There is a difference between theologically correct and being a bad moral influence. If Romney believed that drinking the blood of human beings was a good thing, I would agree that his faith bothered me. Whatever the attributes of Mormonism, I don’t think there is any argument that Mormonism is actively teaching moral precepts that are actually immoral. Mormonism may be misguided in the eyes of mainstream Christianity in terms of salvation history, but those errors do not inherently manifest themselves in a person’s behavior here on earth.

Your disagreements with Mormonism are really limited to the theological sphere, not the moral sphere. So I don’t see why Romney’s Mormonism should matter any more than Perry’s accent or Romney’s hair. Some people will vote for the better hair, that is true. If you acknowledge that Mormonism is almost as petty a candidate attribtue as that, I guess I don’t have an argument with you.

This latest tempest in a teapot is just another distraction to shape the debate. Politico had to know how the Pastor would answer the question. He answered truthfully from his theological point of view. Had he said anything differently then he would be called a hypocrite to his beliefs. This is yellow journalism plain and simple.

Come on people think instead of react. It was a setup type question to simply get the gotcha answer to use against Perry. Shame on Politico for this planned smear and hit piece.

bigot?

to tell everyone I support Perry because he is the best looking.

to tell everyone I support Perry because he is the best looking…uh…just kidding

Red State’s article on this bruha is spot on. As a Christian, everthing I do should be informed by the Bible and a desire to be obedient to our Savior, whether it be work, or play, or yes, politics. If not, I’m simply fooling myself and playing games with religion. This is nowhere prohibited in the Constitution. It’s premise involves allowing a citizen of any religion to run for office and says nothing about the criteria we as citizens can use to filter our choices of whom to vote for. And to close with a word of advice: making your pocketbook or party affiliation your primary cause for casting a vote is NOT being faithful to Christ. Scripture places much more emphasis on many other things higher than those two–the value of life for one.

Has Romney ever claimed to be a “Christian”? Plus, the word has several meanings, ie As I said in my near comprehensive column this am

http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2011/10/08/2223/

The Mormon Church claims specifically to NOT be a part of the traditional Christian Church. That’s why they formed a new church and if some Mormons were to branch off from Mormonism and add new ideas and/or add to the Book of Mormon, the Mormon church would consider them to be a cult.

So, to be a member of the Mormon Church is not to be a Christian. Whereas to join a Catholic or Baptist church is.

However, an individual is a Christian is they, as Mitt has done, claims Jesus as his Savior.

Hope this helps.

if you’re to believe John 3:16 and that we’re saved by faith in Christ.

I’m not a Mormon, but I consider Mormons to be Christians with a book that doesn’t belong there. I certainly don’t think that Mormons are a danger to my faith when they’re in office.

What is Rick Perry doing having himself introduced by a pastor who calls Catholicism a cult? Or Mormonism? Clowns like this should be nowhere near serious political leaders. At best his “vetting” is sloppy, at worst he is trying to “dogwhistle” voters because his candidacy is on the rocks, but doesn’t want his hands dirty.

Mormons are overwhelmingly conservative Republicans, why on Earth would you want to alienate such an important group of voters? Republicans should steer clear of such divisive figures.

Mormons believe Jesus was one of several ‘spirit-children’ of Jehovah, which would go against the ‘only begotten Son’ part of John 3: 16.

I’ve met a lot of extremely decent Mormon folks, and one of my best friends was a Mormon, so please don’t accuse me of hating them. I’m just not sure if the doctrines they’re taught are in line with the NT.

….agree. I don’t think religion should be a primary focus for compaigns, especially at the primary stage.

But Mitt has a lot of political stuff that really hurts him, like his Romneyobamacare and record as governor.

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option of winning the primaries, by rallying the faithful on religious terms.

It’s a classic case of good cop bad cop, he lets Jeffress say his spiel about Mormonism and then Perry follows that with a line statement to the effect that he doesn’t agree with all that Jeffress said. The intended message gets through to the intended audience with a wink wink.

focusing on electing a conservative rather than John McCain 2.0

That’s my theory.

Perry hasn’t exactly run a perfect campaign up till now, you know.

This was just one more stumble in a series of stumbles by the Perry campaign.

The only significance of it for me, is that it indicates that the Perry campaign still hasn’t gotten its act together.

Now THAT should be worrisome.

The Summit choose who to introduce Perry. Perry did not have a say in it.

I could really care less what any Baptist minister thinks.

But, to the point, this story was written because Romney’s backers have been pushing the story out to political blogs as an attack of Perry.

I think Jeffress was right in his theology. There can’t be much of an argument about that. His characterization of Mormonism as a cult is off base but apparently that is the way he rolls. In the final analysis, every voter has a reason to weigh a candidate’s religion in making a decision. Personally, I can’t think of anything that tells you more about the candidate than his faith and the degree to which he practices it. This is why, as a Catholic, there was no way I was ever going to vote for Rudy Giuliani.

I am new here but txpat that is an excellent point. I was just thinking of some of the supporters of other candidates who didn’t impress me, Jimmy Carter saying he likes Mitt…Vince Vaughn liking Ron Paul and the stooges down on OWS having signs in support of Mitt and Ron. Should we disqualify them because of that?

But am a Mormon who is just tired of being told I’m not a Christian by people who have no idea and refuse to educate themselves.

n/t

To answer your question (which, perhaps, has already been answered), I paste this quote from CNN online:

___________

“But if it came down to a contest between Romney and President Barack Obama, Jeffress said he’d still vote for Romney, although holding his nose at the same time.

“‘I would rather have a non-Christian who at least supports biblical principles than a professing Christian like Barack Obama who embraces unbiblical positions,’ he said.”
___________

That’s an interestingly nuanced point Mr. Jeffress is making, don’t you think? I am not saying it is right, but it is nearly Jesuitical in its subtlety.

Peace.

and they are not a part of the Christian faith, period. They may be and are decent people and many of them are very fervent believers, but without getting into the entire religious debate, there are many more theological differences that excludes them from being referred to as Christian.

As to the rest of your nonsense and pity posting, if a Catholic or Mormon is offended by a Christians words, their problem. During my days in a Catholic church due to a girlfriend, I remember their belief that they were the only true church and back then wanted the distinction between them and Christians to be vast. So why the problem now? Same applies to Mormons, was not long ago they would quickly correct you if you applied them to the same catagory as a christian and still believe themselves to be the true faith. So based on that, why would they have issues or why would we care if they have a problem with Christians saying they are the true faith.

And no, he does not need to clarify whether or not he thinks Catholics or Mormons are Christians, he is not running for a spiritual position.

Mormons are Christians. They believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, they believe that he was the son of god, and they believe that he atoned for our sins. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has made it’s position on the matter abundantly clear. The inability of some to see the facts despite the overwhelming mountain of evidence to the contrary can only be rooted in religious bigotry.

Does Romney need to denounce the former actions of the Church of Latter Day Saints? The refusal to allow blacks to reach the same height within the church as whites? The massacre of people in wagon trains?

Perry did not pick the introduction speaker, the organization did. Perry also has no reason to denounce the words of someone else, anymore than Romney does. And although Perry has said that he doesn’t agree with Jeffress on Mormanism, you still demand more. I suggest that no response from Perry is going to satisfy you.

that doesn’t make it so.

What you are saying is the equivalent of saying Muslims are Christians because they believe Jesus was a great prophet. For traditional Christians the age of public revelation closed with the death of the Apostles. As Joseph Smith lived somewhat later…

I’m a Catholic, btw.

nt

nt

. . .as opposed to October 2012. I’ve never experienced a Presidency which so felt like it should already be over, but here we are, with another year left to endure. All these arguments are only to be expected, and it is good we are getting it all out of our systems before we must present a united front against a genuinely desperate foe.

,

we are about to be washed down the cesspool of history and so many people are stuck on stupid.

Is a net-negative for the Republican party. It’s like handing talking points to the media gift wrapped on a silver platter. They are always gonna find some hard-shell preacher who will be glad to give them an incendiary quote that can be used to paint the Republican candidates as crackpots.

Same ridiculous stories, year after year after year.

I’m not electing the Archbishop of the Americas — I’m electing the President. Mormonism from my perspective contains theology which does not qualify it as a part of orthodox Christianity, but there is nothing within the religion which disqualifies an adherent from being a great conservative, a quality citizen, or a good public official.

You know, people who are at church on Christmas or Easter Only.

Every denomination has some, they show up once or twice a year, usually with their significant other or a parent, they put a couple bucks in the plate, and that’s the extent of it.

Worse, this plays right into the hands of liberals looking for a wedge issue.

This is going to hurt, and unfortunately there’s not much that can be done directly to make it go away.

Mew

You do know that Cain was there, and spoke, right?

If guilt by association is a game changer for you, you need to rethink Cain and his apparent [stealth] association with Romney who he backed in 2008.

he would not do anything as Governor of Massachusetts to push his pro-life views on a pro-abortion electorate. Or more accurately, he promised no changes, whatsoever, in legislation involving abortion or other pro-life issues. This is why as Governor of Massachusetts Romney vetoed legislation to fund research on embryonic stem cell research. He also vetoed part of RomneyCare that made co-pays for abortions in the state only $50. Whether or not the legislature overrode any of these vetoes is not Romney’s fault or responsibility.

I’m not sure if it’s the job of anybody else to decide how true to his or her own faith anybody else is. That’s kind of a thing between God & that person.

We are VERY pro-life. And I don’t agree with Romney politically, so he’s not my candidate. However, the cult and “not Christian” things have got to stop. They’re just going to rip the coalition apart.

I disagree with tercel saying “Romney is not even true to his own faith”. Maybe on a personal level, but you need to understand more about the LDS church first. There may be some LDS that disagree with me as I am just a lay member, but for those that are confused about the LDS religion’s position on abortion I give you my opinion on the matter as a former clerk and seminary teacher:

1. If you are a member of the LDS church and you counsel, persuade or push abortion personally to anyone, you’re standing in the church is at great risk and you will be called to a disciplinary council where your membership may likely be removed (excommunication).

2. If you are a politician which allows or votes for abortion laws, the church usually allows you to vote according to your conscience in your representative role. The 11th article of faith states, “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them dworship how, where, or what they may.” Thus in making laws that represent the people, the church may try to persuade Harry Reid to vote against abortion, yet it does not affect his standing in the church when he acts poorly in his role as a politician. At any point Harry Reid breaks rule #1, he’s out of the church. God will judge Harry as He will for both roles, the church will judge him for role #1.

3. The church will continue to support and promote good values as it did in Prop 8 in CA, but it will not force it’s members in their representative roles, only personal roles.

This is why Romney has had multiple views on abortion as a politician, but as a member in good standing he was a Bishop and a Stake President (leader of a combined congregation of 5,000).

Many probably feel this is a horrible way to run the church, but the church requires personal responsibility for actions and allowing for the free choice of others. Yet, it will work very hard to persuade those opinions without challenging the standing of it’s political members.

.

Thanks.

Couldn’t agree more

I think I have the right to use any metric I wish to judge a candidate and I don’t have to justify it to anyone.

I don’t think labeling some tens of millions of Americans who vote their faith as bigots because they, rightfully, don’t see Romney as sharing that faith is a winning strategy.

I suspect in the end that Evangelicals of all types will support Romney if he gets the nod, but Jeffress makes, I think, a valid point. We aren’t at a Romney v Obama stage yet. We’re picking a candidate.

Thanks for laying that out. We’ll just go on laboring behind the scenes. We’ll vote and send in money, and we’ll go shoulder to shoulder on the socially conservative issues, but we can never be president.

If an evangelical votes Obama over Romney, if he’s the nominee, that would be a very destructive thing for this country.

I don’t even think Romney is that great a candidate, but someday maybe a Mike Lee will run. You folks need to rethink your priorities.

The conservative evangelicals showed up for McCain.

The moderates stayed away or voted for the “historic” candidate.

I recall seeing cars with Obama bumper stickers in church parking lots.

Perhaps Jeffries is a decent pastor, I’ve no way to judge, but he’s a blithering idiot when it comes to politics.

Mew

“To defeat Obama, Republicans are going to have to get a nominee that the base can rally around, and truthfully evangelicals constitute a very significant portion of the base and a candidate that does not chase the Latinos away. Period~”

The way the Republican candidates went after him on the Texas Dream Act of 2001 was not good optics. I think the “heartless” comment will help him in the general, because many Hispanics will agree. Punishing children for the parents’ mistake is heartless, especially when they work so hard to give back to society.

a values-free campaign?

Seriously?

Mew

make these statements after the speech. What he said is orthodox belief among most all Christian doctrine on the matter . Maybe they should have asked that he not speak to the press, but this man is very prominent in Texas and the SBC.

If Luap Nor won it’s likely meaningless *as a poll* but it’s interesting to see who spent how much.

Mew

It seems that there are more social conservatives with a libertarian streak than people thought . Either that or the RP people flooded the poll.

But RP? Really? I am a Socon with a strong belief in limited government, but RP has some really wacky beliefs and I woukd never support the guy in a primary.

If he were the nominee….gulp… I would be forced to make a Hobbsian choice. I would probably pull the lever for him with nose plugs. But I am praying that is a nightmare scenario I never have to face!

Don’t you think it is rather insane to expect a Baptist minister to lie about something this blatantly obvious.

I really find it incredible that you are calling Jeffress a bigot for having the moral courage to speak the truth. From the perspective of a traditional Christian, a Mormon isn’t a Christian because of the wide variance in what the two faiths believe.

As I say in the story

While Mormons are free to style themselves as anything they wish, expecting others to go along with that self-characterization out of comity is simply a bridge too far.

He didn’t say that Romney had a lower intellect, etc. because of Romney’s belief. In fact, he said Romney was a moral, upstanding man.

Care to actually give a number? You’re policy analysis of Romney was good enough. Stick with that. That being said, if Romney’s the nominee, I will Coe for him. Will you vote for Romney if he’s the nominee? And you need to branch out you circle of acquaintances. You mean to tell me you’ve *never* known a Christian (and for the sake of argument, to include Mormons) who hasn’t said Mormons are *not* a cult? I know good Christians of various dominations who’ve said Mormons are a cult, and I know others of the same subset who say Mormons are not a cult. I’m not making a theological argument either way here, but come on! Branch out your circle of Christian friends.

It’s a bad one. He has never stood up for conservative principles, and he never will. He sounds like a Democrat running this time, but just assumes that because he ran in 2008 he is somehow conservative enough. Does he know he lost? It seems he thinks he was just waiting in line for his turn.

I would vote for Huntsman in a heartbeat. Especially if he had never opened his mouth. He has a great conservative record, and I don’t hold his having worked for the Obama administration against him. Quite the contrary, I prefer his form of bipartisanship to Romney’s and respect his unique foreign policy credentials.

But I really find Romney intolerable as a candidate and as a person. There is no difference between him and Obama at all.

sad but true. All you said is true but none of it is relevant. And this story has become relevant not because of the media but because Romney backers have circulated it as a way to attack Rick Perry.

This unfortunately places a lot of us in the position of taking on an issue we would have ignored.

I soccer it would be an “own goal.”

While Mormons are free to style themselves as anything they wish, expecting others to go along with that self-characterization out of comity is simply a bridge too far.

Evangelicals had zip to do with any of that as the movement hadn’t started by the time of the founding of LDS.

Bujt to the point we aren’t discussing your politics here. Mo one, at least me anyway, is saying Mormons are bad people or they aren’t conservative. Neither is the case.

What we are discussing is the stink raised by the press, about which I could care less, and by Romney’s supporters on the Jeffress statement. As I said, he tosses the “cult” bit around too much for my taste but theologically he is 100% correct.

Seriously.

This is a sectarian fight being given political overtones and being cheered on by the Libs and the Obama machine.

If you don’t care for Mormons, don’t vote for Mitt or Huntsman.

If you don’t care for Dems, shut your pie hole.

Mew