Military Intervention In Libya Is A Bad Idea


One of the immutable laws of politics is that the Democrat party will refuse to use military intervention in any location where the US has strategic geopolitical or trade interests. The corollary to that law is that there is no Third World craphole (see Somalia, Darfur, Haiti) to which the Democrats will not offer to send US troops so long as it is high risk and with no real purpose.

One must understand both these rules to comprehend the calls coming from the left demanding US intervention in Libya. Whether it is just “cratering” their airfields, as proposed by John Kerry this past weekend, or the chest thumping carried out by what we are told is our president, or the general demand by the media to “do something” it all boils down to the same thing: they are considering sending young men and women to death and injury for no purpose larger than feeling good about themselves and they are doing it with the same callous insouciance with which they cheerfully supported John Murtha’s (D-Ninth Circle) slow bleed strategy in Iraq.By way of background, Libya is a prototypical Islamic pest hole. It is roughly the size of Alaska with a population about that of Indiana. As far as one can tell no one from Libya has produced anything that has advanced the cause of civilization… ever… and other than oil, of which it exports slightly less than the Netherlands and slightly more than the UK, its two major products are terrorism and misery, listed in no particular order.

It is not self sufficient in food. Any industry it has is owned by various Qaddafi cronies. Its geographical position is astride no lanes of commerce. In short, Libya is the anti-Iraq. Where Iraq occupied key real estate and had the underpinnings of being a significant regional power, Libya has nothing and virtually is nothing.

If we’ve learned anything in the past 20 years is should be that we cannot let US foreign policy be driven by media coverage. We intervened in Haiti’s internal strife in 1994, again to make a certain class of intellectual feel good about “doing something” and withdrew having done nothing but show the world we did nothing. More tragically, we became embroiled in Somalia for the same reason, to “do something” without any observable strategic purpose, and our subsequent pell-mell retreat convinced bin Laden that he could replicate the effect.

Truth be told, what happens in Libya doesn’t matter to us so long as it stays confined to Libya. If anyone should be concerned it is the Euros who, no matter which way the situation turns out, will be on the receiving end of a stream of political refugees. If the EU does become involved it is hard to see exactly what value-added US forces will represent given the relative proximity of the EU to Libya.

So while I’m not opposed to military intervention, indeed I think that American bayonets have done more to spread liberty and free enterprise across the globe than any other force in history, such intervention needs to have a purpose. Not only must it have a purpose but that intervention must be part of a logical rhyme and reason that even the dimmest bulb can understand.

A few days ago a RedState colleague made the case for why US ground troops should not be committed to operations in Libya. I will take that a step farther. I think involving the US in any effort to establish or enforce a “no fly” zone is likewise folly. A “no fly” zone is nothing more than another form of “doing something” as the effectiveness of the Libyan air force is marginal. While the danger to US aircraft or airmen would be minimal, war is fraught with uncertainty. The Serbs really didn’t have the technical capability of bringing down an F-117 and yet…

At a minimum we should apply the Hippocratic Oath to this case and do no harm. We know precious little about the revolutionaries in Libya beyond the fact that they were able to effectively organize in the face of an a very repressive police state. One would be on safe ground if one presumed they were either islamists or communists as small-L liberal small-D democratic groups don’t do secrecy all that well. Simply because Qaddafi is loathsome doesn’t mean his opponents are less loathsome (see Shah of Iran – Khomeini; Lon Nol – Pol Pot; etc.).

Let’s not fool ourselves. If we intervene in Libya we do so for no strategic or humanitarian purpose and without any real consideration of what may follow.


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32 Comments Leave a comment

Like A Metaphor For Obama's Entire pResidency

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:05PM EDT (link)

If we intervene in Libya we do so for no strategic or humanitarian purpose and without any real consideration of what may follow.

What you just said there could describe Teh Stimulus, Obamacare, The Drilling Permoratorium, etc…(rant off)

Mr. Obama is pretending that an economic “recovery” is underway when he knows damn well that the banking system is just blowing smoke up the shredded *** of what’s left of that economy – James Howard Kunstler

 

From a former Marine infantry perspective

Mark Malcolm (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:16PM EDT (link)

America constantly is berated for ‘meddling’ in other country’s affairs. This time I believe we should station a battle group off the coast but only to ensure the Libyan conflict remains amongst Libyans and doesn’t spread to, say piracy, amongst other things.

If the world hates our military and country so much, I say let them deal with this one without us. We can use those saved dollars right here at home to offset all that Demoncrat ‘stimulus’ we have to make payments on to China.

I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it to the very death.

Libya Is Not Worth A Single Current Marine

Repair_Man_Jack (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:20PM EDT (link)

getting cross-ventilated by an AK-74 over. To create the Libyan no-fly zone, drop tons of DDT.

Mr. Obama is pretending that an economic “recovery” is underway when he knows damn well that the banking system is just blowing smoke up the shredded *** of what’s left of that economy – James Howard Kunstler

This is simply true!

livefreenh Wednesday, March 9th at 6:12AM EDT (link)

Please tell me, while telling other American mothers and fathers, which specific thing or goal or resource in Libya is worth a son or daughter dying for. One specific thing, please.

 
 

why?

streiff (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:21PM EDT (link)

The people who should do that are the EU, especially those members on the Mediterranean rim. They have more than enough capability to do this.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

To paraphrase Otto von Bismarck,

luciusacius (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:47PM EDT (link)

if “the whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pommeranian grenadier,” then, the whole of Libya is not worth a single drop of one Marine’s blood.

Lucius Accius
“oderint dum metuant”

nebulous phrase

streiff (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:50PM EDT (link)

widely misinterpreted. Pomeranians were considered to be the best military material in the Second Reich, grenadiers were the best troops.

Having said that, I agree with your sentiments.

“What keeps me here is the reek of beer, the ladies and the craic”

This surprises me

Next93 (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 10:48PM EDT (link)

Those little dogs with the curly tails? Who would have thought they’d make good fighters?

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

Historically speaking

CJB68 Wednesday, March 9th at 8:46AM EDT (link)

   Pomerania was one of those north-central European regions which formed a part of the realms of what was once the Holy Roman Empire, and thus fell within the radius of control of the Germans in Berlin during the 19th Century.  It wasn’t really until Bismarck maneuvered to forge the nation of Germany out of so many pieces of land disputed by their respective Barons, Dukes, Electors and Bishiprics, that all of these became part of a single country (the HRE being nothing like what it’s name suggested).

   Centuries of political, ideological and religious conflict tends to breed people who’re hard fighters like the aforementioned Pomeranian grenadier.  They were the 19th Century equivalent of our Marines.

Delusional and Arrogant.  The Modern Democratic Philosophy.

 
 
 
 

AGREE 100 PER CENT

roppongibob Tuesday, March 8th at 5:41PM EDT (link)

Where is the EU?

 
 
 

The neighbors can take cards in this matter

Castor (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 1:30PM EDT (link)

The Egyptians and Tunisians who border Libya should know if it´s in their interest to get involved. They both have their own problems and don´t need a flood of permanent refugees. If they wish to aid the insurgents that´s their business. They are muslims(except for the Copts in Egypt) and Arabs(except for the Berbers in Tunisia). Both have reasons to want Qadafi out of there.
They also should know some of the players in the opposition.
As far as the Europeans are concerned, they will have a refugee problem, but let them deal with it.
Libya is not worth the death of one American soldier or Airman!

 

Need another reason?

Locked and Loaded (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 2:06PM EDT (link)

Our involvement would certainly be a precursor to accepting “refugees” into the USA.

No GM, GE, or any GSE for me.

Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?
Matthew 20:15 NIV

Obie doesn't need that excuse. Just wait till they

throwback59 Tuesday, March 8th at 5:04PM EDT (link)

start flooding southern Europe, it will suddenly be our responsibilty to take our fair share.

 
 

Last I checked, Libya was a sovereign nation.

Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 3:11PM EDT (link)

So following that thought, I suppose we will intervene in Iran any day now. After all, their dear leader has been attacking his people for some time now. He is another ruthless dictator also- correct? Oh wait, we are going after North Korea instead. Surely their reprehensible history and verifiable acts of aggression rate them a “no-fly” zone?

I am missing the casus belli here. Certainly, if we will be downing aircraft and intervening in a civil war on sovereign territory that is a bi-product of war? Or will we make that declaration when they fire the first SAM at our fighters or shoot the air-to-air missile?

Absolute, unmitigated stupidity. Let the French, Germans and every other European or Russian that has been benefiting from this miserable tyrant intervene. That way they can create another success story. We can call it Gaza South when they are done.

“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson

 

No Weapons to Terrorists

erp617 Tuesday, March 8th at 4:47PM EDT (link)

Clinton gave weapons to Moslem terrorists in Kosovo and they used them to slaughter the Christians.

Please Cite

roppongibob Tuesday, March 8th at 5:40PM EDT (link)

Pls provide a cite for this info.

 
 

Excellent and recommended and 5^5

kowalski (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 5:56PM EDT (link)

Libya is Libya. You understand it perfectly. If anyone wants to establish a No-fly zone over Libya, the Italians should lead the way. Then we can let their planes get shot down by Russian missiles and resupply them with new jets. But not one moment before.

Libya is a country that really doesn't even exist

kowalski (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 6:02PM EDT (link)

The only thing of value that has ever existed in Libya is Oil and Gadhafi. Gadhafi because Vanity Fair can pump up his fashion sense (his sons were worth so much here!) and oil because it’s oil. But it’s not that much oil. And Gadhafi has done nothing but rob everyone in Libya of the value of that oil, the Socialist Revolutionary he is.

It stinks though. The people in Libya who have really suffered under a Socialist regime are going to be torn apart and blown to pieces, and already have been.

Somebody in Gadhafi’s inner circle should find a bullet, load it into a gun, and do what’s right.

 
 

Let the euros do it!

rick554 Tuesday, March 8th at 6:02PM EDT (link)

With the amateurish and juvenile “leadership” we have in DC, I say forget about calls from the MSM , John F’ing Kerry and any other limp-wristed , liberal warmonger to set up a “no fly zone” or anything else. They have shown that they cant be counted on to see any military action through and will run at the first opportunity. Maybe we could airdrop some tents or MRE’s , but anything else should come from the Euros. If THEY can find their gonads!
A Proud Parent of a SOLDIER

Rick554

Don't forget something about Gadhafi

kowalski (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 8:14PM EDT (link)

He’s a real, dyed-in-the-wool Socialist, and he has the clothes to prove it. That means that he’s going to try to give back to his people every single bullet he ever collected. It’s happening right now in Libya.

 

How about the countries that sold Libya the planes and helicopters?

Next93 (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 10:58PM EDT (link)

Any country that’s been irresponsible enough to sell military hardware to Gadaffi should step forward to neutralize that hardware. I suspect that leaves the US out of the equation.

I MIGHT be in favor of sending in drones to get video of what’s happening, possibly capturing the faces of the men pulling the triggers. Lets see how eager Gadaffi’s henchmen are when they realize that they’re about to be featured on wanted posters worldwide.

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 
 

If we help a popular uprising in Libya, what do we do when the Shia of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia rise up in favor of alliance with Iran?

ashland_avenue (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 9:07PM EDT (link)

Assume we do bring arms to bear in Libya in support of the ‘popular uprising’.

What do we do then, when the Shia of Bahrain and Saudi Arabia mount their own popular uprising and seek to align those nations with Iran, also a Shia nation?

George Friedman of www.stratfor.com has been writing on Libya and Iran lately; it is the most valuable source of information on the region in my opinion.

I have just finished his book, The Next Decade, and wholeheartedly recommend it as well.

 

Senator Kerry's vast military experience

Next93 (Diary) Tuesday, March 8th at 11:01PM EDT (link)

Seems to me that Sen. Kerry’s written a few words about sending young men to die in “senseless” wars, or did I imagine that?

BTW, is he aware that “cratering” airfields hasn’t been effective since WWII, when the Americans developed metal sheeting runways?

Obama was The One in 2008.
He’ll be a BIGGER one in 2012.

 

Red State Isolationists

frankm64 Wednesday, March 9th at 7:01AM EDT (link)

Have you totally forgotten the Bushd octrine of spreading freedom in the world and to the Middle East in particular? You are now souding like isolationists. Is Ghadaffi different from Saddam?

The difference is the who's in charge

Mark Malcolm (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 7:31AM EDT (link)

and the underlying approach to the conflict. Bush gave the ground commanders the leeway to do what was needed in theater to win.

When Democrats run a ware baby aspirin factories get bombed to distract CNN from uncomfortable liasons at home.

I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it to the very death.

 

The difference is the who's in charge

Mark Malcolm (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 7:32AM EDT (link)

and the underlying approach to the conflict. Bush gave the ground commanders the leeway to do what was needed in theater to win.

When Democrats run a war baby aspirin factories get bombed to distract CNN from uncomfortable liaisons at home.

I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it to the very death.

 

So was the Bush doctrine a good one?

kyle8 (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 7:49AM EDT (link)

I think it was a total failure. It cost us so much that it helped to nearly bankrupt us. It caused a huge amount of internal divisiveness and a lot of friction with our foreign allies.

It remains to be seen if it has enhanced our security in any way.

I also wonder just where it is in the constitution that the government has the right to corral our blood and resources on some sort of inchoate crusade. I can’t seem to see that in the constitution.

There is a big difference between isolationism and non-intervention.

I wonder why there are so many conservatives who seem to still have a cold war mentality. We did a lot of things during the cold war, many of them stupid and reckless, and expensive, but we felt that we had to because of the existential threat caused by international communism.

That no longer applies, we should be much more reluctant to use our power willy nilly with no thought about the long range consequences.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

 

Absolute stupidity.

Marcus_Traianus (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 8:32AM EDT (link)

Do you even know what the Bush Doctrine is?

If you can’t tell the difference between Iraq under Saddam and Libya under Ghadaffi (sic) then there is really no basis for discussion here.

“Both of our political parties, at least the honest portion of them, agree conscientiously in the same object—the public good; but they differ essentially in what they deem the means of promoting that good. One side believes it best done by one composition of the governing powers; the other, by a different one. One fears most the ignorance of the people; the other, the selfishness of rulers independent of them. Which is right, time and experience will prove.”.Thomas Jefferson

 
 

Intervening in Libya...

CJB68 Wednesday, March 9th at 8:54AM EDT (link)

   To the best of my recollection, we only entered Libya on a few occasions.  The first was to beat up a few corsairs who were attacking US shipping interests back at the beginning of this country’s history.  Note that nothing much happened from that quarter until we had to go in there to fight the Germans under Rommel 150 years later.  The third time that I recall, we were dropping a few bombs on Khaddafi’s head in response to his terrorist agents bringing a jumbo jet carrying Americans down on a Scottish town.  That was when we had Ronald Reagan in the Oval Office, a man who wasn’t going to mince words or split hairs when it came to dealing with the types that seem to breed out of that area.

   In world history, Libya was always a thorn in someone’s side.  The Pharoahs had to deal with these guys in their time; on more than one occasion, Libyan tribes attempted to raid the Nile Valley when they saw an opportunity.  The Greek colonists in Cyrenacia, and then Roman legions based there, basically kept them out of bowshot.  When the Arabs made their big push with Islam, Libyans took up their faith and assumed their traditional role as pirates and desert robbers with the Koran as an excuse.

Delusional and Arrogant.  The Modern Democratic Philosophy.

 

Libya In Perspective

RightinSanFrancisco (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 9:02AM EDT (link)

For a broader perspective in a similar vein, see “Libya In Perspective” posted to Red State by bill bowen on March 5.

www.RightinSanFrancisco.com

RightinSanFrancisco

 

Sit this one out

silkywiley Wednesday, March 9th at 12:13PM EDT (link)

I have to admit, the media on the Libyan airforce attacking the insugents has distubed me, thanks for this article to clarify for me that we have to stay out of this one. My first instinct on this was correct. Sit this one out. Our young warriors are too precious to throw into this mess.

 

Intervention would make my tummy feel good

Alberta (Diary) Wednesday, March 9th at 4:01PM EDT (link)

Honestly it would. But I dont know anything about Libya, and I suspect the people who are calling for an armed American presence don’t either. Still, I have no love for Qadaffi and would happily see him dead, all things being equal.

Not that I know anything about the place…

But isn’t Italy and China like the two main countries in Libya? Why would we spend our money and risk our lives to protect their interests?

Unless I’m totally wrong.

Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Abraham Lincoln