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Mitt Romney: Corporate Raider or Capitalist Hero?

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On today’s edition of Coffee and Markets, Brad Jackson and Ben Domenech are joined by Francis Cianfrocca to discuss Mitt Romney‘s history at Bain Capital, how some of his investments may have killed jobs, and the disingenuous statistics his campaign is now using to inflate his record.

We’re brought to you as always by BigGovernment and Stephen Clouse and Associates. If you’d like to email us, you can do so at coffee[at]newledger.com. We hope you enjoy the show.

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COMMENTS

  • http://theconservativehand.com Brookhaven

    …which is essentially the same as “house flipping”, only using businesses instead of real estate.

    No doubt, Romney knows a lot about business, but the business he was in had negative consequences (imho) for businesses in general, because it forced corporations to focus on short term returns.

    Corporations that focused on long term profits and stability have always been prime targest for a leveraged buyout, because–on paper–they look less profitable.

    If there is one lasting legacy of the leveraged buyout mania of the 80′s and 90′s, it’s that businesses focus less on the long term, and more on the short term–if for no other reason than self defense against a possible leveraged buyout.

    And, Mitt Romney was at the center of creating this situation.

    You can argue about whether it has been good or bad for business in general, but you can’t argue that Mitt Romney was at the center of a business practice that caused business to focus on the short term rather than the long term.

    • http://theconservativehand.com Brookhaven

      Here is a quick description (using simple round numbers).

      The goal of a leveraged buyout is to never use your own money in the process. Hence the name leveraged, because all the money involved is money borrow from someone else.

      You spot a business that you decide is undervalued (usually a publicly traded one).

      You determine how much it would take you to purchase the company. In this case, let’s say it’s a round $1 million.

      You go to the bank and arrange financing for 100% of the purchase price–all $1 million. To get the loan, you promise to repay the bank $1.2 million one year from today.

      Remember, the goal is to not invest any of your own money. But, few businesses that can be purchased for $1 million will show a profit of $1.2 million over the next year (which is what would be required to pay back the bank loan). So, how do you pay bay the $1.2 million without using any of your own money?

      1) You make the company look better on paper, so you can resell it for more than $1.2 million. This is usually done by cutting expenses to the bone. You only have to improve the companies bottom line long enough to resell it for a profit. So, items like training, R&D, new product development, and product lines that have potential for big profits down the road; but aren’t showing a profit yet–areas important to the LONG TERM viability of a company–are the first to go. But, you’re not concerned about the long term viability of the company, you just want to resell it for a profit a quickly as possible.

      2) Shut down the business and sell its assests (real estate, equipment, etc…).

      Let’s say you manage to get $1.5 million out of the business (either by reselling it or shutting it down). So, at the end of the year, you replay the bank loan of $1.2 million leaving you $300,000 profit. All made without investing a dime of your own money.

      That’s the business Mitt Romney was in.

      That’s Mitt Romney’s business experience.

      • bogeyman

        this model?

        • acat

          Prior to Staples and Office Depot and others, most small to middle size companies got their office products from small, local dealers who provided customer service, took orders, and delivered everything from file folders to file cabinets.

          Staples created jobs, but .. like WalMart, it did so by putting small competitors out of work. Looking *just* at Staples’ numbers, just at jobs created at Staples, completely ignores all the jobs lost at Staples’ competitors.

          I don’t have a *problem* with disruptive business models, but if I can think of scraping up some family office supply company that went under when Staples came to town, then at least 30% of the Dems can….

          Romney is weak on jobs, and jobs are likely going to be *the* issue this election.

          Mew

          • The_Rebel

            First of all, that is how capitalism works. Someone (Staples, Office Depot, Office Max) comes up with a better way to sell their products and the buying public gravitates to them. Secondly, not all of those so-called office boxes made it over the years. There will always be winners and losers in new capitalistic ventures. And thirdly, there are many independent office suppliers still around today, such as W.B. Mason, which was founded in 1898 not far from me in Brockton, MA, and which has less than 2000 employees in their 29 distribution centers. And what about all of the new on-line independent office suppliers who can sell for less than the Staples boxes? I get many of my supplies through them.

            It’s called capitalism, and it has always been a net jobs creator. As opposed to communism, which stifles initiative and takes away incentive.

          • acat

            I don?t have a *problem* with disruptive business models, but if I can think of scraping up some family office supply company that went under when Staples came to town, then at least 30% of the Dems can?.

            I don’t have a problem with Staples putting the competition out of business. The atmospherics this year, though .. #OWS alone .. make it a remarkably bad idea.

            Arguing “It’s just capitalism” is going to get a reply of “Then capitalism sucks” this year.

            Romney running on jobs is just #FAIL

            Mew

          • The_Rebel

            I read what you posted, but you obviously didn’t get my drift. Your mistake is calling that Staples model a”disruptive business model”. There’s nothing disruptive about it-that is how capitalism works. If anyone wants to make the argument that “capitalism sucks this year”, then they can join the ranks of the Occupy movement. Let’s see how far that gets them.

          • acat

            Romney is weak on the key issue of 2012.

            A disruptive business model, by the way, is anything that significantly changes the existing marketplace, as opposed to extending the existing marketplace.

            So, selling disposable television sets, using the internet to sell airline tickets, using a big box to sell products at reduced cost … these are all disruptive as the existing marketplace is crushed. (Zenith, Philco, various travel agents, thousands of mom-and-pop retailers in small towns, being the “victims”)

            Again, I don’t have a problem with disruptive models. This isn’t about whether capitalism works or not. This is about Romney’s inability to *sell* capitalism.

            Stay on topic, The_Rebel. Okay?

            Mew

          • http://theconservativehand.com Brookhaven

            The IPod was a disruptive business model. It destroyed the physical media business, but replaced with a new distribution model for music.

            The PC did the same thing to the typewriter & typing pool.

            The leveraged buyout business is not a disruptive business model, in that it fails to replace old business models with new, expanded business models.

            It’s more accurate to say the leveraged buyout model is a DESTRUCTIVE business model. It makes money by destroying businesses, but doesn’t replace the destroyed industry with a new one.

          • acat

            My reply to bogeyman was to point out the flaw in the argument that Staples created jobs.

            Yes, Staples created jobs *at Staples*, but .. how many jobs in the field of office supply did it cost?

            It’s an argument we can expect to hear if Romney is the nominee.

            Mew

          • Marcus_Traianus

            Staples and similar industries (lets say AMPAD) were consolidating for a reason. Goods produced for that industry were slowly being moved to China and other offshore locations which added to downward price pressures. Legacy US industries could not compete with that model. In many case because there was no wage flexibility or the gaps were just too far apart. If we want to play the blame game, in many cases you can blame inflexible unions.

            So as a practical matter and frankly a matter of survival, there was cost cutting of all sorts. That manifested itself in consolidation which in many case did cost jobs. I think the thought here is that some jobs or a smaller amount of jobs in what will hopefully be a nascent, yet growing sector of the business is better than none at all. After all, that is American business history and the ability to respond to those situations is part of our success as a nation.

            This stuff is intuitive, easily explained and not that hard to understand. For example, I bet the horse traders were pretty pissed off at trains and automobiles. Or perhaps there were a bunch of people really pissed off about the Industrial Revolution. But in the end we changed, adapted and were better for it.

            It is simply amazing to me that people fall back into Marxist rhetoric as a means of trying to promote their candidate or demote another. Ditto trying to channel Obama and then essentially validating his election approach.

            It’s pretty easy. On Obama’s side of the stage we have the most economically destructive, job killing President in our history. On the other side, we don’t. In fact we have some people who actually took chances, created jobs and helped retain industries that probably would have otherwise become memories.

          • The_Rebel

            and the weekly magazines are really pissed off at the invention of the internet.

          • acat

            And they’re not the only ones… but that doesn’t change the flaw in the argument that Staples created jobs.

            It’s true, Staples did create jobs, but it also cost jobs … and Romney really doesn’t have a defense for that little detail.

            Mew

          • The_Rebel

            I said above that Staples was a “net” jobs creator. I’m not going to repeat my whole argument, since it apparently has been lost on you. As far as Romney not having a defense for the jobs lost, he is using the same argument I am- a net jobs creator.

          • acat

            Why should I give up?

            Staples created jobs – if we just count “Staples Jobs”, it went from zero to not-zero.

            If, on the other hand, we count “Office products industry jobs”, it *decreased*.

            So .. you and Romney can go ahead and look at the narrow argument, but you’re missing what the Dems are going to say… which is why Romney is a poor candidate.

            Heck, I *know* people who lost jobs when office product sales dried up.

            Mew

          • lizzie

            jobs created by Staples. Romney is only counting the Staples jobs created.

            If I had one wish, it would be to change the myth that American labor costs are not competitive in a global economy.

            Germany has the HIGHEST unit labor cost in the world, and until 2011, was the #1 exporter.

            One example from 2008. Whirlpool assembles washing machines in Ohio ($22/hour unit labor cost including health insurance benefits) and Germany ($35/hour unit labor cost excluding health insurance benefits).

            Front loading washing machine retailed in USA for $800. Worth that $35 for one hour of assembly time in Germany to export it to the USA.

            After NAFTA, one million USA manufacturing jobs moved to Canada.
            Once you de-link health insurance from the job (as McCain wanted todo), no excuse that USA labor is too expensive.

            When I had to buy a stove in 2006, I bought a Bosch (floor sample sale) because it was cheaper for Germany’s Bosch to assemble stoves in North Carolina for the US market than to export. It was the ONLY gas stove I could find that was actually made in the USA in 2006.

            I had to buy a washer and dryer too – last ones assembled by Maytag in Newton, Iowa before they started up in Mexico.

            I have a stockpile of 100% cotton sheets and towels MADE in the USA, because I refuse to buy sheets and towels made in Pakistan or Turkey or China, especially when there was zero excuse for shutting down the US textile industry except for the pressure from Big Box retailers for ever-lower costs.

            Sometimes, I think one reason for slow retail sales in America is all the people like me who just will NOT buy Made in China (except for tea, which is because USA has no really good eco-climate for tea cultivation).

            I spent 25 years in the thick of manufacturing and cost analysis. so many myths.

            but, acat does understand that Staples was not solely new jobs.

            and I do miss those small stationers. Cost is not everything, altho I am glad Staples has finally gotten customer-focussed even though their prices are high.

          • Marcus_Traianus

            on what would have happened to companies like Staples without market involvement in reshaping their business model and helping to consolidate the industry?

            Forget jobs for a moment. How about Staples balance sheet and returns. Bettter yet, how about their very existence.

            You can either dwell on the positive aspects of what people have done, note your concerns and then pass judgment on the situation holistically. Or you can dwell on what you perceive to be the negative aspects and man the ramparts of our enemy.

            Put a Marxist, Socialist, Alinskyite who has destroyed our economy stolen our rights and seriously diminished America’s role in the world against Romney and people will take Romney almost any time.

            I’ve grown a little tired of the argumentation which in action assumes this current President is some type of unbeatable second-coming of Thomas Jefferson instead of the disreputable, destructive person caught in flagrante stealing our rights and wealth.

        • http://theconservativehand.com Brookhaven

          Romney was in business what…30 years? And, the only example of Romney building up a company is Stalpels.

          That’s because virtually all of Romney’s business was leveraged buyouts.

          Romney didn’t create new businesses.
          Romney didn’t create new products.
          Romney didn’t open new markets.
          Romney didn’t create new jobs.

          In fact, Romney eliminated more businesses, products, markets, and jobs than he created.

          Sure, it’s just plain old fashioned capitalism, but In a year where jobs will be the #1 issue, running a guy that made his fortune by eliminating jobs and dismantling companies is not smart politics.

          • The_Rebel

            and the budget (when there is one) to escalate exponentially. We don’t want someone in there dismantling bloated government agencies and departments, nor eliminating government jobs. No, why would we want to do that?

          • acat

            Wafflin’ Willard is running as a Wall Street guy because his record as Governor of Massachusetts won’t win him the primary. In fact, it ought to get him laughed out of the room.

            Mew

          • The_Rebel

            Here are a few examples of his cutting, as well as other things he either did or proposed as Governor, many of which you are probably not aware of:

            Romney in 2002 proposed cutting the state income tax rate from 5.3% to 5%. The voters by referendum actually approved this in 2000 but the Dem legislature blocked it in 2002. When the legislature refused to consider his proposal, he placed it before them again in 2005 and 2006, to no avail. No one can say he didn?t try.

            The legislature imposed a retroactive tax on capital gains earnings, but Romney fought and succeeded in passing a bill preventing this, thus resulting in a rebate of $275 million on capital gains taxes collected in 2002.

            Considering the liberal blue state in which he governed, Romney kept spending increases over his four years to an average of 2.2%. Rather than increasing bloated state agencies, he consolidated the social service and public health bureaucracy and restructured the Metropolitan District Commission. He eliminated half of the executive branch?s press positions, saving $1.2 million. In 2006 he used his emergency fiscal powers to cut $425 million, aimed especially at local earmarks. The legislature would have rather dipped into the $1.2 billion rainy day fund.

            Federal welfare reform passed in 1995, but Massachusetts bypassed much of the federal requirements. Romney sought to bring the state?s welfare system up to the federal standards by increasing the number of hours each week that welfare recipients must work, and establishing a five-year limit for receiving benefits. He forced Medicaid recipients to make co-payments for certain services. He was also successful in getting legislation approved forcing new state workers to contribute 25% of their health insurance premiums (it was 15%). He also proposed changing the state?s pension system from a defined benefit system to a defined contribution system.

            Romney vetoed a ?card check? bill that would have allowed unions to organize without a secret ballot election

            Though the very liberal legislature fought Romney in most cases successfully, here are a few of his efforts to ease or eliminate regulations and privatize certain government functions:

            Pushed to change a union-backed law which makes it almost impossible to privatize or outsource state services.

            Pushed to deregulate the auto insurance industry, with Massachusetts being the only state that mandates maximum insurance rates and requires insurers to accept all applicants.

            Called for privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school.

            Proposed measures to eliminate civil service protection for all municipal workers except police and firefighters and exempt low-cost public construction jobs from the state?s wage law.

            Proposed easing decades-old state regulations on wetlands.

            Signed a bill streamlining the state?s cumbersome permitting processes for new businesses.

            The legislature was 80-85% democrat during Romney?s tenure as governor, but that didn?t stop him from issuing over 800 vetoes, most of which were overridden. One particularly unpopular one was his veto of an increase in the minimum wage, explaining that excessive raising of the minimum wage causes a loss of jobs.

            Did you know that Romney defended traditional marriage and vetoed stem cell funding? Or that he opposed driver?s licenses and in-state college tuition for illegal immigrants. Or that he defended Catholic Charities? right to restrict adoptions to man-woman couples?

            Sounds like a conservative to me, one that can beat Obama.

          • acat

            Let me reply with an image:

            That one right there is a key #Fail! to me.

            Romney was also frequently overruled by the legislature, his veto was overturned quite frequently, which leads me to question his ability to fight a rogue Congress.

            Romney failed to lead the State GOP to growth, they actually lost ground while he was in office.

            I note that several of your positives are mere “proposals” .. i.e. “words, just words”. Where’s the conservative beef?

            Mew

          • The_Rebel

            If you’re going to give us fancy images, at least get your facts straight. And I wouldn’t get my facts from The Boston Globe.

            To become a judge in MA you must submit an application to the MA Judicial Nominating Commission. This commission is composed of 21 members who review the applications and make recommendations for open judicial positions. Those recommendations are given to the Governor, who then makes the decision to appoint a judge. Then a governor’s council, made up of eight councillors elected every two years, must approve of the Governor’s selection. Given the fact that 80-85% of the legislature is made up by Democrats, and those eight councillors are elected in mostly Democrat districts, one wonders how any Republican judges were appointed by Romney.

            Yes, Romney had most of his vetoes overturned, and if you read all of my post you would have noticed that I said as much. What kind of a rogue Congress are you worried about him leading? If he becomes President, we should be controlling both Houses as well. That dog won’t hunt.

            And yes, Romney was able to only propose certain bills and initiatives due to the fact that almost 85% of the legislature was controlled by the Democrats. But at least we have a record of those proposals as insight into how he might govern as President, in which position he will have a more hospitable legislature behind him.

          • acat

            I’ll just ask one question then…

            Why didn’t Romney simply reject everyone until he got more Republicans?

            After all, this strategy is routinely used by the Democrats on the judiciary committee, so it’s not a new strategy…

            Mew

          • http://theconservativehand.com Brookhaven

            Romney’s record is growing government, not shrinking it.

            RomneyCare.

            Talk about anything else you want, but RomneyCare was the biggest expansion of any state government in history–and Mitt Romney did it.

  • williamjameson

    Romney passed the buck onto appointed CEO’s who built a some of the companies Bain bought………..not wise to take credit for the success of others while failing to define how the US economy works and at the same time Romney is running from his record as governor.

    Romney raised property fees, corporate fees, income fees and even commuter fees……another name for taxes.

    King of BAIN the site that begins the decline. Good interview!!
    http://www.kingofbain.com/

    Interesting read from former Romney campaign staffer

    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Gingrich-SuperPAC-Buys-Anti-Romney/2012/01/07/id/423346?s=al&promo_code=DE21-1
    The video was made by Jason Killian Meath, a former campaign aide to Romney during his 2008 bid for president. Entitled ?When Mitt Romney Came to Town,? it targets Romney?s tenure as CEO of Bain Capital, a private investment firm.

    At one point, a vintage photograph of Romney appears on the screen, as the narrator booms: ?Romney took foreign seed money from Latin America? to exploit ?dozens of American businesses? and the ?thousands of employees that worked there.?

    • lizzie

      http://www.kingofbain.com/
      That trailer gets it exactly correct.

      My career 1975-2001) and health were destroyed by private equity LBOs.

      Venture capitalists help build companies and jobs.

      Private equity LLCs who did ANY LOBOs de-industrialized America.

      Private equity and Hedge Funds destroyed the housing market.

      Romney does NOT understand how the REAL economy works.

      I have a BA from an elite college and three master’s degrees, and transitioned from manufacturing management on the factory floor to industry-specific global technical consulting, and then global supply chain management,

      and my career still ended by age 49 because I should have just gotten one of those Harvard MBAs and stolen millions that way.

      Instead, every year 1975-2001, I delivered one million dollars to one or another private equity shark’s personal bottom line, and then got “downsized” when I got “too old”.

      Leeches are more beneficial to humanity than private equity LBO sharks like Romney, who has NO SOUL.

      Romney should retire to his four homes and find a new hobby.

      • williamjameson

        from the FDIC which is as pathetic as it gets considering he was for and against Obama bailing out wallstreet. Romney pocketed $4million from the FDIC deal. We can do better and then some.

  • thosjefferson

    It’s amazing how so-called conservatives become anti-capitalists because they oppose one candidate, whether it’s because he’s Mormon or governed a mostly Democratic state and solved a health care problem with an 85% Democrat legislature.

    The alternative candidates are a bunch of career politicians who, like any effective lobbyists, can say the right things to appeal to the “base” but have never actually engaged in the hard work of investing and growing companies.

    We’re seeing Gingrich make Obama’s anti-capitalist arguments, and RedState is jumping on that bandwagon.

    Fascinating.

    • lepelerin

      He and his PAC are vetting Mitt finally. Don’t you think Obama won’t? If Mitt profitted off workers losing their jobs and as a result they lose everything, sooner or later it will come out. Better now then later!

    • The_Rebel

      There is at least one sane person around here. This diary is what I would expect from the DNC.

    • usedtobelib

      Can you believe these guys? Funny how they didn’t make these claims until their candidates began to fade or failed to gain traction.

      As for flipping houses. Do you understand how many middle class Americans bought run-down or simply underpriced houses in otherwise market-acceptable neighborhoods (ummm, you know they took a risk, don’t you–had to get a mortgage, assume some debt), worked all their spare hours after their day jobs, weekends, holidays fixing it up with their own hands, put it on the market, and made a buck or two.

      Benefits for society? They engaged in meaningful work, made a profit IF they figured correctly, made a profit for the businesses from whom they bought materials, and improved the neighborhoods and the value of houses in which they made their investment.

      Yet some think this is bad for society. So, it becomes clear that even so-called conservatives have a bent for killing initiative.

      What a crock. I am embarrassed that Red State posted this.

      • The_Rebel

        This is how it’s supposed to work. Hard working Americans take the initiative and undertake projects which are the heart and soul of capitalism. How much more main-stream can you get? There will always be winners and losers in such a society. Red State apparently wants to emphasize the losers to help make their point.

    • bogeyman

      This is a big mistake. How about Romney’s record as Governor?

      As Michelle Malkin puts it today:

      “Mitt Romney?s chronic flip-flopping political career is teeming with reasons to oppose his nomination ? from his support for racial preferences, to government funding of abortion, liberal judges, global warming enviro-nitwittery, TARP, auto bailouts, the Obama stimulus, gun control, and of course, individual health insurance mandates that presaged Obamacare.

      Instead of focusing on his long political record of expedience, incompetent non-Romneys have morphed into Michael Moore propagandists ? throwing not just Bain Capital under the bus, but wealth creators of all kinds who take risks in the private marketplace.

      We?re screwed.”

      • izoneguy

        She is a whiner.

        She has been hitting Perry from all sides since the beginning.

        The democrats will be going after Romney on Bain…..

        Perry & Newt are bringing it up now, while they still can.

        Perry has hit Romney on his record as Gov. of Mass. – I think
        just now more people are paying attention.

        Of course Romney was a crappy governor. But the democrats won’t
        bring that up, because they loved what Romney did as gov. of Mass.
        The democrats will showcase Romney as the “1% Posterboy.”

        • izoneguy

          ?Mitt Romney?s chronic flip-flopping political career is teeming with reasons to oppose his nomination ? from his support for racial preferences, to government funding of abortion, liberal judges, global warming enviro-nitwittery, TARP, auto bailouts, the Obama stimulus, gun control, and of course, individual health insurance mandates that presaged Obamacare.

          Instead of focusing on his long political record of expedience, incompetent non-Romneys have morphed into Michael Moore propagandists ? throwing not just Bain Capital under the bus, but wealth creators of all kinds who take risks in the private marketplace.

          We?re screwed.?

          Ah, Michelle – I guess you tuned Perry out early and never followed his campaign. I realize that you gal Sarah left you twisting in the wind so
          here is a re-cap:

      • JSobieski

        Disappointed with Newt and Perry on this point.

    • acat

      What Romneycare has done is to shift the cost from the individual medical providers to the State. ‘s part of why Massachusetts is following New York, California, and Illinois into bankruptcy.

      Good grief.

      Mew

    • onionman

      vehemently opposed the creation of a national bank and would have been 100% against the financialization of the economy.

      Others here (especially lizzie, thank you for your testimony) have noted the problems with the LBO model. In brief the issue here is not capitalism vs. anti-capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system that works better than any other, but capitalism and financialization are not the same thing, and just because something is legal does not make it moral. Just because what Willard did at Bain was not illegal does not mean that it was good or just or right. And just because he used (someone else’s) capital to leverage his buyout of companies does not make his actions “capitalist” in the Adam Smith sense of the word.

      Paul Volcker gets a lot of flak for serving as an economic advisor to Obama, but he was also the chairman of the Fed during Reagan’s tenure and (with Reagan) was responsible for the growth of the 80s. Volcker has stated that he cannot see any benefit to the financialization of the economy, and it’s easy to understand why: after Clinton signed NAFTA and G.W. Bush granted China Most Favored Nation trading status, the financialization of the American economy has meant the de-industrialization of America. Yes, Unions are also responsible. But as lizzie and others have noted, if you actually look at the numbers, the main problem is not unit-labor costs. The claim that “American workers are too expensive” is indefensible if you look at Germany’s economy.

    • williamjameson

      the same as the progressive moderate Romney. So get over it because every aspect of his life is on the table and clearly Romeny is 2nd choice or worse.

      This has less to do with capitalism and more to do with Romney’s work life, hell he claims to know how to fix the country but never says jack shitz so clearly he will be vetted and then some.

    • williamjameson

      make you guys the same as the progressive admitted moderate Romney. So get over it because every aspect of his life is on the table and clearly Romney is 2nd choice or worse.

      This has less to do with capitalism and more to do with Romney’s work life, hell he claims to know how to fix the country but never says jack shitz so clearly he will be vetted and then some.

  • thosjefferson

    Newt’s rhetoric is more anti-capitalist than either the DNC or Axelrod.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/gingrich-is-up-to-his-old-tricks-helping-democrats/2012/01/08/gIQAJ6wyjP_blog.html

    • williamjameson

      you can’t top that considering Mitts lousy record and failed healthcare that cost 8 times the projection. If he knew how the state worked he’d know his plan was lousy!!!

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        Get better at posting.

        • Juggernaut

          a good fight. RobomaCare or ObamneyCare, makes no difference considering the anti-captialist rants are a distraction from Romney’s record while his career is open game. We did the same in 2000 with Bush’s career.

    • thirstyboots

      I’m not sure why people are surprised. They do really have short memories. Those we were expecting better from Newt should read Senator Tom Coburn’s book.

  • Ender

    is perfectly legitimate in a Capitalist country. To bash it is to buy into the anti-capitalist Democratic narrative. We should be better than adopting Dem talking points which will be inevitably used in the General election. Why do their work for them?

    • izoneguy

      But we still have a choice that is not Romney…..

      Obama and his billion dollar campaign will go after Romney
      with the “Capitalism is bad” mantra…..

      Why deliver to the democrats the guy they want?????

      Romney has done a horrible job in defending his tenure as Bain Capital CEO.

      I don’t see Romney doing any better against Obama.

    • bonnman

      Its detailing a failure of Romney’s narrative. A good businessman can be someone who creates a business that provides goods and services and jobs for a community while making a profit. A good businessman could also be someone who makes himself and a few partners a whole lot of money but creating zero jobs. Both are acceptable but only one is a successful narrative in today’s economic climate when people want good solid jobs. Romney’s story is full of glaring holes and the Dems and Obama will hammer him on it the entire campaign. Romney’s perceived strength, business, will turn out to be his greatest weakness,

      • williamjameson

        was anti-captialist ( from their silly perspective ) because Romney went after Newt as a consultant working with Fannie Mae, lobbyist r not it was anti-capitalist to attack a man for working in the free market.

        These Romneybots are self admitted PRO-MODERATE PROGRESSIVES pretending to be conservatives. Even worse they come in to trash talk members like a liberal would so its fair game to defend ourselves with smarter rebuttals.

  • crosley

    This whole argument of “Mitt Romney is going to look bad because some of the companies Bain invested in made layoffs” is beyond absurd. I thought we as conservatives understood that not every job is some sort of permanent entitlement. Are we going to get rattled by disgusting commercials of Post Office workers who’s jobs will likely be cut?

    The whole “corporate raider” schtick is more liberal fantasy from people who don’t understand the world of finance. These are voluntary, free market transactions that resulted in a net increase of jobs. All of this Gordan Gekko nonsense because Bain shut down some Union paper mill that cost 100 jobs? Are conservatives now Union shills? No one can dispute that Bain has created far more jobs than it has cut, Staples (created by Bain) alone has close to100,000 employees.

    Also, if I buy a company and decide to layoff employees so as to decrease my overhead in order to make my enterprise profitable (and not bankrupt), isn’t that my right in a free market economy?

    Just because you don’t like a certain candidate doesn’t mean you should trash the core of conservatism, which is economic freedom. It’s disgusting the depths some people will go over a single primary.

    • bonnman

      just don’t expect them to vote for you for President.

    • avgjo

      these are voluntary, free expression assertions that result in a net increase in political capital and perhaps polling status.

      Just because you don’t like a certain candidate doesn’t mean you should trash a core value of conservatism, the right to your political expression, no matter how stupid.

      I don’t actually believe this. HOWEVER, it strikes me as quite odd that many on our side who believe that when it comes to money, anything goes as long as its legal, don’t believe the same about politics. In the money argument, concerns for the welfare of the community are not supposed to play a role, since the point of a business is to turn a profit.

      But then, all of the sudden, moral concerns and welfare of the community play a role when it comes to politics. It is ‘wrong’ to play class warfare and it hurts the community by fostering wrong-headed ideas about free enterprise blah blah blah.

      But wait a minute!

      What they’re doing is not illegal, right? And the point of a political campaign is not to worry about what is right and what is wrong, right? It’s to win elections and gain power. So people playing class warfare or attacking Bain or whatever are just doing what they have to do to turn a profit. This is the attitude of the left, and it differs little from the attitude of many on the right toward money and profit.

      I think the problem stems from the assertion that the core of conservatism is economic freedom. It’s not. ‘conservatism’ in America, that is, the Founding principles, has as its core that any rights we have come from our Creator and that all men are created equally. From that, things like economic freedom directly flow. The idea that economic freedom is the core of American exceptionalism is a flawed, reductionistic one and this distortion is leading to the corruption and cultural rot we see everywhere in our country.

  • david1313

    about Mr. Romney’s business. I care that he has an allergy to the truth. Sure he did not watch the anti-Newt commericals, except he could quote them. Geez, give me a break.

  • unsk

    Mitt Romeny has been a rank opportunist throughout his political career, and what some of these commericals are showing (” I like firing people” ) is that it appears Mitt Romney was a rank opportunist throughout his business career as well. Mittens was in the leveraged buyout business which does not have to be an evil business, but it is a business that is ripe for heartless exploitation of vulnerable companies and individuals. The impression that Romney wanted to convey during some of these marketing conference appearances and advertisements was that he was heartless exploiter for profit. Not only was that probably unnecessary and even perhaps counterproductive , Romney did that anyway and no one forced him to do it.

    I am as free market a guy as you can get, but when a powerful fat cat like Romney exploits people, that guy should not expect there will be no repercussions, and that a some later date he won’t be called into account. But worse yet if for him to wrap himself in the free market flag when his whole political career has been as a anit-business Progressive. He is a hypocrite, plain and simple. Among his many progressive failings:

    ? He was against the Reagan, the Gingrich and Bush Tax cuts without any good reason. All the evidence has shown those cuts were good for the economy and he was against them.

    ? He has been consistently pro regulation. His former environmental advisors are all far left environmental wackos. During his stint as governor, while the rest of the country was in recovery, Massachuetts created only 45,000 jobs.

    ? He created his own socialist healthcare mandate.

    ? He nominated Liberal Left judges to the bench. Does anyone think that would help business?

    ? He is a huge Wall Street Crony and would allow the rampant TBTF fraud to continue and suck us dry.

    ? But the kicker is that he has come out for a VAT. A VAT would be a like limitless credit card for the Nanny State Spenders. Government would grow out of sight.

    As a small businessman I fear Romney as much as I fear Buraq. Romney could and probably would lead a Progressive/ Rino Coalition that would destroy what’s left of our free enterprise system. He is an Corporate Insider Crony who favored special favors for the powerful, but the back of government’s hand for small business.

    • OregonConservative

      He said “I like being able to fire people who provide services to me.”

      Here is the entire quote in context:

      ?I want people to be able to own their own insurance if they wish to. And to buy it for themselves and perhaps keep it the rest of their life and to choose among different policies offered from companies across the nation. I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means that if you don?t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me. You know, if someone doesn?t give me the good service I need I want to say ?You know, I?m going to go get someone else to provide that service to me.? So, that?s one thing I would change.?

      Romney is not saying that he likes to fire people, he is saying that he likes the OPTION (i.e., “I like being able”) to “get someone else to provide a service” if the earlier person does provide good service.

      I’m disappointed that Huntsman (and others) would use such a obvious misrepresentation of what Romney said in an effort to vilify an obviously conservative statement.

      • JSobieski

        Next thing you know, someone will call Romney “zany”

  • Risky

    There’s a good analysis from Francis of his record of a businessman and some of the claims maid for and against.

    Better listen to that than watch a bunch of ads.