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The Unprecedented Killing of Anwar al-Awlaki

I’m not a lawyer and I don’t even play one after staying at a Holiday Inn Express or when posting on RedState so what follows doesn’t pretend to be a legal analysis but more of a historical perspective on what Mr. al-Awlaki’s untimely end may signify.

I’ll preface this by saying that I think the killing of al-Awlaki to be right and proper. I’m not Ron Paul, Kevin Williamson, or Glenn Greenwald. That does not mean that I’m without a bit of queasiness.

To the best of my knowledge the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki is the first time in our history that a US citizen, serving under arms against his country, has been specifically placed on a “hit list” and then hunted down and killed.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.

It isn’t as though this is business as usual, the compilation of such a list represents a first:

It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president.

There are several possible models for this action but as we will soon see they all fall short.

Throughout history there have been certain classes of criminals subject to extrajudicial killing. Pirates, for instance, were condemned as hostis humani generis, or enemies of mankind, and subject to summary execution wherever they were taken. The fact that this was authorized does not mean that it has happened since the dawn of the 18th century. When Robert Maynard defeated Edward Teach at Ocracoke Inlet he brought the captured pirates back to Williamsburg, VA for trial and execution. I have yet to find an example of a US warship taking pirates and hanging them on the spot.

Finding men of your own country in the army of your opponents is hardly a new experience. Throughout history when such men have been encountered they were given short shrift (there are obvious exceptions to this global statement, “na Geana Fiadhaie”, the Wild Geese, frequently found themselves on opposite sides and were rarely treated as anything but honorable combatants). During the Mexican War, a number of American soldiers deserted to the Mexican side and formed the St. Patrick’s Battalion, or San Patricios. When they inevitably fell into American hands a goodly number of them were hanged. Even so, this was done after court martial and the leader of the San Patricios avoided the death penalty because he had deserted before the declaration of war.

So while bearing arms against your native country usually resulted in death if captured, it is distinguished from al-Awlaki in that there was no list involved, the people are captured, and there is at least a patina of judicial process.

After the Civil War there was assorted score settling against some Confederate guerrillas, e.g. Marcellus Clark and Champ Ferguson to name two, but they were tried by court martial no matter how flawed the process, for instance, Clark’s verdict was signed before his court martial started.

Perhaps cattle rustlers and horse thieves were legally hanged out of hand in the Old West. I don’t know and I can’t find evidence that the law allowed this rather than the law merely looking the other way. In either case, it would not rise to the level of the killing of al-Awlaki as there was a judicial imprimatur on the action.

When Prohibition ushered in an age of organized crime, law enforcement changed its rules of engagement. The killings of Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow from ambush and the gunning down of John Dillinger on a Chicago sidewalk would not pass muster today. However, these killings involved indictments and arrest warrants.

During World War II we had the celebrated case of the German saboteurs who participated in Operation Pastorius. Two of these saboteurs were American citizens. When they were captured they were tried by military commission and died in the electric chair in the old District of Columbia jail.

Again, capture, trial, execution.

One has to assume that some of Otto Skorzeny’s commandos who participated in Operation Greif were American citizens, some had lived in the United States for a long period of time. When they were shot, it was after a court martial.

There might possibly be analogs in the classified history of the Cold War, that era of James Bond and his “license to kill” but they remain lost to us. What we can surmise is that the killing of defectors and traitors was much more common in novels than in real life. Guys like Philip Agee and Edward Howard weren’t targeted as far as we can tell.

Wikipedia tries to make a big deal out of “targeted killings” but a review of the names find that they are uniformly enemy combatants who were killed. What they do have in common is that they have all happened after 9/11. There is another American on the list, the hapless Kamal Derwish, who seems to have serendipitously been in the wrong place at the wrong time rather than specifically targeted.

There are times in history when law and custom are outstripped by social change and technology. I think we are at such a juncture in warfare. We are now, for the first time, actually able to locate particularly noxious individuals via various intelligence methods and kill them via Predator.

What leaves me queasy is the idea of a list.

If you are gunning for a bad guy his nationality should be immaterial. Americans do not have a get-out-of-jail-free card on the battlefield. The fact that he is on the wrong side in an armed conflict makes him a legitimate target. You don’t need a list. It makes no difference whether you are hitting him with a Hellfire missile or a Delta Force trooper drags him out of a car in Albania and shoots him by the roadside.

COMMENTS

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    I mean, they didn’t even catch Al Wookie’s capos accepting fake C-4 from the Feds.

    He was only an angry Internet Matine Idol as far as they could prove.

  • anjinconsulting

    authorized such an action it would seem to be inconsistent with the powers delegated to the President. It seems that there is some vague statement in the Constitution about Congress having the power “[t]o declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water…” But then again, congress hasn’t really been fulfilling their obligations and exercising their prerogatives other than busily lining their own pockets and those of their benefactors. Who can blame Zero for taking action right?

    Just one more step onto the slippery slope where we begin killing our political opponents.

    • streiff

      I think the AUMF of Sept 2001 clearly makes al-Awlaki a target because he was with al Qaeda and al Qaeda is targeted.

      I’m not comfortable with the idea of making a list of people you are authorized to kill. I don’t see how it is useful if we are fighting a war and if we aren’t fighting a war it is wrong.

      • anjinconsulting

        If he renounced his citizenship and declared his hostility to the United States, then it would have been a simple matter to charge him with treason by his own words, issue an warrant for him to appear in court and forcibly detain him..or kill him in the process because s&%$t happens whenyou deal with turds like him. But at least he would have been lawfully charged, and provided with the opportunity to defend himself in court like a citizen of the US is entitled too.

        I could care less that they smoked him; they need to smoke a few more like him too. Just follow the law, otherwise we are no better than Hugo or Fidel or Che or Mao or Stalin or Xerxes or well…..you get the point.

        • streiff

          Under the Constitution you can only be guilty of treason if you are a citizen. If he renounced his citizenship he can’t commit treason.

          I am opposed to the idea of “charging”: people with crimes when we are in a state of hostilities.

          • anjinconsulting

            An American citizen is entitled to due process under the law. Under the Constitution the Judicial branch is empowered to find someone guilty of treason, either by levying war against the U.S. (which he evidently did) or by adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort (which he evidently did; come to think of it so did Jane Fonda but I digress). Then the Constitution goes on to say that no person shall be convicted of treason UNLESS on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. I sincerely doubt that we could not produce two witnesses to his overt acts. Furthermore, the Congress has the power to declare the punishment of treason. Captain Zero has no authority to declare any punishment.

            Don?t misconstrue my argument; that turd got what he had coming and so did the scum he was colluding with. We just kind of forgot that whole rule of law thing in the process. Enemy combatants like shoe bombers, panty bombers, KSM, OBL and the rest of the non-citizen AQ or AQ wannabes, narco terrorists etc. get no sympathy or consideration from me but; treasonous rat b**t**ds (read that U.S. citizens) get the benefit of the law before we send them out.

            Oh yeah?great recon and nice shot guys! Keep up the good work.

          • tex41lb

            Once citizenship in renounced the individual is of the same status as any member of al-qaeda. Bin Laden was a targeted enemy with a death warrant outside of the courts.

            The issue does seem to be a citizen on a target list without any due process beyond the ambiguous power of a president to “make rules concerning captures_____”.

            Due process limits existing for prevention of similar action against any citizen have been weakened if left unchallenged.

    • Wayne

      and has been going on long before 911. AAA and his comrades are the enemy of a free people. They mean to kill all of us and have proven over these many years that they intend to do it with no boundaries of honor or dignity. The fact that his family had an “intervention” to try to keep him from going “down the wrong path” would indicate that Muslims in general don’t see radical Islam as the enemy as much a free thinking people. And their only reason for trying to stop him was for his safety not the lives of innocent people.

      Though a private citizen, I recognize my beliefs make me an enemy of Islam. And, I don’t have to be an enemy combatant to be eliminated as collateral damage from one of their weapons in this conflict. In this conflict the USA makes every effort not to kill the innocent and have the power to surgically remove individual enemy combatants.

      Our enemy generally kills indiscriminately, even their own.

      All that said, there are also an army of patriots that honor the Constitution, pledge to protect and defend it. We understand its importance to a free society. I doubt the killing of AAA spells the end of our love for and reverence of the Constitution.

      Of course that’s just my opinion…

    • gaudium

      Sounds like some type of Union action in old Chicago, but what else can we expect from a street corner Union organizer. Thugs are always the same, its there way or no way!

  • Tbone

    I have no problem creating a list of targets for death provided that there is a methodology involved other than the CiC exercising some divine right.

    However, if you are going to use bombs to kill these targets, what is the justification for killing everyone in the house or car or happening to be passing in the opposite lane or living next door?

    • streiff

      in that regards but they are more a matter of aesthetics than anything else. As Napoleon said you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs. I think using a MOAB in a built up area is excessive. Maybe a 2,000 pounder. A Hellfire? I think you have to accept the risk to passersby.

      • Tbone

        How many is OK and at what point is it too many? LOL.

        That’s why my motto, is “If you have to kill some of them, you may as well kill all of them”.

        The Dark Ages had a lot more to offer than most people think.

    • aesthete

      if those on the list are foreign nationals. I do find it a bit problematic to intentionally target and kill a US citizen without trial. If Anwar had been killed by a Marine in Afghanistan while they were involved killing other terrorists? Well, too bad, so sad, but nothing to get worked up about. Going out of one’s way to target the guy extrajudicially, when he really doesn’t present much of a threat, seems like a terrible idea to me — especially when it’s not clear that the Obama administration even *tried* to look for legal recourse. I don’t think anyone’s going to question Bush’s commitment to the WoT, so why is it that Obama is going a step further than Bush ever did? Agree with him or no, Bush at least *tried* to find legal precedent and recourse for what he did. From the very get go, the Obama administration’s legal team has just said, “eh, eff it” when it comes to assassinating US citizens. That’s pretty darned disturbing.

      • streiff

        Killing US citizens if they are with out enemies isn’t a problem for me. The idea that they are trying to treat this as if it were some legal rather than military action is very worrisome.

        • aesthete

          but if and only if it’s in the course of some military action that advances one of our objectives. It’s not unprecedented to kill US citizens facing off against us in the heat of battle, nor do I care to institute a policy wherein we have to check to make sure our enemies are citizens or not before killing them. However, the basic idea should be to preserve the liberties of the citizenry as best we can during a time of war, not to say “eff it” and pick up the pieces after the fact. There’s a reason that we don’t just suspend any and all laws whenever there’s a war, after all, as many other countries doe. In this case, the Obama administration advertised months prior that the were going after the guy. I’m no legal eagle, but couldn’t they have had a trial in absentia, or some legal gloss without having it interfere with operations to nail this guy? Aaron Burr got a trial for treason. The Rosenbergs got a trial. Can’t we give this scumbag a trial for self-interested reasons, as well? Again, I don’t see why we couldn’t give this guy a trial *and* send a Predator his way.

          • renl57

            The Sixth Amendment to the Constitution states: “in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right?to be confronted with the witnesses against him.”

            IOW, the accused has the right to face his accusers. That wouldn’t be happening with a trial in absentia.

            A trial held in absentia is nothing but a show trial, a kangaroo court, whose proceedings clearly violate the Bill of Rights.

            Why bother.
            Just spell out the accusations against the man in a bill of particulars.

          • aesthete

            Like I said, I’m no legal eagle.

          • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

            Nobody said he can’t show up for his trial. It is only “in-absentia” because after reasonable efforts were made to apprehend the accused he can’t be located and brought to the bar.

            Not saying this can’t be abused and in the US it is not generally constitutional. Check streiff’s link below. But, is then, a President summarily declaring him guilty and sentencing him to death without even an indictment MORE constitutional?

            This is a terrible precedent, particularly since the legal reasoning and limitations to it are classified.

            What are the limits of this new found power?

            We don’t know if it is limited to foreign turf.

            If accepted it means any President, at any time could on national security issues order the death of any American citizen abroad and perhaps at home. There is no review as the judge declared earlier this year.

            Streiff, says in his piece that it may have to be accepted given the changing circumstances of the world and particularly the war on terror.

            This war on terror has no end. It has no beginning in American history. It is 1500 years old at minimum. We aren’t suddenly going to “solve” this. Particularly given that our politicians and elite refuse to recognize this is, and has been, a permanent feature of islam not vague esoteric radical islam.. muhammad was a terrorist.

            Given all that, why bother having a 5th Amendment or even a constitution?

          • streiff

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_absentia

          • richp89

            This is a properly declared war on terror. The battlefield is global. Obama is the Commander in Chief. In my view he does get to make the call. The guy was on the battlefield plotting against innocent people that he is in war with. Killing him was a military objective because it cuts one more head off the snake and sends the message that if you lead forces against the US and other innocent people then you are going to pay the ultimate price. If this was not a war and he was not the enemy in that war then yes I would agree. He should be tried for his crimes. Since it is a war and my understanding is that he could not be captured and tried by a war tribunal then I believe our forces are right in taking him out. As far as being on a list it makes you queazy but the military has to identify and prioritize targets of interest. Otherwise our troops are just aimlessly wandering around trying to figure out who the bad guys are.

            Just my $.02

      • Tbone

        nominally a citizen being that I consider citizenship to carry with it patriotic responsibilities. If someone overtly rejects those responsibilities then they become a citizen of the world.

        • aesthete

          I mean, we’re talking about an administration that calls it “unpatriotic” for the rich to not pay high taxes, for crying out loud. We need something a bit more substantive than “Obama said so” or “Bush/Perry said so” for this to be OK.

          It seems to me that proving Anwar’s treason would be pretty easy in a court of law. Do that, strip him of his citizenship, and *then* hunt him down like a dog. As is, this looks a lot like Obama’s other attempts to avoid rule of law in the hope that apathy lets him get away with it.

          • Tbone

            I’m a very fair and objective person.

            seriously, there should be a high level review across several agencies whether the target is a citizen or not. Of course, the EPA would have to be excluded because you would have to file an Impact report before you could drop the bomb.

          • aesthete

            In seriousness, my problem with mere review on the part of high-level agencies is that there’s the problem of independence and objectivity. Holder and Geithner are never going to be fair or objective about this sort of thing: again, you’re talking about people so warped that they think that paying low taxes is unpatriotic, and that dismantling the Constitution is patriotic. Republicans are marginally better, but still.

            The judicial branch isn’t perfect, but it’s a little bit less prone to that problem. Heck, judge the guy under a military tribunal, if there’s precedent for it — it’s not impartial, but it’s generally fair. Anwar’s pretty obviously guilty, so it shouldn’t be too hard. Just don’t have it so that my guilt or innocence hinges on the say-so of Obama and his cronies.

    • http://punditpawn.wordpress.com punditpawn

      There is no justification for tangential civilian deaths, but as the modus operandi of these thugs is to use human shields, then collateral damage is inevitable.

      • streiff

        or Hiroshima? Of course there is a justification for non intentional civilian deaths, even large numbers of them.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          These guys agree with Pat Buchanan and think Hitler was the victim.

          • Tbone

            aren’t you?

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            You sure do whine at the least bit of pushback.

          • Tbone

            I thought you were picking on the other guys in an unfortunately inept manner. And, I don’t think trying to lead you into a thoughtful reconsideration of your intemperate and inane remark, to your future betterment, is whining.

            I regret that my good intentions in a gentle attempt to help you to a better place in your personal journey towards maturity was misinterpreted. In the future, I’ll try to match my comments to your current level of awareness.

            You know Neil, if I didn’t think you actually possess potential of for improvement I would not try to be so supportive of your struggles towards that goal.

        • Tbone

          non-intentional and intentional civilian deaths. Certainly both Dresden and Hiroshima were intentional civilian deaths.

          However, I think this speaks to your core concern which is trying to twist civil legal processes into a justification for what should just be considered a legitimate military action.

          It was in this context that I posted originally. In a civil legal process there is no justification for collateral damage. You don’t execute a condemned man in a manner that can harm bystanders.

          OTH, if the condemned man has been designated a military target, then, like every other military target, collateral damage is an assumed risk.

      • JSobieski

        attempts to sanitize war are of dubious value. Maybe its better to just them more quickly?

        • aesthete

          that we end the WoT (quickly or otherwise)?

      • rcastonjr

        It’s called destroying the enemy’s will to fight. This was not lost on previous generations but has been put away by THIS one. Ever wonder why we could fight two world wars and win in a few years and we have been at this for well over 10 years and are no closer to actually winning than when we started. Thank political correctness for interfering in war making. Destroying the enemy’s will to fight is exactly what Hiroshima and Nagasaki were all about. Trying to win the hearts and minds is crap and gets our guys killed. Annihilating them may not win their hearts but it will certainly win their minds. Any country that allows terrorist to breed should be met with a few tactical nukes in their biggest cities that destroy everything. Then simply ask, who’s next? And yes, I am serious. Right now the entire world thinks we are a bunch of p……. and they keep on coming. Why, because not only will we sacrifice our young to keep from hurting their “innocent” we will rebuild their nation better than they ever could have when we are finished. Fighting sanitized wars does nothing but cost us more in both money and human treasure. We should only go to war with the attitude to win the fastest way possible by whatever means necessary to save OUR soldiers lives. If you aren’t committed to that strategy then don’t go to war at all.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    If I were in AQ, I’d almost try to arrange a sting operation to make that very thing happen.

    • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

      Ranging from the “it was a wedding party” to the haditha fabricated charges etc.

      That propaganda tactic in the long run turned out to be counterproductive if I recall correctly.

  • Change Jar Conservative

    but that might be unprecedented as well.

    • traversecityconservative

      We assassinated an American citizen. I’m very glad he’s dead but it was still an assassination. There should be some kind of process like you mentioned to make what we did legal. If Bush would have done it, there would be calls for his resignation.

  • throwback59

    give credit to the President, but in this case he deserves it.
    Had we gotten Al Wacky 3 years ago, 13 Americans and an unborn baby would not have been murdered at Fort Hood. For the life of me I can’t understand why anyone would ever have second thoughts.

    • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

      n/t

      • throwback59

        with a known terrorist overseas is hardly “persecuting.”

  • mvosteen

    I don’t really mind that this guy is dead, I would have preferred that as a US citizen that he was tried ether in person or in absentia first. I believe he was a bad guy and his involvement in the FT Hood shootings alone should be enough to get a military trial. I wonder how this administration that wanted to prosecute members of the CIA and the Bush administration thinks that killing an American without any due process is OK. I guess this is one tough call and I am glad that I am not the person that has to make it.

  • dajeeps

    Constitutional requirements for justice, nor does it allow expansive Executive powers of becoming judge, jury and executioner.

    If this guy had been killed in the process of apprehension, that would be one thing. But that is not what happened.

    • streiff

      nt

      • Scope

        who Ron Paul convinced are peaceful people who are just riled up because we are occupying their land. Paul said that the whole Islamic terrorist threat thingy is all made up, just like the whole communist threat in the 60′s was all made up. I guess he refuses to acknowledge that he is occupying the Communists territory in Washington.

      • dajeeps

        It has to do with the constitution, and unlike some I can read the plain text and understand what it means.

        Perhaps you should go back to your history book and read about John Adams’ involvement with the British solders who were involved in the Boston Massacre, and get a grip on how important the founding generation believed due process and the rule of law is to a civil society.

        What happened is mob rule, and rule of men. It’s disgusting.

        • streiff

          or is that you Pat Buchanan?

        • rcastonjr

          some of these folks around here even consider the Constitution. EVERY American should be concerned about this hit job. While I’m more than happy to see this traitor be tried and executed, as per the law of the land, I get a little nervous at unbridled government power to set The Constitution aside for simplicity and expediency by what is nothing more than an assassination of an American citizen. And yes, a traitor. If we all stand by and condone this then who is next? This evil SOB certainly deserved to die but without due process it comes with the destructive price of trampling on The Constitution and ceding more power to an already too powerful government. But who needs to abide by that old worthless piece of paper if we can get our man? Right fellas?

    • Tbone

      that says: “Step away from the car and put your hands up”. Maybe they had the radio on and couldn’t hear the demand.

      Oh well.

  • powertothepeople

    but under the laws of citizenship, would he not have already lost his citizenship in the USA due to a few reasons:

    1) Holding a policy making level position in a foreign government.

    2) Serving In Your Native Country?s Armed Forces If That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States

    3) Serving In Your Native Country?s Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer ]

    I know we could get into the term “native country,” but since he has adopted Yeman and they him, I believe it fits the term. And since any of these three result in an involuntary loss of citizenship with or without trial, do not see where he is an American citizen anymore.

    • aesthete

      then why didn’t the Obama administration just say that, instead of going out of its way to issue a statement from its legal branch saying that the President has the right to target US citizens for assassination?

      • powertothepeople

        and would never try to explain the rational behind anything this administration ever does.

        My only point is that it seems some people have an issue with an “American” citizen being killed without trial or due process and without the killing occurring on the battlefield. My point is that once he took a position within the terrorist organization, starting to make active policy decisions, his nation began a war with his country of citizenship, and so on, he lost all rights to be called an American citizen deeming him open to the kill without trial.

    • streiff

      according to the State Department

      Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

      obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
      taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
      entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
      accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
      formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
      formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
      conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

      As al Qaeda is not a state and he wasn’t convicted of treason, I don’t see anyway his citizenship would be forfeit.

      BTW, none of these are automatic. They all require some action. The courts have ruled that you can’t simply strip someone of citizenship.

  • Raven

    Not the first time we have gone out of our way to kill enemy combatants that happened to be American citizens. Not even the first time we targeted them specifically for assassination. Although WWII may have been the last time. We may not always have been successful, but we Have tried and even succeeded a time or two before.

    • Raven

      Never picked up a weapon against the USA. FDR sure tried hard to kill her, though.

      • streiff

        that simply isn’t true. Not only did we not try to kill her she only served 6 years in prison and was eventually pardoned.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Rose

    • streiff

      This is exactly the first time we’ve gone out of our way to use military force to kill a US citizen.

      Give me one example previous to this instance, excepting Derwish who I believe was just in a target area.

      • richp89

        Yes they seceded but from what you posted earlier I don’t think the US took them to trial and revoked their citizenship before killing them on the battlefield. Again I agree if this was a civil issue then the whole list and assasination without due process is wrong. But since I interepret the battlefield to be global and this guy to have been conducting acts of war against the US then I believe Obama is well within his rights as Commander in Chief to direct his military to take out this target of interest. I would love to see Obama booted out of our house but in this case I think he got it right.

        • streiff

          I don’t mind killing him and I don’t mind him being on a list to be killed. I do think it is bad business to have a separate list for Americans and to allow some kind of quasi-judicial process to decide who is placed on the list.

          I think he got the decision right. I think his methodology is just lunacy

  • florajo

    Before, we had a president who had heartache violating Pakistan’s border even for Enemy No. 1, and seemed to have many other unspoken reservations (perhaps including going after American citizens). Now we have a president willing to break “the rules.”

    I prefer the current situation. There’s no slippery slope here — the guy had it coming. Even people who disagree with the process agree he had it coming.

  • hwgood

    That is the reality created by the terrorists, themselves. This was the removal of an enemy combatant from the battlefield by a longer shot than even a Barrett .50 BMG sniper rifle could have accomplished.
    The folks who accomplished it deserve a “Well done.”
    Bam-Bam? No kudos for him, he’s just following up on Dubya’s methods/

    • aesthete

      Do you see where that might be problematic, when the “war” that we’re fighting seems to have no conditions for ending, and when apparently, our Commander-in-Chief isn’t required to define who falls under the category of “combatant”? The guys who took out Anwar deserve a pat on the back. Obama’s legal department, and the “justice” system that let his shenanigans go on unopposed? Not so much.

      • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

        then again islam versus everyone else has been an ongoing jihad, with stops and starts, for centuries prior to our getting engaged against it. How can we consider an end point against a group that will never consider it over as long as some of them can pass the hatred along to their next generations after being stopped for a bit?

        Where does victory lie when your enemy is ultimately a religious belief that one side as an infidel have no right to life and a zillion justifications can be made for rebuilding to fight after being crushed over and over again?

        • aesthete

          get used to people supporting “half-measures” and “not being serious” about the War on Terror: if we’re just lobbing missiles, spying on people, and throwing money down the “defense” chute without knowing what we’re doing, it’s not just smelly hippies who are going to have problems with your strategy. See, when people gave up liberties during WWII or other wars, it was with the expectation that these liberties would be returned after we win the war. If we’re talking about *centuries* of ceaseless, unremitting warfare, then people aren’t going to be so keen on giving up their civil liberties, money or basic legal protections for little apparent gain.

          • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

            Which is very disturbing on many levels.

          • aesthete

            What I find disturbing is the attitude that we should live in a permanent semi-militarized state for an unquantifiable, and very small, level of security. In the case of the Cold War, WWII, etc the answer was simple: collapse the bad guys’ evil country, we win, they lose — that sort of thing. Don’t pretend like the WoT is even close to being the same thing, or like the threat and potential damage levels are even close to being at levels that would justify what the WoT uber-hawks have been demanding of us. If they’re not serious about winning the war, and have no objective, then they should get used to being seen in a similar light to AGW fanatics who want us to transform our lives on the basis of alarmism and very little in the way of practical solutions.

          • richp89

            what do you suggest we do? We cannot sit idly by. The end game for Islamists is a global caliphate where we are all subject to Sharia law and if you are not for Allah then you die or at the very least you are lower than the lowest animal on Earth. If we don’t act now then when. When everyone else is gone? What if we did that during WWII? We would be speaking Japanese or German now. The fact that the we cannot define the conditions for victory is unfortunate but it is the hand we are dealt. Islam is at war with us whether we choose to participate. I am sure they would prefer that we did not participate. It would make their goals easier to obtain. The M.O. has always been to lay low and wait for the right time put their plans in action. They spread their hate and procreate exponentially over the years building up their army of suicide bombers until their goal is met. The way we go back and forth now is akin to the British army lining up in battle ranks while militiamen anhialate them with unconventional tactics.

          • aesthete

            in the notion that we glass the countries and regions that support terrorism against the US. Knock it off with nation-building and don’t strip citizens’ rights; just glass the bases of support. We haven’t had any major attacks on US soil; I think and hope that this trend can continue by disincentivizing the creation of areas sympathetic to international terrorist groups hostile to the US.

  • florajo

    Yes, Bam Bam is following on Bush’s methods. But there’s an added pragmatic streak that takes the enemy as he is, and pursues him across borders to wherever he is. I want the new Republican president to follow on these methods. They are effective.

    I like the idea of taking out an ideological enemy with pragmatic calculation.

    I’m a bit concerned about the isolationist hints coming from Perry and Romney. I trust they’ll do the right thing, but I’m concerned all the same.

  • renl57

    ….there would need to be a new legal procedure to bring charges against an American member of al-Qaeda.

    The current process is subject to the 6th Amendment to the Constitution, which stipulates that the accused has the right to face his accuser and witnesses against him.

    You can’t hold a constitutional trial against an American al-Qaeda member unless he is present.

    You could at least bring the charges against him. But you couldn’t try him in absentia without violating the 6th Amendment.

    • Tbone

      so that he can get the protections of the 6th Amendment when he come to trial. LOL

  • johnt

    or at least my mind. Much worse really, 20 kids burned to death, in peace time, a police operation. I didn’t see to many of the left bewailing that, try as Reno & Clinton did to lie about it.
    Not ever having fought a war against religious terrorists I take it as a given that the nicieties of criminal law would not cover someone who effects and plots to kill more of us through that Terror. Perhaps it invites improvisation, wars do that, they being matters of life and death.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    Capturing al-Awlaki was not an option. He was too deep in hostile territory and too well protected by armed tribesmen. Any sort of overt raid or clandestine snatch would present excessive risk to our forces.

    So the only options available to our leadership were to kill him with standoff weapons, or to leave him alone to continue his activities. If our intelligence indicates that he is actively supporting terrorist plots against the US, then the choice is stark: leave him alone and let more Americans die, or assassinate him.. Under those circumstances, the responsible decision was to kill him.

    That raises the question of whether a trial in absentia should be required. That’s a thornier question. One can make a good case that any such trial would excessively warn the target of pending operations against him, and thus also could potentially cost American lives by prolonging the delay before the target is killed.

    One thing we don’t know is what sort of deliberative process was carried out in secret to determine his guilt. While any such process would be a far cry from what we would consider due process in a criminal case, it may well be that the exigencies of warfare against a clandestine terrorist threat require modifications to the basic judicial process. However, similar to the FISA warrant process, it would theoretically be possible to utilize judges to achieve some degree of due process.

    • aesthete

      months prior that the US was after Anwar, DOA. It boggles the mind to think that not a single scrap of due process was used in the assassination of a US citizen.

    • streiff

      I’m not advocating capture. I’m fine with whacking him. I’m simply against having a list and giving anyone “deliberative process.” This pseudo-legal Star Chamber proceeding is just creepy.

      We’re either in a state of armed conflict which justifies bombs, etc., or we’re back to the Clinton years of trying to arrest OBL and actually prosecuting CIA station chiefs for conspiracy to commit murder for trying to kill terrorists.

      • http://lukos.com Ed54

        Accidental targeting?

        Terrorist networks are composed of people hidden in human terrain, not equipment hidden in physical terrain. The specific individuals providing leadership and organization are weapons, just like a tank or an airplane for a conventional enemy. To degrade terrorist capability we must kill those specific individuals. That means targeting them by name.

        No list, no effective action.

        • streiff

          that isn’t what I said or implied and I hope to heaven you know better.

          • http://lukos.com Ed54

            … as an alternative to a list. That’s the point. I scoured your diary, but couldn’t find one. You just dropped off in mid-thought. So if you are opposed to a list, what is your alternative means for dealing with the threat?

      • richp89

        It does more harm than good by further blurring the lines between what is acts of war in a declared war and what is criminal. It needs to be deifned that when a person commits acts of war in the global war on terror against the US or any of it’s allies whether that person is a citizen or not is an enemy of the US and her allies and subject to the same fate as any other militant on the battlefield.

  • http://lukos.com Ed54

    “If you are a legitimate military target abroad?a part of an enemy force?the fact that you’re a U.S. citizen doesn’t change that.”

    — Michael Edney
    deputy legal adviser to the National Security Council from 2007 until 2009

    • miconservative

      This guy has been plotting to kill Americans and is culpable in the death of many. Legit target.

  • neodynium

    Thus, treason.

    And in my opinion, much rather have had him killed by a drone strike than let him go and be out there. Unlike many liberals, I don’t lose any sleep because we deny enemy combatants due process.

  • http://thecorruptworld.blogspot.com/ wayneinnh

    Target spotted.
    Target acquired.
    Target confirmed.
    Request permission to fire.
    Permission granted.
    Weapon away.
    Target eliminated.

    Sounds like the process he was due was used.

  • florajo

    They just need to freely surrender to the United States. Then they’ll get a trial. As long as they are on the run, there’s no telling what the capture might look like. Sometimes things happen. Things go boom.

  • miconservative

    I don’t care if this guy is a citizen, he is clearly an enemy of this nation. He has renounced this nation, plotted, schemed, trained our enemies (underwear bomber), encouraged, aided and abetted armed attacks that have killed our citizens (Ft. Hood shooter), and has incited countless across the world to take up arms to kill Americans. I believe in due process, but I don’t think this jack ass was going to come to New York and turn himself in. He was going to continue to spout his vitriol and plot to kill Americans from his hole in Yemen and who knows how many innocent Americans would die as a result. Good job Obama on this one. One of the few times I will give this President credit.

  • skorrent1

    Captured and subsequently tried and/or executed are beside the point. If you need to go back in history to the age of piracy, you should consider it more like a US citizen pirate officer on deck during combat. If he is targeted by a Marine sniper it is a consequence of ongoing combat. His citizenship is irrelevant.

    I personally liken it to the “targeting” of Yamamoto during WWII. His importance to the enemy war effort was such that extrordinary efforts were justified to eliminate him. In Wacky’s case, he made himself a valuable target, in part because of his US citizenship and the appeal this had to other citizens. Had he wanted his day in court he could have presented himself to be arrested. Instead, he continued to direct hostile actions from what he considered to be part of the “battlefield”. He was felled by the modern equivalent of the “snipers bullet”. Well done!!

    • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

      Modern war by modern means.

  • harshlightoftruth

    Anyone got the number on that? Some people talk about how expensive the death penalty is what with all the mandatory appeals and years of incarceration. This must have cost a fortune compared to that. And for what? Who was this guy that we prioritized killing him to the degree that we would introduce extra-judicial assassinations as another tool of the executive branch? Did he bomb the Cole? The Khobar towers? Try to kill Bush I during his visit to Kuwait? Not so far as I can tell. This was Baghdad Bob with a smaller microphone. Leaving aside questions of whether his being an American citizen ought to afford him some protection from this kind of instant “justice,” I’m not sure why Obama would consider him such a valuable target so as to direct the military and intelligence agencies to most of a year hunting him down. The only thing I can come up with that sticks is this is one more case of Obama burnishing his “tough guy” credentials. What a waste.

  • fortcollins

    In the Civil War, Union Col. (Brevet General) Hiram Berdan commanded the U.S. 1st and 2nd Sharpshooters. They targeted select, though unknown, Confederate soldiers during several campaigns, including Chancellorsville and Gettysburg. Because secession was deemed illegal, the Confederate soldiers so targeted were considered U.S. citizens, though in rebellion, at the time.

    Distinctions between the Sharpshooters’ targets and Anwar al-Awlaki obviously exist, but I offer this historical snippet to augment the discussion.

  • gunslingr45

    A deranged man is holding a gun to your head, do you want the sniper to take the shot and save lives?
    The answer is yes. I do not see how this is any different.
    Other than he was holding a gun to a lot of people’s heads.
    Full disclosure: I hate traitors worse than I hate Communist. And I hate Communist with a passion!!!

  • 2warabnvet

    was at war with the United States. Are some of us so stupid that we will not accept him at his word?

  • howardcountychairman

    Thank God we didn’t capture him and send him to Gitmo. The liberals would have really been upset!

  • kenchely

    This is not as unprecedented as the writer assumes. There was not a civil trial for any of the almost 300,000 Confederate soldiers killed in the Civil War. These were all Americans, shot without trial. Why? They were at war against the United States. (I am not debating here whether their cause was right, but they were certainly in arms against the US.)

    Ah, but you say, that was different; those were battles in which, in an inherently dangerous environment, those people were killed in a way that they could anticipate? Even that distinction is questionable. In 1864, during Sherman’s Georgia campaign, a group of Confederate generals were on a hilltop about a mile behind their line. Just behind the Union lines, the greatest Union artillerist of the war, Hubert Dilger, spotted the Confederate HQ through his binoculars. “Let me just tickle them.” He aimed his cannon and fired.

    The shell hit Confederate Lt. Gen. Leonidas Polk directly in the head, killing him instantly. Polk was an American citizen (he was the Episcopal Bishop of Louisiana). He was the subject of a specific targeting. Dilger knew he was firing at a place where the Confederate generals were–within three names, Confederate generals Polk, Hardee, and Johnston, he knew at whom he was firing.

    If you levy war against the United States, no matter whether your cause, be it states’ rights, the “peculiar institution” of the prewar South, or Allah’s holy war, is right, you assume the risk of being killed. Al Awlaki was waging war, and like anyone who wages war can be, he was killed. There are no civil rights questions here.

  • azmar

    As I understand it, he was born in New Mexico 1971 while his father was a diplomat and was a grad student on visa from Yemen. Normally, by US Code, a child of a diplomat is not a US citizen regardless of birth on the soil. After taking advantage of US education, they took him back to be raised in their home country culture where he learned very well to hate the US.

    If some would say he was a citizen by the misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment (simply born on US soil), that would not seem to be applicable if his father was a diplomat. US citizenship is too precious to squander it on those who bear at birth allegiance to a foreign culture and want only the benefits of America without the love and responsibility. One proof that Anwar al Awlaki only wanted the benefits of the US is that he claimed foreign birth to receive more than $60,000 of US scholarship funds as a foreign student.

    And this is the exact reason the writers of the Constitution required a “natural born citizen”, born of US parents with no foreign allegiance to be eligible as POTUS. Those who insist that anyone born on US soil is eligible as POTUS should consider the result in Anwar al Awlaki, Yemeni terrorist. Now we see how dangerous it can be to our country.

  • mspector

    The Wild Geese were Irish who went off to fight in various continental armies, but not against Ireland. They were honored as warriors and the national Irish hope was that they would return and lead Ireland itself in battle.

    As for the rest, I am of at least one-and-one-half minds on this one. Certainly, I shed no tears for Awlaki. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    But there is the question of targeting a citizen (as to the Civil War analogy, we were in a declared war, unlike now). That itself is problematic. The larger question to me is: what exactly are we doing here? Obama directs us to participate in military action against Gaddafi and never sees any need for Congressional involvement in that decision although he moved heaven and earth to consult the “international community.”

    Now we know that there is a well-established special operations command that is in effect waging war on a daily basis throughout the Middle East. Drones are certainly part of it, but are not all of it. Our troops are on the ground, firing real ammunition at real targets, and real people are being killed. It is more-or-less secret and the Bin Laden killing flashed a little light on it, but it is out there and it is ongoing.

    So we are not at war (no need to involve that pesky Congress) but we are doing warlike things. We won’t waterboard anyone, but we will target and kill an American citizen abroad. Why does this bother me? I guess because it seems like our foreign policy has become murky; our President accommodates Islam throughout the world but is clearly pursuing some level of military aims. Obama will not bring these issues to any forum suited for national debate, but we are doing things that cannot be undone. Given the corrupt secrecy that shrouds this administration, I think it more than due cause for concern.

    • streiff

      until 1921 or 1937 or 1949, depending upon your point of view there is a direct parallel any time they fought against the British, like at Culloden.

      The Civil War was not declared.

  • gritsandall

    if said enemy directs attacks against our country, especially if those attacks involve non-combatants or unarmed military personnel. Al Awalaki’s crimes are more heinous because he was a citizen. One expects attacks from foreign enemies. There is no doubt about his guilt. Evidence abounds. I have lost no sleep over his elimination. The liberal bleeding hearts here in America would never have stood for his being convicted of his crimes because he was not a conservative nor a Christian.