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Scapegoating Zimmerman

Nobody?s Sins Will Be Carried Off Into The Desert

“Then he shall take the two goats, and set them before The Lord at the door of the tent of meeting; and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for The Lord and the other lot for Azazel. And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for The Lord, and offer it as a sin offering; but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before The Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.” (Leviticus 16:7-10 RSV)

(www.keyway.ca)

George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in the chest and killed him on 26 February. Mr. Zimmerman was not charged and his actions remain under investigation by local and now Federal authorities. This has led to an outpouring of anger and several demonstrations by those who believe the American justice system has a strong racial bias against African Americans. Not all of this protest has remained within the bounds of civility. The New Black Panther Party has put a $10,000 price on George Zimmerman.

The President has done nothing that would lead to calm or pacification. He informed us that if he had a son, the boy could look like Trayvon. His campaign has sought to monetize the tragic shooting by selling Obama Hoodies for campaign money. He reminds us to search our souls over this as we rummage in our pockets for the $40 tab for one of his hoodies. Even the Commander-In-Chief wants his take from the till on Justice For Trayvon™ (and I’m not just being snarky about the trademark).

Sadly and predictably, 75% of America wants George Zimmerman dragged forth and shot this afternoon. Just kidding, folks. They weren’t quite that forthcoming and honest. CNN polled on whether George Zimmerman should be arrested and75% of those asked agreed. Better that than get the Scarlet Letter R (RACIST!) tattooed on your forehead.

Arresting George Zimmerman may or may not be the legally sanctioned and appropriate course of action. If the people investigating find reasonable evidence that the shooting of Trayvon Martin was not a defensive action or that if George Zimmerman had no legitimate reason to feel he was in mortal danger, he needs to be booked for manslaughter at the very least. Let the system operate and do its job.

Scapegoating George Zimmerman to prove we’re all too big for bigotry accomplishes absolutely nothing. It proves absolutely nothing. Let’s say Repair_Man_Jack is so !RACIST! that he will only order White Pizza at the local Italian Restaurant (adding pesto or tomato sauce would make it Pizza of Color which would defile his highly attuned palate.) RMJ could fool you all be demanding that George Zimmerman be waterboarded for Trayvon. “Dunk ‘em for diversity,” RMJ always says!

The immediate tendency to demand “justice” despite an incomplete grasp of the facts can only lead to travesty. Googling “Duke Lacrosse, Mike Nifong” and then reading a few of the links tells you far more than I could by belaboring the point. Try “Sharpton, Brawley” if you still remain unconvinced.

I’ll make one more point out of respect for the dead. I find it irrelevant outside the setting of a trial whether or not Trayvon Martin was more likely to end up in Harvard University or Folsom Prison. His initial beatification was somewhat nauseating in a Crystal Mangum sort of a way. But as someone completely unassociated with George Zimmerman’s legal defense team, I really don’t care why Trayvon Martin wasn’t in school for ten days. People with no personal dog in this fight should allow the dead their peaceful sleep.

In conclusion, nobody will really fix American society by joining The New Black Panthers’ in their jihad against George Zimmerman. If you were racist beforehand, you’re still a bigot whether they arrest Mr. Zimmerman over this sordid affair or not. More to the point, you will not make anyone who believes you are a racist think better of you at all by demanding Zimmerman’s head on a platter. Display equipoise and let the investigators investigate. Scapegoats do not work any sort of biblical magic in the modern world.

COMMENTS

  • DefendUSA

    This is the classic media complex of which Bretibart spoke. A tragedy is a tragedy. The life of one ended and those left behind will be forever scarred. Could the media have not implied all it did and truly waited for the facts- for once, could they have done the right thing?I am not confident that the real truth will be known and if it is, will it ever be believed? The nedia taint is widespread and although there are many facts, not all pertain to the incident and it most certainly is not what people who think this was racially motivated will filter out. I hate the mother-effing media.

    • monster

      he is truly missed. I could imagine him finding a creative way to turn this on the MSM, and make it blow up in their face. Will someone stand up and be the LOUD voice of reason that shouts over the narrative that has been pushed upon us? Who will be able to fill that void? I am not afraid to, but no one knows little old me or cases what I say…

      “But we have a consolation- yet to offer them: their murderers sank in death on the prairies of San Jacinto, under the appalling words, ‘Remember La Bahia.’”

  • aeaeren

    Some people here are a little slow on swinging the bat while the Democrats are throwing fast balls. If you think this is a Sanford or a State of Florida issue then you better wake up. These people are trying their hardest to justify another set of laws limiting Guns. What I seen yesterday in the City Counsel meeting from members of the Congresional Black Caucus they are going to Mr. Holder to see if some Federal Laws allow for overturning Stand your Grounds. This is once again Federal Gov’t meddling in State Affiars and ONCE again trying to subvert the Constituion. They DON’T care what happened and furthermore they can careless about what the evidence says as long as the Media keeps playing the game they will do their best at sinking the knive deeper into us. And if one hasn’t learned by now that Holder doesn’t care about the law well YOU will be the one on the collective farm when you realize just what is going on.

    • Dave_A

      doesn’t apply to this situation.

      Opponents have tried to spin this into a ‘why SYG is bad’ case, the problem is that all appearances seem to indicate that weather the shooting was justified or not – and weather Zimmerman is convicted or not – will not be impacted by SYG.

      BTW: I carry a gun, as a civilian, myself. I’ve never had to use said personal weapon, and I hope I never have to… That said, Zimmerman’s situation is a textbook example of what NOT to do as a civilian, while armed. And yes, being ‘watch captain’ or whatever he called himself doesn’t make it his duty to pursue (even a paid & state-licensed armed security guard is supposed to observe-and-report, the weapon is for personal defense only).

      As an armed civilian, you do NOT pursue anyone, ever… And you do NOT confront anyone unless they are posing a threat of death or great bodily harm. You especially do not EVER let yourself get in a fist-fight – regardless of what the other guy says or does.

      If you have to shoot someone, you want it to be as clear as possible to the police & anyone reading the police report that the person you shot is dead because they left you no choice.

      If you follow the person while armed prior to the shooting… If you get into a non-lethal altercation with them before the shooting… If they aren’t in possession of a lethal weapon… All of these things start to bring your justification into question, and some may even begin to make it look like the person you shot was the one engaging in self-defense.

      And when that happens, (A) your name will be in the news, and (B) you’re probably getting charged with a rather serious felony, as the investigation will likely determine that at-a-minimum you used excessive force, if not that you fired without justification….

      • aeaeren

        we will find out the eventual truth but the thinking as of now is that Zimmerman did walk away and was then jumped from behind, again this isn’t confirmed yet. If he was jumped and was having his head bashed into the side walk well I lean on the justified side here. I can see some tweaking and honestly I as a citizen would want that tweak. I would rather you arrest me and I have my day in court so I can’t be tried again once it is all over. Err then again Florida Courts do not have the most honest proceedings at time with lying State Witness and other nonsense that goes on during trials.

        My statement still holds true regardless of what one might think these politicians do not care what actually happened. They know they won’t be held accountable for their disgusting actions, but if they can somehow push their agenda even futher do not think for one minute they won’t roll that dump truck over their own mother to get what they want. They will put up a statue of mom after they get what they want to commerate her death for the greater glory. Besides she was old anyways and that pace maker was going to cost too much so let’s just end it for her now.

        These Race baiters do not want any equal or fair justice they want THEIR AGENDA period and if they can stir up a mob to get people to kowtow to their demands then they will burn it down to get it. What some people need to learn is to quit givin into them and stand by their convictions.

  • johnt

    in the name of justice and solidarity.
    I had heard Zimmerman had been slugged tby poor Trayon, maybe that’s why he chased him. You think?

    • aeaeren

      That is not true. He wasn’t chasing him for any other reason then being suspicious. If Martin would have said my Father’s girlfriend lives here and I am on my way home then that would have most likely been the end of it.

      • johnt

        You may be right, I’ll reserve final judgement. However there are indications of violence, including a CBS report. For ceratin this is true, if it goes against the larger media line promptness and accuracy go in the can. They just love the “America is racist” thing.
        We’ll see.

    • BuckeyeTexan

      IMO, his silence emboldens and encourages people like the caller to Sean Hannity’s radio show who up’d the ante by $1000 for the capture or killing of George Zimmerman.

      Read the transcript of the call below:

      http://www.redstate.com/buckeyetexan/2012/03/27/hannity-caller-seeks-to-up-the-ante-for-george-zimmermans-capture/

      Not only does he up the ante, he explains that the NBPP will “fairly” try” Zimmerman according to the evidence and then administer their own justice.

      Obama, a constitutional lawyer, says nothing about a national organization who wants to apprehend, try, and punish a defendant outside the boundaries of U.S. law?

    • acat

      Just wonderin’

      Mew

      • Dave_A

        The guy had already made millions on his book deals…

    • Dave_A

      Even under ‘stand your ground’.

      • streiff

        you need to find a new site.

        You either don’t know enough about this story to make a comment or you are simply a casual liar.

        1. There was no “chase”.

        2. Under FL law, if you believe you are in danger of either death of “grave bodily injury” — which case law has defined to include a lost tooth or broken bone — you can used deadly force.

        Martin as, according to police reports, 6’0″, 180lbs. Zimmerman is 5’9″ and had this guy sitting on his chest punching him in the face.

        This will be your only warning.

        • Dave_A

          I’m no ‘Sharptonite’. And I think my posting history speaks to that.

          I am not calling for this guy to be lynched, or invoking race in any of my posts.

          However, BASED ON THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE, I am NOT comfortable with the exact opposite position – that Zimmerman is an innocent victim who engaged in justified self defense.

          My issue with the situation is quite simple:

          To believe this, you have to believe that Mr Zimmerman simply followed the person he shot, possibly exchanged words (you can’t assault someone for what they say, so this doesn’t impact his ability to exercise self defense) was attacked by him in such a manner as to place him in danger of death/great bodily harm, and was thus within his rights to shoot.

          If that is the case, then Zimmerman is innocent, full-stop.

          However, any of the following can impact the situation:

          1) Did Zimmerman display his weapon in a threatening manner, prior to any physical altercation?

          2) In the event that (1) did NOT occur, who started the fight?

          3) In the event that Zimmerman started the fight, did he attempt to break contact before he fired (a different situation from the SYG victim’s-right one)?

          If (1) or (2) is a ‘yes’, then it was the guy who got shot defending himself, not the shooter – unless (2) is a yes, and (3) is a no.

          (4) Was Zimmerman actually in a position where the legally-standard ‘reasonable person’ would fear death/great-bodily-harm, in a fistfight?

          NOW, like I said, I don’t buy the ‘Sharpton’ position of ‘He’s a racist nut-bag who shot the poor kid walking home from the convenience store, where’s the rope?’ position.

          I also don’t buy ‘absolutely innocent’, since it’s equally-if-not-more probable that he did SOMETHING to make the shooting unjustified, than it is that it’s a perfectly clean shoot.

          The totality of the circumstances (Zimmerman attempting to become a reserve LEO in the past & being rejected, the text of the 911 call indicating a desire to intervene rather than observe/report, etc) makes me ‘handicap’ this as 50%+ ‘bad shoot’, because I find it quite believable that Zimmerman committed the initial physical assault and/or made the first threat of deadly force by displaying his weapon.

          Further, it *usually* takes more than 3″ of height to constitute deadly force in unarmed combat. A bare-handed punch or punches, even to the face, is generally NOT considered deadly force justifying the use of lethal force when defending against such an assault.

          HOWEVER, I also find it believable – just less believable – that he acted completely properly, was assaulted, and defended himself accordingly. The alleged use of ‘ground & pound’ tactics by the individual who was shot DOES help Zimmerman in this case, since it prevents him from being able to disengage physically. EG, it gives him an argument that he WAS in danger of death/great bodily harm, and that even if he started the fight he was unable to disengage from it due to being mounted.

          Therefore, I’m withholding absolute judgement until the conclusion of the police investigation and/or trial. As we’ve seen in the past, the legal system usually finds the truth in these sorts of matters (even when there’s severe official misconduct, such as the Duke case & prosecutor Nfong, the truth still came out in the end)…

          Now, if that makes me a ‘Sharptonite’, I can’t see how.

          I see this as an example of what NOT to do when armed – as someone who carries for self defense as a civilian, and who’s been in a few gunfights as a soldier.

          Remove the racial bullshit from the left, and you have a scenario that I’ve discussed with other folks who carry (on a website dedicated to firearms & personal defense issues, and in person). It’s usually used as a hypothetical to underscore that as an armed citizen, you have to go out of your way to be polite & um-confrontational, so as to preserve your justification should you have to use your weapon. Each ‘step’ you take towards conflict, is another ‘step’ toward a potentially unjustified shooting – or a justified shooting that will be seen as unjustified in court unless eyewitnesses emerge to cover the entire altercation from start to finish.

          I don’t see it as a hate-crime, or an intentional homicide, etc… I’m not calling the man racist.

          I see it as a guy who made some critical mistakes in his conduct while armed (mistakes any armed citizen might make, especially if they are only lightly familiar with the applicable law & think they have more legal breathing room than they actually do), that resulted in him being placed in a situation where he has shot someone after having done things that voided his right to self defense.

          • Tbone

            Try this, Sparky. based on all the facts the cops have gathered, the DA refused to charge the guy. Do you think there are more facts to gather? If so, what and from where? There aren’t, end of story.

          • aesthete

            Eric Holder determined that Fast and Furious was sound policy.

            Based on the Facts, Bush’s AG determined the same for Wide Receiver.

            Based on the facts, the Bush administration determined that the Palestinian Authority was capable of having an election.

            Based on the facts, the Obama administration ascertained that intervention in Libya was justified.

            I bet all the folks listed above have access to more information than you and I do about the listed subjects.

            The PD and DA have both been caught making incorrect public statements or otherwise handling the case unprofessionally. This puts their account for the investigation in a very poor light.

            There is a reason that we have a court system, that we have common law juries and adversarial courts for criminal trials, and why the back half of the Bill of Rights deals with rights of the accused and trial structure, instead of just having a tribunal of lawyers and cops to ascertain guilt. It has to do with the integrity of the process. FWIW, the lead homicide detective at the Sanford PD wanted to prosecute — does that impact how you view the case at all, given your appeal to authority?

          • morrigan

            >”the lead homicide detective at the Sanford PD wanted to prosecute”

            Prosecutors get to prosecute. Perhaps the detective in question should consider a career change.

            >”There is a reason that we have a court system”

            And there’s a reason why we have a different system which determines who gets to appear in the court system.

            >”The PD and DA have both been caught making incorrect public statements or otherwise handling the case unprofessionally.”

            That is not a determination which you get to make. A little humility would do you a world of good.

          • Dave_A

            They have NOT, which makes it still an open investigation.

            The story isn’t over, until the LEOs/DA say it’s over.

          • snowshooze

            I am getting to the point where I just don’t think I have the creative horsepower to bother with them.

          • Tbone

            and probably considers the dead kid a kindred spirit because he may have been dealing drugs and Davy is a liberal, so there you have it..

          • Dave_A

            I don’t see where you get that one…

            And it’s not like I have a short posting history….

            I think if you look at what I’ve been saying, and you look at what most firearms self-defense training programs say for this scenario, it will match up.

            Take race completely out of this one (which I have and will do, because that’s not where my position comes from), and Z did a whole bunch of things that you just don’t do, as a responsible armed citizen.

            His mistakes (note, not crimes, mistakes) are what puts him in the position of having to shoot, and thus where he may still be charged with a crime (April 10th, I’ve heard, is the next announcement).

            But I’m a liberal for not instantly leaping to his defense, without any facts other than ‘the media & the leftie kooks want his blood, so he *must* be an angel’.

            Sorry, doesn’t fly.

            Either that, or you think anyone who’s not a libertarian or an antifederalist is a liberal. Which is also wrong.

      • powertothepeople

        who was bigger, stronger, and younger than me, I would shoot them as well. When the scenario goes to what happened in that case where the kid was sitting on him punching him in the face, the justification becomes even more valid. People die from assaults and hits to the head all the time, and to believe that your life is in danger due to repeated blows to the face while you are prone is a very valid fear.

        All the other nonsense about this case such as whether or not Zimmerman was following him, talking trash, has nothing to do with anything. Even if it all turns out to be true, the moment the kid suckered punched Zimmerman or even just face to face punched him, Zimmerman went down, the kid had no justifiable reason to mount the guy and lay into him.

        So yes, being punched by a much younger, bigger, stronger thug is justification to shoot him and I am one American gun owner who would pull the trigger. And it matters little to me who or what color is doing the punching, they would quickly enter eternity.

        • Dave_A

          Nowhere.

          I’m just saying that the ‘line’ for *lethal* self defense is usually a bit beyond being punched in a one-on-one fight.

          I will agree, the dead guy assuming a ‘mount’ position provides Zimmerman with an argument for justification – although this argument can be impacted by the totality of the circumstances.

          Personally, my ‘if I was there’ is that I would never allow myself to enter hand-to-hand range with a potentially hostile individual, nor would I take any action that could result in a hand-to-hand confrontation while armed (and I generally *am* armed).

          Every engagement has a ‘decision chain’ on both sides that starts with initial discovery/encounter, goes through movement-to-contact and ends either in contact or in non-contact.

          In order to ensure that, as an armed citizen, any potential engagement is seen as justified by the ensuing investigation, you have to remain aware of *your* side of the decision chain & how it will appear to the investigating officer after the fact.

          Each time you intentionally opt to move closer to contact, you undermine your final justification just a little bit. Pursuit of the other party – one step. Face-to-face with the other party – another. Fistfight after all of the above, while armed? You’re sitting 50/50 at best.

          Proper tactics, are to conduct yourself so that all of the ‘steps’ towards initiating the final engagement are made in the other guy’s decision chain, right up until you draw your weapon & fire…

          This doesn’t mean you have to retreat *after* you’re being victimized – that’s what SYG is all about.

          It does mean that if you want a minimum of legal headaches when the cops MMQB your shooting, you should have done everything possible to avoid the situation up UNTIL the point where you are a victim in fear for your life (THEN you stand your ground & shoot).

          As noted above, each step TOWARDS the final engagement you make, is a step away from a clearly justified shoot.

          • powertothepeople

            I understand when a person has a losing argument, knows little about the debate they are trying to involve themselves in, they will usually attempt to divert attention away from their own shortcomings, but your attempt was feeble and poorly thought out.

            But by all means, try again.

  • ss396

    (I always forget how many a’s to use)

    Our buddy Eric Holder sent a few of his dear friends down there two weeks ago to look into Federal hate crimes violations. They still have not come up with any warrant, charges, or indictment so either Zimmerman is not a ra-a-a-a-acist (which would be the basis for a hate crimes charge, or the DoJ is. Which way do you want it, Mr. Sharpton? Mr. Jackson? Mr. Obama?

    The initial investigation team is off the case, after a council vote of ‘no confidence.’ The AG sent a fresh gang in, who have since been working under intense national focus and pressure to nail that Zimmerman guy. So far, again for two weeks, there has been no warrant, charges, or indictment. That makes these yellers and screamers a lynch mob. Is that your end game Mr. Sharpton? Mr. Jackson? Mr. Obama? You know, just like in the good ol’ Jim Crow days that you Democrats fostered so lovingly?

    • civil truth

      The Feds usually wait for the state to act first. What remains to be seen is whether the DOJ will file charges if the state finds insufficient evidence. Given the bias of the DOJ, I would make no wager on the outcome.

      • aeaeren

        The DOJ will find something to allow themselves to be inserted into the Zimmerman Case. In case one might not have noticed the lines of the argument are white man killed poor innocent black boy who wasn’t doing anything. At this rate I expect they will have TM heading to church to help the little old ladies ect. Saint Martin is the line being pushed.

        The DOJ will find something within the Sanford police Dept and anyone who lives here knows there are issues within that Police Dept but I don’t think it is because they are racist. They have a hard job due to the demographics of that city.

  • Flagstaff

    Or so I hear.

    Isn’t there a law against private citizens offering a bounty to “deliver someone to the Black Panthers”?

    • Common_Cents

      where there is some justice

    • BlueLandRed

      Anyone is stupid enough to try for this bounty… being that it is kidnapping and all. However, I will say that as much as I despise the New Black Panther (and the old ones as well) and what a despicable act offering this bounty is, it is a brilliant PR move on their part. As it keeps their name in the news for another 15 minutes and doesn’t cost them a dime.

      • Dave_A

        Attempting to collect on that bounty:

        1) Places you at risk of kidnapping, assault, and conspiracy charges.

        2) Places you at risk of getting shot – with much clearer justification.

    • demsaresatanic

      http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/03/26/how-many-crimes-did-the-new-black-panthers-commit-in-florida/

      • Dave_A

        Including voter intimidation…

        Are we really surprised?

        NBPP is just a black-superiority version of the KKK, without the hoods.

  • buckeyebrown

    I have a sincere question–honestly not rhetorical. George Zimmerman was following Trayvon Martin. (As a Black woman myself, I would be scared out of my mind if someone was following me like Zimmerman was following Martin.) My question is: Why did Trayvon Marin not have the right to ?Stand [His] Ground?? Seriously. Aren?t both the spirit and letter of that law written for the person being followed and not the person doing the following? Why didn?t Martin have the right to stand his ground?

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      more later

    • becky5

      We know Zimmerman was following Trayvon, but how did it go from that to a physical altercation? Who started the fight? And was it justified? I honestly don’t know.

      If its determined that Trayvon was “standing his ground” and Zimmerman was also “standing his ground”, I can easily imagine calls for some new law specifically defining what “stand your ground” is allowed to mean. No doubt that new law will be written by politicians and bureaucrats safe in their offices with the best protection money can buy, who will sit there and create a very narrow definition of what we little people will be allowed to do out on the streets when our lives are at stake. Mike is right, God help us.

    • aesthete

      to stand his ground if in fact the fight began in the course of Zimmerman continuing to follow Martin.

      If Zimmerman desisted from following Martin, and then Martin attacked Zimmerman? It doesn’t apply.

    • Ann2012

      But he implied that Zimmerman was not following him in a threatening way but was going back to his SUV when he was approached by Trayvon.

      Trayvon attacked him and the eye witness confirmed that Zimmerman was the one being beat up. If Zimmerman had all the injuries of a fight and Trayvon didn?t have any, that would indicate who was winning that fight before Zimmerman used the gun to save his own life. If he didn?t have the gun, Zimmerman may have died that night from a brain injury.

      Have you ever seen anyone have their head smashed against a sidewalk? When I was going to junior high school many years ago when the suburbs of Los Angeles were primarily white, I remember a girl in one of my classes who said that she had been threatened and told that she would be beat up after school. She was white as was most of the school.

      I remember being so afraid for her and didn?t know how she could sit there in class calmly knowing what awaited her after school. And sure enough as I was walking home a large crowd was in front of me and they were surrounding this girl and another girl who was black.

      I?m trying to remember correctly in my mind because I don?t want to ?bear false witness? but to the best of my recollection I believe she was black or hispanic because I remember being surprised to see someone not white in the area. The white girl didn?t know how to fight and was in the process of possibly being killed while the other girl took her head and kept pounding it into the sidewalk. And no one helped her. I was horrified. Finally two men drove by and saved the girl?s life.

      I think of that when I read about Trayvon smashing George?s head into the pavement. How many here would let someone continue to do that if you had a gun and could stop it. It?s called survival. When I recall what I saw in junior high school I just think to myself thank goodness that George Zimmerman had a weapon to protect himself and didn?t end up another casualty.

      I get so sick and tired of all the violence in minority communities. Look at the crime statistics which many of us do if we?re relocating somewhere, if you find a high percentage white demographic you have a low crime rate if you find a high black or hispanic neighborhood you have a high crime rate. How can we figure out a way to stop this. I would think that the peaceful and law-abiding black and hispanics in those neighborhoods would be sick and tired of it too and join together with others to change this reality.

      The first step I suppose is being able to talk about it, something that no one seems to want to do especially the MSM. Since they like to put forth the idea that all cultures are equal and there are no differences between them, to think otherwise you?re a racist. Which means, you can never find a solution if you?re forbidden to even discuss what the problem actually is.

      http://www.city-data.com/city/Sanford-Florida.html

      Crime 559.1 vs 319.1 national average.

      I don?t think the racial demographic percentage breakdown is completely accurate on city-data and fully reflects the illegal immigration statistics.

    • streiff

      and he sucker punched Zimmerman and then continued to punch him while he was down.

      It isn’t against the law to follow someone.

      Martin was 6’0″, 180 lbs. Zimmerman is 5’9″. I doubt Martin, who had bragged on his Facebook page a few days earlier about punching a bus driver in the face, was all that intimidated as Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle when he was attacked.

  • runner12

    reckless and dangerous. There are many questions surrounding this case and so many of the facts we just do not know.. When every network is either trying to outscoop the other and/or networks are trying to politicize this tragedy, misinformation abounds.

    To call Mr. Zimmerman racist and to claim this is a “hate” crime before the facts are even known is just plain wrong. The reality is that no one knows the truth or what really happened. Until the investigation is complete, Sharpton and Co. need to a). stop trying to profit (literally) off of this young man’s death. Really? How low can you get. b). stop stirring up racial discord. It does not help and you could be placing an innocent man in danger.

    • demsaresatanic

      It is a standard America-hating, Christian-hating media tactic that we are seeing, the phoney vilification of Zimmerman is entirely intentional.

      • runner12

        For others, it is just another example that journalism no longer exists among the MSM. Thank God for the New Media. They may actually rescuscitate the press.

  • snowshooze

    I was aghast at some of the drivel I read. Aghast.
    They bit off the MSM hook, line, sinker and a sizeable portion of the dock.
    With no facts whatever.
    This is a most unfortunante even which happened recently… but NOT over the last couple days. Why the wait? You tell me.
    We have little to NOTHING to build even an opinion on.
    In other words…. wasted time and space.
    But that doesn’t seem to stop a lot of people.
    And I am truely impressed with them.
    Idiots.

  • snowshooze

    edit

  • 6eorge Jetson

    Just not at the right time to push the Supreme Court’s Obamacare hearing out of the spotlight.

    • Dave_A

      The ‘spotlight’ will come when they issue their opinion, a few months from now (opinions come out at the end of the term).

  • vangoghssister

    when the day comes for them to meet their maker and find themselves on the express elevator that goes down, not straight up to the penthouse in the sky, but straight down to the basement where the boilers are…and it’s really really hot.

    Why is it that the very people they are supposedly protecting against the evil (insert color of choice here) man don’t realize they are being used by the slimiest of slimy men? Sharpton and Jackson don’t give two flying figs about Trayvon’s parents or even Trayvon himself. All they care about is shoving themselves into the spotlight once again as the saviors of all who may have been wronged. These men live for stirring up hatred, they are race baiters, but worst of all, they do this by using the grief of people who lost a child. For Trayvon’s parents, it matters not if he was a good kid or a kid gone bad, he was just their son.

    As for the New Black Panthers, as despicable a group as the KKK, what true men of God would ever condone a group like this putting a bounty on a man’s head in a situation such as this? As long as they don’t speak out against it, Sharpton and Jackson are doing exactly that.

    Sadly, George Zimmerman has a heavy burden to carry with him the rest of his life. I hope he will be able to find some sort of peace in the future.

  • clowngirl

    A month or so later:

    The evidence that quite likely would’ve proved Zimmerman innocent is gone.

    The police said he was bleeding from his face and the back of his head, had grass stains on the back of his shirt (which was also wet) and a witness who says he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him and slamming his head into the concrete.

    It was also reported that he had a broken nose.

    All of this corroborates Zimmerman’s claim of self defense and (for me at least ) removes any reasonable doubt of him being attacked.

    All of this evidence is now gone. It doesn’t seem to have been documented by photographs ( AFAIK) hearing a cop say he was bloody would not have remotely the same impact as jurors seeing for themselves.

    Unless there is much better documentation of his injuries than I am aware of (which is possible) then prosecuting now would deny Zimmerman a right to a fair trial.

    The only obvious remaining problem with his self defense claim would be “why couldn’t he able to use the gun as a mere threat? Point it at his assailant and order him to stop”

    Zimmerman has claimed that Martin went for his gun. I heard that – after the shot was fired – the next bullet didn’t come up into the chamber – and that this could be evidence of a struggle.

    • gekster

      wouldn’t the hospital where he was treated have
      a report of the injuries and treatment.
      I don’tknow if he went to the hospital or not,
      but one would think he would have.

      • lapert

        Whether justifiable or not, after shooting someone he consulted with a lawyer. And one can assume the lawyer would have instructed him to get a medical workup and preserve any evidence of his innocence.

        • clowngirl

          Zimmerman’s a student isn’t he? Probably doesn’t have a lot of money to pay for a lawyer just on the off chance the police – who told him he was in the clear – might decide to maybe arrest him a month later.

          And if he had pictures taken- whose to say they wouldn’t be called fakes?

          People accused of crimes are not supposed to have to pay for their own defense or any legal expenses if they can’t afford to do so. Paying for competent representation is the responsibility of the state. It certainly isn’t the responsibility of the accused to hire an attorney and spend money preserving evidence just on the off chance the state will change its mind and decide to prosecute him later.

    • 6eorge Jetson

      would take all of that into account.

      And could find fault with the (lack of) original police investigation. Which doesn’t do anything to remove reasonable doubt.

      I’m still of the opinion that Zimmerman-D(FL) likely has some moral culpability for creating a situation that spun out of control and left a kid dead.

      My guess is that a genuine second review would end in a dropping of the investigation without charges, but with criticism of some aspects/mistakes (“squeaky clean”; oops, didn’t check his police record) of the original investigation which didn’t inspire confidence.

      • clowngirl

        If he shot while genuinely in mortal danger ( or at least believing himself to be) then that is self defense – but if the situation resulted from him running after Martin and wouldn’t have occurred otherwise- then maybe he should be charged with reckless endangerment or something of the sort.

    • Dave_A

      1) It’s generally considered ‘best practice’ in firearms self-defense, to NOT ‘use the gun as a mere threat’.

      ‘Never point your weapon at anything you aren’t going to destroy’ is one of the rules of firearms handling.

      And threatening someone with a gun (without pointing) creates other problems – such as opening up the argument that if you had time to display the weapon, you obviously weren’t in that much danger or you would have shot instead of displayed, and the fact that displaying without shooting makes it easier for you to be disarmed. Hence the above principle.

      2) I agree with you, very poor investigation IF the media reports are correct. Almost to the point of needing ‘suspension of disbelief’.

      The weapon should have been taken as evidence, for one (media reports say Mr Zimmerman still has it) – an omission that actually hurts Zimmerman’s case (if the weapon WERE processed as evidence, then such things as who’s fingerprints were where on the weapon, the presence of a malfunction at the time the officer collected it, and so on would be in evidence).

      I find it very, very hard to see any competent police department NOT taking a detailed police report including photos of Zimmerman to document injuries/bruising/etc, photos of the shooting scene noting positions, etc…. Any hospital visit would, of course, also result in documentation & potential witnesses.

      Since the body was taken to the morgue, we can presume that documentation exists for that part of the investigation….

      3) The only thing I can think of that explains the lack of ‘released’ investigation info, is that the police are keeping the info internal to prevent any more ‘media circus’ garbage from disrupting their work.

      That does NOT explain why the weapon wasn’t processed (if media reports are correct). And like I said, the lack of said processing will likely hurt Zimmerman more than having to go buy another gun while the police hold this one – there are things that would help his case, that MIGHT be able to be proved by examining the gun, that are now forever open to speculation….

      • clowngirl

        That there isn’t more clarity because the police didn’t document and properly examine the evidence.

        Seeing liberals politicize tragic deaths has become par for the course- but the politicization and divisiveness is particularly frustrating – I’d imagine pretty much everyone is upset that the police didn’t properly investigate the first time (both Zimmerman and Martin’s family probably have a legitimate lawsuit if they choose to pursue it)

        I would hope most everyone is sorry that a 17 year old boy who – even if he wasn’t as squeaky clean as how the liberal press is portraying him – was probably a basically good kid – was cut down so early in life.

        Personally I really don’t like being in the position of feeling the need to defend somebody who used (IMO) extremely poor judgement and behaved very irresponsibly. But it’s even worse to see a borderline lynch mob mentality coming from some quarters.

  • bobbishc

    I was looking for some info on the late Buck O’Neil, former Negro League player and manager. I found this recording of his introductory remarks to a Baseball Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

    In my opinion, humorous, poignant, and relevant. It would be nice if the President, and Reverends Jackson and Sharpton would listen to it before they decide to wade into what they determine to be racial incidents.

    http://www.missourinet.com/mp3/buck.mp3

  • renl57

    Obama seemed to be suggesting that his heart goes out to the young man’s family because the young man is black.

    So if the young man were of Korean or Filipino descent, that would be a whole different story to Obama?

    Shame on him.

  • Cheetah772

    Why didn’t he listen to the dispatcher warning him not to follow Martin? Truthfully, this question can be repeated enough to make Zimmerman look guilty regardless of the facts laid out in the investigation of the shooting.

    Honestly, I don’t know if this shooting was racially motivated, but it may play a role subconsciously in Zimmerman’s mind. I did a quick Google search on various articles, and apparently he has struggled to find a steady job. He’s been falling behind his debt payments, and maybe the stress in his life led him to suspect any black person of wrongdoing in hope of getting glory or something like that. It could mean Zimmerman had some mental health problems. Who knows?

    Even if Zimmerman is found innocent of any crime, his reputation is forever ruined, and I think he deserves that. He should have listened to the dispatcher. He will be a pariah, and nobody will want him around their children or even in the same neighborhood. I sure hope Zimmerman can live with the consequences of his own foolish actions.

  • Ausonius

    unless it works for him politically.

    Has he worried about the “Black-on-Black” murders in the African-American neighborhoods occuring daily across this country? Here in Columbus we have an average of at least one per week, and sometimes more.

    Has he addressed the African-American community in order to break the cycle of murder, drug wars, lack of a complete family life for children, etc. at any point during the last years of his regime?

    The whole thing is just so transparently phony that one would think BIG BRObama would be embarrassed by taking advantage of the situation.

    One would be wrong, because MAObama like all Leftists is beyond primitive emotions like shame and embarrassment. You need to believe in a deep morality, rather than the surface relativism of opportunity, to experience shame and be motivated to avoid it.

    Like a true scion of Nietzsche, BIG BRObama has gone beyond Good and Evil and is capable of exploiting any situation for his personal gain.

  • independentmike

    The liberal media’s attempt to portray George Zimmerman as the bad guy and Trayvon Martin as the victim is downright shocking when you consider all the known facts about the shooting.

    Setting the Record Straight in the Trayvon Martin Shooting
    http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/martinshooting.htm

    Did you know that Martin was caught at school with women’s jewelry and a favorite tool of burglars in his backpack (a long flatnosed screwdriver)?

    Did you know that Martin tweeted about slapping girls and killing “haters”?

    Did you know that one of Martin’s Facebook buddies praised him for having tried to hit a school bus driver?

    Did you know that Martin came over to Zimmerman’s car, while Zimmerman was still in it, and stared at him and then ran off? This was *before* Zimmerman ever got out of the car. This is right on the 911 transcript.

    I document these and other facts in the above article.

  • http://www.thepaytons.org/essays/considerettes/ dpayton

    The black former news anchor and reporter would came out to defend Zimmerman would disagree with you. As might the two black kids he and his family voluntarily mentored.

  • westcoastpatriette

    has yet to be fully answered and the answer can only be given by George Zimmerman himself. Furthermore, the answer to that question may hold the key to allow us to not only feel compassion for George Zimmerman, but also to turn the tables on those who want to see him in the worst possible light. We simply must wait until all the facts come out before we are able to come to wise conclusions about what happened that day. Until then, I believe that America is better than this and, in the end, will not allow the louder, obnoxious voices who are using this tragedy for self-promotion to prevail.

  • Mr. Sandman

    behavior and assumptions that are causing this incident to be blown up into much more than it should be. Your “quick Google search” turned up innuendo, which you then used to segue into a biased statement based not in fact, but assumption: “He?s been falling behind his debt payments.” You then use that as a springboard into insinuating that he is a latent racist and mentally ill…all based on a “quick Google search”, That is really something that you should be ashamed of, it’s the same lack of self-discipline that Obama showed when he made his ignorant and ill-advised comments in this case. This world needs more people who can disconnect the short circuit between their brains and mouth (or keyboard), not people who unwittingly throw more gas on the fire with a rush to judgement.

  • anjinconsulting

    If he put himself in dire straits because of his ‘foolish’ actions thats one thing.

    This has NOTHING to do with race. If he was on the ground, being beaten and was afraid for his life (whether or not he ‘deserved’ it or because he didnt listen to the dispatcher) and shot his attacker…well it sucks to be the attacker.

    What is sad is your pathetic and not so discrete attempt to use race by citing some “research” and some salacious detail and speculation.

  • aeaeren

    Our NATIONAL MEDIA completely and utterly SUCKS. If you want more accurate reporting about this case try the local Orlando media as they are trying to report the facts but like all investigation it doesn’t all come out at the same time. One would think the Media would have learned this lesson after the Casey Anthony mess and make sure to express that before going off on their wild goose chases.

    1) Zimmermann DID WALK away at least that is the latest as of yesterday.Martin came back to Zimmerman they exchanged words and Martin attacked Zimmerman sucker punching him in the nose and then bashing his head into the concrete sidewalk. All the while Zimmerman is screaming for help, The 911 tapes collaborate this screaming. There has been information that Martin may have been going after Zimmerman’s weapon but this hasn’t been CONFIRMED yet and not wildy reported and doubtful if true that you will see it on the national News.

    2) Alot of the new stuff is not actually NEW Stuff as the local media reported it already. Walking away and being attacked by Martin. Martin not being the choir boy that he is being protrayed to be by the media and his parents.

    3) The Law basically says YOU HAVE TO PROVE beyond a doubt that Zimmerman was NOT defending himself. Since the cops have at least 2 witness’s testimony that back up Zimmerman what charge do you want him arrested for? Oh and nothing else that might have transpired before the moment he shot him matters only at the time he pulled that trigger did he feel his life was in jeopardy or great bodily harm. He could have followed him, provoked it ect. Martin had a reponsibility to police himself in this matter also.

    Finally the media keeps using the picture of poor ole innocent 13 year old Martin and not the 17 year old version. Why do they want to cause a riot for political gain is beyond a reasonable person’s conscience.

    Sanford has issues regarding the police force and this investigation might prove they have more issues but UNTIL it is completed can we like Joe Friday says “Stick to the FACTS”

    I was outraged at yesterdays City counsel meeting. Race baiting fools who stir up the pot then leave after it is all blown up. This is going to cause major issues for a LONG TIME and all of it could have been avoided if POLITICS where left out of it. Equal Justice is not EQUAL too all in Rev Al’s eyes and he is making sure it isn’t equal in this case. If anything should happen to Mr Zimmerman I hope the State of Florida goes after these race baiters as they have cost us Tax Payers of Florida a ton of money and could cost us even more if we have to find a untainted Jury.

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  • uncmike

    I agree with you completely. You have BIG BRObama and his ilk figured exactly right.

  • Cheetah772

    Come on, if Zimmerman were put on the stand, can he answer the question, “Why didn’t you listen to the dispatcher?” without looking stupid? Why did he HAVE TO follow Martin? The cross-examination would be brutal for him. I’m almost certain anything that comes out of Zimmerman’s mouth will look awfully guilty.

    I’m not saying that Zimmerman is definitely guilty, but his behavior in the incident is borderline on unacceptable for somebody who wants to be in law enforcement. It may be that Martin beat him to a pulp, and Zimmerman had to defend himself, i can accept that, but in the minds of many observers like me, such action was wholly unnecessary had he followed the dispatcher’s instruction.

    I bet you that right now Zimmerman is regretting his own actions, and wished that he had followed the dispatcher’s instruction. In his pursuit of glory and heroism, he got more than what he bargained for.

  • freedom555

    “The black former news anchor and reporter” has a story I’m not buying at this point.

    His story about his relationship with Zimmerman changes from one interview to another.

    He says they are close friends in one moment ….and in the next he claims to know little about Zimmerman’s life.

    AND he’s quit his job in order to defend Zimmerman to the MSM !!!

    To me Joe Oliver is coming off as an attention seeker—–and not serving Zimmerman well.

  • streiff

    he wasn’t there, he didn’t see what I saw, I don’t have a moral, legal, or ethical obligation to listen to a police dispatcher (who aren’t sworn officers, btw), it was public property and I had every right to be there under the law, the fact that I didn’t listen has no bearing on the charges laid against me.

  • Tbone

    If “ifs” and “buts” were fruits and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas.

    I am sure Zimmerman regrets what happened but not nearly as much as we all should regret that we live in a society where a person can get lynched by a leftwing, liberal media fanned on by racist hypocrites like Jackson, Sharpton, the kid’s greedy parents with a racist, divisive president who is making a buck selling sweatshirts.

    That is what you should be writing about instead of your whiny, handwringing, accusatory tripe.

    Why don’t you remove your Biblical quote so people won’t think all Christians are fools?

  • http://www.thepaytons.org/essays/considerettes/ dpayton

    It looks like Zimmerman may very well have made some bad decisions in the incident that he regrets now. There is likely plenty of blame to go around. But being racially motivated is really off the table, if all the evidence so far leaked out is true.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I have. What if Zimmerman was simply trying to prevent any more burglaries in his neighborhood? Since when is a good neighbor looking out for the neighborhood to be considered a bad guy? Your inability to see this outside of your small box is causing you to condemn a good Samaritan whose instincts told him something was wrong. I wouldn’t want you on my jury if I were in Zimmerman’s shoes.

  • Lynn Otting

    Zimmerman did not follow him after the dispatcher told him to not to? How do you know he continued to follow him? I am defending Zimmerman in any way what so ever, but to state things that may or may not be true is how we got to this point today.

  • jc230

    I don’t get why folks are stuck on the dispatcher asking Zimmerman not to follow the person in question. In my opinion, this is more about safety of Zimmerman than it is about a “law” to not follow a person the 911 caller is concerned about. I’ve called 911, and was following the person (driver in my case), so I could keep the police aware of the suspicious person’s location, and the dispatcher wanted me to be careful. At the time of the call, the dispatcher was concerned about my well being, my safety.

  • JX12

    …but liberals are not. They’ll milk this cow until it’s dry if they think they can get any political mileage out of it. If it turns out George Zimmerman is truly innocent in all this, too bad. They don’t care. It is – and always has been – all about them.

  • JX12

    NT

  • Joshua Persons

    nt

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Also, lay off the cocoa puffs, because you’re already cuckoo enough.

  • Bill S

    In a very sci-fi-esque way…

  • gekster

    it’s posters like this that makes me believe I’m sane. ;)

  • Ann2012

    .

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    Just when I get going on a decipher script to find the ~reAl M!ESS-ag**e, you become a euthanasiast!

  • http://www.thestandardcandle.com Justin Spagnolo

    Looks like a spam machine’s work exploiting wordpress…

  • Cheetah772

    You are correct in stating that Zimmerman was under no obligation to obey the police dispatcher. But where was his common sense? He followed Martin when that maybe was not necessary to do so. That could be construed as a sign of looking for trouble. Likewise, it can be argued that Martin lost his common sense by coming around to Zimmerman’s SUV unseen, and started to confront him, when Martin could have walked away without any trouble whatsoever.

    My point is, I don’t think Zimmerman can give a satisfactory answer of why he was following Martin against the advice of the dispatcher. Regardless of the investigation’s outcome, Zimmerman’s reputation is forever damaged. A single moment of stupidity costed a young black man his life, and the other his reputation.

  • streiff

    Martin is 6’0″, 180 lbs. Zimmerman is 5’9″.

    Martin boast on his Facebook page of punching a bus driver just a few days before the incident.

    Martin’s friend joke on Twitter that they are sure Martin punched out Zimmerman.

  • Scope

    I am certain will be analyized, and whose voice it was will be determined. Heck if we can verify and authenticate that it was in fact Bin Laden’s voice, we can tell whose voice was on the tape.

  • Dave_A

    Some form of manslaughter, with the reasoning being excessive force – at a minimum.

    Witnesses to a fight aren’t enough, either – Like I said above, if Zimmerman started the fight & didn’t attempt to withdraw, he doesn’t get to claim self defense…

    Look how easy it’s been for the press to convince most of the nation that he wasn’t justified… A competent DA will be able to convince a jury of the same thing, UNLESS more evidence surfaces to back up Zimmerman actually (a) being in fear for his life, and (b) being there through no fault/provocation of his own.

  • Cheetah772

    Martin was walking away from a convenience store, so obviously he wasn’t planning to burglarize anyone’s home. There is no indication that he was planning to commit any kind of crime. But then I can’t read Martin’s mind, as he’s already dead.

    Thinking in small box? I never denied that Zimmerman may be innocent in this matter. I’m leaving the door wide open to all possibilities in this case. From where I stand, I believe that BOTH Zimmerman and Martin are responsible. Both made a stupid decision that affected their lives forever, and that’s the end of it. Zimmerman will have to live with the consequences of his own action. Martin lost his life.

  • aeaeren

    No matter the truth you will always ask another question until it the one you want.

    Like Forrest’s mom said, “Life is like a box of cholates you never know what you are going to get”

    In this case would’ve should’ve doesn’t change a thing.

    We have 1 Dead, 1 kid Tramatized and Lord knows how many of the other residents are not having nightmares and then this side show circus in town making it even worse without one care in the world for what happens.

  • streiff

    He doesn’t have to give a “satisfactory answer” because the dispatcher is simply not relevant. A dispatcher has zero authority.

    If someone breaks into my house maybe common sense tells me to scoot out the back door but I don’t have to use it.

  • ss396

    Martin was on foot, you know, and could go places Zimmerman couldn’t with his vehicle. So Zimmerman got out to try to locate where Martin had gotten to, since the 911 gang were already on their way. Martin comes up from behind…and here it all goes bad.

    Is that an unsatisfactory answer, too? If so, how? If not, stop yapping.

  • Cheetah772

    The tone of your post made me smile, reminding me of a certain person in the real life. That person is the left-wing version of you, it’s as if somebody took out your left brain and put it in that person.

    Thanks for the jog down the memory lane. That person and I always had hot debate on political, economic, and social issues.

  • jdw4america

    We all know what’s going on here. Who is George Zimmerman and why was he following Martin? He is part of his neighborhood watch and knew that Martin was not from his neighborhood.

    Call me racist, (cause I know the left will anyway) but if I see somebody – anybody – walking up my street with a mouth full of gold teeth, tattooed six ways to Sunday, at night, I’d want to know what he was doing there…even if the occupant of the White House might afterwards opine on the possible resemblance of said person to his own non-existent offspring. I would wonder even if he were white, actually…or Asian…or Middle Eastern…or Hispanic. I’m evil that way, I guess.

    The reality is that the leftist operatives in the MSM, and inside the local government read that a man named George Zimmerman killed a black teenager and thought they had hit the lottery. Surely this will remind America of how thoroughly racist and intolerant we are as a people, and out of guilt for crimes perpetrated by others who don’t look like the occupant’s imaginary sons will re-elect him in in a tsunami of self-loathing.

    Cause George Zimmerman is a Jew, right? Soledad, it’s safe to come back out again!

    Except, in the immortal words of Scooby Doo – “Ruh-ro!” Not so fast, Soledad.

    Unfortunately, the narrative* went horribly, horribly wrong. Mr. Zimmerman isn’t Jewish. Mr. Zimmerman isn’t white. Mr Zimmerman is Hispanic. The MSM, were so busily enjoying the multiple orgasms they were experiencing at their ability to salvage their deified hero, neglected to fact check.

    You know what looks like racism to me? That the MSM and the POTUS and the idiots on the leftist blogs stepped in it with their rush to scream “racist,” and “gun control” and do not now know how to rectify it without admitting what they are and what they do. They don’t give a damn about Trayvon Martin or anybody else; they are using his death to push the narrative.** If both of these people had been white, there would be no coverage here. If both of them had been black, there would be no coverage here. If the dead man were white and the live one were black, there would be no coverage here. The left is doing what the left does best – they are lying.

    Excuse me while I go publicly seek a hitman for some NBP members who are publicly seeking a hitman for George Zimmerman, who actually looks like MY sons…and brothers…and father…you get the picture.*** What? I can’t do that? Conspiracy to commit? But they did it, so I thought it’s okay now to announce your intention to murder someone… y’know with barry sending DOJ to Florida? I forgot, two sets of rules. Nevermind.

    (Oh and one of you idiots with the leg tingles, maybe you want to tell your illustrious-smartest-guy-in-the-room to keep his mouth shut when the teleprompter’s off; his polls numbers don’t look good as is without his constant jibber-jabber. Some of your compadres are breaking ranks, and he keeps giving them reasons to do so.)

    *Thank you, Andrew.
    **God bless you, Andrew
    ***Hyperbole, not reality

  • westcoastpatriette

    from a store (if that in fact has been confirmed) but how in the heck do you know he was not casing the neighborhood to map out plans for another burglary? The answer is you don’t know that. And Zimmerman did not know that, either. I think you are here to provoke for the fun of it so I’m done with this thread.

    Why don’t you give us an explanation for how Zimmerman’s nose got broke? Or go on a rant about how stupid it was for Martin to assault Zimmerman? Is that Zimmerman’s fault, too? Get a clue.

  • streiff

    he wasn’t planning to burglarize anyone’s home? how do we know that? his backpack was checked by a school security guard after he was seen vandalizing a door and they found women’s jewelry and a “burlary tool” (the security report’s words).

    We know nothing at all along the lines of the claim you are making.

  • Cheetah772

    Zimmerman’s life is ruined forever. That’s simple as it gets. If the police say he’s innocent, then I have no problem with that. But his life is over as of right now.

  • Cheetah772

    But is it possible that Zimmerman could have made a better choice?

    Either way, if the police thinks he is innocent, and the investigation is all done, then I have no problem with that.

  • Cheetah772

    I have to go to work right now, in fact I’m a bit late for work because of the ongoing debate right here on Redstate.

    But I want to thank you for being polite in debating with me, and this goes for all others as well. I hope other posters will read this, too.

    Maybe I will change my mind on this issue once I read more articles on this case. Honestly, I haven’t read any new article since other than what I googled a week ago.

    I enjoyed this debate. Thanks for that.

  • greyeagle

    Had a broken nose, and said his head was banged against sidewalk several times and cut badly enough for stitches. The 911 dispatcher said it was him calling for help. He said the kid jumped him decked him, then proceeded to bank his head against concrete. I live about 10 miles from the town involved. People need to stay out of that town for awhile.

  • Scope

    Have you deemed it to be so? You just don’t seem able to stop accusing Zimmerman, while not knowing any of the facts. I agree with WCP, I’d hate to have someone like you sitting on a jury judging me on my guilt or innocence.

    Here is an article that talks about a school police investigator, back in Oct., seeing Treyvon on a school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” He watched him write WTF on a school locker, and going through his back pack, finds ladies jewelry including silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds, and a large screw driver. When questioned where he got them, he said a friend gave them to him.

    How do you know that Martin wasn’t already a suspect in one or more of the many robberies that were taking place in that neighborhood? There are reports that crime rates were very high in that area. Why would a friend give him silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds in them? Wasn’t he already caught on camera in an unauthorized area hiding and being suspicious?

    Before you condem Zimmerman to a life of hell, why don’t you withhold judgement until the full investigation is complete?

  • aeaeren

    Florida will find he is justified and within the law, The feds on the other had WILL NOT and they will go after him with hate crime law.The DOJ will then demonize the State of Florida and all the other states that have Stand your Ground laws and sue them. God I can’t wait and pray for Novemenber that enough of my fellow citizens see what this President is doing to our country with his hacks.

  • JSobieski

    Whether his choice constituted a crime is the better question.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    He could have registered as a Republican instead of as a Democrat

  • Tbone

    Why are you so critical of Zimmerman’s decisions? Trayvon((R) by his greedy momma) decided to attack him and he got his hoodlum butt shot. Now, that was a bad decision.

  • Cheetah772

    To be fair, I don’t know you in real life, but you would have enjoyed debating with him. He’s rough on manners, but articulate and intelligent enough to make his points. I am saying this genuinely. He loves to make snarky remarks, like you do. That’s why I smiled at your post.

    My leftist freind and I never see eye-to-eye on many issues, but occasionally he will agree with me on some areas.

    I will freely admit that you and other posters make some good points. But in the end, I think both Martin and Zimmerman made bad decisions.

    Again, thanks for giving me the Tbone treatment. I respect that. You have a good day, Tbone. God bless you.

  • uncmike

    Thanks for painting the picture the way it really looks. And I might add too many supposed conservatives are just as quick to pass judgment on Zimmerman as those on the left. As you say, it’s not about Martin. In my view, it’s about scaring the blacks into another lock-step vote for obama–another form of the commercial dragging the black guy behind the pickup truck and to huckster up a few more bucks for his campaign. Truth matters not a whit to the left and apparently those on the right who still have pangs of guilt are also quick to jump to judgement w/out benefit of any facts.

  • aesthete
  • demsaresatanic

    much better than your earlier material.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    away from the pressure of a media conviction. Watch this story fall off the MSM’s agenda.

    I still think an independent review from a dispassionate “second opinion” is worthwhile. But I don’t view Zimmerman as a “white knight.”

    <snark>He’s a typical racist Democrat.</snark>

  • Dave_A

    Is that we don’t know enough…

    We know that someone was shot, and the shooter claims self defense…

    The following are possible scenarios for such a shooting:

    1) Shooter just shot the dead guy unprovoked.

    2) Shooter’s life was legitimately threatened, and it was justified self defense.

    3) Shooter provoked a non-lethal confrontation, then resorted to lethal force once the now-dead guy got the upper hand.

    4) Dead guy provoked a non-lethal confrontation, and shooter responded with lethal force.

    The more extreme elements (NBPP, Sharpton) want everyone to believe it was (1)

    Zimmerman says (2).

    Personally, I believe (3) or (4) is more likely, as no weapons were found on the body & there’s no indication the kid was capable of ‘disparate force’ simply with his hands (high school kid, not Tito Ortiz).

    Actual WITNESS statements don’t give us enough information to tell which of (2), (3), or (4) it was yet – although it seems they do provide enough to discount (1).

    For example, *if* Zimmerman was losing a hand-to-hand fight when he shot, we have the question of who STARTED that fight… You don’t get to pick a fistfight, then shoot your opponent when it starts to go badly for you, stand-your-ground or not.

    OTOH, if Zimmerman tried to disengage from the fight & the dead guy wouldn’t let him (pursued him, etc) then self-defense comes back into the picture even if Zimmerman started the fight…

    Further, the question becomes ‘what was he defending himself against’ – you have to prove to the court that a ‘reasonable person’ in the same scenario would have feared death or great bodily harm… Which is NOT a slam-dunk here, due no evidence of weapons on/near the body….. Possible? Yes… Easy? No – not like if the police found a gun on the dead guy….

    I’m not going to absolutely pass judgement here, but based on the (very thin) available information it DOES seem like the guy is more likely guilty of using excessive force at a minimum, as opposed to completely justified.

    We will see, as the investigation progresses. The police/courts usually do a better job of this sort of thing than the press, after all….

  • aeaeren

    but since the burden would be on State to prove that Martin didn’t attack him it’s a tough one for them. They would have to toss out 2 eye witness accounts and the other 911 tapes and spin one massive story which I can’t see holding water. But then again we are talking about Florida and after the Casey Anthony verdict ANYTHING is possible.

    It could be that Zimmerman started the fight and was losing it but I just don’t see it in this case. I see it more like it is starting to come out. Saint Martin isn’t so Saintly (I am being saracastic here as I am sick of Jesse and Al’s potrayal of Martin) and attacked him from behind and was bashing his head into the sidewalk or going after the gun. Also remember even if Martin was innocent he is still responible for his actions if he was beating Zimmerman and wasn’t going to stop and might have cause great bodily harm or the death of Mr. Zimmerman then what says he doesn’t have the right to defend himself then?

    This boils down to some very bad choices on all parties and the way our society has evolved over time with crime rates, race relations ect. It’s a fact of life that Black People are watched with a weary eye unless they are known but am I racist for being prudent or do the crime facts say I am being cautious? It woudl be nice to have this discussion and be able to move forward with becoming a truely equal people but that is NEVER going happen with people like Rev Al and his ilk.