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MEMBER DIARY

The Casey Anthony Verdict is Not an Endorsement of Our Criminal Justice System

From the diaries by Erick

When the Casey Anthony verdict was announced I expected celebration from her defense team. I was more taken aback by the celebratory tone taken by pundits like Geraldo Rivera and Judge Andrew Napolitano. Their position is the same one that many liberals, anti-death penalty activists and libertarians are promoting now: this proves the system works.

But it doesn’t.

The American justice system is the greatest legal system in the world but like any other it is fallible. In the interest of liberty we err on the side of caution in criminal cases, but that means that in many cases we do not get justice. Talking heads on Fox were making the point that this was justice, that the verdict is a victory for the Constitution. This is wrong. Criminals getting off is a byproduct of a our love of liberty but it certainly isn’t an endorsement of our system.

Casey Anthony may or may not have killed her child but we know she committed several crimes afterward. She didn’t report her daughter missing for weeks. When police were finally involved she attempted to frame an innocent woman for murder. While her daughter was supposedly missing she was out partying. If not reporting your daughter missing for a month isn’t child abuse – or at least child neglect – nothing is.

But a quirk in the law makes it so that that the same child abuse that can get your children taken away by CPS can’t put you in jail when that child turns up put in a garbage bag and thrown into a swamp. The best legal system in the world cannot bring justice to Caylee Anthony’s killer. This is the price we pay for liberty but it is hardly an endorsement of our system.

Little Caylee Anthony was abused, possibly raped according to her own mother who claimed George Anthony was a child molester. She disappeared and her mother did nothing. She died a horrible death and her family hired lawyers. Her body was desecrated, thrown into a ditch like so much garbage and her mother will likely walk free at sentencing. How is this an endorsement of American justice?

That our legal system lets the guilty walk free is sad but arguably necessary for the maintenance of liberty. That our pundits can find cause for celebrating the release of a woman who in the best case scenario simply didn’t care that her daughter was molested then later kidnapped is disgusting. This is a tragedy, not a victory for freedom and America.

Casey Anthony got off because she worked the system. In a fair and impartial court system this happens. It’s too bad. But the worst part of this is the idea that we can take the denial of justice for a toddler who was brutally murdered and use it to pat ourselves on the back about what a great society we are.

Are we a great society because a young, damaged single mother who claimed her own father molested her left her daughter with him to go drinking? Are we a great society because we produce people who would rather go to wet t-shirt contests than look for their missing children? Are we a great society because our citizens try to frame innocent people for crimes they didn’t commit? Or are we a great society because people like that can find a way to get off?

The Casey Anthony verdict doesn’t endorse our criminal justice system; it exposes our crumbling society. The courts can’t always dispense justice, it is up to society to protect our children. We need to bring back public shaming, we need to bring back the idea of moral responsibility separate from legal responsibility. Some people lament that Casey Anthony will not be able to hold a job or go out with her friends or meet a decent man because of the public scrutiny of the trial. Caylee Anthony will never be able to do those things either.

The Anthony family deserves society’s scorn, not our philosophical justifications of why they aren’t in prison. Caylee Anthony paid the ultimate price for being born into a family of dysfunctional criminals who by their own admission lied to police again and again to cover up a crime they say they played no part in. Our justice system failed to hold them legally responsible, now it remains to be seen if our moral fiber is as easily deceived as our courts.

COMMENTS

  • http://jhpruitt.blogtownhall.com/ kipling

    I am not overly familiar with the case but it appears to me that the state bears responsibility as well. No way this woman should walk free. Even if unable to convict on murder, there are numerous felonies that need to be prosecuted. One should question the competence of the prosecutors in this case.

    • clowngirl

      I haven’t followed the case closely but it would seem like doing every thing possible to prevent little Caylee’s disappearance from being reported, telling police she was still alive and kidnapped causing them to invest massive time and resources in trying to find her, trying to frame an innocent woman, dumping her daughter’s body in a swamp which led to most of the physical evidence being destroyed, etc. would all add up to something much more serious than just 4 misdemeanors that carry a sentence of up to one year each.

      Maybe Florida could go the Al Capone route. My mom (who has followed the case obsessively) tells me Casey Anthony forged something like 50-100 checks. Has the statute of limitations expired on that? If not, then the state of Florida should make investigating those forgeries a top priority, charge her with however many counts they can find evidence to support and when she’s convicted sentence her to the maximum penalty with each count to be served consecutively.

      • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

        IN SC people do time for that. Florida? Probably not.

        • Scope

          Cindy Anthony told police, or someone that Casey stole money or checks from her, and, she forged checks from her grandfather’s account that was set up to pay for his expenses in the nursing home. Way back, Cindy said that stuff herself.

          • Scope

            called the police to report her car being stolen. Apparently the car Casey was driving was owned by Cindy or her and George. Cindy will never bring charges against her.

            Casey isn’t done with her legal problems yet. A woman named Zenida Gonzalez (sp) is suing her for defamation. Tim Miller from Texas Equisearch is looking into suing her to reclaim the $112,000. he spent searching for Caylee, when Baez said in court, Caylee was never missing. The IRS has filed a lien against her for $70,000. in unpaid taxes. I understand she is also responsible for some of her trial expenses. It has only started. I’m sure there will be frivilous charges, and some that will stick.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Its more likely jurors make money when their verdict is like a man biting a dog. I think many jurors on long trials like this misconstrue the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard and turn it into “any doubt”.

  • rightwingmom52

    That was exactly my take on the “doubt” issue.

    And thank you Rob for putting this to words. While I understood Erick’s diary, this was one of the very few times I disagree with him. The anger I felt today after the verdict was announced quickly turned to sadness, not only for this child, but also for a society that continues to devalue life and celebrate celebrity.

    In spite of the verdict, I do still believe we have the best system, however, when you add the human element, it doesn’t always work as it should.

  • Doc Holliday

    You claim libertarians support this verdict, where is your proof? What is libertarian about an unsolved murder case? I hate it when people try the throw in crap that doesn’t even relate to the argument, it is only thrown in to reveal the author’s bias.

  • Finrod

    .

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    t

  • aesthete

    Personally, I don’t consider a day complete unless I’ve run over at least 20 ethnic children in my gas guzzling Hummerzine on my way to the brothel, where I will have gay sex while high on the cocaine that my illegal immigrant manservant, Manuel, procured for me while he wasn’t busy counting the millions that I’ve made as a billionaire manager of a Fortune 500 company that either makes its money by strangling third-worlders in sweat shops, or by releasing exhaust fumes into the environment all day (I can’t remember when I’m spending most of my days smoking crack, dontcha know).

  • http://www.helpawhiteguy.com livefreenh

    Or does it mean that the author cannot put two sentences together coherently? I’m sure that many of us would love to hear your complete thoughts on this matter, and in fact, this is why there is a comment section here. If you self-censor because you don’t have anything to say, then please go all the way — remember that children should be seen and not heard. If, on the other hand, you think that we have a short attention span and you are keeping it short for our sake, please do remember that politics is for big people who have the time to spend, and not for “young men”. For “it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” — Aristotle

  • Finrod

    ..

  • Bill S

    I knew it all along.

    ( ;-) )

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    I’ll remember that in the future.

  • aesthete

    Erick Erickson is *a* conservative, and the message of his post earlier this morning was “the system works under duress”. For that matter, many conservatives agree with him, and many liberals from around the web agree with Nancy Grace, et al. IOW, you’re either pigeonholing the opposition as a bunch of “liberals, anti-death penalty activists and libertarians”, not noting the many red-meat conservatives who agree, or you simply weren’t aware of the many conservatives who disagree with you. In much the same way that your perfectly functional scientific calculator can tell you that a variable cannot be found, our imperfect system works as intended when a burden of proof is not met for someone who seems awfully guilty given circumstantial evidence. What is being celebrated is *not* the lack of justice, but rather the fact that the system works under duress.

  • Doc Holliday

    came out as a libertarian a few years back. Hmm, let’s think about this. He has an opinion on a court case. He is one man, so we know we can’t argue from the specific to the general. But taking that aside, let’s think here.

    Napolitano was a judge, and his politics are libertarian. Now, in this case he is giving his opinion on a criminal trial. Now, what part of his background would impact his view the most? Would it be that he is a libertarian, and some new previously undiscovered type that actually wants child killers to go free? Or would it be that he was a JUDGE, and he might come to his personal opinion based on that background. Hmm, this is a toughie. bleh

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    You have no problems making points about Liberalism using individuals to illustrate common thought. Libertarians aren’t different in that regard – they share values. I’m criticizing them. Sorry it bothers you. I’m bothered by the idea that playing the system is celebrated. A woman who didn’t call the cops for 30 days when her baby went missing and tried to frame an innocent person for murder beat the rap. This is not the case to hold up as a success of the system. What about the innocent woman who she tried to jam up? What about the child that was murdered. This is a tragedy not a victory.

  • Doc Holliday

    the average person on a jury is more likely to be a Oprah-tarian or Are You Smarter than a 3rd grader-tarian. You say a child is dead so you are made this chick got off. Hello, ever here of our justice system? They have to prove she did it. Or do you want lynch mobs?

    Personally, I would guess she did it, but since I did not slavishly watch the trial like the millions of voyeurs hiding in the cloak of compassion, my guess doesn’t matter too much.

  • aesthete

    held in common among libertarians is the celebration of murder — you won’t find it. Twitter “proves” a variety of horrible things about people whose beliefs one dislikes — I could go “prove” to you that conservatives want Mexican immigrants gunned down by A-10s, American citizens killed under mere suspicion of sympathy for terrorists, or any number of horrible things. Heck, I could “prove” that conservatives believe any number of conspiracy theories, and that they hold it as a “shared value” amongst themselves by going to any number of online sites, including some that are well-known to conservatives.

    I can genuinely prove that a generally shared value by leftists is government intervention to produce equality — I can prove that by citing John Rawl’s “A Theory of Justice”, Karl Marx’ writings, and other philosophers who have contributed to liberalism, and by citing contemporary leftists who would agree to that statement. I cannot genuinely make the claim that a shared value of liberals is consuming human flesh every winter solstice — the proof in primary documents and among acolytes citing general principle is simply not there.

    I will also note that your attempted innuendo in the following quote (“Their position is the same one that many liberals, anti-death penalty activists and libertarians are promoting now: this proves the system works”) is made problematic due to the fact that many conservatives are themselves arguing the same thing as I’m guessing Napolitano made — including Erick Erickson.

    Unfortunately, my Libertarian Hive Mind is not up to spec, making it difficult for me to intercept Napolitano’s telepathic messages sent to the libertarian faithful, but my guess is that he’s not rejoicing at the death of a child or at the fact that a murderer got off free, if for no other reason than that he’s a firm Catholic. Rather, I’m guessing that the “celebration” was due to the fact that our system worked even when extreme pressure was applied: it did not convict in a case where conviction was not appropriate, given the paucity of evidence. It’s the same sense of jubilation and relief that occurs when scumbags win 1st Am cases. Interpreting it as uncharitably as you have is just as incendiary as liberals sneering that conservatives who support certain military actions just want to see brown babies die — just because something bad results from a given policy is not sufficient reason to indict supporters of said policy with support for the bad thing in question.

  • mirac777

    Its an emotional subject, and it has many people acting very irrational. The media circus caused millions of so-called “compassionate people” to scream for Casey Anthony to be killed.. the lack of proof be damned! Talk about the mob mentality!

  • aesthete

    The prosecution didn’t make their case — the case that they made (and that the media made) was based on hearsay, circumstantial evidence, and

    Just so that Mr Taylor is clear, though, lemme dust off the old Libertarian Pope Hat and issue a brief encyclical:

    *puts on hat, clears throat*

    Libertarians are not happy that the murderer, whether that murderer be Casey (as I suspect) or someone else, roams free as the few remains of Kaylee decay in a tomb. That is not justice, and we are not made happy by this result.

    Libertarians *are* thrilled that the system is strong enough that they will not be executed on Nancy Grace’s say-so: public hysteria would be enough to carry the day in other, less civilized countries, but it is not sufficient to convert a case with circumstantial evidence (i.e., not enough to convict) into a kangaroo court where gut feeling replaces a review of the facts and burden of proof.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    …you lose places to draw the line.

  • aesthete

    as are many libertarians.

    Even if it were true, that statement is no less of a non-sequitur than when liberals claim that the Founding Fathers cannot be taken seriously due to their acceptance of slavery.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Lots of people claim to be against abortion but won’t lift a finger to stop it.

  • Doc Holliday

    Giulliani actually reduced abortions in New York, he actually saved lives. Many politicians that check all the right marks in anti-abortion surveys have not saved a single life.

    By the way, the term “abortion on demand” is flawed. It sounds like Obama’s belief in medical treatment on demand. A person can not get an abortion unless another person is willing to perform it.

    And what any of this has to do with this trial I have no idea.

  • Doc Holliday

    Socons in particular run for political posts using abortion as a red flag, when they know their position will not affect abortion in any way.

  • aesthete

    Rhetorical support (and he’s not exactly bashful about his views on the subject), and “”. No disrespect to you, Neil, or other atheists on the board, but considering that Napolitano is a devout Catholic who considers himself pro-life, I’d wager that he’s spent more money fighting abortion both as a percentage of his income and in absolute terms than many, if not most, of the people posting on RedState, nevermind the general American public. That’s not a slam on RS, just a guess based on his profile and the funds available to him. At any rate, I know for a fact that I’m solidly pro-life, am a member of AZ RTL, and volunteered at a crisis pregnancy center for a couple of years. But hey, we’re both libertarian-leaning righties, so I’m sure that those who dislike libertarians can think of some other soul-scarring position to discredit our views on unrelated subjects :P

    Seriously, if you’re going to indict people for not doing anything about abortions, then there’s about 80% of Americans you might want to have a chat with who I’d wager have done less than Napolitano or me rhetorically, financially or otherwise: are you going to go to them one-by-one to see if they’re morally suited to render judgement on a given issue?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    .

  • Doc Holliday

    interesting

  • mirac777

    She has already been locked up for what 2 1/2 years? That isnt getting offscott free. Your whole article denies one major fact here: For a conviction of pre-mediated murder to put Casey Anthony to death there has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Putting the emotions aside about a child being killed, where is the concrete proof of murder committed by Casey? Name it and you might have a valid point. The prosecutor over-reached when we look at the scant, very very circumstantial supposed evidence of pre-meditated murder period.

    She/they wont get away with this, whoever did this will burn in hell for eternity, and in the emantime their conscience will eat them alive.. if they have one.

  • Doc Holliday

    red flag, bloody shirt, well, at least you got my point.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I know that’s what the Klan Dems whined about when the Republicans would win.

    Interesting that it offends you.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

  • radicalrighty

    that Casey’s “celebrity” will be “celebrated” by the paparazzi, each time she shows her face for the rest of her lying life.

  • wordwaryor

    The problem is that forensics could NOT shed much if any light on this case because, decay was too far gone. There was no trauma or broken bones, crushed skull etc. And the jury ignored the massive circumstantial evidence .

    I believe Baez gave a clue in his post verdict statment. He said

  • janetedin

    Have watched most of this trial. The ‘talking heads’ criticized Casey because she was ‘stone-faced’ during the trial. After all juries have to ‘like’ the defendant (in other words play to the jury). However, once the verdict was in these same ‘talking heads’ said she was not found guilty because she had attained ‘celebrity status.’

    Who made her a celebrity? The oh so clever legal types who gained tremendously by all the attention and kept this going at a fever pitch. How else do you maintain the incredibly high ratings on such channels such as HLN.

    Nancy Grace – opinionated – obnoxious screeching voice/ Jane Velez Mitchell – another ‘drama queen’ – all stirring the mob mentality. For what? Ratings. Parsing each word and ‘explaining’ to us – the public who would comprise the jury – what each and every word means.

    The Prosecution did NOT make their case – junk science etc. is not proof. They thought that they had it in the bag – asked for the death penalty – and couldn’t bring the evidence in to reach that high standard. The death penalty would have assured their place in history and …follow the money…book deals, etc.

    Two questions. #1 How, after the skull was moved by Kronk (dropped out of the bag/picked up by his meter-reader stick) did the mandible stay attached (after decomposition at the tempero-mandibular joint) with duct tape pristinely in position – ??? Cause of death or ‘manipulated’

    #2 – If Casey was so smart and cunning and clever as to cover this crime did she so stupidly ‘dump the body in the trash’ 30 seconds from her home??? Florida is full of canals and surrounded by water.

    The jury simply did not buy the evidence. Good or bad? Right or wrong.

  • edintexas

    While in college I was foreman of a jury which found the accused “Not Guilty” by reason of the state failing to make their case.

    When I was an LEO I’ve had a jury find a defendant “Not Guilty” with direct evidence that the accused did exactly what the government alleged in the indictment. And I’ve had jurors, after bringing a “Guilty” verdict, wait for the Assistant US Attorney and I to ask “What else did the accused do that was not in the indictment and evidence presented to us?”

    I have not followed this trial. I have heard, from time to time, on the news that this person, or that, believed the circumstantial case was deficient. I’ve heard lots of “talking heads” proclaim Casey’s guilt. I’ve heard legal talking heads claim that the errors in the trial meant the expected guilty verdict would be overturned on appeal.

    I don’t know the answer as to what happened. It is a shame that we’ll likely never know exactly what happened. It is an even greater shame that this little girl did not live a full and complete life. The jury has spoken and neither I, nor anyone else, can alter the verdict. The government has no appeal in a criminal case. Instead of trying to re-try the case in the media, or damning the “system”, jurors, prosecutors, defense team or defendant, we should say a prayer for the little girl and turn our attention to trying to fix the problems this country has.

    Just my $0.02

  • aesthete

    ..

  • Doc Holliday

    that was the origination of the term. Of course Howard was proven to be a liar. My point, as you know, was to use a metaphor describing when politicians get others riled up about nothing. I probably could have more aptly used Red Herring, or Yellow Journalism.

    Neil, you should sleep it off. I have probably had more than you, but you are the one that needs a break. You go from a discussion attacking libertarians over a trial verdict, to attacking libertarians over abortion, to calling me a Klansman. It is beneath you, at least I think it is.

  • Ann_W

    then frames her dad for manslaughter and child sexual abuse– any evidence that a conscience is involved here? Her mother saying that she was the one who looked up “chloroform” and remembers the ladder being left up on the pool one critical day indicates how Casey may have been turned into the monster she is.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    And then trying to frame a woman for murder is evidence of guilt. Right?

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    There you go again. Now the civil war and abortion are ‘nothings’ that just get people riled up.

    And then you wonder why we call you out on this stuff.

  • Doc Holliday

    I specifically said I was referring to candidates that use abortion to crush their opponents when the office they seek has no power to change abortion laws.

    Who said the Civil War was over nothing? I know you and a small group here are more “blue state” when it comes to the Civil War, in the sense you see so called neo Confederates as a clear and present danger. But I said nothing about the Civil War. I think most here that know me would not believe I thought the war was “nothing”.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    ….

  • Doc Holliday

    I mentioned several after the fact. You understood what I meant, but still went for the jugular. Regardless you accused me of racism and terrorism when you should have known me by now. Maybe you said it as a lark, but you have no high ground here, let’s drop it.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You’re claiming above that references to the Civil War and to abortion are equivalent, and are both ‘nothings.’

    You’re whining that they’re bad things to bring up.

    Ultimately I have no choice but to conclude you just don’t care about abortion, no matter what Kerry-esque lip service you give the topic.

  • gawken

    Red State server should crash in 3…2…1

  • Doc Holliday

    in fact that is near the bottom of my priority list. You are the one that turned a discussion about the author’s attack on libertarians, to one about abortion. You were grasping at straws and everyone can see it. Who has defended your position on Judge Napolitano? I was very clear that his opinion was his own, that his background as a judge was most relevant in this case, and that libertarians do not support murderers getting off scot free. You are the one who keeps twisting everything people say, at to little effect I might add.

    I have said my position on abortion many times here. If you are that interested in it, look it up.

  • rockymtn1776

    Did the mother murder her child ? Maybe, we will never know for sure. Was she an accomplice ? ABSOLUTELY ! It appears the entire family is a bunch of liers !

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    You are the one who seems offended whenever libertarianism is exposed as the morally bankrupt ideology that it is.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    . …

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    I assumed you’d get it. My bad. Sorry to oppress you so much by being critical of Libertarian ideas that you feel the need to cry for 16 hours and insult me. Something no Libertarian does when children are raped and murdered, oddly enough.

    Almost like Libertarianism is a pretension.

  • Doc Holliday

    other than being a jerk and setting the RS record for one liner responses?

  • Finrod

    So much so that the Founders put it right between Life and the Pursuit of Happiness.

  • johnstoirvin

    daughter or not, the fact remains that, after three years, the police and prosecution failed to assemble and present sufficient evidence to prove she did. Twelve people who heard every word of evidence agreed that they failed, yet an army of armchair quarterbacks who were NOT there to hear every word, who got the sum total of their knowledge of the case from the evening news, blogs, newspaper or friends and relatives, are not pleased with their decision. C’est la vie.

  • streiff

    if you’ll point me to the indictment of her father for either manslaughter or molestation I’m willing to admit I’m wrong. Otherwise you need to amend your claim.

  • pwsmith2

    Like most district attorneys who are animals of political pressure and posture they charge Casey Anthony with crimes that the “media” and political pressure dictated. And now have failed to get a conviction. It happened with OJ, Rodney King and countless others.

    When are these guys going to get it that you have to charge with what can be convicted not the home run that the newspapers and reported what to see you move forward on.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    We’re on a 6 server cluster, you see.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    Does he post them somewhere later?

  • aesthete

    Not to be too self-referential or anything, but this is exactly what I was referring to when I said in another thread that mutual respect should be aspired towards in the interest of forging a better relationship among coalition partners. Implicitly accusing large swathes of people you disagree with of holding a quite literally sociopathic, uncaring view when it comes to children’s well-being for apparently no reason is… well… it speaks for itself. No one on this thread who has disagreed with you called you a monster, or implied that you are one. I’d appreciate it if you’d return the favor.

  • JSobieski

    poor people to die?

    Dehumanizing opponents is what liberals do. Sorry to see that you are learning from the wrong side.

    If we are just going to make stuff up about the intentions of others, I am going to say that you purposely kidnap the pets of kids with cancer, cook the pets, and feed them to the kids.

    My statement above has just as much validity as yours, only I have the sense to understand that limitation.

  • streiff

    is a capital offense? I guess Capitol Hill had better clear out fast.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    The fact is that she was proven to commit several serious crimes including the false report against an innocent woman and will probably be out at sentencing. This isn’t an endorsement of our system, but the price we pay for freedom.

  • streiff

    she was not “proven to commit several serious crimes including the false report against an innocent woman” that is just false on its face and the fact that you’re writing on this subject an state this is scary.

    She was convicted of four misdemeanor counts.,

  • Scope

    that at the current time, if you spank your child, that child can be taken away from you if it is reported. At the same time, it currently isn’t a crime for not reporting your child missing. Casey didn’t call 911 to report Caylee missing, Cindy did. I honestly believe that Casey would never have reported it. Don’t know if it was the same call when Cindy said she just got the car back, and that” it smelled like there was a damn dead body in it.” That’s why I don’t believe Cindy or George were a part of Caylee’s death, but I believe they were a part of the cover up. Someone who knowingly participates in the cover up should suffer some consequence as well.

    I heard today that someone is going to try to get a law passed called the Caylee law, which would make it a crime for any parent not reporting their child missing within 24 hours of when they went missing. Too late for Caylee, but would be a good thing for the future for other children.

  • johnstoirvin

    “The Casey Anthony verdict doesn

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    I’m not saying Casey Anthony didn’t get a fair trial or that our system should be changed, i say that our system is the best in the world but this isn’t the best case to prove that. Lying to police about whether someone kidnapped your daughter is a crime, not a capital one, and it should be worth at least 3-5 – just for the sake of the poor woman who got jammed up for a few days. But trying to frame someone for murder in FL only gets you a year. Not our shining moment Justice wise is my point. Also trying to frame someone for murder is a little beyond being a bad person. Not giving to charity makes you a bad person, trying to frame an innocent person for murder makes you a villain.

    People want slam dunks in court so lots of people work the jury. Let a body degrade enough and all evidence is gone. Cast a wide net of accusations and people will doubt your guilt. In this case someone who is a criminal either got away with murder or being an accomplice to murder because we ere on the side of caution. I agree we should but celebrating this is like using a guy who shoots himself in the foot while cleaning his gun as an example of the awesomeness of the 2nd Amendment.

  • Ann_W

    when people are asking you constantly where she is, then your car ends up smelling like a dead body, kind goes beyond being a “bad person”. Especially when the daughter that you just randomly decide to lie about ends up actually being dead, and the lies bought you enough time that the cause of death is no longer determinable.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    And anarchy is slavery.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Ordered liberty was the founders concept. Some forget the order part.

  • streiff

    1. She was convicted of 4 misdemeanors.

    2. She has already served 3 years in jail… more than she would have received if she’d been tried for them.

    3. No one was framed for anything.

    Your claim that there was a murder supposes you have more knowledge about the cause of death than a platoon of pathologists. All we know for fact is that a child died — we don’t know how, the body was dumped, and the disappearance wasn’t reported. None of that speaks to murder and what we know of her personality says she has never premeditated anything in her entire life.

    What we should be celebrating, if we are celebrating anything, is that a woman was not sent to death row because of a lynch mob mentality.

  • Finrod

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter …

    You should know the rest.

  • Scope

    it seems to me, for some, the order part hasn’t been forgotten. It is the “problem.”

  • Finrod

    You’ve dragged it out so many times that the straw is falling out of it by now.

  • acat

    Just sayin’

    Libertarian is not the same as libertine.

    Despite the same 6 letters appearing at the start of both words, they are not synonymous.

    Ron Paul (spit) is not the same as libertarian, but that’s a separate discussion.

    Mew

  • Aaron Gardner

    These are all destructive of these ends. You can quote the founders all you want, it is meaningless when you reject the foundation upon which they made those statements.

    There is a moral order and it doesn’t strip you of a single natural right for the government to acknowledge this everlasting truth. Even if you really really want it to.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Everyone knows if you believe in social order you’re a “compassionate conservative socon theocrat” and hate liberty, the Constitution, and Mexican Coke.

  • Scope

    at least, in jail was for the stolen check charge her former friend filed against her.

    With the 4 misdemeanors, they carry a 1 year max penalty for each charge. It appears she will not be going back to jail after tomorrow for any time, as the jail has already issued statements on their plans of driving Casey to a location, somewhere in the community, and releasing her. I understand a distant relative of Cindy’s that lives in Houston Texas offered to take her in. Obviously she has no money, but, if she did her best investment would be in some good plastic surgery. She will never again have a normal life, as if she ever did.

  • Ann_W

    The police could take what she told the attorneys about her dad and now charge him, so yeah, he was framed by his daughter.

  • Scope

    he posts a transcript of the day’s show. I believe he also posts a list of the articles he refers to in his show. From his stack of stuff.

  • earlgrey

    even have to hit the stack of stuff. Just click to read the transcript of the opening monologue and the link to Red State is at the bottom.

  • Bill S
  • acat

    … . . . …

  • Scope

    that strikes me is all of the talk about finding common ground between the conservatives and the libertarians. I am a big believer in the Russell Kirk version of conservatism, and he beautifully lays out in an article, the few places where there may be some common ground, but it is little and temporary. It appears that some would actually consider the socons as actually social convicts, who hold all the responsibility for the destruction of the entire Republican party. It sickens me that some would actually choose to participate in that destruction, brought on mainly by the liberals, but seem to be willing partners in that moral fabric disintegration. To paraphrase Kirk, and others, to disintegrate into a society where there is no moral order, is to give up liberty for anarchy, which always can only lead to a government of tyranny. Someone always steps in to regain order and power, and in a disintegrated state, means those such as the Obama Marxists can be that much more successful at prevailing.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/a-dispassionate-assessment-of-libertarians

  • Jim Tomasik

    Stay thirsty my friends.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    . .

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    I was a Libertarian for many years – being critical of the Libertarian view on crime is not calling people monsters. If pointing out failings in philosophy is out of bounds then society devolves.

  • http://www.greenvilledragnet.com Rob Taylor

    Of lying to the police I mean? And legal code aside you don’t think it’s serious to tell police someone kidnapped you child when they didn’t? I’m talking about morals – you’re making a legal distinction.

    This is my point. Our society is so corrupt that you’re literally arguing that accusing an innocent woman of kidnapping a child that was dead is no big deal. You’re sayng finding a corpse in a trash bag with duct tape over it’s mouth is not evidence of foul play. You’re claiming that misdemeanor crimes are no big deal. How can you suggest I’m wrong to be disgusted by the idea that this is a victory when a child is dead and the only reason the woman who Casey Anthony accused of taking her daughter isn’t in jail is because Anthony couldn’t keep hr story straight.

    What about that woman? Is her life no big deal? Her legal bills were no big deal? Losing her job was no big deal? It’s a “lynch mob” to claim those things are wrong?

  • aesthete

    “[Feeling empathy is] Something no Libertarian does when children are raped and murdered” seems pretty unwarranted to me. I’m pretty sure that most people, regardless of political affiliation or views on crime, do not experience anything but sadness at hearing about the loss of a child. You are more than welcome to point out any failings in libertarian philosophy, but here it just seems like you’re taking an unwarranted swipe at people because you don’t like what they’ve said about the trial. Criticism of various ideologies is fine as far as I’m concerned; the motivations of wide swathes of fellow Americans should be off-limits, I think. (That goes as much for liberals as it does libertarians, as far as I’m concerned.)

  • aesthete

    Here I was, thinking that all I was doing was watching my nephew’s baseball game in the sweltering AZ sun and sipping a cold one, when in reality I am DESTROYING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FROM WITHIN, AND ALL MORALITY WITH IT!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    I’m really more productive than I give myself credit for being — I’m just wondering if I can stick “single-handedly destroying the Republican party” on my resume somewhere…

  • acat

    and a couple paws as well. Don’t hog all the credit. (grin)

    Mew

  • aesthete

    By definition, that makes me a greedy hoarder of credit FUR PROFFIT.

  • commonking

    I’m gonna have to get me one of those hats!

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    involuntary manslaughter/reckless homicide

  • Scope

    If former or current boyfriend made that statement, I wondered why the prosecution would not have had a chat with the boyfriend as to that statement. If boyfriend knew, and saw, Casey drugging the child, and leaving her unattended in a vehicle, it would make him appear to be as irresponsible and negligent for not removing the child from vehicle, or reporting the neglect.

    There has been so much talk about the prosecution overreaching and not going for lesser charges, but there were lesser charges to convict on included. From the statements now given by juror number 3, I don’t think anything the prosecution could have done would have changed the minds of those jurors, short of providing a video tape of Casey doing whatever she did. Juror number 3 said that “she didn’t say that Casey was innocent.” She said that “if she didn’t know how Caylee died, how could she choose a penalty for her.” That means that the jurors were clearly not fully understanding what the jury instructions were. She wasn’t asked to even consider any penalty in this phase of the trial. She wanted the smoking gun, and when it wasn’t provided.

    I watched the closing statements over the weekend, and prosecutor Ashton made sure to tell the jury that even if they thought that Caylee died accidentially, while in the care of Casey, they could still convict on felony murder, rather than premediatated.
    Baez, in opening, said that Caylee drowned in the family pool. He provided a picture of Caylee opening the sliding door to the backyard where the pool was. There were no childlocks anywhere in the house, and I guess it must be local laws that require a fence around a pool to avoid children from climbing or falling into pools and drowning while unattended. There was no fence around the pool. Granted it was Cindy and George’s home, but it was also where Casey and Caylee called home. If the jurors took the time to talk through all of the facts and circumstances, and the fact that many jurors have small children and/or grandchildren, wouldn’t you think that would come up from one of them?

    No matter, I do believe the jury did not understand what their ultimate job was. It appears that Baez was just the most convincing story teller, as his story was no more provable or credible, than Ashton not being able to provide a video of the murder/accident. I really believe that the public outrage is coming because the only one who knows the truth about what happened to this day is unwilling to tell the truth to this day. I think the public could have accepted a judgment with caution, and would have found her guilty of a lesser charge. Jose Baez won the case in his opening statements. The ability of an attorney to spin the best tale is not justice, at least where this jury was concerned.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    And one good reason for jurors not to speak in cases of convictions is that such statements could cause a reversal. But given the double jeopardy rule, juror mistakes of this kind are no help to achieve justice. That will have to wait for the afterlife in this case.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    the child was killed. They don’t have to prove that.

  • Scope

    that could come out of this, would be that these jurors will make enough statements that indicate they did not understand, and therefore did not serve justice in this case. Then maybe there will be some movement to fix a broken system. For starters I would like juries to be selected differently. The lawyers arguing for and against should have no say in the selection process. I would love to see some impartial party or entity to choose the jury for each case, especially capitol cases. What do you think, where are the holes there?

  • Doc Holliday

    as a requisite for murder convictions. I mean, if someone kills someone, why does the motive matter? Maybe they just wanted the person dead.

    could you explain it GC?

  • rightwingmom52

    I heard an analyst say you don’t have to prove motive to convict. I think it was Judge Pirro on Fox but I was cooking dinner and the TV was background noise. I’m sure GC can shed more light.

  • Doc Holliday

    I guess I know a little bit about motive. I think it is just one more brick in building a case against someone, particularly a circumstantial case. Well, that is about all I know about it.

  • Tbone

    “Maybe they just wanted the person dead. “

  • JSobieski

    If a murder occurs on video camera, and the prosecutor can prove the defendant is the perpatrator on the tape, motive doesn’t matter.

    If however the case is based on circumstantial evidence, reasonable doubt can sometimes be reached simply by the defendant saying “Why would I put myself at risk by killing someone when I have nothing to gain by doing so?”

    It all comes down to reasonable doubt and precluding the ability to the defendant to propose alternative theories of death that don’t involve the criminal liability of the defendant.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    Doc, motive is NOT an element of the crime that has to be proved

    Of course, it helps in circumstantial evidence cases to be able to advance such a theory and of course jurors can determine that they don’t deem the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt due to the lack of same.

    But it is not part of any murder or manslaughter (or most any criminal statute) statute in the US of which I am aware that requires proof of motive and it certainly is not required under the Common Law.

  • Doc Holliday

    and anyone can feel free to answer my questions, be they general or to someone in particular.

  • Scope

    try to cover the motive factor. In closing arguments, prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick (in my opinion one of the very best on the case) went over some of the evidence presented, and made the point that there was no one else but Casey that had access to all of that evidence. Even the defense expert testified that there was chloroform in the trunk. The experts just disagreed on the amount, which is dumb as chloroform dissipates/evaporates over time. Remember Casey was somewhere, who knows where with all her lies, and the tests were conducted some time after her 31 days being somewhere. Casey was the only one with access to the car in all that time. Her mother reported that her daughter had stolen the car while she was gone, wherever.

    One of the very last things that Burdick put before the jury before resting was she asked, whose life would be better without Caylee. She played the 911 tape where Cindy was hysterical saying that Casey just told her that her granddaughter was missing for the last 31 days. She read parts of George’s suicide letter showing the utter anguish he was in, and that he wanted to die to be with Caylee. Her very last words were- whose life would be better without Caylee- she walked over to the video and put on the screen a picture of Casey at one of the clubs partying, and the other side of the scree showed Casey’s tatto Bella Vita, the good life, that she got after the so-called accident. Burdick then said, there’s your answer, and sat down. I’ve heard many lawyers and prosecutors say that it was one of the most powerful closing arguments they ever heard. My husband and I literally had the chills. However, it didn’t impress not one juror.

    On the first jury vote after first sitting down, 10 believed innocent, 2 believed guilt on the 1st degree charge. On the aggravated manslaughter the first vote was 6 yes and 6 no. Someone in the jury had an awful lot of influence on the other jurors. I still have a problem with one juror saying before being chosen that she didn’t judge people ? wasn’t that exactly what she was going to be asked to do? Another juror said that she was against the death penalty. The judge talked to her then, and she said she could be open minded, and she was chosen. How can you become a juror, on a murder trial, with the death penalty on the table, when you are clearly against the death penalty? Another potential juror was convicted of kidnapping, and served time in prison for it. The defense fought to get him seated, but fortunately he was not.

    I am clearly in the box with those that have said, your case wins or loses, or rises and falls, on the selection of the jury. I don’t know much about what lawyers get to pick the jury. Over the years there obviously has been alot of studies and money spent on who to pick by the questions asked of the potential jurors, by both sides. So, that means to me that the jury system has gone off the rails, and we no longer have a jury of our peers. We now have certain jurors picked by the lawyers who they believe will decide in their favor. Isn’t there something wrong with that?

  • JSobieski

    My comment was specifically addressed to the question of why intent sometimes matters.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    said proof any in event.

  • rightwingmom52

    All of what you said plus the fact that the jury does not determine punishment – their job is to find guilty or not guilty, so their views on punishment really should be irrelevant or at least set aside. If you can’t honestly do that, you should say so and move on. I was really surprised that there wasn’t at least one hold out who thought she was guilty of at least the lesser charge so there would be hung jury which would allow the DA to retry.

    I’d also like to make another point here. I keep hearing lots of talk blaming the prosecution for overcharging and bungling the case. I’m not sure that most folks realize that the District Attorney (the boss) most likely determined what charges to file, while the Prosecuting Attorneys (Ashton & team) actually tried the case. The DA may indeed have made an error in judgment, but I thought the PA team did a good job with what they had, and I appreciate their hard work. I’ve seen posts that Ashton was looking to move up the ladder or make a political name for himself by going for the death penalty which is very unlikely considering that he announced his retirement after a 34 year distinguished career. My impression was that he took his job seriously, and I’m sorry that he won’t be around to try to put bad guys away anymore.

  • Scope

    I’ve found it to be quite interesting that some, and I am referring to comments on all kinds of sites, who preface their statements with the fact that they didn’t follow this trial at all, are actually the loudest voices saying the prosecution really screwed up, they overcharged, and that Casey was convicted in the media. They accuse those who have a problem with the verdict of only being emotional. I admit that some of my reactions have surely been emotional, but, my interest has been in the process, and needing to have some kind of understanding of what the defense and the prosecution did or didn’t do is also for my educational benefit.

    While I understand that the defense did not have to prove anything, they rightly chose to put up a defense. It would have given Casey a great disadvantage not to have some kind of defense, even though they didn’t have to prove anything. It is my opinion that Jose Baez had as little to work with as the prosecution, as Baez indicated himself in the presser afterwards that he still doesn’t know for sure what happen himself. In the same presser he also vehemently said that this should be a lesson against the death penalty. He said that “we don’t need to kill our own citizens” , as he had just managed to get someone off that almost everyone knows was involved in a death.

    I just watched another Perry hearing where some attorneys, representing some media outlets, wanted the names of the jurors released. Perry has never said when or if he would release the names. He is clearly concerned about the safety of the jurors in this case, and said that the personal side of him wants to protect the jurors, but, the legal side of him knows that it is important to keep the open and transparent system we have in place. He spoke to the so-called journalists, and lectured them that they are putting the free speech amendment at risk by not reporting the facts, but write articles just to sensationalize. He said that it is their responsibility to keep the citizens informed with truth, that that is their job. He suggested that the journalists write some articles trying to promote more calmness and acceptance of the way the jury decided.

    Of course the HLN talking heads mostly all believe that the names should not be released, which goes against our free speech rights. Only a few believe that the jurors also have a responsibility in our open public system for the decisions they made. One of the attorney’s specifically brought up the accusations Baez made in opening saying that George and Lee sexually molested Casey. She said many people wondered if those statements had an effect on the jury, even though it was not allowed in closing. I am very curious about that also. Did baez bring that up, drag the family through the mud, destroy reputations and careers, only to take the focus off of Casey, or to give her some excuse for her behavior? I just now heard Jane Valez Mitchell say that one of the jurors said the sexual molestation charges against George did in fact influence her decision, even though those charges were never proven. Bingo.

    What do you think? I look at the amount of secrecy that goes on in our government with the secret meetings etc. from those that make our laws. Now we would have yet another right to info removed if jurors names were not released. The jurors have every right to not make any statements if they chose not to. One talking head suggested that Congress needs to pass a law saying that no jurors names should ever be released. Of course I know I am watching those on the sister station of Communist News Network.

  • Scope

    I did hear on the news last night that juror number 5 put out the statement that he is willing to sell his story to the highest bidder. And we are worrying about protecting jurors? I promise most all of them will make money off their time on this jury.

  • rightwingmom52

    Uh, I mean, names, especially if they’re out there making statements and some even charging for those statements (that’s speculation on my part).

    My main interest was the process as well, but you’d have to be pretty heartless not to feel some emotion about this. I just finished reading Ann Coulter’s take which focuses on the single mom issue. Very good despite the fact that I know some very good single mothers (some even very young), even in my own family. Here’s the link: http://www.anncoulter.com/

    I’d heard comments about jurors thinking George had something to do with the death and/or the cover up or that they bought into the molestation, even though there was no proof of any of it. So they were influenced not to convict on things there was no evidence of but then complained about the lack of evidence? Just doesn’t make sense to me.

    Personally, I do think the entire family was “off.” I have 2 great nieces, ages 3 and 5. If either of their mothers had hired a nanny, I 100% guarantee you that everybody in my family would have met her at some point, including me, despite the fact that I live in another state.

    And thanks for the laugh. When hubby and I lived in Atlanta, the Commie News Network, the Atlanta Urinal/Constipation newspaper (i.e., Journal/Constitution if you’re not familiar with it) and the adventures of Ted & Jane were pretty much in your face all the time.

  • Doc Holliday

    you explained it well, thanks :)

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    motive.

    Motive is NOT an element of the crime that has to be proved

    Of course, it helps in circumstantial evidence cases to be able to advance such a theory and of course jurors can determine that they don’t deem the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt due to the lack of same.

    But it is not part of any murder or manslaughter (or most any criminal statute) statute in the US of which I am aware that requires proof of motive and it certainly is not required under the Common Law.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I would round up that whole pathetic family, all of their defense team, and all of the jurors and throw them into magma.

    But that’s just me.

  • Scope

    and after hearing this morning, in court, the prosecution said that the police and investigators involved in the search for a live Casey are going to present Casey with that bill, I especially liked when Coulter said this-

    “As long as we’re looking for new revenue streams, how about billing these white trash low-lifes for their massive consumption of police resources? The dregs of society need to be assessed a fee for their abuse of government services and thrown in debtors prison in the unlikely event that they can’t pay.”

    I suspect that some of those big bucks she will be making will quickly find their way to paying off what appears to be a mountain of debt that is growing daily. I heard that ABC paid her $200,000. in 2008, and Jose being in charge of the money, never paid the almost $70,000. taxes due on it. The IRS filed a lien or whatever they file. Seems Jose has a problem paying even his own bills, and was not allowed to join the Florida Bar for 8 years because of outstanding debt he apparently tried to run away from. He didn’t even pay a dang $23. speeding ticket charge. Would you say birds of a feather?

  • runner12

    and I think that her insight was on target. She was discussing the evolving state of juries. She pointed out that many juries have the “CSI” mentality. They confuse reasonable doubt with no doubt and therefore expect a person’s guilt to be clearly pointed out by some high-tech, new-fangled technology that only exists on television. This is not reality.

    The burden of proof has shifted so much on the prosecution as a result of this influence of media, that common sense has seemed to have gone the way of the dodo bird. While I can understand the jury not seeing enough evidence to convict her of a capital crime, i am surprised that the lesser charge of manslaughter was also disregarded by the jury.

    So this verdict is due more to ignorance of the masses or rather poor understanding of reality, rather than excusing depravity. That being said, our jury system, while not perfect, is massively superior to any other.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    probably still enough to meet the elements of involuntary manslaughter or reckless homicide.

  • Scope

    that the jury members did not understand what their job was, or lacked the intelligence to even try to understand it. Juror number three said in an interview something to the effect “the prosecution did not connect the dots” and that it was their job to connect the dots. She implied that it was not the job of the jurors to try to connect the dots. So, I’ve been of the opinion that voting age should be 40, and now I believe jury duty age should require a certain IQ level.

    Let me ask you a question- Do you think jurors names should be sealed and not released?

  • Scope

    in order to round up the non-functioning Anthony family, the entire scream team, and the jurors that obviously didn’t understand what they were put there to do, and to throw them at the location of your choosing. These are not the people who should be any reflection on our society in any good way. If anything they are a lesson in what not to be or do. They belong in psychiatric textbooks.

  • acat

    Debtors prisons, that is.

    There are plenty of old prison buildings that have been closed, and even some new ones that have never been occupied that could be re-purposed.

    Hiring guards and a warden produces jobs, and the trustees can do all the work – cooking, laundry, painting, whatever.

    Run properly, it may even turn a profit for the municipality operating it.

    Too bad there’s not a legal way to put people away merely for excessive sucking at the public teat….

    Mew

  • Scope

    I remember the OJ trial. At that time, DNA was such a new technology, that an OJ atty. Barry Scheck was successfully able to make it sound like the Baez comments “fantasy forensics.”

    I’ve heard comments like there was no Casey DNA found at the scene. As one of the prosecutors said, DNA disintegrates over time, just as Caylee’s flesh and blood did. It seems that some think that if DNA is there it is there forever. The only thing left of Caylee was bone, and Casey obviously didn’t touch Caylee’s bones.

    We’ve all discussed the massive dumbing down of our citizens, and with all of the violence being a daily part of our news now, many have been hardened. Parents run out and buy their children some of the latest most violent video games. I’ll go so far as to say that there is an increasing acceptance of the blurring of the lines between good and evil. This case, for me at least, proves the dangerous increase of tolerance that not long ago would not be accepted by very many. Some guy at the courthouse today had a sign saying he wanted to marry Casey. He was asked if he was serious, he said yes, and that she has many good qualities, and that she is a good person. The guy looked to be early 20 something.

    By the few statements that have been released by some jurors, it would be most clear that they needed a video of the death in order to prove Casey guilty of anything. Yet they bought the drowning theory, with no evidence, and that George sexually molested her, again with no evidence. There is a major and massive disconnect, as you say.

  • Scope

    with requiring prisoners to work for their keep. For more rural prisons, they could even set up a food production program that could grow veges and whatever for their upkeep, and could share with the city prisons. There is certainly enough of a prison population, with varying skills, that could contribute. It doesn’t take any education or skill to pick or maintain vegetables. Hey, they could even be hired out for those jobs that “no one wants.” I remember reading something about some prisoners being responsible for the care of injured animals at animal sanctuaries, maintenance of course not medical care. They could be responsible for the maintenance of animals at local pounds. They could be responsible for cooking for soup kitchens. There are endless possibilities.

  • Doc Holliday

    I guess we got that cleared up, thanks to all.

  • Doc Holliday

    .

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    has a problem: People, of any age and IQ (whatever that ensures…nothing), are the worst! Al damage control since Eve bit the apple.

    I think that juror means that the state did not prove its case and I guess that is arguable. Based on what I know, which is little, I can’t agree. But am trying to be cautious in my criticism.

    I do not favor “professional” juror proposals. Judges are professional and most of them are liberal hacks.

    Haven’t thought about juror anonymity…will think and get back to you. E-mail me some links if you have any that argue for same.

  • acat

    That was the name of the penal farm here, decades ago – the “county farm”. Do something to get crosswise with the county sheriff, and part of your sentence was working on the farm.

    Now, though.. the Libs claim it’s cruel and unusual or something. I don’t get it.

    There were problems with the previous systems, no doubt. Watch “Shawshank Redemption” to see what a few of the obvious scams a warden with labor he doesn’t have to pay can pull… but it’s better, to my mind, to enforce this simplest principle- “if you don’t work, you don’t eat”.

    Worse, they killed the joke that “In Illinois, the license plates are made by the former governors”.

    Mew

  • runner12

    theory, but if they did then your last paragraph is an excellent logical point. It will be interesting to hear all of the jury members point of view. From what I have heard so far, it seems that the “CSI” syndrome was influential in their decision making.

  • rightwingmom52

    brought to mind an exchange I had with lineholder on another diary. If you didn’t read it, take a look. I think her comments are extremely relevant to what’s happened in this case.

    http://www.redstate.com/robtaylor/2011/06/28/the-death-of-morality-and-the-end-of-america/#comment-126

  • dodiafae

    about the necessity for a law that would require parents or legal guardians to report children missing within a short period of time. Do you know if there is some way for people to support this bill?

  • madjayhawk

    My problem now is with jerks like Hannity and Rivera. They pontificate about this trial like they have all the answers when in fact they know absolutely nothing and have not spent one minute looking at the evidence and drawing some common sense conclusions from it. They almost demand that we share their views. They are dead wrong on their facts. Rivera even suggested that Anthony had a dead cow in her trunk and that is what caused it to stink. Both of these jerks conveniently ignore the prosecution’s evidence or glibly write it off with Baez’s Johnny Cochran’s moment – Fantasy Forensics. Highly trained dogs smelled the odor. When Casey and Lee were put in the garage with the car while the police interviewed her mother and father after Cindy called 911 they could not stand the smell and had to leave the garage. There was plenty of good evidence that there was an odor in that car. It didn’t require a Harvard graduate doing endless lab studies to show that. The dogs tell you what that odor was.

    Rivera and Hannity do not know how to read and understand evidence and relate it to what actually happened. Anyone looking the evidence and just uses normal everyday common sense comes to the same conclusion – she killed Caylee.

    Rivera and Hannity are jerks. It is just not that they say the jury got it right they look down their noses at us who vehemently disagree and smugly lecture us using evidence that was never introduced or was clearly impeached by the prosecution. I will not watch people who has that much disrespect for their audience and is completely out of touch because they do not do their homework to look at both sides of the issue. They owe their audience an apology.