He was not born into a royal family, but He left a royal impression on the world.
For 30 years, He learned the ways of the world without becoming of the world. He then changed the world for the better.
He led without a mandate. He taught without a script. His common sense parables filled people with promise and compassion, His words forever inspiring.
He never condemned what others believed – just sin, evil and corruption.
He helped the poor without one government program. He healed the sick without a government health care system. He feed the hungry without food stamps. And everywhere He went, it turned into a rally, attracting large crowds, and giving them hope, encouragement and inspiration.
For three years He was unemployed, and never collected an unemployment check. Nevertheless, he completed all the work He needed to get done. He didn’t travel by private jet. He walked and sailed, and sometimes traveled on a donkey.
But they made Him walk when He was arrested and taken to jail, and no, He was not read any Miranda Rights. He was arrested for just being who He was and doing nothing wrong. And when they tried Him in court, He never said a mumbling word.
He didn’t have a lawyer, nor did He care about who judged Him.
His judge was a higher power.
The liberal court found Him guilty of false offences and sentenced Him to death, all because He changed the hearts and minds of men with an army of 12.
His death reset the clock of time.
Never before and not since has there ever been such a perfect conservative.
For over 2,000 years the world has tried hard to erase the memory of the perfect conservative, and His principles of compassion, caring and common sense.
His followers are now millions and millions the world over, as those who resent Him have intensified their attacks on who He was and what His followers believe.
The attacks are disguised as political correctness, or a misunderstanding of the First Amendment to the Constitution. Separation of Church and State does not mean Separation of Church from State. The State cannot impose Church on the people, but the people can display and say as much Church in the public square as they desire.
Our Founders recognized that distinction, which helped to inspire the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the founding of this nation – The United States of America!
We must be the Defending Fathers and the defenders of the perfect conservative.
That’s why I proudly wish one and all a very Merry Christmas!
Erick Erickson
Jeff Emanuel
Steve Maley
Caleb Howe
This is disturbing.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:48AM EDT (link)God is not a conservative.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
What would be most disturbing is if modern day conservatives rejected Judeo-Christian values as do
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:17PM EDT (link)most modern day liberals and Democrats and I think that is the point being made. Surely if American conservatives stand for any thing today, it is to conserve those values and that heritage that informed and animated the Founders and so much of the good works of Americans from Day One on Plymouth Rock through today.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
I have no problem acknowledging that our nation was founded
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:36PM EDT (link)on Judeo-Christian principles. What I have a problem with is reducing God to a conservative. There’s enough people around here that think Republican=Christian. Diaries like this certainly don’t help.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
He is definitely not a liberal
jameshowell Monday, December 20th at 12:46PM EDT (link)God, namely, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, may not be a a republican, but is definitely not a liberal in the sense of the modern American liberal, and is diametrically opposed to the platform of the modern Democratic party.
He is neither...nt.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:00PM EDT (link)“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
Maybe I'm cynical...
writeblock Monday, December 20th at 1:40PM EDT (link)But Cain’s piece reeks of political opportunism more than piety.
Yep you must be right
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 2:31PM EDT (link)Cain has shown a drive to be in politics. He must be using this article to set up a presidential run.
Pretty heavy-handed...
writeblock Monday, December 20th at 9:01PM EDT (link)nt
The diary helps to concentrate the minds of actual Christians that are useful idiots for the Devil
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:38PM EDT (link)I have been a Christian since age 13. Was a Democrat from age 18-38, and one of the seminal moments in my Dem Party career was an incident in 1992, when I was chairman of the county party and was interrupted during a conversation with an old lady from my church by a party elder that suggested that we not speak of our faith or any socially conservative views lest we offend athiests and/or pro-choicers nearby.
I was a coward for 8 more years before I left that hostile to Christians party. Yet, even they will selectively quote Jesus for welfare increases.
My friend, I conducted a exercise here at Redstate years ago that challenged liberals to make a case for Jesus as a liberal today. They lost, because any liberal attribute they could assign to Christ was long ago incorporated into modern day conservatism and repudiated by modern day liberals.
Yes, some faux Christian libs will be offended. They aren’t voting for us anyway, and it is OK for us to take God’s side. And on all issues in the political arena, I can think of none on which the lib dems have done so.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
55555! nt
ColdWarrior (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:22PM EDT (link)CW
In 2012, will YOU become a “voting member” of the Republican Party in your precinct?
Where it all started. Twitter @kaltkrieger
Unified Patriots.
Learn how to GOTV at The Concord Project and at Procinct and
thx guy - those 5s made my day bro - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:39PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
This is a response to the false left-wing meme
Beaglescout (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:40PM EDT (link)…As most recently expressed by Stephen Colbert that Jesus would be a left-wing Democrat who believed in a socialist government.
Is God a conservative? He created humanity and wants us to live and thrive. He made us to be responsible for our actions and endowed us with our rights. His Natural Law was written into our minds so we understand it implicitly, without ever being instructed in it, and the more we study the Natural Law the more we can discover of it, working the same way as does study and discovery of the Physical Laws of the universe. God as the Creator of all is clearly not a conservative. He is the Creator. That is not conservative. God created us all, liberal and conservative.
But Jesus’ message, which is often twisted to justify socialist government, was very conservative. Individual rights and responsibilities are a bit piece of it, and this is something not favored by socialists. The parable of the talents shows us that capitalist stewards who increase wealth through investment are favored over lazy, envious stewards.
Jesus’ message was explicitly not political, but it was a pro-freedom message. If you don’t see that conservatism is the modern pro-freedom message, then you’re not paying attention.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
5555555555 - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:39PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
True. He is
The_Gadfly (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:40PM EDT (link)the conservative. He preserves His laws so that all can reason. And He wishes upon us Life and Blessings although He will also send forth Death and Curses if His ways are not heeded.
Many liberals are offended that His First commandment is religious not secular. It prevents them from hijacking His purposes. It is also where they most frequently run afoul of him. They replace Him with government, reason, or the will of man instead of giving Him the Honor and Glory which are his due.
You might not like it. You may find it disturbing. But in the end everyone shall bend their knees and acknowledge His sovereignty. The choice given to you is whether it is in Joy or Regret (with the concomitant wailing and gnashing of teeth).
You question my eternal status based on my comment?
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:58PM EDT (link)The comments so far are just making it worse.
God is neither conservative nor liberal. He is so far above anything created by man that any such attempt at comparison is misguided at best and blasphemous at worst.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
Judging your soul (whoever it was)
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 2:30PM EDT (link)crossed the line, but on the same token, you need to lighten up and stop trying to look so deep into a well written and well thought out piece.
While I would agree with you had he tried to tie Christ into a party, calling him the original conservative or a conservative is not an offensive line of thought. Christ’s own teachings are the pillars of conservative thought.
Self responsibility
Personal dedication to charity instead of relying on government entitlements,
Caring for those around you,
Respect for the people in charge
Working for what one gets,
etc etc etc.
Maybe your problem is you define conservatism with a party rather than conservatism being a way of life separate from politics. People need to stop with the PC crap. Contrary to many peoples way of thought, it is OK to recognize that Christ taught many of the same things we line up with conservatism. But at the same time, we have to recognize that Christ did not care one way or the other about politics, and we need to not try to make him a party mascot.
Christ was perfection, but he was a conservative and a perfect one at that.
Agreed.
littlehouse18 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:23PM EDT (link)He spoke of our individual relationship with Him. For instance, entitlements from an impersonal government rob us of at least a portion of the means to give of our own hearts and convictions. It also robs the recipient of the interaction with a human giver, and ultimately to experience a gift from God’s grace, and the heartfelt gratitude that engenders. Checks from The Government merely create dependency, entitlement, and resentment, and deprive the soul.
He is at least definitely *not* Liberal in today’s definition. How could He countenance a philosophy which is so “anti” Christ and more generally anti-God? One which mocks and seeks to eradicate Him, to keep His children from ever knowing Him. One whose proponents endorse an agenda so opposite His teachings, and even advocates destroying the innocents He has formed in the womb. So their acts of hindering His children is surely in His purview, however small our human doings. When we oppose these things I feel confident that we are siding with the Lord. Certainly “God is not mocked”, and those people will reap what they’ve sown.
I don't have a "PC" bone in body.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 8:41PM EDT (link)The more I think about this the more I’m sure it’s blasphemous. Reducing God to a man-made definition is that and more.
And I don’t identify my conservatism with a party. I happen to support the Republican party right now because it’s better than any other alternatives. This has nothing to do with my view or connections to conservatism or party. This is flat out wrong. Sure, there are quite a few Christians that will like this message, but I’m not one of them. I think the message is wrong, and if this is where he’s going he’ll be about as successful politically as Alan Keyes.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
Pope Benedict himself
Scope (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:13PM EDT (link)has written much on welcoming illegal immigration. It seems that he believes that the US is “rich” and that we must take care of all God’s children. He didn’t stop at personal charity, he included government redistributive charity as well. Look it up. It’s there for all to see. This country is “broke” from redistributive wealth transfers. This US has given more in global charity than any other country, yet the Pope still believes that we should give more, and, accept more than we can possibly finance. How is that “conservative”? Break the back of one country because other countries won’t do it? At one time the Pope was also for the Global Warming initiatives. That’s true. Look it up. He talked about it in his writings. I realize that that is only one interpretation of the Christian faith, but, it all is redistributive. Look it up.
Jesus was for every living human being, but, he was not a politician, and, he never subscribed to any political position, period. There are many Liberals that say they believe in God, and, I’m sure they do, in their own way. God was not political, period.
He did say:
gekster (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:23PM EDT (link)Give unto Ceaser what is Ceasers, and Give unto God what is gods.
As close as I can get without looking it up.
As for the Global Warming, here ya go.
One of many.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/27/catholicism.religion
They say Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for the poor.
If they need more voters,
then they have to make more of who they are for.
We are there in the various Tea Party groups, leaderless, but not rudderless.
We steer always toward the Constitutional principles this nation was founded upon.
Erick Brockway
I’ve gone from
“Hope and Change” to
“Hopeless and Changeless”
I agree Night Twister
Scope (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:22PM EDT (link)There are Democrats and probably even Liberals that believe deeply in God. I’m sure Mr. Cain didn’t mean to be offensive, but, maybe he should have thought better of writing this.
Agreed, NT
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:50PM EDT (link)Conservatism, liberalism, and everything in between is a political philosophy that was invented by man in the interest of bettering his government. Nothing wrong with that, but there is something incredibly wrong with making God subordinate to political philosophy (which this piece unintentionally does).
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
If you start from a Christian bibliological view point,
The_Gadfly (Diary) Wednesday, December 22nd at 4:52AM EDT (link)what I stated are facts and not meant as judgment. The “you” was intended as the non-specific you. I assumed that anyone secure in their faith would look at the last line and be secure in knowing that having chosen Life and the Blessings concomitant with it, that they would be on the Joy side of the option.
Doesn't bother me at all...
itrytobenice (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:03PM EDT (link)Though I know for a fact he’s more interested in our personal lives and our eternal lives than the rulers of any country, I also know that he’s not neutral between the party of death and the party of life.
Proper grammar saves lives.
Let’s eat Grandma.
Let’s eat, Grandma.
NightTwister, I'm with you 100 percent
kestrel (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:06PM EDT (link)Abraham Lincoln wouldn’t have dared to make such a claim. People in both the North and South said God was “on their side” and they backed their positions with Bible verses. When asked his opinion, Lincoln said he would not presume to know which “side” God was on, but he only hoped that he and the union were on God’s side.
Jesus was Liberal...
manfred (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:41PM EDT (link)Liberal in his love, moderate in his actions, and conservative in his beliefs.
Not sure who the above quote is attributed to but I really like it.
[img]http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs023.snc1/3087_67179958349_510843349_1545529_4111206_s.jpg[img]
555555!!
minister_of_war Monday, December 20th at 9:03PM EDT (link)I like.
Great quote, Manfred...
traversecityconservative (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:50PM EDT (link)You boiled this whole discussion down to one sentence that says it all.
In response to all the unbelievers above:
mxmediamom Tuesday, October 18th at 8:07PM EDT (link)Dear poor pitifuls, sorry you don’t understand but if you were to actually READ what God says, you would indeed understand that God is the ORIGINAL conservative! Why are you here- just to stir up trouble?
Can’t stand those nefarious liberal tactics. You just prove what Mr. Cain says about those who resent Him intensifying their attacks on His people.
Please, Jesus was not a conservative, nor a liberal.
Cheetah772 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:55PM EDT (link)He did not come here to set up a political kingdom or lay out his political beliefs. He came here to die for all of us, that our sins are taken away, so that we can call on His name to save us from everlasting punishment in Hell (1 John 2:1-2).
Jesus lived the perfect life. He lived a sinless life. His resurrection vindicated His deity and sinless life. The fifth chapter of Romans Epistle speaks of the necessity of Christ’s death. Even Jesus was quoted as to the real reason He was here — to seek that is lost, to save sinners.
By the way, the court that condemned Jesus to death was not a liberal court. In fact, it’s quite contrary, as it was made up of some of the most conservative Jewish religious leaders. To be sure, Sadducees did make up a part of Sanhedrin, and they were “liberal” in their religious beliefs.
Having said all of that, it is true that there are some principles in the Bible that are quite close to conservative beliefs, however, it is not intended to be a political guidebook. That was not the main reason; the Bible was written with one central theme — the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the special revelation of God to instruct us how we might be saved, and what to do after saved in Christ, and anticipate the Second Coming of Christ.
Let’s not reduce our Lord God to a set of political beliefs that we think God might be partial to. Please, let’s not do that. Okay?
Daniel 2:20 And he [God] changeth the times and seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding.
I agree.
Tbone (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:05PM EDT (link)As a Christian and a conservative, I find my conservative views to align more closely with my faith but I would never co-opt Christ to justify a political position.
Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.
5 nt
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:52PM EDT (link)“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Great quote!
bigiron Monday, December 20th at 7:43PM EDT (link)Brings back old memories … been a while since I’ve read Heinlein.
Amen! 55555555
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:29PM EDT (link)nt
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
Yes, but
littlehouse18 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:53PM EDT (link)I believe you are conflating different concepts of conservatism. The Jewish leaders were about conserving their status quo of religious practice, their power, and how people *should* live and worship.
I don’t think it works to try to relate religious outlooks from 2000 years ago with modern political categories.
We do not define ourselves as merely conserving the status quo for the sake of the status quo, for our own power, etc. We are espousing principles for the greatest amount of human freedom, to protect us from domination by others, to protect freedom to worship as we choose or not. The ways in which you use the word ‘liberal’ vs ‘conservative’ above might even label us as ‘liberal’ .
It’s tempting to be ‘above it all’ and say that God is completely outside politics, though I understand the sentiment. But politics is having a direct impact on our daily lives, and I think He cares about that. The Founders were not afraid to make this claim.
Being semantical, Jesus was "middle-of-the-road."
SoFiMil (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:37PM EDT (link)Anything more or less than God’s way is not of Him. A word of warning is in order, however. In spiritual matters, the middle-of-the-road approach is anything but the path of least resistance.
www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
Mr. Cain seems to be saying
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 12:59PM EDT (link)that Jesus is the ideal for us as conservatives. He nicely demonstrates that our values are really His.
Thanks for this, sir.
If you are reading this, I am curious,
would you be for reinstating the sodomy laws of the UCMJ if Liebermann succeeds in getting that repealed later this week? This weakens the moral fabric of our society, as it mainstreams the homo-fascist agenda.
Thank you.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
Shouldn't He also be
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 3:53PM EDT (link)the ideal for Christian liberals, socialists, monarchists, etc, regardless of their flawed political beliefs?
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Yes, Christ came for all people regardless of
runner12 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:01PM EDT (link)their political beliefs. However, many people who espouse liberal politcial philosophies are within churches who have watered down Christianity to a series of moral truths and/or a philosophy. They have largely diminished the traditional Christian view of the personhood of Christ and created Him in an image that fits their world view.
So while He is the ideal for all mankind, it is the ideal set forth in the Bible, not by those who would co-opt His statements and twist them to fit their own agenda.
Sure
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:23PM EDT (link)That’s different from saying that Jesus emphatically *is* a conservative. I guarantee you that the political beliefs of the Apostles, Paul, St Augustine, Mother Teresa, and several other Heroes of the Faith wouldn’t have been close to conservatism. Who are we to implicitly question or regard as lesser the Christianity of those people (which we do by equivocating Christianity and conservatism)?
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Well,the good thing about Christianity is that which
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:29PM EDT (link)irks so many people about it: it deals with right and wrong AS APPLIED TO SPECIFIC ISSUES. So, it is actually easy to judge the political philosophies of people who claim to be Christians as in line with Biblical doctrine or out of it.
Problem is, so many people now neglect specifics in the Bible, either because of laziness or convenience or some other vice, that even many Christians are unaware of this.
‘By their fruits ye shall know them.’
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
No, it isn't
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:45PM EDT (link)“it is actually easy to judge the political philosophies of people who claim to be Christians as in line with Biblical doctrine or out of it”
Christianity is about the personal actions of believers, not the corporate actions of a polity. Otherwise, you better be prepared to explain how conservatives who support the First Amendment’s protection of blasphemy aren’t living in sin.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
It's not actually that hard.
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 6:39PM EDT (link)Supporting such protection is merely a reflection of God’s giving man free will. Free will is a key element of the Christian concept of man; he is a free moral agent. To deny such a protection would be to deny free will of individuals, something which is clearly not allowed, if one reads the Bible and looks at Jesus’ example. All those brutes in centuries past who persecuted people for not believing, and did so in the name of Christ, were doing it in direct opposition to the example He left for us.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
But if free will is paramount...
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 7:19PM EDT (link)then does that mean that we should allow free will to take precedence when it comes to drug use, lifestyle choice, and other such potentially sinful behaviors? I would argue that it does, but many conservatives would argue just the opposite. See what I mean about it not being easy? If it were easy, people of good faith wouldn’t come to such divergent opinions on the matter. The Bible’s pretty clear on what is immoral and what is not for people, but that moral structure does not necessarily lend itself to law (and judging purely by the Torah, any attempt to compel moral behaviors as prescribed in the Bible would lead to Islam-like tyranny).
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Well, i'm not saying it's paramount.
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:07PM EDT (link)(And obviously, this is just this layman’s understanding of very deep concepts). All I was trying to say was that the 1st amendment’s protection of blasphemy and a Christian’s defending of that protection is not a sin, as I understand it.
As far as the lifestyle choices and behaviors you mentioned…
Yes, those are choices.
I am a proponent, for instance, of drug laws being handed to the states. If a state wants to legalize them all, let them deal with the consequences.
As far as Christians promoting this law or wanting that practice abolished…
I would personally argue that they should do so as far as is compatible with (a) God’s law and (b) the Constitution.
For instance, DADT. You know, I think, from my posts, that I was against the repeal of it. The military is not the place for social experiments because of the stakes involved. That said, I think that DADT was a good balance because it allowed folks who happened to be homosexual and wanted to serve their country to do so in peace, but in a way that not distracting. These sort of compromises are practical, decent and respect free will, while providing the sort of restraint that good government must provide to keep social order. (By good government, the one that governs least.)
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
sorry, not paramount, but very ,very important. nt
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:08PM EDT (link)Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
sorry, not paramount, but very ,very important. nt
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:08PM EDT (link)Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
I understand that view
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:40PM EDT (link)(Don’t entirely agree with it, but I understand it.) My point is that it’s harder than it first seems to translate clear Biblical principles directed at believers (don’t blaspheme, don’t engage in sexual impurity, etc) into principles for what government should and should not regulate. The Bible leaves us with little regarding ideal government, and for that reason I think we should pause when someone says that God is part of political movement X: there lies madness.
I do think that there are certain government actions — mass murder, for starters — that God by definition cannot support, and that those ideologies that agitate for government to do those things are anti-Biblical, but that’s another discussion. Good discussion.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Well, one last thing, aesthete.
avgjo (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:21AM EDT (link)I remember one of the classes I took, we read a book that collected some of Aquinas’ ideas on politics. We had spent most of the semester on Aristotle and Plato, so we didn’t get to do an in-depth study. But the professor was very well versed in that material, and I remember that the gist of that part of the class was that Aquinas recognized that government cannot control what someone thinks/is in his heart and that all government can do is be conducive to an environment where people can live in safety and peace. (Our professor had emphasized that to Aquinas as a Christian, preserving human life was among the greatest social responsibilities; that’s why Aquinas strongly advised against revolutions/assassinations, because of the great loss of life likely to follow.)
This is an interesting yet deep area of discussion we’re engaging in on this thread. Humans are rational creatures, and yet they are spiritual. How one sees the nature of this spirituality determines (I believe) the way one approaches the topic at hand. I personally believe the human is a free moral agent, possessed of a God-given rational soul and from that soul the human has noesis. I think perhaps it is fair to say that, for me, when a Christian lives in a free society, where he has a duty to take a hand in the formation of laws, there are certain hard-and-fast principles he must incorporate into his contribution, such as the preservation of innocent life. Others, he must rely on first principles from the Bible, applying both his rational capabilities (what is often called ‘logic’) and his noetic understanding of the topic at hand, such as the DADT perspective I mentioned above.
Thanks as always for the discussion; it was interesting and vigorous yet civil.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
Hmmmm......aesthete, I think it is difficult
runner12 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:06PM EDT (link)for us to state which political philosphy St. Augustine, Paul, & the Apostles would adhere to given that a system of government like ours did not exist at the time. The only things we have to go by is what is stated in the Torah and the Christian NT. Given what is stated there, it is more likely that most would have identified more with social conservatism rather than the Liberal/Progressive movement when looked at on a case by case basis.
That being said, I am uncomfortable when people attempt to politicize Christ. I do not know Mr. Cain’s heart, so it is impossible for me to say that this was his goal. For now, I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The Christian NT says almost nothing that relates to government
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:28PM EDT (link)The statement of rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s is the only NT verse that relates in any way to government of non-Christians (Caesar wasn’t a Christian). The NT also contains an instruction for Christians to solve problems amongst themselves.
The NT puts no emphasis on government whatsoever and surprisingly little emphasis on personal morality rules. The transcendance of believing in Christ as a Savior who sacrificed himself for your sins is based not on personal morality, but a transcendant faith.
The NT just doesn’t say much about government.
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
I never said it related to government in any
runner12 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:48PM EDT (link)way.In fact, I clearly seperated political philosophy and social/moral issues. My point was to say that in general the Christianity espoused in the Bible is more closely related to socially conservative beliefs on social/moral issues. That is all.
You are incorrect that the NT does not deal with social/moral issues and personal morality. The NT is not just comprised of the Gospels, but of Acts, Romans, etc. In which great detail is given regarding social and moral issues in many different portions of society. Granted, it is not discussed in relation to government, but rather how Christians should conduct themselves.
Fair enough, but focusing even more narrowly of Christ as the perfect conservative
JSobieski (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 12:44AM EDT (link)The Gospels as you acknowledge do not focus on personal morality in the traditional way.
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
I am having trouble understanding where
runner12 (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 12:51PM EDT (link)exactly we are disagreeing here. I am in no way equating Christ to a particular political bend. Again, all I am saying that the social/moral viewpoint of social conservatives is in line with the teachings of Christ and the Bible more than liberals/Progressives.
Actually, as I begin to think about it I am amending my previous comments. The Gospels do speak quite often of personal morality, but not a government system. I am not going to quote chaper and verse because a.) it would take too long b). this is not the appropriate site to do so. But I encourage you not to take my word for it, but to look it up yourself.
Christ was interested in individual salvation
renny (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:00PM EDT (link)and not mass political movement.
He said render unto Caesar and not join some political party and start na Const. Congress.
As for what kind of car he would’ve driven, he would have ridden a donkey or walked.
Exactly
Goldwater_Conservative (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:33PM EDT (link)both the right and left get of base when they try and read into this anymore than what is there. True Jesus did give to the poor and always tried to help the downtrodden, but he never did this through any form of government he did it on his own free will.
On the flip side, we forget that God has His own form of government with the children of Israel and it was basically a theorcacy through the Prophets that He sent to them. Not exactly a democracy, but then again that was not His point, he was trying to show everyone His ways and not lay the blueprint for a perfect utopian government.
Work and give.
4life (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:02PM EDT (link)The Bible teaches us to work, take care of our own, and give. The Bible does not teach us to expect government to take from the wealthy and give to the poor. Calling Jesus the ultimate socialist is a perversion of His life and teaching, and of the message of the Bible as a whole. Work and give. Give, because we are only stewards on earth of what God ultimately owns and entrusts to us. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and we manage it according to our ability. Those unable to work and take care of themselves should be cared for by those who are able. Those who can work, but choose not to are not to be cared for. They are to suffer from their laziness. “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10 Now how is that socialist?
I must admit...
IronDioPriest (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:03PM EDT (link)… The name Herman Cain has not been beyond the periphery if my awareness until recently. I really, really like what the man has to say, his delivery, his demeanor, and his vision.
I saw that he won the RedState poll, which frankly surprised the heck out of me based purely on my perception of Herman’s visibility compared to that of other potential candidates. Someone posted a couple excellent YouTube videos of Herman at my forum. But in that thread on my forum, I’ve seen it asked – Herman’s nice presentation in the videos notwithstanding – whether this is the guy we want. I haven’t been able to begin forming an opinion on the information I’ve gleaned by osmosis until now. This essay by Herman gives me the first inkling of whether or not I believe Herman Cain to be Presidential material. And I’m sorry to say, I now have my doubts.
Running for the Presidency cannot happen successfully without an astute sense of messaging acumen. While I love Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and I believe deeply that without a return to Judeo-Christian values we will most certainly decline, I also become very suspicious when people use God or Jesus Christ to score political points.
Talk about dividing the electorate right out of the gate!!! Conservatives need to find a messenger who will be able to articulate the case for conservatism in ways that will garner not only the votes of conservatives, as well as persuade independent/non-ideological/uneducated/centrist voters and disgruntled Democrats that conservatism holds their interest.
I happen to agree with Herman that Jesus was the quintessential conservative. But he throws down a gauntlet here that simply doesn’t need to be thrown IF he intends on running for President. This doesn’t just divide the Left and Right. It divides the conservative end of the spectrum as well.
I think what Herman has given us is a glimpse at poor political judgment, plain and simple. There’s a reason he lost the primary to Johnny Isakson.
“If we finally fail in this great and glorious contest, it will be by bewildering ourselves in groping for the middle way.”
-John Adams, 1776
Join in the conservative forum discussion at “It’s About Liberty”: http://www.itsaboutliberty.com
"Running for the Presidency cannot happen successfully without an astute sense of messaging acumen."
ColdWarrior (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 1:58PM EDT (link)If the election of Barack Obama tells us anything, it’s that ANYBODY could have been elected president in 2008. I don’t have to chronicle here all of the gaffes, misstatements, foibles, etc. he and Slow Joe entertained us with to prove the point that in 2008, just about anybody, with the help of the Democrat Media, could have beaten John McCain. Yet Opuppet only got 53 per cent votes of the 65 per cent of the registered voters who bothered to vote.
John Adams also said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
Perhaps Herman Cain’s Diary is an attempt to gauge the state of the American people in the context of Adams’ observation. Mr. Cain has not yet announced he is running, preferring to state that he is giving the idea “prayerful consideration.”
Rather than this being an example of poor political judgment on Mr. Cain’s part, perhaps what he is doing is simply attempting to determine in advance whether the electorate is, now, at this point in our history, the kind of “moral and religious people” that would accept a candidate such as himself.
I have had the pleasure of speaking with him one-on-one and I am impressed — I believe he could run a successful campaign for the presidency and I’ve told him what he needs to do to guarantee a win.
You said that there’s a reason Mr. Cain lost the primary to Johnny Isakson. Could you tell us what that was?
Thank you.
For Liberty,
ColdWarrior
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Thank you, ColdWarrior
cari Monday, December 20th at 2:47PM EDT (link)I agree. It’s refreshing to hear some who is prayerfully considering a run for the presidency say exactly what he thinks and lets us know exactly who he is. What a stark contrast to the smoke and mirrors and deception of the Obama campaign!
I remember when George W. Bush was running in 2000. He told, I think it was Barbara Walters, that his role model was Jesus Christ. That kind of spiritual boldness and honesty didn’t seem to hurt him a bit. Some may call it trying to score political points, but I think it takes courage to speak out for Jesus. It will always turn some people off, so those who risk it, in my experience, are usually sincere.
I’ve been carefully watching Cain since his February RSLC speech, and after this post, I’m MORE inclined to think he would make an excellent president. There’s still more I would like to know about him, but right now, I really like what I see and hear.
My statement re; Cain v Isakson was a broad one...
IronDioPriest (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 3:03AM EDT (link)… meaning that his campaign lost to Isakson’s campaign. He lost, and there must be a reason. I now have a clue that he does not have a keen sense of what and when to say and not say things.
Look, I like authenticity, and I like Christian politicians to be up front about their faith. But to come out with a “Jesus was a conservative” essay during the run-up to a Presidential run seems to me to be… clumsy.
That’s all. Not wrong, or cynically using Christ as a political weapon – although I DO get some of that vibe here. Mostly just clumsy, and unnecessary.
“If we finally fail in this great and glorious contest, it will be by bewildering ourselves in groping for the middle way.”
-John Adams, 1776
Join in the conservative forum discussion at “It’s About Liberty”: http://www.itsaboutliberty.com
My thoughts too. (nt)
littlehouse18 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:58PM EDT (link)Double Standard of Left
chihank Monday, December 20th at 1:21PM EDT (link)When conservatives rally against abortion, liberals shout. “Separate of Church & State!”
However, when liberals promote ObamaCare, unemployment benefits, and raising taxes, the Left sure elikes to invole the name of Jesus.
I think some these responses are due to the polling piece
Change Jar Conservative (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 4:11PM EDT (link)and Cain pushing people here via twitter and facebook which is Rondulan like behaviour.
I like Herman as a talk show host, but he would be very far down my list of people to elect as President due to a lack of experience and unlike when Lincoln was elected, there is a need for experience these days in the Presidency.
********
Formerly know as “Oz” in these parts
There's no defense
jb13 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 4:34PM EDT (link)for a piece like this, if you really believe what Jesus said.
His words have inspired great philosophers, but He was not a philosopher.
If we follow His teachings, we will all be better people, but He was not just a teacher.
The world would like to reduce Him to these titles, but Jesus was so much more. His own words say so. He said “I AM the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” He claimed to be the Son of God.
If you believe that, then to attempt to subjugate Him to a political philosophy on the Left or Right – to attempt to claim that Jesus Christ was either a liberal or a conservative – is disrespectful, at best, blasphemous, at worst, and displays a lack of understanding of what Jesus really came to Earth to accomplish. He did not come to perfect our political institutions, or to teach us how to be better people. Those are side affects. He came to change human hearts, to draw them into a right relationship with Almighty God.
Are there political beliefs that more closely align with a proper interpretation of Scripture? Yes, undoubtedly. God spends much time in the Scriptures addressing many concepts central to politics, including how to handle money, how to treat fellow human beings, to cherish freedom and liberty, to respect human life, to punish evildoers via the auspices of the state, etc.
But human institutions are only strengthened when they align with those principles taught in Scripture and espoused by Christ. They are weakened when they attempt to appropriate to their philosophies the endorsement of the Living God.
Given that much (but not all) of the differences between conservativism and liberalism involve government as the actor
JSobieski (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:32PM EDT (link)and given the NT’s relative silence on the issue of government, what government should do, etc. I find it difficult to conclude that the NT is conservative or liberal, and as a result, I find it difficult to conclude that Jesus Christ accurately fits into any political paradign since he spoke remarkably little about government even though his nation was subjugated under a foreign power.
Government is a unique actor in society because of the power of compulsion.
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
C.S. Lewis and others said something similar to this.
SoFiMil (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:41PM EDT (link)“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
- C.S. Lewis
www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
One more by C.S. Lewis
SoFiMil (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:58PM EDT (link)The below has had a major influence on me.
All extremes except extreme devotion to [God] are to be encouraged. …Whichever [cause] (a person) adopts, your main task will be the same. Let him begin by treating [the cause] as a part of his religion. Then let him, under the influence of partisan spirit, come to regard it as the most important part. Then quietly and gradually nurse him on to the stage at which the religion becomes merely part of the “Cause,” in which Christianity is valued chiefly because of the excellent arguments it can produce in favour of the [cause.] …Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours…
-The Screwtape Letters, Letter VII
www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
God defines conservativism, Mr Cain is right.
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 4:38PM EDT (link)Once upon a time He defined what it is to be American. That’s the sadness of it, isn’t it?
Mr Cain, my personal congratulations for tweaking a lot of little noses here that need tweaking. Happy Christmas, and many Blessings on your House.
Since I know you write your own stuff, simply great. This isn’t the season of Festivus, This is the Season of Christ. Let the hair-splitters bring their complaints up around President’s Day. This is OUR holy-day.
VB
I'm also a Christian, and I opposed to this.
NightTwister (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 8:44PM EDT (link)I don’t know about this being “our holiday”, but it is a time when the awareness of Christ is heightened, and that’s a good thing.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
Ditto nt
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 8:56PM EDT (link)“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Huh?
runner12 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:12PM EDT (link)While the season of Christmas is more than likely not the actual time of the year when Christ was born, it is recognized the world over as a holy time for Christians. To say that Christmas is not a historically (and currently) a Christian holiday is not accurate. In every sense, it is “our” holiday as Christians. Feel free to expound upon your meaning of it not being so, but I would have to disagree with you.
I realize the significance of the holiday to many Christians.
NightTwister (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:09AM EDT (link)There are, however, some Christians (like me) that don’t celebrate the holiday in the same way. I’m not going to turn this comment thread into a theological discussion, so I’m just going to leave it at that.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
No need to.
runner12 (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 1:02PM EDT (link)Thanks for the clarification.
I understand...
Vassar Bushmills (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 8:26AM EDT (link)….but Herman raises a very good point to which I think I’ll develop later, after New Year, and that is that the bedrock of conservatism isn’t a bunch of planks about small government and low taxes, but rather a list of philosophical notions, beginning with “Love thy Neighbor.” Modern conservatism is built from these planks. As modern liberalism has developed, it has become decidedly anti-these philosophical planks, (which Herman enunciated pretty well) while all conservativism is build upon them…a “House built on rock” sort of thing.
And yes, Christmas is a peculiarly Christian celebration, which we all invite others to celebrate with us. It is “our” day, our season. Enjoy
Well spoken, President Cain...
grumpy_old_soldier (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:29PM EDT (link)“A Merry Christmas to all, and to all, a good night!”
God names himself.
rogershru2 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:45PM EDT (link)He has revealed many of them to us. He has told us many of his attributes. But we should not take names or attributes that we have created to describe a philosophy (however true) or group or movement (however right) and use them to define God.
I have a problem with Him being called a Puritan or a Calvinist though I agree with much of those philosophies. I have a problem with Him being called Baptist though I believe that is the correct theological system. That’s why I’m uncomfortable with calling Jesus a Conservative, even though many conservative principles are directly derived from His revelation in the Bible and his moral laws found in nature.
“We used to have the best infrastructure in the world here in America. We’re the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad …” – President Obama
Principles
jerseypaul Monday, December 20th at 5:49PM EDT (link)Let us not confuse Judeo-Christian principles with being Jewish or Christian. Does one need to be Christian to “love thy neighbor” or can others get in on that?
The real danger is when religious beliefs enter into political discourse. That’s when we get crusades, inquisitions and jihad. How many have died in the name of God? Do religions that reject non-believers as not being “saved” like Christianity and Islam, interfere with rationale political discourse?
I, for one, embrace the principles, but believe the discussion of divinity as inappropriate for politics. One can reject divinity but still live a divine life.
I am curious, what do you think of the remarks made by
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 6:59PM EDT (link)various Founders on the subject? Many of those men, whose wisdom, in my humble opinion, surpasses that of most of today’s people, seemed not to think of ‘the discussion of divinity as inappropriate for politics’. Indeed, if we look back to the practice of early politics, we had state constitutions which required a religious orientation of X or an oath affirming Y religious idea, as well as church services in the White House (paid for by tax dollars, if memory serves) and all kinds of public statements of faith, the importance of religion to our society, etc.
(As we are not face-to-face and you cannot hear my tone or see my demeanour, my words could be taken in the wrong way. Please understand that this is an honest question, not loaded. Thanks.)
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
I am clearly not an expert on the Founders
jerseypaul Monday, December 20th at 8:47PM EDT (link)nor an expert on religion, but it seems to me the Founders implemented my philosophy of keeping religion separate from policy.
Although they were, for the most part, deeply religious men, and intoned God as the source of human rights, they were careful to leave God out of the implementation for those rights.
Having seen what a state religion can do to harm policy making, they explicitly ensured no state religion for the fledgling country.
They also understood how the concentration of power could and would undermine liberty, they devised a scheme that would attempt to prevent such a concentration of power. Organized religion can easily be a conduit for concentration of power.
Faith (as in faith in the goodness of others), Hope and Charity need not stem from the belief in a divine power although they are indeed basic to both Judaism and Christianity. Just consider how much better it would be if nobody felt it necessary to defend their particular view of how to be saved. On the other hand, millions have also died at the hands of secular despots who also believed they knew best how to organize society.
So I don’t know, maybe we’re damned if we do or damned if we don’t. Clearly if you have the view that there is more than “life sucks, then you die”, then it’s easier to maintain a civil society.
Wow, this is way above my pay grade.
Franklin: God governs the affairs of man
texasgalt (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:14PM EDT (link)June 28, 1787
Dr. Franklin’s Motion for Prayers in the Convention.
Many more have died in the name of athiesm.
4life (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:28PM EDT (link)In fact, the tally isn’t even in the same league. Fear athiesm in political discourse above all.
Any ideology...
Frederick (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:35PM EDT (link)…taken to an extreme, can be dangerous. Some more than others, some more easily than others. Aetheism is no exception, nor is Christianity, Islam nor even Bhuddism.
One can follow an ideology to its logical extreme and reach this point, or one can pick and choose the things that they like and create an a-la-carte extremist ideology. However one arrives, and through whichever ideological position, the result is always the same: Mass bloodshed by idiots too stupid to think for themselves and ask, “What the Hell am I doing?”
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
Christianity isn't an ideology
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:46PM EDT (link)and its logical extreme leads to love of others, not danger.
Ideas should be evaluated on their merit, not how extreme they are.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Many Americans will doubtless agree with you, Mr. Cain
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 5:52PM EDT (link)since the tone of your thoughts nicely echoes those of Rev. James Allan Francis’ 1926 sermon which has since been anonymously reworked into the beloved and ubiquitous “One Solitary Life”:
Far fewer, however, may be likely to recognize your characterization of the person and work of Jesus Christ as having far deeper roots in early Protestant liberalism than in the Scriptures.
The liberal churches of the mid-19th century, having tired of defending their lost belief in the divinity of Christ, began experiment with ways to make “the real Jesus” be an idealized version of “someone just like us” rather than the incarnated 2nd person of the Trinity. Their early products included a Jesus who was the embodiment of civic morality, one who maintained burnished rows of steel along the Union lines, and one who was willing to take a lesson or two from Mr. Marx. Over time, however, some theologically conservative Christians wanted to get in on the fun as well; grievous hilarity could ensue when opposing Jesuses occasionally met at midfield, as the teetotalling and the home-brewing, or the hippies’ hope and the dispenser of lawn order.
Missing, of course, in all of this, including your own inspiring piece, is any substantially correct reference to Jesus’ role in redemptive history.
You state: He led without a mandate. But you are contradicted by the most widespread Protestant confessions:
You state: He taught without a script.Not only manifestly untrue, but ironically so: every word out of the Lord Jesus’ mouth was rooted in the Scriptures which, according to his own testimony, speak of him.
You state: His common sense parables filled people with promise and compassion. This is certainly the liberal interpretation of the parables–as akin to Aesop and Ben Franklin–but it does not square with the reality that they caused division and anger, and, again from Jesus’ own testimony, were not “common” at all but rather divine revelations intended to confute: “for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’”
You state: He never condemned what others believed–just sin, evil and corruption. You have perhaps unknowingly demonstrated one of the hallmarks of Protestant liberalism: its externalization of sin into structures rather than persons. Certain remarks concerning snakes, broods of vipers, blind guides, an adulterous and wicked generation, and “you, being evil” come to mind for rebuttal.
You state: everywhere He went, it turned into a rally, attracting large crowds, and giving them … inspiration. Not necessarily so; by the end of the “rally” that had begun with the feeding of the 5,000, many deserted Jesus due to his “hard sayings”, until there were only 12 left–”and one of you is a devil!”
You state: The liberal court found Him guilty of false offences and sentenced him to death, all because He changed the hearts and minds of men. Spending a little more time in the gospels or under sound exegetical preaching is advisable. The court was egregiously conservative. The death sentence had nothing to do with changed hearts and minds–as highly rated as those entities are in both narcissitic evangelicalism and liberalism–but rather because Jesus had, in the court’s eyes, uttered blasphemy both throughout his public ministry and at its close, by claiming to be God.
That implications of that last fact, curiously, is notably absent from your piece, Mr. Cain. We seem to have read about remarkably different Jesuses. I’m afraid I will need to leave you with the one you found who is just like you in so many ways, and remain rather with the one who does not need us to be his defenders.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
I was with you till the last point.
littlehouse18 (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 6:08PM EDT (link)I can’t subscribe to the court being ‘conservative.’ American conservatives would have staunchly defended Jesus’ right to say anything He wanted. Unlike today’s liberals, who would like to figuratively put to death anyone who threatened their statist religion.
An exact transfer of the terms across 2,000 years is impossible
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 6:40PM EDT (link)… especially when the contemporary usage of political liberalism and conservatism are set in the context of a constitutional republic and Israel’s was in the waning days of what was originally, and was hoped to be returned to, a God-ordained theocracy. In general terms, however, the Pharisees had more in common with American conservatives–a high view of maintaining and enforcing both public and personal policy in reference to founding documents, a resistance to foreign influence–than liberals, whose counterpart in many ways was the Sadduccees–willing to compromise with Greece and Rome. willing to overthrow the ancient code.
My point was that the Sanhedrin had a greater representation of Pharisees than Sadducees at that time. That they did not act along conservative lines is easily seen, but that is more a commentary on human nature–however well-principled–coming into close proximity with God* than an indicator that they were liberal in any sense.
* Herein lies a warning to all … of us.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
One other thought, littlehouse18
CincoSolas_del_Bronx (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 8:02PM EDT (link)To say, as you did, that “American conservatives would have staunchly defended Jesus’ right to say anything he wanted” on that darkest of nights is not only contraindicated by the consistent misrepresentations and misapplications of Jesus’ own words by many, even on such a solidly conservative site as this, but also bears measuring against the actual words and behavior by Peter on that same night.
Those dreading urbanization should remember that though the Kingdom of God first appeared in a temporal Garden, at the end of the book it is established in an eternal City. (paraphrase, James M. Boice)
soli Deo gloria
Sorry, I didn't mean to
littlehouse18 (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 12:25AM EDT (link)place today’s conservatives in that specific circumstance, or suggest they would have done better than Peter in his place. I simply meant that our principles in their application are of a different sort from those of the Pharisees.
I think this debate is entwining a theoretical ( for lack of a better word) definition of conservatism with the principles that a conservative person might espouse in a given time and place, and the two don’t mix all that well. Some might describe Islamists as conservatives, but surely no rational person would consider them akin to American conservatives. Note I say *rational*; plenty of lefties would try to make such a slanderous connection.
Perhaps the term "statist"
Frederick (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 10:44PM EDT (link)…rather than “liberal”. Or “establishment”. Or something like that.
I think that the use of the term “liberal” has been exaggerated in this case. In fact, liberal is by definition anti-establishment (which makes the “liberal” belief in government so very–and disturbingly–entertaining).
I think CincoSolas and Mr. Cain were speaking past each other. It’s clear to me that much of what Cain was writing about involved Christ’s effect on the world after his death. It’s also clear that CincoSolas’ writing involves rather specifically Jesus’ immediate effect on Judea and its people.
I agree that Mr. Cain is stretching here, but cannot fully support CincoSolas’ positions either.
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“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
– - Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791
As always, a very well informed reply.
avgjo (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 6:52PM EDT (link)You state: He never condemned what others believed–just sin, evil and corruption. You have perhaps unknowingly demonstrated one of the hallmarks of Protestant liberalism: its externalization of sin into structures rather than persons. Certain remarks concerning snakes, broods of vipers, blind guides, an adulterous and wicked generation, and “you, being evil” come to mind for rebuttal.
That was the sticking point at the beginning for me. BUT you have given me food for thought. Thanks.
Ceterum autem censeo, Obamaecuram esse delendam.
It’s the morality, stupid.
Good reply nt
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 7:13PM EDT (link)“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Religious Conservatism vrs Constitutional Conservatism
bigiron Monday, December 20th at 8:09PM EDT (link)I’n NOT a Religious Conservative; I AM a Constitutional Conservative. There IS a difference. The future of our County lies in Constitutuional Conservatism not Religious Conservatism.
A belief in God or a Supreme power is a necessary requirement for our Constitution to be understood properly and therefore to work properly. The 1st Amendment underscores the need NOT to impose tyranny of religious standards in government but not to exclude religion from those in government.
Ron Paul is a "real" statesman.
bigiron Monday, December 20th at 8:11PM EDT (link)I cannot but wonder why more political play is not being given to Ron Paul; he is the closest thing to a real Statesman in the current political arena. He obviously has religious real convictions that transcend merely verbal epithets. He has been consistent in his behavior and has shown a willingness to go against the winds of popular political opinion and practice. I WILL support Ron Paul as a presidential candidate; I believe that he is the person that can best take the first steps to restore our Republic.
bigiron- You may be the only one in these parts
Scope (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 8:41PM EDT (link)to believe that Ron Paul has any chance, or intentions, of restoring our republic. As to real religious Paul convictions, is there any reason he, and his followers are anti-semites? That’s only for openers.
Hey, instead of smears
cej Monday, December 20th at 8:47PM EDT (link)How about a factual and even-handed discussion of real issues? Any of Ron Paul’s philosophy of freedom and peace that you care to take issue with? Do we need the federal gvt. waging more war and taking away more of our liberties?
Why not drop the knee-jerk thinking and replace it with deep thinking?
We do not have the time
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:40PM EDT (link)to try to educate you numb nuts who support our version of Bozo. Your head, along with the rest of Ron Paul supporters heads, are stuck so far up your own rectum, it is impossible to help you see the light about the nut you worship. Now bug off………..
And when your messiah speaks anything that shows deep thinking, we will discuss it in the same manner.
Threadjack
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 11:38PM EDT (link)and not a very good one at that. Quite frankly, no one here, except the other loonies, care that you support wacko Paul. Now go back to tin foil land and stop jacking threads!
Side Note, May Ron Paul swallow his own tongue this night so we can be rid of his voice!
Sadly, rather a tacky analogy Mr.Cain.nt
Bobcat51 Monday, December 20th at 9:04PM EDT (link)t
The left wing intent is to destroy the existing society and replace it with a society of its own design.
In this case, I think it might be better to follow
lineholder (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:51PM EDT (link)“judge not that ye be not judged”. I have no way of knowing for certain what was in Mr. Cain’s heart when he posted this diary. For all I know, his heart could have been touched by something specific in the life of Jesus Himself, and Mr. Cain could easily have meant this as a way to try to provide encouragement and inspiration to conservatives during times of trial.
Based on what I know at this point about Mr. Cain’s character, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant well.
To me, the life of Jesus is by far one of the most inspiring examples of what can be accomplished and achieved. He knew from the start what He was here to do. He had a clearly-defined sense of purpose and direction and let nothing distract him from that purpose. He was generous, tenderhearted, and caring, but he didn’t put up with any foolishness either. He knew how to use discretion as the greater part of valor. He had more determination in His little finger than most of us develop in our entire lifetimes.
But it was the faith that He frequently displayed that never fails to amaze me. Faith to move mountains. Faith to calm the seas. Faith to heal the sick. Faith to provide hope. Faith to die in our behalf.
He set up riches in a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one. He sowed the kind of seed to reap blessings for our sakes day in and day out, asking nothing in return from us.
Merry Christmas to us, and Happy Birthday, Lord Jesus. Thank you.
The personal as the political
aesthete (Diary) Monday, December 20th at 9:52PM EDT (link)Mr Cain, I’m a big fan, but you’re making the mistake that Marxists make by making the personal political: actions outside the context of government aren’t political, they’re expressions of individual will. Giving to the poor isn’t a “liberal” action, it is the action of a caring human being. Killing an intruder to protect your family isn’t a “conservative” action, it’s the right thing to do. Treating women without prejudice isn’t a “liberal” action, it’s a decent thing to do. Assigning political value to personal (or divine, in this instance) action cheapens the value of said actions, and waters down political philosophy. Likewise, Jesus’ actions cannot be assigned political motivations: it cheapens the divine nature of those actions.
“It is a popular delusion that the government wastes vast amounts of money through inefficiency and sloth. Enormous effort and elaborate planning are required to waste this much money.”
-P.J. O’Rourke
Merry Christmas back at ya, Hermanator!
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 21st at 1:16AM EDT (link)Your characterization of the Lord Jesus as the perfect conservative seems to have gotten some folks worked up. I will not join in the debate, since people are free to make their own way.
I will observe that the connection is not that Jesus read up on (or anticipated) Edmund Burke. Rather that conservatism was conceived as governance that ensures maximum freedom of the individual from both tyranny on one end, and anarchy on the other. It was designed for the most part by men who aspired to Godliness.
It is perhaps an obtuse term that many will deny, but conservatism was fashioned by love for people. THAT is the connection.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO