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RomneyCare Inspires ObamaCare, But Not America

Two years ago, President Obama signed into law ObamaCare, his signature piece of  legislation.  As a direct result of that law’s unpopularity, Congressional Democrats suffered devastating defeats in the midterm election of 2010, losing more than sixty seats in the House.  It would be an understatement to say the President’s healthcare overhaul law is merely “unpopular.”  According to several recent polls, Americans still overwhelmingly oppose ObamaCare by a two-to-one margin.  Americans understand that not only is this the wrong solution to our healthcare needs and challenges, it is also an affront to freedom that makes our families’ health and country’s fiscal health more fragile.

The 2012 election should be an opportunity for Americans to elect a President committed to ObamaCare’s repeal and replacement with sound free-market competition.  But that is where this 2012 election has an unusual aspect.  The original architect of the Democrats’ unpopular healthcare law is himself also running for president on the GOP ticket.  Mitt Romney, one of the candidates in the race for the GOP nomination, authored and championed his own version of ObamaCare less than six years ago.

Over the past two years, Americans have learned more about ObamaCare and about the true impact of this law.  By the Democrats’ own stated objectives, the law has been an utter failure.  Democrats in Congress and President Obama made several claims about ObamaCare; they promised Americans that the law would bend the healthcare cost downward.  They also promised that it would be “budget neutral,” that it would achieve “universal coverage,” and that families would immediately see their health insurance costs decrease.  On each and every account, the law has failed.  Instead, public sector and private sector  health care costs are rising.  The Democrats’ “budget neutral” bill is, in reality, going to cost trillions of dollars more for American families, small businesses, and taxpayers.  And rather than reducing families’  health insurance costs, most Americans have  already seen their health insurance premiums rise. (And unions, businesses, and states alike are rushing to plead with the Obama Administration for waivers from the disastrous and partisan law.)

All of these side effects of ObamaCare were entirely foreseeable.  Anyone who has studied Massachusetts under RomneyCare could have predicted each of these problems.

Mitt Romney has been on the defensive for the past several weeks, trying to explain to GOP primary voters how his government takeover of health care in Massachusetts was somehow different than ObamaCare.  The task has proven incredibly difficult because the laws are, in numerous ways, identical.   Romney’s challenge to draw distinctions has been made even more difficult now that White House senior advisor David Plouff last week called Mitt Romney the “godfather” of ObamaCare.

It’s worth noting that the White House knows just how unpopular the health care law is, and they’re looking to share the blame with someone else.  After all, if Mitt Romney becomes the GOP nominee, the Obama Administration will have effectively neutralized the ObamaCare issue.

Mitt Romney, confronted by the reality that ObamaCare remains unpopular, has tried to manufacture distinctions between his healthcare law and the President’s.  Unfortunately, all of the major flaws of ObamaCare can be found in RomneyCare.

There are several key objections that conservatives have about ObamaCare.  And those objections equally apply to RomneyCare.  For limited-government conservatives, one of the most offensive aspects of ObamaCare is the “individual mandate.”  Conservatives. The National Federation of Businesses, and twenty-seven states rightly point out in their legal challenge considered this week by the Supreme Court that our government simply does not have the authority to require anyone to purchase something – whether it is health insurance or an American-made car, or anything else.  The Constitution grants very specific and clearly defined powers to Congress.  The authority to dictate particular purchases, thankfully, is not one of those powers.

But Mitt Romney’s views differ from those of most conservatives in this country.  He does believe that government – both at the state and at the federal level – possesses the right to dictate to individuals what they must purchase.  RomneyCare includes an individual mandate that functions exactly like ObamaCare’s individual mandate.  And, beyond that, Mitt Romney penned an Op-Ed in 2009 for USA Today, in which he encouraged President Obama to adopt his state’s individual mandate.  He boasted that the individual mandate is an effective way to encourage people to take responsibility for their own health care.  He never expressed any concerns about what an abuse of power it is for the federal government to take that action.  Classically for Mitt, his Op-Ed this past week in USA Today failed to mention that his Ted Kennedy embraced affront to freedom in Massachusetts punished businesses and families with fines that failed to comply with his big-government prescribed solution to the healthcare needs of citizens and pushed more people into taxpayer-financed Medicaid rolls.

While for both ObamaCare and RomneyCare, the central policy healthcare prescription is government coercion, rather than market-based incentives and choice, both ObamaCare and Romneycare failed to address the number one challenge for healthcare in America – rising costs.  Not only did they not address it, they exacerbated it for families, businesses, and taxpayers.  This is failed leadership.  It should not surprise us that a policy prescription for such an important issue produced such outcomes when driven primarily by Governor Romney and Democrats in Massachusetts and entirely by Barack Obama and Democrats in partisan fashion in Washington, D.C.  Massachusetts under Governor Romney had the highest healthcare premiums in the country and the growing burden of healthcare costs for our nation remains the primary long-term threat to our economic and fiscal future.

The 2012 election is about one central philosophic point: How big of a federal government do we want and is that where the solutions lie to the challenges that face America?  Do we share the Obama-Romney view that government possesses vast and broad powers to dictate anything it pleases?  Or do we prefer the view of our founding fathers and the authors of the Constitution?   Do we embrace the status quo, which is good for the establishment, but not good for America?  Or do we once again, correct our course, and embrace the inalienable rights endowed by our creator of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the pursuit of a better America?

A primary reason that I chose to run this election cycle is that I believe ObamaCare is an assault on America’s system of limited government.  I believe in American solutions to America’s challenges.  This is how we renew our economy and our prosperity.  Our founding fathers wisely designed a Constitution that protects individual liberty by limiting the scope and size of government.  Pretending that one will only be big government at the state level and not at the federal level, if given the opportunity, doesn’t pass the commonsense test for most Americans.  Unlike on Wall Street, in government, past performance does indicate future performance.  It’s also the best thing that voters have to go on.

The authors of the Constitution correctly understood that there is an inverse relationship between the size of government and individual liberty. ObamaCare is a dramatic departure from our tradition of limited government and needs to be stopped.   And, unfortunately, Mitt Romney does not offer a satisfying or credible alternative to the Democrats’ view of an ever-expansive government.  Unlike Governor Romney, I have successfully led on free-market solutions for our healthcare needs and challenges like health savings accounts and choice and competition in Medicare.  I have led the charge to end and reform entitlements, not to add to them.

President Obama would love for the Republican voters to neutralize this central issue in the 2012 debate about our vision for America and her future.  Let’s embrace freedom instead.

Rick Santorum, a former representative and senator from Pennsylvania, is a candidate for the Republican nomination for president. 

COMMENTS

  • garfieldjl

    While Gingrich and you can be trusted to repeal the monstrosity, Romney can’t. He’s had ample opportunity to say Romneycare was a mistake, he even could have done so in a way that shifted blame to Obama about there being a different intent and Obamacare showed how much that power could be abused, but he didn’t.

    • surfcitysocal

      The fact remains that Romneycare is pure, hard, black and white evidence of Romney’s top-down approach to governing–which is no different than Obama’s–and thus, why Romney cannot be trusted to repeal.

      • Xasteius

        But mentioning Santorum’s version would be a threadjack.

    • annie54

      because without your energy and persistence, Romney will sail right through with the establishment’s blessing.

      I couldn’t squeeze my nose tight enough to vote for Romney, so I’m praying for the name of Rick Santorum to be on the ballot.

      • radicalrighty

        nt

    • rabun1016

      What an embarrassment to the constitutional law professors at Dickinson that Santorum cannot grasp the difference between state rights and federal rights. I have no problem with any program a state wants to try. That what states should do, versus waiting for the feds to tell them what needs to be done. I have a big problem though with a federal hijacking of health care. I don’t think there is any likelihood that Romney will not unwind national healthcare.

      • annplato

        The thinking is clear that he believes that the “masses” need to be taken care of by the smarter, richer and the most powerful. His Mormon upbringing adds to his conviction: the Mormons do live what they consider “biblical” (of the Old Testament type): one head that stores and distributes the “wealth” among the entire congregation”. Those deemed to be the “producers” will be amply encouraged and aided to produce more (and become more “esteemed” in the leadership status of the congregation), whole the rest are merely used to support the “leaders” by doing enough to sustain themselves and pay their “tithes” (taxes). Velvet revolution anyone?

    • stardustsara

      does anyone listen to what romney actually says and why it is different from obamacara. first, it is state mandated – not federal – romney doesn’t believe in the federal government mandating healthcare. second, it was for only 10% of the population in massachusetts. why don’t you people research policies before you just shoot your mouths off.

      • halle

        http://conservativesamizdat.blogspot.com/search/label/RomneyCare

        All of the Romney haters, you should read this and the rest of
        the Samizdat blogs.

  • acat

    I see quite a lot of ink (okay, pixels) here talking about the objections to Obamacare, and pinning blame on it squarely on Romney. On this, we agree.

    What I don’t see is the paragraph where you come out and talk about how you will work to repeal Obamacare.

    Was this an oversight?

    Mew

    • Stricia

      As related to the diary, Senator — it will be interesting to see how the SCOTUS eventually rules and how the Democrats respond.

      • acat

        (it’d be a bribe-payer, not bribe-taker, by the way…)

        My curiosity is sated.

        Mew

    • ddawg

      http://www.ricksantorum.com/repeal-and-replace-obamacare-patient-centered-healthcare

  • Xasteius

    Specifics please.

    • lineholder

      The time for vague commitments has come and gone. Too much is at stake. It has become necessary now to ask the what, how, and why questions.

    • jamesm

      ..

    • ddawg

      Santorum’s plan can be found at: http://www.ricksantorum.com/repeal-and-replace-obamacare-patient-centered-healthcare

  • Common_Cents

    Put Romney on the defensive. Call him out.

    • garfieldjl

      I really want this race to be between you and Gingrich and have the “etch-a-sketch” out of this race.

    • vastrightwingconspiracy

      …he supported a mandate too.

      How about debating the substance of health care and how the government can make it better by getting involved or getting out of the way.

      My guess is Rick would get schooled by both Romney and Newt.

      You can only get so far on “you supported a mandate.” What’s left to say?

  • http://www.writeinryan.com ragnarthepirate

    Don’t talk about anything other than this until Tamps. Make your campaign a referendum on whether Romney should be the nominee.

    In fact, you can’t really win outright. Considering saying you will not serve as nominee and that a vote for you is merely a vote against Romney and for an open convention.

    • vastrightwingconspiracy

      …Obama over Romney.

      Isn’t that enough?

  • mikelindell2

    is the fact that you repeatedly refer to Speaker Gingrich as “Congressman Gingrich.” You parade around the country pretending to be a moral and truthful person, yet you cannot even call someone you claimed was your friend by his proper title. You were a nothing senator for two terms, Newt was speaker, 2nd in line to be president. His accomplishments and level of success far outweigh anything you did. You call yourself a true conservative but your ACU rating is lower than Newt’s. You say that you had to side with Big Labor because you were elected from PA, but Pat Toomey was elected from the same state and has actually stood up for right to work. Worst of all, you have no chance of winning but you stay in and damage Republicans by making erratic, outlandish statements on archaic social issues like contraception, college, pornography, and the separation of church and state that reflect terribly on the party.
    Wearing a sweater vest doesn’t make you a moral person or a conservative. To your credit, you’ve fooled many people into thinking that you are both of these things.

    You endorsed Romney in ’08 and credited Newt with much of your career and said you’d like him as your VP in an earlier debate. Sounds like you have no reason to be running against either of them.

    • mikelindell2

      was how you increased our national debt by trillions of dollars. You were part of the Bush-era big spending, big government Republicans that got thrown out so decisively in 2006.

      Last but not least, your tax plan is the most ridiculous pander imaginable. Your tax proposal of government picking winners and losers would be so destructive and would create so much fraud (massive fraud according to National Review), we can only hope it never sees the light of day.

    • JSobieski

      Nt

  • NeoKong

    As much as I could tolerate Romney as POTUS I have to wonder how he will defend himself against Obama on stage when his own words and programs are thrown in his face.

    “Well Governor…we modeled the ACA on your model in Massachusetts.
    What is the difference….?”

    It would be like Ronald McDonald arguing against the hamburger.

    • acat

      (the danger of mis-remembered pop-culture ‘tropes … perhaps you meant arguing against Hamburgler instead of President “Ich bin ein Hamburger” ??)

      That said, the one thing Sen. Santorum’s piece here is missing is .. what he would do with Obamacare.

      Look, I enjoy a good Romney-bash as much as the next cat, but .. there’s nothing here that says what Santorum would do differently, eh?

      Mew

  • morrigan

    “In a few short days, Republicans from across this country will decide more than their party’s nominee. They will decide the very future of our party and the conservative coalition that Ronald Reagan built. Conservatives can no longer afford to stand on the sidelines in this election, and Governor Romney is the candidate who will stand up for the conservative principles that we hold dear, Governor Romney has a deep understanding of the important issues confronting our country today, and he is the clear conservative candidate that can go into the general election with a united Republican party.”

    Rick Santorum, Feb 1st, 2008.

    “Mitt Romney

    • ddawg

      Santorum has made a credible case for why one might have changed their mind between then and now.

      The two biggest reasons are Romney’s support of the Wall Street bailouts and his advocacy for mandates during the Obamacare debate.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        Unfortunately for him, his voting record speaks so loudly it’s really hard to hear him.

        • jeffreywturner

          His lifetime ACU rating is 88.1, which is pretty good. Do you know of a more trusted ratins service than ACU that puts a numerical score on all votes for his entire career? If so, please share – I would love to see how they rate him..

          • Lynn Otting

            where Romney has any better of a record than Santorum. Looking at the two, Santorum may have a better record. Of course, Romney does have a business background which I am not so certain makes him a better candidate. Personally, I think you toss a coin and choose.

  • morrigan

    >”if Mitt Romney becomes the GOP nominee, the Obama Administration will have effectively neutralized the ObamaCare issue.”

    Will the majority of the American people who oppose Obamacare (a majority which includes Mitt Romney) somehow be “neutralized” if Romney becomes the GOP nominee? How does that work, exactly?

    If the GOP nominated a person who endorsed Obamacare and promised to veto any legislation which aimed to repeal it, then you could argue that such a nominee would neutralize opposition to Obamacare. But such is not the case here.

    Romneys opinion of Romneycare no more invalidates his opinion of Obamcare than Santorum’s call for a “war on porn” invalidates his views about limited government.

    • ddawg

      Yes, Romney will campaign on repealing and replacing Obamacare. (Side note: I’ve looked at Romney’s “replace” items on his website, but I would like to hear more specifics on that count from all of the candidates.)

      However, when the Obama campaign highlights: Romneycare, Romney’s support of mandates during the Obamacare debate, comments from those with ties to Romneycare saying that it helped establish a framework for Obamacare, etc., Romney will not look particularly good in that exchange. He’ll continue to oppose something that, to the casual eye, looks like he not only supported, but enacted as governor.

      We political observer types understand well the marked difference between federal and state enaction of legislation. Even on that count, while it may be Constitutional for a state to enact Romneycare type legislation, I’m pretty sure I don’t want 50 Romneycares, or even 10.

      Bottom line is that the intial impulse for any observer is to find Romney’s push for repeal as non-credible due to Romneycare. Due to a variety of factors – some noble (work, family, etc.), some not as noble (apathy) – many voters may be turned away by the negative optics of it all – i.e. another politician appearing to adopt one position, even when it appears to go directly against a position he once enacted and has defended even in the same campaign.

      • ddawg

        In referencing noble and non-noble factors in the last paragraph in my post just above, I was pointing towards reasons why some may not delve deeper to fully understand the nuances of how Romney’s position is different from Obama’s.

  • winning2012

    Just to refresh your memory Senator, you endorsed Mitt Romney for President AFTER he signed into law his health care plan:

    So are you lying now about Romney not being a conservative, or were you lying 4 years ago?

    Get out of the race, you’re starting to embarrass yourself.

    • jamesm

      Okay I was and idiot for looking deeper. Fool me once…

    • streiff

      do this low rent ill-bred in-bred crap again and you’re gone.

      • habeumnominee

        He’s just pointing out Senator Santorum’s inconsistencies.

        Aren’t we trying to prevent a flip-flopper from becoming the nominee?

        • JX12

          If you feel you have to approach it from a “pick your poison” point of view, then fine. But either Romney or Santorum will be the nominee.

    • buster93

      Yes once again Rick Perry a great Governor from Texas. I wish I could have seen the Dinner in Washington Saturday with the Press.
      Once again he has a true proven record. I have to keep on reminding myself he dropped out Jan 19th.
      God Bless USA

      • habeumnominee

        I’m ready to elect a Republican to be the next president.

        I think that Romney’s got it locked up at this point.

        I’m very excited. I’m even “jazzed” about it.

        • jamesm

          your fellow Romneyites will rub elbows with you..all five of them.At least you guys can caucus and share a six pack together

          Just kidding

          But seriously, from Perry to Romney?

    • traversecityconservative

      I voted for McCain. So what?

    • Lynn Otting

      is talking about the op ed article that Romney wrote about using RomneyCare as the blueprint for ObamaCare.

  • jamesm

    out of healthcare. Romney believes in government involvement. People complain about “Big government” but some are willing to vote for Romney. Romney encouraging big government at the state level is and intrusion.

    • Flagstaff

      I missed the Santorum announcement where he vows to repeal Medicare and Medicaid. He’ll have to do that if he wants to “get the government out of health care.”

      • jamesm

        for Medicare. Along with repealing Obamneycare I think that there is prima facie case that he wants government out of healthcare. Romney? LOL.

  • vastrightwingconspiracy

    …for the Senator.

    Full disclosure, I’m a Romney supporter. That being said, I would like to ask a couple of questions pertaining, not necessarily to the substance of your position, but rather to the logic of your argument.

    You state that “The 2012 election is about one central philosophic point: How big of a federal government do we want and is that where the solutions lie to the challenges that face America?”

    Yet, you also stated “I am not a libertarian. and I fight very strongly against the libertarian influence within the Republican party and the Conservative movement.”

    How do you reconcile those two statements, given your objection to Obamacare is that it is big government. Your statements and past behavior indicates that you are a proponent of big government, which leads me to my next question.

    Why was Romneycare considered “conservative” legislation prior to Obamacare, but now it is no longer “conservative?” You supported him in 2008 well after Romneycare was in effect, calling him “conservative.” Why the mushy standards?

    Lastly, going by your logic, and I have heard this a number of times, as to why Romney would be “disqualified” from the Obamacare debate, wouldn’t that disqualify you from criticizing the President on funding Planned Parenthood, deficit spending, raising the debt ceiling, pro-union legislation and the ability to pick and choose winners and losers in the tax-code?

    It seems to me the only thing left to discuss is gun control…that is, if we go by your logic.

    Let me be frank with you. Constitutionality aside, the worst thing about Obamacare is that it is an economic disaster, not the mandate. All the mandate does is try to get everyone to pitch in something because it’s a “product” that we all use at one point. The attempt, and it is a poor attempt, is to lower the cost of the people who are already paying in. No-one would complain if there was a mandate to purchase healthcare and it somehow lowered everyone’s expenses.

    Consequently, Romney is not disqualified from the discussion based on an economic argument, which in fact, is the most important argument regarding Obamacare.

    Will you repeal federal laws requiring auto manufacturers to install safety equipment in cars? Those costs are all passed on to the consumer and consequently, the Feds are making us purchase those as well. I don’t see any conservatives speaking out against those mandates.

    • garfieldjl

      Gingrich and Santorum both are adamently saying that it is unconstitutional while Romney isn’t.

      • vastrightwingconspiracy

        …Gingrich supported the mandate.

        Do you know anyone in this country who hasn’t used “health care?”

        Hypothetical – if you are paying for something that everyone uses, and you have to continually pay more rise because of the people who don’t pay, do you object to the government stepping in and telling the free-riders to pay? I wouldn’t, unless that intervention ended up costing me more money or limiting my options, which is what Obamacare does.

        I don’t oppose the mandate to purchase insurance – I oppose the economic impact of the policy.

        The mandate is one of the least bad things about Obamacare.

        • demsaresatanic

          from a conservative position, not a knee-jerk one which is so common from the not-Romneys.

          You are imprecise in labeling the position Gingrich took in the past as a “mandate” in my view, as that term fails to distinguish mandatory purchase of insurance from proof of financial responsibility; Gingrich provided for a bond option,which is consistent with the conservative principle of individual responsibility. However, you are correct that it is irresponsible to simply try to ignore free-riders.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …I do remember Newt talking about the bond option, although most people would not be able to afford it.

          • hayekwasright

            Don’t take the bait from the left and equate health care and health insurance. It is quite reasonable and probably far more common than many of you might imagine for someone to not purchase health insurance and yet pay for the goods and services they receive from health care professionals. In fact, some health care professionals have discovered that they can provide health care at a more affordable rate with a business model that does not involve insurance companies and the added overhead they require. When we accept the false premise that everyone needs health insurance, we can be led down almost any path.
            Food is something that everyone uses, much more clearly even than health care, much less health insurance. Requiring people to buy food insurance or some package deal on their future food needs is absurd, as is the mandate under discussion here if we are willing to look at is realistically.
            As for free riders, there are currently people who take food without paying for it too, both honorably and dishonorably. In grocery stores they are called shoplifters and some jurisdictions still prosecute them. And, yes they increase the prices for all of us, but enforcement of the law limits those costs. At soup kitchens, churches, and other charitable organizations they are called “those we are able to help”. I see these as completely parallel and a good working model for what we should be doing with health care.

          • JSobieski

            I would say that the Romneycare was a move in a conservative direction.

            However, adding a mandate in the context of the one of the most heavily regulated state health insurance markets was a bad move . . . and a non-conservative move.

            People do make too much out of mandates. A mandate for relatively minimal coverage requirements is different than a mandate with relatively expansive coverage requirements.

            The requirements are what matter most, but Romneycare fails on that basis as well.

        • morrigan

          The numbers I’ve seen indicate the bulk of the free riders are illegal aliens. If that is in fact the case then one solution to what is claimed to be a “health-care” problem would be to encourage these individuals to leave and return to their own countries.

          http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/02/02/myths-of-the-free-rider-health-care-problem/

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …or make them pony up the dough.

      • vastrightwingconspiracy

        …is indeed a compelling reason to find something unconstitutional.

      • morrigan

        >”Gingrich and Santorum both are adamently saying that it is unconstitutional while Romney isn

        • garfieldjl

          While there are powers a State has that the Feds do not have, there are limitations on what a state can and cannot do as well, and I don’t just mean through the State Constitutions.

          An individual mandate is either constitutional or it is unconstitutional, one cannot argue that states can do it but Feds can’t.

          • acat

            The States very well can do this… far as I know nobody’s sued the State of Massachusetts over Romneycare yet… and that’s in part because citizens have a couple more “votes” – they can vote with their feet and *leave*, eh?

            There is, however, a clear statement in the Constitution that any powers not specifically enumerated and granted to the Fed belong to the States. The Fed clearly does not have an enumerated power to require the purchase of anything, else why did they sell war bonds during WWII?

            Therefore, it *is* constitutional – or at least, an undecided bit of law – for Massachusetts to do this.

            The problem – as you ably demonstrated garfield’, is that Joe Sixpack doesn’t remember enough from a high school civics course to make the distinction.

            Mew

          • garfieldjl

            The Constitution is the Supreme law of the land, if the individual mandate in Obamacare is considered unconstitutional, then Romneycare could be argued to be unconstitutional.

            That’s why Roe v. Wade overturned so many state laws concerning abortions.

            There are plenty of ways to deal with free-riders without resorting to an individual mandate.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …addresses the real issue.

            How?

          • garfieldjl

            Make it so while they don’t have to pay for any pre-existing conditions for let’s say 5 years after the person first became a policy holder whom is insured by that company.

            If the person was on their parent’s insurance, that insurance company gets the bill for 5 years instead of the new insurance company.

            Would make it so insurance companies don’t get stuck holding the bag.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …they will still go to get emergency care for the condition and someone has to pay for that.

            Those costs are passed onto the people who actually pay for health care, like you or me. If I’m a hospital and I have 3 out of every 10 patients that won’t pay their bill, I split the cost of those 3 people and add it to the bill of the other 7.

            If I’m the other 7, i’m saying, why in the heck can’t the 3 pay at least something?!

          • JSobieski

            a future change of health status (i.e. against being encumbered with a change of medical status that would constitute a pre-existing condition)

          • rabun1016

            Insurance companies will make sure someone else is always holding the bag. Don’t worry about them. The more premium they take in, the larger their cut. They have no incentive to reduce costs since I understand states approve their rates based on actuarial costs plus a percentage admin fee.

          • lapert

            Explain how if the mandate is unconstitutional because it constitutes an unconstitutional tax, because it isn’t an authority granted to the federal government under the commerce or necessary and proper clauses that would impede a state government from doing the same thing?

            Not all restrictions the constitution places on the federal government apply to state governments.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …sorry, wrong again.

            Roe v. Wade was about govt infringing on right to privacy.

            The Obamacare mandate debate is a “scope of authority” argument.

          • morrigan

            >”That

          • acat

            Roe v. Wade is a terrible example, from a conservative point of view, to use… we would be worse off within a decade if Obamacare is decided similarly.

            Mew

          • sulmak

            Article 1 Section. 10.

            No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

            No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

            No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

            Article 4 Section. 4.

            The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

            Plus the fourteenth amendment and the amendments regulating who can vote. Maybe I missed a few clauses or so feel free to respond with those.

            You have to remember the state governments, unlike the federal government, were not created by the constitution and thus their powers were not created by it, though some were explicitly taken away by it, and others given concurrently to the federal which has supremacy in matters where their concurrent powers conflict.

            That said, constitutionality aside, states rights certainly isn’t an argument that Romneycare was a good idea, just that it might be legal.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …on the mandate.

            AND you’re incorrect on your argument.

            Who cares if there’s a mandate?! There’s a mandate buried in every law on the books.

            The real problem with Obamacare is it is terrible economic policy. You bankrupt a country to get coverage for 15 million people. That’s the real argument to be made.

          • JSobieski

            The US Constitution places few limits on states, and this issue is state constitution specific. Just saying things about constitutionality without any specifics to back it up is what libs do

          • ddawg

            I would agree that states can do things the federal government cannot, but from a purely jurisprudence standpoint, how did we get to where we are re: religious liberty?

            The First Amendment clearly addresses only the federal Congress, not the states. On its face, this would suggest that states are free to have established churches, infringe on religious liberty, etc. However, would anyone argue that if a state passed legislation establishing a particular religion for that state, then there wouldn’t be Constitutional challenges to that legislation?

            A secondary and related question: Why would a Rick Perry have any reason to run as a states’ rights guy if states’ rights hadn’t been infringed upon grievously over time, the Constitution notwithstanding?

            My point being that, even though we may rightly argue the Constitutional arguments as they should be, that doesn’t mean they will be applied as they should be.

            Thus, a declaration of Obamacare as Constitutional might well end up as a great encouragement to the states to go further with mandates and such, and some may begin to argue that Obamacare’s Constitutionality requires a Constitutional “right to healthcare.”

            Of course, we will see these arguments as bogus, but that hasn’t stopped other similar arguments from becoming the law of the land.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Hint… the Constitution is the document that defines how the “federal” government operates. Kitty is correct about enumerated powers.

          • garfieldjl

            Seriously, I’ve taken a Constitutional History class.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …these are two different arguments.

            The constitutionality argument for Obamacare is whether the government is acting ultra vires of its authority, not whether it is infringing on a right articulated in the constitution.

          • JSobieski

            In contrast, only the federal government is limited to the enumerated powers set forth in the U.S Constitution.

            The 2nd Amendment is not an affirmative right. It is a negative right—-a right that prohibits government from stopping you from having a gun, just as the 1st Amendment is also a negative right.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …thanks for the clarity?

          • lapert

            You should pay closer attention to the discussion on the 14th amendment and incorporation – what it applies to and what it doesn’t – this time.

          • garfieldjl

            This is about whether or not Government has the right to compel someone to enter into a contract with a business simply because that person is breathing.

          • JSobieski

            and the argument you are trying to articulate has nothing to do with an individual right—it has to do with the doctrine of enumerated powers.

            You should skip Constitutional History and take a case in basic logic.

            Just because A means B doesn’t mean that B means A.

          • lapert

            You need to pay closer attention next time to what parts of the US Constitution extend to the states via the 14th amendment and which don’t.

            Here is a hint, all the arguments against the constitutionality of the individual mandate do not.

          • JSobieski

            The gun bans were unconstitutional because of the 2nd amendment–an amendment that applies to the federal government, state governments, and local governments.

            Nothing in the case against Obamacare is based on the bill of rights.

            Nothing in the case against Obamacare is based on a U.S. Constitution provision that would also apply to the states.

            If Romneycare is unconstitutional, it is because of something in the Mass. State Constitution. Nothing in the U.S. Constitution makes Romneycare unconstitutional.

            Nothing.

          • garfieldjl

            This is about the ability to regulate vs. the power to compel someone into a contractural agreement against their will.

            States have the power to regulate intrastate commerce (meaning commerce within that particular state), if Obamacare’s individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional for the reason that I suspect it’s going to be, then Romneycare’s individual mandate is effectively unconstitutional for the same reason.

            Romneycare’s individual mandate goes beyond regulating intrastate commerce, it forces people to enter into contractural agreements simply because they exist.

            There would be grounds to challenge Romneycare’s constitutionality if the individual mandate is ruled unconstitional in Obamacare.

          • JSobieski

            The arguments against Obamacare are not based on the Bill of Rights, the 14th Amendment. etc.

            The argument against the mandate is not that it violates some type of individual right. The argument against Obamacare is that it is a use of government power that is not justified by any of the enumerated powers in the U.S. Constitution.

            You can’t just repeat the word constitution generically and then give a conclusion . . . unless you are a leftist.

            The specifics matter. Otherwise, the Constitution would be a one-word document that said “Constitution”

          • garfieldjl

            There is more than one way to approach the authority argument.

          • JSobieski

            You argue in total generalizations, which is why your arguments are meaningless.

          • garfieldjl

            You know how some contracts are automatically null and void. If someone was forced to enter into the contract under duress (meaning threat of bodily harm for example), if the contract involves committing an illegal act, etc.

            If the individual mandate is Constitutional because of the commerce clause, that means you essentially property of the Government, because they can force you into a contract against your will simply because you exist.
            Last I checked there is the 13th amendment .

            [quote]Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
            Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[/quote]
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#cite_note-1

            Then we have: United States v. Kozminski – 487 U.S. 931 (1988)
            http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/487/931/

            So what we have is congress saying we have to enter into a contract against or face a legal penalty, simply because we exist.

            If the individual mandate is a penalty, it is arguably unconstitional under the 13th Amendment of the United States, which therefore means it would also be an overreach of Congressional power because this wouldn’t be allowed under the commerce clause because it violates the 13th Amendment.

            Also because one can argue that the individual mandate violates the 13th amendment, that means it also violates the 14th amendment by default.

          • JSobieski

            You argue constitutional law like a lib.

          • garfieldjl

            It violates the 13th and 14th amendments therefore the commerce clause does not give congress the power to force this on the people.

            You’re not getting this, using the threat of legal action, or threat of physical force to coerce someone into entering into a contract violates the 13th and 14th amendments (why they didn’t also throw the 13th amendment into the mix, I have no idea but the argument is there).

            There is legal precident as I’ve pointed out that makes these kinds of contracts illegal.

            You can approach the “this isn’t covered in the Commerce Clause” in multiple ways.

            By throwing in the fact the commerce clause doesn’t authorize congress to force people to participate in commerce while throwing the 13th and 14th amendments in play, one can present multiple arguments as to why Obamacare’s individual mandate is unconstitutional.

            The person being forced into the contract under Obamacare, didn’t choose to participate in commerce. So this contract is being forced on them for no other reason than they simply exist.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            argument is some ways. I do think that the Obamacare mandate is a violation of Liberty per se quite independent of the Commerce Clause because Congress is only authorized to exercise its enumerated powers and clearly forcing someone to enter into a “contract” with another party is not one of the enumerated powers.

          • aesthete

            Of course, it got thrown out the window as so much debris with Wickard, and was solidified as SC opinion with Gonzalez v Raich and others.

            Which is one of many reasons that I despise New Deal-era politics and court packing.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            More later

          • garfieldjl

            United States v. Kozminski

          • aesthete

            The case hinges on whether or not subjecting mentally retarded folks to a condition where it was either backbreaking labor apart from the rest of society for long hours, or reinstitutionalization, was “involuntary servitude”. The “threatened or actual state-imposed coercion” in question was reinstitutionalization without cause — basically, reinstitutionalization is akin to imprisonment in this example.

            Threat of imprisonment (reinstitutionalization) + backbreaking labor + isolation + private interest = involuntary servitude

            None of this has to do with the relationship between the state and the individual vis a vis involuntary contracts.

          • aesthete

            Imagine a set: Constitutionality. Objects do not fall inside the “Constitutional” set if they fail any Constitutional test.

            Now imagine two more, non-overlapping sets.

            Involuntary contracts enacted by a state legislature and signed into law by the executive constitute one set — let’s call it “legislation”.

            Involuntary contracts which fall outside of the above constitute another set. Let’s call this set “involuntary”.

            All objects fail the 14th’s involuntary contracts clause iff they fall into the last set — there is no overlap between the last set, and the Constitutional set. Objects in the “legislation” set have some overlap with set “Constitutional”, but are not entirely within the set “Constitutional”. In any case, they do not fail the 14th’s involuntary contracts clause.

          • lapert

            Besides dealing in vague generalities that have no meaning, even the general construct here is wrong. A specific law could be prohibited under say the second amendment but still be terrain that the federal government is permitted to regulate under the commerce clause.

          • JSobieski

            There are specific rights that could be collectively characterized as protecting individual liberty.

            None of those rights have been raised in the litigation against Obamacare, and thus the case against Obamacare would be irrelevant against Romneycare.

            The U.S. Constituition is a piece of paper with words and sentences. You should read them. Just saying stuff like “indiviudal liberty” isn’t not a constitutional argument.

            If you want to argue law, make a legal argue and cite a specific part of the Constitution or a specific doctrine. Throwing out words like “individual liberty” is neither.

          • garfieldjl

            We can argue it is a violation of the 13th amendment and the 14th amendment.

            Threat of legal penalty for choosing not to enter into a contract is a violation of the 13th amendment.

            Not talking about when you get auto insurance, because you choose to buy a car and thus are participating in commerce that you initiated. You made the choice to buy the car, and thus you have to get auto insurance because you chose to get the car.

            How is simply existing a voluntary act? You are being forced into doing something simply because you were born, simply because you exist. That’s why the 13th Amendment can be thrown into this.

            Forcing someone into a contract with the threat of a legal penalty simply because the person exists, violates the 13th amendment.

          • aesthete

            Two problems with that:

            1) It hasn’t been used in ~100 years.

            2) At the time of the ruling, it was considered highly controversial and activist.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            Creating federal common law under the 9th Amendment and I do find that problematic. States do have Much greater latitude in these areas. I think the better argument is that to regulate does not reasonably include coercing one to engage in commerce. The right to regulate should only apply to already existing commerce.

          • garfieldjl

            United States v. Kozminski, 487 U.S. 931 (1988)

            Look it up, that’s certainly more recent than 100 years ago.

          • JSobieski

            So a victory over Obamacare would not be based on those arguments

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            and that would be to distinguish the case from Wickard and let it go at that.

          • littlehouse18

            I would suggest that the 10th Amendment at least points to such a thing, although modified by the rights of the states.

            What is certain is that the specific rights of citizens listed in the Constitution are not our only rights. And, as is often stated, the idea behind the Constitution, the ‘why’, lies in the Declaration.

          • Dave_A

            And most of the cases ‘inventing’ rights so far have been very, very bad (Roe/Griswald, for example)….

            Yes, there’s the 9th Ammendment, but fortunately for those of us with even less trust in humanity than Alexander Hamilton, the Supreme Court has ruled it confers ‘no federally enforceable rights’…

            The only workable solution, in today’s litigious society, is that if it’s not enumerated, it’s not a right until someone passes a law saying otherwise.

          • JSobieski

            (1) rights specifically granted to individual persons pursuant to Bill of Rights, 13th Amend, 14th Amend, 15th Amend, etc.

            (2) rights of states/limits on federal power. States may or may not stick up for their citizens.

            There is no such thing as a generic “liberty right”

            If people want to go the way that leftists have gone with the Constitution, they have a right to want what they want. However, it is a recipe for intrusive government.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            You’re making a fool of yourself.

          • aesthete

            would be if the court suddenly started interpreting the14th as providing a right to contract, and incorporated it among the states a la Lochner — an interpretation as unlikely to happen as it is fallacious.

            States are governed by their constitutions; the federal government provides the police power to the states to do with as they will.

          • Scope

            “States are governed by their constitutions; the federal government provides the police power to the states to do with as they will.”

            Please explain your argument by using the term “police powers.” Somehow I believe that using the term “police powers” is a negative conotation even down to the states. And, how does the federal government assign “police powers”?

          • garfieldjl

            My argument is there is a case concerning individual rights.

            However the argument I’m presenting also has to do with the commerce clause or if the Feds overreached.

            The supreme court could actually rule on both it violating people’s individual liberty, and it being an overreach because the commerce clause doesn’t give Congress the ability to punish people for choosing not participating in commerce.

            The Supreme Court is primarily focusing on the Commerce clause, but their ruling can have both the individual liberty reason and the congress overstepping their bounds reason.

            The individual liberty argument that I’m pointing out would mean that congress overreached by default. The two arguments can be used to support each other. The lawyer arguing that Obamacare is unconstitutional probably will use the individual liberty argument as to the individual mandate oversteps congressional authority.

            If you guys don’t understand how what I post ties into something, instead of making total fools of yourselves by bashing me, you should simply ask me how it ties in. But hey if you want to make fools of yourselves go ahead and knock yourselves out.

          • JSobieski

            Making an argument based on some type of ephemeral “liberty” claim is what leftists do.

            Identify what aspect of the US Constitution being used to challenge Obamacare would even apply to Romneycare, or admit you just through words like “liberty” and “constitution” out there without any meaning?

          • aesthete

            “the commerce clause doesn

          • JSobieski

            and to support generic reasoning like “individual liberty” as protected in the US Constitution.

            The US Constitution protects certain things that could be classified collectively as individual liberty, but there is no generalized protection for “individual liberty”—which is where the guy keeps getting wrapped around the tree

          • garfieldjl

            [quote]

          • morrigan

            I’m telling you that the people of Massachusetts ARE the state of Massachusetts, and that that have a republican form of government, which means that they pass any laws for themselves they wish (provided that said laws do not violate the MA or US constitutions)

            If the people of Massachusetts decide they do not care for their healthcare law, they are free to change it themselves.

            That is the conservative position, not your desire for an activist Supreme court which imagines that its job is stand up for an open-ended an undefined “individual liberty”.

          • acat

            A citizen of Massachusetts has the option of becoming a citizen of New Hampshire to escape Romneycare. (and if enough of ‘em decide to, it’ll crash the State, eh?)

            Go forth and look up what “Laboratories of Democracy” looks like.

            Mew

          • littlehouse18

            In theory you are correct. But …

            What if the citizen is too infirm to move? What if they have lived there their whole life, as have generations of their family? What if they cannot afford to move? Perhaps they cannot sell their home. What if they have built up a business with employees who also depend on them? The possibilities are many. Why should some American citizens ( in your example, NH residents) be more free than other US citizens?

            Tough luck?

          • aesthete

            to oblige action on the part of the citizenry. I’ve got plenty of social contract theory and interpretation of the 14th upon passage that will back me up on this point. MA is governed by its own constitution — a contract, if you will, between the people of MA and its government. This is how all such issues are determined on a legal plane — actions which would count as kidnapping, or slavery, on the part of private interests are something else when the state does it.

            For that matter, for the purposes of citizenship, there are some areas where the federal government can compel action from inaction based on its social contract (Constitution) — the draft, for example.

            As a libertarianish guy, I think social contract theory is right up there with divine right of kings as far as morality and foundational principles go. As far as legal principles are concerned, it’s the law of the land — and really, your interpretation of the 14th would, taken to its rational conclusion, prevent anything but purely voluntary government (i.e. anarchy), as government is constituted on the basis of force and involuntary contract.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            And, “I’ve taken a Constitutional History class.” You either didn’t learn anything – and I took a “Music fundamentals” class and still can’t read music – or more probably, weren’t taught anything relevant to anything.

            You’ve just produce the most irrelevant argument I’ve ever seen. VRWC pointed out the error of your ways so I won’t beat the dead horse.

            Bottom line, First Rule of Holes.

          • garfieldjl

            Also if you don’t understand something, you should ask not start insulting people.

          • vastrightwingconspiracy

            …these other guys are smarter than me so let me see if I can explain it how I see it.

            Let’s use the example of gun ownership that you put forward earlier. The constitution says we can own guns. Consequently, the Feds, States, Municipalities, etc. Can’t take them away from us. That right is found in the constitution.

            Obamacare, on the other hand, is like a lifeguard issuing parking tickets. They don’t have the authority to do so. It’s not whether you have a right to not get a parking ticket, it’s the fact that a lifeguard is not authorized to give parking tickets.

            There is no consitutional ban on mandates that would prevent States, Municipalities from implementing them. It’s just that the constitution doesn’t authorize the Feds to implement them – like the lifeguard handing out parking tickets.

          • garfieldjl

            Okay to break this down, one needs to look at the definition of a contract.
            [quote]
            con

          • Scope

            or pay a penalty when you are registering your vehicle? yes they do. Do states have the right to force you to wear a seat belt, or get a ticket for not doing do? yes they do. Does the federal government have the right to enforse you to buy auto insurance, or to wear a seal belt? no they don’t. That’s the difference.

          • garfieldjl

            Again, you choose to buy a car, if you didn’t buy the car you wouldn’t have had to get the insurance for a car that you don’t even have.

          • JSobieski

            In your view, that is slavery?

          • Scope

            to pass Romneycare type legislation. Go back to the Huckabee debate with the 3 state Atty’s Gen. They quizzed Romney on his position as to his healthcare passage in Mass. Somehow he convinced at least Fla. Pam Bondi that it was only something he did as a state’s right. She somehow was convinced that it was not something he would impose within the federal government. That was despite his articles where he wrote that it would be goof for the rest of the country. He lied through his teeth.

            Take DOMA for arguments sake. DOMA has never passed the Congress, it is not the rule of the land. Most all of the individual states have put the same sex marriage up to a vote with that states voters. In the majority of states, it was voted as not to be accepted by that state’s constitution. In some states the legislature passed same sex marriage laws, not the residents. In CA, the voters voted against same sex marriage, and the will of the voters was overturned by a lawsuit brought, and the judge himself ruled against the ban. The federal government has had no say in the various states same sex marriage decisions. IOW, the states individually get to make their own rules, so to speak.

            Federalism means that states get to adopt their own constitutions, and they get to set their own rules within paramaters. Mass. was absolutely allowed to “mandate” that the residents have health insurance. It may be a personal freedom thing to you, but, if you don’t like Romneycare, you are free to move to another state. You are not compelled to buy Romneycare, just by stint of moving to another state. Obamacare does not allow you to move to another state to avoid being told that you must purchase something, you are locked in at the federal level no matter where you live. That is federalism, which I hope the SC agrees has been violated. If I don’t agree with same sex marriage laws in Mass., I can move to VA which has decided by voter majority that it is not allowed. States right, individual rights, and federalism has been violated by the passage of Obamacare. Kapish?

          • garfieldjl

            Unless you’re saying Massachusetts has the right to force you into a same sex marriage with someone, your “same sex marriage” marriage arguement doesn’t fly. I don’t think the nutty libs in that state are quite that crazy, they’d have a revolt.

            Anyways the sticking point you’re missing is that they are forcing someone to do something simply because they are alive. Their same sex marriage law doesn’t force you into marrying someone of the same gender under threat of legal penalty, that’s why the Individual mandate in Romneycare can be considered unconstitutional if Obamacare’s individual mandate gets tossed.

          • aesthete

            that has ever been in existence.

            Did you sign something that let government take 22% of your earnings every year, or that lets them put you in a uniform and ship you off to fight in North Africa if they decide that’s what they want to do? I didn’t… yet here we are. Many localities in the early US required that all albe-bodied men purchase and own a musket as a condition of residence. Again, the draft, levying armies, and basic functions of citizenship apply even in the event of inaction, and always have. That’s not how I want it to be, but it is how it has been since forever.

            My guess is that forcing people into same-sex marriage would be a freedom of association/freedom of religion issue more than anything else. (Freedom of association is another one that lots of conservative activists try to construe as a right to contract, but it has never been incorporated or interpreted as such, as far as I know.)

            You can argue that RomneyCare doesn’t conform to the MA Constitution — you might even have a good argument.

            The US Constitution? Not so much.

          • Scope

            and I mean the entire point of federalism. First off, no state can force you inmto a same sex marriage. I know you really didn’t even mean that.

            The entire point of federalism is that if you don’t like the laws that one state passes, you have an escape hatch. You can move to another state that hasn’t passed that law. Remember what powers that are not relegated to the federal government, are left to the various states, and the individuals. The states that have passed laws against same sex marriage have passed those laws by the will of the people. The states that have instituted same sex marriage as passed by their legislators, need to pass better constitutional legislators. CA, whose residents voters said no to same sex marriage, had only to take the case to a liberal, and gay judge, and he overturned the people’s wish’s, no surprise there in CA.

            The states can do pretty much what they choose, and if you don’t like the laws passed there, you can move to another state. Obamacare forces that every living human being, that has the last breath of life in them, must just by their existence on earth buy health insurance. PEOPLE WHO DON”T LIKE ROMNEYCARE CAN MOVE OUT OF MASS, AND THEY ARE NO LONGER OBLIGATED BY THAT STATE LAW.

          • littlehouse18

            or concentration camps, or anything contrary to the Constitution.
            Just clarifying …

          • lapert

            Not all of the constitution applies to the states, not even all of the bill of rights is incorporated against the states. For example, the right to a trial by jury from the seventh amendment is not applicable on teh states despite being contrary to the Constitution.

            Just clarifying…

          • JSobieski

            13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.

            There is also the 5th Amendment.

            There are however no “generic rights”

            If the Constitution stops having any relationship to the words in the Constitution, then we have succumbed to how leftists interpret the Constitution

          • Scope

            and it is a big one. If states didn’t accept federal dollars for particular programs, like medicaid, they would be beholden to the federal government rules that come with those monies given back to the states. Every worker in this country who is employed pays taxes to the federal government. Another part of this court case has to do with medicaid monies. Right now, the state’s are broke big time because of the state government employees pensions. If that problem could be resolved, like making those people contribute to their own pensions, much more than 3-5% states would have much much more money to contribute to their medicad safety net programs, and wouldn’t be so dependent on the feds for their money. They could then dictate their own rules for medicaid, paid for by the states, without federal government rules. Texas recently said they would not pay for abortions with medicaid money, but of course even Texas takes federal government monies, and are now being sued by the federal dictator.

  • tea4me

    This has been and always will be my primary issue in this campaign…and why I could under no circumstance support Romney in the primary

    • habeumnominee

      I’m going to put a yard sign in front of my house as soon as he picks a running-mate.

      I could see Tom Coburn or Marco Rubio as the perfect antidote to 4 years of Obama/Biden.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    You were in the Senate for 12 years, yet I don’t remember you ever doing anything to fix the problems with healthcare back then. There was a period of time when Republicans controlled the Senate, House, and White House, yet nothing was doing to remove barriers to insurance (e.g. purchase across state lines). Had this been done, healthcare costs would’ve been kept down due to competition and much of the reasoning for Obamacare wouldn’t have been there.

    It’s one thing to say something is wrong. It’s quite another to promote other alternatives, especially when you already missed an opportunity.

    • habeumnominee

      Senator Santorum talks a great game but he’s never been a policy man. He’s never been much of a leader, either.

      We can’t have anymore jelly-spined leadership like what we have in the White House today.

      We need Romney in there. Like, yesterday.

      • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

        He’s a different part of the problem. But yeah, we will end up with Romney as the candidate this time.

      • cleevn

        ddawg said: “Senator Santorum, while in office, was an advocate for free-market approaches in healthcare. He advocated for and helped enact Health Savings Accounts.

        We could ask the same question of Romney, and the answer would be RomneyCare.”

        I will add that “Mandate Mitt,” “Etch-A-Scetch Romney,” “Mittens,” “Coward,” “Sock in the wind Mitt,” are only a portion of a the tags that have been attached to Mitt Romney. The theme that is consistent is that Romney is a spineless, pandering, manipulative, smear merchant, and coward who employees the same dirty political tactics that BHO does. Feigning innocence and justifying why it is okay to let his surrogates lie about and smear another candidate, along with never taking responsibility for helping create that Freedom stealing monster, Obamacare, ought to be enough to want to adhere to the, “ABR,” “Anyone But Romney,” meme.
        Romney’s behavior is consistent with being not trust worthy. Romney can’t be trusted not to change positions on important issues, and can’t be trusted to make Conservative choices.
        We already have a POTUS that lies and serves himself first at our expense.
        Isn’t Romney’s pandering the same as telling lies to get elected? Do we really want, “More of the same?” An “Obama lite?”

    • ddawg

      Senator Santorum, while in office, was an advocate for free-market approaches in healthcare. He advocated for and helped enact Health Savings Accounts.

      We could ask the same question of Romney, and the answer would be Romneycare.

      • aesthete

        *In the context* of the largest entitlements expansion since the Great Society, and largely not designed by himself.

        That’s like bragging about how your policy to socialize the farms was a good example of agricultural policy, because you allowed co-ops to trade excess supply with one another.

  • newsscooper

    ObamaCare has a date with the United States Supreme Court this week, on its 2nd Anniversary of its signing. Republican US Senate candidate for the state of Pennsylvania, Sam Rohrer, is conducting a National Talk Show information campaign to draw attention to the foibles of the Affordable Care Act (a.k.a.

  • celador2

    What punch that oped has, beautiful!

    Whatever the high court decides let us embrace freedom and REPEAL OBAMACARE no matter how long it takes nor how much it may cost.
    Tyranical heath care need not be inevitable anymore than was involuntary servitude.
    For starters,

    REPEAL OBAMA
    2012

  • celador2

    When the Pelosi House passed ACA it was without the three day notice of posting online. We in the public had no idea what was in it. The bill’s confusion and secrecy went on and on. ACA is a Dem designed and signed act and as such does not represent the general will nor common good of the people.

    Several states have nullified it in referenda and do not cooperate with health exchanges. 26 states a majority are in court today to repeal ACA. Medicaid is not a side issue at all. ACA forces states to follow its mandates too under ACA. States are treated as vassals to a powerful overlord with ACA.

    ACA wipes out federalism as Bill OReilly points out.

    We need reform as costs are high for sure but the top down centralized panel model as is ACA is not the way to go. Competition eliminates waste. ACA panels have no competition.

    ACA does not fit the innovative explorative nature of American cutting edge greatness.

  • Marcus_Traianus

    is the divisive, populist appealing tone of your campaign sir.

    That is the hallmark of Mr. Obama, the Democrats and OWS. It is not something most folks on this side of the aisle find pleasing or appealing.

  • radicalrighty

    I hope it ends very soon.

  • cleevn

    because of RomneyCare alone. Besides that though, Romney’s behavior as a candidate tells me all I need to know about how he will be as a POTUS. His lying and condoning the smears and lies of his surrogates is exactly how BHO behaves. And once BHO got elected, he turned America upside down to fit his ideology. Do we really want someone who will say anything to get elected, then go against the American people when we clearly say, “No,” to something, like we clearly said, “No,” with ObamaCare?
    Romney behaves just like one of his spokes people said. Like an Etch A Scetch. Romney will hit the re-set if he is the nominee. The Romney we are seeing now will change to fit HIS needs in the general election. Then, as POTUS, he will change to fit HIS needs, not what we want.
    I can just see Romney cowering under the Oval Office desk in fear of being torn apart from all the different directions he will be pulled because he has no core, no firm foundation to stand on. The demands will be too great for him. Romney seems to have a multiple personality disorder. If Mitt Romney is the GOP nominee, which Mitt Romney will be running against BHO? It really doesn’t matter which Mitt Romney come out in the general election because BHO will knock Romney out in the first debate! I can see Romney having to explain why he has changed positions just for political gains on just about every important issue. Will the real Mitt Romney please stand up? Yes, Romney will get hammered in the first debate and BHO will walk away with another 4 years.

    How can Romney possibly beat BHO when Romney has held, (and probably still holds), many of the same policy positions that BHO holds?

    We need someone who has a firm foundation to stand on and someone with an unwavering set of core beliefs on major issues, like Obamacare. We need a person who doesn’t flop around pandering to the electorate just to get the job.

    We already know that what we get when we elect a pandering politician is nothing we want. A pandering politician is only in the game of politics for his/her own gains, not to serve the people. It is this same abusive and manipulative behavior that Romney exhibits, that permeates the BHO Oval Office, that we want to get rid of, and don’t need anymore of.

  • laszlo

    Senator, you had my vote in IL. You wowed them in Arlington where you packed the house with perhaps 2500 cheering attendees. To win, you need to keep your cool, keep pressing the balanced message in the campaign card your team handed out in IL. Job creation, especially in the Rust Belt states, via your tax reforms. Repeal Obamacare, and the points yu shared here. Control the federal deficit, and return to a balanced budget; here is where Speaker Gingrich has articulated an energy plan that voters could relate to if you adopted the same talking points. Yes, faithful social conservative! Hit them all in as bumper sticker a fashion as you can, and you can become the nominee.

    Fail to cut through the media and establishment noise, fail to connect with the Iowa winning mix, and you will have to think next time.

    We need you now. Please tweak your delivery, so you will win.

  • Seedyrom

    thrown around lately. Use it Senator because it works and the media love catch phrases. Mitt Romney isn’t really conservative, I doubt he even likes socializing outside his little group of friends. Notice how he has fund raisers in New York City and California, what about Red State fund raisers? Last time I checked Texas and OK had lots of millionaires. That’s where real conservative money is as are the many other red states.

  • samcoastie

    dosn’t seem to do what Santorum says it does, namely it doesn’t encourage Obama to enact a federal individual mandate.

    “And, beyond that, Mitt Romney penned an Op-Ed in 2009 for USA Today, in which he encouraged President Obama to adopt his state

  • benson1

    One day after this tirade by Santorum against Romney, Santorum said he’d be willing to serve as VP for the good of the country.
    What a conceited blowhard opportunist.

    On the Leno show when ask if there was a place for Santorum in his administration Romney said yes as Press Secretary. That is so priceless I can hardly stand it.

    Gingrich/2012