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Secretary Sebelius Scraps Conscience Exception for Health Plans

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops Still Believes in Leprechauns

As the implementation of Obamacare rolls into high gear, we’ve been given insight into how it will be implemented in general. On January 20, the Department of Health and Human Services announced that it would not exempt health plans provided by non-profit religious employers from the requirement to provide “contraceptive services.”

… Today the department is announcing that the final rule on preventive health services will ensure that women with health insurance coverage will have access to the full range of the Institute of Medicine’s recommended preventive services, including all FDA -approved forms of contraception. Women will not have to forego these services because of expensive co-pays or deductibles, or because an insurance plan doesn’t include contraceptive services.

The cateory of “all FDA-approved forms of contraception” includes the abortifacients like the “morning after pill.” At the same time I couldn’t help but note that the group of health plans provided by “non-profit religious employers” who do not support contraception winnows the field down rather quickly to those provided by either the Catholic Church or one of its social service or medical subsidiaries.

The best is yet to come.

By way of full disclosure, I’m Roman Catholic. I’m a convert who became Catholic with eyes wide open rather than a “cradle Catholic” who was born into the religion. As such I’ve never ceased to be amazed at the antics of many of our Church leadership. I write it off to equal parts cognitive dissonance and a pathological desire to be popular.

The Democrat party has been anti-Catholic in its political positions since George McGovern ran for president yet the priesthood and heirarchy of the Roman Catholic Church in America tend to hail from Democrat constituencies. So on the one hand the Magesterium is teaching very traditional social values while on the other it is embracing without even a hint of credulity every lefty scheme that comes down the pike.

For instance, in 1983, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops declared nuclear weapons to be immoral and weren’t terribly fond of deterrence either. By 1988 they had decided SDI was destabliizing as was the US linking a Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan to future arms treaties. When communist terrorists were trying to create a people’s paradise in El Salvador, many of our bishops ignored what was happening to personal libery under the Sandinistas in Nicaragua as they stumbled over themselves to create the “sanctuary movment”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement

Without putting too fine a point on it but there was no daylight between the position of the Magesterium and that of the Kremlin on these issues.

Not that they are all commies or anything. But there were MOVEMENTS out there that had freakin Pete Seeger singing protest songs and James Earl Jones and Ed Asner at their rallies. How could you not be in favor of these things?

Similar stampedes took place on global warming and immigration.

This is where the cognitive dissonance comes in. When given the choice between seeming to endorse a religious conservative for office and seeming to endorse a heterodox leftist there is no limit to the contortions a large share of our bishops won’t put themselves through to help the lefty. To wit: by the black letter of the Catechism of the Catholic Church supporting abortion is forbidden. If a public figure does so this failure is compounded by “scandal”, that is, an action that could cause others to question their faith. The fact that there are very few bishops in the nation who have taken steps to discipline pro-abort advocates and politicians especially when they proclaim themselves to be devout.

The second strain is the want to be liked. For most of American history, Catholics were THE OTHER. It was a foreign religion practiced by all manner of foreigners who either couldn’t speak English (Italians, Poles, etc.) or who could barely speak it (the Irish, it goes without saying). What other religion still has amendments to state constitutions directly aimed at its religious schools?

Just when things were going well with JFK (another devout Catholic) in the White House, he gets killed and the whole counter culture begins. If there was anything less cool in the 1960s than being in ROTC it was being a Catholic who believed in monogamy and abstinence until marriage not to mention avowing any religion that did not use mind altering drugs. Being cool is still important and despite his views on abortion Obama, that epitome of coolness, was invited to give a commencement address at a Catholic university.

This mindset was most egregiously on display during the 2008 election. The Catholic heirarchy — and I have to digress here for a moment to emphasize that we have many traditional bishops in this country who have fought the good fight for decades — wanted to catch the Hope-and-Change wave and had a problem: Barrack Obama loves him some abortion. Not just plain vanilla abortion. He is in favor of partial birth aboriton. He is in favor of killing a kid who happens to survive the abortion procedure.

Demonstrating again a contortionist skill that would gain them employment at any county fair in the country the bishops issued a document called “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.”

As first blush it looks like a strong statement in favor of life which would not have helped Obama, or any other elected Democrat for that matter, until one reads deeper.

34. Catholics often face dificult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s intent is to support that position. In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other important moral issues involving human life and dignity.

35. There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable position may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons. Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.

In other words if you feel like the opposition to the war in Iraq or midnight basketball or furthering the ends of labor unions or any other pet peeve are “morally grave reasons” you can vote for the pro-abort. And they got what they wanted: American Catholics gave a majority of their votes to Obama.

Then came Obamacare which gave the bishops a real taste of what happens when you create a moral equivalence between universal health care and abortion. You get them both.

As reported in the Wall Street Journal, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops was heartbroken and gobsmacked, or gobsmacked and heartbroken, when they got the bad news about the elimination of an exemption for religious conscience in health plans.

President Obama telephoned Archbishop Dolan on Friday morning to tell him of the decision, said a spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. The pair had discussed the issue during a November meeting, during which the archbishop “got the message that they could work together,” said the spokeswoman, Sister Mary Ann Walsh.

The issue was likely to form the “backdrop to future relations,” she said. “It’s too big to ignore… the elephant is tramping around in the sanctuary.”

An administration official on Tuesday confirmed the call was made on Friday and reiterated comments made by Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius that the administration is committed to its partnerships with faith-based groups.

Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D., Conn.), a Catholic who supports abortion rights and access to contraception, said she thought the White House had handled the decision “very well” by being open to listening to religious leaders. “Contraception is about preventing unintended pregnancy,” she said. “I think that they did what they needed to do.”

So up until November Archbishop Dolan was being led to believe that he and the Obama Administration could work together and there would be a conscience exemption in the health care reform regulations and then he gets a call telling him that he’s been played for a chump.

It is really difficult to understate the cultural significance of this decision. If Congress doesn’t intervene and we end up with a pro-abort in the White House, which seems virtually certain regardless of how Obama fares in November, it is hard to see how this precedent will not be applied first to euthanasia, which seems to be the next big thing, and then to abortion. If left as it is, it really marks the end of independent churches in the United States.

The decision even managed to concern the Washington Post’s E. J. Dionne, another of the “smells and bells” Catholics on the left, or Catholycs as my friend Tom Crowe terms them, whose collective ass gets tired when confronted with the whole issue of morality.

One of Barack Obama’s great attractions as a presidential candidate was his sensitivity to the feelings and intellectual concerns of religious believers. That is why it is so remarkable that he utterly botched the admittedly difficult question of how contraceptive services should be treated under the new health care law.

His administration mishandled this decision not once but twice. In the process, Obama threw his progressive Catholic allies under the bus and strengthened the hand of those inside the Church who had originally sought to derail the health care law.

Reading all of this I was reminded of one of my favorite jokes, involving a guy in a bar and leprechaun. I won’t retell it here because this is a family website but I will link to one of the many variations here.

And I’d like to ask Archbishop Dolan and a lot of other members of our heirarchy, “You’re how old? And you still believe in leprechauns?”

COMMENTS

  • Marcus_Traianus

    …what is most important to the Catholic Church anymore. On one hand we are told the sanctity of life is of the utmost importance. Then in 2008 we get the wink-wink-nod-nod that Obama was their guy. Slightly confusing, as you pointed out, given his abortion position. The two are intellectually irreconcilable.

    So in a manner that Aquinas would be proud of I exercised my virtue- or the good use of my free-will and voted for the other guy.

    Virtue and sound principles are timeless. It is about time the church learned that trying to gain popularity using the latest fad is not a lasting way to attract parishioners. No matter how pleasing the rhetoric seems to

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      I wish our own candidates would discuss making health ins more like auto ins and how we get prices down overall so that any program that dealt with pre-existing conditions would be for a much smaller universe of people.

      • edintexas

        Auto insurance, or bond showing fiscal ability, is only required for motor vehicles being operated on public highways. People who own motorized vehicles which are not operated on public roads are not required to buy vehicle insurance, or post a bond. People who drive motor vehicles, but do not own same, are not required to buy vehicle insurance.

        Any governmental mandate for health insurance must be based on whether the person is alive. That should, itself, be anathema to anyone who claims to be conservative, much less Conservative.

        • jakeofalltrades

          You get one shot at freedom; after that, you get the hammer for life.

          Under Obamacare/Romneycare, you don’t even get the opportunity to be freely responsible – an opportunity that almost every American takes on their own without more than the tort system needed to persuade them.

        • snowshooze

          This would also require caps on Malpractice Insurance.
          The Market would take care of the rest.
          Pretty soon, you would see office visits for $100.00.. no more $5 per pill Aspirin..
          I know, a crazy idea. I am certain the entire Insurance Industry will send someone out for my scalp now…
          If everyone had to pay the real world actual vale of the services they needed… cut out an entire empire that has devoloped between their house and the Doctor’s office… I am thinking it would introduce reality into Health Care.

          • rightkindofred

            …but the health care “industry” would be the first to oppose “self-pay,” as it would result in massive deflation in that sector of the economy. The newest and most expensive buildings in the typical American towns are the hospitals…built with government money.

          • YnotNOW

            is to cover “catastrophic” possiblities. If there were no insurance, how many people could afford heart surgery, cancer treatment, etc.? Hospitals would still feel “morally obligated” to provide such life-saving care, and would not be able to collect payment (or only a small percentage) from the actual patients. Driving hospitals into bankruptcy. Which would then drive a public outcry toward government intervention.

            Insurance has a valid purpose, and should be used for such.
            (and not the market-distorting extension beyond that purpose)

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      I can’t figure out what’s going on with evangelicals. They are every bit as squirrely.

      • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

        …very parallel to what streiff is describing for the Catholic Church.

        In part, it’s a guilt over past racism dating back to the civil rights era that Marxists like Jim Wallis and Ron Sider exploited to push the church left on politics. Santorum and Brownback are parallel politicians who have bought into this model.

        • YnotNOW

          to compromise what they “know” to be true and right. Those who don’t have a firm grasp on the source of Truth can be led astray, even with the best of intentions. Incremental at first, and then further and further.

          That is why we need a savior, after all, to save us from our sinful inclinations.

          • aesthete

            Christians in politics are consistently stooopid when it comes to these Faustian bargains with either of the two major parties: in this case, there is no way that the Democratic party would craft a healthcare bill, and exclude from its proceedings one of their most lucrative constituencies (the abortion industry). Obama will start listening to Catholic bishops the second they can send him and the Democratic party a check as big as the one he gets from the abortion lobby, plain and simple. I’m sure he appreciates their useful idiocy, though.

    • jlsankot

      my Catholic Church to be in the running for a popularity contest.

      I want my Catholic Church to be my rock and be there when I need spiritual help with direct answers to my direct questions.

      No one or nothing can be the “be all to end all”, and that includes the Catholic Church. I could not believe my ears when I heard the Church was in favor of 0care! It just doesn’t make any sense.

      I, too, am a Convert and I joined because of the stabilization the Church offered in the mid-sixties. As soon as I joined, they started to “change” things and it has slowly, but surely, become more liberal. This is not the way to “attract parishioners”, but it could be a sure-fire way to lose them!

      Bishops, PAY ATTENTION!

      • arthurjake

        I am stationed in Germany where I see some of the most beautiful churches that are also the most dead. Europe turned secular and the church went along. Sadly the most converted to religion in most of Europe is Islam. Women surprising make up a big part of the converts. People in the end want real guidance and they want a rock that they can help base there faith on. The church in Europe should have stuck to its guns and the church in America should have learned from mistakes already made.

  • YnotNOW

    See for example:

    ACTION ALERT from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops:
    ?Please continue to urge your Representative and Senators to co-sponsor and support the Respect for Rights of Conscience Act.?

    http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/index.cfm

    and…

    Cardinal-designate Timothy M. Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, has recorded a video message bluntly stating that the Obama administration has a habit of advancing policies that violate the U.S. Constitution.

    ?But I am afraid the administration is on the wrong side of the Constitution again,? Dolan said in the video.

    The new video message is the latest step in an escalating and historically unprecedented confrontation between the Roman Catholic Church and an American president.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/top-us-catholic-bishop-administration-wrong-side-constitution-again

    • YnotNOW

      Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York has said, framing homosexual marriage as a civil right equates those who oppose it with those who practice either ?intentional or willfully ignorant racial discrimination.?

      Dolan is predicting ?a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions and to the detriment of both institutions.?

      www.ManhattanDeclaration.org

    • Repair_Man_Jack

      this policy could end up being rescinded.

      • lineholder

        I have a question that perhaps you or someone else might answer.

        There are a lot of “the Secretary will determine” statements written into O-care. Suppose we get a Repub elected to President, but we don’t get enough elected to Congress to repeal the law. In such a case, would it be a viable option to use those “the Secretary will determine” provisions included within the law and reissue policy position statements that would be more in favor of free-market options???

        • Repair_Man_Jack

          In fact, if we were to go “Full-Metal Neaderthal” with some of these, Dem. Senators might be open to at least a partial repeal.

          • lineholder

            I’ve been wondering about whether this is an option or not. There are so many of these statements included within the context of the law that pertain so many different elements of our health care system, including both Medicare and Medicaid.

            And I think you’re right…if it came down to watching us use these provisions that have been written into this single piece of legislation as a mechanism to bring about changes across the spectrum of entitlement programs pertaining to health without having to go back and totally alter previous pieces of legislation…Dems would start to swing to the side of wanting O-care repealed!

          • lineholder

            How much leeway do we have on this? Would it allow us to pursue privatizing Medicare? Means testing it? Would it let us pursue options like vouchers? Would it let states use to offer vouchers for Medicaid if they chose to do so?

            If it would let us have these kinds of options, then why aren’t Repub candidates saying “We are going to pursue full repeal of O-care, but if that does not take place, then we will….” and show how they can turn this piece of legislation on its head in a way that might promote growth in the private sector and more jobs??

            Also, it gives them a very vivid basis on which the general public can compare the approach that would be taken by Repubs versus Dems.

          • Repair_Man_Jack

            but I’d love to see a GOP President push this stuff until the Dems went to court to block the use of executive power under the aegis of The Affordable Care Act.

          • lineholder

            so I’ll put this last statement.

            If you happen to find out more information on this, will you keep us posted, please?

          • funwithknives

            “…The Secretary shall…” and it boggles the mind that this, in any way, shape, or form can be contrued as “…Congress shall make the laws…”.

            I am continually amazed that Jews and Catholics can support Progressive politics, policies and those that represent them.
            What ever a Gov’t promises, can be just as easily taken away, and this is a certainty , if you examine history.
            While a written contract {such as The Constitution} seemingly should be one of the rocks we all stand on, in the same vein, The Bible and The Torah are there for a like reason, yet how many Really Use Them? {in all honesty?}
            Too late, many of faith find out a hard simple truth:”… if men were angels, no laws would be neccessary….” But men are Not angels, and your faith is always in you and surrounds you. It is something you can always depend on, as so many prove by their every day actions. Why in so many cases, is it apparently abandoned?
            Seemingly once again, Barry has become a mindless destructor, alienating another sub-sect of America. Do yourselves a favor sometime, and add up all the various groups of citizenry affected by 3.2 years of BHO and His Minions. Just as in the truism:…a million here and a million there, and pretty soon you’re talkin’ about some real money…”, this all adds up. Where is the GOP outreach to these potential allies? They are everywhere and have reasons to associate, with like minds. Reince, B U D D Y …, are you listening?

          • bruceinva

            Problem with that is it just won’t happen if Romney is the new Pres. He can’t undermine his own legacy.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            Even assuming we get a Republican president who can get his cabinet appointee through a Democratic Senate (or filibuster if we get 50+ votes) – this secretary will still find it almost impossible to navigate through the rule-making process in the face of opposition from the lower-level bureaucrats – and even then, if finally a rescinding rule is issued, you can be sure the Democrats will march straight to court and get an injunction until things wend their way through the courts, by which time irreversible changes will have taken effect.

          • lineholder

            but also about utilizing the power that has been granted by the law to the Secretary to place an addendum on previous rulings that are more free-market oriented or that give greater leeway to the states.

            I’ve been thinking about this option quite a bit in the last two days. I think it is possible that the inclusion of the “Secretary” provisions in the law might allow us the opportunity to expand previous rulings in a way that won’t necessarily negate previous rulings…just minimize and/or eliminate the economic damage, open doors of opportunity for the private sector, and quite possibly put Dems in a position where they would voluntarily pursue repealing the law rather than watching Rs turning it inside out with free-market options the left doesn’t want to see succeed.

          • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

            The language is there that could enable conservatives to reverse course by addenda, etc. This would be a second-tier level to redirect the effects of Obamacare into a less damaging or possible better direction given the almost certainty that we can’t repeal Obamacare in Congress (and any court decision will be limited in scope, I would wager).

            So in theory, the regulatory path is an alternative approach, and one that we might have to resort to.

            What I was referring to, though, was the devil in the details – as Art Chance has been saying for years that the Democrats own the bureaucracy/civil service and have their folks in place to frustrate every Republican administration’s efforts to change direction.

            In practice that means that the holdover bureaucrats will use all the regulation and procedures to hamstrings efforts to properly issue new regulations – and be ready to go to the courts or the media as to how the new regulations were a violation of process, etc.

            Its a trap that Republicans have fallen into for countless years – and unless our next President were committed to ruthlessly purge the ranks – and deal with the media firestorm that the Democrats will raise (just remember the firestorm over Bush’s legal firing of federal prosecutors) – the bureaucrats will outlast the Republican administration until the pendulum swings again.

            Over time, if we had consistent Republican leadership, we could change the culture. But I haven’t seen any evidence that any of our Presidential nominees have the slightest awareness of this challenge. And then they’re surprised when their reforms are frustrated.

          • lineholder

            But as an alternate path, it does provide a lot of possibilities. It would be much simpler to get a 50% majority for appointment to the position than 2/3 majority for repeal. And I think the American people despise O-care enough that for Republicans to acknowledge an alternative path could end up being a positive influence on turnout in the vote in Nov 2012.

            Of the candidates we do have, the only I see who might even be remotely willing to take on that much heat is Newt Gingrich. And I’m not adamant in believing that he would pursue this course…only that his history indicates he’s more than willing to “buck the system”.

            Romney has already indicated that he favors “progressive” ideas, and I don’t see him as having the backbone it would take to follow through with this. In regards to Santorum, I’ve not seen anything to indicate he has much creativity or the kind of initiative that would be necessary to succeed in this.

            Glad to know you see the potential of the idea, though. I’m not saying that it is a given. Only that it might be a viable option if repeal isn’t possible.

      • In The Hook

        The Catholic Church has no interest in keeping government small as it is not a political entity. In fact, it’s plenty fair to argue that Catholics can be on either side of the issue as to whether government should have an expansive social safety net or not given its mandate to help the poor. The question is merely over which is more effective: government or private charity.

        That’s why you saw the Church take a more or less neutral approach to Obamacare save for the public funding of abortion. The elimination of this conscience provision has lit a fire in the Church like you would not believe. Not only are grassroots Catholics incensed but for once the actual hierarchy of the Church is taking up arms here. They’re gonna go nuclear on Obama if they don’t back off here.

        I would take exception streiff, that the idea that the Church you can support a pro-abortion candidate and be in compliance with Church teachings.

        This line… Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil… is actually extremely strong and direct language for the Church. It would mean that you are supporting a pro-abortion candidate because the other guy is in support of nuking another country or launching a pre-emptive war for no reason (not like Iraq or Afghanistan)

        And contrary to your statement that the USCCB wanted to figure out a way to jump on board with Obama, this was voted on and approved in November 2007.. well before Hope and Change came into the vernacular.

        • streiff

          if you read the document they clearly put health care, war, labor rights, and immigration on the same plane. And they also state that Church teachings shouldn’t be used in partisan elections, clearly a reference to abortion and the problems caused by Kerry continuing to receive the Eucharist.

          You are correct about the document being from 2007, but Obama announced his candidacy in Feb 2007 so I don’t see your point.

          • In The Hook

            This was approved in November 2007, which means it was probably written in 2006. The Church moves like a glacier most of the time, especially when it comes to things outside her typical mandate, like politics.

            As a Catholic I assure you that labor rights, immigration and access to health care are NOT on the same level as abortion. War? Yes. Like abortion, war kills people. It should absolutely be on the same plane as abortion. Same goes with the death penalty. When it comes to protecting the sanctity of life, the Church is in line with God. All life is valued the same. Unborn, born, good and evil. All men are equal in God’s eyes, even those who take life from another.

            That said, you can find plenty of documents out there that note that the death penalty is permissible under certain circumstances and that war can be justifiable… but there is NEVER a justification for abortion. Ever. Catholics are required to keep that in mind when they vote.

          • streiff

            The pastoral letter that was required to be read in every parish before the November 2008 elections specifically highlighted the portion that said you can vote for a pro abort so long as you are voting for the pro abort for other reasons not to further abortion.

            You actually misstate Church doctrine on both war and the death penalty. The catechism embraces Just War theory and acknowledges that the death penalty can be imposed:

            2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

            If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

            Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm – without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself – the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”68

            Again, the document doesn’t say there is ever a justification for abortion but it clearly states that there is a justification for voting for a pro abort.

        • aesthete

          At the time, the document was seen and interpreted by Catholics as a way to excuse a vote for an anti-OIF, pro-abort politician (under the premise that the Iraq War was an equal or greater moral calamity). Of course, my Catholic friends who voted for Obama on the basis of the Iraq war (and don’t kid yourself, that’s exactly what the US Conference of Catholic Bishops were targeting) promptly forgot about the wars when Obama was in charge of them, ditto the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

    • bk

      It seemed like prior to 2010 that the powers that be in the Catholic Church were so into the “social justice” and “open borders” buckets that they overlooked everything else, including abortion. But it seemed like when ObamaCare introduced federal funding of abortion (regardless of what people like Ben Nelson or the yellow dog Democrats were saying) that the tide shifted.

      I thought there was much more of a stronger anti-abortion position coming to the forefront during the 2010 election campaign, and Obama has certainly thrown all the moderate Catholics under the bus bigtime.

    • Ausonius

      This is the result of “liberal Catholics” ignoring one of the basic rules of logic: if part of a statement is wrong, then it falsifies the entire statement.

      “They do a great job in restoring faith in the country, and restoring the economy, and reducing the massive unemployment, and reinvigorating businesses. Oh, and they want to execute all the Jews.”

      So is it moral to vote for a group that can do so many good things, and just one bad one?

      And yes, the parallel is not unjust! On my own Catholic school faculty is an older woman who proudly wore an Obama for President” button in her classes, and who openly argued that MAObama’s opposition to war and his proposal for universal health-care and his concern for the poor over-shadowed his support for infanticide.

      Idiots!

      • In The Hook

        What’s your point? The faculty member was flat out wrong, just like the huge majority of Catholics who use artificial contraception.

        • Ausonius

          “What’s your point?”

          ???

          Yes, the point is that the faculty member – like all so-called liberal Catholics – embrace a contradiction and are therefore “flat out wrong.”

          One might be able to tolerate the illogicalities of a Catholic pacifist, and simply disagree with a liberal Catholic e.g. opposed to the death penalty in all instances.

          But with abortion no rationale makes sense, if you claim to be Catholic, even a “liberal” one.

          The bishops have only themselves to blame, by refusing for too many decades to attack the issue head on politically, and to excommunicate the Bidens and the Kennedys and other so-called Catholic politicians who go out of their way to attack the unborn and further the idiocy known as the sexual revolution from the 1960′s.

  • bluerose75

    Rush is on now reading from WSJ article from Anne Marie Turner about how Romney lied about his Romneycare. The article states the statements made by Romney during the debate were misleading, distortions and not true. It is beautiful..pointing out how Romney lied about Romneycare being different from Obamacare, Romney lying about Medicare cuts (only the Feds can cut Medicare not STATES) and how if you look at both Romneycare and Obamacare they are essentially the same!!

    Anne Marie states Romney is going to have one heck of a hard time claiming he will repeal Obamacare considering Romneycare even has the same tier levels of insurance. In fact, Obamacare essentially uses the same tiers as Obamacare.

    And Rush points out how Santorum slammed Romney effectively by claiming Romneycare was the first in the name that makes you HAVE TO BUY INSURANCE just because you are breathing!

    GO RUSH!!! Expose Romney for the Fraud he is!!

    • streiff

      unless you want to go before a “death panel’

    • WillWong

      [truncated quote because of Fair Use violation. Don't do this again -- streiff]

      But he actually took Tom Brokaw to task for not mentioning the fact that Tom was wrong to begin with…..Essentially Tom Brokaw and NBC are pissed that Romney is trying to destroy Newt by using them.
      ————————————————————————————

      Rush Limbaugh on Monday blasted newsman Tom Brokaw for complaining about the Mitt Romney campaign?s use of an anti-Newt Gingrich clip from Brokaw ? while disregarding the fact that the clip?s charges against Gingrich were false.

      Limbaugh also suggested that, although Romney is outspending Gingrich by a 5-1 margin in Florida, Gingrich?s core conservatism can overcome Romney?s well-funded attack ads.

      And he asserted that Romneycare is ?identical? to the Obamacare Romney now derides.

      Limbaugh started his radio show by saying: ?Unlike Tom Brokaw, I don?t care if a campaign wants to use any of me in their spots.

      ?On Saturday, the Romney campaign released a new ad featuring a clip from 1997, with Tom Brokaw, which opened with Brokaw crowing that Newt Gingrich?s congressional peers had found him guilty of ethics violations.

      Read more on Newsmax.com: Rush Slams Romney’s Brokaw Ad: It’s False
      Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

      • WillWong

        Sorry! Was responding to another post! Wasn’t paying attention!

        • streiff

          and quoting Newsmax is also a social faux pas.

          • jakeofalltrades

          • WillWong

            At least I tried to write my own foreword to those articles I quoted! Next time I will just add the link!

  • kipling

    I cannot imagine Jesus, John the Baptist, or one of the Old Testament prophets sitting there – like Rick Warren – when Obama made the smug statement about abortion and when life starts being above his pay grade.

    The Old School response would have been: “You are durn right it is above your pay grade which is why God settle that issue you for you in Scripture.” Probably followed by something about white washed tombs and sons of your father the devil.

    • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

      something on the order of, “Well, Mr. Obama, you say that today, but when you were a State Senator in Illinois, you had no problem voting for a law that would have legalized infanticide when a child who was the subject of an abortion was, in fact, born alive. You supported the idea that medical personnel on scene should be allowed to withhold care from that infant and allow it to die.

      You didn’t think the decision was above your pay grade then, again I ask you, when does life begin?”

      And, stay on point until he got either an answer or Obama walked off the stage.

      • kipling

        I sometimes feel that some “evangelical leaders” lack the force of their own convictions and sacrifice those convictions on the altar of public acclaim.

        There is no neutrality when it comes to evil. There is no form of compromise.

      • WillWong

        Rick Warren will never say something like that….not too seeker sensitive if he does that!

  • http://punditpawn.wordpress.com punditpawn

    With Haley and Christie going full RINO, I’d support Newt 200%.

    Disgusting. One of the weakest links on the Republican side is the House of Representatives, that looks more like a Romney cigar room than the financial pillars of the people.

    • streiff

      there are plenty of other campaign stories available

  • romeg

    Checked her conscience at the gate when she went to work for Obama.

    • larueladue

      She lost her conscience long before… At least by 2003, when she vetoed some anti-abortion legislation… Followed by more of the same in 2005, 2006 and 2008.

      She hasn’t had one for a longtime…

      • funwithknives

        agreed?
        Imagine, but not too hard: ” ..is everything fine?” {pause} “OH,(some surprise) Everything’s fine?!!” {pause] “NeverMind, Everything’s fine!!… Well, that’ll Be Lunch then ,right?”

  • rightkindofred

    …to include abortion and birth control in Obamacare. But for these, Catholics would likely have supported it by a substantial margin. Instead, crap like this is why there are a lot of Catholics who are former Democrats.

  • http://www.ArchitecturalShots.com mdyou

    …this is most interesting. Locally (Southern California) the talk lately has been regarding this very subject. A doctor administering a preventative care colonoscopy finds a pollup, which according to the required medical coding, is now labeled a ‘diagnosis’ and ‘treatment’. The required ‘free’ preventative care now is coded and charged as diagnosis and treatment and the doctor/hospital bills accordingly, bringing the patient’s deductible into play.

    So, if we know it’s a baby, how is the morning-after pill covered for free?

  • jiminga

    altar boy and all….even took Latin in high school, but left the Church long ago because of its vacillation on issues like this. Not to be unkind, but I was too often reminded on Sunday’s about my financial “duty” to the church which seemed to be way too important to the priests.

    And I’ve been a conservative for 50 years and couldn’t resolve the Church’s situation ethics.

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