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What Do You Do With 300K Discouraged Workers?

What Does This Workforce Do With Themselves?

We have a new jobless report, and it’s the good, the bad and the ugly.

The good involves America’s lower unemployment. 120,000 new jobs were created and the total number unemployed fell to 13.3 million. Let’s hope it continues. If we do the right things and believe the right things; any temporal benefit to certain incumbent politicians will prove short-lived and illusory.

The bad involves several of the internals in the current BLS report. Analyst Kathy Bostjancic describes this report as positive, but not good enough to do what’s necessary.

“These modest job gains are still not enough to propel economic growth to a sustainable 2 percent-plus growth path.”

Other reasons for Eeyore to stay gloomy exist. The average length of unemployment is at a record-high 40.9 weeks, and many workers hold more than one job. Of the 120,000 new jobs, a mere 2,000 were in manufacturing. Service sectors such as hospitality and soft retail added 105,000 of the 120,000 jobs. This leaves the unfortunate possibility that a lot of this was seasonal help. Merry Christmas while it lasts.

To me the ugliness occurs from having 315,000 workers leave the workforce. A part of me says you can’t just quit. Perhaps it’s the whole Jeebus-Man Thing. St. Paul minces no words in 2 Thessalonians (3:10)

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

It leaves we wondering what do these 315,000 people actually do with themselves? I would hate to think this Adam Corolla video explains why people leave the workforce and do absolutely nothing. (And furthermore, it’s profoundly NSFW)

Another possibility involves an awful lot of this economy existing off the books. Anecdotal evidence suggests the possibility that people are leaving a failed system and doing what they have to do. It surfaces in funny ways sometimes. Mitt Romney’s landscaping crew was one amusing instance that reached the cable news networks.

Yet nobody really tracks this well. For one thing, the buyers and sellers of labor are about as forthcoming with employment data as your local drug kingpin. Everything they engage is illegal in some aspect. They’d say they are doing what they have to to get by, but the old saying goes “The Law is an Ass.”

“We really don’t have data,” Martin Kohler, regional economist with the Bureau of Labor Statistics, says in an e-mail. “And I am not sure who would.” Employment services uptown were unable to shed any light on the subject.

(HT: TheUptowner.org)

“The underground workforce is made up of individuals from many walks of life,” Susan Pozo, an economist at Western Michigan University, says via e-mail. Smith says, “They can be tailors, janitors, nannies, dog walkers.”… Pozo estimates that, based on the documented unemployment rate in upper Manhattan, off-the-books workers constitute roughly 13 percent of the labor force. She knows of no estimate of the total worth of the country’s underground economy.

In 1987, Italy actually made a serious effort to measure how much of their economy operated sub rosa. This resulted in a recalculation of GNP (This was pre-GDP) such that Italy was shown as having a larger economy than Great Britain. The New York Times describes this below.

Two years ago, a wave of euphoria swept over Italians after economists recalibrated their statistics, taking into account for the first time the country’s formidable underground economy of tax evaders and illegal workers, and announced that Italy had overtaken Britain to become the fifth-largest economy in the West, and was closing in on No. 4, France.

This leads me to wonder how much of America’s workforce is really made up of discouraged workers. These people could be doing a lot of things on a short-term cash only basis. A lot of them could be criminal enterprises for reasons beyond evasion of taxes and employment verification.

Or a lot of these people could just be doing the only thing they have left. In a nation once described as the land of opportunity, they could be doing the only thing left that gives them a chance to survive. Once these people have dropped out of the workforce, why wouldn’t they pretty much drop out of everything else? We lose these people to our society at some point. And that would prove to be ugly indeed.

COMMENTS

  • Death_of_the_Donkey

    1) It is not likely seasonal help, as these are the adjusted numbers (unadjusted showed a retail gain of over 400,000 jobs).

    2) You can leave the labor force through retirement (picking up as boomers age), for childcare, for education, etc, so not all those dropping out are for nefarious reasons.

    • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

      Actually, the 300,000 represents marginally attached workers — that is, not retired, not military, not institutionalized, but able to work, but having given up searching for a job.

      • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

        it’s actually 487,000 having dropped out.

        • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

          So for clarity, I’ll post this graph, to which I should have referred earlier for correct numbers. The number of unemployed who are not in the labor force, but, who would LIKE A JOB has actually gone up in the last month by 351,000.

          That is, people who aren’t in the military, or retired, but want a job.

          http://whttp://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

          • Death_of_the_Donkey

            That is how many the “not in the labor force, but want a job” went up in the last month. Please remember that retirees also count as leaving the labor force/not in the labor force (and sadly the BLS doesn’t track that (at least where we can see it).

            Please refer to table A-1: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm

          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            So which is right?

          • Death_of_the_Donkey

            being disingenuous to make a point?

            A-16 not only is non-seasonally adjusted data, but it also is comparing November 2010 to November 2011, where as the report to which we are referring is a month to month change not year to year. So in the context of what I have said, you are clearly wrong since you are comparing to year ago data.

          • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

            You’re absolutely right on the numbers, and I’m absolutely wrong. Not sure how the hell I missed Nov 2010, but there it is.

      • Death_of_the_Donkey

        the civilian non institutional population absolutely includes retirees. And it does not represent marginally attached workers, if that was the case, then U-6 would not have dropped by .6% this month. The rate dropped because the household survey showed a creation of 278,000 jobs and 315,000 people left the labor force. The BLS actually publishes all their definitions and methodology if you are actually interested in knowing how the surveys work.

        • snowshooze

          ” Left” the work force… meaning swept off the books?
          Although I do give creedence to the Census Bureau, I still have reservations.
          When they poll, do they ask haw many unemployed in the household are still receiving benefits, or how many are without work.
          Which falls directly to the discouraged portion and the subject of this post.
          I couldn’t get into BLS earlier.

          • JSobieski

            The 278,000 figure for jobs created is a net figure—the number of jobs lost has already been subtracted.

            Subtracting the people leaving the work force doesn’t really make sense. We can just arbitrarily start doing things with numbers, but calling the figure a net -37,000 makes no sense.

            Why not just site the number of employed persons as a percentage of the population, and call it a day.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            of “unemployed”; the misleading nature of that number as to the severity of last month and the past 3 years; and that we don’t have a number that better differentiates between those that have “left the work force” that still want to work but can’t afford the gasoline for meaningless trips to apply.

            The better way to measure employment is to look at the number of jobs that exist now vs last month and last year. Growth is necessary for prosperity.
            more later

          • snowshooze

            It actually worse as he sees it.
            http://www.newsmax.com/US/LimbaughNewUnemploymentNumberisCorrupt/2011/12/02/id/419840

          • Death_of_the_Donkey

            is talking about. Read what he said, he referenced the 120,000 jobs created number from the Establishment Survey with the decline in the labor force in the Household Survey, but did not reference the job created number that also comes from the Household Survey (+278,000 jobs). As Streiff pointed out to YOU in another thread, these numbers are not corrupt or fudged and the guys compiling this data are very good. Don’t become a lib and start saying numbers are fudged because they don’t further your agenda or worldview.

          • renl57

            If you’ve been laid off and you’re close to 60 years old, your chances of being able to start all over again at that age are low. You’re better off just retiring early.

        • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

          I had a lot of data in front of me, and was misreading it. Easy to do with four children running and screaming, I’m afraid. See above.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            It means that less people applied for work. Many actually did “apply” in ways not recorded and many don’t apply because to do so would be a waste of their time. They want to work.

            Moreover, the survey doesn’t count many of the very large number of the self-employed that grew so large in the late 90s and early 2000s.

            We are in dire straits and everyone knows it.

  • snowshooze

    And ” The audacity of no hope… ”
    Great lines!
    Very good, RMJ.
    This I have been yelling for some time, and I am glad to see you turn your hand to it.
    I know several that are living of their own efforts in the underground. Some barely surviving, others doing quite well.
    They deal in cash.
    So if I know of six people doing it, I would think there is a measurable percentage.
    Some of the discouraged are too busy to look for “work”
    And without the pesky details of dealing with the government…
    No bookkeeping, no taxes, no OSHA… gee…

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      of this Great Depression II.

      • Scope

        We all know that the Americans are clever, and can always find away around an oppressive and destructive government. The most basic instincts of people is to find food and shelter for themselves and their loved ones. If it means skirting the government attempts to catch them up in the nanny state government system, with making them dependent on the crumbs, Americans have always found a way to say go scratch. Don’t forget those that also deal in the barter system, while telling Uncle Sam to take a hike. I suspect the employment black market system is flourishing. I personally know some that are living that way. Ha, and me the one that would never break a rule or a law.

  • earlgrey

    we have more politicians speak with such clarity? I just don’t know how he could afford that film crew.

  • quill67

    The employment numbers came from the household survey. The household survey is just that– a survey of households so it would include those employed in the underground economy. Well, at least if they report being employed. If they fear the survey people might report them to IRS then they might not report being employed and that could alter the survey results, otherwise, even those in underground economy will show up in employment numbers.

    • snowshooze

      Just because you are doing some cash work…nonono..
      And if you reported, if receiving UI that would get kicked, and IRS?? Nobody I know is sending any more than they have to.
      You’d have to be nuts to admit any income that you didn’t have to.
      It’s a good thing for the government that they hold a knife to the throat of the employers and make them collect the payroll taxes.. if left to the individuals.. to write a check and send it in every payday… ha.

      • Scope

        Someone who is working “under the table so to speak” is not going to be dumb enough to tell anyone from the government that they are working for cash. They will simply say that they are unemployed but looking for work.

  • renl57

    Gallup does their own polling on unemployment.

    They define “unemployment” as “Wanting to work but unable to work even for an hour”–so if there’s an underground economy, Gallup captures it.

    These are raw numbers, not seasonally adjusted.

    And according to Gallup, there has been no significant decline in the unemployment rate in the last month. Or even in the last 6 months.

    • renl57

      http://www.gallup.com/poll/125639/Gallup-Daily-Workforce.aspx

      • Scope

        to tell the government they may be working for “cash” do you really think that they will tell a pollster they are working for cash? That doesn’t even make sense, unless you are very naive.

        • renl57

          Not whom they’re working for or what type of work it is.

          And it’s confidential anyway.

  • carolina

    Neither one of them was looking for work…… they were both taking the maximum UE for as long as they could (one of them for 99 weeks). I think a big reason for the 300,000+ drop in the “looking for work” are people who’s UE just ended.
    I heard somewhere that 2/3 of these “no longer in the workforce” were folks who started taking SS.
    After all of the ‘seasonal adjustments’ that are done to the raw data, I don’t trust any of the numbers very much.

  • Melody Warbington (rwm52)

    while driving to work on Beck’s program. I know everybody in the lanes next to me had to be wondering what was so funny because I was laughing my butt off. He absolutely nails the millennial generation.

    On a related matter, and I’m not looking for sympathy, but someone very close to me lost his job a couple of weeks ago out of the blue, along with 5 of his counterparts across the country. He went through the usual range of emotions (anger, panic, depression, doubt, etc.) for a couple of days. Then he kicked into high gear and has averaged one meeting with a potential employer almost every day since, sometimes more, not to mention the multiple phone calls and emails. He has something in the can already as back-up starting next year if one of the other opportunities doesn’t pan it. One cold call resulted in the head guy saying they needed to find something for him even if they had to create a position and then fast track him up the ladder. And all this in an industry in which the jobs are pretty limited here in Birmingham because he has marketed himself outside of his expertise. Amazing what can be accomplished with a confident attitude, strong work ethic, resume in hand, and a little preparation (knowing who you’re talking to and asking the right questions).

  • bornagainrealist

    There are simply too many jobs that required zero skills that vanished overnight. These are never coming back. You have to clear these people out of the system.

    • nathanalbright

      Do you know what you’re saying? Do you care?

  • gr29az

    what do you do with the 300k. repeal obamacare!

  • Wayne

    the clinical analysis of the workforce and employment statistics expressed here remind me of the scene in Cameron’s Titanic when old Rose thanks the computer geek for his “forensic analysis”, but that the actual experience of being there was quite different.

    Those of us who have been “legally” self employed throughout our careers have always understood the direct link between performance, success and failure. It keeps us awake at night calculating how to improve performance to maximize efficiency and productivity, thus greater profits.

    We know nothing has improved in the economy and those of us gainfully engaged in the natural process of eking out a living based on basic economic principles believe it will get worse before it gets better.