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Tech at Night: Google defies a judge on paid bloggers

Tech at Night

Another quick one tonight. Ah, the joys of there being no Internet crushing legislation or regulation under consideration right now.

Cue the dramatic music: While it’s true that both Oracle and Google were paying people online to write for their side (not that I was even offered a penny; I’m thinking it’s more because I’m unimportant than that I have some reputation of some sort), Google made the mistake of not complying with a judge’s order to reveal who. Uh oh.

Les ham handedly, it’s believed that Verizon played the game much better than AT&T did in muting popular opposition to their recent FCC case. Though I would argue that Verizon did have the advantage of going after AT&T, even if AT&T did apparently get caught flat footed.

Contrary to the opposition’s claims, Some now say that the Marketplace Fairness Act would help small business by simplifying the sales tax situation. I’m not sure I’d go that far, though I do believe the MFA taxameggeddon wouldn’t be as bad as the critics claim.

COMMENTS

  • ajshea

    Your headline is wildly incorrect. I don’t see any way you can read this as suggesting that Google has defied the judge.

    You say that “it?s true that both Oracle and Google were paying people online to write for their side”, but offer no evidence to support it. The article you linked to does not go that far, but quotes the judge as saying that (in his view) Google has not complied with the order.

    We all know that Oracle has been paying Florian Mueller of FOSS Patents blog — he said so himself and now Oracle has documented it in their reply brief to the judge. (Should Google list Florian Mueller because he uses Google’s Blogger platform for free?)

    Google’s brief says they have not paid anyone who has been commenting on the case. Oracle insinuates in their brief that Google has. The judge has in my view responded to Google’s request for clarification on the original order:

    “Rather than flooding the Court with long lists of such individuals or organizations who might have written something about the case, Google outlines below several general categories of individuals and organizations and requests the Court’s further guidance as to whether it would be useful for Google to provide more details or attempt to compile a more comprehensive list. ”

    I think you mis-interpret the phrase “Google has failed to comply.” That is simply justifying the authority for asking Google to supplement their information, not that the Court believes Google is lying. (“In the Court?s view, Google has failed to comply with the August 7 order.”) The title of the court order is “Order to Supplement”.

    We’ll see by next week whose interpretation is correct. If Google does admit that they have been paying someone who has been commenting on this case then your skepticism is correct.

    If we find, as I believe, that Google has been completely honest and there is no smoke, then your insinuation that they have been paying commenters and lied to the court is incorrect.

    In my view, Oracle is hoping to divert attention from the fact that they have been paying a widely quoted commenter who is unashamedly anti-Google.

    Oracle launched a stupid lawsuit hoping to damage Google’s Android operating system or at least generate a lot of money and rent from it, lost big time, and is now facing paying Google’s costs. They are trying to salvage anything they can from this debacle.

    Might I suggest reading Groklaw.net for a more neutral view of this and the Apple-Samsung court cases? I don’t find much balance in the rest of the press.

  • slp0

    Having read the text of the Marketplace Fairness Act (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1832is/pdf/BILLS-112s1832is.pdf), I do not think it should become law. It looks like it could create more problems than it will solve. Who will enforce it? IRS? FBI? What are the criminal penalties for not collecting the tax? Who will write those regulations? Even with the “simplifications” sellers will still have to track not only which states are a part of the “Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Agreement” but also those that implement the “minimum simplification requirements.” Who will certify which states are in compliance? The bill mentions tax rates, but does not seem to address which items and/or services are covered. Every state has its own arcane rules for what is taxed and what is not (groceries have notably convoluted rules), and when (some states have sales tax “holidays” or exemptions during times of emergency; the bill requires a 30-day notice of change to occur on a calendar quarter, which would eliminate the ability to react to emergencies). It requires that the states provide “adequate software and services” but does not require member states to follow the same standard formats and protocols. In the same vein, each state is to provide “certification procedures” for the software but not necessarily the same procedures for each state, nor does it prevent the states from charging for said certification. What I see happening is smaller players will be compelled to use one of the larger providers (like Amazon, eBay, or Google) rather than doing it themselves; either way it will cost them to comply (either through the added complexity in their own systems or paying a surcharge to a provider). So the customer will see the price increase by more than just the tax. Now, there is a “small seller exception” in the bill based upon an arbitrary figure of $500,000, which looks a bit like an afterthought and will have to be revisited over time lest sellers eventually no longer be considered “small” even without growth. Anytime I see such exceptions it tells me it cannot be a good piece of legislation: if it is not good for everyone, it is good for no one.

    The only way I would support something like this would be if every state that chose to be a part of it agreed to the same tax rate on the same products and/or services (which would likely never happen), if there were a common software interface, if payments were paid to a single source (ideally one’s home state, who will take care of paying the other states), and if enforcement is only at the state level.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • ajshea

    I’m not trying to be snotty, I apologize that it came across that way. I’m trying to argue that you have mis-represented the state of affairs.

    Calling someone’s argument snotty (whether it is or not) does not help defend your your argument in any way — its an ad homineum attack on my person rather than disputing any facts I argue. I consider it disrespectful.

  • utahtim

    Ajshea, your remarks were spot on. If you hadn’t said them, I would have, though probably not as eloquently. How asking a judge for clarification can be characterized as “defiance” is beyond me. It would be more accurately characterized as trying to comply fully. Let’s see how this thing plays out.

  • dodgeone

    that you were being snotty or were you wrong IMHO, as for suggesting Groklaw, I’ve suggest Groklaw here before but don’t think it did any good, some people are not willing to get near web sites like Groklaw because they support open source/free software that some think is UN-American, goes against Capitalism, its Socialism/Communistic type thinking.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I guess I should be flattered that a bunch of people are obsessed with insisting I’m wrong. Over and over again. Following me around to say it.

  • PowerToThePeople

    and you can be the first to achieve the dozen morons award.

    In order to receive this award, you must gather 12 idiots who constantly and consistently remind you that everything you type is wrong. They must make uninformed remarks and use said remarks as proof you are wrong. They must have arguments that are easily shredded. If you can achieve this, you will have the prestige of being the first dozen morons wrangler.

    Go get ‘em, you are so close to that award.

  • dodgeone

    do you really believe people are obsessed with you & follow you around, keep dreaming, your that important.

  • ajshea

    Now that Google has replied to the judge [1] with more evidence that there is no “there” there, will you correct this misinformation? Google did NOT defy the judge’s order. Oracle is hoping to divert
    attention from the fact that they DID pay Florian Mueller (as a
    consultant), and he commented extensively on the case (and was quoted
    extensively in the press). There is no equivalent to FM on Google’s
    side.

    Google has not paid anyone to write or comment on the case. Their “Supplemental Disclosure” lists a large number of names they did NOT pay to blog or comment on the case.

    “The judge ordered Google to list “all commenters known by Google to
    have received payments as consultants, contractors, vendors, or
    employees”; and (b) employee-commenters at organizations who receive
    money from Google.” So it does that, listing whoever it could find who
    commented on the case who ever had any association with Google, even
    before the case or after they no longer were associated in any way with
    Google:
    Google has conducted a reasonable and diligent
    search, and has identified specific individuals and organizations in
    this supplemental disclosure who have commented on the issues in this
    case. Google did not pay for comments from any of the commenters listed
    in this disclosure. Nor did Google cite or rely on any of these
    commenters in its briefing in this case.”"
    [1] http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraclevGoogle-1240.pdf (as text: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120824194604954)