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Washington Post Pans High Speed Rail


Last week we covered an Obama regime Winning The Future moment, their shameless boosterism of high speed rail as though our national future depended upon it.

Even though the regime has proposed to flush another $53 billion into what can only be described as the vanity project from Hell it appears commonsense has taken control. Three governors, Rick Scott (FL), Scott Walker (WI), and John Kasich (OH) have opted to not take federal grants for high speed rail.

Surprisingly, the Washington Post’s editorial board, who, to the best of my knowledge, has never come out against federal spending for any public works project, pans the idea.

PRESIDENT OBAMA’S fiscal 2012 budget includes $8 billion for high-speed rail next year and $53 billion over six years. In the president’s view, the United States needs to spend big on high-speed rail so that we can catch up with Europe, Japan – and you-know-who. “China is building faster trains and newer airports,” the president warned in his State of the Union address. But of all the reasons to build high-speed rail in the United States, keeping up with the international Joneses may be one of the worst. In fact, experience abroad has repeatedly raised questions about the cost-effectiveness of high-speed rail.

In a statement that is going to bring tears to the eyes of Tom Friedman, the Post notes that Communist China’s high speed rail is a great deal for wealthy foreigners but not so much for anyone else.

China would seem to be an especially dubious role model, given the problems its high-speed rail system has been going through of late. Beijing just fired its railway minister amid corruption allegations; this is the sort of thing that can happen when a government suddenly starts throwing $100 billion at a gargantuan public works project, as China did with rail in 2008. Sleek as they may be, China’s new fast trains are too expensive for ordinary workers to ride, so they are not achieving their ostensible goal of moving passengers from the roads to the rails. Last year, the Chinese Academy of Sciences asked the government to reconsider its high-speed rail plans because of the system’s huge debts.

And they arrive at the same conclusion that anyone who has studied the issue:

When it comes to high-speed rail, Europe, Japan and Taiwan have two natural advantages over every region of the United States, with the possible exception of the Northeast Corridor – high gas taxes and high population density. If high-speed rail turned into a money pit under relatively favorable circumstances, imagine the subsidies it would require here. Every dollar spent to subsidize high-speed rail is a dollar that cannot be spent modernizing highways, expanding the freight rail system or creating private-sector jobs. The Obama administration insists we dare not lag the rest of the world in high-speed rail. Actually, this is a race everyone loses.

At a time that requires retrenchment in spending we can’t afford vanity projects that have no significance beyond trying to build a legacy. We especially can’t afford vanity projects that are nothing but money sumps. If anyone discovers how to build and operate high speed rail at a break even rate we should be there taking notes. In the meantime there is no reason to play in this fool’s game.

COMMENTS

  • Steve Summers

    I think I’m ready to come to the conclusion on this question. Obama is stupid. His obsession with things like high speed rail prove that he’s NOT a smart person. He’s one of the stupidest people who have EVER been put in a position of leadership in ANY country, and I’m dismayed that there are so many idiots in the USA that he got elected at all.

    In fact, I think he may well be the world’s best example of what’s wrong with the idea of “affirmative action”. He is where he is not because he’s intelligent, or a born leader, or whatever, but because he’s been given undeserved opportunities all his life BECAUSE he’s black. If he’d ever been evaluated on whether he was actually qualified, he’d be sweeping the halls of some union hall.

    • Stan(ley) Pruss

      You leave out the third choice, a natural for the Chicago machine. Follow the money.

      • cam1

        0bama. He is, as you say, intelligent in an abstract way, however he is a phenomenal politician. He knows how to use his bully pulpit, unlike his predecessor. He has the press on his side. He uses radical street hustling like the pro he is. The proof is in his unbelievable approval rating of over 50%.

    • streiff

      I have no doubt about his intelligence, in an abstract way, but I do think his political savvy is close to nonexistent.

      • Flagstaff

        to doubt his other practical intelligence, they always add, “But he’s a master of politics.”

        I agree with you (except about the intelligence, which I doubt), unless we don’t know his goals.

    • Common_Cents

      Look at his past(umm what we know of it), he has been trained and prepped to do exactly what he is doing now. When you sleep with dogs you do get fleas. Hardly from stupidity.

      • Flagstaff

        They can be trained to do many tricks, but they really show their intelligence when they refuse to follow orders, or when they get me to do what they want done.

        I don’t think Obama is stupid by any means. I’m not sure that he’s anything more than average, though. After all, he is invested in liberal theology, and he hasn’t done a thing to demonstrate an above-average ability in anything except possibly persistence.

        It’s curious that his college records are hidden. Or am I wrong about that?

        • streiff

          that throwing “affirmative action” at Obama is just not useful. No matter what we think about him, we have to give him credit from going from undistinguished state senator to undistinguished president in just a few years.

          I think we’re now exploring the limits of his competence and his interest in the job.

          • Flagstaff

            is inviting charges of you-know-what, which just sidelines the debate about competence and purpose.

  • Raven

    Hong Kong and one in Japan, I forget which one.

    Both are privately owned and operated and were Built by private investors.

    If high-speed rail is so great everywhere, then why aren’t the guys who are making a profit on those 2 lines doing so in the rest of the world?

    • streiff

      are Tokyo-Osaka and Paris-Lyon. I don’t know if either are privately owned. Someone asserted the other day that the Moscow-St.Petersburg route is also profitable but the World Bank research on the subject doesn’t mention that line.

      • acat

        built-in passenger bases – many folk who would need to go from one city to the other with some regularity.

        The only equivalents in the U.S. appear to be in the northeast corridor. (Boston-New York-Washington)

        One important detail – thanks to the way Amtrak was legislated into existence, it requires congressional approval for a rail company to set up passenger service…. If this little quibble were removed, it’d be a much different playing field.

        Mew

        • nessa

          Gov’t imposed tolls are really only another form of subsidy, make it too expensive to drive and viola! Suddenly your high-speed rail is profitable! It’s certainly the kind of thing our legislators would jump at the chance to do, they’re already getting their wish of higher gas prices, we’ll be at Obama’s target of $4 a gallon by this time next year.

          • http://www.plumbbobblog.com Plumb_Bob

            Automobiles proliferated in the US because the government subsidized them by building “free” public highways — free, as is “You don’t have to pay directly for using them, they’re paid by general taxes.” This government support for autos and trucks is what stunted the growth of trains in the US. Since the result was the sprawling of the population base, trains are no longer a viable option in the US.

            The population spread might reverse if the roads charged a fee for use that allocated the cost of the roads fairly to those who use them. That’s the only way rail could ever develop here in the states.

          • prior21us

            Federal and state gas taxes! These are supposed to go for the maintenance of highways and roads. Just in CA, there are 37 million people. Lets say there are 18 million cars, trucks or motorcycles. The gas tax is $.17 in CA, not counting the federal tax, which I think is .15 or somewhere around there. Just using the CA tax and a conservative average of 3 gallons per day of fuel is over $15 million dollars a day in revenue. Where in the hell does that go? Certainly not in our roads. If you have ever driven the fwys out here you would know. Now I didn’t research these numbers, but I can’t be that far off. So, yeah, WE do pay our fair share for the use of the roads, They shouldn’t HAVE to be paid by any general taxes.

            prior2

          • acat

            http://www.chicagogasprices.com/USA_Tax_Map.aspx

            Looks to me like every gallon in Cali comes with over $0.60 in taxes. Now, some of that’s local sales tax that doesn’t go for roads, but still.

            Illinois is right up there with ya.

            Mew

          • acat

            Chicago and the East Coast (and Oklahoma, oddly enough) have lots of miles of them. The PA Turnpike is a rather early example.

            The Eisenhower expressway system, which might be what you’re talking about, was funded as part of beefing up national defense, making it easier to get troops and equipment from one part of the country to another. See also the subsidies that FedEx and UPS get for being willing to drop everything and fly military cargoes. That’s also why the rumor that every couple miles there has to be a long straight section that can be used as an emergency runway…

            Mew

          • Raven

            And knew that without improvements, a Single attack in or around an obscure town in Western PA would absolutely Cripple this nation.
            Even With the highway system, the amount of freight that would be halted by such an attack would still do tremendous harm.

            For further info, research a little town called “Altoona, PA”

  • Flagstaff

    government CAN’T be the driving force behind such a project–government is never interested in its projects paying their own way. It’s always interested in taking money from taxpayers and spending it on favored constituencies, in this case big spenders in New York and Florida and Chicago and the railway unions, etc.

    The Apollo Project, which the administration would use to call me wrong, was different, in that those who benefited from it were all of us, not just the folks in Cape Canaveral and Houston (although they did benefit a bit more). And now it’s gone, which NEVER happens with things like Amtrak or HSR.

  • fpete13527

    Here in Florida, multitudes of liberal progressive Republicans, such as John Mica, and counterparts in the Florida State and County Legislatures, are attacking Gov Scott and Floridians for nixing the unwanted HSR initiative.

    Gov Scott has been courageously doing EVERYTHING that the people in Florida put him in office to do….to include stopping High Speed Rail. Gov Scott gets the highest marks in my book.

    AS you point out…even the WAPO sees the complete foolishness of rail.

    The Republicans in the Florida legislature, at Federal, State, and County levels need to get clear that if you are among those presenting this disgraceful and insulting attitude against the REMOVAL of ALL rail projects, then you need to start getting your desk cleaned out NOW. You will not be here another term. That’s a promise.

    • bobmontgomery
      • bobmontgomery

        Hit the wrong button. There are many Republican officeholders at the state and local level who are still in the touchy-feely mold, having matriculated at the same time as their liberal brothers and studied the same old enviro-whacko, multi-culti crap in school. Sometimes the urge to be liked and go along and not be seen as mean-spirited is all powerful. Republican voters in Indiana returned the Republicans to a majority in the Indiana House this year, and the Speaker turned around and announced he was appointing Democrats to committee chairmanships, saying “The people want us to work together.” No they don’t.

        • fpete13527

          Everything that I am beginning to engage in, from city council level up to State and Federal, is flooded with the things you just stated.

          It’s all nicey progressive and dont buck the forced liberal media and liberal government narrative of more spending, bigger government solutions, reach across the isle, and anything other than a principled conservative stand……like Scott and Wisc Gov are doing.

          IMO, we MUST change that mindest and put new people in office, like Scott, who will take a principled stand…and fight…..NOT get along.

          • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

            I contend that even needed but expensive transportation improvements should not be done now, given the debt and deficits crisis.

  • jtlfromfredmd

    for his inspiration in coming up with his agendas and that is across the Atlantic to places like Germany, Italy, England, France and others. Those are his guiding lights and he is merely lassoing them and dropping them here in the USA. He doesn’t dream this stuff up in his sleep.

    • streiff

      apparently he admires the ChiComs as much as Thomas Friedman.

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • whiskey_sierra

    Want more rail? Why not ask why more entrepreneurs are not wanting to build projects?

    What insane regulations and restrictions are now in place that make it impossible to build a new rail line.

    I have heard that if we had the government we had today we would have NEVER expanded west or had any of the rail we have today.

    Remove all the crazy regulations, environmental restrictions, etc.. and maybe you might see someone start a new rail line.

  • Common_Cents

    Automobiles(independent transportation)=freedom

    Rail lays the foundation for left wing control fantasies. Rail gives more control to government over where people can go. Rail gives control to government over where people live, work, shop, recreate etc…

    Their fantasies are having us unwashed live in very dense small footprint housing, depending on government transportation, vulnerable to the elites who set the rules, yet don’t follow them.

  • streetwise

    Japan;s population density is intense by Western standards and lends itself to high speed rail. I believe Japan Rail is semi-private, but the government-corporate partnership is intense as with everything else in Japan. A ticket from Tokyo to Osaka is not cheap – $200 + IIRC

    this video shows a trip from Okayama, which, traveling east, is before the Osaka-Tokyo corridor, and the density is considerable.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJdTjdOFl2E[/youtube]

    This one is from Yokohama to Tokyo, and gives some good glimpses of the urban sprawl at the Tokyo end of the corridor.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JiyrWniyzQ[/youtube]

    • streetwise
    • Menlo

      Japan’s birth rate is below replacement levels and among the most rapidly declining in the world.

    • streetwise

      video 1: Okayama-Osaka

    • streetwise

      Yokohama-Tokyo through the urban sprawl

  • unapologetic_american

    Private sector railroads could make specialized railway cars that could haul people’s automobiles. The automobile owners could stay in their vehicles or pay for an extra charge for additional accomodations. This would be a good alternative to flying as you’d not be putting the miles on your car nor would you have to pay for a rental. If done right, r&d could be invested into stronger, faster, and more efficient trains as well as improvement to the rails themselves.

    The worst part of public transportation is dealing with the public. Find a means of moving a person in the privacy of their own vehicle and it could be palpable.

  • meghan

    Our moron Gov. Neil AbeCommie, Obama’s Godfather who has known Barry from birth and is madly trying to find his COLB putting the birther issue to rest, is accepting federal funds for rail as promised. Honolulu residents have been taxed for this scam and AbercCommie will raid funds (we are 8B in debt, including pensions) should the feds not produce enough funding as Obama promised to get elected. BTW, at this time in the economy, no one wants HS rail except our corrupt Chicago mold politicians. Our state senate is 99 percent vice-grip Democratic controlled…our bus system is rated as one of the best in the nation…and where will this high-speed rail be taking people on a small island? The nitwit still has not located the COLB, too busy raising taxes and legalizing all that is illegal. Our unions who got him in office are now wanting him to step down, this after announcing that state workers pensions will be taxed and no more medicare part B for state retirees…the cops are mad…bring’ em on.

    • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

      High speed rail from Honolulu to Anchorage.

    • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

      High speed rail from Honolulu to Anchorage.

    • Common_Cents

      I’d love to catch a train from Honolulu to Lahaina and then to Hana!

      How bout a glass bottom rail? I could watch the fish while enroute!

      • meghan

        If it connected to all islands, it would be worth it if we had the monies. If our state was in better shape financially and the feds came through with the promised funding. it would still be a stretch. Also, that would hurt the inter-island carriers, but would be affordable for residents and tourist alike. The dems ran the superferry out of the state when it was hardly off the ground because it was a hit and affordable…provided jobs, car transportation, produce, etc. We waited many moons for the Superferry, but it was introduced by our then Republican Gov. Lingle (first Rep. Gov. in 40 yrs.) so that didn’t work out well.

        As it stands, it will only service a portion of Oahu only.

  • ihateliberals

    We don’t want to be EUROPE or ASIA we want to be ourselves. High speed rail for the American people will never make it. Why would i want to take a two hour train ride when i could fly just as easy. Oh i get it i wouldn’t have all the security,

    Rail passenger service will never get by without being subsidized by Federal Taxes. Look at the failure of Amtrak. the only High speed rail that might make it and be cost effective would be for freight. if we hd several lines going East/West and others that criss-cross North/South it might be cost effective over using long haul trucks. If i could get my goods across country a day or two earlier than trucks culd do it and cheaper tht would fly. High speed rail for people? NO way!

  • ihateliberals

    The ttle line should start out saying “When” instead of ‘WE”. fingers just aren’t working today.

  • cropperz

    after World War Two.The vote was no.Yet after 40-odd years of unprofitability,Washington is still shoveling our tax dollars into this money furnace,and conning themselves into believing that THEIR trains are the trains that will convince Americans to abandon air and highway travel. Whats next,a government mandated nationwide chain of Studebaker dealerships? (Electric Studebakers,of course.)

    • Spartan4Life

      that Obama wants to build trains and windmills, LOL.

  • johninohio

    In his naive condesention to the intelligence of the American people, he thinks that all he has to do is create an artificial competition with another country/s accompishments, and we will fall all over ourselves to get in line for the ‘fight’. In his ignorance, he doesn’t understand the militarisitic aspect of the space race. If the Soviets could launch satillites into space, they could launch nuclear tipped missiles into the US. Of course, a lot of corporations supporting the effort made big bucks off the tax payers, but we accepted that as a necessary cost of national security. National pride was a factor, too. But there is none of that element in the HSR issue.

    I’d also like to note that auto transport by rail was tried along the east coast down into Florida about 30 or so years ago, but didn’t last for more than a couple of years.

  • shadowmane

    of fellow Republicans potty-mouthing investment in rail projects. We have congested roadways, and don’t even get me started on airports. Our rail system is the biggest joke in the world. We should be the ones talking about rebuilding the rail infrastructure. Instead, the Democrats own this issue. You say passenger rail is no profitable. Ever wonder why? Its because you have to pay the freight railroads money just to use the track, then fight them over running trains on the tracks. On top of that, the freight rails will simply shut down a corridor and force passenger rail to pay the exorbitant taxes on it and the upkeep.

  • shadowmane

    of fellow Republicans potty-mouthing investment in rail projects. We have congested roadways, and don’t even get me started on airports. Our rail system is the biggest joke in the world. We should be the ones talking about rebuilding the rail infrastructure. Instead, the Democrats own this issue. You say passenger rail is no profitable. Ever wonder why? Its because you have to pay the freight railroads money just to use the track, then fight them over running trains on the tracks. On top of that, the freight rails will simply shut down a corridor and force passenger rail to pay the exorbitant taxes on it and the upkeep.

    The solution is for the government to invest in the infrastructure. Buy the corridors from the railroads and turn them over to the States’ Depts of Transportation. Make Amtrak a regional railroad (Northeast Corridor) and sit back and watch as passenger rail becomes profitable again.

    • Bill S

      You want the GOVERNMENT to subsidize the infrastructure, and then you have the audacity to talk about profitability?? Yeah, any company who depends on the U.S. government to subsidize all of its capital spending is gonna be profitable. What an asinine assertion. If someone thinks they want to start a passenger rail system, let ‘em spend their own money setting it up. NOT MINE.

      • shadowmane

        for the government to subsidize. I’m asking for the government to take over the infrastructure (as it has airports and roads), and leave the rest to business. Only then will rail be profitable. When the States own the rails, and the companies that run on them do just that. Run on them.

        • shadowmane

          Because there is no edit button here.

          I said “When the States own the rails, and the companies that run on them do just that. Run on them.” I didn’t like that sentence, but I can’t edit it.

          What I wanted to say, and what I mean is, if the rail companies only have to worry about putting rolling stock on the rails, instead of worrying about upkeep on the trackage, and paying the exorbitant taxes cities, counties and States put on the land the tracks run on, they will be more profitable. Only then, will passenger rail make a comeback.

          All I would like to see is for us to invest in rail infrastructure so that there’s another choice in travel. As it is, you either fly or drive. Driving gets tiring, and you have to deal with the other idiots on the road. On the rails (or in a plane, once you’ve been fully emasculated by TSA) you just sit back and relax.

          • Bill S

            The “trackage” is a capital investment. The government doesn’t need to be involved. That money you’re asking the gov’t to spend to buy the tracks is MY MONEY. If the railroads can’t exist on their own, they should not exist. The government doesn’t need to be in the railroad business any more than they need to be in the auto manufacturing business.

            Of course you’re asking for a subsidy. What the heck do you think “buying the trackage” is??

            Profit is a pretty easy concept to grasp: income – expense = profit. Yeah, if you subtract a big chunk of expense, of COURSE they’ll be profitable. Hey, why don’t we just build factories for GM and Ford – THEN they’ll be profitable! Or why doesn’t the government buy airplanes for United and American Airlines? They’ll be ENORMOUSLY profitable then!

            I suppose if you’re a leftist Democrat, that’s a winning strategy.

          • cordpt

            Airports? Seaports? Highways?

          • congressworksforus

            No.

            State?

            Depends; will the State generate revenue from building the road (e.g., more sales tax)? If not…

            No.

            But the local govt. might be interested, given that roads lead to developed land which leads to more property tax revenue.

            Airports?

            Depends… who benefits? The State brings in a new business that needs an improved/new airport? Will it generate sufficient revenue to cover the costs?

            But in all of these cases…. the Feds shouldn’t be involved.

  • johninohio

    It’s a mistake to believe trains are a direct competitor to autos. They aren’t. They can’t be. Their competitor is air travel. They both travel from city terminal to city terminal. If trains stopped along their route to drop off and pick up, which they would have to do to compete with cars, their overall speed would be tremendously reduced. So the people who currrently choose to drive vs flying would still choose to drive vs train. The time taken travelling by train would be 5 times as long (100mph vs 500 mph). Train tickets would have to be very much cheaper than air tickets to make it worth it. Security? You’d need just as much security at train terminals as at air terminals, along with security all along the route, something airplanes don’t need.

    • shadowmane

      automobiles, though. The argument about security goes for anything. If we invested in rail instead of the interstate system, making sure there are no railroad crossings, we would see as much of a return on investment. Highways have to be maintained. So do railroads.

      Rail is scalable. You can have commuter rail, which would run from small town to small town to big city. You would have intercity rail, which would run from big city to big city. Then you could invest in a coast to coast maglev project that would connect Washington to LA, or New York to LA, or Chicago to LA, Chicago to New York. But one major one that runs through the heart of the country that would only make at most between 5 and 10 stops. We have the technology for a maglev train in a vacuum tube to go over 3000mph. That would make a trip from Washington, DC to LA just a little over an hour trip.

      But it would take the government making the investment for it to happen. If left to business, all they’re going to do is what’s good for the bottom line. If left to business, it would never happen. This is the proper use of government. Unlike mandating universal health care and liberal crap like that.

      • johninohio

        if rail travel were economically viable, private investors would be all over it. If its not, then why throw tax money down the toilet to subsidize it? Just to satisfy some anti-auto fantasy?

        If you had all these tracks running all over the pristine wilderness between every podunk town in America, the enviro wackos would have a field day. Nothing would ever get built, or if built, used.

        3000mph trains? Far be it from me to say its not possible. In the laboratory on a small scale, maybe. But put into practice on a large scale? Sounds right around the corner, right? And wouldn’t a little sabatoge make some beautiful fireworks out of that, huh?

        Security the same between autos and trains? If you blow up a highway bridge you might kill 100 people. Blow up a bridge and destroy a transcontinental high speed train, and it would be like shooting down a jumbojet.