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Romney’s Difficult Path To The Nomination

"To win the Republican nomination he has to convince Republican voters he is not actually Mitt Romney"

By: streiff (Diary)  |  October 6th, 2011 at 12:30 PM  | 

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Jon Stewart offers the critique of Mitt Romney that most of us at RedState have been offering since 2007. Politically, he was at home in Massachusetts and I believe if he wins the GOP nomination — and I take it as a given that if he wins the nomination he will will the presidency — he will do more damage to conservatism than any president in the modern era. This is not to say I won’t vote for him but I will do so because the damage to my political cause pales beside the damage Barack Obama is doing to my country.

If you only have thirty seconds to spare, fast forward to 2:00 and watch until 2:30.

Enjoy.

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  • porkandcheese

    His positions are identical to Obama’s. Only a racist would vote for someone who has a record like Obama’s but is white. That’s what the media will say.

    • streiff

      if Romney is the nominee I’ll work to help him get elected.

      • porkandcheese

        The term was originally Democrats who would vote for a yellow dog than a Republican. The polls show there are few among the GOP who feel that way, especially for a candidate who fails every conservative litmus test.

        • streiff

          is better than any Democrat. If you can’t fathom that, you really don’t belong on this site because we support conservatives in the primary and Republicans in the general.

          Advocating 3d party or staying home will not be treated lightly.

          • notpropagandized

            Democrats are “prima facie” corrupt, thug operators, with no principles except for self dealing and power accumulation, anathema to the mission defined by our Founding Fathers who are now so derided as “old white men” and thus of no value. Democrats are clinging to the hope that our traditional system of independence, self-determination, individual reponsibility can be destroyed enough so that the dependent under-class masses will be its political base (and unwitting victims) for eternity. If it happens, then the only way back will probably require full blown revolution.

            One should NOT vote for a Democrat at any level of government, no matter how insignificant, for the simple reason that every Democrat empowers the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Obama, VanJones, ElizWarren, Durbin, Schumer, TomHarkin, SherrodBrown, Markey, ad nauseum.

            If it has to be Romney, then hold him to account for 4 years and then run against him again. Romney will be too embarrassed in front of his Establishment peer group to fix this disaster we’re in.

          • NeoKong

            I believe we already tried that.
            I don’t want to have to hold my nose… again.

            I’ll take Cain or Perry over Romney any day .
            Let’s make Romney the fall back position.
            To be candid I would rather see him switch parties and run as a Democrat.
            It would be more honest.

          • porkandcheese

            I would have voted for Hillary over Romney, and I voted for McCain because I liked him and Sarah Palin. Nobody likes a flip flopper. Ask John Kerry.

          • perry4prez

            What about a good conservative Democrat like Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman? We know that Joe Lieberman is a religious man, he is tough on Terrorism, etc. Mind you I am not saying I would support them over a rock-solid conservative but what about someone like Romney?

            We don’t need no stinkin’ Mitt Romney, and saying that we will vote for him no matter what robs us of our trump card early on.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          Gnawing at the ankles of men who wish to accomplish things.

          • porkandcheese

            Romneycare? Gay marriage? $50 co-pays for abortions in MA? Appointing Democrats as clerks and court magistrates? Ending a 16-year run of Republican governors paving the way for Deval Patrick?

          • streiff

            as you were too busy using your talking points.

          • porkandcheese

            Which is what voters will judge him on.

          • streiff

            on how well you pay attention… along with spelling, grammar and punctuation.

          • porkandcheese

            His money and his hair? Maybe if you’re the type who nitpicks the little things but overlooks the underlying message.

          • streiff

            who can ban people who annoy me

          • porkandcheese

            Who forgets to put a comma between independent clauses.

      • blooch

        just be wary if he offers to give you a ride.

        • porkandcheese

          NT

        • streiff

          not ride on the roof of his car. There is a difference.

          • blooch

            and the roof of Romney’s car is far better than the back of Barry’s bus.

          • rightwingmom52

            . . .

          • txpat

            Save that spot for his dog.
            If he is POTUS will the dog ride on top of Air Force One?

    • reggie182

      His positions are not identical to Obama’s. Look at the 59 point jobs plan. Tell me how that is identical to what Obama proposes.

      There is hyperbole and then there is HYPERBOLE. The idea that Romney is an Obama style socialist is beyond ridiculous.

      • porkandcheese

        There are a dozen other things he has said before. Watch the video from 2:00 to 2:30 like the author said. Look at what he did in MA.

      • http://lukos.com Ed54

        Romney is far better than Obama on the economy. Obama is openly hostile to business growth. Anyone want to argue that Romney feels the same way?

  • porkandcheese

    Sunday, October 02, 2011

    The number of Republicans and Democrats in the country is just about even. In fact, the gap between the parties is the smallest it has ever been in nearly nine years of monthly tracking.

    During the month of September, 33.9% of Americans considered themselves to be Republicans while 33.7% consider themselves Democrats. For both parties, those numbers are up less than a single percentage point from August. As a result, the number of voters not affiliated with either party fell from an all time high of 33.5% in August back to 32.4% in September.

    ———————————————————————————
    If Republican turnout is demoralized because they have to support a candidate they are holding their nose for, you are looking at a worse loss than 2008.

  • drivlikejehu

    I disagree that Romney would necessarily damage the conservative movement. Romney isn’t a conservative and no one really believes otherwise. Conn Carroll made this point in the Examiner today, and it’s something others have talked about: conservatives will be vigilant from day one, in a way most weren’t when Bush was elected.

    The rise of outside groups and decline in party strength is a crucial factor underlying all this. When conservative elites compromised on nominees like Eisenhower and Nixon, conservatives were basically powerless to do anything to influence them later. But the dynamic is different now.

    In some ways, Romney’s lack of ideological conviction is actually a good thing, because he cannot possibly sustain an electoral or governing coalition without conservatives. Whereas someone like Perry might go against conservatives at times because he ‘has a heart’, Romney would only do so for political gain. That means he can be deterred from unwise actions by the threat of political pain.

    Now all this is to day- it would be far better to have an actual conservative. But a President Romney would only be a disaster if conservatives let it be one.

    • streiff

      we have a motivated base, the most motivated it has been in my lifetime (my first presidential vote was for Jimmy Carter). If we foist Romney off on the people energized in 2010 we will lose them for years.

    • porkandcheese

      The Texas legislature passed the Dream Act with only four dissenting votes v. 181 who supported it. Perry has been elected three times in Texas. When he tried to enforce vaccines against a cervical cancer-causing virus and was opposed, he stood down. Same with the TCC. Perry has demonstrated that he is a pragmatist as well as a gifted politician who can effect policy by initiating discussion at the opportune time, whether it’s immigration, entitlement reform or monetary policy.

      Romney does not do anything for political gain, but rather to avoid risk. For that reason, he is not even that strong on the economy. That is reflected in his record on job creation in MA. That’s why Romneycare was a failure; it ignored supply and demand and what happens when your productive class pays for everyone else. It did not eliminate free riders, but put most new enrollees on Medicaid. He is especially wrong on fiscal issues, but the social ones should automatically disqualify him from any Republican who takes the party’s platform seriously.

      • reggie182

        The Dream Act is not popular with the residents of Texas:

        http://www.texastribune.org/immigration-in-texas/immigration/texans-want-tighter-controls-on-immigration/

        As for Romney’s accomplishments, they can be seen in both his political and private sector experience. For one he turned around the biggest state deficit in Massachusetts history.

        • porkandcheese

          But rather what to do with a sizable population you can neither detain nor deport. Perry is probably the strongest candidate on border security, because he has been governor of a border state for over a decade.

          • damianvincent

            Perry is not soft on illegal immigration. He gave a poor answer at the debate, and fellow Republicans have been cannibalizing him over it, but here are the facts.

            Perry has pumped half a billion into fighting border security
            Perry moved the National Guard and Texas Rangers to the Border
            Perry moved to stop illegals from obtaining drivers licenses
            Perry even supported Az. in it’s immigration bill.
            Perry moved to ban sanctuary cities, with emergency legislation.

            Shot now that I think about it there probably isn’t another border state gov who’s done more for border security than Perry. Remember he did all this even though it’s a federal responsibility, just as them, they sue anyone who tries to fill the void their purposely leaving.

        • streiff

          Nothing Perry, or the Texas legislature, did had diddly squat to do with immigration. Going to college does not change your immigration status. Look it up.

          • reggie182

            It’s not popular in Texas.

            And I’ll let you in on another secret.

            Rick Perry is not all that popular in Texas either. He is quite often underwater in polls here. I think people ought to ask themselves why that is.

            http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2012-presidential-election/perrys-not-the-texas-frontrunner-uttt-poll-finds/

          • streiff

            so if you are saying that people don’t like a bill that never passed you are right.

            The Texas tuition bill only had 4 dissenting votes in the Texas legislature and it is not an immigration bill. Your dishonesty is really beginning to grate and I’m not averse to banning shills of any persuasion.

            Perry is more popular in TX than Romney was in MA.

          • reggie182

            No. I never said that.

            I am responding to the notion that Perry’s DREAM bill is popular in Texas. It isn’t.

            “Perry is more popular in TX than Romney was in MA.”

            Well big deal. Republicans aren’t usually popular in MA.

            Perry has been a Republican governor of a Republican state for ten years and is not popular. Read the article about the level of enthusiasm Texans have for his candidacy. Ask yourself why that is?

            http://www.texastribune.org/texas-politics/2012-presidential-election/perrys-not-the-texas-frontrunner-uttt-poll-finds/

          • streiff

            When a legislature passed a bill with only 4 no votes, unanimous in the senate, the bill isn’t necessarily unpopular despite what your one article shows.

            Second. The man has been elected governor three times.

            If your point is that he’s less unpopular after three terms than Romney was after one, you’re right.

          • reggie182

            Rick Perry wasn’t originally elected Governor. He took that position when GWB resigned to become POTUS.

            Yeah he’s been reelected three times since then. He’s run against Democrats in the general in a Republican state, and had one primary challenge from Kay Baily Hutchison, who is not wildly popular herself.

          • txpat

            It is hard to poll Texas due the size of the state.
            Most of the poll sampling I have seen is small amount of folks, and it depends on where you poll in the state to come up with different variables.

  • ribeye

    Why does Rick Perry get to be the unquestionable, rock-ribbed conservative when in fact he was a former Democrat that was Al Gore’s campaign chairman in Texas and praised Hillary’s work on healthcare? You can call it a flip flop or you can call it a conversion, but isn’t it a good thing to eventually get to the right position?

    I understand how bad it looks when you show a clip of a candidate saying one thing a decade ago a sings a different tune now, but I would argue that’s true of any candidate running. Politics is an unseemly business. I’m not a Romney fan, I would prefer someone else, but we’re getting to slim pickings and sometimes you have to play the cards you’re dealt.

    If Romney really were the “Manchurian candidate” who’s a closet liberal, wouldn’t it have been FAR easier for him to run as a Democrat in deep-blue Massachusetts? He would have won easily and could have been his “true” self AND easily won elections there.

    My guess is Romney will be a conservative on the big picture issues that matter (like Judges, Spending, Taxes, National Security, etc.), but will occasionally let us down. So just about like every other GOP President we’ve had except Reagan. Unfortunately though, Reagan is not running.

    Conservatives can push a Moderate Republican into making the right choices, especially if we have an even stronger conservative majority in Congress (which is likely if we have a big win at the top of the ticket).

    If Romney does nothing but make Obama a one term President, I think he will be worth every penny.

    • porkandcheese

      He ran as an Independent. The only reason he didn’t run as a Democrat was because he couldn’t beat Kennedy in a primary. In the biggest Republican wave of the 20th century and after spending $7 million of his fortune, Romney lost by 17 points because he was seen as an opportunistic carpetbagger.

      • ribeye

        The Kennedy family owns Massachusetts, can we not at least give Romney a tip of our hat for taking on the contemptible Ted Kennedy?

        Again, if you’re interested in a successful political career, there’s much easier paths than being a Republican in Massachusetts.

        • porkandcheese

          Then in classic fashion, he was seen yucking it up with Kennedy when he signed Romneycare and bragged about how well he worked with Democrats.

        • streiff

          how did he take him on? By getting his clock cleaned while running to Fat Teddy’s left?

        • Xasteius

    • streiff

      he was Gore’s campaign manager in the Dem primary.

      His connection with HillaryCare was limited to writing here letter before the working group convened.

      Dishonesty is really ugly, I hope you know that.

      • tyman

        nt

      • ribeye

        Post Reagan, the era of Democrats being the party of “conservatives” had been over for a long time.

        If you truly had conservative convictions, you went to the Republican Party, and anybody who was fooled by Al Gore being a “conservative” obviously has poor political instincts. Even though Al Gore was more of a centrist than say Dukakis, are you really going to argue he was the vanguard of the conservative movement at that point in time?

        Regarding Hillary, can anyone say with a straight face we didn’t know what was coming down the pike? Everyone in politics knew some form of socialized medicine was on it’s way. Perry wrote:
        “I think your efforts in trying to reform the nation?s health care system are most commendable.?

        HillaryCare Letter

        Did Perry honestly think Hillary’s “reforms” would make health care better for the country?

        • streiff

          the first time Republicans had a majority in Southern congressional seats was 1996.

          Are you arguing that GHW Bush was a conservative? An idiot may but no one else.

          I was politically active during the HillaryCare debate. No one knew what was going to happen.

          Whenever you get tired of fellating Romney in a public setting feel free to join the conversation the rest of us are having.

          • ribeye

            and is now barely in 3rd place from a solid first place lead.

            This idea that Perry is some sort of second coming of Reagan is ridiculous. He’s just as much an opportunistic hack as Romney, he flipped parties when he saw Texas was going in the Republican direction. The base has seen Perry’s true colors on issues like illegal immigration and they’re abandoning ship.

            If you were “politically active” (whatever that means) and thought Hillary’s health care task force was going to be conservative, pro-market based solutions for making health care more affordable for Americans, you were incredibly naive.

            At best Perry was a fool and at worst a hack moving in whichever political wind blew his way. My guess is it’s a little of both.

          • streiff

            to not put words in my mouth.

            1. I voted for Reagan twice. I’ve never said Perry was Reagan. He’s much closer to Reagan than is Romney and unlike Romney has never disavowed agreeing with Reagan.

            2. Most Texas Republicans started out as Democrats. Some of them were really good like Lloyd Bentsen. Lots of southern Democrats were cultural Democrats because of the heritage of both Reconstruction and the New Deal. I assume you know that and are being disingenuous rather just being a moron.

            3. Don’t be an idiot, though I’m starting to think that is a natural state of affairs for you. No, we didn’t know what it was going to be like. Your position that it is better to have no input at all rather than try to shape a bill is just asinine. No one does that except for pathetic losers.

          • ribeye

            First of all, how about abiding by RedState’s posting guidelines regarding insulting other posters. Saying I’m “fellating” Romney, that I’m dumb, an idiot, a pathetic loser etc. because I bring up Perry’s past positions is hardly a constructive debate. Have I ever lowered myself to personal insults towards you? My guess is I would be banned fairly quickly, must be convenient to not have to play by the same rules, but I don’t need to attack the messenger to make a point., but you feel like you do.

            Perry has plenty of money and the largest profile being longest serving Governor of the 2nd largest state, yet Herman Cain is beating the snot out of him. If he’s flailing like this in a GOP primary, he’s going to be toast in an election against Obama.

          • gekster

            They don’t seam to have reading comprehension.
            He didn’t call you an idiot, he said don’t BE LIKE ONE.
            But that didn’t stop you, did it.

          • ribeye

            I haven’t decided, but regardless, I think we can have a debate without the insults towards other posters who express different opinions.

          • gekster

            Cain:
            I will say anything to get the nomination, even if I have to trash fellow conservatives for no reason other than I want to win.
            And I will get legislation passed in 30 min. or it’s free.
            (sorry, couldn’t help myself, just kidding)

            Romney:
            I look and sound Presidential, and I will also adopt the position of the
            people I am speaking to at the time I am speaking.
            You have to elct me, it’s my turn and I’ve been at this for 5 years.
            And if you need your pet transported anywhere, I’m your man.
            (coiuldn’t help that one either)

            Perry:
            I have run my state on the core principles I have grew up with.
            I listen to the will of the people who elected me, and bend to thier will.
            I go along with the state legislature when they vote in an
            overwhelming majority.
            Just don’t ask me to paint anything.
            (I had to add that one)

            Which one do you want.

          • ribeye

            when the primaries are over.

            Perry has all sorts of warts, you just have a blind spot.

          • gekster

            And you dodged.
            Who do you pick.

          • Right Reason

            Dislike Perry if you will, but to label him as either fool or hack reducess any cogent analysis you may have had to a bitter rant. At the very least, one does not compile his electoral record by being either of what you assert.

        • perry4prez

          ?I think your efforts in trying to reform the nation?s health care system are most commendable” – have you ever heard of “d@mning someone with faint praise”? That is exactly what Perry was doing here, you can practically hear the “but” coming at the next paragraph. This is just the kind of thing that elected officials have to do when they are debating one another outside of the campaign trail, it is like someone like DeMint addressing Teddy Kennedy as “the honorable”. Even though Kennedy was nothing of the sort that is what Senate tradition demands they do.

        • kyconservative

          Many people all across the South are ancestral Democrats who vote Democratic in local elections but straight GOP in federal races. The county where I reside in Central Kentucky is one of these. 86% of the people are registered Democrats, yet John McCain, George Bush (41 & 43) and Ronald Reagan all won over 60% of the vote with George W. pushing 70% in 2004.

          These people have are pure conservatives but they have no special affinity with the GOP and, indeed, many believe the GOP is far too cozy with big business and the corporate interests. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT for the GOP to nominate a conservative for President. The ticket splitters will enthusiastically support a conservative but some will stay home or vote third party (if there’s a serious candidate, ala Ross Perot) if we nominate Romney, Huntsman or another slick, corporatist RINO.

          As a cautionary note, the county where I live despite voting overwhelmingly for the GOP candidates in 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000 and 2004, voted for Bill Clinton in both 1992 and 1996. Why was this? Because George H.W. Bush sold out by raising taxes, appointing liberal Supreme Court Justices like David Souter, and generally seemed out of touch with regular people, Bill Clinton was able to take 40% of the vote and win. Bush got 35% and all those disaffected conservative democrats and a few disaffected Republicans voted for Perot. Enough of them stayed with Perot in 1996 for Clinton to be able to carry Kentucky twice because of a divided conservative vote.

          Don’t believe for a second this can’t happen in 2012 depsite all we have going for us. If Romney or Huntsman is the nominee and someone like Sarah Palin runs on the Tea Party ticket, then a bunch of southern states will be “in play.” Is that what we want?

          • trur

            nominee who do you think those Reagan Democrats in your County would vote for?

          • kyconservative

            With these three I bet voter turnout hits a record low

          • kyconservative

            Hillary outperforms Obama, Kerry and Gore and makes it a close race and Kentucky in play.

          • trur

            All the dems have to do is pull a bait and switch with Hillary running to the Right of Liberal Romney and the dems win again in 2012.

    • Kyle-MI

      Perry has held office since changing from Democrat to Republican. He as a record as a conservative Republican. Although he has always been a Republican, Romney does not have a conservative political record. He sounds good on paper and looking at his current positions on the issues but he doesn’t have any governing record to back up his policy positions. His lack of conservative record is a legitimate concern, but some people blow this concern out of proportion. The trillion dollar question for Romney is will he faithfully govern as a conservative even in the face of public opposition? Once in office, will he pull the government right or will he triangulate with liberals to maintain his popularity?

      In my opinion there is risk to the conservative movement in nominating and electing Romney, but harm is far from certain. If he is campaigning as a conservative it is likely he will govern as a conservative if elected even from a politically practical point of view.

    • damianvincent

      Perry was a Conservative Democrat 30 years ago, that’s better than a Mass liberal 4 years ago. The culture of the south was Democrat for so long, shoot even in Texas, as Republican a state it is, didn’t see Republican redistricting until 2002. Perry was however a Conservative back then, there actually used to be Conservative democrats. Perry never supported hillerycare either, he wrote a letter to her, before anything had even been proposed, asking her to keep his constituents in mind. That’s not the same thing as endorsing hillerycare.
      Also just out of curiosity, why do you assume that Romney will do the things he says now, when he’s so easily said just the opposite to suit his ambitions in the past. One or two changes, that’s growth, when you’ve changed on every tenant of the Republican party you’re a flip flopper who’s going to lose. Romney will drop Conservative values at the first sign of polling trouble.
      Think about it, Romney can’t take on Obamacare, being as he wrote the precursor to it, mandate and all. Romney can’t take Obama to task over the economy, as Romney was third worst in the nation in job creation. This is our election to lose, but the base won’t support romney, and without a ground game you lose.

    • txpat

      Regan was a democrat and you don’t hold that against him.
      Perry been republican longer than Reagan was when he ran for President.

  • florajo

    “Romney would only do so for political gain.” That doesn’t make me feel any better. In fact, that’s exactly my worry.

  • macphisto96

    So much of what I like about Romney is his record and his understanding of things. I’ve read books by him and books about him.

    Let’s not forget that what we deride as RomneyCare was not merely advocated and designed by Romney. He had help from The Heritage Foundation, which has now backtracked from it. I’m not an advocate for the Massachusetts model, but I’ve read all the alternatives looked at by Romney in his book, No Apology, and the man clearly has a great grasp of what’s going on.

    He has a track record of turning things around and finding novel solutions. And I think better of him for NOT backing off on RomneyCare in Massachusetts even if it would be politically expedient. It has not be implemented as he had hoped. Not everyone pays a premium as he had hoped. Businesses pay fines, a provision that he vetoed and was overridden on.

    But I see him demonstrate his understanding of foreign policy, I read about his thoughts on education. I see his history of being able to get down to the core of a problem.

    And I also read him look at realistic ways to fix Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Read his book and you’ll see that he already has thought of it.

    I came into this cycle wanting to run from Romney, but I’ve wound up feeling what I felt in 2008: Mitt Romney gives us the best chance to truly fix this country. We need to work to get 60 seats in the Senate and grow our majority in the House and WE DO need to hold him accountable BUT we don’t need to hold him to unrealistic standards.

    I will vote for Romney here in Florida in the primary. I will work for him to get the nomination. And if he doesn’t get the nomination then I will work to get whoever the GOP nominee ends up being elected.

    I will NEVER vote for a Democrat. I will NEVER not vote, as it is also a vote for a Democrat.

    But I don’t believe Romney would be a devastating blow to conservatism. In fact, I think he can launch us on a new era of fiscal responsibility, a smaller Federal Government, and great economic growth. I also know to look at his record as governor of Massachusetts with a grain of salt because there was only so much he could do with a Democrat legislature. I want to see how he works with a Congress that he can balance the budget with.

    I will have high expectations for him. And I do think that many of my fellow conservatives will be pleasantly surprised by what he does when he becomes President.

    I feel very strongly right now that we have been given the right man for our time, but that so many don’t know it yet. I understand why many within the GOP are leery and concerned. I pray that Romney ends up putting all those fears to bed and rising to the occasion like he has so often during his life.

    • kyconservative

      Your post sounds almost like a press release issued by the Romney campaign. You wouldn’t happen to work for the Romney campaign, would you?

      • macphisto96

        But I have donated to Romney and have read up on him. Done the same on other candidates.

        Honestly, I was excited when Perry entered the race but have been disappointed with how he’s handled himself. I think he could do a good job in office, but he has not been well prepared and may have let the initial polling he enjoyed go to his head.

        I like Herman Cain but am concerned about his electability in the general. He also is a bit gaffe prone.

        One of the reason Romney fails to excite is that he looks so polished because he’s been at it for awhile. But I think the polished candidate is least likely to make a mistake.

        I also think that Romney will win and can draw in the independent crowd. I’m not of the mind that a conservative cannot draw independents because we saw Marco Rubio do it here in Florida. But how you present yourself is a big part of it. The media will pick on any little thing you say and then apply the double standard, holding conservatives to a higher one and forgiving the liberals.

        Of the current candidates, I like Romney best overall. A few weeks ago, Perry had my consideration. But his inability to launch a decent attack and just how poorly he has come off in the debates overall give me great concern about his ability to stand up against Obama in the general. Bachmann is done and I’ve always been leery to elect a member of the House straight to the Presidency. Santorum is a non-starter, though I’ve appreciated some of what he has brought to the debate. Newt is a great idea guy with a ton of his own baggage.

        Cain is the only one right now that could convince me to not vote for Romney, but I think he’d be better as the VP candidate if he were willing to do so. I like the experience he brings and I do think his 9-9-9 plan is a great “outside the box” idea, though I have the concern of adding a national sales tax due to the ability of Democrats to later seize on it and jack our tax burden through the roof.

        I just realize I can’t spend my time wishing for Reagan. We have some great hopefuls down the line – Kasich, Walker, Jindal, Rubio, Martinez, and many others. I went into this election season hoping that Mitch Daniels would run – and I know he’s not the perfect candidate either.

        But we have running who we have running. I think Romney is best setup to win and has the best experience to actually fix what is broken. And if he gets the Presidency and doesn’t then I will be working to get a great candidate to primary him. I see no reason to like him less than I did in 2008 when he excited me.

    • kyconservative

      Your post sounds almost like a press release issued by the Romney campaign. You wouldn’t happen to work for the Romney campaign, would you?

      • reggie182

        Kyconservative

        Why is that? Because he isn’t another Perry-krishna who portrays Romney as the epidome of all that is evil. Because he wrote a well thought out post explaining why he supports Romney, instead of giving us a tired series of substanceless perjoratives?

        • Aaron Gardner

          ahem

          • reggie182

            Well?

          • Aaron Gardner

            Fools often have that effect on me.

          • reggie182

            Well?

        • streiff

          no one minds because he could, with a bit of bad luck, be our nominee.

        • kyconservative

          He was born into privilege, his father providing him an elite Ivy League education not accessable to most Americans. He went into corporate finance where the business acumen he is credited with resulted in layoffs for thousands of ordinary workers. When he got torched by Ted Kennedy in 1994 because of his background he tacked left and became an abortion rights supporter, pro-government run healthcare Governor of MASSACHUSETTS. Then, when he decided to run for President in 2008, he switches back to conservative positions on some issues to appeal to the GOP primary voters. Despite this tack right, he still holds liberal positions on a number of issues like global warming. He also seems totally out of touch with what real people are going through right now (i.e. his comment to the Iowa voter that “I’m unemployed too right now, you know.” He is a polished speaker and debater, which is good, but his entire manner, especially given how often he has switched positions in the past, screams “slick”

          Given the advantages we hold for 2012, do we really want “slick” as our standard bearer?, Do we want a candidate who will have an extremely tough time relating to ordinary people in the South which is a must-win region for the GOP? The winning candidate for the GOP in 2012 will be someone of modest background, a social conservative on all important issues, and someone with at least a mildly populist outlook. Romney fails on all counts

          • trur

            http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mitt-romney-the-inevitable-nominee/

          • macphisto96

            Barring the GOP nominating a train wreck, no nominee will have trouble in the South. It’s not so much a vote for Romney as it would be a vote against Obama.

          • kyconservative

            Remember that Virginia, North Carolina and Florida went for Obama in 2008. Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Arkansas and Louisiana went for Bill Clinton twice (except for GA who went Dole in 96) A strong third party candidate could definitely put states in the South in play. Also remember that 35-40% of the electorate in Mississippi and probably 30-35% in Louisiana, Alabama and South Carolina is black so any major split in the white vote could place all of these states in play.

          • trur

            the defection would be much worse than that. If the dems nominate Hillary, the rinos will definitely lose.

          • unclefred

            the black vote will be sitting at home on election day. Not only would the dems lose the white house, but several “safe” Senate seats would go down in flaming ruin.

            Worrying about Hillary is a distraction.

          • trur

            and that is why the dems will dump BO in 2012.

          • macphisto96

            Regardless of the nominee, anyone who claims to be a conservative and votes for the 3rd party is no conservative.

            The South will easily be won by Romney unless people decide to fragment the party and support a third party candidate that has no chance of winning. This would likely hand the election to Obama.

            I’m all for having a primary with lots of options, but I’m a big believer that we support our nominee even if we don’t like them. I did not vote for McCain in the primary in 2008, but I supported and campaigned for him in the fall. And despite my misgivings about McCain, I know that he would be an order of magnitude better than Obama.

            The problem I see with the “Not Romney” crowd is that there are so many people trying to not be Mitt Romney that those who oppose Romney have no one to gather around. And some of that is because at least a few of the people involved are trying to prop up their image for later runs, book sales, etc. I think you can definitely make that argument with Bachmann and Cain. There’s a lot to like about Newt, but I think at the end of the day he loves to hear his own voice.

            Now Perry, I think Perry got in because he saw the void and decided to step into it. I believe that HE believes that he can help. But I also think he has been ill prepared and may have believed that the Tea Party vote would strongly coalesce behind him. If he has another terrible debate performance next week then he’s likely done. Others have come back, but his repeated inability to do well in debates will sink him in the General Election.

            I don’t see a white knight coming. I can understand why some people like Perry, but I can also understand those who don’t. I have some friends from Texas that say he’s as dirty as they come – and they are diehard GOPers (one is a Southern Baptist pastor). There is the suspicion of cronyism there.

            And Cain, I know some here feel he ran to help out Romney. I’m not so sure.

            I know if I were Romney, I would work on pulling out the win in Iowa. New Hampshire and Nevada are pretty much givens for him. We’ve seen nothing from SC for a few weeks, so the next polls will be interesting there. And data here in Florida is showing Romney beginning to pull away in the Sunshine State. If Romney closes the deal in Iowa, it is very likely he takes four of the five primaries in January. He was within striking distance in SC on Sept. 20.

          • carolynr

            It makes little difference whether we have Obama or Romney…the end result will be the same. I’d rather go down with principle than cave into yet one more…hold your nose and vote for XX. I’m done…I’ve had it. If you can’t stand Perry…and btw…I have a daughter in Texas who disagrees with your minister and thinks he’s great and she’s politically saavy…the vote for Gingrich.

            Romney gets in…we kiss America goodbye. It is the same old crap….he will transform America…he’ll fix it. THE MAN IS AS CLOSE TO A LIB AS YOU CAN GET. HIS IDEOLOGY IS LIBERAL…AND BESIDES THAT…HE’S A LIAR. So…do we elect another liar in chief.

            Perry’s problem…he thought better of America. He thought we had the common decency to recognize achievements…you know…his jobs thing…the very thing EVERYONE NEEDS. I now see that Cain will not support Perry if the candidate…well, guess what…Cain’s off the score card. Furthermore…I don’t think he has the wisdom to be president. I used to like Herman Cain…I went to his events…I listened to him on the radio…but you badmouth Perry by saying he is the same or worse than Obama…you lose me. He served his country….Did Herman…Did Mr. Silverspoon in his mouth Romney…No. He helped create an environment for jobs…has Romney…No. Exactly what were Mr. Cain’s job titles when he worked for some of these companies? Does he know how to work with government? No. Romney does…he goes with the Democrats….in fact he endorsed Obama’s Race To The Top and denied it in the debates. He (Romney) went into Nevada and told those people that Perry was going to take away their SS. That is a lie…have we had enough lying.

            Look…he might not be a great debater…but you listened to the press and besides that…you never picked up on two of Romney’s lies. I want someone with a record OF EVIDENCE. I don’t want some stuffed shirt that says one thing and does another. Nobody will even listen to Perry…they’d rather listen to some pundit tell them what he said then listen to their own common sense.

            This country deserves what it gets with Romney…and I can now say this…should he get elected…I will be ashamed of America for their instant gratification of believing what they heard…not knowing that they were but a mere shill to get votes.

          • macphisto96

            when you ask if Romney or Cain every served. If you feel that the President had to serve in the military that’s your business, but I feel that is misguided.

            As for Romney, he has guided numerous private sector businesses? Has Perry? Romney has not built a career in politics and has built a fortune due to his success. Has Perry? Romney turned the Salt Lake City Olympics from fiasco into success. Perry ever do that? Seems like Perry has often inherited something that was already pretty good and just stayed the course. Talk about silver spoons.

            Romney worked with hospitals to save them money and pass the cost down to the consumers. Has Perry?

            Romney inherited a $3 BILLION deficit in Massachusetts and turned it into a $2 BILLION surplus by the time he left without raising taxes – and yes, he did raise state fees to make them reflect actual cost better. Perry do anything like that?

            Did Perry have a hand in creating and establishing companies like Home Depot and Staples? Romney did.

            To claim Romney is Obama-lite is an ignorant statement. A man that clearly understands the negatives of government overregulation clearly is far from Obama-lite. You demonize him just to justify bailing out if you don’t get your way.

            If Rick Perry wins then I will gladly support him because he is FAR BETTER than Obama. You know what, Mitt Romney will be too. At THE WORST we will see so many of the crazy regulations that we see now pulled back. But I suspect we’ll see much more. He’s offered several real solutions for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid – not just soundbites.

            And there are a lot of things to like about Perry. I agree with his basic core principle – that the Federal Gov’t is too big and things are too centralized. But everything I’ve heard about and from Romney, what I’ve read from him indicated he feels the same way. People extrapolate how he acted as a Governor of a state functioning under that state’s constitution and think that he’ll apply it at the Federal level.

            Under Ronald Reagan the budget and expansion of bureaucracy in California grew at about the same rate as they did under his liberal predecessor. I’m sure if the blogosphere existed in 1980 that many here on RedState would be decrying Ronald Reagan as a closet liberal, a Carter-lite, and saying that electing him would be the end of America.

            I think you treat Mitt Romney much like you would have treated Ronald Reagan. And I think Romney has a much better chance at inheriting Reagan’s legacy than others in this race now because he has a pragmatic streak when he knows he needs to have it, just like Reagan. He will know what to stand for and what he can compromise on, just like Reagan did.

          • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

            And herein lies the problem with Romney. He made state government more efficient – along with raising some fees. He didn’t downsize the government by so much as one lazy worker. In the end, what he did was to give Democrats the ability to further expand the reach of government in Massachusetts without having to make the case to collect more money, it was right there just waiting to be spent.

            I have no interest in a more efficient federal government. What I have an interest in is a significantly SMALLER federal government with cabinet level departments being shut down and federal regulations – and regulators – dramatically reduced. Romney isn’t likely to do that.

          • porkandcheese

            On what planet is it not in play?

    • streiff

      and I’m prepared to do that even if he ties his dog to the roof of the presidential limo as he rides down Pennsylvania Avenue.

      But there are some serious problems with your assertions here.

      Regardless of his business record his record as a politician, even a Republican politician, sucks. Just because Heritage was involved in RomneyCare doesn’t absolve him. Yes, something was going to pass but he actively worked to pass what happened. He could have said no and had his veto overridden. He didn’t.

      Nothing in Mass. indicates Romney believes in small government. Call it as it is, he’s a Rockefeller style, New England Republican. Nothing wrong with that unless you tell people you’re conservative.

      He left a GOP behind in Massachusetts that was absolutely devastated. Fine the electoral climate there isn’t great for Republicans but a good politician would have left behind a party at least as strong as the one he inherited.

      • macphisto96

        Let’s talk political record.

        Massachusetts had a $3 Billion deficit when Romney became Governor and a $2 Billion surplus when he exited. Duval Patrick managed to mess that up gloriously afterwards. He did raise fees to get there but did not raise taxes – and the fees that were raised were done so in attempt to reflect true market cost. He introduced the first sales tax holidays in Massachusetts history. He also brought tax incentives to encourage business growth.

        While doing all this, I doubt he ever fully got what he wanted.

        He has been very open about preferring incentive to penalties, feeling that people prefer working with the incentives.

        There are a lot of things that people have knocked Romney for too. For instance, I think some of the job issues in Mass while he was there were due to his inability to do everything he wanted. He had to deal with the Capital Gains Tax rate going up for the state, an issue that passed before him but had tied up in the courts. He had to deal with a legislature that did not want to pass a tax cut that he advocated for when the economy in Massachusetts began to get moving.

        And we can hammer him as a governor, but his business record is impressive. He is a turnaround specialist and has had a knack for putting good people in the right positions instead of hiring a bunch of hacks like the current Administration has.

        I have to wonder why people go so hard after Romney now when back in 2008 he got praise from people like Newt Gingrich and Robert Bork. Heck, Ann Coulter sung his praises loudly back in 2008. They all thought he was a conservative superstar, but now he’s a liberal hack?

        I’m not buying.

        • streiff

          and I’m sure, following the Bain model, that he can probably outsource DoD to India or China and save a lot of money.

          BTW, during his single term as governor the economy of Mass was great. It was also great in a lot of other places. There is nothing he did to influence that. The state legislature and his predecessor deserve any credit due on that front.

          And what did he do to help the Mass GOP? No one will ever explain why it changed the way it did and it was one place where a governor can have influence.

          • unclefred

            While he made a lot of noise about bringing the state party back and getting more Republicans elected, nothing much happened there. He did help Scott Brown in 2009 with this Senate bid, with staff and support, I am unsure how much that contributed to Brown’s win, but Brown did express thanks for the support.

      • porkandcheese

        “and I?m prepared to do that even if he ties his dog to the roof of the presidential limo as he rides down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

        Get behind him? You sound like his prom date.

    • aesthete

      1) Romney’s entire record in public service is the fault of someone else, whether it be Heritage or MA Dems.

      2) Given this, it would be unfair to use Romney’s record against him.

      3) Romney’s experience as MA governor for 4 years provides him experience that Cain, et al lack.

      Don’t points 1 and 2 contradict 3?

      • macphisto96

        Romney’s entire record isn’t the fault of someone else and if you listen to Romney, he doesn’t blame RomneyCare on anyone, but he will tell you who he worked with on it. He’ll also tell you there were things he tried to veto or some things he could not avoid due to court rulings, like the abortion provisions. Yet he hasn’t turned tail from it like others would have.

        Like any record, it’s important to look at it carefully and in light of the situation. There are things about Romney that would be far more negative if they had happened in Texas, for instance, due to the makeup of the legislature there. A Governor does not operate completely in a bubble.

        And I would say that the experience as Governor does give him an edge over Cain in some ways, just as his heading the Salt Lake City Olympics does.

        The fact that a lot of people who have worked directly with him like to call him “Mr. Integrity” doesn’t hurt either.

    • txpat

      Excuse me Romneycare similar to Obamacare is economic nightmare with cost.
      He’s conservative and has a mandate in Romneycare to force someone to purchase health care just like Obamacare, or as Tpaw called it O’Romneycare.
      I don’t think so.
      Give me Liberty not mandates from Romney or Obama.

  • adamd

    Once the ad war beings it will be all over for Romney. Most Americans are not paying close attention right now. Once there are ads on tv comparing Romneycare to Obamacare it will be over for Romney. Also the calendar favors Perry. If Perry wins Iowa and South Carolina, he will likely win Florida and clean up on Super Tuesday.

  • Right_Again

    The clip was typical Jon Stewart: somewhat humorous, extremely one-sided, and meant to steer your views towards what the left would have you believe. Is there a candidate who he could not similarly tear apart?

    Personally I’m not going to rely on Jon Stewart to shape my views. I like Cain, Perry and even Romney. I would have preferred Chris Christie but he said no. I will vote for whomever we select as the Republican candidate. But I will not allow the leftist media to influence my vote.

    • Bill S

      But it’s not like he lied here. These are Romney’s own words. The guy has a rep as a flip-flopper, and this provides the evidence.

      I don’t think any of the other candidates have similarly spoken of a “woman’s right to choose”, for example. The guy convicts himself with his own words. See if you can find the other candidates saying the same things Romney says in those clips.

      • Right_Again

        It’s not like he lied here. But he is extremely good at ripping people apart with their own words. I repeat my earlier question: Is there a candidate who he could not similarly tear apart (with their own words)? Maybe they wouldn’t be the same words as Romney’s but they would still be words that would turn conservative voters off.

        I don’t think any of the other candidates (except Perry) have accused conservatives of not having a heart for not sharing their views on immigration. I don’t think any of the other candidates (except Gingrich) have sat down for photo ops with Nancy Pelosi to support one of her causes. Every candidate has done and said things they regret.

        I happen to believe Romney was a typical politician who said what he had to say to get elected governor in a very blue state. I hope that his change of heart on this issue is sincere and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. Similarly, I intend to give Perry and Gingrich the benefit of the doubt on their screwups.

        • Bill S

          There ain’t no perfect candidate. They all have flaws. My problem with Romney is that I think he has the worst case of flaws of any of them. People have beat up on Perry and Bachmann and even Palin, and Cain is still to come. In my particular corner of the woods, I find Romney’s flaws the most odorous, although as streiff points out below, he has disowned most of them. The most objectionable one, however, which he has never owned up to, was the disaster of Romneycare. I hear what he says about repeal of Obamacare, but I just find that hard to believe, given the fact that he created a similar system himself. Let’s just say I have yet to gain a trust for the guy.

          But make no mistake, I would have zero qualms about voting for ANY of the current candidates come November, 2012. NONE.

          • rightwingmom52

            And I prefer a candidate who has been right more often than Romney has been wrong and had to switch, but I, too, will vote for the GOP nominee.

    • streiff

      Romney’s problem in gaining the GOP nomination.

      No one is relying on Stewart to shape their views, conservatives have had those views of Romney since 2007 when we decided he was less conservative than John McCain.

      Chris Christie is basically a Mitt Romney who needs a forklift to get about. I like what he’s doing in NJ but he’s not particularly conservative. He’s obviously a better politician than Romney but I suspect that on policy they would govern much the same.

      • Right_Again

        Your comment about Chris Christie’s weight seems to indicate some shaping of your views by the left. That’s what they too tended to obsess about when it appeared as if he would run. Personally, I don’t see how it’s relevant at all to the presidential campaign.

        If Romney had taken the conservative side of these issues in the past and was now laying claim to the liberal view I would not vote for him. Plenty of politicians have changed their views. I intend to vote for ones who now believe as I do. I don’t particularly care that Ronald Reagan and Rick Perry were once Democrats.

        • streiff

          check the video clip.

          My views of Christie aren’t shaped by the left. They are shaped by having 20/20 left eye 20/15 right eye. He’s morbidly obese. That condition speaks to a lot of things.

          I’d vote for Christie over Obama but don’t try to convince me he’s more conservative than Olympia Snowe because he isn’t.

          • trur

            disowned President Reagan when he ran to the left of Ted Kennedy and Dukakis in Massachusetts!

          • westcoastpatriette

            I don’t think he can beat Obama. He so reminds me of Meg Whitman who got her butt kicked by a lousy competitor–The Moonbeam Brown–in spite of spending a gazillion of her own wealth.

            The combination of their personal wealth (insulating them from the real world) and the never-ending, people-pleasing style of dealing with controversy winds up leaving people feeling betrayed and disgusted and unable to vote for them.

            Perry is the right man for the right time and I sincerely believe he is going to turn things in his favor soon And in a way we can be proud of. Hope I’m right. And I have nothing against Cain. Just afraid he does not have the savvy to survive the beating he will get.

          • anxious4change

            Romney is worth $250 million, Perry estimated at $1-2 million, which is pocket change for Romney. With the current sentiment regarding the super-rich, I just don’t see how Romney can be appealling to the average voter.

            What gets me, considering his wealth, is his $200K cutoff I mentioned in another comment. I don’t think a plumber bringing in $200K in a sole proprietorship where he’s paying a couple of helpers is going to appreciate being called “rich” by someone who is worth $250 million!

          • westcoastpatriette

            They are so out of touch with the real world and they just can’t see it.

          • trur

            not respect Country Club Republicans who get FILTHY RICH by putting hundreds of thousands of hard working Americans out of work which is precisely what Romney did as gov of Massachusetts and as CEO Corporate Raider at Bain.

          • carolina

            I completely agree with you. I pray Perry runs a great campaign. I want him to succeed. If he can’t win the GOP nomination, I will be very disappointed.

  • Right_Again

    He said what he had to say to be elected governor of a very blue state. I’m sure he would love to take it back now. What’s he done recently to make you believe he still feels that way?

    I feel no need to convince you of anything regarding Chris Christie, I just think it’s a little juvenile to treat him as if his weight problem has anything to do with his views, policies, or politics.

    • Right Reason

      Please explain how what you just posted constitues any sort of a reason to vote for Romney.

      • Right_Again

        n/t

        • Right_Again

          My first response only addressed your headline.

          In answer to your question, I have not expressed any reason TO vote for Romney in any of these posts, nor do I do so now.

          My point is that he is no different than any other politician in saying what his current constitiuents want to hear. I don’t know what we gain by beating him up or pretending as if he is the only one who does it.

          If the fact that he expressed different views in the past is enough for you not to vote for him, fine. But he really is no different than any other politician. And relying on Jon Stewart to support up the contention that he is just strikes me as counter-productive.

          Some recent examples of candidates trying to soften things they wished they had not said include 1) Bachmann on her HPV causes retardation comments, 2) Perry on his you don’t have a heart comments, 3) Cain on his assertion that Perry was insensitive on race, etc.

          Our candidates are all going to take positions or say things that they wish they could take back. They are politicians.

          Please see the earlier, top-rated essay by Scope about not helping your candidate by beating up on the others for more about my views.

          • Right_Again

            I just went back and checked and the hat tip for the blog which reflects my views goes to Sophist rather than Scope. It is a good blog post which everyone here should read.

    • streiff

      principled thing.

      If you think a fat guy is going to make a credible run for the presidency in a video age I’d like to sell you part interest in my unicorn ranch.

      • Right_Again

        I don’t see that as a noble or principled thing either. But politicians do it all the time. Romney is a politician. Why beat him up and pretend he is the only one doing it?

        As for Christie, we seem to have elected a lot of really stupid skinny guys as president. I wouldn’t have minded trying a heavy smart guy for once.

        What I like best about Chris Christie is that he can express why conservative views are superior, better than any of the current crop of candidates. Even if he wouldn’t have won he would have made the field better, just as Gingrich is currently doing. Independents and liberals watching the debates would have heard better arguments for conservative views with him in.

    • txpat

      He said what had to say to get elected.
      What do you think he is doing now?

      • Right_Again

        exactly the same thing, just as every other politician is doing.

        • Right Reason

          . . .doesn’t make it true. “they’re all the same” is a bunch of crap. I think there are relatively few politicians who have changed positions as many times, and on as many major issues, as Mitt Romney.

          There is a big difference between framing an issue for a particular audience and taking a diametrically opposed position on the same issue to suit different electoral circumstances.

          • Right_Again

            diametrically opposed to being a Republican?

            You give me your list of positions on which Mitt Romney has changed positions many times. Then give me a specific politician’s name and I will prove they are a politician too.

          • Right Reason

            Proving that a politician is a politician seems a bit of an easy task, don’t you think? I do believe I know what you meant, however. So let’s go. First, Jack Kemp, my onetime congressman. Now, if you want to start to qualify things by narrowing it down to current politicians, then how about Mike Pence?

            As to your first point, not necessarily. Depends upon the democrat or the Republican. Think Zell Miller vs. Scott Brown. But then, a party man would think all that matters is the R.

            As for Romney’s position changes, let’s say abortion (that should actually count as two, since he changed back and forth), the environment, TARP, the minimum wage, DADT, gun rights, gay rights, and oh, I don’t know, HEALTH CARE.

          • Right_Again

            I hate proving he’s a politician because I was a fan. Dole was the worst Republican candidate we have nominated in my lifetime, but I always liked Kemp.

            Anyway, living in a slightly more Democrat-leaning area he touted his support of affirmative action, rights for illegal immigrants and civil liberites for homosexuals. He also opposed attempts to balance the budget. These may have been his sincere beliefs, but they may also have been bones he threw to his more liberal constituents.

            As Dole’s running mate, he flipped his position regarding illegal immigrants to support Dole’s position of favoring the expulsion of children of illegal immigrants from public schools. He also withdrew his support for affirmative action to more closely align his views with Dole’s. He was diparaged at the time for switching his positions and some in the media referred to him as a “con artist.”

            I hate to admit it, but he was a politician too.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            and the reason he is not a conservative hero to me is that he presided over that horrible deal where they so-called saved social security with phoney baloney slight of hand. This perpetuated a huge lie that your social security funds were some how safe.

            IT was worse than anything Bernie Madoff did.

  • anxious4change

    for tax relief. That’s worse than Obama’s $250K, and it will hurt small businesses. It goes against everything conservatives and republicans have been saying since Obama got elected.

  • unclefred

    but the overwhelming majority of the commenters here will support,and probably actively work for, the eventual Republican nominee, even if it is Romney. Four more years of Obama is unthinkable for most of us.

    Before Romney supporters light me up, you need to honestly look at the polling data and realize that, after five years of exposure to Romney, something approaching 75% of Republicans prefer someone else, actually anyone else. That does not mean that Romney won’t be the nominee, but it does mean that most Republicans are in no hurry to accept him.

    With all due respect to his many supporters here, as far as Perry goes, he has radically misjudged the response of the nation to his softness on illegals present in the nation. I am perfectly willing to accept that he is knowledgeable about what is required to secure the Texas border and committed to doing so. However that does not give him a pass on illegals already here, his previous opposition to E-verify only now shifting to grudging support, and his pandering to a subset of the hispanic vote. Perry supporters draw attention to various details about his position, and the small numbers of illegals that actually have benefited from the instate tuition program. You may be perfectly correct, it doesn’t matter because on principal, the people who will be voting in the Republican primary strongly want the illegals to leave. Setting up a situation where they are denied jobs and services so that they self deport is the simplest method. Perry’s stance is 180 degrees out of phase with that goal. No amount of explaining, or apologizing will fix this. Perry either back tracks and fundamentally changes his position or this will be the albatross that sinks him. Frankly I hope he gets the message, because today with no change in either of their positions I’d take Perry over Romney in a heartbeat.

    If Perry continues to sink where will his support move? Right now to Cain. Yes he has minimal organization. Yes he is a bit gaff prone. Yes 999 has some issues. Yes he’s had stage 4 cancer. So what?

    Cain has a compelling story; He is a rousing speaker; When interviewed he exudes adult competence and maintains good humor when challenged. A lot of people like what they here. A lot of people’s main concern, and one that I share, is with Cain’s “electability”. Electability is a strange thing. I can remember back to 1980, when there was a large segment of the Republican party that was very worried that an aging former actor and governor was too conservative and to old to be elected. We know what happened once Reagan answered that question. Cain may stumble, he may commit a gaff, he may fail to fill his staff with the expertise he needs, but if he does not stumble and convinces enough people that he can win the general, Cain could be the nominee. The lack of trust that the average Republican primary voter has in Romney, makes this possible and as the original post indicates, this is not something that Romney can easily address.

    It’s hard to see how at this point any other candidate can move into contention. Paul has his 11 percent or so. Bachmann is over. Maybe Newt can get enough traction to continue to gain, but he is well known and so far the primary voters are not enamored with him. If Perry and Cain both implode he might draw enough anti-Romney support, but at this point that seems unlikely. At most Newt would probably split support with Romney and that is all Romney needs.

    Romney’s “last man standing” strategy has a weakness. He is counting on his opposition to implode or dry up so that he is the only viable choice. Either Perry or Cain can prevent this from happening. They control their fates and Romney’s.

    • porkandcheese

      Yes, Republicans want illegals to self deport. But independent voters understand the real magnet is citizenship. Once they have a baby here, they’re good to go. Perry and Texans realize there is no getting rid of them. They can either mow Mitt’s lawn or become a registered nurse. Perry’s opponents say they get money somehow in the form of a discount. They are paying the same tuition rate as all Texas residents. That is more money for Texas, a state with no income tax and where the sales tax and oil pay for college. General election voters will take an even softer stance than “deport them all” — something I’ve yet to hear anyone say.

      • unclefred

        We cut them off and they leave and they take their anchor babies with them.
        The 14th amendment was never intended to allow anchor babies. If we want to protect our nation it is time to get serious.

        • porkandcheese

          It doesn’t matter. They have lived their whole lives here, maybe they were born here, and they attended public school as mandated by the federal government. If you want to argue against jus solis, that was my original point. Citizenship is the magnet. But how do you “cut them off” specifically? At present, the children are citizens, can collect benefits, work legally and send money home. They aren’t going home, and the parents decide to stay here for better or worse till the kids are fully grown. The system is a mess, after all. Nobody knows who is here.

          • gekster

            All of thier known life has been here, yet some say when they turn 18, they should go back to Mexico.
            Yeah, right, go back to what.
            Mexico is now a foriegn country to them, and they would not fit in, let alone survive.
            But to some, it is ok.
            Let the sins of the Father be held against the son.

          • gekster

            To send these kids back to a “foriegn” land would be heartless.
            Send your kid to Viet Nam and tell them they have to survive.

  • trur

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/cain-says-he-would-not-be-comfortable-as-perry-s-running-mate-20111006

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    Sure he would be a better president than Obama, sure he would be somewhat conservative.

    But In my mind he would be another G W Bush, or maybe another G H W Bush.

    And we just need more than that right now, we need much much more. We need real leadership to eliminate Obamacare, to reform entitlements, and appoint the right judges, and to navigate our way through an ocean of red ink.

    Does anyone here actually, truthfully confident in Romney’s leadership or the direction of his ideology?

    • acat

      has been advanced on the left.

      I do think Romney would be more centrist – more in a George H.W. Bush vein – than Cain or Perry. That’s not a compliment.

      I respect Bush 1.0′s service, but while “stay the course” mentality worked adequately for the country following Reagan, it would be disaster following Obama.

      Mew

      • porkandcheese

        Romney is to his left.

  • sunshinek67

    how Romney would get the independent vote, when he has effectively chased away the Latino-Hispanic sector, very important voting bloc in next year’s election. Many Latino-Hispanic identify themselves as independent. Obama still has 80% support from his Democratic base. And those zillions that he & the DNC have banked are going to rip a would be nominee Romney right up off the floor.

    Anyone find it odd that Politico reporting Wall Street is backing Romney when there is an Occupy Wall Street Protest going on right now? Bain Capital made Romney & his investors millions while thousands of workers lost jobs. Reports that Romneycare is a jobs killer and has drained the MA treasury begs the question in my mind, why is this guy considered the best candidate for economic turn around?

    Someone please educate me to Romney’s record of success besides the debt-surplus achievement. That alone is not reason enough to get into his camp. And it is a camp.

    Team Perry for the long haul~

  • carolynr

    OK…I’ve read the posts. After the Indies went for Obama, didn’t object to the non-vetting process…they just wanted to be out of GWB…the fundamentally transform America was soothing to many people. The problem was…they didn’t know what this country was being transformed into. So..we have record unemployment, 1/2 the families on government assistance, fast & furious, Government Motors; Dodd Frank, Obamacare, Stimulus; Solyndra, the GPS company that could interfere with our defense, mega bucks on vacations while we went out of work, Blaming other people for his choices. I think you get the point and you could probably add a whole lot more. So…I ask…”next time the election comes up…I’m going to look into the record”. “I’m going to look for the proof”. I’m not going to let this happen again and I’m going to try to help others realize that we can’t afford to let an “empty suit” lead us.

    So…Romney…Nope-Obama-Lite; Cain…Nope- he’s made some remarks that are not called for, i.e., Perry and Obama are alike; Newt – He has some really good solutions…he has evidence…balanced the budget..held Clinton’s feet to the fire and left us with a surplus. He knows the in-outs of government…BUT…would he be a GOP Guy? Then here is Perry. I like Perry and right now…I will stay with Perry until he leaves…if he does. WHAT IS PERRY’S EVIDENCE?

    1. JOBS. Wow…that’s what our problem is.
    2. Against Abusive Regulation
    3. Passed Tort Reform – Loser Pays
    4. Healthcare Plan in Texas now – called Healthy Texas.
    5. Served in the Military
    6. No baggage as far as family problems.
    7. Wants MOST…I did say Most government back in the hands of
    the States…so that the people have more control of the govern-
    ment instead of the other way around.
    8. Wants Energy Independence
    9. Strong on BORDER SECURITY…Yes he is…check it out. Did
    not give Illegals driver’s license; did not grant sanctuary cities.
    Took out of the State budget what the FEDS are supposed to
    do…protect and secure the border.
    10. Wants the education system more in control of the States.
    11. Does not apologize For America
    12. Has the humility to admit when he was wrong (HPV)
    13. Can identify with the poor as well as the rich. His mother
    made his clothes. He is the American Dream.
    14. Shows conviction…in his beliefs and in his country.
    15. Wants to reform SS, leave those approaching SS and on it
    to stay and also allow options for younger people.
    16. Wants to reform Medicare – means testing
    17. Believes in Peace Through Strength and wants our service-
    people home from Afghanistan/Iraq.

    Now….the UNTRUTHS…or HALF TRUTHS.

    1. Yes, Perry was once Democratic…JUST LIKE REAGAN.. He
    did back Gore in 1988…when Gore ran on family values and
    the 2nd Amendment. Back then Southern Democrats were
    Conservative and Gore, being from Tennessee could only
    get on the ballot by “acting” Conservative. Gore lost to DeKaukis (sp)…ANOTHER ROMNEY.
    2. Perry is a Bildenberger…Does anyone know what that organi-
    zation does? It is a stuffy bunch of influential people who ask
    people from ALL OVER THE WORLD to share their DIVERSE points of
    view. Perry’s appearance and subject…READY…State’s Rights
    and Energy Independence. Do you think they asked him back?
    I don’t.
    3. The Dream Act. Well…kinda…sorta…THE TEXAS DREAM ACT.
    Not the Federal Dream Act. So, if you are a child of an Illegal
    this can be a person working in Texas on a Green Card or VISA,
    the Federal Government requires that their children attend
    school. So, when those children graduate, if they, along with
    bordering states want to go to school, they can get in-state
    tuition. WHY…THAT’S NOT FAIR…I’M A CITIZEN. Are you sick
    and tired of pushing one for English…I am. The Legislature..
    along with Perry would rather have a person who has lived in
    Texas for three years and has applied for citizenship to
    graduate with a better chance of a higher salary…which benefits
    the states and their citizens. Besides..THEY PAY…NOT US.

    Now…we have an immigration problem…we have to solve it…
    it cannot be solved by us ignoring it. How do we get these
    people out of hiding to submit to identification and further…
    how do we stop companies from hiring illegals WITHOUT
    PAPERS? Going to have to be REQUIRED to carry a card,
    going to have to get in line to become a citizen, going to have
    to learn English. Deport the criminals…THEY GO BACK..
    THREE TIME offenders on misdemeanors – YOU GO BACK.

    But let us not forget that we have no problem with the law
    concerning Cubans…dry land…they are citizens. Or, if people
    from Mexico join our Military…they get citizenship. So…we have
    to solve this…and the only way I can see this happening is by
    using a percentage per year.

    4. HPV Vaccine – That’s why we have checks and balances however, let’s put some facts on the table…even for Ms. Bachmann. First…”Innocent little girls” need to receive the vaccine before they become sexually active OR IT IS NOT EFFECTIVE. Go google it. Second…mandates cannot be mandates if they have an opt out. It’s an oxymoron…they can’t coexist. The Legislature turned it over…Perry admitted his mistake and I believe learned a lesson from it. Remember folks…Polio was all but a mandate with very little evidence that it would work…there was an opt out..and we don’t have Polio any longer. HPV is an epidemic in the USA and yes…you die from cancer and the treatment is for boys and girls…young boys and girls.
    Was his heart in the right place. I think so….was his process…He says no. At least he did not write a book called No Apology.

    5. The Fed is “almost” treasonous”. Well folks, like it or not, when your money is debased…and it is your money…not the governments….it is treasonous…forget the almost.

    6. He would fire Bernanke…so would I.

    So…is Perry one of these people that clings to his Bible and Guns…probably. Is he ashamed of his God…Nope. To me…he’s as Conservative as they come. Oh you might not agree with the immigration business…but then…if you were governor of a border state..what would you do? Their parents are working in Texas LEGALLY…do you punish the child and let it become a migrant and then bi*ch because they can’t speak the language. You answer that…someone has to answer it…it has to be solved.

    • avagreen

      *thumbs up*

      Glad to see someone else with the facts.

  • Tbone

    I sure wish I had.

    Thanks.

  • manny

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwwcAa6nHm4
    Romney actually promoted “gay marriage” — implementing it in violation of the Constitution, without legislative authorization. Romney called the illegitimate court ruling “law.”
    Romney supported Kevin Jennings? ?gay? propaganda in the Mass. public schools, a ?Governor?s Commission on Gay & Lesbian Youth,? and Dept. of Educ. “Safe Schools” programs. He issued proclamations celebrating GLBT “Youth Pride” events.
    Romney included Planned Parenthood and its $50 abortions in RomneyCare.
    RINO.