unicorns and puppies and rainbows and leprchans all in one. It’s a great plan and it will be easy to pass in Washington! Oh, and he’s going to stop the seas from rising, too. Just like the last guy.

this tax could get out of control very quickly. The goal should be to cut taxes rather than find new ways to keep taxing. This is a bad idea that I fear would encourage people to sell goods “on the black market” because they wouldn’t have to pay higher taxes on those goods. I am glad conservatives are taking an honest look at the Cain campaign.

… that he is willing to articulate. It’s a lot more than the rest of the field. And personally I regard it as more of a conversation starter because as we all know, bills originate in the House of Representatives, not the White House so this is more of a negotiating position when he makes his case to the public and the Congress.
Cain is expressing a his desire for tax reform. We can disagree but at least he’s talking about it.

lying to me when he says that it will not just end up as another tax hike, or is he really that naive about the way Washington works?

“it is hard to understand the excitement this plan is generating.” It’s hard for me to understand the excitement Cain is generating. I realize he talks good, okay fine! So does my next door neighbor.

He first major signature plan, the 999 plan shows all of us the disaster his judgment would invoke upon us. A new nation al sales tax, just what the liber’s always dream about.

I am sickened, I see the same zombies out that I saw in 2008. Good grief, the guy has no political experience though he tried for a senate race and lost (can we say Cain is a politician and not a good one).

Cain makes many gaffes, but worse is he supported TARP, thinks highly of Greenspan, isn’t too concerned about auditing the fed, calls fellow blacks “brainwashed” gets involved in a racial bait against a fellow conservative, won’t support a another conservative if that conservative won the nomination instead, etc, etc The list goes on and on.

Yet we have the Cain Train, The Magic Cain and the media falling all over him now with zombies running about rabbling on about the Magic Cain Train. Good grief, have we gotten a tingle up are leg yet.

We pushed hard for Tea Party candidates and won BIG in Novemeber 2010, we are pushing hard to get rid of OBUMMER. If we PUSH hard for the plan then the HOUSE will act and when we take the SENATE and the PRESIDENCY we will push hard for the plan with those guys too.

OR is OBAMMA right and we got a little soft?

Your arguments that only Congress can create these tax protocols is true for ALL tax programs and ideas. So that can’t be a valid argument against the Cain plan or it is an argument against ALL tax reform plans.

Congress can change the tax code whenever it wants to. The problem is we do not have a leader that can articulate a position concerning what Congress should enact. Wait a minute we do have such a person! Cain!

You assert that the Cain plan cannot be enacted through Congress, but you also assert that we must repeal the 16th amendment! Which one of these actions is harder to effect? The repeal of course! So you support the more difficult pathway, but say Cain’s idea is a nonstarter!

What is the plan of any of the other people running for the republican nomination?

I don’t know if the plan can pass or not, but I sure am tired of hearing conservatives crying about how bad this plan is b/c it can’t pass.

Do you suppose the Democrats screamed at each other that Obamacare could never pass? I doubt it. As terrible as it it, the Dems got behind something big and they made it happen. Everyone on here has quit before we even have won an election.

I am not necessarily a Herman Cain supporter, but he is darn sure growning on me. This country is in dire need of major tax reform. Why can’t we get behind a plan that will take the IRS out of our personal and business lives forever. You want to unleash American businesses? Imagine if they had all the money they put towards tax reporting to reinvest in their businesses.

I guess you are the next victim of the RickState front page mafia.

This is just more poor analysis about the 999 plan. Fixating on the sales tax without looking at the plan as a whole. First of all, if Cain gets elected running on this plan he will do so with a mandate and some form of it will almost certainly get passed. Second of all, it is not intellectually honest to point out the new source of revenue without pointing out all of the streams of revenue it eliminates such as the payroll tax, capital gains tax, and the death tax. There are all sorts of ways Congress can raise taxes at the moment and this 999 plan would actually reduce that while at the same time making the tax code more simple and more transparent. I think its gonna make it more difficult to raise taxes because of the transparency and its gonna make it more difficult to play the class warfare game because of the flat rates. The brilliance in the plan is that stretches across the ideological spectrum to find support and disdain. Everybody has something to hate and to love about 999 which means its probably a good plan!

is quite prevalent here. Keep up the good work, fellows/fellas. You’re on the wrong side of history…again. None of you have expected Herman to be where is today and you still comment as if his chances are no better today than they were when he first started. Again, keep up the good work. I find it refreshing to watch the establishment crumble when someone shakes the money tree. Frankly, Herman’s success has been very inspiring to me and I will continue to “hope” for the betterment of our Nation’s future. It is apparent none of you who’ve commented thus far… AND REDSTATE- prefers Herman as the nominee…just so you all can be “proven” right once again… But such discourse is what makes our Country shine above all the rest, I suppose. SEMPER FI!

is great and might work. However, 9-9-9 is a dumb idea. A nine percent national sales tax is very regressive, as are ALL sales taxes. Ditto the “flat tax”, which sounds good but, since as income rises less of it is spent on “necessities” and more is “disposable,” it quickly becomes regressive, too. If we eliminate all other Federal taxes on income [all income, regardless of source not just wages] then a tax of nine percent on incomes below, say $100K would be equitable. Then, between $100K and $250K make the rate 12% and above $250 make it 16%. All income, from all sources, and index it for inflation on an annual basis. No deductions, oh, and did I mention, alimony is income? For corporations set the tax at 15% with no deductions beyond the usual costs of production as might be discussed in a college level accounting 101 course. No accelerated depreciation, no oil depletion, and so on and so forth.
Capital gain? Income. Dividend? Income for the receiver, business expense for the corporation. Interest? Same as a dividend. No double Federal taxation. Excise taxes? Leave for later discussion [cigarettes, liquor, gasoline, etc.]

Let’s start with Herman Cain. He never dreamed he would ever poll this well with 2 popular Governors in the race. He wanted to boost his portfolio and needed something catchy. It’s true he’s plan would be near impossible to pass but to say that once its passed, the Senate/House will increase it easily ignores history on tax increases in the US. Politicians and voters always talk about tax increases but its very hard to get even Democrats to vote for tax increases, so the 10-10-10 or 20-20-20 shouldn’t be what we’re worried about. I’d be more concerned about how it the 9-9-9 gets passed in the first place. It won’t and I can bet you we won’t hear about it again after Herman’s 15 minutes of top-tier status is over!

Does Cain realize we dont have a revenue problem,but a SPENDING problem?This is no different from raising taxes to lower the debt.Cut/Cap/and Balance would be better than 9-9-9,it raises 0% taxes,cuts spending,caps spending,and balances the budget.Hes made no mention on how he would balance the budget.,or cut and cap spending =\

This is an interesting poll because they asked about a two way race if the pack thins out to just Cain and Romney.

“If the race came down to a two way match between Cain and Romney, Cain leads 48-36. Cain would pick up Bachmann, Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum’s supporters”

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/10/cain-leads-nationally.html

Every couple of cycles someone proposes a way to junk the tax code. We’ve had the flat tax. The fair tax. God help us a VAT. When this first started the propositions flickered and died buried as either an unworkable gimmick or as unworthy of serious consideration. But they keep turning up in the national discussion. Why?

American tax payers consistently want a simpler fairer (more egalitarian) tax system. They want a system that is hard to fool around with and that reduces government selling favors.

I submit that, assuming Republicans gain control of the Senate and the WH, 2013-2016 will be a unique opportunity to actually accomplish wholesale reform despite the entrenched forces that have successfully stopped it for over forty years.

The TEA party and the internet, have changed the relationship of the government and the governed. The average tax payer has had his/her face rubbed in the corrupt tax policies practiced by our politicians. This has been especially onerous since 2006. This is the reason that 999 resonates with voters more strongly that past proposals.

If you review past comments and post you’ll find many that state flatly that Cain has no chance to gain the nomination for all the conventional reasons. They may prove right, but they are not looking so certain at the moment. Similarly, the notion that total reform of the tax code is structurally impossible, fails to recognize that over the long history of this nation, when the electorate wants something strongly enough long enough, the government eventually does it. We live in unconventional times, conventional wisdom may well prove wrong.

I concede that the notion that we can substitute 999 for the astonishingly complex tax code seems simplistic. Still sometimes simple can work. There is an old adage in engineering “as simple as possible and no simpler”.

Perhaps the time for real reform has arrived we’ll see. As far as trashing Cain for his plan, in my opinion of all the guys up there, possibly other than Paul who I consider unelectable, we are more likely to get real tax code improvement from Cain than any of them. Clearly Santorum asking how many people thought the income tax would stay at 9% shows that he is not the guy to lead that fight.

BY thesophist

Well, by now, you all know that I’m in the tank for Cain. Which is not to say I’m in the tank against anyone else in the field just yet. Well, except maybe Ron Paul. But that’s another diary.

So feel free to disregard this whole line of thinking as partisan pap designed to push my candidate of choice. Although, keep in mind that I want Cain to be your second choice, if he can’t be your first, as I’m sure your first is still infinitely better than Obama.

In any event, there is a criticism of Cain that has been leveled throughout Redstate that I find… baffling. So this is my problem with the people who have a problem with Cain’s 999 plan.

You can find quotes in comments throughout this site, but the essential criticism is something like this:

I like the 999 Plan in theory. But there’s no way I’d support a national sales tax AND an income tax, because we just can’t trust politicians not to raise taxes on us. It might start as a 9-9-9 plan, but will end up as a 29-29-29 plan in short order.

An entirely sensible position, to distrust politicians. At the same time, there are a few things really… off… about this particular line of criticism.

If You Assume The Policy Will Be Corrupted…
First of all, if the base assumption is that no matter how great an idea might be, DC politicians will find a way to corrupt it… why is the 999 plan singled out for special treatment? What makes anyone think that Romney’s 87-page PDF Economic Plan won’t also be instantly corrupted and changed? Or the FairTax that many people are gung-ho for, claiming that it is superior to the 999 plan. Superior how, if the assumption is that Congresscritters will instantly transform it into a basket of giveaways and boondoggles? Or even a Flat Tax?

If the starting point of evaluating any policy proposal or plan is that Congress will get in there and mess it up, I honestly don’t see any reason to support any candidate on the basis of any issue. Because we’d have to assume that his/her great idea would just be transformed into a steaming pile of dung by Congress.

Which Leads To… Vigilance of the People
One particularly amazing critique of the 999 Plan theorized that we’d have President Cain coupled to a Democrat Congress, which would then result in the 999 plan becoming the 90-90-90 plan out of the gate. C’mon people; are we seriously contemplating that we’d all go to work trying to get the GOP nominee elected President, but skip out on all of the other races such that we’d end up with a GOP President and a Dem Congress?

The larger point — one which I’ve raised — is that the only way that the 999 plan (or any other plan on any other issue) is not transmogrified into some atrocity is the vigilance of the electorate. There is simply no way to trust a politician — no matter whom, no matter what — to do the right thing time and again. Absolute the only way we as a nation can defend our rights, get the policies we want, and prevent corruption by politicians is to be vigilant against such things and to keep up the pressure on all of them to do the right thing.

I’ve always thought that the Tea Party movement was a Great Awakening of sorts that signified that at least a very large part of the population had turned the corner on the vigilance issue. People who had never paid attention to politics suddenly became activists. Folks who had tuned out the Clinton years, the Bush years, even the Reagan and Carter years suddenly educated themselves on the issues, took to the streets, organized, and started to make their desires known.

The critique of 999 plan on “implementation” grounds simply assumes that these people — you and me — would work our tails off to win the election in 2012, and then go back to sleep. “Whew, we got Cain/Perry/Romney/Whomever into the White House! Our job is done here!”

If that’s true, then we’re all wasting our time. I like Cain; I trust Cain; I want President Cain. But I do NOT trust him enough to lay it all down after the election and go back to watching American Idol. No, sorry. I’ll trust him, but will stay on top of what he actually does once in office to make sure that he does what he promised, that his 999 plan doesn’t transmogrify into something bizarre, and so on and so forth. As Reagan once said, “Trust, but verify.”

Isn’t this the lesson of the past 40-50 years? That if we the people tune out government, bad things happen? And we find ourselves suddenly wondering, “How the hell did we get here?” Corruption, like rust, starts off small and hard to notice. And like rust, we can’t wait until the damn thing has taken over half of the car before working on it.

To paraphrase Milton Friedman, it isn’t so much that we need to elect the right people, but that we need to make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. By extension, we need to make it politically painful for even the right people to do the wrong thing. And the only way to create that environment is through vigilance.

No one told me this was going to be easy.

Which Leads To… Why Cain Is Great
Surprise! Well, not really, I’m sure.

I’m likely not paying enough attention to all the other candidates, but I have to say, of all of the people in the race today, only Cain gives me the impression that he gets this crucial fact about the relationship between government and the governed: vigilance.

Watch this video of Cain speaking to supporters in Orlando before the Florida Straw Poll. It’s a homemade video so the sound and camera work aren’t the best, but you can still hear him clearly. Notice how he talks about needing the people to apply the heat so that Congress will see the light. Now watch this homemade video from Smart Girl Summit 2011, where he lays out how exactly he’s going to get his 999 plan implemented. (Yes, the sound and picture are not great.) He makes it plain that he’s going to explain the plan to the American people, and that the American people will be the ones demanding that their elected representatives do the right thing.

“All I can do is tee it up, and make sure y’all understand it…. If people understand it, they will support it and demand it.”

This is exactly the stance of a consumer-oriented business executive. When you’re selling burgers and pizza to average Americans, you can’t dictate to them what they should want. You have to listen to what consumers want, create that product or service, explain through advertising and marketing that what you’ve got is what they want, and then hope they demand your product.

Even before he ran, for example at the 2009 Redstate Gathering, Herman Cain has been hammering home to those of us in the room our need to be Informed, be Involved, and be Inspired. Not just for a year or two, but forever.

So many of the other candidates seem to me to be saying, “Listen, elect me and I’ll make sure these problems go away. You can relax, once I’m in office.” It is the approach of the professional elite, like my accountant: Hire me, and you won’t have to worry about complicated IRS tax rules, because I’ll take care of it for you; because I know more than you do — I’m an expert. And why not? Romney is an incredibly smart private equity investment operators. Bachmann was an accomplished tax lawyer. Paul is a medical doctor. Gingrich has been Speaker of the House, and has a Ph.D. in history. Their professional lives revolved around other elites, or in being the expert who takes care of a client.

None of them ever had to organize, mobilize, inspire, and somehow get a large group of average Americans to believe in a vision, to carry out tasks, and to work together to succeed. Cain did just that in his business career, most of which was spent in the fast food industry. Think it’s hard to organize activists and voters? Imagine how hard it was to organize Burger King workers and to get them to move in the right direction, together, as a company.

It’s one reason why I believe in the Cain candidacy: the guy isn’t running to give us anything; he’s running to make us demand things we want.

Criticize The Plan On Its Own Merits
Bottomline is that I would appreciate any criticism of any plan — whether it’s Cain’s 999 plan, or Romney’s detailed plan, or any other plan that candidates will put forth — on its own merits. We can’t have the central criticism of a plan be, “Well, that plan wouldn’t allow me to go back to dreamland where I don’t have to worry what the politicians are up to.”

For example, you could reasonably argue that the 999 plan’s national sales tax component would create a larger bureaucracy. You could argue that regressive taxation is immoral (the Lib/Prog position). You could maybe argue that corporations don’t deserve tax breaks. Whatever you want to argue is fine, but let’s have it be on the substance of the plan on its own merits, rather than on whether Congress will corrupt the hell out of it or not.

That isn’t fair. And it betrays a lack of commitment to pay the price for liberty: vigilance, eternal vigilance.

No matter who is in office.

-TS

between a future Congress tinkering with 9-9-9 or any other element of our lives. we must remain active and alert to prevent such future action.

even without a sales tax, there is absolutely nothing to prevent Congress from enacting new, higher tax rates except for the public fury which would be generated.

what i do not understand is why so many people on this website are afraid to try something new?? it’s not like the tax system isn’t broke already…….

flat tax will not pass in a single effort….there will have to be a bridge between our messed up tax system today and a fair tax in the future….i think 9-9-9 is as good a method to span this gap as any.

I’d be glad to see a contrast and comparison between the two. But until such time, I’m still behind Cain at this point, primarily because he’s more Conservative across the spectrum than Romney, Perry isn’t getting support at a national level yet and I want to see Conservatism win.

At least the man has offered a plan. I keep hearing the same, tired ideas from a majority of the other candidates. Some of them have offered NOTHING but criticism.

The fact that everyone is too “scared” to try something new because “the boogeyman” (aka, politicians) will corrupt any new idea clearly shows me that the Republic is lost. WE THE PEOPLE have allowed ourselves to become slaves to a tyrannical central government, but we keep trying to transfer blame to “the system.”

We either get off of our collective a$$es and take back control of our country or we sell out our ancestors and our children and accept the shackles of slavery.

Like it or not, his plan – even if enacted as articulated – would increase deficits by $200-250 billion per year, at least in the early years.

That means CERTAIN further downgrading of our credit rating, interest costs go up, swelling deficits even more. Of this there is no doubt. Calculators do not lie.

Even if we survived that, any delay in the super-duper-economic boom Cain says his plan will inspire, any lessening of the heights of it, will just make matters worse.

It doesn’t add up. Sorry.

for no other reason than it hurts Perry. The Romney camp and establishment types have decided that destroying Cain will be easy, they just need him taking votes from Perry. Think about this, what would happen to either Perry’s or Cains numbers if one of them dropped out. Some one would be running double that Romney is. Everyone should know that Cain is not going to be president, he has become a tool to use to get Romney elected.

The funny thing that happen last night is Perry’s camp did not fall for the establishments trap. They want Perry to come in all fired up, that way they can call him a loose cannon. They know if he stays on message, then only Cain can help Romney. Cain did not go after Romney very hard.

Every time someone calls Romney out on something, he just changes the subject, then the media elitist say he handled it well. Did you see his face when they stumped him on the hypothetical. Romney came off looking very petty; but all the big media types keep saying he looked steady.

Perry is going to talk about energy, that will create jobs.

Perry will talk about taxes, and it will be real, not Cain’s pony show.

Everyone thought huntsman’s joke was stupid, but hear me out.

It has been reported recently that Cain was not really involved in the business aspect of making God fathers successful, he was more involved in the marketing. Now what does a market guy for a Pizza joint going to do, come up with some catchy saying that makes people want to buy Pizza. Thats why when Huntsman said it sounded like a price to a pizza, it made sense. Cain is drawing on his experience, but its to market himself. This guy has no business being any where near the Oval Office. Cain for president, can we get real now. Cains sole role in this race is to help Romney get the nomination, if you are a Cain fan, then you should think hard about what has happened. Romney is going to win unless people get around Perry, its as simple as that. Open your mind until at least when you see his economic plan, not just the Friday speech, the whole thing. Remember, we have three months.

Let’s scrape the whole tax system and start over

In the first place it is probably not politically possible. In the second place, as we have discussed here many times, No introduction of sales taxes on the national level should be attempted until repeal of the income tax amendment.

And even if the plan by de jure’ capped increases, there is no law that can bind a future congress.

and he is not the only person pointing this out. Other prominent conservatives have made the same points. When you come up with a plan, you have to take into consideration what it could turn into when the government gets its mits on it. Not just now, but in the future.

Many of the financial boondoggles and entitlements began with good “intentions” and look where we are today.

Tax reform is needed, but this plan is not the way to go.

Cain is near the top now and he will have to face serious questions like anyone else. Some concerns for me regarding him have emerged lately with his gaffes and regarding his electability outside conservative circles. I recently spoke with a friend who mentioned to me that several of her colleagues who are conservative are not talking about him at all. I wonder if outside the “politically involved” Cain plays well. It was something I honestly had not thought about before.

Is the argument against 999 too broad?

Why eliminate deductions for a lower rate when we know the rates will just come back up? Reagan cut out deductions (see credit card interest) in exchange for lower rates. Rates were subsequently raised, and the eliminated deductions stayed eliminated. I still think the tradeoff made sense.

Isn’t this argument an argument that cuts against any kind of real reform?

I am not a fan of a high sales tax for reasons of compliance monitoring. However, in terms of the politics of raising rates, it is far harder to raise a tax rate that EVERYONE pays than it is to raise a rate limited to a particular bracket.

To be against the 999 plan because of what future politicians will try to do is be against a lot of improvements to the SQ.

Cain actually got too fancy with the 999 plan.

A flat tax rate (pick whatever rate you want..) would have made more sense, and would not bring up the ugly sales tax.

Even a plan with say, 3 different tax rates, would make more sense.

I like Cain a lot, and if I had to vote today I probably would pull the lever for him…but 999 may end up being an albatross.

transition to the Fair Tax. Quoting from his website:

Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
- The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
- It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
- The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.

Why is Romney still attacking Perry about the Mormon flap?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/12/romney-criticizes-perry-again-over-supporter%E2%80%99s-comments-regarding-mormonism/

Oh, he says ‘only charitable contributions’. Then… mortgage deductions will be included.. then, State and local taxes.. then Medical.. then..

Oh.. and then.. special tax credits against both the Sales Tax and the Income Tax for the “poor’. Think EITC on steriods.

Cain will *never* get the 9-9-9 plan impemented. If Cain wins the nomination, I can see Obama saying “Herman Cain wants to raise EVERYONE’S taxes. by having a National Sales Tax… I don’t… I only want to raise taxes on the millionaires and billionaires. Plus, he wants to LOWER taxes on those greedy Corporations AND the millionaires and billionaires!!!!!” /Obama Preacher-style Voice

Well, you get the picture. I hope.

This 9-9-9 Plan is a non-starter for me.

Full Disclosure – Yes, I am a CPA. However, I do not prepare income tax returns except mine. I’m a CFO. I have no dog in the simplify income taxes debate. I’m also not in favor of the flat tax for the same reasons as the 9% income tax proposal.

We all know it. Hermain Cain is officially the Mike Huckabee of this race. I think he’ll finish 2nd. You need organization and money neither of which Cain has. He is raising his national profile and doing a great job. He will definitely get some kind of position with Mitt, be it the VP nod or some cabinet position.

The rest of the candidates are just a waste of time. I am tired of hearing Rick Santorum take shots at everybody. None of these people are in this race. Perry is barely hanging on as #3 and then it’s a laugher after that.

I don’t understand why we need all of these faux candidates. Maybe they make the real upper tier better? I suppose maybe. I like Cain alot, I wish he had been able to like really make a run for this. I think he will sell some books and net out a win. But like Huckabee, winning for Cain is getting a high position in Mitt’s cabinet or a TV show or something.

So that leaves us with Mitt. At least he’s been impressive. I mean we all have qualms with how exactly conservative this guy is but if I may have 2 quick ‘pluses’ they would be a) He is a legit debater – he has really raise his game which is very necessary to win this deal. b) he is independent friendly, also very important in this race.

I know we want our little champion Cain or Paul or whoever to rise to the top but it’s not going to happen. And maybe you’ll be frustrated but NOTHING will be as bad if we have to wake up to a freaking re-election of the worst president ever. That will get us all to the ballot box in the end.

are saying this race is pretty much over because Romney is running away with this. They know because conservatives are splintered, Romney did not look good to me, because everything he says is a lie and a distortion.

The establishment knows they are winning, even though Romney holds only a quarter of the votes. As long as there are 7 people splitting the rest, Romney Wins

Check out the impressive and ever-expaning archive of Mitt’s flip-flops on Leftist websites. All documented and lots of video!

No thanks, Mittens (D-Pick Your State)

like past candidates, by proposing things that he has no authority to change. Any change in the tax structure will have to be initiated in Congress. Understand he does have the veto and must sign legislation, but it galls me when candidates for president say they are going to do things that are beyond their constitutional duties. And why? Just to get elected. Like candidates that propose changes to our educational system even though the Constitution does not give that authority to the president (or Congress). Just to hoodwink the populace into voting for them.

and realize it would be stupid to nominate someone for POTUS with no political experience. It is stupid to think that our current politicians would give up the power they have with the current taxation system. It is stupid to think that senior citizens on Social Security want a 9% national sales tax.

If I had my way, the federal government would eliminate corporate taxes entirely since those costs are passed on to the consumer. I would also eliminate corporate political donations. What better way to eliminate crony capitalism? However, I am stupid for wasting my time thinking that our current politicians would give up their most lucrative retirement program.

It is stupid to not realize that the county club GOP elites are demanding that we nominate Romney. It is stupid to think that there is any other candidate that is better as our nominee for POTUS than Governor Perry. Everyone needs to wake up to the realities.

the super committee will have devised a plan to cut spending and balance the budget with a combination of tax cuts, changes, eliminations, and increases.
We will not need any presidential candidates “plan” after that. At the end of July Congress voted to save the country from financial disaster with a plan that will guarantee prosperity forever. Isn’t that how you all take it?

it begins:

Cain: I didn’t realize in 2005 that the housing bubble existed

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/12/cain-i-didnt-realize-in-2005-that-the-housing-bubble-existed/

I think the main “problem” with Cain’s plan is just that Cain is taking votes from Rick Perry, that’s why there’s all the hyperventilating. Perry’s campaign is going down in flames and his crew is getting desperate. It’s obvious the Perrybots just want to take down Cain by any means necessary, even if it means being intellectually dishonest regarding conservative principles.

The main argument against this plan is “what if liberals screw it up?” Isn’t that always in the cards? I’m certainly not going to hold back conservative reforms like this because I’m a afraid a liberal down the road might screw up a positive change for this country. That’s like being against a flat income tax because liberals might some day raise it. So instead, we’re just going to sit on our hands with the current messed up tax code?

The biggest problems with the current tax code is it’s overly complex, it’s too top heavy, and there’s too many free riders. This plan addresses all of these concerns.

I want to see Democrats try and raise a national sales tax. Politically, it would be the best thing on Earth for the GOP because it would hit everyone. No more of this picking and choosing winners and losers, it’s a tax increase that would be immediate, transparent, and universal. You see how hard it is for states to try and pass tax laws that collect on internet sales. It’s a loser even in the Bluest of states with many residents that don’t even purchase on the internet.

I know for me personally, this would greatly lower my tax burden, in addition, it would make compliance far easier. The people who are fearing a tax increase are the freeloaders that currently pay nothing in federal taxes.

This gives us insight into Cain’s abilities on economic issues, and how he would
Go about trying to solve them.
The more information I gleam about Cain the more concerns I have.

Dean Clancy who posted this very same argument against 999 on Freedomworks.com? http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/dean-clancy/herman-cains-999-plan-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugl

I say that because its odd to see two posts on two prominent conservative websites on the same day on the same subject. Either that or someone’s either plagiarized or we have a ConservoList going on and either scares me.

I agree with the arguments against the 999 plan in that it leaves open the “possibilities” of a VAT and excessive taxes… provided Congress imposes them. Will the current or even the near future political climate allow such oppressive taxes to be imposed? Doubtful.

And as hard as it is to believe, it’s very likely the Republican presidential nomination will go to a French-speaking Mormon vulture capitalist named Willard, who used to support abortion rights, gay rights, gun control, “amnesty” for undocumented immigrants, and combating climate change, and who distanced himself from Reagan, attended Planned Parenthood fundraisers, and helped create the blueprint for the Affordable Care Act.

(sounds an awful lot like Nein, Nein, Nein which is German for “No, No, No”) then we need a way to 1) get it enacted into law while (2) stripping Congress of the power to tinker with it and (3) revoking their current taxing authority.

This would require at least one and may require two Constitutional amendments: A repealer for the 16th Amendment and this proposal in the form of an amendment as its replacement. There are at least a half-dozen lawyers that are front page contributors to this site. I propose a contest amongst them to come up with a proposed amendment or pair of amendments that accomplish this objective.

Any takers?

but generally meaningless. It’s the Republican equivalent of promising a chicken in every pot. It won’t cost you any votes, and might gain you some. The only way to attack these plans politically is either to say the candidate is lying (bad form in a primary) or the proposal is really a stealth tax increase and therefore anathema to all true good thinking Republicans, which is the approach Streiff is taking here. I’m not a Cain supporter, but I don’t think people who would be inclined to vote for him are going to be persuaded that he secretly favors a big tax increase. Streiff recognizes this problem and attempts to get around it by saying Cain is naive and inexperienced politically, and this plan illustrates that. I’m not sure Streiff has picked the best avenue to make that point, though. What about foreign policy? I’m not sure Cain can spell it…

This website is becoming nausiating with it’s daily pro-Perry and anti-Herman Cain rhetoric. I find a lot of you out of touch with “real” people who I come in contact with daily – that includes Conservatives, Rinos, Independents and Liberals. Have fun pushing Perry. That’s not going anywhere. I might check in again the first of the year but I don’t expect things to be much different.

“anyone but Obama.” That should be our mantra AFTER our GOP nominee has been chosen. Right now, we should be determining who is the most experienced, conservative candidate.

Can anyone say Cain has been properly vetted? There’s still a lot we don’t know about him…things that may come up after the nomination.

What’s that? An extra $36K on a $400K home?

Sure doesn’t work well with me…

.

Correct? No more OASD (FICA) and medicare payroll tax, which is 7+% twice (employee and employer). So it gets rid of one tax avenue of 14% of all income.

I agree that seniors paying sales taxes would be difficult, but all that IRA money would be taxed at a much lower rate. And we could get rid of all taxes on social security income.

And right now, Cain’s website is having capacity issues. I pray it’s for donations.

Seriously…

Consider what you’re saying. Herman is proposing destroying all other taxes out there and only having three streams of revenue. Other candidates keep the same tax code…… What keeps Democrats from just increasing taxes that already exist?

Secondly, it’s politically hard to raise a flat sales tax. The Democrats can’t argue, “Well, we’ll only tax the rich and not the poor.” No, in order to raise the tax they’ll have to raise it on everyone meaning it’s not politically viable to raise the tax rate.

It’s a step in the right direction. Even Art Laffer thinks so.

Cain has benefited almost exclusively at the expense of Perry. If, and I believe when it becomes a 2-person race between Perry and Romney, those votes are going all Perry’s way despite (if) any endorsement by Cain to the contrary. Cain supporters, unlike SWMNBN, are independent and not loyal to Cain the man.

Okay, I do concur with the tendency of a runamok Congress to ratchet up the 9-9-9 to a 10-10-10, VAT or whatever without controls in place. Perhaps if Americans were to elect Herman Cain as President, there’s an off chance that he would veto anything falling short of his goals (and the then majority of Americans)?

Unless folks have read up on the FairTax (www.FairTax.org — just buy the books for cheap already), then they are entirely missing the point of the Sales Tax equation on the price of goods and services in terms of the “hidden embedded taxes” already on them — which would be eliminated.

It’s really not that hard people (well, maybe for Michelle Bachman’s refusal to read the devils in the details). Sheesh!

“The FairTax proposes to eliminate all federal taxes — income, withholding, capital gains, corporate, inheritance, Social Security and Medicare — and replace them with a 23% sales tax, also known as consumption tax, paid only once, at the final point of personal consumption, paid only on new goods and services. Used goods, and busines to business trans-actions, will not be taxed.

Most wage-earning, tax-paying American citizens are not aware of “embedded taxes,” that are hidden, and do not appear on the receipt.

Though unseen, the consumer pays them.

A loaf of bread that sells for $2.69 includes the taxes on the wheat seed the farmer buys, the seeder he uses to plant those seeds, the truck that transports the wheat to the mill, the mill operator, the truck that moves the flour to the baker, the manufacturer of the bread wrapper, and finally, the store that sells the manufactured loaf. Who pays the taxes on those seven operations? You guessed it — or did you?

The worst of those embedded taxes is the payroll deduction tax.

That is money that’s withheld from wage-earners, even those who live below the poverty line. By eliminating those embedded taxes, wage-earners will take home their entire paycheck — 100% — and set their own tax rate, based on how much or how little they buy.

When The FairTax becomes the law of the land, there will come an economic upturn of great proportions. Outsourced companies will return to our shores…” Jobs will be created!

(from: http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9483 )

the House couldn’t even get enough votes to overturn the light bulb act. Do you really expect them to be able to eliminate our current tax code in its entirety and take a chance on this 9,9,9 plan?

Get real. This conversation is nothing but a distraction from the serious issues. You are all doing what the MSM and the GOP leaders want you to be doing.

this 9,9,9 plan IS interesting, but we would have to expect Congess to give up much of their power by eliminating the existing tax code.

I plead with all of you conservatives to stop being led by the MSM, the GOP elites, and the debate moderators. We are discussing the issues they want us to discuss. If we allow them to direct us this way, we will find ourselves in the next few months wondering how we ended up with another John McCain again. We will have to share in the blame because we didn’t stay focused. We must be looking at who is the most experienced and conservative candidate in the race. Ignore what the “experts” are saying. They still don’t know what happened in 2010.

Yes, I am a Perry supporter although I don’t agree with everything he said or did while Governor of Texas, but I do consider most of the attacks against him so far to be relatively minor compared to what we could expect from some of the other candidates.

I should add that Cain is not a politician only because he has not been able to win any of the races that he has entered. Perry has never lost a political race and has enough of a war chest to keep him going until almost everyone has dropped out.

And how is this plan going to jive with states that pay 0% sales taxes,like NH,Montana,Oregon,Alaska,Deleware?o.0

If we are to abandon all hope and be realistic, then Mr. Strieff should criticize ALL economic plans equally, since they all have an equal chance of passing and getting screwed with by Congress. Herman Cain has said from the gitgo that the first step in the 9-9-9 plan is to abolish the current tax code. That’s step one. That means you don’t go to step two until step one is completed.

Remember for a law to go into effect, the President must not veto it,and he must sign it. If President Cain signs the 9-9-9 plan into law, assuming he likes the final product, then in order for congress to change it, they must pass new legislation and President Cain must sign it.

This assumes that Republicans in Congress have learned their lesson and really will become the party of smaller government,and not just pay lip service to that as they have in the past.

I think that Herman Cain will be more prone to use the veto pen than most other presidents in recent memory.

Some of these comments about Herman Cains plan being too simplistic…too radical….. requiring too much change makes me think I’m listening to a conversation in an South Carolina slave shack in the 1830′s. The slaves are whispering among themselves about escaping from massa.”It’s too far”…..”what if we are caught”….”we can’t run that fast”……”it ain’t that bad here”.

Progressives have driven this country(and Europe) into a ditch that threatens to overturn our country ! And we cower in the corners of our shacks made by our Progressive massa…and thing of reasons we can’t escape.

in all the arguments against 9-9-9 is that future corruption of the basic tenets can and will happen. This is the nature of any tax code. Taxes are the ultimate weapon for congress to praise or punish whatever they choose, and passage of this tax reform is just as vulnerable as any other plan.

The only solution to preventing future corruption of any tax plan is to do away with income taxes altogether and install only a national sales tax (consumption tax). It is the perfect graduated tax system…the rich pay more and the not-rich pay less, based on purchasing. That way, any future monkeying with it will be instantly obvious to every consumer. Remember, we had no income tax for almost 150 years and somehow managed just fine.

and that is bait for those disenchanted voters that would normally vote for the Liberals. this plan is to attract the Blue collar Union workers. We all know that even if the plan makes sense, which I don’t think it does, a 2″ snowball has a better chance of surviving being dropped into Mt. Kilauea and then being retrieved intact. The good thing about Cain is that he isn’t Obama, Romney or Perry. People say he has no foreign affairs experience but most of the last 5 presidents haven’t so this isn’t a big deal. Right now we don’t need foreign affairs experience we need someone who can fix the economy. Cain knows what it takes to run a corporation and what it takes to get the hiring process kick started. The way I see 9-9-9 is this is the way you say No to Obama, Perry and Romney in German.