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The Gardasil Proxy

I’m fairly close to becoming a big Rick Perry fan and just picking up my board and catching the wave! However, I have some reservations that stop me from authoring an explicit and direct endorsement. I need to be convinced Governor Perry will have the ability to understand and effectively execute a foreign policy. I want to be convinced he will improve the security on America’s Southern Border. Finally, I’d like to feel warm and fuzzy that Rick Perry has, in fact, made decisions which have strengthened the Texan economy, rather than merely poaching all the good people from disaster areas like California and Michigan. These are my remaining objections that keep me from committing to a Rick Perry vote in the Alabama GOP Primary next year.

I state these objections clearly, discretely and without equivocation or smokescreen. I do so to amplify a bigger point. Most of the objections and attacks I’ve heard leveled at Rick Perry are not logical. They strike me as being red-herrings or smokescreens to disguise a different objection. I’ll put this rudely and bluntly. People are using Gardasil as a proxy to slime Rick Perry so they can camouflage less worthy reasons to oppose the man or just buy time to think up a better reason.

This doesn’t fly. I don’t need to understand the microbiology of herd immunity or the intricacies of health insurance companies to know bull(beep) when I smell a nice, fresh field thereof. There is a very specific reason why I openly went after Mitt Romney/Warmney and The Great Green Newt for their positions on Global Warming but forewent doing the same with Gov. Pawlenty.

Pawlenty publically admitted he should not have been in favor of public policy aimed at remediating Anthropogenic Climate Change. Mitt Romney still doubles down that Global Warming may require significant government involvement to curtail. This all is relevant to the Gardasil discussion because Rick Perry, like Tim Pawlenty looks to have disavowed his previous stance in favor of making Gardasil mandatory, and public admitted he screwed that decision up.

So the continued flap about Gardasil has otherwise rational Conservative Bloggers photo-shopping pictures of Governor Perry so that he looks like Nurse Ratched would if someone tattooed Merck on her forehead.

Another Perry-Hater Flys Over The Cuckoo's Nest

They are literally taking a page out of Salon Magazine which ran the photo-shopped cheap-shot below.

Does Rick Perry Secretly Dig French Pastries?

What these sophomoric detractors accomplish is preventing a more serious and rational examination of how Rick Perry would govern, if he were elected. This is an adult conversation that has to supersede any emotional response we may have to how well he handled his entry into the race, or how much he just screwed up my favored candidate’s chance of winning.

In other words, let’s have some actual RS diaries that explicitly critique or criticize Governor Perry’s job performance or readiness to be President. But let’s base them on something substantial. Let’s not continue hiding behind the Gardasil Proxy and say what we really think about him yeah or nay. Put them up. Let’s vet the man through well-reasoned logic, and not run the risk the Dems did with John Edwards in 2004.

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COMMENTS

  • Tbone

    “I need to be convinced Governor Perry will have the ability to understand and effectively execute a foreign policy. I want to be convinced he will improve the security on America?s Southern Border. Finally, I?d like to feel warm and fuzzy that Rick Perry has, in fact, made decisions which have strengthened the Texan economy, rather than merely poaching all the good people from disaster areas like California and Michigan. ”

    And you have an alternative candidate that has/or will convince you they CAN do these things?

    • Repair_Man_Jack

      I’m waiting to see all three (Bachmann, Perry, Romney) debate. There’s a lot still to be learned before I make up my mind. Right now, I’m only at the stage where I eliminate idiots who hunt for Kenyan Birth Certificates or have no problems w/ the Iranians getting nukes.

  • DerKrieger

    I agree. Some of the criticism of Perry sound as if they’re reading from a Karl Rove script.

  • acat

    Regarding the Falcon Lake incidents.

    (hat tip zotar)

    Mew

  • lifedontwasteit

    Gardasil first is wrong on at least 3 fronts: gov’t medical mandates, parental authority, SPENDING for it…. He didn’t need to do research for any one of those. And why would you do something like that without researching it anyway…

    But that is hardly his only problem…

    TSA – I cannot come to any other conclusion that he either purposefuly helped the bill die or just could care less about the the TSA sexually assaulting passengers.

    He supported Giuliani. His man card may be intact, but his conservative card flew out the window on that one.

    Spending was up more than 2% over Bush’s TX spending increases and then he complains Bush isn’t conservative (was that a hidden tape I suspect).

    Then there’s are border issues, franchise tax issues, etc.. etc…

    He’s not even a consideration for my backup 2nd pick. No thank you!

    • izoneguy

      Must be getting checks from Karl Rove.

      Wow, where were all these folks when Obama was running?
      That is why I am convinced that most of them are
      from the George Soros celler.

    • gekster

      Who do you like for President.

    • streiff

      1. The government has had authority to make mandates in the interests of Public Health since the Washington Administration.

      2. The only parental authority affected by the Gardasil decision was that of parents who didn’t care enough to object.

      3. Texas didn’t have to spend anything.

      TSA was going to halt airline flights out of or into Texas. They can do that. All airports are federally licensed. All air traffic controllers are FAA employees.

      Lots of people supported Giuliani. We had contributors on this site who did.

      • billollib

        I simply don’t understand this hyperventilating about immunization, and I’m a pretty hard-core Conservative.

        It is the position of anti-immunization “conservatives” that *all* mandated immunizations are wrong — that we should bring back epidemic polio and dipheria, etc? That we were wrong to eradicate smallpox? Do anti-immunization “conservatives” not understand the concept of herd immunity?

        Or is it that anti-immunization “conservatives” are fine with using mandated immunization to eradicate smallpox, polio, diptheria, etc., but think that viruses that cause cancer in young women should be exempted and encouraged?

        • streiff

          whenever you talk immigration you get a certain number of people who aren’t necessarily against illegal immigration so long as the illegals are the right color, like Irish or Poles. What they really object to is brown people, legal or illegal.

          The Gardasil thing is being used by people who could give a rat’s patootie about Perry or the election. What they are trying to do is make an attack on immunizations. They tried it under the guise of autism and have beclowned themselves. Now they are trying the “parental rights” tack.

          • lineholder

            Granted, I’ve missed a few things in the past couple of days, but seriously, we have people playing this angle for reasons of racial bias of immigrants?

          • streiff

            issues.

            I didn’t mean to imply, and I don’t think I did, that immigration and Gardasil are linked. What I’m saying is that on a number of issues you deal with people using the bigger debate as a smokescreen.

            So far over half of the “parental rights” commenters on this subject over the past two days have been obvious anti-vaccine crazies.

          • lineholder

            Thinking back over a few of the “over reach arguments”, it all fits into place.

            Seriously, streiff, I’m as conservative as they come, and I don’t want government involved (and interfering) in my life or anyone else’s any more than is necessary. But even with that, I’m aware that government can serve a positive purpose, especially on things such as preventing epidemics.

          • reggierollins

            when you wrote:

            my view is that there is no public health reason for this vaccine to be mandated. Where the standard battery of childhood immunizations are against diseases which are easily spread, cervical cancer is not a childhood disease. By making the vaccine mandatory for school attendance, as is being proposed in several states, a parent can no longer give informed consent. This is simply medically unethical and morally wrong.

            http://archive.redstate.com/stories/policy/lets_use_teenage_girls_as_lab_rats_for_a_monopoly#comment-397924

            You were pretty stridently against Perry’s decision in that thread. You were even able to understand the medical and moral distinction between mandating vaccines for easily communicable diseases and vaccines for diseases that are only passed by blood or sex. Amazing how one can object to a std vaccine mandate without being an anti-vaccine nutjob.

            Were you an “idiot,” “nutjob,” “crazy,” “lunatic,” just like you accuse everybody who now states exactly the same opinion you did in 2007? Why don’t you explain how it suddenly became a non-issue for you?

            Or are you a shill who changes your opinion based on expediency and to protect whomever you choose to support?

      • rec0n

        the “franchise tax issues”, they were passed as a method of funding schools as the trade off for lower property taxes. Perry and the txlege were attempting to alleviate financial strain on homeowners.

    • Tbone

      Ya got somebody better, tell me all about it.

  • notpropagandized

    Would’ve been nice if Obama had been combed over like Perry is. Please advise what other candidate has been examined this closely? Is this nervous examination to protect our ego from the left wing and GOPEstablishment warting of Perry. One is tempted to exhort “Don’t Look A Gift Horse In The Mouth”. Goodness, chill out dudes. I’ll be the first to tell you he ain’t perfect, not by a long shot and he’s got a long record with stuff in there. Calm down and just insist the he be thrown into the recipe with all the others and help figure out who it’s gonna be.

    I hear that the people who work for him like him. Are there exceptions? Don’t know, but there’s bound to be plenty of disaffected for one reason or another. I’ve heard employees praise his policy positions and be proud to be with him. With as many years this guy has had to navigate a sea of alligators in Texas politics, it’s a wonder he’s even viewed as viable. He’s not the one who brought him up. Media did that b/c of his tenure and Texas success. There’s something to be said for his getting out of the way of commerce.

    Can you imagine what’s going to happen when/if Ryan or Christie or whoever gets in now? Will they be raked over the coals? “Paul, have you ever spanked or swatted your kids?”. “Chris, how much ice cream have you ever consumed in one sitting”

    Good grief.

    Tell these people to shut their pie-hole until we can get the facts. The Left want Perry destroyed and make people embarrassed to even think they might express perference for Perry, just like millions of people were cowed into believing Palin was Jezebel incarnate.

    • Scope

      the Democrats have backed off Perry. They are sitting back and watching the Republican elites in Washington try to destroy him. That includes such like Boehner and Jim Jordan. There is a list of inside the beltway that need to marginalize him, because they know they will not be able to continue to compromise with him as President.

      • acat

        The gutless D.C. wing of the party and its’ apaprachiks cannot tolerate Perry in the White House.

        He’ll rock the boat, he’ll upset the apple cart, he’ll stop the gravy train.

        I’m fine with that. It’s time to let some bulls into the china shops.

        Mew

      • jimmyg

        I believe that is the first time he has been referred to as a “Republican Elite”. For some reason I do not see a lot of compromise in Jim Jordon.

        • JSobieski

          based on a single example of who they support or oppose,the end result is pure insanity.

          Ann Coulter is a pro-abortion squish Rino for supporting Christie?

          Tom Sowell is a squish for supporting the Boehner plan?

          This is the silly season. Reminds me of third grade.

          3 weeks ago people here wanted Jordan to replace Boehner as speaker. Now he is an elitist?

          • GregInFla

            Not very publicized: Rush noted on air shortly after it passed that Sowell withdrew his support after further analysis of the plan. I am trying to find a link somewhere for this.

          • GregInFla

            Here is one column of Sowell’s from August 9.

    • izoneguy

      He knows how to handle them and that is why that are so crazed.

      Just wait for the Photoshopped porno pics and Rick Perry look alike porno flicks.

      They are going to go into overdrive making stuff up.

    • Repair_Man_Jack

      Our experience with Mein Obama will hopefully be a salutory lesson in this.

  • kowalski

    This is like the sixth day in a row I’ve surfed over to Redstate and found people debating HPV vaccine in connection with Rick Perry.

    ENOUGH.

    • kowalski

      Get the Directors to make a statment on Rick Perry and Gardasil, close the subject and get it off the front page or cancel my username.

      Redstate was first allowing and now it is CAUSING this ridiculous subject that should have been closed in the first two hours of debate to have legs that will keep reaching for another two months.

      Please get it off the front page with an unequivocal Directors Directive or cancel my account. I have had enough of coming here and listening to people agonize over a defensible decision by the governor of a large state. Finish the subject and end it and start talking about something important.

      • lizabtha

        Good bloody grief. This is ridiculous. Enough with the Red State nannyism. Parents can decide for themselves re: this shot. OPT OUT and shut up. Brother. What a lot of hoopla about NOTHING.

      • kowalski

        Not only is he the governor of a large state, he’s the governor of a large state where yes, it’s true a lot of people have gotten jobs in the past few years but also a lot of people live below the poverty line. Texas has had a lot of job growth but it’s also one of the Top Ten states in the country in terms of percentage of population living below the poverty line. Depending on whose estimates you believe it’s somewhere around #5-8 out of 50. And if an epidemiologist came to me in Texas while I was the governor and said: “You can prevent a half million to a million cases of HPV due to sexual contact by getting this vaccine out there aggressively” you’re damn right that I would have done it.

        So let’s end the subject. His decision was controversial but it’s defensible. Let’s start talking about the next decision.

        • notpropagandized

          … if you’re a big state Governor and have a huge border with Mexico, you’re gonna have to deal with budgeting to take care of hordes of illegals that don’t pay for services including education and whose inevitable inclusion into the statistics pull ALL the metrics down toward the impoverished Mexican standard. Texas is getting slapped on education, median income, poverty, low-wage employment, etc… Well, DUH! you dummies. You try to absorb as many legals and illegals coming from inpoverished Mexican and Central American communities and you’ll get skewed down in the ranking among the 57 states that Obama visited during his campaign.

          Anybody ever thought of that?

          • kowalski

            (nt)

          • gekster

            He said he had visited 57 states and had one more to go.

            or was that 59.

          • GregInFla

            Not rich ones, so you have more poor people in large states on the border with a poorer country, like Texas. The economy of Texas is probably bigger than Mexico. I’m sure the Canadians fleeing to Montana have a little more money when they arrive.

        • trutexan

          I?m totally against ?mandated? vaccines. But?there are other factors at hand which I can understand since I?ve lived in South Texas the past 47 years and realize the culture down here. I discussed this very issue with my best buddy who happens to be Hispanic, a mother of 5, and has a masters in Biology and works at UT Health Science Center in San Antonio. She?s a big Democrat and even though she voted for Obama (she?s sorry about that), I still love her. Here was her take: (Warning ? this is what we all say & know in private but won?t say publicly. It?s not PC).

          Texas is predominantly Hispanic. Texas has one of the highest teen birth rates in the country. Texas has one of the highest teen drop-out rates in the country due to teen pregnancies. Those facts can lead one to easily understand 1) Lots of teen Hispanics are getting pregnant and 2) they are under-educated. Research has shown that Hispanics are largely unaware of HPV and its next-of-kin cervical cancer ? and culturally don?t care to know about it either. Many Hispanic teens become sexually active very early in life (ages 11 & 12 are sadly not unheard of) and thousands of those girls are contracting HPV. Since the majority of 6th grade girls in this state are Hispanic, with parents who are unaware of HPV, they wouldn?t blink an eye about taking their daughters to the free clinic to get a free vaccine because the school requires it. Those 6th grade girls without the vaccine then grow up to be 74% of the 4.6 million new cases (nationally) of HPV each year. But the point of the mandated HPV vaccine was what I detest ? The government thinking it knows better than you what is good for you and/or your children. But in this case she pointed out, the government is mostly right and she was disappointed that a small majority of social conservatives got into a snit about this and canned it and now hundreds of thousands of Hispanic teens will become an HPV statistic. And the state certainly can?t make it mandatory only for Hispanic girls can it?

          From a dollar perspective: the State of Texas is going to pay for it either way. Which is cheaper? Paying for the vaccine? Or paying to treat cervical cancer, genital warts, HPV, etc.? As the governor, it makes perfect sense to save the state money while going along with CDC guidelines.

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874420/

          http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/2010/(CM)%20HPV.pdf

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874420/

          http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/2010/(CM)%20HPV.pdf

    • Bill S

      The vaccine thing isn’t even the main point. He’s using the name of it for effect. The only reason you noticed it is that it has a unique name (which, of course, is why he used it).

      Write a diary if you have something else to discuss.

      • kowalski

        And RMJ calls it a “proxy” but as you go a little further into the post, he still wants it to be a big issue. It’s pretty clear to me that it’s still central to RepairManJack.

        This all is relevant to the Gardasil discussion because Rick Perry, like Tim Pawlenty looks to have disavowed his previous stance in favor of making Gardasil mandatory, and public admitted he screwed that decision up.

        So it’s a “flip flop” I guess on RepairManJack’s terms and he uses that as the segue into a “rational discussion” of Rick Perry.

        At least as far as I can see.

        I have already decided that the Gardasil decision is just fine with me and so it’s not a proxy or incentive for me to discuss anything else about Rick Perry. There are a lot of other things we can discuss – and listen:

        If the Conservatives are successful in destroying Rick Perry, I’ll vote for Romney and I’ll raise money for him, and vice versa. You guys really seem to think you’re going to get philosophically meaningful and consistent statements out of politicians and I, on the other hand do not believe that is ever possible.

        • kowalski

          To how important the office they’re aspiring to is, and I don’t see any way around that problem theoretically.

          • kowalski

            Because in my mind it’s an absolutely inescapable consequence of large government that the politicians you elect to the biggest offices are the biggest liars.

          • YnotNOW

            Or at least limited capacity to spend my money on their lies – I like it!
            :)

  • ideasmatter

    If the vacinations were free, contained nothing but water, and were (needless to say), safe, Perry would still be violating individual rights. It is our lives, individuals are an end in themselves, not a means to the ends of others (including a well intentioned Govenor and drug company, Merck.). This shows us that Perry respects individual rights, ‘unless’, teenaged sexually active girls could have their cancer risks lowered by 2 percent, (or whatever that percentage may have been). He was willing to use “force”, willing to initiate “physical force” against teen Texan girls, for “their own good”. The fundamental job of governments, local, and state, and federal, is to use “force” only in response to the initiation of force. This translates to police, courts of law, and national defense. Not gardasil. This is a fundamental flaw with Perry, each candidate has flaws, this one, is serious.

    • notpropagandized

      1) An opt-out was added in, and 2) he listened to the people and relented, and 3) he later admitted the effort was wrong and expressed regret. So the question is, is “this one” really serious. Or do we ignore the facts and let the enemy steamroll the candidate with falsehoods.

      • Repair_Man_Jack

        nt.

    • streiff

      in the real world we’re all looking and you, pointing, and laughing.

    • snowshooze

      I hear he is the constitutional conservative.

    • lizabtha

      If you are putting your children in teh gov’t schools, this is the sort of stuff you’re going to face, on many levels. Mandates, mandates, mandate.You’ve already GIVEN UP many individual rights the moment you send your kids thru those doors. And then you whine and fuss about it. CHOOSE another schooling option.

      • streiff

        so long as his “rights” aren’t interfered with. Not a mention of “responsibilities” in that screed. Not a single mention.

    • kinghenry

      Believe it or not, there is such a thing as “Community Rights” that balance out with Individual Rights.

      Protecting the communities liberty by thwarting Outbreaks from killing everyone.

      Outlawing the private ownership of Nuclear Weapons, because if one is set off it would kill millions.

      the Patriot Act to thwart Terrorist attacks…..

      Individual Rights are important, the foundation of much of our liberty but they are not all Absolute.

  • phenry

    Ok, here they are, but the Gardasil thing does count as a major problem.

    Perry is another Bush, but worse. His intelligence is subpar even to Obama’s. He got worse grades than Bush, and he went to A&M. He’s another phony who will sell us a bill of goods on small government and then sell us out when he gets to be president, like Bush did. Also, all the people that like Sarah Palin but want a man as president instead are settling for Perry out of political correctness instead of defending the obvious choice, just because she is a woman and some evangelicals don’t want a woman to be president.

    • streiff

      and is a three term governor and near front runner for the presidency what in the hell does that say about your intelligence as you are none of those.

      • phenry

        It says I don’t accept platitudes as a substitute for substance. And it says you are a fool, because by your same logic you are just as stupid, and so are 299,999 other Americans.

        • gekster

          and discount him because he has one tooth missing.
          Post at the HuffPo, they will admire your wisdom there.

          • phenry

            What are you so afraid of? Since when did we decide to all coronate Perry? He looks like a lame horse shot full of holes to me. Don’t you think he deserves as much vetting as Obama, at the very least?

          • streiff

            against bull**** charges. That’s why we even banned birthers.

          • phenry

            You defend “your guy” whether he deserves it or not. Case in point: Rick Perry.

          • streiff

            we defended Obama on his birth certificate. We’ve defended Palin when people like you called her stupid. We defended Christine O’Donnell.

            We are not going to have our site used as a venue to spread idiocy covered with a thin veneer of lies.

          • perrysucks

            When did I ever call Palin stupid? You know, you can easily stop the “spread of idiocy covered with a thin veneer of lies” by ceasing to comment here.

          • lineholder

            **

          • perrysucks

            He deserves it.

          • gekster

            You would have seen that Perry has been analy examined thourolly.
            Everything about Perry has been hashed out to the fullest.
            If you see holes in Perry, the DON’T VOTE FOR HIM AND PROPMOTE THE CANDIDATE YOU LIKE.
            And yes, I DID shout that out.
            If you find so many flaws in Perry, the tell us who you do like, and why.
            Or would that be harder than slamming someone.

          • phenry

            “Everything” has not been examined about Perry. He’s been in the race for five days, for crying out loud. There’s plenty more that will come out. I am indeed not voting for him and promoting the candidate I like, which is Sarah Palin. But then again, if you show too much support for Palin you are not welcome around here, so I can’t do that very much either.

          • streiff

            I guess that doesn’t count because you haven’t heard of it.

          • gekster

            It has been overly examined.
            You are bringing up what you think is something new.
            Well homer, it ain’t.

          • perrysucks

            I know a thing or two nobody else does, which will come out in good time, should a buddy of mine release some photographs he has access to. But regardless, there are plenty of things that haven’t gotten a ton of play in the media yet. You may have discussed them at RedState, but when the broader electorate finds out about his ties to ACORN, La Raza, radical Islam, etc., he’ll come off looking worse than Obama.

          • lineholder

            *

          • perrysucks

            It’s all just a game.

            Idiot.

          • http://www4.webng.com/rickbull/lostlucky/ rickbull

            My buddy hasn’t finished doctoring them in Photoshop.

        • streiff

          you don’t belong here. I lived through eight years of unaccomplished mouth-breathers claiming a Harvard MBA fighter pilot was stupid. I’m not going to put up with it again.

          Either you produce Perry’s IQ score and proof of your own, or retract, or I ban you. It is up to you. personally I don’t care as there is nothing in your history that says you have anything to contribute.

          • phenry

            And you guys have the nerve to complain about Ron Paul behavior?

          • streiff

            not because you don’t like Perry but because you don’t have anything to offer.

          • phenry

            you have offered nothing but “go away, you make me uncomfortable”. I, on the other hand, brought up several important reasons why Perry is poison to the GOP.

          • Bill S

            all the people that like Sarah Palin but want a man as president instead are settling for Perry out of political correctness instead of defending the obvious choice, just because she is a woman and some evangelicals don?t want a woman to be president.

            Sorry, but you lost my interest in your contributions after you accused Perry supporters and evangelicals of being misogynists. Streiff’s right. You have nothing of substance to offer.

          • phenry

            because of the censorship around here. But who’s to say that you’re right and I’m wrong?

          • streiff

            we’re a private site, not the government.

            C’mon let us in on those deep thoughts you’re thinking. Show us how dumb Perry is by comparison.

          • reggierollins

            as Michelle Malkin and the 2007 version of Streiff.

            I’m “Reg.”

            Apparently I was banned, without warning or notice, for what I have no idea, other than it came after participating in the first Gardasil post discussion. Since nobody is responding to my emails asking if I was banned or hacked, I made a new account to sign off.

            This place was created in 2004 to provide a forum to advance conservative causes. I remember the discussion on Tacitus leading up to the creation of the place. It was intended to be counterpart to lefty sites like kos, with respectful, open debate among conservatives, but without the close-minded group think that characterized that places like kos and atrios.

            I have been around since then. In that time, I lambasted the RINOs, including my favorite post ever here:

            h ttp://archive.redstate.com/story/2004/12/15/133943/99

            I defended Arlen Specter and John McCain when the time came because no matter how bad the Republican is, conservatives must go to the polls and vote for Republicans.

            h ttp://archive.redstate.com/story/2004/7/13/13558/8121#comment-21036

            Now, when it’s time to hold everybody’s feet to the fire to get the most conservative candidate we can, (that is electable), too many simply choose a guy to defend, trusting without verifying.

            If my account is reinstated, I’ll be back, but I’m guessing it won’t be due to the change in atmosphere around here. If you don’t state a candidate or toe the line for the primary flavor of the month, your motives are repeatedly questioned, and your posts are hijacked by moderators and rewritten as “Troll king of Trollsville” (hilarious).

            If I’m not back, that’s fine, as I have no desire to participate in a shill website that works with the Big Politics machine to promote personalities and play cheerleader for the chosen talking points of the day. Or that bans long-standing members who take positions that are too conservative. I’ll keep working in the tea party and grass roots on the issues that matter.

          • acat

            (nothing else to say, really…)

          • rightwingmom52

          • acat

            That’d capture it perfectly, but I don’t think Seinfeld ever went there.

            Mew

          • snowshooze

            This has got to be the toughest old horse ever. It has been kicked from heck to breakfast… please approve it as glue…OMG.. over 106 comments on the poor thing today…it’s killin’ us all…
            and they are pretty much alla same… glue…glue…

          • acat

            We’re going to see this, on and off, until it is no longer potentially politically useful to the Left. Get used to it.

            Mew

          • perrysucks

            Completely agree Reggie. This site was supposedly a place for Tea Partiers, etc., but apparently it was just putting them on and has now gone whole hog big government Republican. It is a shame and a disgrace. It is now just a tool for corporate shills like Perry to extort more money from the American taxpayer.

          • lineholder

            in your resentment of either Rick Perry as a candidate or towards RS as a website? You’re just making yourself out to be vengeful and petty, you know.

          • perrysucks

            I wasn’t before I got banned. I don’t really care how I come across because as soon a steiff logs on I’ll be banned again anyway. So screw that.

          • izoneguy

            Adios Mo Fo

          • Doc Holliday

            from joining under another name, they are basically full of it. I would not mind seeing the tide come in one time, and see who is using their first screen name, and who is not. I think there might be some surprises.

            ps, I am sure it is “possible” to check isp’s, I am saying my belief is most sites don’t have the time, money, or energy to stop sock puppets.

          • perrysucks

            It does check IP addresses, but if you have a wireless connection the IP is dynamically chosen, so you can just disconnect and reconnect. But beyond that, even if a blog were to check MAC addresses, you could just go to a library or computer lab and use a different computer. There is absolutely NO way to permanently ban someone that wants to re-register, unless you just prevent any registrations except during a certain limited time period (I think Hot Air or somebody does this). But of course, if you ban all people, say, that oppose Perry, it makes it a moot point for anyone who wants to blog about Perry’s problems.

          • perrysucks

            people could get around that by registering 10 different screen names during the registration period, and slowly burn through them during the year.

          • acat

            Keep in mind, all those IPs you’ve used, both this time and as phenry may be logged for future reference. They also trace back to wherever you’re posting from.

            The use of the phrase “computer lab” in your comment above indicates an educational institution of some sort.

            So. Are you a student or faculty?

            Mew

          • perrysucks

            and banned me a minute later. Typical streiff I guess, hypocrite to the bone.

          • lineholder

            you would have realized that streiff was trying to be fair in giving you a fair warning.

          • gekster

            I called Hienze Rule on him, and asked not to reply.
            He is just here to rile up crap.
            But you do what you want, I will not tell a respected poster what to do.
            I’m not replying to him anymore.

          • lineholder

            This really petty kind of stuff has just worn my patience thin at the moment.

          • perrysucks

            like being banned just because a moderator wants to make himself feel better by beating up on someone else with the blam stick?

          • perrysucks

            What did I do that was ban worthy? Are we not allowed to point out the fact that some evangelicals don’t think a woman should be president? Heck, I have people in my own family that think that way. Wasn’t the topic of this diary people’s real objections to Perry? Are we that afraid of public opinion that such topics must be taboo? Pathetic.

          • perrysucks

            I said they don’t want a woman to be president, which is true. I didn’t say they hate women.

          • acat

            Read the whole definition. Here, I’ll make it easy for you. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/misogynist

            See that second part? “One who displays prejudice against or looks down upon women.” ?

            Matches nicely what you said. “… want a man as president instead…”.

            Bill S. got it right.

            Mew

            p.s. like your new handle, it’s at least truth in labeling.

          • perrysucks

            I never made any bones about not liking Perry. I’m a far right, crazy Tea Partier and I’d vote for Romney before Perry. Better wolf in plain sight than a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

          • acat

            We know Boehner folds like a cheap suit when the Dems put on pressure.

            We know McConnell folds even faster than Boehner.

            Why do we want a POTUS who will fold just like ‘em?

            In this case, I’ll take the devil – that’d be Perry – who stood up to the Texas statehouse – a GOP-dominated institution – over the Amazon tax and said “No”.

            I don’t see Romney doing that.

            Mew

          • gekster

            when this is your first post.

          • perrysucks

            I re-registered after being banned. I guess streiff neglected to mention that he banned me. He’s a coward.

          • perrysucks

            No telling how long I’ll be able to comment.

          • streiff

            like you think he’s dumb? As there is no evidence to support that you know what “smart” looks like — you can’t use spellcheck for instance — that was hardly a meaningful critique.

          • phenry

            This is what I’m talking about with the censorship. Perry’s grades are a matter of public record and you know it. Get off your high horse moderator shtick and produce evidence of a bannable offense or quit making threats.

          • streiff

            you win

          • lineholder

            This is one of those classic moments where you watch someone else throw down the gauntlet, “put up or shut up”, when the other person has…well, the blam stick.

          • perrysucks

            I re-registered to say bye, and to respond to Reggie who’s comments seem to have been deleted. Let me say this. You are a small little man. You think that because Erick gives you the blam stick you’re some sort of arbiter of all intelligence. You’ve been caught being a complete hypocrite on the vaccine issue. You have no substance whatsoever. You’re just a shill, a flackey, a loser.

            Things aren’t the same as they used to be around here. This site is a tyrannical dictatorship complete with speech police to make sure nobody gets out of line with the official line (which is currently supporting Perry in the face of all facts). People are sick of being treated like cow dung, and so this site is losing influence. I have half a mind to register w ww.redstatemustdie.com. You don’t know how easy it would be to take this site down if I put in the time or effort, but I really don’t care. It has beclowned itself, and I’m done commenting here. From now on, it’s all out war. I hope you get your jollies from that little blam stick you love so much.

          • lineholder

            This clarifies matters a great deal regarding the validity of your comments.

            You can be offended by the manner in which RS mods respond to situations all you want to, but they do have a responsibility to the promoters of this site first and foremost, not to you or I or anyone else.

          • perrysucks

            Which is why I have a problem with the promoters of this site allowing their moderators to be such totalitarian jerks.

          • lineholder

            It’s usually that people don’t know when to stand down from a discussion, they infuse it with a rhetoric that is divisive at best, and they end up trying the patience of moderators far more than is necessary.

          • perrysucks

            When do we have to “stand down” from a discussion? When the mods hold a different opinion? In that case, might as well ban everyone but the moderators and just let them have a nice private chat.

          • acat

            That is, when one or both members of the conversation are not persauded by the others’ position.

            Until or unless there is additional evidence, it is appropriate to end the debate.

            You, on the other hand, have gone out of your way to continue a conversation – both under your first account and, now, under a new one – in which your arguments are not persuasive, and with no additional evidence.

            Mew

          • BigRedConservative

            Your profile name quite flagrantly violates that. But it doesn’t matter, I suppose, since you’re about to leave. As you begin your laughable little one-man war, just remember the inevitable result of fighting a assault tank with a water pistol.

          • perrysucks

            that backwoods colonial Americans beat the British Empire in the Revolutionary War. I’ve got more than a water pistol.

          • perrysucks

            is quite a stretch to call “sucks” profanity. Mods have used far worse, and let far worse pass.

          • perrysucks

            Here are my terms for surrender:

            1) You write a full diary apology. Doesn’t have to be front paged.

            2) You unban phenry.

            3) You unban anyone else who has been banned for pointing out Perry’s problems.

            4) (Optional) You unban anyone who has been banned for supporting a particular Republican candidate. Though I am not a Paul supporter, this includes “Paulbots”.

            5) (Optional) You renounce your support of Perry.

            4) and 5) are not necessary, but they are morally right. If you agree to 1) – 3), I will consider a peace agreement reached. In return,

            1) I will not make any negative comments about streiff.

            2) I will cease all efforts to take down RedState.

            3) I will not register w ww.redstatemustdie.com

            4) (Optional) I will contribute comments and diaries supportive of RedState, on this and other blogs.

            4) would be the best case scenario, but that depends on whether moderators let up on their tyrannical rule in general.

          • Jeff Weimer

            Because they were *leaked* last week.

            Since you are attempting to compare his and Obama’s intelligence, how do we know that one is smarter? Apparently Obama’s grades aren’t newsworthy enough to be leaked, or good enough to be *released*.

            But apparently that won’t stop you from making a currently impossible comparison.

          • streiff

            maybe because I’m a southerner and and infantryman I think it is really overrated.

            Assuming we know what “intelligence” is and can measure it, the real test is what you do with what you have.

            Grades are not a proxy for smart. If you’ve been to college you know tthat.

          • acat

            “Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. ”

            –Calvin Coolidge

          • perrysucks

            But he certainly doesn’t know how to run a country. All he knows how to do is dole out favors to people who will repay him. That’s not leadership.

    • phenry

      a woman or minority is exactly what the GOP needs right now. We need to get away from the conventional average white male good ol’ boy/cowboy image, and Perry is the worst choice possible.

      • Bill S

        .

        • phenry

          You should ban yourself.

          • Bill S

            dumb***, I’ve actually written front page diaries supporting Sarah Palin. Your productivity is somewhat less, uh, substantive. Based on the fact that you have made a sweeping generalization that is utter cowdung, I would stop while you’re behind, unless you just want us to toss you. But if you get your jollies by being an idiot, then go ahead and continue.

          • perrysucks

            no text

      • streiff

        nt

        • perrysucks

          nt

    • Scope

      That you didn’t even bother to go to enough school to get bad grades, yet you post about Obama being superior to Perry. We don’t even know what kind of grades Obama got, because he sealed all of those records. Do you have any proof, other than your opinion that Perry will sell us out? What has he done to prove that? You can’t just throw out all kind of hatred for Perry without backing up why you think he is such a nincompoop.

      • Darin_H

        Grades are EVERYTHING man, who cares what he’s done and learned since school!

        Oh well, he’s probably gone already anyways, another moRON.

      • perrysucks

        I have two bachelor degrees and a masters; working on a Ph.D. Perry is an idiot. Perry has proved time and again that he will give special favors to his buddies at the expense of taxpayers. He has not fought corruption in government, he IS corruption in government.

    • nepanyrush

      I guess you think all of the following must be really dunces, since they never even got a college education, and all dropped out: Bill Gates, PUal Allen, Steve Jobs, Rush Limbaugh, Geln Beck, Martin Zuckerberg, and numerous others. Dem VP candidate Kerry had four D’s in his freshman year. Heck, I know of a Nobel Laureate in Chemistry that got a D in his college chemistry class.

      Your simpleton view that if a person has subpar grades in college, they are lacking in intelligence belies my own experience with people, and I hold a Ph.D. and teach graduate classes.

      Honesty, where do you get off judging his intelligence?

      • perrysucks

        Perry has neither. You seriously mean to tell me that as someone who teaches college courses Perry’s record is anything other than that of a slacker? He should have dropped out of college and done something else.

        • gekster

          You logged in just to say goodbye, and to inform us that you are going to tear down Red State, and start a lefty blog, shouldn’t you go and get busy?

          • perrysucks

            I’m not going to start a lefty blog; don’t try and put words in my mouth. I would start a right wing blog, but that’s beside the point. I’m going to get as much in as possible before I become a martyr.

    • evilleramsfan

      Did you even look at Perry’s transcript? What classes did he take? His major was veterinary science of all things and he passed. That is really all that matters. Keep in mind that he was a 18-21 year old kid. How many others are there out there just like that? He has the paper hanging on the wall. Obama sealed his transcripts among other things about his records while traveling abroad. McCain finished near the bottom of his graduating class. Kerry, Bush, and Gore all had similar grades. After college Perry went into the Air Force…..do you think he really wanted to pursue that which he was studying? How many kids have just finished college because they wanted that piece of paper? How many who hire college graduates care about whether they got A’s or C’s? I don’t (and I’ve hired a lot of college grads over the years).

      If I remember right, Sarah Palin never revealed her college transcripts either, but she started out for one semester at Hawaii Pacific in Business Administration. From there, she went to North Idaho College for general studies for two semesters. Two semesters at Univ. of Idaho in Broadcast Journalism. One semester at Matanuska-Susitna College, and finally 3 more semesters at Univ. of Idaho to get her degree. No criticism of her, but calling Perry’s college career sub-par in comparison is a bit disingenuous, isn’t it?

      How a person does when their young is hardly a gauge of how they do later in life. Einstein was expelled from school and his teaches thought he was mentally handicapped. Bill Gates dropped out of college. Isaac Newton did poorly in school until later in his life. Robert Sternberg got a C in his introduction to Psychology class and was told by his instructor “there was already a famous Sternberg in psychology and it was obvious there would not be another”. Thomas Edison was told by his teachers he was too stupid to learn anything. Like Edison, Abraham Lincoln made failure a habit until he finally found what worked for him. Dick Cheney has been very successful in business and politics, but he flunked out of Yale…..TWICE. The list goes on and on, so your opinion of what his intellect is now based on his transcript as a 18-21 year old kid means nothing.

      • perrysucks

        It’s based on the fact that he speaks in platitudes, and that he’s swung from a climate change Gore supporter to a “Tea Party” Republican who uses taxpayer money for favors to his buddies in business. He says whatever the people that can get him elected want to hear but he doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together in order to analyze things objectively and make good decision.

    • Repair_Man_Jack

      Does that imply he’ll actually fight against terrorists rather than being peachy-keen with the Iranans developing nuclear weapons? Bonus!

      • perrysucks

        I’m sure he’ll bankrupt our country by getting us into a few more wars. Just what the doctor ordered. We’ve been so successful with the last three. In and out, right?

        • gekster

          Let him spew his venom and don’t reply.
          He seams to have issues.

          • perrysucks

            on the other hand, lives in a mental institution. Well, I have as much proof of that as he does that I have “issues”. Actually my “issue” is that I was wantonly and needlessly banned for speaking the truth about Perry that RedState is trying to cover up. They probably want a check from the “Emerging Blog Fund” once they get Perry elected.

          • gekster

            (sorry David for the misspell)

            What is ?The Hinz Rule??
            This ?rule? originates from a diary by RSer David Hinz, where he encouraged us to not ?feed the trolls.? When someone invokes the Hinz Rule, it says ?OK, folks, that?s enough, let?s not encourage this troll-like person to continue?.

          • perrysucks

            [Spambotting bad. - ML]

          • perrysucks

            [I SAID, spambotting bad. - ML]

  • toothpick

    I think I’m in exactly the same place you are regarding Perry’s candidacy, right now. I absolutely love Michele Bachmann’s publicly stated views and her fights for what is right, but I’m very concerned about her lack of executive experience. Running a big organization is just a different skill set than legislator or small-business person (or community organizer for that matter – too bad the American people didn’t realize that in 2008.). Perry *seems to* share Bachmann’s Tea Party attitudes but he does have the exec experience, big-time.

    It’s worth debating and exploring his earlier decisions and current attitudes so we can make reasonable predictions about what kind of president he would be. Thanks for the post.

    • streiff

      right now I have two candidates, Bachmann and Perry, who I could support as the best choice for America. Unlike holding my nose and voting for McCain.

      I have concerns about Bachmann’s temperament. I have questions about Perry on immigration.

  • californiagold

    As popular as Michele Bachmann is among many grass roots activists, the reality is, she has no executive experience. America tried that with Obama, and it hasn’t turned out well – as the presidency isn’t for those who need on the job training.

    Personally, I think Bachmann has a bright future and would do well for herself and the country if she ran for the governor of Minnesota.

    • westcoastpatriette

      maybe Bachmann would consider being his V.P. on the ticket. Then she would get more executive experience. I really like her, too. And am liking Perry more and more. Just need a little more vetting before I make up my mind.

      Perry needs to do an about-face on the Texas Dream Act for me to get behind him. And convince me he agrees we need to enforce current immigration laws that already make it a federal crime to aid and abet illegals. Then back it up by supporting policies that will lead them to self-deport. Period.

      • gekster

        It’s a pdf of the Texas Dream act, dear.

        http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/DREAM/Texas-DREAM-fact-sheet-11-30-10.pdf

        I hope this helps you. :)

        • gekster

          grandkid pulling on me.
          My turn on the WII.

        • westcoastpatriette

          On my way out the door to run an errand. Will check out your link when I get back. Thanks.

          • westcoastpatriette

            You have the audacity to send me to a pro-illegal immigrant website!

            Just what are you trying to tell me? I don’t buy any of it. I have had my fill and feel no pity for them and don’t buy how it will benefit all of us to let them go to our schools.

            I really was not planning on going on a huge rant as I’m having a really good day. Please tell me you are only kidding.

          • runner12

            (and I don’t blame you), you can go here:

            http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/77R/billtext/doc/HB01403F.doc

            for the original 2001 version and then go here:

            http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/79R/billtext/doc/SB01528F.doc

            for the amendment in 2005.

            These link you directly to the text of both bills, no spin or commentary. This is where I went to find out about the Texas Dream Act.

          • westcoastpatriette

            but I have already read about the Texas Dream Act and I am just not buying it. And I thought gekster understood that. That’s why I am hoping he meant it as a joke. Maybe I am wrong about that.

            Some people may think I am really cold-hearted by taking this stance but I feel no qualms about denying illegals access to privileges reserved for American citizens. Just like I am opposed to welfare programs that force taxpayers to support other peoples’ children–legitimate or not.
            It is morally wrong and reenforces the irresponsible behavior thus perpetuating the problem. The illegals caused the problem by dissing our laws to come here and they can just return their little butts back to their mother land, get in line and apply for citizenship if they want to go to our schools.

            And don’t give me that it’s not the children’s fault their parents brought them here. We all have to deal with the sins of our parents–hopefully in a responsible way.

            End of rant.

          • gekster

            I was trying to get you an original copy. Some time (things) happen.
            Thanks runner, I’ve been bouncing around and can’t seam to find it.
            I hope he provided what you wanted, westcoastpatriette.
            Again, I am sorry for the wrong link.

          • westcoastpatriette

            If you see my original post, I was saying that I need Perry to do an about face on the Dream Act in order to support him. So, I thought it was a given that I am opposed to it.

          • gekster

            I thought it was just a copy of the law as written.

            I didn’t scan it to see what it was.
            Let me take another look and see if I can find the law.
            I’m don’t want the appearence of promoting it, just to inform on it.
            Give me a minute and I will see if I can find a copy.

          • westcoastpatriette

            only trying to be helpful.

            My favorite site that I go to frequently to stay abreast of what’s going on with illegal immigration across the country is FAIR–the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Well respected and very helpful in helping to understand the magnitude of the problem. I have learned a lot from them.

  • luvnthebigsites

    Its a crying shame. Perry admitted hes was wrong… THATS the story. The “Gardasil” phenomenon should have died there.

    Someone please explain to me how keeping this story alive helps our side?…. *sigh*

    Night all.

  • jimmyboy

    I assume you all know that the Tea Party ?Restoring America Rally? being held in Iowa on Sept. 3rd with Sarah Palin as keynote speaker has been moved to another location due to capacity and parking concerns. Moving to another outdoor site south of Des Moines that has capacity for 20,000 or so?
    http://california4palin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Sarah-Stock1.jpg

  • rubb

    He sees a different role for state and local governments than he sees for the feds. If he sticks to the promise of making Washington DC as inconsequential to Americans as possible, he is going to be my guy. I just want hm to start using that approach every time somebody starts trying to trap him with a stupid question. Why not just turn around and answer with a line like,”Why does it matter? That is none of the federal government’s business”

    • MsDollie

      “Why does it matter? That is none of the federal government’s business.”

  • http://changingwind.org Toddy Littman

    I tend to agree with you, as this Gardasil “issue” was brought up almost instantly by numerous pundits, similarly to the way Progressives sit holding something until an announcement and have it out there in the “mainstream” media within the blink of an eye after a conservatives announces something.

    It was ironic to me how many Palin and Paul supporters were jumping at the chance to be the first to gather the lumber for Perry’s coffin. Last I knew, we were about restoring government to following the Constitution, as it was written to direct them, an enumerated power grant, and thereby limited, and not general, government.

    I listened to Perry’s speech and he said something I wish the entire American People would comprehend the absolute truth of:

    “The people are not subjects of their government, the government is subject to the people.”

    Instead, the politic is being embraced, people going all in with pride-filled conviction for a particular candidate with 15 months to go, and making all effort to destroy the competition, even when their message is worth leaving them alone for all Americans to hear.

    My attempts to achieve a complete review of people and not just jump on bandwagons is shown in this blog to question Ron Paul, http://changingwind.org/index/news.php?extend.178.16. I am sure this will rub his enthusiastic supporters the wrong way, to criticize a 30 year politician whose continued the tactics of Henry B. Gonzales (38 years in Congress), to render Federal Reserve speech pure political rhetoric, but it’s the truth of the matter when you look at Paul without pedestalizing him for agreeing with what you believe.

    I know this may not go over well either, but, so far, the one candidate with the least actions in support of Progressivism, and who I am leaning toward, who seems to have embraced the notion of following the Constitution, and learned their lesson, by their acts and deeds knowing there is a true blue American conservative base is Michele Bachmann.

    Sure she’s made some gaffs, so has President “corpseman,”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1DO388jsf8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKIfzoC8D0

    I believe that since the left isn’t railing Obama for being gaff machine in his role as Oracle of TOTUS, while claiming “President Of The Harvard Law Review” on his resume, the same treatment by us, to me, should go for Michele Bachman.

    Bachmann is also an opportunity for conservatives to demoralize the entire left and Democratic Party, by being the first to elect a woman President Of The United States.

    I am out to win this against our enemy, Progressivism, Communism, and it’s initiators:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5572536349196626462

    And we win this not by destroying our allies.

    We need to come to terms with what will most place Obama in a cone of silence, to be shunned as the disastrous embarrassment he’s been to the United States of America and his entire party.

  • MsDollie

    http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/perry-127074-gov-lawmakers.html

    http://biggovernment.com/cdevore/2011/08/17/governor-perry-the-trans-texas-corridor-eminent-domain-do-limited-government-conservatives-need-to-worry-no/

  • californiagold

    When democrats praise a republican on immigration policy, that spells potential trouble.

    • gekster

      Just asking.

      • californiagold

        I like Perry, but if his current position on immigration is anything like his 2006 position, he’ll have some explaining to do in the debates.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRQaLdjtWkA

  • GregInFla

    For all those critical of Perry and vaccinations:

    If a vaccine for HIV/AIDS was developed and made available, would you want it to be handled as Perry handled Gardasil, or more active, or more passive? No need to respond here; just consider it to yourselves. I am also getting tired of seeing the stories on here.

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