • txpat

    Pttx333 I was replying to not bzip.
    Good grief it been a long Monday.

  • tyman

    before the election, that if BHO were elected as the first African-American president, he would be the last (at least for a while) because he would do such a terrible job.

    BHO has the Sadim touch. Yes, that’s Midas spelled backwards: everything he touches turns to excrement instead of gold.

    It’s certainly sad, as you say, but it’s true.

  • avagreen

    hanks for your email and thanks for watching.

    I read Erick?s stuff frequently.. thanks for the suggestion.

    As for viewers.. our ratings have only increased. We are ? on most nights ? double CNN and MSNBC combined. So.. if people are flocking away ? we haven?t seen that yet.

    And as for Governor Perry ? EVERY channel covered that 53 seconds in the debate. We also covered the 9 appearances the Governor made yesterday in damage control. 3 of those appearances were on the channel that you now hate.. this one. Long interviews where Governor Perry was provided the opportunity to talk to the most viewers in cable news? on Fox News Channel

    Thanks for the email? and thanks for watching while you have.

    Bret Baier
    Anchor, “Special Report with Bret Baier”
    Fox News Channel

  • tyman

    The thing about Perry’s freeze was the fact that you know he probably has the DoE on speed dial and has uttered that department as a curse phrase hundreds of times in Obama’s term. So it IS NOT something that he truly isn’t familiar with, excuse the prepositional ending.

  • superpatriot

    Fox won’t do anything to damage darling Cain, who is their ace-in-the-hole for a Romney win.

    And they call themselves a fair, republican network??
    Very sad.

  • txpat

    Should email CNN and Msnbc about Fox bias.
    I bet they would air it, and maybe get there attention as well as emailing fox.
    What do y’all think about that?

  • takeourcountryback

    I agree. I also have a black friend who has said similar things. It’s a darned shame that they had to ruin opportunities like that….

  • jimmyg

    From the most recent CNN Nov.11-13, poll we have a winner

    Snip
    Texas Governor Rick Perry
    Base = Total Sample
    Total Men Women White Non-White
    —– —– —– —– ———
    Favorable Opinion 28% 30% 25% 29% 25%
    Unfavorable Opinion 47% 48% 47% 48% 45%
    Heard of, no opinion 10% 10% 11% 12% 8%
    Never heard of 15% 11% 18% 12% 22%
    No opinion * * * * *
    Sampling Error +/-3.0 +/-4.5 +/-4.5 +/-3.5 +/-7.0

    Snip

    Gov. Perry has the highest unfavorables of any Republican Candidate. You may not like the numbers, but Perry’s numbers do not lie. Allthough his favorables are up, his unfavorables have not moved.

  • tjms

    just was checking my local newspaper and they already had the info regarding Cain-and a humiliating picture. I noticed they also had a link to a video on Newt. It was from 08 and he had made the comment regarding english being the natl language and that spanish is the language of the ghetto. I watched the video and didn’t hear him say spanish, but apparently he went and made an aplolgy in spanish. Guess the media is wasting no time on digging up on Newt now.http://www.mysanantonio.com/

  • txpat

    n/t

  • gracie

    Will try that one.

  • paladin1

    withstand the media blitzing he has gotten and will ultimately be the Anti-Romney. He has the political experience from previous elections to understand the type of assaults he has to deal with and to proceed on through them without giving up or breaking down. Cain on the other hand….not so much. Plus, Cain is taking it on the chin with character issues and that is the worst thing to debilitaste a candidate because it is, in and of itself, a personal accusation.

  • paladin1

    I really have to start spell checking before I send. Debilitate is what I meant.

  • gracie

    LOVE it.
    And while we are at it let’s encourage them to becaome the fair and balanced station. Suggenst the put up a stronge conservative against Hannity so that we will have someone to watch!

  • goformitt

    Everyone has now seen Cain’s campaign meltdown today? Toast.

  • tyman

    I’ve learned not to take Rush too seriously and he was mocking Perry’s accent, but I think he was complimenting Perry on not taking Pelley’s bait about Pakistan (it was a loaded question!), and the fact that he gave an answer that was similar to what Rush discussed on his show years ago.

    On Rush’s website, the transcript is posted and I think it’s more complimentary of Perry, although Rush could have said it better, as EE did a while ago, that Perry didn’t fall for the loaded question.

    I do agree though that Rush, Sean and Levin have gone overboard praising Cain. I don’t think Rush has ever played clips of Perry’s interview with Chris Wallace.

    Mark Levin took up for Perry after his freeze, but he went on to say: “Is Perry the strongest candidate? No”. Well, who in the world does he think is? Surely, it’s not Herb. And I’ve heard Levin say strong things against Newt, too.

    I couldn’t believe that Rush actually said that Cain’s debate performance was bad, but he did.

  • txpat

    Romney for Italian PM?

  • seth90212

    Your guy Perry is not the beneficiary of any anti-Cain sentiment, Newt and Romney are. Just because Cain took most of Perry’s supporters doesn’t mean the reverse will happen.

  • pttx333

    need Cain or anyone else to tie with Perry or vice versa. They’re going to slam Perry regardless of what he does – even he he sprouted wings and a halo on stage they would slam him. That is because he is who they fear the most – plain and simple. Perry’s tiny little goof, when you compare to Cain’s, has been mostly forgotten by everyone except for the you-know-who culprits. And they’re going to do it anyway. So … I can just just hear Perry now saying “well, just so they spell my name right.” That’s him.

  • bzip

    Rick Perry on Congressional Insider Trading

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/rick-perry-suggests-legislators-should-be-jailed-for-insider-trading/

  • bzip

    Would you care to back that statement up with data?

    How do you know what will happen, the feelings and the ideals that Cain supporters feel and how they feel towards Perry? Are you their spokes person?

    I am sick of the cry baby attitude, the childish way in which this is being touted about. That is a very, very irresponsible attitude.

  • gracie

    Oh, I remember that whole situation well not to mention the disgusting moderating done by Fox. I got Wallace’s number right after he was hired. Admit I was surprised at Bret piling on at the debate; had not seen him act this biased until then.

    I only mentioned him because we will occasionally watch his program for the panel….I miss my news! CNN has improved but not enough to trust them for one good hour of nightly TV.

    Looking back it does seem like the CNN debates have been the most fairly moderated.

  • pttx333

    I know WHY there is no gold … it is because b.o. himself (I just can’t bring myself to capitalize even his initials!) IS the excrement! A BIG pile and growing bigger by the minute. ;-)

  • seth90212

    No way you would behave the way you do and spend as much time and energy doing it if you weren’t getting paid.

  • bzip

    You are like your Messiah Cain, avoiding the questions and tap dancing around them. To bad, you lose just as Cain loses.

  • conservativemusician

    And it is ten times worse than Perry’s flub at last Wednesday’s debate. He was totally flummoxed. He didn’t say “oops” but said he had all this stuff “twirling around” his head. His pat answer to everything is to avoid specifics and simply say he needs all the information before he can make decisions. That’s simply not good enough for someone who aspires to be president. I expect our nominee to have core convictions because he is the one who has to make the final decisions – not his advisors.

    P.S. I thought Perry really redeemed himself at the Saturday debate. Gingrich, of course, ran circles around everyone with his intelligence and massive command of the facts, but Perry still held his own and finished a close second in my estimation. I still think it will come down to Perry vs. Gingrich in the end.

  • seth90212

    Now you’re slamming Fox News for not doing enough to destroy the campaign of Herman Cain, a strong conservative Repulican.

    You people are a joke. I’m done here until or unless they bring some sanity and balance to this site. The first thing they should do is ban all paid Perry trolls.

    No wonder your guy is stuck in single digits. Just look at his supporters.

  • texasref

    How many more times must Perry show you he lacks the intelligence we deserve and should expect from our nominee?

    Keep thinking wishfully, Tbone. Saying the frontrunner is done doesn’t make it so.

    P.S. How do you make diaries on here?

  • Tbone

    would be annoying. LOL

  • bzip

    Please tell me where on the below list (and it is well documented with videos) that I can find even a clue to Cain’s conservative values:

    Cain was pro-choice or is pro-life
    Cain supported TARP
    Cain was for an electric fence or not
    Cain is for exchanging GITMO prisoners or not
    Cain is not for auditing the fed or not
    Cain and racial baiting
    Cain fellow blacks are brainwashed
    Cain doesn?t understand the 2nd amendment
    Cain does seem to understand foreign policy
    Cain now supports Unions
    Cain?s 999 plan that starts a new national sales tax and VAT.
    Cain?s 999 plans that adds empowerment zones (affirmative action).

  • Tbone

    Cain ain’t the frontrunner. Watch Cain be the dumbest guy in the room on Libya and then tell me you would want him in the White House.

  • gracie

    because I did not hear compliments in his voice. I also heard him tell somebody they did not miss a thing when they missed the debate…wrong!!

    Guess I was ready for some down and out Perry credit for a change
    .
    Now I do not have the advantage of reading the transcript. AND admit to avoiding all of them for a week until they get off covering for Cain
    .
    Bottom line I heard it in bits and pieces so give this one to ya tyman!

    Gratefully, I am sick,sick, sick of them all being against Rick.

  • paladin1

    snarky replies but I will make an exception in your case seth…..no, I won’t; just, “Goodbye”.

  • Tbone

    Watch it and tell us he is something above totally clueless.

  • conservativemusician

    n/t

  • txpat

    Is next debate?

  • texasref

    There really is nothing anyone can say to the statistical facts you pointed out. The only thing the anti-Cainiacs can say is that you’re in denial?

    Home run, Jimmy.

    Happy that Cain is still standing strong.

  • pttx333

    d

  • nathanalbright

    …that a week of summer in my “home” city (Tampa) will favor the delegates who can handle the heat and humidity better? This is shaping up to be an interesting campaign season, though I’m with acat that I would rather not live in such interesting times. If that is your curse, though, it is what it is.

  • Tbone

    Cain couldn’t remember what someone told him to say about a subject he had no core understanding of. That is pure, unadulterated ignorance. Cain is an empty suit.

  • greyeagle

    There is nothing wrong with Perry’s intelligence. Just because you don’t support him, does not make him stupid. In fact at this last debate, he is more like the Perry that I know. I will continue to support Governor Perry and will vote for him in the primary. By the way, I am from TX.

  • texasref

    with all his power, and you’re saying the moderates pulled him back?

    Maybe you’re right, but I doubt it.

    If you are right, then how come when the conservative (Newt) is the speaker, he gets pulled left, but when the moderate (John) is the speaker, he stays left?

  • goformitt

    It made it obvious Cain had no understanding of the events in Libya. None. Truly sad, and hard to watch this guy die such a slow and painful death. But there is no doubt he is terminal.

    So lets see … that leaves Mitt, Newt and Ron Paul.

    Interesting.

  • txpat

    The same email I emailed to them on Sunday.
    I think I will send it to them every day until I get a response.

  • pttx333

    Remember Operation Chaos? He has a strategy, and I will bet anything that it is he will be endorsing Perry down the line. That is the way Rush’s mind works – I cannot even begin to see he would be “for” anyone else, given the field we have. With everything I’ve ever heard Rush say down through the years, I do not read him as anything other than working a strategy. Think about it. Pushes Cain, knowing he will implode at some point, Newt is more than likely unelectable under any circumstances, so that would leave Perry vs. Mitt. Guess who wins that one? Does that compute to you? He never reveals exactly what he is doing, except for Operation Chaos.

  • goformitt

    I guess we haven’t seen Huntsman float to the top yet. But I suspect once Newt gets vetted (and it aint really vetted, more like reminding people why he has never been a serious candidate before) that we leave Mitt and Huntsman.

    Who knows, maybe Huntsman will be a late bloomer?

  • greyeagle

    The poll has very high sampling errors. This far out, the poll has no significance. CNN is known for sampling a lot more democrats than republicans.

  • gekster

    Posters who support Perry are paid, on his staff, and now are trolls.

    Cain is imploding , by his own hands, and your upset with Perry supporters.
    I don’t follow the logic.
    Tell me what Cain has done, besides talk a good game, that makes you believe he is the most conservative.
    Is it his lying about not knowing of the settlements, only to remember later in the same day that he remembers them.
    It is his at least three different stories about the settlements that he didn’tknow, and then did know about.
    Is it his blaming Perry for the leak, with no eveidence of it, and them blaming others, still with no evidence,all the whiles claiming that the accusers had no evidence against him.
    Is it his trying to deflect the question he was asked during the debate, so someone else would answer, so he could get a clue to what the answer might be. Like he did with the sit down with Newt several times,
    Tell me seth. What makes Cain a conservative.
    And running a business successfull business doesn’t count.
    There are several liberals who run successfull businesses.
    Share your wisdom with us, o wise one.

  • texasref

    Perry can’t speak in public and Mitt can’t keep a position for longer than about 7 years MAX. That leaves Cain or Newt.

    And there’s a huge difference between sexual harassment and infidelity. Harassment can get you fired; infidelity, a private affair.

    So the few Republican primary voters who have their panties bunched about the Cain allegations aren’t going to have as much to be mad about with Newt.

    I prefer Cain over Newt for two simple reasons:

    1. Dede
    2. Scozzafava

  • Scope

    and were obviously very wrong. They can’t admit the error of their ways, and Cain will eventually take them down with him. I still believe that they are behind Cain because our black guy is better than their black guy. Nothing beyond that makes any sense. I started out thinking that they were in a war with the leftist media, and that was their goal. It has now moved way far beyond that when they still prop up a now widely known dud. Then again, they are all on Fox news radio.

  • pttx333

    b

  • paladin1

    consistent! :) Governor Perry is far from terminal but it obviously pains you to contemplate it. Ron Paul (and his followers) is nothing more than an interesting sideshow; in reality, you have to agree.

  • txindependent

    Neither O’Reilly or Hannity mentioned the Cain gaffe.

  • greyeagle

    I disagree. It is still too early to choose a likely candidate. Perry is not done yet, and seems to be doing better. He also got in very late.

  • txindependent

    not a representative.

  • txpat

    Cain
    For tarp
    Doesn’t think fed bank reserve needs an audit
    Likes collective bargaining for unions
    Gee that mighty conservative.
    Please let me know if I am mistaken, Cain has walked any of these back.

  • gekster

    First, you have to be smarter than Perry.
    If you ain’t figured it out, then I guess you are not.

  • changeforrickperry

    nt
    ______________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • greyeagle

    Maybe he had a TIA, transient ischemic attack. This is often called a mini-stroke. He looked like he was not aware for a short time rather than what happened to Perry.

  • goformitt

    He comes off as a pompous bully when he “takes on” the media. He’s not nearly as brilliant as he thinks he is, and not nearly as conservative as you think he is. I’m looking at his ethanol position.

  • txindependent

    General Election: Romney vs. Obama CNN/Opinion Research Obama 47, Romney 51 = Romney +4
    General Election: Gingrich vs. Obama CNN/Opinion Research Obama 53, Gingrich 45 = Obama +8
    General Election: Cain vs. Obama CNN/Opinion Research Obama 53, Cain 43 = Obama +10
    General Election: Perry vs. Obama CNN/Opinion Research Obama 52, Perry 45 = Obama +7

    Granted it’s within the margin of error, but it seems like Perry has not lost ground after his major gaffe. And this does not include his great debate performance on Saturday. Since the other non-Romney’s seem to have unelectable qualities (Cain – foreign policy, no govt experience; Newt – is Newt), Perry could come back if he keeps performing well in debates, since debating skills seem to be his biggest negative.

  • conservativemusician

    With the fact that he is a weak candidate who does not have command of the issues. When he is asked difficult questions, he is showing how vapid a candidate he really is. As I said to Tbone above, it is not enough to dodge specifics by saying you need all the facts to make a decision.

    Tbone is also right in that Cain does not really have conservative core convictions – and this to me is his biggest weakness. Every president has trusted advisors, but the presidency is not the same as being a business CEO as much as Cain would like it to be. He can’t just farm out the tough decisions he has to make to a committee.

    For me, I would be comfortable with a Perry/Gingrich or Gingrich/Perry ticket at this point.

  • txpat

    Has a vote on who you think won the debate Saturday,
    Who you would vote for out of the GOP.
    The results show that on the debate Newt is 1st place, and Cain is in 2nd place.
    On the GOP who would you vote for Cain is leading huge margin.
    I wonder how many multiple votes Cain folks have done?

  • Xasteius

    2 cups flour
    1 lb cottage cheese (yes, this is right)
    1/2 lb butter (can be decreased to 1/4 lb butter without affecting the recipe)
    1 tsp salt (optional)

    Let butter thaw until soft and mix with cottage cheese. Put in flour and salt, and mix well. Put the result into the fridge for ~ 2-4 hours or until the mixture is doughy instead of gooey. Roll out flat and cut into triangles. Optional: sprinkle sugar and cinnamon to taste. Bake in oven @ 400 degrees until brown.

  • avagreen

    Good news, what?

    (watching latest Harry Potter on Dish right now ;) )

  • goformitt

    So now, in order to decide which GOP candidate we’ll support we have to figure out if infidelity when your current wife is seriously ill is worse than sexual assault.

    Great. Glad we’ve come to this. /sarcasm

    I’m getting very depressed about our prospects. I mean, people are actually talking about someone coming out of the woodwork? And it’s November – a few weeks before the caucus?

    Sheesh!

  • txpat

    I agree Perry did well on clean up and I think the polls show that.

  • goformitt

    By Cain’s accuser was sexual assault.

  • superpatriot

    If Perry lacks real intelligence, why:

    1. Has he created the greatest number of new jobs in Texas

    2. Has he won every political race he’s been in

    Just curious.

  • gekster

    Perry did quite well. No problem speaking at all.
    Are you just going with what the left says.
    Are you actually doing reaserch on the candidates, or are you letting others think for you. You know, the easy way out.
    And these are legit questions to you, so I would appreciate an answer.
    You don’t have to answer, but I would like you to.

  • nathanalbright

    That video is horrible. Could he even find Libya on a map?

  • retire05

    on the RightScoop poll.

    I voted for Perry last night on it, then to test it, voted for Perry again this a.m., came back here, then returned to RightScoop and voted for Perry again.

    Seems Cainiacs are doing the same thing Paul supporters do, spamming a poll.

  • jimmyg

    In the Fav/Unfav competition, Romney, after running for president for serveral years is doing marginally better than the field. Cain is sliding down, Gingrich up.

    The Republican electorate is dissatisfied with the field. The electorates first impression of Rick Perry is sticking. One decent debate on a Saturday night is not likely to change their mind. Perry is in a deep hole, but for the time being it appears he stopped digging. Cain is still digging.

  • pttx333

    Interesting that they didn’t mention old wickerdoodle – already forgotten his name. See how fast it goes? LOL

  • txpat

    In a warp way they were for Cain because the GOP is always being called racist?
    Maybe they thought if they had treated Cain like any one else the liberal media would have thrown out the race card on them?
    It’s just a thought.

  • supergirl2911

    nt
    Better than the link that took me to Morris’ website, although I don’t remember who did that.

  • txpat

    Instead I went to the trouble to vote for Perry from work computer, and my IPhone.
    Here I was trying to be legit about it.
    Hee, Hee!

  • nathanalbright

    To make it even tastier?

  • Tbone

    nt

  • gekster

    That and all the paid Perry staff and trolls dealing out facts to him were more than he could handle.
    He says he won’t be back untill all Perry supporters are banned.

    File it under, ‘wahhh, I’m taking my ball and going home.

    Words of wisdom from seth:

    Are you a paid troll?
    No way you would behave the way you do and spend as much time and energy doing it if you weren?t getting paid.

    and this gem:
    You people are a joke. I?m done here until or unless they bring some sanity and balance to this site. The first thing they should do is ban all paid Perry trolls.

    (both quotes on this thread)

  • tyman

    The one about shutting down Iran’s Central Bank was just brilliant.

    The “starting with $0″ was great.

    Perry’s got some great plans that reflect real conservatism. Only people who look at the so-called negative issues on the surface or what the media wants you to see won’t see Perry’s conservative pragmatism in those issues.

    Right bzip, if you have doubts about Perry or you think the field is weak, you owe it to this country to see what the REAL Perry is about!

  • texasref

    I do watch most of the debates. I didn’t watch the last one because CBS online didn’t have enough bandwidth and my tv was broke that night.

    I’m tired of Perry screwing up. I want a competent president. Perry is not. But I’d prefer him a million times more than Romney and a billion times more than Obama.

    I research the candidates and appreciate the analysis of others.

  • nathanalbright

    …Perry’s funding is going to RedState commenters.

  • texasref

    of whether Cain can stop digging and regain clear frontrunner status instead of shaky frontrunner status, and whether Newt can improve his numbers at the expense of someone other than Cain if Cain does stop the slide.

    I wouldn’t exaggerate Cain’s slide.

  • jimmyg

    go to rcp, click on the poll, and you can look at the cross tabs. The fav/unfav I cited are of republicans only.

  • Flagstaff

    Don’t propagate misinformation.

  • mich22

    at all costs has been a low point in the careers of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, and don’t even get me started on FOXNews! I have been watching CNN more than ever before, because at least they give us the news. Fox didn’t even cover the Sharon Bialek press conference live. It was ridiculous. My family spoke about it after the fact and we all noticed that the other networks were covering it, so we switched. Just because they didn’t like it doesn’t mean it wasn’t an important news story. I’m so disappointed in my talk show hosts that I love so well. After the egg is washed off their faces, I’m sure I’ll come back, but I have a hard time listening to their illogical defenses of Cain at the present moment.

  • texasref

    Now will you tell me the answer to my question?

  • goformitt

    Fair and balanced? They’ve been biased from day 1. Total political agenda. They have NO journalistic integrity and never have. Remember the polls done years ago that showed Fox viewers were totally misinformed about the run up to Iraq?

    Wonder why?

  • gekster

    The whole debate is in the diary at the top of the recco list.
    It is to the top right.
    The debate vids are in the comments.
    Have a look, and then decide if he can speak.
    And also do a search in the search box, also towards the top to the right.
    Punch in ‘rick perry red state’.
    A lot of interview vids by Erick in there.
    I think you will be suprised.

  • texasref

    Just wow.

    Next!

  • gekster

    And I thought I would poke fun at someone who appears to be ill informed.
    You don’t get elected three times as governor by being not-intelligent.

    As far as the diaries thing goes, it was a gotcha statement.
    They are working on it.
    It got flubbed up with the last update, and should be working (I am told) in a few days.

  • goformitt

    Why is it we insist on supporting dummies?

    I mean, I’m just frustrated as he!!. Why do we Republicans insist on supporting people who know nothing about the world we live in? Does that seem like a winning program?

    Seriously – and this is not a rhetorical question – why do Republicans have so little respect for knowledge, experience – a sophisticated understanding of our complex world?

    We have a candidate that knows his head from hid arse when it comes to global politics, tax policy, economics, etc – why do we down play this and promote simple minded dim whits?

    The GOP is going to become a distant memory if we don’t knock it off.

  • gekster
  • texasref

    I like Rick Perry, but I have higher expectations of my president in terms of communication and intelligence than what he has demonstrated.

    By the way, I voted for Medina for governor.

  • texasref

    I did it in part because it struck me as “the heighth [sic] of arrogance” not to agree to debates or newspaper interviews during the governor’s race.

    Now I know why he didn’t.

  • goformitt

    Fox and Rush know that half their viewing audience hates them. So Rush’s job is to keep the hate flowing. Thats why he is supporting Cain.

    Same with O’ Reilly. They have to keep the emotion up to keep the viewers coming back – whether they love ‘em or hate ‘em. Makes no difference to these guys – the money is their only consideration.

    And the viewers are all dupes.

  • goformitt

    I hope you enjoy being played for the fool.

  • haumea

    It’s that kind of pant-wetting that has allowed the left to burrow in all our national institutions in this country.

    Newt challenges the Gramscian narrative, Mitt goes with the flow.

    Mitt will manage the decline quite nicely. Barf!

  • haumea

    …it sorta depends how far back you look.

    I think the results of this election were determined around the time Obama’s moonbat base decided that “No drama Obama” was to their liking. This set the course for the Obama presidency and the natural anti-Obama counter.

    His radicalism was to be countered by massive reaction to the decades of left-wing cultural hegemony.

    The only candidate who genuinely grasps this is Newt. Which is why I think he’ll win.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and, even if it isn’t broadcast immediately, assuredly, a video will emerge.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    Assuming most Cainiacs self-identify with the TEA Party Movement, they will eschew moving to Mitt.

    They may now be gravitating to The Newt, but this serves to clarify the “chaos” with deterministic conclusions [as I noted earlier, while quoting Wikipedia].

    Notwithstanding the “noise” about Huntsman and Paul, the anti-Mitt battle is rapidly evolving predictably, particularly noting the ABSENCE of any meaningful enhancement of the third-tier ["waiting in the wings for others to falter"] candidates [Santorum, Bachmann, Johnson, Rohmer].

    I also agree that all of The Newt’s rhetorical skills will ultimately not suffice when recognizing the character of the targeted-audience [evangelical, etc.].

    As long as Mitt’s glass-ceiling remains impenetrable [despite the best efforts of the GOP-establishment], Perry retains hope [and, perhaps, the inside-track] if he maintains his post-debate focus [although, as posted elsewhere, he lost a golden opportunity to force-educate the public about the need to dismantle DC's bureaucracy during Thursday's media-blitz].

  • nathanalbright

    …you’re going for Mitt and that appears to be one thing Conservative Republicans aren’t interested at all. It would appear they’d rather broker a total unknown who isn’t even in the running than to accept Mittens as their standard bearer. How does that feel?

  • bzip

    Perry to outline plan to ‘dismantle’ Washington
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/perry-to-outline-plan-to-dismantle-washington/

    Rick Perry Vows to ?Uproot? Three Branches of Government
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/rick-perry-vows-to-uproot-three-branches-of-government/

  • jlsankot

    I listen to Rush and Levin and have not heard either one push for Cain. When did they endorse and what were their reasons? Apparently, I missed it.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …and will be the second-to-the-last person [after Paul] to gain any non-Pauite supporters [either TPM or establishment].

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    According to the man himself, “The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.”

  • wbf

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/11/newt-gingrich-no-conservative

    Gingrich will get a closer look. I don’t think we will like what we see.

  • nathanalbright

    …does anyone have any idea on how common this problem is? I would think that some Congressmen would be very tempted to profit off of information if they knew a particular company was going to get a federal grant in a new pork-barrel bill. Only an honorable man would be able to avoid that kind of temptation, and we’re a little short of honorable politicians in Congress.

  • pttx333

    I’ve heard it referred to as the “silly season” and suppose it is on many levels. Culling out the ones who have unelectable stamped all over them is not easy nor is it pleasant. But, nevertheless, that is what the process is all about.

    Now, my candidate is Perry, as I’m sure you know. The main reason why he has always been by choice is that I have voted for him for years, disagreed with him on occasion, but in the final analysis, he is my choice because I’ve had the good fortune to observe and to live with his governance. So to me I’d rather have a bird (a known one) in the hand than two or even twelve unknown birds from the bush. But that is just me.

    IMHO, with the exception of one or two candidates, all of the rest have good credentials and can be very valuable in positions other than the presidency only because, also IMHO, they do not have the leadership skills that I see in a candidate. That’s it in a nutshell.

    To me, this is the most important election of my lifetime – I’m 71, female. I have my social concerns, very much so, but the way I look at it is that we live during an extraordinary time in which the world is a ticking time bomb. Our economy is down the drain, and intentionally created IMHO, so we are looking at two major issues here. My take is that we need a leader, a strong leader, who will courageously and in no uncertain terms with no waffling or stalling, take control to turn around those two things ASAP, otherwise we are doomed quite soon. Without security and safety for the citizenry of this beloved nation of ours and the economy down the drain, we have no choice. Those are my main issues at this time. If we are blown to bits or starving, then all of the other issues aren’t even on the radar for me. So, my choice is Perry for those reasons, and we’ll just work out the other details later.

    Sorry for this long post, goformitt, but I had to relate it to you. I know you are confused somewhat, just as I’ve been many times during the past – it is just that this year, finally, I have the luxury of already having my choice picked out before he even announced.

    Good luck in your quest for the right thing to do for you.

  • ihateliberals

    he will soon be history. He’s not worth the effort now to save. there is still time for Newt to push Cain aside and take his spot. when we get to the actual polls where real people are putting their two cents in Newt will float to the top and it wil be a Romany Gingrich fight to the finish. If there is to be any chance to beat Obama it will not be with Mitt Romney. There has to be a conservative on the Republican ticket to pull the disenchanted Republicans back to save the Party just as they did in 2010. Without the Tea Party vote the Republicans can’t win. They have to figure out that Romney can not pull in enough Tea Party votes to get a win. Like it or not Romney’s religion is gong to play a bigger role later on as is his Liberal politics like Romneycare which is the foundation on which Obamacare was built. Bottom line is no conservative on the ticket no Republican win. I don’t care what the analyst and alleged experts are saying this is what will happen. The anti-conservative attitude of the Republican party will be the Ross Perot of 2012.

  • bzip

    The vetting process goes ion for Newt.

    With the $300,000 mentioned in the debate that Newt got from Fannie stuff the crony capitalism charge is going to be made.

    Video: Gingrich’s connection with Freddie Mac
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/video-gingrichs-connection-with-freddie-mac/

    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2011/11/14/tsr-sylvester-gingrich-freddie-mac.cnn

  • celador2

    Those poll numbers represent a duped audience’s longings who stand in line for magic snake oil sold on media stages of debates. Thats why Newt Gingrich a venomous wordssmith is so high in rankings.

    Newt Gingrich like Rudy Guiliani will flop with voters when his wife cannot pass the smell test. Judith Nathan failed to answer the puff question repooters ask wives-
    -”When and how did you meet your husband’

    Even Bill and Hillary ran with that one well and have told about their eyes meeting across a crowded room in law school. Judith can not recall when or where she met Rudy.

    Newt was Speaker in 1999 and his caucus would not reeelct him as they were going to impeach pres Clinton for Monica. Newt resigned his seat and continued to live in exile in VA.

    A tabloid ran a story showing Newt and the current wife who has all the Tifanny jewelry, Before they were married and before he was divorced he was involved. He dated her while Speaker when she worked at Ag Committee. My my

    Newt’s second wife Marianne gave an interview and said he cheated on her while givng family values speeches he said no one else could deliver them so he did.

    He will not get my vote anymore than would Rudy Guiliani. Rudy kickd his wife and kids out of Gracie mansion before he even told them he was leaving them on TV. Newt lied about his marriage and bond with Christ one night on TV. He was a lair and cheater Converting to Catholicism and marrying his partner in sin he says saved him.

    Not in my eyes
    .

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Next!

  • pttx333

    did not debate yet still won for the 3rd term – and handily at that? Not to mention, very serious contenders and a lot of them. Amazing.

  • arthurmanger17

    I hear Jeb Bush’s name being bantered about. It is interesting reading a lot of the posts here. It alludes to a desperation of the insider politicos to have some influence, any influence, PLEASE! listen to us.
    “Timothy Leary’s dead, no he just outside looking in”. Moody Blues.

  • kellyinthetexaspanhandle

    look at the speech gov. perry gave in Iowa yesterday (14th). awesome job! he is coming on strong. get ready! go to Iowa with me on 1-2 to help this man get elected. we need his leadership now more than ever!!!

  • arthurmanger17

    and for that they threw everything but the kitchen sink at him. 84 ethic violation were charged 83 dropped and the one that stuck, teaching a 20 hour collage course of all things, titled Renewing American Civilization. Oh my, how could he do such a despicable thing.

  • arthurmanger17

    A Republican taking on the media, successfully I might add. Who are you people that are coming up with such lame arguments.

  • arthurmanger17

    can’t have that. Some of those posting here sound down left silly.

  • acat

    That cover?

    Yeah. The press went after him with everything they could make up.

    The problem I have is not with any of his baggage, but with his character.

    Ace of Spades author Maetenloch tucked a well thought out article on Newt into the overnight thread over there – the key source is a Business Insider piece.

    I respect Gingrich’s brainpower, but I want someone with a tad more wisdom holding his leash.

    Perry/Gingrich .. no problem!

    Gingrich with DeMint as Senate Majority Leader – could live with that.

    Gingrich with Paul Ryan as House Majority Leader – I’d be willing to roll those dice…

    Without someone to act as a check and balance on Newt, I do not trust him.

    Mew

  • arthurmanger17

    It wasn’t Lewinski as the lefties kept saying the scandal was about. It was the sexual assault on Paula Jones by then governor Clinton. Then later President Clinton lied under oath, for which he was convicted, fined and disbarred. No wonder you don’t like Newt he bashed poor Bill.

  • acat

    Or did you mean where Perry showed clear understanding of the situations in Iran and Pakistan?

    Was there something else you were referring to?

    Mew

  • Spartan4Life

    He was unaware that federal workers did not have collective bargaining when asked whether they should.

    He also came out in favor of state employees collective bargaining and then started backtracking with some mumbo jumbo about “as long as they don’t go too far” or some such nonsense.

    Please think people. Herman is not qualified, has never been qualified, and won’t be qualified next week. Everyone off the Cain Train. Find another candidate.

  • bzip

    It appears Romney and Cain declined this AARP interview:

    Perry – Complete Interview AARP – November 14, 2011
    http://youtu.be/cCjvloLOL28

  • Poon_Tang

    Maybe there wouldn’t be so many whackjob Republican candidates if there weren’t so many whackjob Republican/teabaggers drawing them out from under their rocks.

  • bzip

    Today, in Bettendorf, Iowa, Governor Perry will be announcing his third domestic policy initiative: Government Reform. His first two initiatives were:

    1. Energizing American Jobs & Security (Pittsburgh, PA, OCTOBER 14) ? Creates 1.2 million good American jobs by opening up federal lands and waters to energy production. All of the above energy policy, including oil, gas, coal and renewables. Creating 1.2 million jobs in energy sector and reducing reliance on hostile foreign oil.

    2. Cut, Balance and Grow economic/tax reform plan (Greenville, SC, OCTOBER 25) – Cuts personal and corporate income taxes to a flat 20%. Eliminating corporate tax loopholes, and ending taxation of capital gains, dividends and Social Security benefits. Entitlement reforms for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Balances federal budget by 2020 by cutting spending, growing the economy, capping federal spending at 18% of GDP and a federal Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution.

    Here’s #3 to be announced in Bettendorf TODAY:

    UPROOT AND OVERHAUL WASHINGTON
    ….
    ….

    To hear more about Governor Perry?s plans to overhaul Washington, tune in to hear him live on Glenn Beck Radio at 9:35am ET/ 8:35am CT and Sean Hannity Radio at 4:05pm ET/3:05pm CT today.

  • Poon_Tang

    How much are they paying you to post this nonsense. If you still support Perry after all his dunderhead moves, you are too incompetent to vote.

  • bzip

    Perry did a great job on the interview yesterday. I posted the YouTube video below. Perry always does a wonderful job in his interviews.

    I found it odd, Cain and Romney declined this same interview.

  • bzip

    We have a official liberal troll alert.

  • arthurmanger17

    How dare they Newt and Cain treat reporters like that? Who are you people?

  • texasroots

    CNN.com live at 10:30 am today shows Perry in Iowa where he is to present his “dismantle” Washington plan. I hope the sound works. Last night I tuned in to Perry’s GOP Scott County dinner and no sound.

  • nathanalbright

    You don’t have much room to talk. What candidate do you support, and do they have any well-thought out initiatives? Or are you just trolling?

  • nathanalbright

    Someone needs to do some troll extermination.

  • arthurmanger17

    out of context. Never heard that before, what a stretch, say it isn’t so.

  • Poon_Tang

    I used that name, because if anyone needs a laugh it is a Republican.

    I think Huntsman is the best bet, but he isn’t seriously considered because he’s not crazy.

  • romansdaughter

    But I really want to say thank you for posting all these things on Rick Perry. I am over here in Brazil right now and I really appreciate hearing about Rick Perry. Thanks so much!

  • arthurmanger17

    You think CNN did any with the Cain interview. I know it’s unheard of.

  • nathanalbright

    …in case you didn’t notice, this site is called Red State. Posters here are to represent and support conservatives and conservatism. The moderators of this site vigorously hunt and ban those who insult conservatives as you have. There are plenty of forums available for purplestaters or bluestaters like you are. Find them, and use them. Liberal trolls are not welcome here. Hello and goodbye.

  • gekster

    Just what is that.

  • Poon_Tang

    Censorship and banning opposing views is certainly a Republican mantra, but you don’t speak for all of them Adolph. I live and vote in a red state, so my views are as valuable as anyone’s. P.S. tell your mama I won’t be coming around anymore until she resumes shaving her back.

  • arthurmanger17

    Such clever people over there.

  • red_oakster

    Cain’s policy flubs seem to building his own ceiling, but the campaign is going to take a hiatus for Thanksgiving and I don’t see signs that Cain’s campaign has been deflated. In the meantime Cain can keep campaigning. I expect the next chapter will be about Newt’s shortcomings. I’m sticking with the barroom brawl analogy: disorderly and unresolved.

  • Poon_Tang

    Are the tea partiers not big supporters of Cain, Perry, and Bachmann–arguably the biggest clowns in the race. Why are they not supporting Huntsman–a true conservative and decent guy?

  • bzip

    I enjoy doing it and I feel everyone should have as much information on the candidates as possible to make a informed decision.

    Hope you are enjoying Brazil my spouse is from Argentina.

  • gekster

    Please take note.
    Great argument idiot. Going for the quickest ban?

  • arthurmanger17

    Obama’s staff could not have dumped on Fox any better.

  • gekster

    Shouldn’t you be in school now.
    Isn’t today show and tell.

  • arthurmanger17

    You guys are with moveon.org.

  • changeforrickperry

    1 can (4 1/2 oz.) chopped onions
    1 can (10 oz.) tomatoes and green chilies
    2 tablespoons cider vinegar
    1 tablespoon olive oil
    2 ripe tomatoes, diced
    1 small onion, chopped
    1/8 teaspoon garlic powder
    1 teaspoon salt
    1/4 teaspoon black pepper

    Mix all ingredients; cover and store in refrigerator. Serve with tortilla chips. Serves 15 to 20 persons.

    Courtesy of Carl McQueary’s “Dining at the Governor’s Mansion”

    (http://books.google.com/books?id=78ICNunND8IC&printsec=frontcover&dq=texas+first+ladies+cookbook&hl=en&ei=EoLCTuWKG8KUiALPirj7Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=texas%20first%20ladies%20cookbook&f=false)
    ____________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • texasroots

    Great interview. I truly believe Perry will be only one with the guts to stop the raiding of the social security fund! So I hope the AARP members, of which, I am one will take heed.

  • arthurmanger17

    The Factor, Hannity and On the Record are usually taped.

  • pttx333

    h

  • arthurmanger17

    Mich22, I can see you are a true believer. Will you make a donation? Mr Soros is a little low on money right now and could use your help besides these great posts for the cause.

  • gekster

    but if ya really want to spice it up, use a small habanero pepper in it,
    or a large one if you’re brave.
    I got to likeing them when I lived in Texas in the 80′s.
    Whooooweee they are hot!

  • arthurmanger17

    All I’ve read by those who support Perry is cry, cry cry, Against any and every body that does not openly support him. Character assassination is not even above the fold. It has decidedly taken a turn to the left.

  • changeforrickperry

    A creme brulee, a punch recipe, and an apple pie. Google won’t let you see the entire apple pie recipe, though I think you can see all the ingredients. What’s really neat is that the book goes all the way back to Margaret Houston’s recipes. Definitely on my Christmas wish list!
    ______________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • arthurmanger17

    doesn’t it.

  • annie54

    problem, but he led the Israelites to the promised land.

    Aaron was his press secretary and spoke for him.

    Wouldn’t Gingrich make a good press secretary?

  • gekster

    How is supporting Perry a turn to the left.

  • changeforrickperry

    That’ll keep you awake all night with heartburn, won’t it? ______________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • pttx333

    tad will give the mostest besterest flavor. NUM. I use a similar recipe, except instead of Ro-tel, I use just the fresh tomatoes, onions, diced garlic and fresh jalapenos. But, here’s the secret part of my recipe … add chopped cilantro (some folks think it tastes like coal oil, but I love it and use it in lots of foods! HA) and squeeze in a little juice from a fresh lime. That’ll make you slap yo mama for shore.

    Where did you live in TX? You are just the original mystery man … so, out with it. Tell us your story, pretty please.

    Mom

  • gekster

    I handle it just fine.
    One thing I liked in Texas was the roadhouses.
    They would have jars of jalopenas like we have jars of pickled eggs here in Michigan.
    I would get into jalopena eating contests with the bravest of them, and never lost.
    We would get the jar, a picture of beer, and put the money bet under the beer.
    We would match pepper to pepper, and who ever grabbed the beer first,
    the other could grab the money.
    Like I said, I never lost.
    Sweated alot, but never lost.

  • pttx333

    great at it, but perhaps he is way over-qualified for that position. I’m thinking he would be valuable in several other areas of importance (not v/p, in my view) to utilize his knowledge and analytical skills.

    Good thought, annie. Really good thought. Newtie would be good in a lot of areas, but I don’t choose him to be President. But that is just me and my little opinion. Thank you so very much for asking me, annie – I appreciate it.

  • Scope

    If you don’t know what his posting name means, look it up. I guarantee you will delete it

  • Scope

    What are canned onions? I don’t know if I ever saw canned onions. Otherwise I am going to write down this recipe, it sounds wonderful.

  • earlgrey

    I did.

  • gekster

    I moved to Texas in 80, during the big heat wave in June.
    In Michigan at the time, you couldn’t even get a gas station job because of Mr. Carters excelent handleing of the economy.
    I lived in Pasadena near Houston, on the ship channel, and worked for Stran Steel as an ironworker.
    In 85 I moved to Elgin, near Bastroph where the fires were, working for Kelkenburg constuction.
    In 86, My wife wanted to move back to Michigan,
    so I came back in December, 86.
    Her Dad was getting sick all the time, and she wanted to be near him.
    He was 69 at the time, and died the next year, rest his soul.
    I live in Grand Blanc now, have 4 kids and 8 grandkids.
    My oldest son Donald Paul, enlisted in the army on his birthday in October the year after 9-11. He was in Kawait when The Iraqi war started, and was in the 4th ID, that was in the initial push up through Bagdad, and they stopped when they got to Baquba. I have wrote about him here, and am very proud of him.
    I retired in 07 from TRW at the age of 53.
    Even though we call it the Peoples Republic of Michigan, I like it.
    Our new Governor Snyder is rolling us back from the disaster that was Granholm,
    and things are slowly picking up.
    I have the house that is 4 houses down from where my Parents lived when I was born.
    I found Red State in Oct, 08, and have loved it every since.
    I have to say that God has smiled on me, and for that I am very gratefull.

  • Scope

    I won’t even repeat it.

  • pttx333

    lot of fun! If I liked beer, I might enjoy that one – just give me a coke, though, and I’ll be fine. Yep, like New Mexico, we love our peppers. You can find pickled peppers and fresh peppers all over the place.

    I’ll tell you, those peppers (all of ‘em) are just great! They would probably cure most any ailment cuz germs wouldn’t want to live in the same area as they do. HA Are you familiar with poblano peppers? They are quite large, and used to make chilies rellenos – stuff the deveined poblano with cheese/seasoned h.b. meat, roll in flour and fry, eat with a sort of chile con queso type of sauce on top – oh, my, food from the angels.

    You should grow some peppers up there, gek, if you don’t already. Absolutely no pest touches them in the garden, and I don’t blame them. HA I like to use them while cooking a lot of things – great in pinto beans, along with my beloved cilantro.

    You sound like my son with the peppers. He eats them like candy …

  • 1bunny

    to cry I was so happy after reading Perry’s “uprooting ” plan. What a bold plan to add to the others he has released.

    One of my favorite parts:

    ‘By changing the way Congress operates, and moving towards a part-time legislature, Congressman will have the freedom to live in their communities, engage their constituents, and truly speak for the people they represent. Rules preventing members of Congress from holding private sector jobs must also be repealed. ? When lawmakers hold the same types of jobs as their constituents, they will gain a much greater understanding of how congressional laws impact the real world.’

    Well this takes the elite out of DC and returns them to living and associating with us the little people : ) Maybe this way they can start relating to the rest of the U.S. and quit running roughshod over us.

    The plan is posted on rickperry.org so it can be read and also view the charts that reinforces the plan. Awesome, awesome plan.

  • arthurmanger17

    Reading the posts by Perry supporters today one thing has stood out. The viciousness of the attacks on the other candidates and anyone that does not support Perry. Some of the post are on the edge of being insane. These types of arguments are not an attribute you find when conservatives are engage in any discussion, whether it be economics, education or politics. These posts are the type you see on leftist web sites. Every talking point, attack and reasoning as been written before on a variety of subjects that the left engages in. The style is the same the incoherence is the same, the insanity is the same. It is what you find at moveon.org or media matters. It is what you hear on MSNBC all the time and CNN a good deal of the time. These posts were not made by conservatives who might support Perry. These posts were written by those with the mental disorder Leftism and some I dare say, in the advance stages of the disease. In all it was quite an education in desperation.

  • Scope

    Caribbean Red Hot’s? I grew them this year, along with orange habaneros and jalapenos, just for a lark really. I like spicy, but not killer hot. The Red’s were higher on the Scoville scale than even the habaneros. Sorry for the misspellings. I planted 6 of each variety and provided everyone within 10 miles of me with baskets filled with them. I couldn’t keep up with harvesting them all.

    My husband made a stainless steel jalapeno popper holder, and we have been roasting them on the grill. Yum Yum

    My husband cut a tiny piece off the bottom of a red and tasted it. He ran to the refrigerator for milk. I had been cleaning fresh tomatoes to freeze, and my skin pores were open. I cleaned one red to put in a pot of tomato sauce, and my hands were on fire. I ran to the computer and looked up a remedy it was so painful. Rubbing sour cream into your skin takes the worst of the pain away. I can’t imagine what it does yo your stomach. I’ll stick with the jalapenos.

  • Scope

    along with the peppers?

  • gekster

    we were in a bar after work, and I ordered a few.
    Some idjit made a snarky remark about it, and my brother bet him I could eat more than him. My brother thought up the rules, and away we went.
    I think the other guy ate four or five before he grabbed the beer.
    The worst part, another idjit wanted some of the same.
    I think I wound up eating about 12-15 peppers, and found out it was no big problem. I guess in Texas it would be called a gift. LOL
    Can’t get no one in Michigan to go for it though.
    And I hadn’t heard about those other peppers, but will surely check them out.

  • gekster

    No holds barred.

  • explodinghead

    nt

  • changeforrickperry

    I just saw the recipe a few weeks ago, but haven’t yet had the chance to try it–sorry! When I get that book for Christmas I will start baking. Thought it would be good ammo against that very offensive troll, though :)
    ______________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • pttx333

    living in Pasadena temporarily, house-sitting for my former and kinda current boss – it is the estate of his parents who are now deceased and in the process of going through probate, so I’m sorta camped out for now. I prefer to live in the Alvin, Friendswood areas – that is my comfort zone. You would not know Pearland these days – it has exploded and the yuppies have moved in. My late husband and I built a house there, and dagnabitall, here they came, just like a bunch of rodents. After he died I sold it – too big and didn’t like the snooty area it had become – and don’t want another house in my situation – too much upkeep, and I prefer being “portable” under the circumstances. My son lives just down Hwy.3 (old Galveston Rd.) in Dickinson. Oh, and I am very familiar with Stran Steel – they were a client of the firm where I worked, along with a bajillion more companies.

    Yep, your ex-gov. Granholm was the pits. What a total mess it was. Never been to Michigan but I hear it is absolutely gorgeous. And wasn’t it a good thing that your wife wanted to go back to be with her Dad? She at least got to spend the final year with him. What a wonderful life for you, gek. And I’m so happy for you that you have it. I know it was tough sending your baby boy (they are all our babies, forever), but it is such a button-popping thing for them to do well, even though scary. Was he at Ft. Hood by any chance? I think that is where the 4th ID rolled out of. I lived in a small town 25 mi. from Killeen from 04-08, but missed the mosquitoes, traffic and humidity of Houston. ;-)

    I love RS and am ever so thankful to have just stumbled onto it. I don’t even remember where I was to have found the link, but it has been a wonderful experience for me, except for being dressed down by lineholder last night. Woo, boy. Oh, well, I am who I am, gek, and can’t be anybody else.

    Good on YOU!

    Mom

  • gekster

    A spoon of sugar will take it away immediatly.
    Just ask my kids. LOL

  • pttx333

    those suckers can get ya sometimes – hot little devils, but I love ‘em.

    Have you tried stuffed jalapenos? Remove the seeds, stuff with cheese, wrap bacon around each and grill or bake! Nummers. Oh, and hubby is smart – he had to make a stainless steel holder cuz those suckers would eat through anything else. ;-) Don’t know what they do to our stomachs, but I can tell you that mine must be made of cast iron – have never in my life had indigestion! Amazing, huh.

    Thanks for the sour cream tip. But I do know that if a pepper is too hot in your mouth, don’t drink anything – grab a piece of bread or something similar to cut the fire.

  • Scope

    That is now locked in my memory bank for the next attack of the killer peppers.

  • pttx333

    to find little jars of them. As for me, I use just finely chopped fresh onions. Somewhere on this thread is how I prepare it – a reply to gek I think. Try both recipes.

  • gekster

    I lived on Thomas street, about 4-5 blocks off of 225.
    Redbluff road was close.

    And Red State is a comunity.
    And as such, it has all kinds.
    Linholder ain’t bad.
    She is just as passionate as the rest of us die hard conservatives.
    She is like the big sister you never wanted. LOL

  • Scope

    if it would be the canned French onions that you use in Green Bean casserole? It would add some crunch to the salsa. Let me know when you get the book.

  • pttx333

    and Burke, south of where you were. Redbluff sorta runs all over the place – I typically take it to go down to Kemah and Bacliff to eat at those great restaurants down on the Bay.

    Thanks for the info re big sisters and all that, gek. ;-) Maybe that doesn’t speak well for me, though, since I am the big sister with one younger sibling. HA We never fought though – I always thought he was MY baby, being 3 years older. HA

  • pttx333

    in salsa. You’ll have plenty of crunch with the diced fresh onions if you use them.

  • changeforrickperry

    Though they’re fun to eat out of the bag anyway. Thanksgiving tradition, you know…little sisters dipping their hands in after Mom sprinkles ‘em on the green beans. Yum yum yum!

    I can’t wait till a few weeks when we can throw out all our Christmas recipes and discuss those. I’ve got some good Southern ones behind my back, so beware, ye trolls :D
    ____________________________________________________________
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts.”–Winston Churchill

    www.changeforrickperry.org

  • arthurmanger17

    It’s the arguments given here for his support.

  • carolynr

    Here was the news on Perry and it is yet another solution to this big government stuff and something that you should like. Oh…before you read this…you should see the stuff that Gingrich voted for that will hang him….he might be worse than Romney.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/15/perry-calls-part-time-congress-term-limits-judges/

  • Scope

    Gingrich’s page at “on the issues” he falls almost squarely in the center of the diagram which indicates that he isn’t really of any party, but will go in any direction, and on every different issue. As so many have said, Gingrich has no base of principles to draw from and therefore comes up with free wheeling ideas one after the next which could be liberal or conservative or libertarian, or a combination of all. Gingrich is like a ticking time bomb.

  • drewmc2001

    This is very informative information.

  • romansdaughter

    I am working at a Mission school right on the Amazon. But I definitely will be voting and hopefully for Rick Perry. I love all the info you put out…very good.

  • rmacgilv

    Newt will win Iowa and North Carolina.This will come down to Gingrich versus Romney.The media,dems and republican establishment(Rove,Hume,et al) will slime Dingrich with his marital infidelity.Most people will get over it as the country needs a smart,conservative leader.Obama had to send former staffer Vera Baker to Martinique when rumors were swirling before the 2008 Presidential election about a an affair.The last guy Obama wants to debate is Newt as he’d wipe the floor with him.Newt’s the next president.

  • bzip

    I think people should be aware of the potential problems that Newt has. I am sure this is only a small portion of what is out there. Read it, decide for yourself:

    Gingrich calls GOP support for Hoffman a ‘purge’
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/64921-gingrich-calls-gop-support-for-hoffman-a-purge

    An ACORN-Friendly, Big Labor-Backing, Tax-and-Spend Radical in GOP Clothing
    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/10/16/an-acorn-friendly-big-labor-backing-tax-and-spend-radical-in-gop-clothing/

    Newt Gingrich Slept with the Enemy Part 2
    http://campaigntrailreport.com/2011/11/12/newt-gingrich-slept-with-the-enemy-part-2

    Newt Gingrich is no conservative
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/11/newt-gingrich-no-conservative

    Video: Gingrich’s connection with Freddie Mac
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/14/video-gingrichs-connection-with-freddie-mac/
    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2011/11/14/tsr-sylvester-gingrich-freddie-mac.cnn

    A good summary on: Newt Gingrich – Marital Affairs
    http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/rep_bios.php?rep_id=72471931&category=scandals&id=20110513100912

  • conservativeparrothead

    With the campaigns so split up (leaders at 25%) Ive heard that all contest prior to March or April are not winner take all. Could you see a crowded field and then someone in January decide “hey I want to be the white knight” or a strong write in showing in New Hampshire and that person enters as the anti-Romney wins some remaining states, but not enough to win the nomination???

    I would love to see it be competitive all the way through, I understand why you dont have a national primary day where all states vote at once, places like Iowa would instantly become meaningless and lose that charm which I think is important.

    But it seems after a few states, thing get very anti-climactic and candidates seem a foregone conclusion.

  • carolynr

    the more I see I see the point. People are again…talking like…he’ll mop the floor with Obama. OK…so he does…but what do we get when the dust settles?

    We’re doing what we did the last time…style over substance. One thing Gingrich is going to have a hard time with is his condescending attitude and women. He treats people like they are stupid…and that takes down his likeability.

  • arthurmanger17

    his shake up of Washington as usual. That little dot at the end is a period.

  • tyman

    I just did a Google search on Newt and sure enough Bloomberg has a story about a $1.6 million pay from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac consulting work.

    Why did they wait until he is doing so well in the polls?

    This is going to happen to all of the candidates.

    Republicans (conservatives?) should be ashamed that they’re letting the media pick their candidate.

    I saw a WaPo column that I couldn’t even finish reading: “Rick Perry, a conservative hero no longer”.

    That’s the point: the media knows what the conservatives want and they’re going down the list to try and salve us over that Romney is acceptable.

    If Romney hasn’t done any better in 6 years than he is doing now, it’s because HE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. The idea that people will gravitate to Romney and be inspired to campaign for him is preposterous. I guess the way we campaigned for McCain.

    Oh, and when Newt says that the couch ad with Nancy Pelosi was a mistake, what part was a mistake? Just the ad? Or the idea that something must be done about global warming?

    As much as I like Newt for the good that he has done, I don’t want a president who hasn’t made up his mind about global warming.

    If Newt is the nominee, I can hear the Dems dusting off the old tape of him saying that Medicare would wither on the vine (I know that’s not what he meant in context), but that’s what they played back in the 90s and it worked.

    If the worst that you can say about Rick Perry is that he isn’t a great debater or that he enacted two pieces of legislation in all of his years as governor that “may or may not be conservative” then that’s a good record, all things considered.

    The media is just laughing their collective butts off at conservatives because they think we’re going to settle for Romney after all.

  • Spartan4Life

    Remember, folks, Freddie Mac money is technically taxpayer money. Newt got $1.6M to do what, exactly? Whatever it was it didn’t work.

    Just can’t support a guy who was all too willing to be another hog at the DC trough. I think it shows a lack of character.

  • gekster

    Facts are funny thngs, you should use them.

    Gingrich Said to Be Paid By Freddie Mac to Court Republicans

    excerpt:
    Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich said during a Nov. 9 debate that he earned a $300,000 fee to advise Freddie Mac as a ?historian? who warned that the mortgage company?s business model was ?insane.?

    and:
    During the Nov. 9 debate sponsored by CNBC, Gingrich was asked what he did to earn the $300,000 consultant?s fee with Freddie Mac.

    ?I offered them advice on precisely what they didn?t do,? he said. ?My advice as a historian, when they walked in and said to me, ?We are now making loans to people who have no credit history and have no record of paying back anything, but that?s what the government wants us to do.? As I said to them at the time, this is a bubble. This is insane. This is impossible.?

  • Aaron Gardner

    See this article from Bloomberg.

    Newt Gingrich made between $1.6 million and $1.8 million in consulting fees from two contracts with mortgage company Freddie Mac, according to two people familiar with the arrangement.

  • gekster

    My article is from the day before from Bloomburg, on 11-15.
    Yours is from Bloomburg on 11-16, the next day.

    I wonder why your article didn’t come up in my search.

    And another note:
    My article: By Clea Benson and Kristin Jensen – Nov 15, 2011 12:39 PM ET

    Your article: By Clea Benson and John McCormick – Nov 16, 2011 10:45 AM ET

    I’m guessing Clea is the editor.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Candidate rises in polls, media investigate candidate, candidate gets confronted in debate, media vets answer, candidate corrects or equivocates.

    If candidate corrects, story goes away and candidate solidifies place in the polls.

    If candidate equivocates, story grows and candidate take hit in the polls leading to destruction and waiting for second look chance.

    Rinse, lather, repeat until voting ends and we have a nominee.

    Then rehash it all in the framing of a general election.

  • gekster

    Just when ya think it’s getting easy, it gets hard.
    I’ll have to do some homework on this now.
    I’m just guessing which is correct.
    And who the two people familiar with it are.

  • Spartan4Life

    He is saying he didn’t engage in “lobbying” that he was hired for his expertise in History.

    Kind of calling BS on that explanation.

  • gekster

    do you have something on the lobbying other than your opinion.
    My ciuriosity has been raised.

  • Spartan4Life

    Newt denies he did any lobbying.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-16/gingrich-said-to-be-paid-at-least-1-6-million-by-freddie-mac.html

    Seems like a lot of money for not very much return. Typical taxpayer waste. But he didn’t have to take it.

  • gekster

    and if something is an opinion, it would be nice of you to state that.
    It would save time on searching, at least on my end.
    Aw, who am I kidding, I would search anyway, just to know.

  • Scope

    the Newt Freddie ties since I read the Bloomberg story this morning.

    I believe it was in the Bloomberg article where it was noted that Gingrich started doing work for Freddie Mac in 1999, just 5 months after resigning from Congress. He apparently has had more than one contract to do work with Freddie, which his campaign does not deny, and he finally left Freddie Mac in 2008. He was paid $1.6 million, and I’m not sure if that includes a $600,000 payment, or if that is in addition.

    According to a current article posted at the Hill, Newt said that “some of the advice he gave Freddie Mac was in regards to expanding housing opportunities for minorities, and teaching people how to save money and maintain a home on low income.”

    Wasn’t the housing crash a result of “expanding housing opportunities to minorities of low income” ? Wasn’t the housing crash what ultimately lead to TARP? Newt supported TARP from what I’ve read.

    The AEI has many lengthy articles concerning the housing crash, and the roles Freddie and Fannie played in that disaster. During the time that Newt was “advising” Freddie, back in the earlier 2000′s, there were Republicans in DC that were proposing bills to better regulate, or to get some kind of control over the wildly out of control Freddie and Fannie. In 2003-04 the accounting gimmics being used for higher bonuses were uncovered. Despite the massive problems with the two GSE’s, from 2005 through 2007 the number of sub-prime loans exploded. We know what happened just a short year later.

    I don’t really care what Newt calls his role at Freddie, a historian or whatever, why was he even involved with organizations that were well known for their massive corruption and dishonesty? He said in the debate that they didn’t take his advice, and I understand that shortly after he stopped collecting money from them he blasted them for their “insanity.” If they were so insane why did he remain on the payroll for them for 9 years?

    Funny that I just watched a portion of the hearings that Issa is holding with the Fannie and Freddie CEO’s who are looking for multi-million dollar bonuses, all while Freddie has lost $72 billion dollars in the last decade, while Fannie lost $11 billion in the same time period.

    Perry should be put on a pedestal for proposing to completely privatize both entities, while Newt’s role with Freddie should be much more closely examined. What in the heck would a “historians” role be for Freddie anyway?

  • tyman

    nt

  • Spartan4Life

    Washington, DC and the crony capitalists that fund it are awash in corruption at the taxpayer expense.

    Doesn’t matter whether it is Solyndra, GM, Robert Kennedy, Freddie and Fannie execs, or whoever. The Federal Government should not be throwing around taxpayer money to prop up a corrupt system. And Newt should know better than to wet his beak at this all too easy trough.

  • Scope

    That’s pretty much what I was saying in my comment above. Why did Newt even have any ties to a long known corrupt entity to begin with.

    I’ve just read that Gingrich is supposedly going to release what records he can legally as to his contract/s with Freddie. I really don’t give a dang if he was the janitor at Freddie, he took our tax payer dollars, lots of them, in exchange for his involvement with rank corruption.

    His only argument has been, I wasn’t a “lobbyist” for Freddie, and that they paid him the money because of his time as the Speaker of the House. Again I don’t care what his role was at Freddie, he shouldn’t have had any role with them at all. Huh, but he swears he’s a Washington outsider.

  • Flagstaff

    but I’ll clear up my own.

    I agree with part of the quote: “The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax….”

    It is a terrible idea until a stake fashioned from Algore’s wooden personality and Michelle Bachmann’s titanium spine is driven through the heart of the Income Tax.

    As for a sales tax being “a disguised VAT,” I believe this comment was made by Cain about something other than his own plan, and years before this campaign. An interesting contradiction on his part at the present time, though.

    It would be more correct to call both sales taxes and VATs variations on the theme of a consumption tax. They are similar to each other in that respect, and both are susceptible to the same manipulation for partisan political gain as income taxes.

    For anybody who doesn’t realize the significant difference, a sales tax is much preferable to a VAT from an economic standpoint, primarily because of simplicity of accounting and collection (only necessary at the point of final sale, as is the case now with state sales taxes).

    OTOH, a VAT is beloved by governments because they collect most of the tax throughout the manufacturing process before the item is actually sold, in fact even if the finished product is NEVER sold. Although both formats theoretically collect the same amount of tax, the VAT is far more onerous, imposing much greater accounting, tracking, interest and collection expenses, and it adds to the cost of business for a retailer for unsold inventory and financing cost of inventory being carried (“floorplan”). To be complete–the retailer (every one of them) who finances his inventory has to finance the VAT already paid by his suppliers, something he doesn’t have to do with a simple sales tax, which means a VAT is also beloved by big-time lenders.

    I don’t think any of this is going to matter this time, but for the future it’s important to know the difference between the taxes.

  • Xasteius

    My first impulse would be ‘no’ as the recipe is already gooey enough, but…I’ve never tried it that way…

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