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Time to end caucuses for President

The discussion of Republican Party rules reform is beginning in the aftermath of the catastrophe of the new rules that were created by the RNC leadership in 2010. Many people attribute the lengthening process to just the new rules, but I would argue that there are several other factors. Some of the obvious ones are the weakness of the candidate field and new campaign finance structures. It is hard to imagine how Newt Gingrich would have been able to compete in South Carolina or Rick Santorum pretty much anywhere without SuperPAC support. Their campaigns would have run out of money in previous years, and their shows would have been up.  Blaming the “proportional” rules misses the point somewhat, as none of the states that have gone yet other than Florida previously operated under winner-take-all rules.

The real disaster of this cycle has been the presidential preference caucus. In Iowa, Nevada, and Maine, we have had disastrous voting procedures, with results unknown or in flux for days. In Iowa, this led to the resignation of the state party chair Matt Strawn. In Nevada, the state party’s failed efforts to run a caucus have been widely panned, although the state party chair had already announced that she was stepping down, so there hasn’t been the same kind of accountability. In Maine, I am hearing that state party Chairman Charlie Webster, who I quite like personally, is coming under tremendous pressure from county party chairs, elected officials and the party executive committee to step down.

But the problem with caucuses is not that they are hard to run, although some party leaders have called for improving those processes. After all, they are run by political parties which are notoriously incompetent and corrupt. I suspect that they could be run well.

The reason that we shouldn’t have a caucus is that it gives voters the illusion of participation while transferring power to party insiders or hyper-activists. What a binding presidential primary does is it subordinates the party insiders to the will of the voters. Do you want an illusion or accountability?

This is a process which makes Ron Paul a serious contender in states like Iowa, Minnesota, Nevada and Maine, where he is not even relevant in any state with a primary. Only in a process that deliberately restricts the number of participants could someone like Ron Paul stand a chance or use the silly process as a basis to build a strategy on.

How bad is this restriction? My friend Matt Gagnon reviewed the turnout in the last primary in Maine and compared it to the caucus, and this is what he found:

In 1996, more than 67,000 Republicans voted in their primary. In 2000, more than 64,000 Democrats and 96,000 Republicans voted.

This year, a little over 5,000 Mainers participated in the much ballyhooed and now very much disputed Romney vs. Paul death match.

I would note that the 2010 gubernatorial primary attracted over 120,000 Republican voters and 110,000 Democratic voters. And this primary resulted in the election of Paul Le Page, the most conservative serious candidate, who went on to win the general election in a blue-to-purple state. How can over a 95% drop in participation that results in “a death match” between Ron Paul activists and party insiders be good for our party?

The answer is that it is not. But let’s get in the weeds to see why. If you voted in a caucus, did you realize that to have your vote actually matter, you have to stay to become a delegate to a county, district, or state convention? If not, your vote doesn’t count at all. You just wasted your evening. Really.

Just ask the Ron Paul campaign, which explained how they got all the delegates from three counties they lost:

In one precinct in Larimer County, the straw poll vote was 23 for Santorum, 13 for Paul, 5 for Romney, 2 for Gingrich.  There were 13 delegate slots, and Ron Paul got ALL 13.

In a precinct in Delta County the vote was 22 for Santorum, 12 for Romney, 8 for Paul, 7 for Gingrich. There were 5 delegate slots, and ALL 5 went to Ron Paul.

In a Pueblo County precinct, the vote was 16 for Santorum, 11 for Romney, 3 for Gingrich and 2 for Paul. There were 2 delegate slots filled, and both were filled by Ron Paul supporters.

In these counties, Ron Paul came in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (last), but they got ALL of the delegates from these counties. In the county that Paul came in last, both of his voters became the only delegates, in spite of the fact that all the other candidates got 15-times more votes. When there aren’t well organized activists like the Ron Paul campaign, what happens? The actual Republican voters leave, and process is left to party insiders who give us people like Dede Scozzafava.

None of these states actually pick nominees for Governor or Senate or anything like that via caucuses. They only use the caucus to magnify their power when it comes to picking President. is that right?

One of the reasons that Redstate has urged readers to participate in local party organizations is to give an escape from these options. We can fix the party by beating the establishment and stopping it from being captured by people like Ron Paul supporters. And we can force it to be accountability to the will of voters by using a primary.

I should also add that there is another very serious problem with caucuses. It is very hard in a caucus system to create a method for allowing active duty, deployed soldiers from participating. Captain Sam Wright of the Service Members Law Center discusses said:

Those who serve our nation in uniform, and those who accompany spouses or parents who serve, should be given the opportunity to participate in the nomination as well as the election of candidates for president and other offices.  After all, were it not for their sacrifices, none of us would have the opportunity to vote in free elections.

So why do we have a process that excludes soldiers and transfers power to party insiders when we could have one that includes everyone and forces the party insiders to be accountable?

Because people don’t fight for it.

COMMENTS

  • Creedo

    Caucuses are a staple of the REPUBLICan style of government in opposition to the DEMOCRATic style of government. The entire point is to elect representative delegates The entire point is for people to get active in the Republican party, to get to know your community and your party, and to allow the committed minority to fight against the masses.

    The caucus system may not be perfect, but it’s a terrible mistake to abandon it and move towards the democratic style of government. I would rather see the nation move to full caucus participation and expand the caucuses to reach more areas than to abolish it altogether.

    The problem is not the system, it’s the people. The solution is for more people to get involved.

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      And that is exactly what happens in a primary.

      Want people to get involved, The Precinct Project will accomplish that.

      One of our own, ColdWarrior has been preaching about becoming a precinct committeeman for years.

      • Creedo

        I agree with the forbearers of the Repulbican party who fought for caucuses because of their representative nature. A primary is false involvement by comparison. Just showing up once a year to put in a vote is lazy governance – it’s a staple of democratic government. Lazy. Unparticipative. Fake.

        Advocating getting rid of caucuses is to advocate turning our back on Repulbicanism altogether and moving towards democrat solutions. It’s a terrible idea, and an admission of failure in our tradition that I’m not willing to take with you.

        • acat

          How did they attract a tiny fraction of the voters in previous years?

          Mew

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

        stay home and maybe, even the GOP is not yet populated by enough conservatives.

    • ihateliberals

      The Primary drew a crowd of 67,000 involved Republicans the Caucus attracted 5000 people wandering around. In Iowa we refer to this process as “Idiots Out Wondering Around” or “Iowa”.

      One reason we have such poor candidates in this most important of all elections is the process. Some of the People with the best ideas and processes to be President are eliminated by the lack of money to get their messages out. Then when you have a bad process to elect delagates and get money for the candidates the ones with little money are forced out. Then we have the RNC which is a now totally failed organization deciding who they want to support and stacking the deck in their favor. The RNC itself needs to go. It is not representative of the party anymore.

    • http://www.reddit.com/user/pi_over_three/ Pi Over Three

      Not only that, but a winner take all primary system would mean that the party elite have a much easier job of forcing their choice for candidate onto the rest of us.

      The whole thing would really just be formality. This year Romney would have won out of hand and there would have been no chance for anyone to challenge him. That there are no legitimate challengers this year and that none of them should even be running is completely different issue.

    • jacobite

      that any process which gives Mitt Romney a better chance to be nominated has to be rejected. Ron Paul is a crank, but Romney is the *ss-hole who ran for Senior Class President in your high school. No particular reason to run, except it sounds really neat and will look great on your college application to the Ivy League.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    We should also drive a stake through the heart of the “first in the nation” drivel and move to regional primaries.

    The caucuses allow people like the jackasses who Rick Santorum paid a million dollars to deliver the ever faithful “socon” vote and then there’s the Ron Paul fruits that you noted.

    We could start the process much later, it could actually be focused on real issues and we could probably get by with three to five debates hosted by conservative think tank instead of the Democratic National Committee.

    • Creedo

      You guys are just dying to turn the party over to the establishment permanently with this nonsense about eliminating the classic Republican idea of cacuses in favor of the Democratis primary. Romney would be the nominee right now if we had elminiated caucuses and gave guys like Santorum an opportunity to edge out the establishment guy.

      This is a terrible idea that I’m frankly suprised to see supported on a conservative web site. I would expect to find this kind of talk at Democratic Underground, not Redstate.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        over Rick Santorum, for whom I have none.

        And, in a more focused process that starts later and gives real candidates time to organize and prepare, the nominee might have been Rick Perry or Newt. And, in 2008 it could well have been Fred or Rudy, either of whom would have been far superior to McCain.

        Caucuses are exercises in complete idiocy. See Huckabee & Santorum, neither of whom have ever had an action that even approached “conservative”.

        • Creedo

          If you are wiling to turn your back on Republican style elections, you should maybe think about forming a third party and introducing your Democratic Underground ideas in that party to organize yourselves.

          • streiff

            your ideas are just silliness on stilts and your way of presenting them is ridiculous.

            Why don’t you comment on something you know something about. Like Power Rangers or My Little Pony?

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            nt

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            …or to define “Republican-style” elections.

            If you wish to present a defense of the caucus system, a reasoned comment – or better a diary – would be welcome. BTW, “reasoned comment” does not refer to results-based rationales or appeals to history (“we’ve always done it this way”) or appeals to authority.

            If you’re up to this, great – but please stop the name-calling. Nobody here is stealing material from DU.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            I can’t recall a more ill-informed ignorant poster here at RS.

        • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

          in the first place; not our processes.

      • Bill S

        The caucus system is exactly what has entrenched the establishment. They are the ones who call the shots on how the caucuses are implemented and conducted – it’s driven by the state GOP party apparatus.

        I’m not impressed by your high-and-mighty use of the term “republic”. Yeah, we get it. We live in a republic. Whoop de freakin’ do. I’m glad you passed Civics.

        Throw an accusation like your last one again, and you’ll be gone.

        • Creedo

          For how many years do people have to call for participation from the grass roots before the grass roots respond? I can tell you, the Santorum grass roots is responding. If we got rid of the caucus process, this thing would be over and Romney would be the nominee.

          If you don’t like the republican style of representative delegate elections, then either organize and do something about it, or find another party. It’s that simple. But as for me, I will never be in favor of getting rid of the representative republican style of delegate elections in favor of the democrat style of mob rule.

          • Bill S

            OK. You’ve just dropped your shorts and revealed your shortcomings.

            FWIW, Redstate has long supported the grass roots efforts of guys like ColdWarrior and Ron Robinson to build from ground up (I have a bit of an issue sometimes with CW’s messaging, but his mission is superb). So your call for “getting involved” is a bit hollow and no doubt stems from your own ignorance and lack of (self) awareness.

            Now run along and watch TV or something that’s more suited to your capabilities.

          • Creedo

            You clearly don’t understand the philisophical underpinnings of why we even have a caucus process, why it’s a Republican innovation, and why we shouldn’t turn our backs on it.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            http://www.redstate.com/soren_dayton/2012/02/26/time-to-end-caucuses-for-president/#comment-1903

            Make an affirmative case and lay out your refutation of the author’s argument – either as a comment or as a diary.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            I am so sorry for my “messaging” failings over the years.

            Please let us know how many years you’ve been involved in your precinct as an elected PC. I look forward to more support from you and the other moderators here at RS “support[ing] efforts of guys like ColdWarrior and Ron Robinson to build from the ground up,” especially concrete examples of how each of you have recruited into the Party where you live more conservatives into the PC ranks.

            Thank you.

            ColdWarrior

          • elayman

            generally not necessarily because they are more partisan or politically active than primary voters.

            Santorum may have gotten where he is through a process that by its very nature excludes active duty in the military, those working second shift, ill, seniors afraid to go out at night in the cold or that aren’t up to an hours long event, those with child care issues, or a host of other matters but he sure as hell won’t win without those groups in the general .

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            Santorum did well in Iowa because he bought and paid for the big socon dude who bussed in voters.

            Actually, the people who show up at caucus sites are pretty ignorant, given how well RonPaul does and the record in Iowa.

          • acat

            Given your posting history, seemed like an obvious question.

            Mew

          • SoFiMil

            Since I have a cold, I’m coughing right now instead of laughing. : )

          • elayman

            and really, really scrambling for the financial resources to compete in two states, I agree what seemed like poor form or an odd strategy at the time turned out to be fully idiotic. Even in the absence of an outright win, and they could well have been victorious, literally showing up for a few weeks could have finished Romney forever, off and officially done at a second tier finish.

            How a Huntsman candidacy can be laughed off with the predicament we are in now is beyond me. Do you want to win with a conservative or what ?

          • trickamsterdam

            Huntsman is has a more conservative record than Romney, and some good ideas, it’s true. I would certainly vote for him over Romney (I’m at the point where I’d vote for one of those life-sized card board cut-outs you see in movie theater lobbies over Romney, though, so I’m maybe not the most rational person in the world when it comes to Mitt Romney).

            But Huntsman is still not the answer to anyone’s prayers (even putting aside that he’s a moderate), because he is still one the worst (especially considering he really has has a successful career) mainstream politicians I’ve ever seen…to the point where his decisions are and were more bizarre than bad.

            He was just on some show this weekend talking about how we need a third Party, and yet at the same time continuing to endorse Romney. I’m not kidding…when Newt, Santorum, Romney screw up, you usually at least understand what they were trying to do…

            For example, Romney’s ridiculous soundbite about the “very poor”, and even more ridiculous comment in the same paragraph about how he thinks 95% of the people in the US are middle class, was embarrassing…but I get it, he was trying to pander to the middle class.

            What is Huntsman trying to do w/some of these appearances?

          • elayman

            I don’t think it was such a bizarre interview, though. The Republican party has for some reason been hijacked and is failing to capitalize on a weak incumbent president. Its surreal really, but the extent of the breakdown wasn’t evident to most observers until SC or beyond. Its unfortunate that there is now no candidate positioned to seriously challenge the president on key issues without unnecessary mud slinging, demonization and partisanship. No time is a better time to get Huntsman’s policy agenda into the political arena. But how ? Wait to be drafted in some capacity and that third party IS me but not without handing the election to the Dems in a walk. Obama ? Out of the question Romney. Icy endorsement, more like an acknowledgement of his obvious advantages, but puts to sleep doubts of being in the game for a position in the current administration.

            Still a damn bummer! GOP seriously needs you. America seriously needs the GOP to realize that it needs you! -P

          • SoFiMil

            I wish Hunstman was on the VA ballot. He’d definitely get my vote. You’re absolutely right. The current situation the party is in with the remaining candidates is not good.

  • naql

    …since the author is so concerned about the disenfranchisement of uniformed service members, he will be relieved to learn that Ron Paul has received more campaign contributions than all of the other candidates combined.

    It appears that, in pursuing the nomination as well as formulating policy, Paul has focused on what matters.

    • naql

      Insert ” from them” after “campaign contributions”

    • joayn

      First, the donor’s say they are employees of one of the branches of the military. If that’s true, they could range from DOD desk jockeys to contractors and not active military as Paul loves to allege. By your claim, that means that 95% don’t support Laup Nor.

      http://www.libertyreborn.com/2012/01/06/ron-pauls-support-among-military-4-4-at-best/

      http://www.redstate.com/kudzu630/2012/01/21/ron-pauls-lack-of-military-support/

      Gotta go now, my employer, the Queen of England is calling …

      • naql

        …because the claim is that Ron Paul has received more donations from military personnel than all other candidates combined. To go off on some half-assed pseudo-scientific “analysis” attempting to calculate what the average contribution must be and then calculating a ratio based on dividing that concocted number by total military personnel, when the author has absolutely no idea what percentage of them contribute to, or support *any* candidate and then magically infer that 95% must support someone other than Ron Paul is just rubbish. How many military personnel support Ron Paul but do not donate? You and the author of that article do not know, so your percentage calculated is meaningless and irrelevant to the original claim, in any case.

        This website shows the top donors to all the candidates. It pretty much speaks for itself:

        http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/contriball.php?cycle=2012

        If you care to apply pseudo-science, or your magic 8-ball, to divine how many people those numbers represent and whether or not they are members of Seal Team 6 or just bureaucratic desk-jockeys, be my guest.

      • naql

        …I don’t know where you dug that lunatic up, but I don’t think anyone (except his fellow nutbags) is going to seriously consider the opinion of a guy who thinks a nuke or two, or ten or twelve, or even a hundred, dropped on civilian population centers is an appropriate response to Palestinians armed with rocks and small mortars:

        http://www.libertyreborn.com/2006/08/10/kill-them-all-let-allah-sort-them-out/

        So, this maniac is the guy you’ve got teaching you advanced pseudo-statistics.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    The Paultards really created a ruckus last time. Many of them had to be escorted out at one point. I expect it to be even worse this time around.

  • Professor de la Paz

    …that deliberately restricts the amount of people whose votes actually matter based on arbitrary guidelines, then your candidate just isn’t non-establishment, he’s non-viable as well. Weak participation is better than the illusion of participation where none exists.

  • CarolT

    We should demand closed primaries, Republicans only can vote in caucus and primaries, and we should end open primaries. I know that the DNC has emailed the unions to go vote against Romney Tuesday to deny a Romney win. I am not for Romney but I don’t like dems voting in republican primaries. This would help with our choice of candidates, it’s a start in the right direction.

    • http://www.reddit.com/user/pi_over_three/ Pi Over Three

      nt

  • aesthete

    for certain Congressional races, where money is less important than motivation, work, and infrastructure — all of which seriously inhibit the lower-profile Senatorial races. Presidential elections are a) high profile, b) national (requiring more than state party infrastructure), and c) require significantly more money than Congressional races.

    Closed primaries with randomly-selected states rather than an ordered progression, as well as party-sanctioned debates with hosts and questions selected by registered Republicans would be ideal, IMO.

    • Bill S

      .

    • acat

      to determine which States go first, second, third, fourth .. and for cryin’ out loud, get the media out of the debates. We need substantive questions, and more revealing cross-talk.

      Mew

      • aesthete

        of “official” RNC debates w/questions selected by the base/the party… but for God’s sake, at least we’d have fluff answers and evasions based on issues of importance to the primary voters, rather than nonsense like that “Coke or Pepsi” question that one of the networks had, or the all important topic of whether Michelle Bachmann submits to her husband or not.

        • acat

          Do you recall, back in the early ’90s, when you could find the Capra Christmas classic on almost every channel? (because someone at Republic Pictures screwed up and didn’t renew copyright …)

          The point I’m after isn’t that too much of a good thing dilutes it, but rather ad money is going to the wrong people.

          If the GOP owns the debates and licenses them – similar to how NASCAR or the NHL own their events and license them to TV networks – then revenue flows in to help general election GOTV efforts, etc. etc.

          No way the campaigns can really object … not if they want party support in the general, anyway … and any non-licensed debate can be skewered as “less credible” – which would give the big-money campaigns (Romney, this year..) an excuse to opt out… reducing the exposure value to small-money campaigns. (the Gingrich-Cain debate was useful to both … but not *that* useful…)

          Mew

      • rightland1111

        I am sick and tired of the Democrats coming in and deciding who the Republican nominee will be. Independents…same thing…if you can’t make up your mind on what platform you agree with…then you will have to wait until election day. That way the MSM does not get to hype the thing.

        I am also sick and tired of Iowa. If you know me…then you know that I supported Perry….all the way and because he did not give them their subsidies…he was not “evangelical” enough. Because Perry rained on their parade concerning his announcement…they wanted him to make it up to them…which he did…too much money spent in Iowa especially when Ethanol was their main thrust…forget the God business…that got lost when they split the vote with Romney who has all but run a “secular campaign”.

        Anyone catch the EPA talking about soil conservation today on Drudge. Want to make a bet they aren’t allowed to grow their corn now because it depletes the soil? Just a thought.

    • trickamsterdam

      But what you say is similar to reforms I’ve thought of. I haven’t posted them because it would take too much time, but it’s a lot easier to post and say “I agree”.

      One thing I will say is “traditionalists” had better learn to adapt or die. Democrats (comparing literally everything to segregation laws) have completely warped States’ Rights to the point where they virtual no longer exist.

      To give an example, when CA passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, Babara Boxer went on Rachel Maddow and said she didn’t understand the CA SC’s opinion not to over-rule it (although one idiot actually did vote to).

      Note: this was the CA SC, not some higher Court. For them to over-rule it, would be like the US SC over-ruling the 1st amendment, just pretending it doesn’t exist. That is, the effective end of the US government, and the literal decent into anarchy. It would have meant similar for CA (no, they’re not into anarchy yet, they just can’t pay their bills, get off their backs, dudes and dudettes!). ;)

      Now, Barbara Boxer’s fairly dumb, very dumb for a Senator…but for her to not know that (and I think she genuinely didn’t), and for Maddow not to correct her (I think does know but didn’t either out of politeness or because she simply desired the amendment [!] be struck down [!]) means we’ve reached a point, where new strategies need to be employed by conservatives and libertarians…yeah, I understand why you want to go back to the Founders, but it’s like fighting against a machine gun w/ muskets…which btw people have actually tried (didn’t work, man. terrible shame what happened to those bros. now pass the doobie.)

      Which is why I disagreed w/ Aesthete on another thread, where he said we should concentrate more on the Congress than the Presidential election to “contain the next President”.

      Presidents can’t be “contained” anymore, and the Supreme Court only can be when its nominees are chosen by a smart President. Period.

      • aesthete

        though the prior administrations, Republican and Democratic, surely haven’t helped us on that count. The President is still bound by treaties signed by prior Congresses, constrained in how much he and his cabinet can spend, and limited in his war-making abilities by Congress, as well. He is also limited by the Supremes when it comes to violations of the Bill of Rights that are too blatant for even such of their ilk to ignore.

        The vast majority of spending emerges from the Congress — the President can submit a budget and veto bills, but that’s it. The President does have a bully pulpit that he can use to his advantage, and can direct his Cabinet appointees to spend money in a certain way — but beyond that, he’s not quite as powerful as all that when limited by an uncompliant Congress, as Clinton was after the Republican sweep. A conservative Congress also sends a signal to the President of what the mood of the country is, and of what his or her party’s base desires.

        At any rate, I don’t see how Santorum, Gingrich, or Romney help when it comes to either rolling back the cult of the Presidency, reducing or even limiting spending, or doing much good on foreign policy issues, so we’re well and truly screwed if the fate of government rests in these gentlemen getting it right.

        • trickamsterdam

          You kinda missed my point.

          There is a “cult” to the Presidency, which is why, for example, people blamed the MayKing Bush 43 for Katrina and the failed crops, or thought Obama should be able to fix the hole in the floor of the Gulf w/ a magic wand.

          I’m talking about real power though. What the President actually has, and part of that is picking the SC Justice nominees, who will be totally unrestrained once they’re on there if they’re not picked right.

          Newt, would use the powers of the Presidency fully (not powers that he takes for himself, but are clearly already there by settled law and custum). It’d only be a question of whether you agreed w/ what he wanted to do. I see him being like a Republican Harry Truman.

          Santorum would do the same thing, except by natural instinct. I don’t think he understands very much. It’s all work ethic, not talent…which could be the trait that enables him to beat Obama, ironically…out least out of these three.

          Romney is a beyond joke, and has become something both more and less. Unelectable, ignorant…almost a naked (but not noble) savage. He can’t be taught anything except in a school-room w/ a hard stick. And since it’s far too late for that, he’s simply not qualified to be President of the United States in literally any way that “qualified” could be defined of described.

          • aesthete

            I think we might be talking past each other a bit.

            The things that I would like a Republican President to do in 2012 (entitlement reform, reduction of spending, writing a reasonable budget, repeal of ObamaCare, repeal of regulations, tax reform) are mostly things that the President and the Congress both need to cooperate on significantly. I don’t see any such initiative coming from today’s Congress, and I see neither the desire nor the ability of our Presidential nominees to initiate the dialogue on entitlements in a meaningful way, much less seal the deal. My crystal ball is showing me a future where these bills die in committee, if they even make it past the President’s lips. (In the case of a President Romney, I highly doubt the likelihood of even that.)

            OTOH, I also see lots of absolute nonsense tying up the next President — specifically, all of our candidates have been beating the war drum wrt Iran, and once that happens, expect lots of DON’T COMPLAIN ABOUT SPENDING APPOINTMENTS OR IMMIGRATION DON’T YOU KNOW WE’RE AT WAR type rhetoric from conservatives. Judges, the restitution of the Mexico City EC, and some miscellaneous agenda items which may or may not get accomplished are about the only thing left to conservatives from their domestic agenda. Given his rhetoric on the 10th and the federal government in general, I don’t trust Santorum on judges — maybe he’ll have a good committee that will pick his judges, I don’t know. That goes double for Mitt Michigan (h/t trickamsterdam) — who has a good, conservative, blue-ribbon committee for judges, but a horrible track record of defending conservatism. I don’t expect him to defend the appointments recommended by his committee. I honestly have no idea what Newt would do wrt judges. I don’t like the anti-trade rhetoric coming from our guys — we’ll probably get some managed trade agreements similar to the other FTAs we have gotten from Obama.

            So yeah — very little of the stuff the President can do unilaterally or with a moderately compliant Congress is stuff that I care about, and the foreign policy I’ve heard from the remaining candidates is simply poppycock. I see Congress as (unfortunately) emaciated, but with a greater marginal change/effort ratio than the Presidency. I’m statistically insignificant in a Presidential election; I’m more capable of effecting change when it comes to Congress.

          • trickamsterdam

            This is certainly a very good point. I guess what I’m trying to say is after looking what this House w/ the huge majority did, I can’t see how having slight control of the Senate (say 51-53 seats, which is what the Rs are looking at best case scenario) really changes things.

            Yeah, Mitch McConnell is wily, and I’m sure he could force the Democrats to make some embarrassing votes as Majority Leader. However Boehner is going to be as much of a dummy as always (seems like a nice guy, but so does Joe Biden, so so what?). And the irony is, the only way he gets removed is if the House is decimated. So we’re either stuck w/ Boehner or a diminished House.

            I think Obama w/ the help of the MSM can always blame virtually anything on the R Congress, which actually also worked in the 90s, it’s just that things were going so well, no one felt the need to change.

            I absolutely trust Santorum on Judges/Justices. With his social views? I definitely think you get Thomas types. Newt might prefer someone like Scalia (since he’s the only man who likes the sound of his voice as much as Newt, there’s a natural alliance there). The main reason I think Romney will be lousy is I don’t think he has the stomach to break the inevitable Democratic filibuster.

            But w/ an R you sort of expect Kennedy at worst, and w/ a D you’re sort of praying for that as the very best. The foreign policy seems to be writing itself. I guess by temperament or idea someone could say Newt or Santorum might be more likely to get us into trouble than Romney or Obama…the thing is I have have such limited respect for Romney (I guess I could be wrong about him, but I don’t think so) that I think he’s literally the kind of guy who would start a war to get his poll numbers up.

            The whole US military would be on the top of Romney’s car instead of the dog.

            I guess the biggest problem,, is without the ability to over-ride the veto, I don’t see how you pass anything, and while not passing anything in the 20s might have been the conservative ideal, in this era w/ automatic increases, it’s not.

            Note: With my insistence on the importance of the Presidency, some people might say “then why do you trash Romney?!”. What those people would never get if I talked to them all night is that Romney has roughly the same chance of being President of the US as Newt does of being president of the Moon. While my personal dislike for Romney is as endless as it is bottomless, what makes him almost unendurable (to me) is that he such a clear loser in the General…and then we have to hear him sneeze out of his ——–, every five minutes, on top of it.

  • jomo2009

    where only primaries are used and delegates are selected as follows: a) proportional representation by congressional district (20%threshold); b) if a candidate gets an overall majority (50%-plus 1) it converts the outcome to winner-take-all. Obviously in a multi-candidate field it would be next to impossible to achieve a majority of the vote (unless it happens to be a candidate’s home state). This would, I believe, deal fairly with all the participants in the early going as they hone their individual message and issues. Once the field begins to be winnowed, however, the person that’s most acceptable to the largest share of voters would emerge as the nominee.

    This should not necessarily freighten constitutional conservatives. The two greatest conservative presidential primaries were Barry Goldwater’s victory in California in 1964 and Ronald Reagan’s win in North Carolina in 1976.

    I apologize in advance for being so long winded.

  • mbauer

    about reforming the entire primary process.

    There is a good article right now at fivethirtyeight.com talking about the different level of boundness delegates have and all the different ways they end up being selected.

    I’d like to see~

    1) Calendar reform. Pick 5 dates and rotate the states that vote on each of those dates. I’d suggest starting with the third Tuesday in March then every two weeks after that.

    2) 100% of delegates represent some form of popular vote. No super delegates. No unbound delegates. Nottah

    Or better yet,

    2.1) Scrap the delegate system. Have every state vote via an instant Run-off voting (IRV). Never will I have to strategically vote with my first selection.
    Either apply IRV at the state level and award points equall to the electoral college value of the state, or apply IRV nationally after all 50 states have voted.

    3) Candidates apply for ballot access nationally. It’s crap that my ballot will only have Ron Paul and Mitt Romney on it. If that had happened nationally, their would have been a revolt.

    3.1) As a requisite for ballot access, each candidate must write a set of white papers or a manifesto that they are accountable to.

    4) All debates MUST be moderated by conservative Republicans. Hell, I’d love to be able to some how become active in the party and involved in determining the moderators.

    4.1) Prior to the narrowing of the field, set a cap of no more than 4 candidates in a debate. If the field has 12 candidates, we’ll have 3 consecutive debates.

    4.2) 1 debate prior to each of the 5 voting dates (which might be 2 or 3 events based on the number of candidates).

    • tngal

      While its true people on both sides have been known to switch over to another line, (some here are former dems,) perhaps that option should be left only for the general.

  • d_lamar

    Our system was not designed to be a democracy. The founding fathers believed that not everyone should be permitted to vote. They established a poll tax to permit only those that had skin in the game to vote. And literacy tests were used in an attempt to allow only those people who had a basic knowledge of the government to vote.

    Now that the court has essentially repealed the 10th amendment, and we have become a welfare state, a democracy certainly cannot long survive. The population will invariably vote to give themselves stuff which other people have earned. This was predicted by our founding fathers.

    The only chance we have to survive is if the 10th amendment is strictly enforced, and a constitutional amendment is adopted which disqualifies anyone from voting if they receive any government benefit.

    Of course, these things will never happen. That is why I am not overly optimistic that our republic will stand much longer.

    • Creedo

      Great post. I truly fear for the future of our republic when the people calling themselves “republicans” start advocating for the ideas of democrats.

      • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

        …at least until you stop telling everyone here how we’re ignorant without sharing your wisdom with us in a reasoned presentation.

        • acat

          before I saw this.

          Mew

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        nt.

    • aesthete

      If you have a feasible way of dismantling universal suffrage and establishing a fair and somewhat foolproof way of selecting for a voter pool that would be intelligent and well-informed, I’m all ears. ATM, the caucuses just encourage a whole lot of nonsense and shenanigans at the Presidential level (though I think they’re pretty useful for Congressional races). While I don’t see anything immoral about Ron Paul and Rick Santorum’s gaming of those systems, they don’t promote transparency and accountability to conservative voters as much as barriers to entry for grassroots campaigns that don’t have the time or inclination to figure out the lachrymose rules surrounding caucuses. In a sense, it’s a simulacrum of government complexity and needless bureaucracy in the case of business regulations.

    • lapert

      It is certainly true that at the founding, participation in the electoral process was deliberately limited. But two mechanisms you mention here, poll tax and literacy tests, were not a part of those limitation.

      Those two methods were introduced to explicitly exclude specific minorities from participation – regardless of a legitimate skin in the game. Literacy tests were initially used in mid-19th century New England states to exclude Irish-Catholics and, along with Poll Taxes were used in the South and elsewhere to keep African Americans from voting.

      It may be the case that we could use these tools to accomplish the goals you suggest – but the way they have been used in the past should serve as a good warning that we may not want to hand them over to government with its propensity for misusing the tools the people give it.

      • d_lamar

        I agree that both of these voting restrictions have been abused in the past. But I submit that so has every other method of casting of votes. From outright bribery, fake identification, fraudulent voter registration, multiple voting, etc, there has never been anywhere near a perfect voting system.

        I still maintain that as long as a voter has a conflict of interest for his vote (voting for a candidate who will give them somebody else’s earnings), there is no possible way that this form of government can survive. It will eventually come to a very ugly end.

        • dajeeps

          I don’t really understand how the complex problems we have can be reduced to such simple solutions as excluding entire swaths of people based on class. It’s unimaginable to me, as I’ve been poor and uneducated at a time in my life, but was never tempted to vote for handouts, even when it certainly would have made things easier for me; and they were there to be had, but I never indulged. I don’t think the problem is the condition of the people, and I lay out Nancy Pelosi’s district as an example. Those people are poor, illiterate?

          I think the problem is that people of all walks of life just didn’t pay attention, and still, even when we are getting close to the brink, there are many who don’t. We think we’re doing good to get ~50-60% turnout.

          I think Thomas Jefferson nailed it when he said:

          “…It can never be too often repeated, that the time for fixing every essential right on a legal basis is while our rulers are honest, and ourselves united. From the conclusion of this war we shall be going down hill. It will not then be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves, but in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore, which shall not be knocked off at the conclusion of this war, will remain on us long, will be made heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion. “

      • aesthete

        in that there are plenty of folks who use non-standard English/slang, but are nonetheless informed and logical voters. I would prefer to see a very basic current events/civics test similar to (but shorter than) the one that immigrants have to take while being naturalized. No more than five basic and randomly-selected questions about basic constitution of government (i.e., what the branches are) and current events (who is the current President?).

        • lapert

          I’m just imagining that state legislators would start slipping in questions designed to weed out those unlikely to vote for the incumbent. Like, what is your state senators favorite salad dressing – in other words, I don;t trust them.

          • aesthete

            at limiting the franchise. I do, however, think that it’s something worth looking into. IIRC, Hong Kong is ruled by a council of ~1000-2000, and has managed to maintain a system of ordered liberty. It’s an interesting problem from a public choice perspective, and I wonder what the equilibrium would be under different systems. I am open to a different mix of democratic and un-democratic components, including franchise limitations — at least in theory. It doesn’t seem likely to me that universal franchise always results in the freest systems.

          • acat

            Just to throw another data point out there…

            I do think the franchise is currently *too* open. Laperts’ point is well taken, everything left to the politicians will end up political… so perhaps literacy is the wrong angle.

            What say you to requiring people to file a 1040EZ to be able to vote? Simply require the IRS to mail a “Ballot Access Card” to every SSN over 18 on a given 1040, listing name and address. You go to vote, you have to give ‘em your card to get a ballot.

            Mew

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            The one that reads:

            1) How much income did you have last year?

            2) What is your bank account number for electronic withdrawal of this sum?

            Once you submit this, the government will gladly let you vote…

          • trickamsterdam

            In addition to the fact that it could be easily killed in Congress by pointing to the Iraqi War Veteran (or NYC cop) who takes a year off to move back in w/ his parents and write a novel on his experiences, it’s probably a terrible idea.

            The educated and the tax payers (top 50%) are often voting for Democrats. I’m not kidding. I think the idea would have almost precisely the opposite effect that you seem to think it would.

            Except…oh, I see…we’re to let the stay at home moms vote because their husbands work. I like your posts acat, but LOL on this one. ;)

          • acat

            not filing a 1040. In either of your sample cases, there’s either some residual income (government benefits – 1099g, or interest on bank balances – 1099int) to report and/or there’s the possibility of getting some money back via the EITC.

            As for the top 50% voting Dem, that’s a valid point statistically – but it gets more interesting if you look at the ages – how many of those college-educated high-income-earning Dems personally remember Jimmy Carter, i.e. how many are (now) over 50… ? I’m also under the impression this varies by region.

            And yes, we let the soccer moms vote .. because they should be voting GOP based on 401k and checking account issues. If they’re not, then .. it sorta shows why the GOP has been losing, eh?

            The only ones this disenfranchises are the ones who don’t file tax forms, i.e. those who don’t have legit jobs/income.. dead voters, for example.

            Mew

          • trickamsterdam

            The problem w/the Internet is its a great way to communicate w/ people of similar bent you’d otherwise never meet, but a lot of it’s done while multitasking…and the ideas often deserve more than that (just re-reading my old posts and seeing the typos and transposed words is quite embarrassing…but in this case the main idea didn’t come across either).

            Note: Sometimes (not often) the transposed words or typos make it better…for example, in a recent post I meant to say that Romney was “beyond a joke” and somehow it came out as he’s a “beyond joke”. LOL. That’s perfect. He is a “beyond-joke” (both more and less than a real person and more and less than a punch-line).

            But, let me say, I get what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to get people to have a stake in this thing, so they take it more seriously. It’s similar to M. Bachmann saying everyone should have to pay at least one dollar in Fed Income Taxes, so they feel a part of it. I agree w/ that (although in many cases it should literally be only one dollar).

            But I guess what I was trying to say was:

            1) It’ll never pass (for obvious reasons)
            2) I think its effect on the electorate would either be a wash or to move it left. Although, it’s possible, w/ more skin in the game it would move right. Anyway, the effect is unpredictable.
            3) If somehow it did pass, and regardless of if it moved the American electorate left or right, I just seeing it increasing the tax code and IRS. You’ve got some 30 year old drug dealer who can vote because he’s listed as a “dependent” by his mother, and maybe some couple that have basically a traditional marriage (e.g., Brad + Angelina), but who aren’t married and what do you do about the taxes and the vote?

            Mostly, my problem, though, is that it can’t be passed. This is definitely the kind of place to talk about ideas, a kind of amateur think tank. So while I understand where you’re coming from (even thought I wouldn’t vote for it), and think it’s totally appropriate to talk about it, I just think that it should be acknowledged from the beginning that it’s not going to happen (whatever its merits)

          • acat

            .. and the nice part is the Dems seem eager to run straight to it…

            Get more obvious about vote fraud – get it sufficiently into the open that it offends Joe and Jane Sixpack to where they’re voting just to keep the fraudsters frustrated.

            It’s a cheesy reverse-psych ploy .. but if the evidence from voter anger regarding the fraud that *has* made it into public view makes it look potentially viable.

            Mew

            (it’s buried in the short novel “Empire”, if you’re looking)

          • lapert

            Interestingly, Hong Kong is moving toward universal suffrage with I believe 2017 as the goal for the equivalent of the presidency.The process as set out in ’97 was to be a slow movement rather than all at once.

            I wonder how easy it is to rollback suffrage once given – is there any example in history of it being taken back without violence?

          • aesthete

            explicitly without some sort of major catastrophe that could be widely blamed on universal suffrage — at the very least, it would have to be justified as something in keeping with the principles of universal suffrage. There are too many indirect linkages and other culprits for that to happen. It could happen in more illiberal countries — many of the “one man, one vote, one time” SSRs, Belrussia today, Venezuela to an extent, etc happened relatively peacefully at the time of transition. Whether it could happen under democratically-designed law in a liberal country in a straightforward fashion is more debatable. I have my doubts, but I could see certain things being removed from the hands of the general public and into the hands of more illiberal institutions, or moves towards having documentation in order to vote, as roundabout ways of limiting the damage of universal suffrage.

        • acat

          Would you accept requiring the voter to know who the current holder of a given office is (multiple choice, natch) as an acceptable indicator of “sufficient literacy” wrt that office?

          “Name one of the two current U.S. Senators from Illinois”
          (fill one oval below)
          ( ) Dick Durbin
          ( ) Roland Burris
          ( ) Mark Kirk
          ( ) Dwight Eisenhower

          Get this wrong, and your vote for Senator is voided!

          I’d rather see “can pick out the three branches of government” .. but on a multiple-choice, it’s only gonna have one outlier….

          “Name the three branches of government”
          (fill the correct ovals below)

          ( ) Judicial (court system)
          ( ) Executive (President, Governor, Mayor)
          ( ) Legislative (Congress, state legislature, school board)
          ( ) Journalistic (PBS, NPR, NYT, CBS, NBC, FOX)

          It seems to be almost too easy….

          Mew

          • d_lamar

            NT

          • d_lamar

            That would eliminate Obama from voting.

          • acat

            (Cheshire grin)

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            With their having decided to shirk their constitutional role in favor of showering themselves and their campaign donors with other peoples’ money while allowing the President and the media (and the courts as well) to actually operate the government.

          • vangoghssister

            perhaps everyone should be required to pass the same citizenship test that our new citizens must pass. How many people do you know who could pass it? I’m not positive I could pass it 100%. Personally, I think all high school seniors should have to pass it in order to graduate.

            I have to admit, caucuses confuse me. Do they count or do they not count as far as awarding delegates? Do some count and not others? I don’t live in a caucus state and find it all kind of bewildering. For instance, why would any state allow people to change their voter registration from one party to the one being caucused the same day of the caucus? Didn’t someone bus in people from other states to vote in Iowa (or did I dream that)? Why would any state allow *anyone* to vote in a caucus? Isn’t that kind of self-defeating? It seems to me that all caucuses and primaries should be open only to those registered for the party involved.

            How did we get here? Why do we only pay lip service when Dems lie, cheat and bribe their way to victory? How did our own process get so screwed up?

    • naraht

      Can you please give any examples that you have of Poll Taxes in before say 1830? Everything I’ve seen about them are post Civil War.

  • ralphdaily

    We wouldn’t be having this discussion if there were a strong candidate rather than searching for the least bad. Normally whet the incumbent is running for the second term, the first string stays out. But 2012 should be a real chance at a win, so don’t know why the slate is thin.

    • cbartlett

      All of the could-be strong, good, conservative candidates aren’t touching this process with a 10-foot pole because of the24-hour media circus and the character shredding. Can’t say I blame them. We are definitely left choosing between the least-worst of the second tier. Unfortunatley, the stakes are really high this time. If Obamacare survives and we get one more liberal on the SC, there is little hope for this republic’s survival.

  • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

    The two main points here are that the extended primary is bad, and that democracy in choosing a candidate is good. I don’t necessarily agree with either of those. Also, you say that caucuses have not been run well and cannot be run well because they are run by political parties.

    But the extended primary is allowing more people to participate in the process, and even more importantly, a greater geographical and temporal diversity of people. Voters (caucus goers) in Iowa in January have a little different perspective than those in Maine in February. The longer the process goes on, the wiser those choosing the nominee will be, seeing how the candidates make their cases in a variety of environments.

    So if sloppy caucuses tend to extend the process to more states and more people, isn’t that, by your way of thinking, good?

    The alternative to the long primary is somehow to select our candidate all at once at the beginning or the end, which means some combination of smoke-filled rooms and closely grouped primary days,

    Missing from the analysis is the larger point that states have been pushing their primary dates up as much as possible to try to have more influence in the presidential selection. The proportional delegate selection and beauty contest / later caucus fiasco is a result of that.

    Further, a demand for instantaneous, error-free results seems like a rather weak reason to move to direct elections, as any number of counterexamples from Minnesota (2008 Senate), Florida (2000 President) and Illinois (pick a year) should demonstrate. Direct elections, that is, are neither perfect in accuracy nor admirably speedy in every case.

    Currently incumbents control the primary process. Moving to direct elections would not change that, and in fact would lock it in place, as the advantages of incumbency are especially pronounced for a direct election.

    The answer: let each state have its own method. Let everyone attempt to manipulate the method and bring to bear their own combination of ideas and personal popularity. Allow for, and indeed, rejoice in. the messy process of Republicanism.

    Moving more control of the process away from the political parties toward government is, in my view, a far greater danger.

    • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

      …or should it be left up to the state party (within constitutional bounds, of course)?

      Or is that also up to each state to decide?

      And is there a way to prevent partisan game-playing at the legislature level to interfere with this, or is that an unavoidable element in any process?

      • http://teapartisan.wordpress.com Loren Heal

        There will be problems with any system we choose. The best idea, then, is to hope that diversity, and imitation of success, will improve the process over time.

        • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

          States as laboratories rather than a Federally-imposed one-size-fits-all imposed from above.

          (Creedo: nota bene)

    • http://www.sorendayton.com Soren Dayton

      I think that you miss my point. The RNC could demand that the state parties make sure that more Republicans participate in the process by not allowing primaries.

      I think that the extended primary is actually reasonably helpful because it is showing the strengths and weaknesses of the candidates.

  • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

    We can fix the party by beating the establishment and stopping it from being captured by people like Ron Paul supporters. And we can force it to be accountability to the will of voters by using a primary.”

    You hit the nail on the head. If enough of us conservatives can find our way into participating in actual local party politics at our respective local party committees we have a hope of changing our party processes from within the Party itself. It’s the only way to change the Party and it’s a helluva lot of fun to boot.

    We’ve all been pretty busy here in AZ, and in my city, Tempe, the last few weeks. First, we’ve had our presidential candidates’ debate, Tuesday is our Presidential Preference Primary and the early ballots for our March 13 Tempe primary election for our city council and mayoral races have been mailed out. That means making some phone calls to Republican voters and going door-to-door. We’ve been targeting the Republicans who vote 50% or less in the primary and general elections — and, on average, here in Maricopa County, Arizona, that’s about 35% of Republicans. So, we want to see if we can “nudge” some of these folks to the polls. The good news is all of the “Permanent Early Voters” I called on Friday who fall into this 35% in my precinct told me that they either had already voted their absentee ballot or would do so for certain. I hope this is indicative of a general trend!

    To get an idea of how fun and interesting involvement in local party committees can be, please take a few minutes to explore some of our local committee web sites.

    Here’s a link to my Legislative District Committee’s web site:

    www.d17r.org

    Here’s a couple more:

    www.district21az.org/

    ld20gop.com/

    Soren, thanks for this Diary and for your involvement in the Young Republican National Federation and at Redstate.

    Thanks again,

    ColdWarrior

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …which preclude certain unfair practices.

    [1]–Literacy Tests, because they conjure images of past-prejudice.
    [2]–Caucuses, because they limit access by those who can’t attend.
    [3]–Non-Republicans, because they aren’t dedicated to the best.

    They could also ensure that election of delegates who are pledged to a given candidate on the first ballot, should they so-declare.

  • Adjoran

    After the McGovern Commission reforms in the Democratic Party, instituted after the 1968 Convention debacle, pressure mounted on the GOP to install similarly democratic primaries to take the power away from party officeholders and local bosses and activists. Because we held the White House, those reforms only began to affect our nomination process in earnest in 1980.

    What is curious about our switch to the most democratic nomination process in the world (we even reserve far fewer seats for party officeholders and activists than the Democrats) is that it coincides with the tendency to choose the “next in line” candidate. While people are convinced this is something the “Establishment” pursues, the fact is while the process was in the hands of the power brokers we only nominated “next in line” candidates twice – Taft in 1908 and Nixon in 1960.

    But the advent of popular choosing gave “next in line” nods to Reagan in 1980, Bush in 1988, Dole in 1996, and McCain in 2008. Only G.W. Bush broke the trend in 2000, but he’s been the only one so far.

    How can we blame “the Establishment” for what is clearly being done by the democratic will of the people?

    I would argue primaries, especially in states with open primaries or easily switched registration, are actually less reflective of the party wisdom than caucuses or – better yet – the old system of local and state conventions would be.

    When conservatives buy into the false premises of the left, such as that “democracy” is always the best way to settle anything (except where the popular will opposes leftist ideas), we betray our heritage.

    • cbartlett

      I think next-in-line process happens more now because we have 24-hour cable news promoting it. They are constantly (around the clock) telling the sheeple – who is electable and who isn’t, who has money to continue campaigning and who doesn’t, who is conservative and who isn’t, etc. Then they interview all sorts of experts with all sorts of “credentials” to tell us even more. There are entirely too many uninformed voters that don’t do their homework and believe everything they hear. Sometimes it’s just the last thing they (or their Uncle Fred)hear and then vote accordingly. What a process…..

  • sethellis

    Utah has a somewhat unique system in this respect. It has both, and they both matter. The caucas determines who is on the primary ballot. A candidate must show a certain level of support at the state convention to get on the primary ballot. If they get over 60% at the convention they can skip the convention.

    This is why at the moment I do not support Carl Wimmer for UT-4. There is a chance he could get that 60%, and skip the primary. I want him to have to fight it out in a primary where he can be better vetted. If he proves himself then I’ll vote for him in the primary.

  • http://redmerrimack.blogspot.com/ charliebravoNH

    The presidential primary here has candidates paying the Sec Of State or runs the whole process $1000. The delegates are chosen by each campaign and put on a list. The amount of delegates is awarded based on the percentage of the primary vote above 10%. The local parties are completely outside in this process. It is so bad the Huntsman campaign set up shop here with the sole purpose of winning a Republican primary with independents and undeclared Democrats. A primary system has its own flaws too like dead people on the registration rolls.

    I think we are jumping the gun on the caucus system. The whole process of delegate selection hasn’t happened yet. Everything out there from caucus states is based on the results of precinct or municipal caucuses.

  • mikelindell2

    Newt Gingrich was up by 20 points nationally and in Iowa before he or his SuperPAC spent a dime. It was the SuperPAC of Romney that flooded the airwaves with negative ads that brought Newt down. So without Super PACS, the correct argument is that Newt would probably be our nominee already. It’s best to know stuff before you write.

    • http://www.sorendayton.com Soren Dayton

      Romney wouldn’t have spent campaign money on it?

      The argument that without SuperPACs, Newt would be our nominee suggests that the ads wouldn’t have been run. Of course they would, just differently.

      • mikelindell2

        The ads would have been much less vicious and run in lesser volume if Mitt Romney had to assign his name to each ad. More importantly, you imply that Newt would not have gained any momentum without his SuperPAC which is demonstrably false. Without a single SuperPAC ad, Newt was winning in Iowa and nationally. It could also be easily argued that his victory in South Carolina was based on strong debate performances and an embrace of his proposals. To look at the money that Restore Our Future (Romney PAC) spent and then say that it is not a major reason for where he is today is ludicrous.

  • hwgood

    … no more open caucuses or primaries where anyone can vote. I live in upstate New York and have not been able to vote for a conservative candidate in years. They are wiped off the ballots in open primaries long before the time comes for the New Yorkers to have their say.

  • radicalrighty

    Then some dinky little state, by using a calender, doesn’t choose our candidate, or decide who must get out.

    • http://www.sorendayton.com Soren Dayton

      That would privilege money over grassroots. Having some places that allow retail and grassroots politics gives an option for non-money candidates to get a shot, like Santorum or Huckabee.

      • jarrod21

        Then please explain why Iowa and New Hampshire are so special that they get to exert influence so far beyond their actual importance and that should be okay?

    • Lesstressrx

      You are absolutely right. We don’t need all these caucuses that take time and lots of money. Have a primary for the entire country on one day, just like in the general and that will be that. It definitely needs to be simplified. Something that government has no clue of how to do.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    …is not undermined by my overall proposal [supra]:

    [1]?Literacy Tests, because they conjure images of past-prejudice.
    [2]?Caucuses, because they limit access by those who can?t attend.
    [3]?Non-Republicans, because they aren?t dedicated to the best.

    They could also ensure election of delegates who are pledged to a given candidate on the first ballot, should they so-declare.

    *

    This would not affect the empowerment of individual states to schedule elections independently, remembering that the key-concept behind holding early elections in smaller states is to allow for low-cost competitions during the early weeks.

    This would also allow for the voter to balance fealty to a candidate with loyalty to a delegate [and would not preclude an individual to run without having issued a first-ballot commitment]…without unduly impeding potential flexibility @ a contested convention.

  • greenpoint

    Only people who can see Russia from their igloos or homes should be allowed to vote for President. Before you knock it, name the last time Alaska voted for the Democratic candidate for President.

  • enid

    Here’s an off-the-wall thought: The process is so broken at this point that I think we should by-pass the establishment, power brokers, elites, party activists and pundits. Let’s nominate the whole ticket from the floor (grassroots). How does a Ryan/Rubio ticket sound?

  • chuckludd

    I wish I had a caucus in my State. It seems much more participatory and it allows party activists to be involved versus a flood of people who are nominally Republicans. And frankly from a strategic perspective, it helps conservative candidates get a leg up. An “all primary system” would go to the richest campaign.

  • http://www.doctor-bob.biz rsklaroff

    http://www.redstate.com/rsklaroff/2012/02/27/gop-primary-process-for-potus-reform/

    Consider accepting:

    [1]?Delegate-Candidates can choose to announce [binding] pledge to vote for a given candidate on the first ballot.
    [2]?RNC organizes/structures Debates [no more than one every fortnight], with optional candidate- appearance thereat.
    [3]?State-level GOP?s determines final-rules [using AEI-structure as non-binding model.

    Consider rejecting:

    [1]?Literacy Tests, because they conjure images of past-prejudice.
    [2]?Caucuses, because they limit access by those who can?t attend.
    [3]?Non-Republicans, because they aren?t dedicated to the best.

    *

    This would not affect the empowerment of individual states to schedule elections independently [Federalism], remembering that the key-concept behind holding early elections in smaller states is to allow for lower-cost competitions during the early weeks.

    This would also allow for the voter to balance fealty to a candidate with loyalty to a delegate [but would not preclude an individual to run without having issued a first-ballot commitment]; this would not unduly impede potential flexibility @ a contested convention.

  • wumingren

    The caucus system is simply not understood by the vast majority of voters, but it is well understood by the hyper-active minority. It is how the RINOs took over in the first place, and it is how the Paulites are attempting to take over now. Victory goes to those who show up.

    I have heard too often from newcomers to the political process that the Tea Party candidates sent to Washington, D.C. in 2010 let them down. Their only response? “Go Anti-Incumbent: Throw them all out!” The fools do not understand that it takes time, one grueling election at a time, to put in place the sorts of people that you want representing you. There simply were not enough Tea Party types elected in 2010 to make much of a difference in political outcomes, though their presence has help change the dialogue. When there is a conservative President, backed by a conservative Legislature, we will see the policy changes this nation needs to survive. So long as a progressive President maintains veto power, you cannot blame a handful of conservative legislators for failing to meet your objectives.

    Politics is a process, not an event. The process is long and arduous, beginning long before a caucus or Primary Election. People must find qualified candidates to represent them. They must convince them to run for office, and they must support them with time and money. Those with caucuses to attend must get completely involved and pursue the process to its end, which goes well beyond marking a non-binding straw ballot. Here in my state, I have become a delegate for my Precinct, but I will need to go to my Senate District Convention on March 10, where I hope to be selected as a delegate to move on to the Congressional District Convention. And if I make it that far, I hope to be selected as a delegate to go on to the State GOP Convention. From there, I would hope to go to the National GOP Convention as a delegate. This is an incredible investment in time and money (travel expenses and registration fees), but it is what RINOs do, and it is what Paulites are doing. If all you did was vote in a straw poll, you have done nothing.

    Sadly, most voters think that politics is an event: Show up in even-numbered years to vote in November. Then they complain about the lousy choice they have for a candidate. They’ll brashly proclaim, “I’m not going to vote for the ‘lesser of two evils!’ I’m going to stay home!” The fact is, they have already made the decision to stay home by failing to become involved and stay involved in the process. These people stay home, saying they’re registering a “protest vote,” as if their missing ballots mean anything. Worse, by staying home, they forfeit their votes on every other race held during that election. That’s how Congressional and Senate seats are lost to the opposition! Instead of sending Tea Party reinforcements to the beleaguered ranks already in the Legislature, they’ll complain all the louder that they have no representation and even call for throwing the baby out with the bath water. Fools!

    Politics is a process, not an event. Find out how the process works, and stop acting like children. Take action. Stay involved. Work hard. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

    • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

      CW

    • cbartlett

      n/t

  • SFDennis

    As someone who participated in both the 2008 and 2012 Nevada GOP caucuses, I simply could not agree more.

    I refer any and all to my blog which I wrote immediately after the conclusion of the 2012 GOP caucus here in Las Vegas (Clark County, Nevada):
    http://restoretheusa.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/nevada-gop-caucus/

    The management of the caucuses here this year, as in 2008, was just short of a joke. The primary system is far better, and encourages far more participation than the outdated, and poorly run, caucus system.

    It’s definitely time for a change.

  • mort

    To the poster who said we should forma third party, I say nix, that is in the wrong direction. There should be no parties. Parties are only mentioned in the Constitution in the amendment concerning the election of the VP.
    To the poster who wants all the primaries the same day: Right on!
    All qualified candidates are on the ballot in every state, all voters may cast ballots (ID’d by SSN based on per capita or local income tax records in their voting district – not registered with any party affiliation), TOP TWO vote getters run off in November, even if they are of the same political ideology – doesn’t matter whether they were once REP, DEM, GREEN, PURPLE,CONSTITUTIONAL or IND.

  • ariyosef

    Seriously,
    WHO should really be a voter?

    One who is mentally disabled?
    Unable to read?
    Permanently unemployed – BY CHOICE.
    We are in contemporary debate about convicted felons?
    Lets get really real. What’s worse. Rehabed felons or
    IDIOTS? MOB Rule socialist Mental cases (OW’s) etc.

    If one doesn’t even know what party Nancy Pelosi belongs to or who she is?

    Personally, I will trust Ron Paul’s delegates to make wiser decisions than even Republicans who failed to caucus.
    EVEN Much more than Obama’s Acorn, socialist and American hater types.
    Time to give Paul supporters more credit than these, our true enemies.
    They are NOT anarchists. They are for Liberty and Freedom Less Goverment and Much less Federalism Control.
    Thank goodness!
    Cause they will be players in a Brokered Convention which will likely happen. Especially as Mittens looses his $ claws to greater awareness of how thin his “conservative” New Clothes…
    Awfully close to the NAKED Emperor