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Thou Shall Not Steal, Thou Shall Not Covet

You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Exodus 20.17 – (HT:Oremus.org)

Gallup may have identified yet another fault line that divides the American People into two ideological camps. They recently polled as to whether the rich should be heavily taxed to provide more social benefits for the poor.

Republicans and Democrats have sharply different reactions to the government’s taking such an active role in equalizing economic outcomes. Seven in 10 Democrats believe the government should levy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth, while an equal proportion of Republicans believe it should not. The slight majority of independents oppose this policy.

(HT: Gallup.com)

Although no one would ever call me rich unless they meant it as a sardonic pejorative, my chosen title of this post accurately describes where I come down on this issue. Count me in with the 70% of Republicans and the 49% for reasons both positive and normative.

My positive reasoning is this. The US economy has to stop looking like it does according to what is hyped as “The Scariest Jobs Chart Ever.” The money, resources, and other assets have to be put in the hands of people who are competent. We need people who know their jobs, if we want to create more jobs. Whether you buy into Keynesian Theory for correcting a recession or not, those competent people are not currently running the US Government.

Spreading the wealth, pace Candidate Obama, often puts this money into incapable hands and leads only to lower-order, non-productive consumption. This fails to stimulate the economy beyond a brief burst. People unprepared to handle money properly, often times merely lose it. They then have the same problems they had in the first place. Take the sad example of lottery winner Jack Whittaker.

Take the case of Jack Whittaker, the lone winner of $314 million. He picked the cash option and took home $114 million after taxes…. Today Whittaker is broke and his claim to fame is the run-ins with the law while having millions of dollars. How someone can go from having over $100 million to being broke is something most of us will never understand but it happens all too often.

-(HT: Alabama Lottery.net)

If giving people large sums of money insulated them from consequence, Jack Whittaker would probably tootle around town in a brand new Ferrari. Certainly, a few of the retailers, strip clubs and divorce attorneys patronized by Mr. Whittaker got a nice economic sugar high. However, no meaningful, lasting improvement resulted from placing $114 million dollars of hot cash in inexperienced hands. A very similar case can be made about many of the recipients of President Barack Obama’s stimulus funds.

The Government Accountability Office, in a report being released Tuesday, said at least 3,700 government contractors and nonprofit organizations that received more than $24 billion from the stimulus effort owed $757 million in back taxes as of Sept. 30, 2009, the end of the budget year.

(HT: Yahoo News)

The examples of the broke lottery winners and the stimulus crooks are excellent counter-examples to the old Keynesian Theoretical argument that you can resuscitate a moribund economy by paying people to bury a collection of objects and then paying more people to dig them back up again. Meaningless government handouts, designed merely to goose the velocity of money, do nothing more than urinate a large collection of funds down the drain.

Then we get to the more moral arguments. How do we justify having the government steal the property of another person on our behalf? And make no mistake about it. When we order the government to go “make the rich pay their fair share,” this is precisely the moral behavior we truly engage in. My position on this is simple. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not steal.

Let me make this perfectly plain, perfectly simple and perfectly offensive. If you believe the government should tax the rich to make them “pay their fair share,” you are greedy and you are a thief. It is just that simple. Just saying “Barack Obama taxed the rich, not me!” does not absolve that evil. It is a dishonest answer if you voted for the man or morally approve of his “spread the wealth” positions on taxation or regulation.

Any person who voted for Barack Obama for the express purpose of having him utilize the US tax and regulatory apparatus to take money away from the rich and give it to them personally, is the moral equivalent of a bank robber. Neither I, nor any other person alive, is entitled to two red cents out of another person’s stash just because we don’t have as much.

Class envy and class warfare lead not only to bad economic investment, but also a society of blood-sucking amoral cannibals. The current desire to “tax the rich” is born of both petty hatred and cynical hucksterism. For America to fix many of our problems, we need to go back to our historical moral roots. Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not covet.

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COMMENTS

  • bcochran1981

    Right on. But the numbers from this poll are truly scary. Roughly half of those polled are in favor of “redistribution.” Theft. In most instances, at least in my anecdotal experience, people truly believe that in order for someone to be rich, they victimized someone else. They don’t get that wealth isn’t a zero sum game.

    My dad told me something years ago that’s simple and brilliant….We should get down on our knees everyday and pray to God that there’s another millionaire created each day. It is “the rich” that start businesses, expand businesses, build things, invent things or put them into production. It is the rich that provide jobs for everyone else. A poor person has never created a job for anyone outside of government.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

      Name a bunch of billionaires, regardless of political affiliation, and I’ll tell you some reasons that I think they are personally suckwads. George Soros and Donald Trump spring immediately to mind. OTOH, if I beat up a total thug or an obnoxious jerk and steal their wallet, I’m still a bad person. Whatever Trump and Soros may have done to get their loot is insufficient to justify some sort of legalized theft.

      • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

        I have had to make this very same argument at least a dozen times this week to folks who think that the rich somehow are not deserving of the money that they have, and that they should “spread it around.” What these folks don’t realize is that the rich are already spreading the money around in employing workers to gain more wealth.

        In addition to the “thou shalt not covet” commandment, also remember that envy is one of the seven deadly sins, and envy is the largest single component of covet.

  • earlgrey

    taxing the rich or a single class of people in order to fund social programs for another class of people is the moral equivalent of a bank robber rather they benefit from it or not.

    People who vote that way are effectively choosing for the earner of that wealth how it will be spent. Even if the voter themselves is not benefiting their motive is to take from someone else to fulfill their own dream or idea.

    They are just as morally guilty of theft as those that vote for it AND benefit financially from it.

    • sarg01

      Government has legitimate purposes that justify taxation.

      Highways are for the benefit of drivers.

      Schools are for the benefit of a certain age group. Public universities a different one.

      Hospitals benefit those not rich enough to hire personal doctors.

      Meat inspections benefit those who don’t choose to be vegetarians.

      The courts benefit the law-abiding at the expense of those who do not (well, in theory anyhow).

      That said, making life “fair” isn’t one of those legitimate purposes, as anyone past the 1st grade knows that “fair” is impossible.

      As a movement, and for that matter as a country, we need to come to some sort of consensus about just what government SHOULD be doing.

      Then cut the heck out of everything else, but taking care to deliver on promises as much as possible and to cushion a blow to the economy.

      I’m ideologically opposed to Social Security, but that doesn’t change the fact that the government has been Madoff’ing people for years – it’s not inappropriate for them to want their money back.

      • earlgrey

        about people like Warren Buffet and other rich elites that argue for higher ttaxes and go around saying they should be paying higher taxes. They really wantt all rich people to pay higher taxes not just them.

  • http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

    …are exactly why the left and right can never reconcile our differences and which is why I’m calling for a divorce. They need us, for our taxes, but we don’t need them. I support secession so we on the right can get on with living instead of having to engage in a life long battle for our Constitutional and God given liberties and rights.

  • Vaughn Harold

    to collect taxes as it deems so. It is not steeling when a majority of elected officials pass laws that raise taxes to pay for the business of the government.

    The real issue is the lack of accountability on how the money is spent, or in other words wasted.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

      then legality and morality are two different things. I can legally do many things that are morally disgusting. I also don’t believe this tax the rich crap has anything to do with business of government. It’s class envy and payback.

      • Vaughn Harold

        the population is not in a position to pay taxes.

        I’m not for taxing the rich to make them pay, but I’m also not naive enough to realize that those that have will always do the right thing with what they have been given the responsibility over.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

          They are mostly in a very valid position to pay at least some taxes. (At least the 90.9% of the current US workforce that has a job).

          • Vaughn Harold

            their fair share in taxes when they look at their paycheck or buy anything.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

            Or a national sales tax so that everyone essentially chooses how much tax they pay on anything they consume above subsistence level. I’m terribly concerned about what people think. I think I want a pony and about two billion Red Chinese frankly don’t give a rat’s rectum. The fact that payroll taxation is regressive doesn’t justify further dishonesty in the tax code.

          • Vaughn Harold

            Those that have not, have more important things to do, like just barely get by day to day. So the crazy cycle continues until the day when the wheel falls completely apart.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

            than allowing the influence and control our government wields over our daily life expand until we are the very USSR that we once defeated in the Cold War. At least when the wheels come off, we will all finally have to admit that some mechanical issues truly exist.

        • YnotNOW

          thinks that others should pay for the services they receive. That is an immoral position to take (envy and covetousness). It is also unsustainable because the 1/2 will always be open to higher spending because someone else is paying for it.

          Not that those who have more should not be taxed more, but that should not be skewed to appeal toward those who want to get something for nothing.

        • Vegas_Rick
      • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

        I just read Bastiat’s The Law for the first time a couple of months ago. The airtight moral reasoning of it blew me away. This diary post illuminates one of the main principles: Theft is theft, no matter who does it, and no matter for what “good cause.” Bastiat also explained what you explain so well here: Government-approved and government-executed robbery benefits no one in the long run, for it corrupts the whole society, demoralizes people, destroys the rule of law, saps productivity, and feeds destruction, including self-destruction.

    • streiff

      the story isn’t about government taxation, the story is about a poll of citizens,.

      • Vaughn Harold

        a poll on the mindset of taxation.

    • bcochran1981

      that in no way makes it right. Slavery was legal, beating your wife is still legal in some places of the world, prostitution is legal in certain areas, child labor was legal. But none of those things are right/moral.

      The difference between legality and morality is a founding block of this country. Just because the king says it, doesn’t make it so.

      • Vaughn Harold

        the way it is taxing or wants to tax. Just stated that it’s not steeling when a majority of elected officials pass taxation laws.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

          who knowingly elect these people understanding very clearly where their predilictions on this issue lie. When a politician gets up there and blithers about “You gotta spread the wealth”, that, right there, is the warning bell of the approaching looter.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack
        • YnotNOW

          when taxes are used to pander to the worst instincts of the envious.

        • bcochran1981

          “An unjust law is no law at all.” I think a perfectly reasonable corollary to that idea is that a law applied unjustly is no law at all. If you take that approach to govt taxation, then you’re quickly left with one party (the govt) taking something (money) from another party (me) without permission. That’s STEALING.

          • Vaughn Harold

            rendered is also steeling (ie national defense).

            Not disagreeing with your point, but we all receive certain benefits from the government to which we are morally obligated to pay for within our means.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

            are essentially all moral criminals under that interpretation. As are the lower and middle classes of any nation that has a progressive, rather than a flat system of taxation.

          • Vaughn Harold

            a gift from those that have, according to the current tax policy, to keep them mildly happy so as not to revolt. : )

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

            Nice business you spent 35 years developing there. It would be tragic if anything happened to it….

          • Next93

            By the way, most of them are already revolting.

          • Vaughn Harold
          • bcochran1981

            I recognize that with my rights as an American citizen comes certain responsibilities. One of those being to pay taxes. But when I see a large segment of the population not paying taxes and then turn around and benefit directly from my contributions, THEN go on to claim that I’m not paying enough because I earn more money than they do….I cry foul.

            The top 1% pay 39% of all fed income taxes, top 25% pay 86% and the top 50% of income earners pay 97% of all fed income taxes. That’s not paying for services rendered, that’s stealing.

          • Vaughn Harold

            They are not steeling when the cost of living is such that they can’t pay their fair share. Not so sure you know what it takes to live in that other 50% block of people.

          • bcochran1981

            is that before you go spouting off about someone, you should actually know them. You have no clue who I am or what my income level is. Nor will you. What I will tell you is that currently, I pay around 40% of my after tax salary towards medical insurance premiums and deductibles. So yeah, I know a little about money being tight.

            Finally, Vaughn, learn to spell. It’s s-t-e-A-l-i-n-g.

          • Vaughn Harold

            I could argue that those that have could give a rats xxx about your 40% problem or that 50% block that everyone is upset with steAling money. Otherwise we would all be willing to pay $10 for a burger and a gallon of gas so that these people could pay their fair share of taxes.

          • bcochran1981

            a Big Mac and $7.50/gal for gas, suddenly taxes become fair? You’re going to have to explain that one….

          • Vaughn Harold
          • bcochran1981

            how increasing the cost of fast food and gas by 250% is going to result in the 50% paying their share. Those rising costs hurt the bottom 50% far more than the top.

          • doncorleone

            For the bolsheviks to “distribute” to the poor. Lenin and trotsky kept stalin the bankrobber around ’cause he was their “money” man.

          • BA Cyclone

            Taking money away from one person and giving it to another does not foster prosperity, it fosters dependence.

            I want NONE people to live at the expense of other people.

            What the government doles out is NOT charity, nor it is charitable, by its pure definition. It is high time we stopped treating governmental organizations like they were charities, because they are not.

            Instead, I want everyone to keep the as much of the sweat of their own brow as possible, and thus create the most prosperity for their neighbors as humanly possible.

            If government instead takes more and more of a share of people’s output, prosperity declines and “the need” for more people to live at the expense of others increases.

            Some people in government do not have a problem with the latter scenario.

            Instead we must educate as many people as possible to show them how civil society truly works. Voting benefits for yourself is NOT in your best interest.

          • BA Cyclone

            Taking money away from one person and giving it to another does not foster prosperity, it fosters dependence.

            I want NONE people to live at the expense of other people.

            What the government doles out is NOT charity, nor it is charitable, by its pure definition. It is high time we stopped treating governmental organizations like they were charities, because they are not.

            Instead, I want everyone to keep the as much of the sweat of their own brow as possible, and thus create the most prosperity for their neighbors as humanly possible.

            If government instead takes more and more of a share of people’s output, prosperity declines and “the need” for more people to live at the expense of others increases.

            Some people in government do not have a problem with the latter scenario.

            Instead we must educate as many people as possible to show them how civil society truly works. Voting benefits for yourself is NOT in your best interest.

          • aesthete

            I live in one of the worst neighborhoods in Tucson, and in one adjacent to the very poorest. It is very clear from a glance that “the poor” (never mind that lower 50%) could live perfectly fine if they had to pay their keep in taxes. Perhaps they won’t be able to afford iPhones and some other acoutrements to which they’ve become accustomed, but they certainly won’t be starving in the streets.

          • rogershru2

            iPhones (or any cell phone), xbox, Internet, fast food/ restaurants, sodas, movies, etc

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            The deadbeats, the welfare queens, the pimps, the illegals, the druglords, they all have to pay sales taxes if they buy anything.

        • romeg

          doesn’t change the fact that it is still theft.Taking the property of one less favored and giving it to one more favored is theft and is immoral. The tax code is just one way that the Government does this while taking shelter behind the legalities. The politicians do it to buy the votes of the favored constituency so they can hold onto their power.

          Another example is when the State condemns one’s private property so that it can sell it to another for the purpose of re-development that will generate greater tax revenues even though that state may compensate the original owner at what it deems to be “Fair Market Value”. This is a perversion of the 5th Amendment’s clause regarding “…taking of private property for public use…”.

          The examples of government officials using, misusing, and abusing their authority abound. They hide behind the veil of legality and authority to engage in all manner of nefarious activities. It isn’t until someone stands up and refuses to be bound by these unjust laws and acts that actions begin to bring about change.

          Part of the problem in this country is that a near majority pay no income taxes but that, alone, is not sufficient to perpetuate the injustice of excessively taxing the more productive. There is a significant number who are apathetic to this injustice because they are taxed at such a low rate or are simply too lazy to take action to correct the condition. IOW, their ox isn’t getting gored.

          As long as Americans are ambivalent about what happens to their Fellow Americans at the hands of rapacious politicians our liberties will continue to erode.

    • dajeeps

      “For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please; but only to pay the debts or provide for the welfare of the Union. In like manner, they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless.”

      In other words, Congress can lay taxes ’til the cows come home as it pleases, but it cannot do anything with the money that is outside of the meaning of the enumerated powers. And I really can’t seem to find wealth redistribution within that enumeration.

      • Vaughn Harold
        • BA Cyclone

          If there is no Contract between the people and the State, what limits are there upon the State claiming rights and property you thought were yours?

  • YnotNOW

    as I’ve been posting for some time.

    Unless we can convince a majority of the public that trying to take from “the other guy” (i.e. the Rich) to make themselves better off is an IMMORAL covetousness, then the country will be doomed to bankruptcy.

    (note: I say majority, because there will always be some envious individuals who want to take at other’s expense. But we hope to make them a minority)

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

      All the methods our system uses to skim money off the top or move it back it forth in time are being exhausted. More and more frequently we will have to physically tax every dollar we spend. How we go about adjusting to that reality will go a long way in determining whether America remains a country where decent people want to live and work in.

      • YnotNOW

        How we accept or reject the moral proposition of “other people’s money” will determine whether America remains a moral beacon to the World.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack
          • acat
      • romeg

        This message needs to be repeated at every opportunity. We need to put the notion of shame back into living off the dole. Even SS, for which I am now eligible, needs to be revamped and privatized to make it a true investment/retirement program and get the transfer mechanism out of the mix.

  • BA Cyclone

    Considering present debts and deficits, today we are spending the yet-unearned taxes remitted to the government by our children and/or grandchildren.

    There are obvious moral deficiency issues here.

    In parallel, I have a real problem with people pretending to be charitable, but only with other people’s money.

  • http://www.ArchitecturalShots.com mdyou

    “Rredistributing the wealth” doesn’t mean the same thing to the ruling class as it does to their followers.

    When Obama tells Joe the Plumber he’s going to “spread the wealth around”, the minions thinks they’re going to get the cash. Obama means he’s going to take the money and run it through the system, making payoffs to a relatively few constituencies.

    The Dem rubes don’t get much, if anything at all. And WE’RE supposed to be the uneducated, stupid hayseeds?

    • YnotNOW

      to pacify the masses. Not much has changed, has it?

  • Ausonius

    From the Gallup webpage on this poll:

    “Samples are weighted by gender, age, race, Hispanic ethnicity, education, region, adults in the household, and phone status (cell phone only/landline only/both, cell phone mostly, and having an unlisted landline number). Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2010 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older non-institutionalized population living in U.S. telephone households. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting and sample design.”

    “Race” vs. Hispanic Ethnicity? I find that an interesting distinction.

    Assuming that poll is completely accurate, and given that the real unemployment rate is probably between 15% and 20%, confiscating evil rich people’s wealth might be looking good right now, which account for nearly half of Americans thinking this is an “okay” proposition.

    Which is exactly why MAObama has no interest in an economic recovery: class warfare is his bread and butter!

    See:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147881/Americans-Divided-Taxing-Rich-Redistribute-Wealth.aspx

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com Repair_Man_Jack

      And perhaps that means BHO gets more electable as the economy gets worse. Scary thought, that.

      • Ausonius

        By chance I happened to pick up the 1967 movie “In Cold Blood” today, and was somewhat ruefully wondering about the coincidence between this topic and the movie.

        The two killers talk about robbing and killing the “rich” farm family, who, they are sure, have $10,000 minimum in their house. The killers rationalize that the rich family is ultimately a pack of thieves, and deserve to be robbed and killed.

        They philosophize further that “every banker” cheats and steals, and that in fact all “honest” people are in reality thieves and cheaters in some fashion. Therefore, they have nothing to be ashamed of, and have few or no qualms about robbing and even murdering the family.

        We see here a similar rationalization: somehow “the rich” are less than honest, proven by their wealth! Honest accumulation of wealth is ipso facto impossible. The government therefore, “to make things fair,” must confiscate a percentage of the wealth of the rich, which was most likely ill-gotten anyway, to teach them a lesson.

        This is also in line with the propaganda found in the “Law and Order” series, which shows us murderous millionaires and corporations, rather than the unpleasant truth that crime still tends to be a lower-class phenomenon.

        • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

          I’ve never read the book nor seen the movie, since I figured it would be morbid. Consequently, I had no idea that the murderers actually had a “rationale,” at least in their own minds. I had no idea.

          When you think about it, the green-eyed monster goes a long way back. The first murder in recorded history was Cain murdering his very own brother. Why? ENVY. Later, Joseph’s own brothers tried to kill him</em. Why? Again, ENVY.

          And actually, when you get right down to it, the Fall itself was all about envy. The serpent tempted Eve by getting her to resent God… for being God! The serpent got Eve to ENVY God’s superior status. You could make the case that THE original sin was nothing other than envy.

          You will recall that Saul Alinsky, the “father of ‘community organizing’,” dedicated his book to Lucifer, ?…the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom.?

          Evidently, some people — from Alinsky to the “In Cold Blood” murderers — really would rather be kings in hell than to humbly accept the kingdom of heaven.

          • Ausonius

            Yes, that would be the Democrats, and thus have they been for a long time:

            “Social unrest and a deepening sense of unfairness are dangers to our national life which we must minimize by rigorous methods. People know that vast personal incomes come not only through the effort or ability or luck of those who receive them, but also because of the opportunities for advantage which government itself contributes. Therefore, the duty rests upon the government to restrict such incomes by very high taxes.”

            Franklin Roosevelt, June 19. 1935 in a message to Congress.

            People become rich partly “because of the opportunities which government itself contributes.” And so a Democrat government – actually envious and suspicious of the successful American, but rationalizing that it only wants a “fair share” – must restrict such incomes by “very high taxes.”

  • carolina

    a bigger piece.
    Many discussions/analyses are based on a statist approach of fighting over the same size pie. This leads people to think they need to ‘take’ from the folks with a bigger piece. Somehow we need to show folks that everyone is better off when we grow the economy. “Taxing the rich” is really just eating our seed corn.

    Sadly, I have met people who vote for the dems – because they believe they will get ‘more’ from the dems. This is a scary time for our republic.

    • acat
  • carolina

    a bigger piece.
    Many discussions/analyses are based on a statist approach of fighting over the same size pie. This leads people to think they need to ‘take’ from the folks with a bigger piece. Somehow we need to show folks that everyone is better off when we grow the economy. “Taxing the rich” is really just eating our seed corn.

    Sadly, I have met people who vote for the dems – because they believe they will get ‘more’ from the dems. This is a scary time for our republic.

  • mustango

    What is it about liberals that if you give them a list of ten laws, they’ll always decide the last one or two should be ignored?

  • drfredc

    What part of thou shalt not Steal or Covet don’t the average Christian or Jew not get? IMHO, there’s way too many preachers of the gospel that let the importance of these Commandments to the general well being of a family, community, state and nation slide in favor of some other blather that gets folks to slide something in the donation basket…

    Either that, or there’s a whole lot of folks who claim to understand and follow the Ten Commandments who have no clue… Or both…

  • johnt

    Lead the way leftists, it is a complete moral zero to advocate government redistribution. It is personal acts and only personal acts that accrue to the individual. Abandon the mindless crutch of your superior morality based on federal activity, most of it politicized as well as wasteful. Give till it hurts, then give still more,—– of your own !!

  • Praying

    Have absolutely NO idea what the heck you’re talking about by quoting scripture. They are secular, government loving useful idiots who think that man alone can control his outcome – and heal the planet! How long can a country that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles exist when those principles are all but banned? Lord help us!

  • destroycapitalism

    The rich alredy have far more than they deserve and the proleatariat deserves more. The rich have a biblical obligation not to be rich if they want to “enter into the kingdom of God.” Banks owe every body every cent they have I SUPPORT BANK ROBBERS because they deserve every filty dollor they can take from the evil banksters

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