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Mitt Romney Knows Deprivation

the sweet odor of Eau de Flopsweat comes from the Romney campaign


There are few things more ridiculous than wealthy men trying to convince everyone they know what economic deprivation feels like. Even when the stories are possibly true, such as when Paul O’Neill and aged Klansman Robert C. Byrd dueled over who had the most authentic PWT background, the spectacle is demeaning and degrading to everyone involved: participant or spectator.

When the man involved is fabulously wealthy and from a prominent family with privileged upbringing it is just insulting.

Still stinging from his rather bizarre offer to gift Governor Rick Perry $10,000 during the last of the interminable debates — I say gift rather than bet because Romney‘s book did get the Soviet May Day picture treatment before his latest attempt to become a professional politician — the Romney campaign has now set out to make Mitt v 467753.1: Romney the common man.
From Politico: Mitt Romney Begins Humanizing Campaign

In the past 24 hours, the former Massachusetts governor has talked about his father, experiences while working as a missionary that weren’t even in his memoir — and twice in two days, he’s brought up the Mormon faith that he’s until now largely steered clear of.

For a candidate who’s developed a reputation for stiffness after years spent focusing on his professional background and business expertise, it’s a sizable rhetorical pivot — and one that coincided with a renewed effort by his GOP rivals and Democrats to make an issue of his personal wealth following the the awkward $10,000 bet he offered Rick Perry during Saturday night’s debate.

While even Romney’s wife apparently thought the offer to bet Rick Perry was somewhat bizarre:

When a reporter asked Romney whether he regretted offering the bet, he tried to play down the incident with humor. “After the debate was over, Ann came up and gave me a kiss and said I was great,” Romney said, adding that his wife joked to him: “There are a lot of things you do well. Betting isn’t one of them.”

It seems that Romney was most galled by the juxtaposition of this challenge to Rick Perry’s story of being raised on a cotton farm.

Today, from the Politico story, we have this jewel:

“Most of the apartments I lived in had no refrigerators,” Romney told a crowd of 300 at a VFW hall here Sunday afternoon, launching into a long anecdote about life as a Mormon missionary in France that touched on the difficulties of shopping before every meal and living in buildings without a shower.

“If we were lucky, we actually bought a hose and we stuck it on the sink, and we’d hold there with the hose and the big bucket underneath us in the kitchen and wash ourselves that way,” Romney said. “And so, I lived in a way that people of lower-middle income in France lived and said to myself, ‘Wow, I sure am lucky to have been born in the United States of America.’”

One hardly knows what to make of this. In 1965, Mitt Romney was selected to undertake a missionary assignment in France (quick! what else was happening in 1965 but not in France) he drew a salary and lived in the manner of a lower middle income French family. He stayed in places that didn’t have a proper toilet or refrigerator. He had to shop every day. The freakin horror of it all.

If we ever needed more evidence that Romney is an out of touch rich guy in search of a hobby, this story gives us all we need. I understand next week the campaign is going to leak that Romney secretly likes to chow down on whitefish roe instead of Beluga caviar.

COMMENTS

  • qcompson

    have established that Perry’s characterization of the changes to Romney’s book is misleading or a downright lie. The the text was edited, but not for the

    “Perry is making a phony claim”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-abc-yahoo-debate-in-iowa/2011/12/11/gIQAglhRnO_blog.html

    “In other words, Perry is simply making up the claim that Romney advocated his health-care plan as a model for the rest of the country ? and that he deleted words praising it. Perry?s claim is directly contradicted on the very page from which he draws his gotcha quote. (You can see this clearly if you click on this PDF of Pages 176-177, courtesy of our friends at PolitiFact.)”

    “We sent Perry spokesman Mark Miner an e-mail seeking comment, but he continued his nearly unbroken record of declining to respond to a fact-checking inquiry.

    This ad is the kind of gamesmanship that gives politics a bad name. Perry could have made a reasoned attack on the type of health-care reform that Romney supported, but instead he chose to manufacture a phony issue. Romney has long said he did not view his plan as a model for the nation, and he has not wavered on that stance.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/perrys-phony-attack-ad-on-changes-to-romneys-book/2011/09/26/gIQAR4JA0K_blog.html

    • greyeagle

      Even the AP fact checkers agreed with Perry. I haven’t seen any fact checkers that agreed with your statements. You said the WaPo stated that Perry was making up a claim about Romney. I believe this was the same newspaper that said that Perry owed a ranch with a rock that had a objectionable name. Perry does not own a ranch and it was a hunting lease that he had not been to for years. The ranch was owned by a children’s home. So this made up story was by this same media outlet that said Perry was not telling the truth. Sorry, I don’t consider the WaPo as a reliable media outlet.

      • esquip17

        I officially give up on you guys! This election is going to be a choice of the fundamental nature of government and you guys are locked in this silly exercise in irrelevance. Yeah, in the primary season you get to pick your favorite but this ste has gone way too far. Criticizing Republican candidates and echoing the tropes of the liberal media, all I can say is I hope you enjoy four more years of socialism.. Good riddance fools and Erickson is a pompous fool.

        • gunslingr45

          Oblumber? Really where’s the diff?

          “For those who have fought for it freedom has a sweet taste the protected will never know”

          • gunsrus

            less filling….etc

      • olds88er

        I have to agree with esquip. Erik has so concentrated on a hard core Conservative winning the Primary that he is too stupid to realize that a hard core Conservative WILL NOT win the General.
        And Mormon missionaries DO NOT “receive a salary”. They pay their own way. The church pays only for the transportation to the mission site.
        Romney’s family came from a farming community in Colonia Dublan in The state of Chihuahua in Mexico. His grandfather would not abandon his plural wives’ families when the LDS church had to give up polygamy when the Territory of Utah joined the Union. The Romneys went to Mexico, as did many other members. Many others went to Canada. I know this as I married a Skousen girl from there and she mentioned that some of her sisters, there were eight, dated Romney boys. So Romney did NOT come from a wealthy family
        Erik you are such a Romney hater that I will hold you guilty of helping to lose the moderate who has the best chance to beat Obama. I have been a hard core Conservative since Goldwater. And you?

        • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

          …do the following:

          1). Try to keep track of who is writing what on the front page. I know it’s hard to grasp, but this is a group site.

          2). Spell our names correctly.

          Thanks in advance.

    • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

      Tsk, tsk. You should get out more. No, really. Those of us with kids envy the young, and their ability to go places on less than three days’ notice.

      Blam.

    • texabama

      I’ve heard both sides today depending on the source. All I know is that I personally have seen video where Romney pretty much says that it would be a great model for the rest of the country. Now he’s changed his mind?

      • jasondallastx

        I’ve heard both sides given credit. But immediately after the debate, one of the commentators gave Romney the credit, saying perry had embellished.

      • don12345

        Sorry texabama, but you are flat out wrong.

        Romney did state that Romneycare was a model for the rest of the country, but in the same breath he stated that he would never impose a federal model. You see my friend, Romney was stating a state level model for the states which the rest of the 49 states in the U.S. is the rest of the country.

        In the last debate Romney pointed out that Gingrich supported a federal level model which Romney never supported. Perry then went on to lie and said Romney supported a federal model so Romney decided to make a bet with a Texan, which is absolutely a no-no unless you are 100% for sure you are going to win, because in Texas they shoot first and ask questions later.

        • edintexas

          Texabama stated “All I know is that I personally have seen video where Romney pretty much says that it would be a great model for the rest of the country.” Texabama did not, in any way, indicate that Romney said he would impose it on the country.

          I don’t know about you, but my reading comprehension makes me conclude texabama said the same thing as “Romney did state that Romneycare was a model for the rest of the country…”. So how was texabama “…flat out wrong.” and you correct?

    • streiff

      you owe me a new monitor

      • don12345

        The truth hurts doesn’t it. In your case it seems even your new monitor got some of your pain.

    • williamjameson

      aka as Factcheck.org…………. look for “Blog Roll” about a 3rd of the way down and see the connection. WaPo announced the relationship with the Annenberg Challenged own FactCheck.org

      You read lies, the fact is Romney said it and there is video footage on RS and YouTube to support my statement. The liberal infestation of manufactured truth continues.

  • usedtobelib

    I haven’t heard one thing he’s said that suggest he wants me or anyone else to think he’s experienced “economic deprivation.”

    What I have seen is other GOPers trying to make hay about a man in their party who has money–imagine that, “conservatives” suggesting making money is bad.

    Pathetic–sounding just like Obama and his minions.

    BTW, if you know anything about his rearing, I think you’d know what lots of people do–that rich people often expect more out of their kids than others.

    Perry should have taken the bet like a real man would have if he was so damned sure he was right. Sitting next to me on the sofa when that exchange took place, my husband, who was a Republican long before I was, shook his head when Perry refused the first offer, before the $10, 000 was even mentioned.

    I looked at him and he said, “That man (Perry) just lost his manhood. If had been sure of his attack, he would have lept at the handshake and the bet. I never expected him to be a p__ssy.”

    • greyeagle

      Governor Perry does not do betting of any kind. It has to do with his religious faith rather than anything else. So he hardly lost his manhood. Maybe they behave differently where you live.

    • texabama

      I disagree with your husband. I’m not against betting, but a national debate is not an appropriate venue for that behavior. That’s the kind of thing you do watching a sports event or while having a “discussion” in a bar.

    • jasondallastx

      when I saw the debate I thought to myself, Oooo, Perry looked like a coward. And then when everyone was reacting to the amount of the bet, I was sorta stunned. In retrospect, I get why people want to be “outraged” but my initial reaction was that Perry wasn’t confident in his facts, and that’s why he didn’t take the bet.

      ps, hooray for perry for looking lucid throughout the whole debate. his meds were working that night.

      • AceInTX

        you say he showed Cowardice…how so…if he didn’t take Mitt up on the bet out of Principle…how is he a coward?

        In your world…Perry couldn’t win no matter how he reacted….

        I don’t care how much evidence I had…or how confident I was…I’d have answered Romney the exact same way….betting is betting…and in my book is a sin….

        • snowshooze

          Romney.. the one who was conveniently a traveling Minister for the Mormon church, in France, at 18, wants now to Gambel 10K…
          No Viet Nam for that boy.

          • papabear

            LDS.org states “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is opposed to gambling, including lotteries sponsored by governments. Church leaders have encouraged Church members to join with others in opposing the legalization and government sponsorship of any form of gambling.”

            The idea of Romney attempting to bully Perry into keeping quite w/a “sinful” wager blows me away. The irony is only compounded by the subject of the wager – a demonstrably true statement by Perry. Romney’s only factual argument is akin to Clinton’s questioning the meaning of the word “is”.

          • don12345

            If you pull out the old tapes, Perry initiated the gambling attack first. It’s true that members of the Church of Jesus Christ can’t gamble, but they can make bets where the money is given away to charity. The 10k that Romney clearly would have won would have gone to a good cause instead of millionaires pockets like Romney and Perry.

          • papabear

            This is wrong on so many levels:

            1.) You cannot be serious – arguing that two “wrongs” make a right? So, If Perry engaged in an attack against Romney that involved smoking a cigarette, it would be OK for Romney violate a tenet of Mormonism by replying in kind? (BTW, I am calling you out. Produce evidence to back up your claim. I have watched every debate and I can find no big money gambling challenge from Perry).

            2.) What part of the statement “opposed to gambling, including lotteries sponsored by government” endorses bets to charity?

            3.) Although Romney had plenty of opportunity to say it was for charity, he never hinted about that. Not even in the spin room. You are making stuff up (again).

        • clowngirl

          whereas Romney had no problem setting his faith aside. (according to Erick, Mormons aren’t supposed to gamble)

      • streiff

        Perry acted like an adult. It says more about Romney and his supporters who think this is a cool move than it does about anyone else.

        • tyman

          In a situation like that, you always have “I shoulda said this or that”.

          I would have loved for Perry to say: “Mitt, I don’t bet, and I certainly don’t want to take such easy advantage of you because I would clearly win that bet”.

          I think it would be funny for Perry to run an ad saying something like that. If it didn’t look petty, I’d love for Perry to have two copies of the book with it marked to show Mitt. It’ll probably come up again.

          Perry’s ad does show the words being taken out, and the link that Dr. Bob sent yesterday seems to do that as well. I also heard EE say on his show last night that it was changed from the hard cover to the paperback edition.

          Either Romney doesn’t know it was done, or he really believes he can easily fool so many people. Either case is not good.

        • thelastconservative

          This site has been fixated on Romney since the beginning of his campaign. Newt is much more flawed as a person and a politician than Romney is, but you, Erick, and the other mods can’t see that.

          Good luck with Newt. If his campaign in the general election reminds you of McCain’s crash-and-burn in 2008, don’t say I didn’t warn you.

  • JSobieski

    A certain amount of “Romney is rich” attacks are probably in order just to make sure that he can handle them if he is the nominee.

    That being said, Romney has always seemed to appreciate the many blessings that he has enjoyed. He is close to the bottom of my list, but I don’t think picking on Mitt for being wealthy, successful, and from a prominent family is what Republicans should be doing.

    No doubt Romney’s existence is as far removed from mine as mine is to someone in the urban ghetto. I don’t support playing the class card any more than I support the playing the race card.

    Romney is a fool if he does anything besides say “I have been blessed, and I want more Americans to be similary blessed”. However, I don’t support the “out of touch rich guy” meme.

    To the extent that there is any value in populism, it should be shown not spoken. Romney is coming across like Kerry eating that cheese steak sandwhich in Philadelphia, but we don’t need to assist the self destructive urge.

    • AceInTX

      But…..(You HAD to know there would be a but right?)…Romney trying to paint himself as someone who has experienced hard knocks and pulled himself up by the boot straps is a bit much don’t you think?

      I was impressed Mitt had done missionary work….but in my mind, I was thinking of the mosquito and snake infested jungle, or the Serengeti Plain…not Paris for Pete’s sake…and the fact that his little foray into sink baths kept him out of Viet Nam can’t be ignored….but to turn that into the equivalent of growing up on a cotton farm devoid of running water and using an outhouse rather than an indoor toilet is insulting in the extreme….and pathetic on it’s face…

      This is pathetic

      • JSobieski

        While Rome burned . . ..

        • AceInTX

          /

      • gunslingr45

        in a rice paddy, while being shot at I might respect him more.

        “For those who have fought for it freedom has a sweet taste the protected will never know”

    • jasondallastx

      totally agree on the Kerry analogy!

      • nathanalbright

        I am a missionary in Thailand (I just got back from a refugee camp), and though all missionaries generally go without, I think that being a missionary in France is pretty cushy compared to being a missionary in other parts of the world (Africa in particular). To say that living in France shows that you know poverty and deprivation when you were getting out of Vietnam is disingenuous to me. I would have no problem voting for a rich person who didn’t pretend otherwise, but who was true to himself, and the fact that Perry has a net worth of $2.5 million while mine is probably negative at this point doesn’t bother me a bit–I’m not an envious person, just one with no tolerance for baloney.

    • thelastconservative

      Streiff’s attacks on Romney are generally right in line with Democrat talking points.

      I think that his main beef with Romney is that Romney isn’t “conservative enough” for him. But his tactics in going after Romney are generally based on portraying Romney as being “too wealthy to be in touch with the common man”.

      Good luck with Newt, Streiff. And that goes for Erick, too. Every single poll that I’ve seen in the last two weeks has shown that Romney polls better against Obama than Gingrich in every single state.

      But the mods here seem to be hell-bent on preventing Romney from being the candidate. Obama is laughing himself to tears right now.

  • snowshooze

    And he refers to his professional background and business expirence…
    But he never mentions exacly what he was doing.
    Junking out companies. Mostly.
    But, are you telling me he was a draft dodger?
    I don’t know how old he is… 1965.. when was Viet Nam kicking in??
    Sounds kinda suspicious.

    • snowshooze

      Making Romney a safe Missionary in France at the age of 18.
      Great.

      • Duke

        ?If we were lucky, we actually bought a hose and we stuck it on the sink, and we?d hold there with the hose and the big bucket underneath us in the kitchen and wash ourselves that way,? Romney said. ?And so, I lived in a way that people of lower-middle income in France lived and said to myself, ?Wow, I sure am lucky to have been born in the United States of America.??

        Well, Mr. Mittens, recalling my stint in Vietnam in ’67, If we were lucky we could actually find a bucket with a line on it (rope for you land lubbers), and we’d hold there on the bank of the Mekong River pouring that brown water from the bucket over our heads and wash ourselves that way. And so, I lived in a way that people of the impoverished villages of the Mekong Delta lived and said to myself, “Wow, I sure am lucky to have been born in the United States of America.”

        By the time I left Vietnam I’d been wounded twice, and still thought I was lucky to have been born in the United States of America. So tell me again, Mr. Mittens, what you’ve done to earn my vote as our Commander in Chief.

        • snowshooze

          And we have an honest to God, draft dodging high roller betting 10 K a flip.running against a Veteran.
          I will have to look at Gingriches Service history, but I think he is in the clear.

          • snowshooze

            High rolling Mormon Gambler.

          • Tbone

            NT

          • snowshooze

            I obviously understood the implication of ” What else was going on in 1965″
            That was the first thing I thought of.
            So… I honestly fielded my answer.

          • cdthat

            For those of you who don’t have a first hand knowledge of how Mormon Missionaries get their assignments for where they go I will give you an outline.

            1. As the young man approaches the age of 19 he meets with his local church leaders to discuss his desire to serve, physical ability to serve and his worthiness to serve.
            2. Once his ability/desire to serve has been determined an application is sent to church HQ where it is reviewed by a committee made up of members of the Church’s leadership councils. There is no place on the application to indicate a desired assignment and their is also nothing on the application that indicates the young man’s financial standing other than confirming that he or his family has the ability to pay his way for the 2 years he will be gone.
            3. After the review process a decision is made by the committee as to where they will call the young man to serve.
            4. A letter is sent to the young man informing him that he has been called to serve in xxx mission and should report for training on dd/mm/yyyy.
            5. He then replies to the letter either accepting or rejecting the call and if accepted he reports for duty on the specified date.

            Mitt Romney was lucky enough to be called to France, I had a brother who was not allowed to go on a mission because his Selective Service number was within the range that he would be called up by Uncle Sam he served in the Navy. I had brothers who were called to serve as missionaries in Chile, Paraguay, The Netherlands, Japan, Korea and Spokane, WA. The location isn’t as important as the willingness to go.

            Don’t get caught up in the leftist trap of calling Mr Romney a draft dodger.

          • thelastconservative

            That doesn’t surprise me.

          • jasondallastx

            In 1961, Gingrich graduated from Baker High School in Columbus, Georgia. He became interested in politics during his teen years while living in Orl?ans, France, where he visited the site of the Battle of Verdun and learned about the sacrifices made there and the importance of political leadership. Gingrich avoided the Vietnam War draft through deferments because he was a student and then a father. “Given everything I believe in, a large part of me thinks I should have gone over,” he said in 1985

          • snowshooze

            We should be looking at this without any rose colored glasses.
            I’d rather know now than later.

          • David123

            Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich avoided the draft

            Jon Huntsman, Rick Santorum, and Michelle Bachman were too young to be drafted; Michelle Bachman would not have been subject to the draft anyhow.

          • streiff

            his deferment to be a missionary was completely above board.

          • thelastconservative

            A lot of people here don’t seem to know the difference between using a deferment and running away to Canada as many draft-age men did in the 60′s and 70′s.

      • snowshooze

        He would have been about 22 in 1965.

    • Tbone

      Draft dodgers were guys who got drafted and THEN bailed out to Canada.

      Romney was a student with a student deferment. Student deferments were good things as the army could have hardly absorbed every 18 year old kid in America. Viet Nam was hardly WWll.

      I graduated from high school in ’67 and went to college for the next 4 years. By ’71 we were bringing back more than we were sending over that’s why only the bottom 1/3 of the lottery numbers were even being called in for physicals.

      But let me tell you the real story from a guy who was so hard right that I went into the college cafeteria and rounded up 20 hardcore athletes when the effing anti-war hippies were headed to the Admin Building for a sit in. We beat them to the door and told them that anyone of them who tried to enter the building, then or ever, that we would kick their teeth out their a**holes. Thus ended the sitin.

      By ’68 the leftwing politicians had decided to lose the war. Every kid that went to Nam was wasting a year and maybe wasting his life. I lost friend over there for no good reason. I have hated the Left ever since and I would have felt privileged to beat every frickin’ leftwing Democrat with a baseball bat from the lying crook LBJ on down. But, I had no desire to waste a year or my life in Nam for a bunch of scumbag politicians.

      So don’t call Romney a draft dodger because he was either lucky or smart. There are 55,000 names that shouldn’t be on a wall in DC that far more deserved to be with Romney in Paris.

      • snowshooze

        Ok, If I wanted my kid to stay out of a war in which I knew there was a serious possibility of his getting killed….
        Can you think of a better way than having him doing missionary work in the country whose rubber plantations we were defending?
        Great cover. And not bad for a high rolling gambler expatriate Mormon missionary at the ripe old age of 18.
        And.. thank you very much for chiming in.

        • snowshooze

          So long as it works. Not exactly a draft dodger… I’m really busy being a student. A heck of a long way from home. And, I am really important. And I don’t feel like getting shot.
          Plus, I ain’t a draft dodger because my Mom said so.

          • texas214

            we could possibly assume Newt is a closet homsexual and is only married to Calllista to hide it. Younger trophy wife who gets to by buy what she wants at Tiffany’s to keep quiet.

            I can make just as crazy an arguement as you. Please deal in facts that you know, not what you speculate. It only lowers the discussion here at RS.

          • snowshooze

            I think this IS a valid concern.
            EVERY SINGLE eligible male in my family went off to one war or another when the need was there.
            NONE were drafted. none.
            I was lucky to have had the common sense to have been born in 1960.

        • Tbone

          First, unless you were front line infantry there was little chance of being killed. Homework assignment: Go look up the ratio of field infantry in Nam. Good, patriotic kids didn’t want to go to Nam for fear of being killed, they didn’t want to go because it had become a lost cause thanks to leftwing politicians.

          Second, France had lost all its SE Asia rubber plantations in 1954. Don’t be so ignorant. Google Dien Bien Phu.

          Third. You are an ignorant fool typing nonsense about stuff of which you are clueless.

          • snowshooze

            I just plain do not know.
            Streiff made an interesting comment. I extrapolated.
            This is something that I believe bears scrutiny, so I persued it.
            If I am outta line… ok. You are superior and probably senior…
            No insults intended. I am sincere.

          • goodgovernance

            You accuse some of us who seriously dislike Romney of being anti-Mormon. Well, there are probably a few of us who are. But 75% of the Republican base?

            And… is it possible, just maybe possible, that you yourself are so enamored of Romney precisely because he is a Mormon? And that if he wasn’t a Mormon in good standing, you wouldn’t be nearly so supportive of the man, so willing to overlook or forgive his flaws?

            If he wasn’t Mormon, you might even see him as being a hollow person with a big void where his authentic political principles ought to be… a hole that perhaps you don’t see because you are filling it with your own idealized hopes about him.

          • texas214

            I don’t care what religion he is as long is he is honest, earnest, and trust-worthy. IF he can pass that test then I will look at where he stands on the issues and whether he would make a good president.

          • goodgovernance

            That’s where I think most people start when judging presidential candidates.

            Unfortunately for Mitt, many Republicans don’t think he passes that first, initial test, and it has nothing to do with his religion.

            Keep in mind, I think Huntsman’s the most electable of the bunch, if he would just reassert his true conservative nature.

          • AceInTX

            I’ve wracked my brain trying to figure out whether Romney reminds me more if flip flopping Kerry or plastic, wodden, teachers pet know it “I’ll lie when the truth would sound better…Albert Gore…

            and then it hit me….He’s equal parts of both…EVERYTHING I find annoying about Kerry and Gore are all wrapped up into one enormously annoying and comical dude….or is that dudd?

            All the worse of Kerry and Gore are present in Mitt Romney

          • davesinsanantonio

            and still be wrong!!!!!

          • haners

            I’m no Mormon, but I hate hypocrisy, and some of you guys on this site have been one big hypocrite 3 times over on the issues.

          • goodgovernance

            Hypocrisy is such an easy charge to throw out, without proof.

          • snowshooze

            And that isn’t President of States.

          • Tbone

            I don’t like Romney and I agree with this diary that rich folk should play at being poor folk. But Romney is not a draft dodger and you insult millions of honorable men who didn’t go to Nam. That is nothing more than cheap chicken hawking.

          • snowshooze

            I bit on that line, and the truth should be known.
            Are in fact, both or either, Gingrich or Romney deferred, or outright drsft dodgers?

          • snowshooze

            If you defend that…
            You ain’t nuthin’ to me.

          • Tbone

            “n April 1965, Romney registered with the Selective Service but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. When he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual draft lottery and at that time no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted.”

          • Tbone

            Guess not.

          • snowshooze

            Are you leading me?
            I stated I was asking, in all sincerety.

          • Tbone

            I just couldn’t catch up.

          • snowshooze

            I asked a valid question.
            You went for brownie points.

          • retire05

            Everyone male who reached the age of 18 in 1965 had to register. But what did Romney do? He left for France in 1966, on a “religious” mission, which gave him an “exemption” from the draft. After spending 2 1/2 years in “mission service”, he gained a student exemption and by the time he was eligible for the draft, he drew a high number.

            The fact remains that Romney received a double exemption; student and married in 1969 until 1970.

            Now, this man who used his exemptions to avoid service, wants to lead our military, in a world that is about to explode and that we will not be able to avoid. Have you not had enough of a president who was unwilling to wear the uniform?

          • haners

            Your quote marks are unnecessary. Get over yourself, most of our elected leaders in the past two decades were draft dodgers. Even Bush was state side National Guard because of his family connections. It’s an awful reality, and it’s why we don’t have drafts today.

          • Tbone

            The military can’t hold everyone now, it couldn’t hold everyone then. That is why there were exemptions and that is why there was a lottery.

            There were exemptions during WWll.

            To say you wouldn’t vote for someone who didn’t serve means you would favor John Kerry over Dick Cheney.

            Are you that stupid?

          • snowshooze

            Cut it out. You look worse with every post.
            This is embarrasing.

          • Tbone

            draft dodgers and cowards for never having served in the military.

          • snowshooze

            Agree away.

          • gunslingr45

            personally just love to know how you get by talking to people the way you do when people have been banned for a whole lot less. You even blasted me once for saying I do not see any real difference between Mitt and Oblumber and I still don’t. Now he has a new side kick in Newt. The could be brothers.

            “For those who have fought for it freedom has a sweet taste the protected will never know”

          • Tbone

            baffles you.

            “You even blasted me once for saying I do not see any real difference between Mitt and Oblumber and I still don?t. Now he has a new side kick in Newt. The could be brothers.”

            There is no difference between Romney and Obama?

            And, who is he that Newt is now a sidekick to?

            Go to www.copywriters.com and hire some help.

          • snowshooze

            Rather than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.

          • JSobieski

            What I am sick of is excessive hyperbole re: how so many of our candidates are no different than Obama. That is what I have a had enough of.

          • thelastconservative

            I’d give you a bunch of 5′s but I hate the cliche feel of that.

            Although I’m not into going after posters like snowshooze the way you did, I’m getting sick of his chickenhawking which is specifically against the rules.

            The mods don’t go after him because he’s anti-Romney as many of the mods are. So he and heraklios and acat and all of the other anti-Romney’s here are free to break the rules.

            And don’t get me started on mods breaking the rules.

          • Tbone

            friends and team mates over there. They did their duty and they paid the ultimate price. For nothing. That is why it is so important that we don’t let the scums like Obama lose Iraq and Afghanistan.

            The point that Streiff was making is that other people had it harder, not that Romney should have been with them.

          • snowshooze

            So…
            WTF T-Bone?
            I lost two cousin’s there.

          • Tbone

            At least your cousins were spared from the likes you.

          • snowshooze

            Shove it.

          • Tbone

            Why weren’t you in Lebanon, El Salvador or Grenada in the early 80′s?

          • snowshooze

            So far as I know, I was amongst the luckiest ones ever born. And still am.
            But you can just quit kicking your BS on the graves of my family any time now.

          • Tbone

            to support your stupidity.

          • snowshooze

            Coward.

          • snowshooze

            Nobody in their right mind will give you a drpop of crecibility,.

          • snowshooze

            But if the shoe fits… wear it.
            You are obviously an idiot. ( In case anyone hadn’t figured that out by now) You have the balls to tell mre my family members were throw-aways because I was gifted by not having to serve???
            They paid for that luxury up- front.
            Now, they won’t even let me join.
            And I am hell on wheels with a rifle. I tried.
            They are missing out. God knows I am fa first rate sharp-shooter.

          • Tbone

            to put up with the likes of you.

            Congrats on being such a good shot. It allows us to not have to live in fear of tin cans and rabbits.

          • snowshooze

            One of my cousin’s was the first radiomen in the Grenada operation.
            He was front line.
            Why are you a jerk?
            My family has given a great sacrifice to this country.
            Although I never entered the Service, I hve been accepted by them. Just lucky I guess.
            So you.. who has paid the price.. is now endorsing and accepting a coward…
            I do not get it.

        • gunsrus

          Governor in Michigan. Paving the way for liberal control of State and Local government.

      • retire05

        there are 58,000 names on a black granite wall, not 55,000. For someone who seems to remember the days of Vietnam so well, I would think you would at least know the number of names on the Wall.

        Also, I take exception to your claim that a year in Vietnam was wasted. That diminishes the sacrifice made by our soldiers who were trying to stop the invasion of Communism in South East Asia. Don’t diminish their efforts because of a bunch of Democrats who would rather lose a war than win it.

        • snowshooze

          I do not have any idea if I am off base.
          I wish to hear the truth.

          • jimmyg

            Do you have so little confidence in your chosen candidate that you are relegated to making up stories out of whole cloth about Romney. Step away from the computer and give it up for the night.

          • snowshooze

            What conclusions might one draw?

          • jimmyg

            That is the same argument the left used against VP Cheney. That is he is a chicken hawk because he took advantage of student deferments.

            I served in the AF from 69 to 73,That does not give me a special status, nor does it give me the right to name call about people who did not serve, nor does it give me any special knowledge about the war in Viet Nam.

          • retire05

            It was not a war we should have lost. Most people do not realize that we did not lose even one battle in Vietnam. Vietnam was lost in the streets of the U.S. and the halls of a Democrat controlled Congress.

            The whole anti-war movement was funded, primarily, by Communist groups who had gained a foot hold in the U.S. Think William Ayers. The North Vietnamese understood what was going on in the U.S., they knew that the Communist influence in this nation was turning the tide of opinion against the war and all they had to do was wait it out. The Democrats were too damn stupid to understand what was really happening.

            But to say that spending a year in-county was a waste, is like saying that all the lives we have given to liberate Iraq will have been a waste now that Obama has decided to pull all troops out so he can use the withdrawal for political expediency. Iran will roll into Baghdad like the NVC rolled into Saigon.

            As to Romney, he was traipsing around France, on daddy’s money, (hence, his reference to living in an apartment with no refigerator while on his “mission”) when others his age were joining the military, donating part of their lives to this nation.

            I will never vote for another president who has not served in uniform. Never. And Ron Paul doesn’t count.

          • snowshooze

            And my family put forth some of their finest. We paid with blood.
            Romney’s family paid for a vacation.

          • snowshooze

            Understood?
            Thanks, retire05

          • SoFiMil

            a mission anywhere is definitely no picnic. It’s very hard work physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

          • blarman

            You might want to try talking to your local LDS missionaries about what it is like to serve before being so quick to condemn. Serving the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for two years isn’t a picnic or a joyride. You don’t have unlimited funds, and you don’t get to go to amusement parks, to the movies, on dates, or even swimming. You spend one day a week attending to personal needs like your laundry, physical health, and writing letters home, and the other six you are dressed in suit and tie talking to people about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s similar to being in the military in that you have a very regimented schedule, you’re just not packing guns and the combat is different.

            You’ll also never see Romney or any other returned missionary degrade the United States Military in any way. Service to one’s country is always honorable, as we believe is service to one’s God, and they are not mutually exclusive.

            I’m not trying to tell you to vote for Romney. Having been in his shoes, however, I would ask you to respect the service missionaries perform. If you saw the changes those two years make to young men, you too would encourage every single young man to do the same. If you don’t believe me, try talking with the ones in your area about why they serve and their feelings towards the military. You might just be surprised.

        • Tbone

          All those wasted years don’t diminish the lives that were lost. They were diminished by those willing to waste them in a losing cause.

          After ’68 most of those kids died trying to get themselves and their buddies home safe and whole. They new by then that fighting communism was for politicians to BS about.

          • retire05

            Those kids, who gave so much in South East Asia, were less aware of their futile efforts than they were of the protests that were scarring our streets and cities.

            You talk like someone who has never worn the uniform. A soldier is apolitical. They are simply doing the job they are sent to do. The job they are trained to do. And if you think that trying to stop the spead of Communism was/is a bad thing, you are freaking delusional.

          • Tbone

            “And if you think that trying to stop the spead of Communism was/is a bad thing, you are freaking delusional.”

            Where?

            You just make up stuff and then accuse me of it? That is dishonest.

            I said those kids were doing their duty. It is a shame that they weren’t rewarded with a lasting victory. That is what we can’t let happen again.

      • JSobieski

        nt

    • Menlo

      The draft is an overt and explicit violation of the thirteenth amendment. It’s also a grave injustice that is inhumane and evil, regardless of the threat.

      • Tbone

        for the common good.

        • Menlo

          The thirteenth amendment makes no exception “for the common good.” And it is still an inhumane and evil injustice no matter what it is for.

      • snowshooze

        This fact not being lost on mine.

        • Menlo

          Could he have simply been exercising his thirteenth amendment rights?

    • thelastconservative

      It is specifically banned by the rules of this site.

      If you want to chickenhawk Republicans, do it on dKos, TPM cafe or one of the liberal sites.

      There are pleny of other Republicans running this year who didn’t serve in Vietnam.

      If you’re going to attack candidates’ military credentials, you should at least have the guts to post what your own military background is. It better have some combat experience.

  • sethellis

    Once again everyone misses the point. You claim that Romney is trying to play a “me too” game with the I was poor line. He clearly indicated otherwise during the last debate when he said “if that’s what you’re looking for in a candidate that’s not me”.

    It is critical to note what Romney’s ultimate takeaway from these experiences was. He was glad he was born in America. The important thing is the values that he learned from these experiences.

    • heraklios

      or anything else, only the almighty dollar and his own self-advancement.

      • texas214

        nt

        • heraklios

          .

          • texas214

            that conservatives were against making money and improving their lives. You may want to Google and watch some of the lectures from Milt Friedman, then rethink your comments.

            “Self advancement” is bad thing?

          • heraklios

            If you believe he will support free markets, limited government and other conservative principles if elected, you are DREAMING.

      • thelastconservative

        Every time you post it’s the same thing. It is always right in line with the Obama playbook: stop Romney in the primary, crush Newt in the general.

        Please go away.

    • streiff

      what a man.

      • thelastconservative

        because you never served a mission.

        I lived on $60 to $200 a month in a backwater part of southern Brazil. Many of my showers were ice-cold in the winter. Only one of my 9 apartments had a hot water heater.

        The work was grueling. I logged 50 to 60 hours of work per week. Only one day off per week (Wednesday, for some reason, and we had to work after 6 p.m.).

        You’re supposed to give back any money that is left over after you have bought those things which are necessary to sustain life. It is impossible for you to save money or send money back home to your family.

        You wash your clothes by hand, generally (in Brazil at least). You learn to love the taste of plain rice.

        All physical contact with the opposite sex beyond a brief handshake is strictly prohibited.

        Phone calls to family are limited to two per year: one on Christmas and one on Mothers’ Day. You don’t have enough money to call home even if had let you call more often.

        I really don’t think that you know what you’re talking about when you say that Romney has never been deprived of anything. Are you speaking from a position of experience or are you just being snarky again?

        • streiff

          I’ve done better than that.

          45 days without changing clothes? Done that have you? Two showers in the same period of time? Washed your socks in a rice paddy and dried them by wearing them? Ever drank water from below the rice paddy line in Korea and had to dump so many iodine pills in it that you thought you were drinking actual iodine? 4 hours sleep in 5 days? Ever lost 1/5 of your body weight in 9 weeks?

          What a wussy.

        • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

          Are you really implying that the experience you shared with Mr. Romney was entered and endured against your will? Assuming the contrary–lest a massive can of worms be opened–the fact that he finds it natural to speak of degrees of hardship–which was clearly of limited duration–primarily in the first person rather than the third speaks disquieting volumes about the man’s view of his own importance in relation to others.

  • gator_hoo

    I don’t understand this line. “If we were lucky, we attached a hose to the sink and stood in a bucket.” That seems to be a matter of ingenuity, not luck.

    • snowshooze

      I am amazed.
      Somebody around here has to know something.

      • thelastconservative

        My brother served a mission in South Africa. He wishes that he was given a rifle. He was robbed over 10 times in his first 6 months and is very lucky that he wasn’t murdered as many missionaries, including Romney’s great-great-great-great grandfather, Orson Pratt, was.

  • texas214

    I have commented on this several times, but many here at RS (including you) seem to have a real problem with Mitt on many issues. Taking a stand against Mitt on the issues of the individual mandate, AGW, along with others is acceptablee until you then throw out all of your principles and support Newt who has and does hold many of the same positions.

    Say what you will, but your complaints begin to appear religious based given your lack of consisancy on the issues.

    • AceInTX

      and I am Damned sick and tired of this asinine meme…it makes me so mad I can’t stand it.

      You and your lame assed excuses is what has driven me from a potential Romney supporter to being a white hot Romney HATER…I hate him and his phone baloney plastic smile and his smarmy I’m not going to go negative on anyone, I’ll send my lackeys out to do that while I play kissey face with my opponents…

      You disgust me

      • texas214

        For the record I’m not a Romney supporter,………..what I am for is consistancy on our support for a candidate. When I see those in the coservative movement appear to throw out their previously stated beliefs to support Newt, my antena goes up. I think it is fair as to ask why this would be?

        • AceInTX

          I’ve said it over and over again…My problem with Romney isn’t that he’s Mormon…it’s that he isn’t Mormon enough…If he stuck to his faith, I’d respect the man…but he doesn’t…he’s an opportunist and a liar…he plays innocnet and above it all while he sends his creapy underlings out to do nagativ e hits on everyone who shows any signs of life on the Republican side…he did it in 2008 and is a big reason we ended up with McCain as our nominee…

          But never mind all that.,..What has my back up right now is this little nugget from you:

          Say what you will, but your complaints begin to appear religious based

          I defy you to name one instance where streiff has attacked or denigrated the Mormon religion in any way….NAME IT

          You made the accusation…NOW BACK IT UP

          I’ve been trashed and smeared the same way for three years now because I turned against Romney in 2008 because of attacks like this and I’ve HAD IT!!!

        • JSobieski

          Voting is always a multiple choice activity. Sometimes, the array of choices isn’t particularly appealing.

          If you can’t see any reason why conservatives would prefer Newt over Romney besides being anti-Mormon, I suggest to you that you don’t know how that many conservatives think.

          Newt was clearly not the first, second, or even third first pick for most people, That should tell you a lot. Most the Newt’s support is reluctant, soft, and based on an assessment that the other options aren’t all that great.

          • gunslingr45

            but on some of the most important issues they are the same. GW, Gun control. I would not trust Newt or Mitt any father than I could throw them.

            “For those who have fought for it freedom has a sweet taste the protected will never know”

          • JSobieski

            HSA/individual accounts vs. Romneycare

            Bold economic plans vs. No capital gains taxes for those making less than $250k

            Long standing advocate of entitlement reform vs. throwing together a plan only after Newt gets traction

            Consistently prolife vs. profile but not consistently so

            Substantial tax reform vs. Substantial tax credits

            Above all, Newt did more than rein in spending in DC than anyone else currently alive.

      • AceInTX

        who turn every legitimate criticism into a racial issue….you and your ilk do the same with Romney’s Religion…no matter the criticism, poor Mitt is being denigrated for his religion…

        I’m sick of it….I’ve had it up to my eyeballs….

        If you have a legitimate counter or criticism of what was posted…stick to what was said and quit pulling the anti Mormon car out of your boil infested backside!!!

        • texas214

          I am not for Mitt, I am for the most conservative candidate than can get elected. The issue is, that many on the right have expounded endlessly (streiff included) that Mitt’s position on Romneycare v Obamacare was disqualifying, then they immediately support Newt.

          Then I here about what he said about global warming and I think” no way” only to see support go to Newt as he is making ads with Queen Nancy.

          When that can be fully explained I’ll ignore tha other comments.

          • AceInTX

            NAME IT!!!!

            I keep saying this…and I’ll say it till I’m blue in the face…I was a potential Romney supporter at the start of 2007…until his sycophants turned me off with this anti Mormon bigotry crap…

            and here we are 4 years later and still leaning on the same crutch…and smearing honest and good people in the process…

            If you want an explanation why people would go to Newt or crawl naked on a mile of broken glass rather than consider EVER voting for Romney….you need look no further than your snide little post above.

            Say what you will, but your complaints begin to appear religious based


            BACK IT UP

          • texas214

            he wouldn’t publicly do so, so your challenge is misleading. All I have asked for is consistancy on peoples opinions on the candidates. When bloggers make the arguement against Romney that streiff, you, others have against Romney as disqualifying, how do then turn around and support Newt?

            For all of you righteous indignation you have yet to answer that simple question.

            So in response, NAME IT!!!!!

          • AceInTX

            Now you want to throw me in the mix?

            You admit you have nothing to base the accusation on…but you double down and say Streiff has never done it publicly…that he’s a closet anti Mormon bigot?

            Ace, you and I know, he wouldn?t publicly do so, so your challenge is misleading.

            So Streiff is an anti Mormon Bigot and I’m misleading and by inference a Liar….and you have NOTHING to back up your claims except your own big mouth?

            As for your question, I did answer it…I don’t trust Romney because of crap like you are putting on full display right now…no reason will satisfy people like you…no explanation but religious bigotry will do in your feeble mind. I could have been a supporter…but his creapy underlings turned me off completely…to the point where I’d almost vote for McCain over Romney if I had the choice,

            Anyone who has spent any time on Red State over the almost 4 years I’ve been here knows…That given my white hot dislike for McCain I am saying something significant with that.

            so go ahead with your smarmy unfounded smears on good people about religious bigotry…maybe you can turn off a thousand more potential Romney supporters and drive the Romney train off a cliff

          • AceInTX

            anything less proves you a coward, a cretin and a boorish ass

    • heraklios

      (Which according to several stories in the papers this week, his devotion to Mormanism is highly suspect). Romney will say ANYTHING and do ANYTHING to get elected. You can’t trust a word he says about ANYTHING.

    • center77

      I have yet to here it from him, We the people have every right to not want a Mormon as president. I have every right to believe that the things inside their religion may be to extreme for me.

      Now this is not the case with me, or anybody I know except a few dozen people at my church. But a person is free to make any reason they want to not support someone. How many people keep sayin gobama is a muslim, and that is probably not true, but if a person believes that, maybe you should go correct them for not liking Obama because he may be a muslum.

      People, do not feel sorry if you have a reason to not support someone, you have that right. I am a christian, and I would like someone that I feel will defend my faith, there is nothing wrong with that.

    • streiff

      you’ve actually made me notice you. Now toddle off to My Man Mitt and complain about being banned.

      Douche.

      • AceInTX

        you can’t read anything about Romney without the obligatory “some folks won’t vote for Romney because he’s Mormon” line being in the story.

        Then you have to deal with his blogger buddies turning every debate about him…every instance where a concern is raised about “Willard the Rat” is turned into…”Poor Mitt is just an innocent victim of anti-Mormon bigotry”

        I could eat lightning and crap thunder after the exchange I had with this moron

        Good riddance

  • jaykali

    Those were plentiful in China….

    • http://wadingacross.wordpress.com logus

      I was waiting to see if anyone picked up on Streiff’s picture choice. Thankfully I didn’t have to use too many squatty potties myself.

      That said, there was one worse option. A “bathroom” with a trough in the floor leading out the back wall… no running water.

      Then again… there was worse than that. An alley. A number of times I’d come across an alley that was clearly being used as a public restroom.

      China is hick, no matter how much they have been trying to fight that image for years.

      I think I would have preferred an outhouse.

      Mitt’s description of bathing reminds me of my time around Arabs in London. Only, they weren’t using the tube to bathe. We had a shower. No, the Arab men in our group commandeered a small half-bath and rigged up their own bidet.

      Quite annoying and a bit off-putting to go in there after them to use the restroom and find water all over the floor… and knowing why that water was there.

      Sigh.

      On a tangential note, my one “grievance” with God concerning my body is that I could never join the military – birth defect. It’s a valid reason, but one that always irked me for I felt surely that I could still serve, just not see action (I’m deaf in one ear).

      • jaykali

        Somehow I managed to very rarely have to use squattees and they really made me miss America.

    • nathanalbright

      …and no, they are no fun. I agree.

      • Menlo

        They get special toilets there:
        image

        • nathanalbright

          That’s a pretty funny picture.

          • avagreen

            That takes decency and commitment to your faith.
            I’ve read good/bad things about Thailand and “farangs” in Thailand. An American poster whose opinion I admire greatly has lived there for 20years or so. He posts on a Thai forum. The outlook there about America from ex-pats is enlightening, and sad at the same time.

            At any rate,I know you will many, many memories to bring back with you.

            I admire you. Greatly.

          • http://edgeinducedcohesion.wordpress.com nathanalbright

            I’m sure I will have a lot of memories and experiences. If and when my diary is approved I plan on starting with a cross-post about my recent visit to a refugee camp and the culture of dependency there I found most troubling (as well as an unsettling connection to Hilary Clinton’s diplomacy with Burma).

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    There is not much to him, but at least he would be about a million times better than Obama.

    If it comes down to he and Newt, I just don’t know.

    There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much that the Democrats can and will throw at Newt, and the problem is, unlike most of their crap it is all true.

    • nathanalbright

      …as there are plenty of options, right now, between Newt and Romney. I personally would have a hard time pulling the lever for either myself also, but thankfully that’s not required.

    • tailfins1959

      Maybe, just maybe those who have the most exposure to the candidates know what they are doing. I’m tired of all this doom and gloom. The guy that crosses the line with the checkered flag deserves the nomination. I would be happy with any of them in the White House. However, with Ron Paul I could see another 9/11 happening. Even another 9/11 would do less damage than the current occupant. I suspect lots of volunteers would quit after being yelled at for providing their free labor in the “wrong” way to Bachmann and company.

  • http://pocketchangeproductions.net/ anotherindyfilmguy

    <—highly qualified on the topic off being financially distraught.

    <—A real bargain at only $1,000.00 (U.S.) cash/hour.

    • nathanalbright

      :D

  • blarman

    Here are some of the rules LDS Missionaries live by during their service (2 years for young men, 18 months for young women and couples)
    1) You have a fixed amount of money every month with which to pay bills and eat (and its the same amount for every missionary). You have to make due with what you have, as family is not allowed to supplement this.
    2) Missionaries and the families are responsible for paying their way. The Church only uses money donated by other members in extreme circumstances.
    3) Missionaries have a rigorous schedule: up at 6am for study, out all day proselyting, and in bed at 10pm. No dating, no movies, and one day a week to do laundry, write letters home, etc.

    I served in Greece and Cyprus for two years under the same circumstances as Romney. We washed our own dishes in the sink, clothes by hand in the tub (and hung them to dry in our apartment), bought and prepared our own meals, and lived frugally. There was no air conditioning even when temperatures were over 40 C (104 F).

    And it was two of the best years of my life. Yes, Mitt’s family was well-off, but none of that matters once you are formally called to serve and you leave home. For those two years, you learn to be grateful for everything you have – something that would benefit a lot of the OWS crowd profoundly.

    Do I agree with all Romney’s policy decisions? Absolutely not. But if you have never lived on your own for two years in a foreign country on a small, fixed income, you should really try it before criticizing it. At the very least it makes you very grateful for the bounteous blessings we enjoy here in the United States of America.

  • swampgator

    I am new to this site. And I’m disappointed with the knocks on Romney. Is this truly a Conservative Republican website or is this an extension of Huffington Post?

    Newt Gingrich is a wordsmith with all the right answers – or that is what we are supposed to believe. I disagree — he is intelligent but totally devoid of character. At least the character of a man for President of my country.

    I prefer to vote for Romney because I believe he truly wants what is best for this country. Is he perfect – nope. None of the candidates are. But, I much prefer Romney because I do believe him to be a man of honor and character. A man who is a statesman and a man who has kept his zipper zipped!

    • gekster

      that weren’t just to get him elected.